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January 07, 2020

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Life is short, surround yourself by positive people or those who accept and like you for what you are. I’d rather be alone every time, than with those who drag you down for their own benefit. I don’t think this means ignoring everyone who doesn’t kiss your ass - often the opposite, if they are right and honest, better to listen up. But I definitely wouldn’t be flip-flopping my personality to try fit in with family, culture, or the mainstream. The majority or popular vote (in many cultures) is often not only just plain wrong, but positively ignorant imo.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | January 26, 2020 at 04:51 AM

And I don’t “flip-flop” my personality I just make an extra effort to be diplomatic in certain settings.

Not to be rude, but I assume you don’t have family? No kids?

Don’t worry I’m not in pre freak out mode or anything. Just wondering how a guy like you navigates social settings. 😂

One for our English speaking atheists
Better G B s even
https://youtu.be/PEtFon4B4MI
777

Yes I’m still undecided. It’s a big commitment and I don’t like commitments - also if I say I’m going to do it, i don’t want to weasel out like the bitter exers on here who end up flinging dung at the poor guru for their own failures - or at least that’s how I see it.

But will need to change lifestyle totally if and before I apply and if they will accept me. I like booze, meat, chickies and cigarettes (the last one I can easily do with out). Plus I’m your age so no spring-chicken - hard to change but no excuse. I believe its meant to be for at least 1 year before you can apply so will start with that.

I just think you should lay off the sauce cos I got the feeling you might be using it to cope, rather than you actually like it. Besides if you already got the lifestyle sorted out - what’s the problem? Easy for you.

@Georgy

OMG!! Did you say that you’re my age so no spring chicken?!?! I’m not young but Jesus you really make me sound old!!

Why do like him so much?? Have you been guru shopping? What faith were you.

Seriously—WHY do you like him sooooo much and why are you always defending him like he’s your best and only friend in the whole wide world? What is so difficult about committing?? Especially for you. You’re already committed. All you have to do is quit the crap and get initiated.

You do realize that you’re the big fence-sitter flip-flipper right now, not me.

I can’t figure you out at all!

@Georgy, you are soooo committed to defending him but the ONLY reason you aren’t getting initiated is because you like drinking, meat and sleeping around??

You’re AFRAID to commit yet you are already committed... (or should be). What a nightmare for any poor girl that dates you.

And BTW they will accept anyone if you follow those things for a year. As long as you don’t tell them you have a severe mental illness. Pretty much everyone who applies gets accepted these days. Unless you’re a complete idiot and don’t give the correct answers on your app.

At least I had the courage to commit and willpower to give up all those things. I’m not a bitter exer. Not really... mainly I had one spiritual problem that he had no reference to... no understanding about and that’s what made me question. After that it was just a series of stupid events.

It’s just like getting married. There are no guarantees but you can’t just sit on the fence all your life. And even though people break away for a while it doesn’t mean it’s over. It just means they’re like wtf? Trying to figure stuff out.

What you have to remember is, you have this personal relationship with your guru. He plays this ridiculously important and all consuming role in your life. You do your meditation everyday and and do your simran and you’re always thinking about him but the truth is he doesn’t have a clue who you are. He doesn’t know most of the Satsangis names. That’s just the inner master. The outer master is kind of a spokesman. And when you realize that you start to wonder why you need a living master in the first place. For instance, he would probably recognize my face as that crazy lady who gets all pissed of every now and again but he doesn’t even know my name. So, I’m reality how can I possibly be mad at him. He knows me about as well as Tom Cruise knows me. I mean, the whole thing is ridiculous really.

Oh shit what did I say now? what it’s true 47. No spring-chickens.

No faith. Atheist/Agnostic. All v new to me. Grandpappy a Methodist and I went to a catholic school so I been to plenty of sermons, mostly given by religious mindless idiots. But I don’t think satsang is at all like that. I went to 2 days - the 1 day was slightly more religious than the other - but it’s still along way off a Christian-type sermon. Q&A where the head honcho got far more wisdom to impart than any Gdam idiot pastor or priest. Also a lot more light-hearted.

Why shouldn’t I be defending him.

What gives anyone the right to throw such slanderous accusations at anyone else - I mean you had him down as a fraudster, then an abuser, then a womanizer, then a woman-beater, then he made you so anxious you couldn’t have kids - those are terrible things to say about someone , let alone someone whose never done a Gdam thing except try to help.

I mean old brother Spence here even says the guru did fantastic things for his son. I’d simply be ashamed of myself if anyone had to help my son and I tried to besmirch his reputation, even if the guru was pol pot which he clearly is not.

So everytime I try understand where all this is coming from - I don’t get one decent proper reason from any of you. Maybe I’m wierd but if a stranger shows me kindness I don’t try trash that person.
You say you don’t understand me - I don’t understand most of you.

Ps: if you gonna go psitzho, show me a girly butterfly 🦋 or something and then I’ll know to stop, but that’s the truth as I see it.

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"Yes I’m still undecided. It’s a big commitment and I don’t like commitments - also if I say I’m going to do it, i don’t want to weasel out like the bitter exers on here who end up flinging dung at the poor guru for their own failures - or at least that’s how I see it."

They are better off by far than you. They knew the crushing pain of commitment and loss. The scars of giving it everything, their entire heart and effort, to get rejection and disappointment And they are stronger, so much stronger because of it.

It is better to run and fall than stand still in fear of falling.

Every step is a controlled fall, Georgy.

And they only blame the Guru. You, on the other hand, blame a lot of people you've never met.

If you were to take Initiation, assuming the Master would have you, you might end up like the exers, blaming the Master. But you would no longer be blaming quite so many other people. And that's progress!

@George
>>So every time I try understand where all this is coming from - I don’t get one decent proper reason from any of you.<<

If something happens to a person that causes negative reactions, the once sworn friends will run away. Most people remember his uncle. Everything related to his uncle was more or less attractive …. charismatic, ….. also the people in the west that started out with this path. It was easy to believe him to be a PLM.

Then came the nephew and with him the change … go and see the "last emperor. Puyi "… than you will understand. No longer Mandarins in fancy clothes, not longer traditions etc everything replaced by faceless party men in green.

Some cannot stand that change and long for the good old days and instead of accepting and adapting they are putting the blame on him.

Find out what he publicly said in the first days, weeks etc than you will understand more of the man and his [outer] ambitions … he promised to bring confusion ….and … that is what he did.

Try to find from Rumi, Poet and mystic, by R.A. Nicholson saying XXI, page 55, "nothing venture nothing win"

Georgy,

I’m going to shoot straight with you—I don’t think Sant Mat is for you. You can’t know someone from 2 days of Q&A. And if you’ve felt this much hesitation over committing or going to Satsang or doing anything else related to Sant Mat then I think that’s your gut/instinct/subconscious trying to send you a very strong message. Let me save you a lot of time and pain and just say, put it behind you. The fact that you’ve only seen him twice and have based all that you believe about him on that is what I find very disconcerting.

No offense—I just know you appreciate candor... you need to recognize that you haven’t had any real experience with him so you don’t really know him. What you think you know about him is very superficial.

You’re not going to be happy until I say to you that GSD was always so kind and thoughtful and was right about everything. In your mind that is the absolute truth and it doesn’t matter what or anyone else here shares. Maybe you’re just desperately looking for a savior. I don’t know. I really do hope you find what you’re looking for.

If you actually knew him and were one of his close friends or inner circle, then I might understand why you have such strong opinions.

But none of this makes any sense. And again, I’m not trying to offend. I just feel sad for people like you who get sucked into something without much experience or knowledge about it. You can be easily brainwashed.

I’m sorry 😐

But we’re still friends. 🙃

I’m not going all butterfly on you. Just makes me sad, that’s all.

"They are better off by far than you. They knew the crushing pain of commitment and loss. The scars of giving it everything, their entire heart and effort, to get rejection and disappointment And they are stronger, so much stronger because of it"

Not always stronger Spenxe, some go into depression and some even may contemplate suicide and yes I have known such cases. Sorry dont agree with you. You should know this working in a hospital

Let Georgy be who he is instead of preaching to him. He will grow to be a greater man than you and I.

@georgy

You remind me of Ilanovitch and Jen from Austin and Whodunit and Guru’s/Dera’s/Sevadar’s Inc. It’s like you’re part of RSSB’s online “save face” campaign.

RSSB encourages people to search online for information in support of and against GSD before becoming an initiate. They put that in one of their latest publications which you can read at RSSB.org. Of course, naturally, since Brian’s site gets a lot of visitors they also put some effort into countering a lot of what is said by Brian and commenters here. I guess that’s a new Seva Satsangis can do?? 😂

They’re like Fox News trolling Bill Maher.

Hi Arjuna
You wrote
"Let Georgy be who he is instead of preaching to him. He will grow to be a greater man than you and I."

But Arjuna, you yourself wrote
"Not always stronger Spenxe, some go into depression and some even may contemplate suicide and yes I have known such cases."

Do you think it is wise, helpful or loving to blame and shame those?

Or to help them find their own strength within, the very thing they were always looking for?

I have worked in hospitals for decades, both medical and psychiatric. And the chief lesson is don't burden someone further with your disease when they are already injured.

But the real question is, who is Georgy?

Georgy Porgy,

Some of the benefits of becoming a satsangi is that feeling of belonging to a group and like you say you enjoyed the satsang you went to and mostly satsangi friends can be good company (even Sonia is married to one lol). My advice is give it a try and ask for initiation. You will have to be a vegetarian, no alcohol or mind altering drugs and have strong morals so if thats easy for you to do, I think you should go to satsang and find out about initiation.

I met my husband at satsang so maybe you will find someone nice as well. I'm happy I still follow the principles and I think we should not have expectations that the guru will save us but living a good life style really does help.

OK, I’ve thought about this and here’s why I’m so perplexed.

Georgy sees GSD at a two day weekend. Didn’t even get up to ask a question. He’s not a satsangi, not ready to give of meat or liquor or girls. And he’s somewhere in between atheism and agnosticism. However, after that one weekend, he doesn’t decide to get initiated, instead he decides to come here and tell us repeatedly over and over again that GSD is such a nice guy and that he feels sorry for the guru. As far as I can tell he’s been doing this for almost a year now.

How does any of this make any sense. It’s like me going to a Scientology thingy (I have no idea what kind of events they put on) and not deciding to become a Scientologist but criticize everyone who expresses their doubts about it.

Is this weird or what??

🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋🦋

"But if a seeker is genuine, we must try to give him all sorts if help. Then we should not hesitate. We shouldn't withhold anything."
Maharaj Charan Singh

We are all meant to help each other. In what way?
To find the power, the love, the beauty within each of us. Not the beauty of someone else, not the power of the Master. But those things within you.

Georgy Porgy,

Please apply for initiation from RSSB. They are always in need of more hypocritical sycophants with bad character. Since you already seem to think you know everything, including the invariably pure intentions of godmen you've never met and the inferior nature of all non-RSSB religions, you'll face no challenges or problems with a post-initiation learning curve.

You've already made it to the top of RSSB, buddy. All that's missing is going to a random place where a guy reads the 5 mystical words to you from a 3 ring binder. After that you're not only special and arrogant, but also your soul is saved.

Get ready for sach khand you amazingly unique and chosen soul. Everyone there's been waiting for you for a billion years!

Oooops... just went all butterfly...

Oh well. Let’s take a breather shall we.

"You will have to be a vegetarian, no alcohol or mind altering drugs and have strong morals so if thats easy for you to do"

You only have to tell people you're doing those things, Jen. It's not necessary to actually follow the rules.

"Is this weird or what??"

Yes, Sonia, it is weird, and it was obvious after the first time I saw Georgy's posts that he was either a satsangi, a troll, or extremely confused. I think he's a satsangi troll, personally.

Whatever the ideology or topic, you'll find these types online defending their cause while pretending to have no dog in the fight. I don't know why they think it's effective, because it's not. Were this a less polite corner of the internet, Georgy would be berated constantly, and someone would cut and paste many of his fawning comments together to show how biased and unreasonably positive his comments are about the guru are.

It seems to me that there's nothing real about anything Georgy says. It's only slightly more complex than the comments we see so often that say "my guru is do nothing wrong he only help my all family don't spread the rumor on my baba"

I agree with Jen, though. Assuming Georgy isn't already writing his comments from Dera or the back row of a satsang, he should take initiation. It'll be the best thing that ever happened to his hungry ego, and plus, he might meet a hot chick to eat vegan sausages and drink alcohol-free sparkling juice with. And that's what life's all about, innit?

Spence

"Do you think it is wise, helpful or loving to blame and shame those?"

No I dont think its wise but not everyone is that level.

Then why are you after GSDs downfall? A man you do not know. Yes you have pre conditioned perceptions what a saint should be and do. But these perceptions are not the truth. They are generated by the karma. And the load is heavy now. As it is for me.

I'm afraid if you and I were to discover truth we would not be an atheists website. We would be lost in live and have no interest in worldly debates. The Devils hands have been busy Spence.

@Jen - your advice to Georgy was at Zen level maturity. You might be really close to enlightenment. 😀

@Jesse - your comments made me laugh to the point that I felt sane again.

@Spence - what you said pretty much sums it up: “ It is better to run and fall than stand still in fear of falling.”

@Arjuna - I really think you take the “fear of God” thing way too far. God or “Love” is literally the opposite of fear. It is impossible to be afraid of God. You shouldn’t feel that way at all. “Sins” are errors and are not part of the now. Yesterday is gone along with all of your past lives. You’re not “paying for your sins” you’re beating yourself up and that’s what’s causing you so much pain. There is absolutely no such thing as an unforgivable sin.

@Um - he certainly has changed things. You can see GSD’s personality in every nook and cranny of the Dera and RSSB organization. RSSB is reflects GSD’s personality completely. But what is the personality? Isn’t it part of the ego?

@Georgy - I think deep down you have a good heart. I just wish you had been more honest about who you are. Or at the very least come up with a better story.

The bottom line is I don’t believe in the teachings of RSSB. The uncomfortable interactions I had with the guru are what prompted me to examine the teachings more closely. For that I should be grateful.

@Sonia
>>@Um - he certainly has changed things. You can see GSD’s personality in every nook and cranny of the Dera and RSSB organization. RSSB is reflects GSD’s personality completely. But what is the personality? Isn’t it part of the ego?<<

Personally I feel that it has nothing to do with him as a person. The so called time spirit has changed and that is what one sees reflected every where around also there.

All famous characters in the world could never have surfaced history on their own…. they were born from the socio- cultural circumstances and could never have reached their positions in other frames of time.

If you ask around somebody of the old regime can tell you that his uncle for warned people that his successor would be more strict and that his body was not fit enough to take the burden of the coming changes.

You can even wonder if his uncle would attract these days as much people as he did in his own time.

Spirituality, whatever it is, of these days is completely different from the 80ies and so are the seekers. In our big cities we would have a least one bookshop solely with so called spiritual books and the general book stores had always a great selection of writers as well …. they are all gone. No more macro biotic cosy restaurants etc etc etc. no more de-programmers, no more daily stuff on sects on TV … it is all OUT.

Soon children will say,… what is a church, god, guru

I came to this conclusion because in every centre the same type of changes occurred ...WITHOUT .. having received orders in that direction.

Globalisation has caused an cultural turmoil and the waters have by long not calmed down and become clear again. … and I cannot say I enjoyed the changes or was able to cope with them, so I withdrew from the market place…. not knowing what the change is all about and having no idea of the direction it will take.

Maybe the dera is a stronghold in a worldwide war … who knows.

@Um

That’s an interesting perspective.

Aside from the Doomsday Clock (which is extremely disconcerting) I see evolution in the spirit of people. Perhaps I live in a bubble... or maybe it’s perspective. I don’t know. But where I live the churches and schools and city council are so focused on creating programs to help people address and overcome issues in every area of their life as well as help them learn new skills and improve their quality of life. We’re sort of a self-help Mecca but I see this not just in my community, I see this in many places outside my community. I see it globally as well. Even technology has profoundly positive benefits if one uses it properly. I believe it’s what you focus on that shapes your perspective.

Maybe the world is just 50/50 (good and bad). Always has been always will be.

But from my perspective the only real and potentially irreversible change is the destruction of our planet. Perhaps if we focused more on the health of our planet we’d see a huge improvement in the human spirit. We’d truly become better people. Less greedy, less lazy, more content. More peaceful.

About initiation: "After that you're not only special and arrogant, but also your soul is saved."

There you go, Jesse's got it all worked out, typical satsangi behaviour, gotta laugh, if only we can enjoy our specialness in peace...
...................

Um says: "Maybe the dera is a stronghold in a worldwide war … who knows."

I have thought that for some time now, about this expansion happening at the Dera, this will be where the people flock to if there is some kind of war happening nearby.

"Why shouldn’t I be defending him.

What gives anyone the right to throw such slanderous accusations at anyone else - I mean you had him down as a fraudster, then an abuser, then a womanizer, then a woman-beater, then he made you so anxious you couldn’t have kids - those are terrible things to say about someone , let alone someone whose never done a Gdam thing except try to help.

I mean old brother Spence here even says the guru did fantastic things for his son. I’d simply be ashamed of myself if anyone had to help my son and I tried to besmirch his reputation, even if the guru was pol pot which he clearly is not.

So everytime I try understand where all this is coming from - I don’t get one decent proper reason from any of you. Maybe I’m wierd but if a stranger shows me kindness I don’t try trash that person.
You say you don’t understand me - I don’t understand most of you.

Ps: if you gonna go psitzho, show me a girly butterfly 🦋 or something and then I’ll know to stop, but that’s the truth as I see it."

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | January 26, 2020 at 12:35 PM

What up bro?

I could not resist to comment about RSSB initiation. It's true Gurinder Singh's teacher was very different in how he taught, namely ...the respected Charan Singh.

So I figured I'd bring up the teachings from someone totally unrelated on the subject of initiation. There was another teacher who was a peer with Charan Singh under the tutelage of respected Sawan Singh the teacher of them both. His name was Jagat Singh (Also known as 'The Perfect Disciple').

Jagat held the 'gaddi' or Head of Spiritual Teachings at RSSB before Charan Singh. In Jagat's time, teachings on obtaining initiation were even more serious than you may expect today.

To my recollection his instructions for seekers for initiation were;

"This path is the Path of the Saints. Most all saints recorded in history walked this narrow road. One must thoroughly make up one's mind in deciding whether or not to follow the straight and narrow.

This path is not for the faint-hearted but for those who see the seriousness of doing right in life and of clear thinking, and also the limited time during human life for accomplishing such a task.

Sant Mat (The Path of the Saints), teaches two fundamentals; one is the goal, for which is the knowledge of self origin and just why God gave us life. The other is the road which will lead one to this goal; (Santon Ki Shiksha) the Science of Surat Shabd Yoga (meditation on the Shabda Dhun).

You are correct, this IS one hell of commitment. You must learn to wean yourself not only off meat, but fish, fowl, eggs, & anything containing those adopting a strict vegetarian diet thereafter where only things causing the least amount of killing will be taken for your consumption. This was explained because in order to come closer to the great Shabda on must lead a life on the basis of purifying oneself.

Hence, the one year requirement (now) on foods along with drugs (including marijuana), alcoholic drinks, and (now) tobacco. These parts may require some weaning off as well, or perhaps at first just learning moderation of, before this part of the requirements can be completely fulfilled.

For some, just these two requirements alone could take one several years to do -but not impossible. Again, this path is not for the weak nor faint-hearted.

Third, Jagat Singh taught that during the time accustoming ourselves to the diet, or substance free lifestyle, we should also review books on the moral requisites to further be decided on whether to take on this journey of a lifetime. It was suggested to read as much RSSB literature as needed before even deciding to venture for initiation, or to tread such a path.

So you are highly correct to say that this path requires such commitment. For I know of NO satsangi who can claim he has completely gained the Goal. Thus, the extreme need for a Teacher.

Lastly, since the arrival of the World Wide Web, many sites have posted versions of what is claimed to be taught at the RSSB initiation. Beware, I can guarantee these only possess what is taught in part. And regardless, the meditation technique is much much harder to even be grasped without the deep commitment you've previously shared.

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | January 27, 2020 at 02:59 PM

No CBD oil either—not any amount in any form. They gave me a three page handout on that yesterday. Apparently they have to mention that at the end of each Satsang now. The approach is largely that CBD could have long term health consequences and side effects that have not yet been determined. And that it could interfere with other prescription medications.

Hi Arjuna
You wrote
"I'm afraid if you and I were to discover truth we would not be an atheists website. We would be lost in live and have no interest in worldly debates. The Devils hands have been busy Spence."

We're here for one reason, Arjuna, and that is to preach acceptance, tolerance and love.

Then you may be as you are. We have no real differences at all.

But if you must blame or accuse, that's alright. You'll wear it out one day.

Hi Georgy
You write
"So everytime I try understand where all this is coming from - I don’t get one decent proper reason from any of you."

It's because you have never met a real Saint. In their presence you would never wish to judge anyone. And then, when judging ends, understanding can begin.

Sonia wrote
Maybe the world is just 50/50 (good and bad). Always has been always will be.

No, no, no

Each particle will return in the Giver

Fast or Slow, a second or 99 big bangs
Sant Mat is just accelerating for those wanting HIS LOVE faster

Nothing is not God

777

The true path to the Lord has no rules or regulations, no vows to take to any human being, no promises needed, no promises given. These are business contracts. A good friend never asks you to sign your friendship to them in a contract. This is a sure sign of a photocopy of something real, this business relationship, but not the real thing.

Hi Karim
You write
"So you are highly correct to say that this path requires such commitment. For I know of NO satsangi who can claim he has completely gained the Goal. Thus, the extreme need for a Teacher."

If there are none, the teacher is useless.

Imagine a university where no one ever graduated. Where you, an active attending student, have never seen the graduating class, never met a graduate student, never were proctored by an assistant professor who themselves had graduated with honors.

That can only happen in a fake school, a school that doesn't actually teach anything useful. If you cannot master the subject, and have never met others who have, you aren't in a real school. The teacher isn't a real teacher.

The students of a true Saint come in and go out as they please. Their teacher is teaching their students to master their subject. And this is the qualification for their role as a teacher. That they graduate students successfully and often who have demonstrably mastered their pursuit.

But in that school there are no titles, no walls, no rules, no fees. The teacher is your friend, a True Saint.

No CBD oil either—not any amount in any form.

Posted by: Sonia | January 27, 2020 at 04:34 PM

The last Satsang my master Baba Ji gave in Petaluma, CA someone brought up marijuana use as a medicine during a Question & Answer session.

I can't recall exactly if it was for cancer use, or other. But Baba Ji was clear on avoiding any substances that were originally coined as mind altering by previous teachers.

In the RSSB literature, can be found numerous reasons they're to be avoided.

I have thought that for some time now, about this expansion happening at the Dera, this will be where the people flock to if there is some kind of war happening nearby.
Posted by: Jen | January 27, 2020 at 02:18 PM

Didn’t Charan take in refugees during one of the uprisings? I can’t remember the details. Not sure if I read about it or if someone told me.

“So I figured I'd bring up the teachings from someone totally unrelated on the subject of initiation. There was another teacher who was a peer with Charan Singh under the tutelage of respected Sawan Singh the teacher of them both. His name was Jagat Singh (Also known as 'The Perfect Disciple').”

Jagat Singh initiated some 250,000 disciples during his 3 years as Master. I imagine that GSD initiates at least that many per year. Perhaps more—a lot more. Not sure what the numbers are. But it’s not nearly as difficult to get initiated these days.

When Jagat wasn’t initiating he was in his room meditating. He subsisted on chapatis (I think that’s what killed him).

So, when Charan took over, the RSSB administration was out of control and Charan had to take control. He put people in their places pretty quickly and turned things around—he got things running smoothly once again.

Gurinder did something similar at the changing of the guard. I hope the next guru does the same thing. I hope they paint rainbows on all the buildings. People start drum circles in the park and everyone is wearing flowers in their hair. They could hang those Tibetan prayer flags, and stained glass always has a soothing effect. Perhaps they could find a place for stained glass windows.

A colorful Dera would be fun.

Georgy,

You don’t have to worry about whether or not you’d be accepted. That’s the one good thing about Gurinder. He doesn’t look at the applications. You just have to answer the questions correctly (and everyone knows what the right answers are). It’s not like they do a background check on you or check your medical records. And they don’t do a drug test either. You’d have to write something like “fuck you” on your application in order to actually get rejected.

It’s harder to become Catholic than to get initiated these days.

So, don’t sweat it.

"I hope they paint rainbows on all the buildings. People start drum circles in the park and everyone is wearing flowers in their hair. They could hang those Tibetan prayer flags, and stained glass always has a soothing effect."

That does sound like fun Sonia. Instead of sitting meditation, which I find so boring, it would be wonderful to lift our spirits with dancing and music and laughter. Oh, I do miss the flower power and fun of the New Age movement. Where is the love and joy and happiness in Satsang, instead of the stifling pretence of trying to be peaceful and perfect.

Gurinder did something similar at the changing of the guard. I hope the next guru does the same thing. I hope they paint rainbows on all the buildings. People start drum circles in the park and everyone is wearing flowers in their hair. They could hang those Tibetan prayer flags, and stained glass always has a soothing effect. Perhaps they could find a place for stained glass windows.

A colorful Dera would be fun.

Posted by: Sonia | January 27, 2020 at 06:55 PM

Baba Ji can easily be reached by mail correspondence. Just as Maharaj Ji attended to every letter, every question, and each suggestion, so does he.

When you make your home your Dera, and don't need a crowd of other people to behave in a loving way for you to be inspired to feel love, then you have the best Dera of all.

If your friends are loving, and you feel loved in their presence, and turning within you bathe in love in the presence of Love, you have your Dera.

You can build peace in your self, your own home, your own community without ever having to mention God, or Spirit or any teacher. There is nothing to debate among different belief systems. Those are mental constructions.

But if you need someone else to build that for you, not realizing it's already there inside you, where you live, then you must confront ego and politics, and organization building. Because other folks have their own ideas. So you can also look at the Deras of these large organizations to see how organizations are the death of spirituality. No True Saint wastes their time building them.

They have much more important work to do.


Dera is not bricks and morter. And there isn't one single square millimeter of land in this earth worth fighting over.

The place of real action, peace and harmony is within, not out here. This physical world is derivative and in its limited portions, divisive.

But the inner worlds are infinite, this is where your true home is and in fact where you actually spend all your time, but watching the TV show that is this physical reality.

So why not turn off the TV for a while and enjoy where you really are? It's your home. Might as well pay some attention to it, make friends of your neighbors there, and enjoy it. You have a number of pathways there to some truly stunning places.


Sonia I’m sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about. I have applied for initiation in the last 5 years twice and have been told to wait both times. And I have 2 friends who have as well. We have followed all the requirements but for other reasons (which I am not going to discuss here) have been rejected. I don’t think you really know what you write on this blog and you are quite negative. Educate yourself and lighten up.

Baba Ji can easily be reached by mail correspondence. Just as Maharaj Ji attended to every letter, every question, and each suggestion, so does he.

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | January 27, 2020 at 08:23 PM

Thanks, Karim.

I’ll send off a quick letter with suggestions for the Dera. I mean, I know not everything is about me but maybe he’s actually looking for some creative suggestions (inset I’m an idiot face emoji here).

Intellectually I know I’m not the center of the universe. Emotionally I’m not there yet. But it’s pretty cool he’s got a suggestion box. 🙃

What I mean is, I realize I come across to a lot of people as being full of myself. Personally, I think my problem is I’m overly expressive and forget that other people aren’t as interested in my opinions. HOWEVER, I’m also interested in other people’s opinions and stories and experiences as much as... even more than my own. But I’ve noticed most people seem to be more comfortable discussing their ideas than personal stuff. And that’s cool too. Probably a lot more mature.

@ So you can also look at the Deras of these large organizations to see
@ how organizations are the death of spirituality. No True Saint wastes
@ their time building them.

I disagree. It's not the size of the organization. A true teacher
may work alone or with multitudes. With big organizations. Or
smalI. Ishwar Puri held a position in the Indian civil service with
hundreds working for him. The outer busyness is child's play
when the attention is firmly anchored inside.

Spiritual organizations can remain miniature or grow large.
Attention can become scattered in either case. Or not.
The power of disciplined attention is limitless.

So far in my research I have not found a single religious or spiritual or philosophical organization that doesn’t have many opponents with loads of criticism.

I find this disheartening. How is one ever to find the “truth”? How is one ever to find the right path. It seems as if nothing can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

~Sonia

Have there ever been any saints or spiritual teachers in relative modern history (like the last 100 years) who seemed truly at peace in their non meditative states?

The more you research and read on the internet the harder it gets to believe in anything.

@ Lost soul

The truth doesn't exist as far as motivation is concerned.

There is not such a thing as the most tasty apple pie in the world.
Replace the word "apple pie" by whatever you like.

When one gets the opportunity to discuss the difference between this and that path, with an teacher of such an path, invariable they will tell you that they can instruct you in whatever they are doing, and that they know nothing about other paths.

So the answer to this type of dillema's lies not in the streets where the sun shines and there is more light but INSIDE, not in finding whether this or that teacher and his teaching is correct, but in finding out what it is that you want to invest your life in.

There are not "the best ever" wives, husbands, parents, jobs etc e etc.

Sonia if there is no punishment . Why are we still here. I think we are all in a lot of trouble. I trust my gut after all I have seen.

Spencer wrote Georgy wouodnt judge as he has not seen a real saint. Nor have you Spencer loool. Georgy is learning you think you are the master . That's the difference. In fact Georgy is way ahead of you already my friend .

Not that I have before you start on me.

Karim - Yep that’s the way I understand it , exactly as you describe - I can’t put it any better than you have. Maybe for some who are more aligned to the lifestyle it’s easier - but for me it’s 180 degree shift. It would be like climbing Everest, maybe harder but the benefits are potential huge. In all honesty, I reckon I’ve probably drowned more alcohol in 1 night than Sonia’s entire ‘alcholic’ binge episode combined - still best to keep her on her toes and boxing-fit in case she hits the sauce again - not good.

Jen - it’s not really about a support group or meeting others for me, but I can see how that might appeal to others. I’m not really new-age so I probably wouldn’t really fit into the hippy thing, but I don’t really begrudge those who like it. Far as I can tell the world would be a better place with more genuine hippies in it - I’m just not one. From RS, I’d be looking to get personal inner spiritual insights, rather than peace of mind, social transformations or group parties or social gatherings.

Arjuna - coming from you v much appreciated , but don’t worry about defending me. Let’s see just how saintly they are - let them let it out.


Hi Arjuna,

I meant in the sense that outside of time there is no past or future. We are all residing in Time and meditation is what takes us out of that more and more as we practice. Call it what you want—Surat Shabd Yoga or Living in the Now.

Time is an illusion but feels very real to us. The end of time has already happened but we’re still living in “the illusion of the past” so to speak.

I guess my point is, there’s no guilt as long as you’re doing your meditation. Do what you can each day and know that you are doing your best. Then there’s no need to regret anything you’ve said or done in the past or even worry about what you may or may not have done in past lives.

In reality, the Master is all about forgiveness (I think he tries to keep this a secret for some reason). That’s what meditation and Darshan are all about. You’ve read all they say about Darshan.

So, if you are happy to stick with Sant Mat then just remember those two things and don’t let guilt or fear take control of your life there’s no need.

I think there must be many paths that lead to the One. And if you feel more comfortable with Sant Mat, you can look at it that way so that you are freed from any “self loathing”. Besides, not living yourself is like not loving God. It’s kind of ridiculous when you think about it. 🙂

I just want you to be happy and not be so hard on yourself. Life is short... doesn’t always feel that way but it is.

GSD doesn’t talk about forgiveness (well he doesn’t use the word) but the truth is initiation is all about wiping away past karmas and Darshan... well they say that can clear a multitude of sins.

Anyway, I’m taking a rare objective moment to defend Sant Mat because I think it resonates with you despite your occasional issues on the path. And it’s important to have something... you’re a good person.

On a side note: I still thing there’s a bit of a class/caste system at the Dera. And I don’t like it. Just sayin...

Wow, Georgy, is this how you make all your decisions? I’d hate to see the hell you’d put a realtor through in trying to buy a home.

What’s the WORST that can happen to you if you get initiated?

There are not "the best ever" wives, husbands, parents, jobs etc e etc.

I was blessed with the three best Masters of the Universe
Seth Shiv Dayal, Sawan Singh and Charan Singh

777

Sonia you seem to have skipped the message I wrote for you. Please go back and read it.

I had to cancel my trip to Dera because of my health. And then I was thinking after I wrote that comment to Arjuna and after my husband’s experience that maybe I should try to go just for Darshan... see if it fixes things. Because there doesn’t seem to be any amount of words that can make sense of all that’s happened. I don’t know... maybe I’ll just write a letter but the chances of it actually getting to him are slim to none. However, occasionally he does read them.

@Georgy
Maybe you should write him a letter.

@777
What about Jaimal Singh?

Initiated by these 3 Param Sant Sat Gurus!
First time I was a nasty killer which U can read in my comments
This Path is Giantly Immense
Let me repeat that Grinder is of the same level
and HE still smiles

777

Hi Shalini,

Did you meet all the requirements?

Age?
Work?
Mental Health—medicines?

If don’t meet the requirements then obviously you won’t get accepted... just curious what reason they gave. The requirements are different for westerners than Indians. Not sure why exactly, but either way they list out the requirements quite specifically.

My brother in law was rejected 4 times because he kept putting on his application that he hadn’t quit drinking for a year. He was honest. Finally he quit drinking long enough to meet the requirement.

Sorry you think I’m negative. There are no rules that I have to be all roses and rainbows. Just expressing how I feel. I’m quite surprised you’re even reading this blog. It’s not the place to go if you want to hear nothing but praises about your path.

Shakini,

My point was that GSD doesn’t look at the applications. He gives a set of requirements to a group whose job it is to see if you meet that specific requirements. But they aren’t secret requirements. You know exactly what they are before you apply and you know whether you meet them or not.

However, if you did meet the requirements stated for whichever category you fall under and you still got rejected, well then that might be discrimination. I don’t know. I’m not familiar with your situation.

I know it’s very important to RSSB that you have a job and are self supporting. You have to be the age required for your group and have followed a vegetarian diet plus no drugs or alcohol for 1 year.

They may make it harder for Indians to get initiated than westerners. Sorry... it does seem that way. I hope everything works out for you. Or you could try a different master. 🤷‍♀️

Financial stability before getting initiated is a big thing and I think that’s why they raised the age requirement for Indians (24 yo I think). They want you to have time to get through college, get a job and or get married before taking on the responsibility of meditating. The reasoning is it will make it easier for you to find time to commit to meditating. GSD has always expressed his concern that Indian initiated have higher education and good jobs... because he believes that will make your life easier. That’s his perspective. It might not be the perspective of other Masters but if you want to join RSSB then those are considered as important as being vegetarian, abstaining from drugs and alcohol and living a moral life.

Personally, I don’t agree but nobody asked me. :)

And the reason I say I don’t agree is because by the time you finish college and get married then you’re ready to have kids. And all of my friends who are initiated say that when their kids were young they didn’t meditate—their just simply wasn’t any time. It would be easier to find time to meditate while your single and working or in school than when you have kids. 😂

RSSB makes everything easier for westerners. Everything. From the way we are treated at the Dera and the kind of accommodations we get to how close we get to sit to BabaJi. Westerners even get a special meeting with Babaji 5 nights a week at the Dera that Indians and NRIs aren’t invited to. Our requirements for getting initiated are easier. A good friend of mine has lived in the United States longer than I have but since she was born in India and I’m a white American, she can’t even travel with me to Beas. We get special treatment. And it’s wrong. It’s really wrong. I don’t agree with it at all and it upsets me very much. But I guess they assume Americans and Westerners donate more money which sadly is probably true. I’m sorry, it’s not fair. I know it isn’t.

I think if you want to improve the lot of the poorer uneducated villagers that come to the Dera, then you should treat them like everyone else. Show them they are equal to NRIs and Westerners and everyone else.

I don’t understand why everyone visiting the Dera can’t stay in the same type of accommodations. There’s no reason why Westerners can’t sleep in Serai accommodations. It’s what the average American or Westerner expects from a spiritual journey to India. Eat, Pray, Love. Just like that.

It would also work to benefit the Westerners and NRIs—throw in some humility with their spirituality. I think everyone would be happier. Besides, for Westerners, camping is exotic. LOL

But, hey, if you’re Sonia Ghandi they’ll build you a damn helipad. Or if you’re any sort of Royal you might get your own home at the Dera. And why do you think that is? Is the class/caste system so deeply ingrained in Indian culture that even the gurus can’t see how absurd this special treatment is??

Sorry, but this is a very sensitive subject for me so I’m on a roll.

Do you think I put wealthy guests in a different room than my guests who don’t have any money? We have a one size fits all guest room. And we make it just as nice for whoever is staying with us.

You’re checking into a spiritual colony, not the Hyatt. How can you say that everyone is the same in God’s eyes when you go out of your way to make some feel more special than others?

Hi Arjuna
You wrote
"Spencer wrote Georgy wouodnt judge as he has not seen a real saint. Nor have you Spencer loool. Georgy is learning you think you are the master . That's the difference. In fact Georgy is way ahead of you already my friend .

" Not that I have before you start on me."

You stated earlier you think we are all in trouble, but that debt grows when you irritate and burden others already in pain. No Saint encourages that. It's unnecessary. You are adding to your own burden.

The friends of a true Saint have their sanctuary. They are in no trouble whatsoever. They came in from the cold long ago.

Door is there for you and Georgy also. It was open, so why should you both close it?

When you attack anyone for sharing their sincere views, that's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick.

You can lighten your load substantially by not targeting others.

What happens between Satsangis and their Master is between them. Even if they make it a public argument, don't step in the middle of it. Master has it under control and doesn't like to see anyone making matters worse. Especially in his name.

Your and Georgy's loving acceptance of Sonia, me and anyone else who irritates you just because they are who they are, is an assignment coming right from Gurinder for your own good.

Don't believe me, but do make sure you are really defending Sant Mat and not misguidedly burdening it.

Just saying...

Note, Arjuna, this doesn't mean you must be silent. If you think a belief is imperfect, share why and your own version of truth.

But don't attack the individual. Try finding out what you disagree with in their statement and offer your own perspective. So argue what you think is superior logic, reason or belief, and give reasons why.

But try to avoid making personal attacks. Actually they are meaningless.

Making a person wrong is unkind. You might feel good but at their expense. And then actually it is really at your expense.

But articulating your belief about the world, or God, or Atheism, etc, that can enlighten. That isn't personal. It is simply discussing philosophy and belief.

"The more you research and read on the internet the harder it gets to believe in anything. "

Don't worry, Sonia. Google, the ADL, every major news organization in America, and whoever writes Greta Thunberg's speeches are all working together to make sure you don't continue to have access to information and that all the proper "facts" and opinions are provided to you.

You won't have to worry about believing much longer. You'll be given all you need to know.

@ Sonia
>>I don’t understand why everyone visiting the Dera can’t stay in the same type of accommodations<<

This is the expression of an sentiment heard time and again for decades, put before the sitting guru's and answered.

The main reason, as i do remember is, that people should be given the possibility to live in Dera, during the short visit, as they are used to at their homes so that they are nor distracted from their main purpose of the visit.

From that point of view ALL are treated equal.

and …. some Indians might even laugh at us westerners, not able to sleep on the floor and content with little…. in need of so much comfort and still unhappy.

and …. some Indians might even laugh at us westerners, not able to sleep on the floor and content with little…. in need of so much comfort and still unhappy.

Posted by: Um | January 29, 2020 at 03:37 AM

I’m happiest when I go camping. All of the sudden every little thing is a big deal. And all the fresh air. ❤️ 🏕 But I can sleep on the ground either—I prefer an army grade cot. :)

Karim - Yep that’s the way I understand it , exactly as you describe - I can’t put it any better than you have. Maybe for some who are more aligned to the lifestyle it’s easier - but for me it’s 180 degree shift. It would be like climbing Everest, maybe harder but the benefits are potential huge. In all honesty, I reckon I’ve probably drowned more alcohol in 1 night than Sonia’s entire ‘alcholic’ binge episode combined - still best to keep her on her toes and boxing-fit in case she hits the sauce again - not good.

Posted by: Georgy Porgy | January 28, 2020 at 11:01 AM

Tik tik tik toc... take your time.

I gave up drinking permanently. Feels like I have to keep repeating myself to you. Although RSSB is so picky they probably wouldn’t approve of some of the prescription medications I take either but that’s not my problem.

Do take your time, though. This is a very serious decision. You don’t want to wind up on this blog complaining about your guru or the path 13 years from now.

I guess that’s your whole point being here—because you don’t want to end up like us? 🧐? 🤔

Trying to teach us a lesson???

should I? shouldn’t I? yes, no, maybe?

You are 100% maybe. That’s it! You’re a big Maybe! 😄

Well, I was never “maybe” so I can’t really help you.

You know what, Georgy, you can be 100% committed for a long time through thick and thin. It was never easy but had good moments. Most of all I had hope and I believed. There were questions and things would come up that bothered me. Quite honestly a lot of shit happened but I never seriously considered quitting until I stood up and asked that one question at Q&A last time I was there in December. After all the shit I was willing to work through on the path and had continued to work through, that one tiny single moment changed everything. it was like driving down a road, glancing away to grab your phone and then driving head on into another car. Years of trials and perseverance only to be ridden over by a drunk driver. You can’t predict the future. There are no promises.

I sat down in my seat and I knew it would never be the same again. Nail in the coffin.

You said it one time, losing trust in someone is the hardest thing. Much like you in some regards—not willing to take the risk.

We have followed all the requirements but for other reasons (which I am not going to discuss here) have been rejected. I don’t think you really know what you write on this blog and you are quite negative. Educate yourself and lighten up.

Posted by: Shalini | January 28, 2020 at 12:47 AM

Well, truth is I can’t comment if you don’t share the reasons.

And I’m sorry you don’t share my sense of humor (dark humor). I am not very serious... at all. Except for when I say that I can’t trust GSD. Other than that, I don’t take too much stuff very seriously.

I’m not a Satsangi anymore. I don’t go to satsangs or do the Sant Mat meditation or Simran. Been more than year now since I did that stuff.

So, if you want to see your version of the “truth” about RSSB on this blog then perhaps you should become a regular commenter and enlighten us.

Sonia truth is not everyone gets accepted for initiation as you so confidently claimed. That’s the reason I even started commenting is to let you know that you have no idea what you are saying. Thank you for your insights but no I’m not interested in any other master. I will wait till I get accepted by this one as the pull and love is only for this one. Ciao 👋🏻

I never seriously considered quitting until I stood up and asked that one question at Q&A last time I was there in December. After all the shit I was willing to work through on the path and had continued to work through, that one tiny single moment changed everything. it was like driving down a road, glancing away to grab your phone and then driving head on into another car. Years of trials and perseverance only to be ridden over by a drunk driver. You can’t predict the future. There are no promises.

I sat down in my seat and I knew it would never be the same again. Nail in the coffin.

Posted by: Sonia | January 29, 2020 at 07:03 AM

Being in the presence of a master a true master (Sat Guru), can be daunting in itself.

I recall the first time I mustered the gall and asked Baba Ji one purely spiritual question (per the new rules for Q & A sessions) at a surprise visit he made to the Irvine, CA Satsang.

Standing up finally (and for the 1st time) before my Master I started to feel like in that one movie "The Matrix (Reloaded)" when Neo finds and questions The Architect of the Matrix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHZl2naX1Xk
(2:00 - 2:43)

Of course the Matrix is pure fiction, but there is a saying or teaching on Sat Gurus. That if one brought to such a pure soul negative thoughts, that the pure soul would reflect those right back. Being, that here was a true Master above all latches, ills, or disturbance of the mind.

This is just one of the teachings one should keep in mind when approaching such a rare soul, a Saint.

Sonia truth is not everyone gets accepted for initiation as you so confidently claimed. That’s the reason I even started commenting is to let you know that you have no idea what you are saying. Thank you for your insights but no I’m not interested in any other master. I will wait till I get accepted by this one as the pull and love is only for this one. Ciao 👋🏻

Posted by: Shalini | January 29, 2020 at 10:37 AM

Shalini,

I wish I had been rejected. I wish it were that easy. Then I wouldn’t be here having to have this conversation with you. You have no idea what you’re getting yourself into. Just ask Shivinder and Shabnam.

Sonia It doesn’t really matter if you were accepted or rejected from your side if you leave the path does it? I
Very well know what I’m getting into. You don’t know what you got out of. Don’t need to ask anyone, though I have had many many people tell me stories very different from yours. Just think of it this way in a class not all students fail, Many pass too. Just because you failed it doesn’t mean others will too. Ciao 👋🏻

Just look at the people who have been closer to him than anybody else—an untimely death or prison. And not like they were persecuted for their beliefs. Money laundering.

I didn’t fail. I was victorious.

Shalini
You know it already and therefore there might be no hurry
Congrats and Success 4U

777

If there are none, the teacher is useless.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | January 27, 2020 at 06:31 PM

To my knowledge I still don't know even one Satsangi who makes such a claim. Yet, I do know some who like Baba Ji a true Satsangi wouldn't make the claim anyhow.

Why?

It goes back to another teaching on Ego. Which is known as one of the five perversions of the human mind. 'Soami Ji' Shiv Seth Dayal Singh never made such a claim. Baba Jaimal Singh Ji also, never made such a claim. Hazur Sawan Singh Ji, I challenge anyone to obtain and share evidence he made such a claim. Sardar Bahadur Jagat Singh even during his short tenure made no such claim. Hazur Maharaj Ji Charan Singh throughout his many travels, interviews, and visitations to different parts of the world charismatically and still, made no such claim. And finally Baba Ji aka Sri Gurinder Singh Ji Dhillon, he too today makes no such claim while able to amazingly & competent teach the way to go beyond the perversions of the mind.

I’m not going to say he should be in jail instead of Shivinder and Malvinder because I don’t wish that on anyone. But I do hope he treats you as well as he treated me.

Shalini, I wish you the best. And Ciao to you too.

Mmmmm

Just look at the people who have been closer to him than anybody else—an untimely death or prison. And not like they were persecuted for their beliefs. Money laundering.

I didn’t fail. I was victorious.

Posted by: Sonia | January 29, 2020 at 02:55 PM

Sonia untimely death may seem bad for you however we will all go sometime and if you lived a life like she did then death can be welcomed happily.
Again I have read many of your assumptions on this and I will say you have no idea what you are talking about. Atleast do everyone a favor and only speak what you know is the truth and don’t be a gossip.
With regards to the Singh brothers-everyone pays for the wrong they do. You can’t steal and expect to get away with it.
Glad you think you were victorious. Happy for you. You should be happy for others too.

Of course the Matrix is pure fiction, but there is a saying or teaching on Sat Gurus. That if one brought to such a pure soul negative thoughts, that the pure soul would reflect those right back. Being, that here was a true Master above all latches, ills, or disturbance of the mind.

This is just one of the teachings one should keep in mind when approaching such a rare soul, a Saint.

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | January 29, 2020 at 11:05 AM

OMG. OMG. OMG. Does anyone else have any really bad advice for me???

@Georgy
You asked once... and yes, an apology would be just fine.

Hi Karim
You wrote
"To my knowledge I still don't know even one Satsangi who makes such a claim. Yet, I do know some who like Baba Ji a true Satsangi wouldn't make the claim anyhow."

Yes. I've seen this in some Sangats. In others Satsangis just radiate light and love. And then you find some in all walks of life. No Saint calls themselves a Saint, but neither do they accept any position of authority. Because the same problem of ego that you speak of applies to everyone. The Saint is only different in that their practice is a refined way to live without the trappings of ego, such as a dias, position of authority over "initiation", a formal title of Master, a costume and lineage that imitates the legend of Saints past, including turban and a method of meditation that requires others to place all their loving attention on you. That's ego, Karim.

No true Saint comes anywhere near these things. No true Saint accepts a formal role to connect people to God. A formal role acknowledged as such, heaping claims of official authority upon authority onto the Guru.

That's all ego, whether you say "I'm God in Human form.," or whether you, in the accepted role of the Master, say in the third person, "The Master is perfect." Same problem of ego.

But a True Saint connects you instantly. It happens wordlessly. And they will set the limit that they have no title and no formalized authority. Their Authority comes from the highest source. It's already there. God and God alone, singularly, is the only true Authority. All others are false.

If you can let go the title, the formal role, the urban myths, then, in the right time, you will meet one. They might have been your boss at work, the waitress at the restaurant, your uber driver, your neighbor. They are the entire creation, and all its regions. And they have no school but their own personal way of living.

But until then, of course, honor the teacher you have. When you are done with authority, with power, with certified initiation, with Sacred Ceremony, Knowledge and Truth and all the trappings of the most egoistic and self - congratulating definitions of those words, when you have worn all that out, there before you will be a true Saint. They will never allow you to call them Master. Only Friend.

^

@Karim W. Rahmaan
So Very Correct

RS teachings are above all that the
Jeeva must become the Words, The Sound and The Master

So The Master is primordial - HE is This Path

777

-

Sonia my father who has been initiated and have practiced sant mat meditation for many years now always tells me that his death day will be a very happy day for him. So he tells us not to worry or cry when he leaves as he is leaving happily he is going home. So there you go-not everyone views death as a bad thing.

Glad you think you were victorious. Happy for you. You should be happy for others too.

Posted by: Shalini | January 29, 2020 at 04:15 PM

This is like watching Free Fire.

Hi Karim
You wrote
"Of course the Matrix is pure fiction, but there is a saying or teaching on Sat Gurus. That if one brought to such a pure soul negative thoughts, that the pure soul would reflect those right back."

If you like literature attributed to the Saints you will find assertions to the exact opposite of what you wrote.

They are the philosopher's stone. Bring to them all your rust and filth, and they will transform it, and you, into gold. They are the cooling and soothing water that puts out all fires. And the fire that burns all impurities, that, in these ovens of clay, transforms iron into gold.

Karim, they do not reflect anything of this level at all. They aren't actually in this physical place. You are looking at something that is a projection from the source of life.

But that is a True Saint.

@ Karim, they do not reflect anything of this level at all. They aren't actually
@ in this physical place. You are looking at something
@ that is a projection from the source of life.
@ ...
@ They are the philosopher's stone. Bring to them all
@ your rust and filth, and they will transform it, and
@ you, into gold.

But, a Saint (the perfection within you that projects Him)
may make you aware of your inner rust and dirt in His
presence. So negativity is reflected from a Saint's "mirror"
back to you.

I think the Daryai Lal's story of the notorious dacoit Gangu
Daku in Great Master's time is illustrative.

@Spence

Thank you for sharing this. It is beautiful. It is their love that draws people to true Saints (those who have gone past the mind and merged with the Shabd).

“They are the philosopher's stone. Bring to them all your rust and filth, and they will transform it, and you, into gold. They are the cooling and soothing water that puts out all fires. And the fire that burns all impurities, that, in these ovens of clay, transforms iron into gold.”

^

@Karim W. Rahmaan
So Very Correct

RS teachings are above all that the
Jeeva must become the Words, The Sound and The Master

So The Master is primordial - HE is This Path

777

-

Posted by: 💥❤️💥❤️💥❤️💥❤️💥❤️💥❤️💥❤️💥❤️💥 | January 29, 2020 at 06:37 PM

Radha Soami big brother!

As I am still years behind you, and your well earned experience -thanks for the new lesson. I look to learn as much as I can
:)

https://m.economictimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/religare-fraud-ed-to-reach-out-to-foreign-countries-to-identify-proceeds-of-crime-parked-abroad/articleshow/73753742.cms

@Dungeness

You wrote:

But, a Saint (the perfection within you that projects Him)
may make you aware of your inner rust and dirt in His
presence. So negativity is reflected from a Saint's "mirror"
back to you.

My question is, do Saints mirror or do they see? Also, when giving Darshan do you believe that a Saint mirrors negativity? Do you believe that a Saint can look upon one and not give Darshan? Do you believe the eyes of a Saint can do anything more than give Darshan? Or do you also believe they can send negative vibrations as well?

And do you believe that Darshan is the reflection of negativity back to you?

@Darshan

HE sees your whole history
and You see that HE sees
He arranges karmas - maybe fixes
It's ALL what is best for You, your environment
your friends, even your banker said Charan

HE is the omnipotent, omnipresent Purusha
He deceits Kal in a mysterious way
He does the culmination of LOVE
Beyond time HE is, Universes are snow flocks 4HIM
He is The Greatest of The Great,
It's True but HE really considers Himself
the Lowliest of The Lowly
Sacrifies I am unto Thee Oh Holy

777


But Gurinder said he’s only gone so far as the fifth region (if that’s even true) however according to Sar Bachan there are 8 regions.

You Satsangis are an interesting bunch.

Fanaticism Is a Disease Like Alcoholism
Fanatics Anonymous 12 Steps. At core, don’t blame the addict; blame the disease

--Jeremy E. Sherman Ph.D., MPP

Fanatics, ideologues and absolutists are humanity’s greatest scourge. Whether they’re the leaders or the followers, fanatics are people who indulge in a heady, intoxicating and toxic concoction of self-affirming, know-it-all confidence that they have unique access to absolute truths, truths so perfect that they have to impose them on everyone.

The absolute truths that fanatics latch onto might be religious or political, right wing or left wing, Christian or Islamic, libertarian or communist, new age spiritual or old-time religious. It’s not what they believe that makes them fanatics but how they believe it, that they have final word, no need to consider further evidence, no need to ever wonder or doubt themselves again.

Fanaticism is a drug. Let loose on society it's like crack cocaine or alcohol only worse. Fanatics drive through life like alcoholics driving under the influence. They think they’re perfectly fine driving. They kill innocent bystanders, sometimes by the thousands or millions.

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