Open Thread 28 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

Remember, off-topic comments should go in an Open Thread.

This hasn't been happening recently, as some commenters have been using blog posts as a "chat room," basically, so from now on I'm going to vow to do better at not approving comments submitted on a regular blog post if the comment doesn't deal with the subject of the post. 

As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Dungeness]

@ My question is, do Saints mirror or do they see? Also, when giving Darshan do
@ you believe that a Saint mirrors negativity? Do you believe that a Saint can
@ look upon one and not give Darshan? Do you believe the eyes of a Saint
@ can do anything more than give Darshan? Or do you also believe they can
@ send negative vibrations as well?

@ And do you believe that Darshan is the reflection of negativity back to you?

Sonia, I believe you should ask those questions of a Saint and not a
wannabe :) Wading into the weeds a bit though, I think a behind
the scene explanation could kinda go like this: the unrealized Saint
within you sez "I could answer your questions but you'd say 'No way,
dude, you're not a real saint'. So what's a saint to do. The only way
is to put on a magic act --a robed, luminous figure on a dais-- to be
taken seriously. But, I'm really calling the shots . The clown on the
stage just pantomimes the lines I'm feeding him."

So think of it this way... your inner Yoda behind the curtain of your
mind produces the whole shebang. But keep it secret. Don't tell the
loudmouth wannabe out in the audience. Ya know the one... rowdy,
jeering, yelling 'fake, fake, show me a miracle, read my mind, tell me
what I'm thinking if you're so saintly'.

That's okay. Wannabe's just shout the lines of their script too. One day
they tire of the drama. They pull back the curtain and exit stage left.

[Sonia]

@Dungeness

Well, that's cute. :)

Truth is I've seen GSD do his magic act numerous times--miracles/magic/read minds... the whole shebang. But does that make him a Saint??

Anyway, I really am venturing into the woods here because I'm asking a lot of questions that I'm not even sure if I care about the answers to.

Thanks, though...

[Sonia Taylor]

Oh wow... I didn’t realize you could make an online donation to RSSB.

https://gateway.netpnb.com/radhaswami/default.aspx

Maybe this is another group using RSSB name to get money. That would be a scam not involving RSSB but still very wrong for whoever is doing it. Seems suspect because the link says radhaswami but the site says RSSB and the site linking to this site said Radha Soami Satsang Beas. Someone from RSSB should investigate just in case.

Here’s the original link. Maybe there is a link from RSSB.org and this is legit but it almost looks like a group posing as RSSB.
https://gateway.netpnb.com/radhaswami/default.aspx

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

Sonia, I believe you should ask those questions of a Saint and not a wannabe :)

Posted by: Dungeness | January 30, 2020 at 12:43 PM

It is true RSSB has always taught that anyone following ANY such Guru will only be able to advance as far as their own Teacher (Guru). In other words, they can only reach within into the realms gained by their Master.

Exception to this rule is that anyone who has ventured within without a Master, will be limited to fly only within the scope of Astral travel.

As a rule only the heights of Brahm can be reached, because Brahm, Kal, (or Shataan) is the ruler of; his seat, the Astral realm, and the world beneath it -the one which we all know and perceive. The material world with all it beautiful stars, galaxies, natural forces, sciences, creatures, and inert matter.

More reasons on why one can only reach as far as their own Master, can only be obtained by giving the science or method of surat shabd yoga it's fair experimentation and going with: To sahansdal kamal

[sonia]

Karim,

So, just curious... how did the first Satguru get past Kal?? And who was Shiv Dayal's guru? Do you happen to know the RSSB lineage beyond the last 5 or 6 masters? Does it go back to Nanak? So many questions that you never think to ask when you're new to Sant Mat. And after that you're just so busy with meditation that you may never think to ask.

Like I never knew there were other RS groups until I had been initiated for about 8 years. It was just kinda weird at the time when I found out. I thought, why don't people talk about the history going back farther than Shiv Dayal. I mean, it's important to know who your Master's Master was but people act like anything prior to Shiv Dayal doesn't matter. But who was Shiv Dayal really? And did he smoke a hookah?? :)

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Karim
You wrote
"More reasons on why one can only reach as far as their own Master, can only be obtained by giving the science or method of surat shabd yoga it's fair experimentation and going with: To sahansdal Kamal"

But as you can see this will, at best, only take you to the level of your master, and of course you will believe, based upon your evident progress, that this therefore must be the highest path.

But this "science" is an abstraction of what is in nature already. Sant Mat didn't invent Shabd, and while loving devotion to your Master will definitely help your concentration, a true Saint would never allow that. It is actually a distraction from the worship of the Father and must never compete with focus on the Lord.

In Sant Mat there is no actual worship of the Lord directly, only of the Master as the surrogate of God.

A True Saint knows this is the best human beings can come up with in trying to codify and systematize the worship of Shabd / God, which is the force of life. But as it substitutes an enlightened form of idolatry, it isn't the True Path. So there is a limit to how far that can take you.

The height determines the view.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"But, a Saint (the perfection within you that projects Him)
may make you aware of your inner rust and dirt in His
presence. So negativity is reflected from a Saint's "mirror"
back to you."

Not a true Saint. They don't care about your flaws. They are your friend.

The entire world, Dungeness, is a mirror. It is every action we have taken in the past taking the form of all the people and events around us. It is a giant nightmare constructed out of our own impressions and actions. Every human being you meet, every rock you see, every dog you pet is a reflection of some aspect of you.

But the True Saints, they are not a reflection of anything. They are the source, Light itself. They come from an entirely different place. In their presence we are literally raised from death to life. We are resurrected from our own karmic world, just being in their presence.

Perhaps this will help you recognize a real Saint one day. But whether your recognize them or not may hardly matter.

Their influence is absolute and often without our conscious awareness at all. That actually makes it easier for them to get their work done.

The idea of a Saint becoming the center of attention is abhorrent to them, and terribly wasteful.

[Spence Tepper]

The actor on stage, however, is a mirror, reflects your own hopes and desires, which you project upon them, largely without your conscious consent, our of your own human need. It is all very understandable, but it really is just feeding that karmic cycle. They are part of your karmic world and a reflection of that Karma. They have no light of themselves, only what, in your devotion, you give them. They are a canvas.

But a true Saint is the light, the source. Yet they are not a part of your Karma. Hence they are generally invisible to most people. And in that state they cannot be projected upon. They are shedding the light that runs things. Those are the true Saints.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"But this "science" is an abstraction of what is in nature already."

Posted by: Spence Tepper | January 30, 2020 at 05:24 PM

This science, if you want to study the Pali Canon contains the Buddha Nature.

"And after that you're just so busy with meditation"

Posted by: sonia | January 30, 2020 at 04:56 PM

Ahhh meditation, yes meditation. Sometimes I can, if I'm lucky.

[Dungeness]

"But, a Saint (the perfection within you that projects Him)
may make you aware of your inner rust and dirt in His
presence. So negativity is reflected from a Saint's "mirror"
back to you."

-- Not a true Saint. They don't care about your flaws. They are your friend.

I agree a Saint is absolutely a friend. But the friendship
of a Saint is also a gentle reminder of what the path is...
and isn't. A friendship without that is no friendship at all.

A Saint's behavior alone may be the catalyst for change.
But his words may be stronger and more direct. The books
are full of examples, such as Maharaj's ringing firmness (and
rebuke) in answering "why weed was prohibited on the Path".

The words may sound harsh but the intent is never to demean
or diminish... only to edify. No mini-sermon or put-down... just
simple, direct, sincere words from a friend. No friend could do
less.

[🌼💦🌼]

@Sonia said
We all make mistakes but some are far more difficult to fix than others.
me:
We can pray for them, all of those 50
Pray above our eyes will help

777

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"The words may sound harsh but the intent is never to demean
or diminish... only to edify. No mini-sermon or put-down... just
simple, direct, sincere words from a friend. No friend could do
less."

A true friend may make a sermon. They may even have harsh words. Or loving words. Or words of praise. But never. Never, never, never in public on a stage.

They never allow shame, public shaming to soil and corrupt their loving relationship to you. Just as no true friend would publicly shame you in front of an audience of thousands. It's an odd practice, a demeaning practice. But as bad as that is, seeing the other devotees defend it, justify it, really paints the picture of corruption.

And words are not the point. That's just self - congratulating entertainment. The audience feeds on the flesh of the questioner and delights in the humorous butchery of the stage actor. Even the questioner laughs at their own dismemberment, but hides their pain and shame.

Public vivisection is not part of a true Saints action.

A true Saint is a little different. Their presence alone does most of the work. In that presence, externally and internally, of friendship and good will our better attributes naturally rise to the surface. Reflection, introspection and change become fluid and at times invisible and natural.

What a stage actor must do to engage an audience not only has very little to do with your development, it can also be a big distraction.

No true friend has harsh words for you in front of an audience. They don't make a public display. They are with you, 1:1, in most of their relationship. What they have to say, they do it in private. Like any real friend. And they are the most real of any.

The whole Q and A show is a distraction and a public display. In that show not only the stage actor is an actor, presenting for the whole audience, but the questioner as well. It's a show, Dungeness.

It's tragic that the whole system requires a public display of either humility, or humiliation. It is merely a humorous show of raw power.

And the fact is, people find excuses for it, make explanations for it, and even themselves indulge in it.

That's going the wrong way.

But you get the Master you deserve until you see what's going on and wear it out. Then you find the true Saints, or realize they were always there, as a humble friend

[Spence Tepper]

Dungeness, if your Master doesn't have time to spend with you privately, one to one, just to hang out, lots of time, as much as you need, even more, they aren't a true Saint.

Sorry for the harsh words.

They can be a fine teacher of philosophy and meditation. They can be a fine entertainer, though public shaming is a terrible indulgence, and corrupting people to desire that is actually teaching masochism, and for the audience, sadism.

Human beings were meant to rise to nobility. For that you need a good and true Friend. An enobling friend.

The stage actor has a job to do.

But it isn't actually the job of the True Saint, which is to raise souls to the highest home. They model that to some degree. They advertise it, they introduce you to it, they make you familiar with it, they make it real for you, and you get some initial inner movement just from love. But it is a hard love. Remote, distant, limited, scarce.

But the road splits at some point of realization, generally when a Friend, a true Friend enters the picture. They are there for you. That love is genuine, personal, of infinite patience. And then, in that presence, we put down the toys. We just let go of what we had clung to so tightly.

We realize how nice, clean and easy it is to learn from our Friend without public shame. To gently see ourselves as small beings moving gently forward, all connected to the Lord. Nothing is worth shame, or anger, indulgence, tears. Our dear Friend is here. Everything is fine. There is no lack of time with them. No competition for the microphone. And all questions evaporate.

[Spence Tepper]

In idol worship the idol is promoted as God, and no one can go beyond the idol/ guru.

They like to say, in their defense, that no student can go beyond their teacher.

But this wrong. Every great teacher wants their students to go well beyond them, they expect it, and that is the testament to a great teacher. That some of their students do so.

And both every True Saint and great Teacher is humble enough to know that they are only part of a larger career, not the end all be all of that career at all. They are in constant effort also for progress. They never presume nor do they like to see their friends or students acting as if they have gone the whole course. They don't role model such arrogance either. They never refer to their own teacher as the end all and be all, for both field of profession and the Lord are always larger by far than we.

[Dungeness]

@ No true friend has harsh words for you in front of an audience. They don't
@ make a public display. They are with you, 1:1, in most of their relationship.
@ What they have to say, they do it in private. Like any real friend. And they
@ are the most real of any friend...

I agree and Maharaji's "harshness" in Q&A in answer to why weed
was forbidden was an appropriate response from a real friend. It
was heartfelt advice from one to another. That moment was
between friends. Others in the audience were the side show.

To project shaming and speak of "getting the Master you deserve"
smacks of a yenta who has" busybody'ed" himself into the private
conversation of friends. Sorry for my harsh opinion (and potentially
bad Yiddish).

[Sonia]

Ahhh meditation, yes meditation. Sometimes I can, if I'm lucky.

Posted by: Karim W. Rahmaan | January 30, 2020 at 10:09 PM

So, basically you have no idea who the Masters were or how the first Satguru came to be. 👏

Please do keeping preaching about RS... so good to hear from someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

[Jen]

Spence, who are these True Saints you speak of? Is this about the God in Heaven that the bible teaches? I wonder very much if you ever were a satsangi and I think you probably are some kind of pastor preaching in a Church somewhere...

"But the True Saints, they are not a reflection of anything. They are the source, Light itself. They come from an entirely different place. In their presence we are literally raised from death to life. We are resurrected from our own karmic world, just being in their presence."
...
"But a true Saint is the light, the source. Yet they are not a part of your Karma. Hence they are generally invisible to most people. And in that state they cannot be projected upon. They are shedding the light that runs things. Those are the true Saints."
...
"But you get the Master you deserve until you see what's going on and wear it out. Then you find the true Saints, or realize they were always there, as a humble friend."
...
"We realize how nice, clean and easy it is to learn from our Friend without public shame. To gently see ourselves as small beings moving gently forward, all connected to the Lord. Nothing is worth shame, or anger, indulgence, tears. Our dear Friend is here. Everything is fine. There is no lack of time with them. No competition for the microphone. And all questions evaporate."

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

So, basically you have no idea who the Masters were or how the first Satguru came to be. 👏

Please do keeping preaching about RS... so good to hear from someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about.

Posted by: Sonia | January 31, 2020 at 11:02 AM

I only know of some of the teachings.

On the lineage, I did attempt to search that. You may be able research it better than what's available on the web or the various sects who also teach the path in question.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen
Between shouting at the darkness and pointing to the light I chose the latter.

I don't always make that choice, and obviously it isn't always well received. But I like to tell the truth as best I can.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"To project shaming and speak of "getting the Master you deserve"
smacks of a yenta who has" busybody'ed" himself into the private
conversation of friends. Sorry for my harsh opinion (and potentially
bad Yiddish)."

Shaming is what others reported feeling. And if you believe what Sawan Singh wrote, hurting anyone's feelings is not a good thing to do.

It's entirely unnecessary.

You can go right on defending the guy on stage.

But I have had better luck finding true Saints off stage.

They look at the stage performances the way you and I might lovingly attend our child's Christmas Pagent at school. A performance for and by children. Children in the audience. A child on stage.

[Sonia Taylor]

Spence is right.

[Spence Tepper]

The true Saint lives by simple standards. Their teaching is their behavior and lifestyle. They practice what they preach, they live by the same standards they hold as universal.

Because their values are based on belief and faith in a higher power, and kindness towards all, this leads to a simple lifestyle where material possessions have a little to no value and their needs are few. They left the rat race for acquisition long ago, if they ever were even in it. Money has a very tiny place in their lives. They manage theirs with care and efficiency. It takes up a very small portion of their time. They are never a burden upon others at all, financially or emotionally. Instead, they are a source of emotional help. They have a huge reserve and can listen actively and enthusiastically for hours to your story. They are interested in you, and happy to share the happiness and happenings of their own life as well.

Because they do not accept any position of authority, they accept questions from their friends about anything they have done. They are completely transparent and accountable.

They don't steal, they don't speak ill of others, they don't commit adultery, they don't place themselves as an intermediary between their friends and God, they don't practice nor promote idol worship, they work for a modest living, and their work is simple and honest work. They don't write nor advocate "teachings" or a formal philosophy. They simply love in a simple life and worship the Lord, the divine almighty, the source of life, though they only speak of that in the vaquest terms. God is their true Love, and God is Love, and Love is God, alive, conscious and active, and yet they are happy to tell you God and Love are a true and wonderful mysteries. And yet we can merge with these! They practice this worship every day and carry that practice with them 24/7.

They aren't writing any book, though they may share the inspiration and truth they find in the writings of others from various philosophies and religions. . They are still learning, still growing, busy being born, though death has no hold on them.

They judge no one.

No one ever has to make excuses for them.
"well they might need to shame others publicly, but behind the scenes they are all divine love..."
"they had to steal, they had to hide it, they had to keep silent about their own involvement, they had to let themseves be accessory to crime for divine reasons...."

This is never necessary. It simply doesn't happen. There is zero scandel in their lives.

They live according to the same standards of right and wrong, good and bad they claim to believe in. They don't expect others to live up to them, but they don't violate them. They never speak an unkind word.

And this is primarily what amazes and inspires their friends. That they can get through this world on such simple and happy terms. That in good times or bad times they can acknowledge and adapt, but that in all events they maintain poise, positive attitude, and an atmosphere of agape, universal love and actions to help.

It is natural to love and emulate them. No one needs to tell their friends to do so.

All the inner pathway is there for their friends. The True Saint has made themselves small so that they carry the immensity of all creation, this and every other region, not simply the three, or the five, or even merely the eight, within them. They carry the infinite within them, for the simple practice of placing the Lord above all in every moment.

[💦💛💙💦]

Fascinating :
https://www.dezeen.com/2020/01/31/inouye-solar-telescope-nsf-sun/
777

[Spence Tepper]

What the True Saint does, first and foremost, by their conviction, is help bring to their friends the Presence of God. But they never let their friends confuse the Saint's presence with that of God. It's true we learn from them, they are the living embodiment, and in their presence we feel that Presence. But that divine Presence is the All, and we, including our beloved Friend, are tiny parts. We find happiness, synergy, synchronicity in that Presence of the Divine. And movement within it comes readily to us, easier, because our focus isn't on the Messenger but on the actual Message. It isn't on the deliverer, but on the Delivery. And that Delivery, that small package of the Word, Nam, is the gateway to the entire creation in this and the entire multi-verse.

They are the best Atheist in the sense that they do not allow any concrete definitions of God. The mind is incapable of defining the entire creation with any accuracy except in separate parts. That is fine for cognitive understanding. But merging with Love, that made this creation, drives it, and is the whole, requires an intuitive, rather than reductive, perspective. And in that intuitive perspective we gain a completely accurate intuitive holistic understanding because we merge with the object of our love. And merged in that Love we are entirely free to enjoy and live in that divine Presence Of God, to commune with our best Friend, the Lord, as our true Father, and to travel as we have never done before, within Him. That moment of return and Réunion within cannot be described.

Our friend has a divine presence and role, but they are always our Friend, our Brother or Sister. And always pointing up to the Father, and pointedly away from themselves. There are no Darshan and Dion rituals. Those are a sin, a terrible distraction. They never indulge in letting us do that.

The fact they are here, they are a testament to the false actors, who do not point to them and may not even know about them. Yet, while such True Friends are not great in Number, they can be found all over the world. Flowers are beautiful, and it is God's will to make them in so many different places for us to enjoy. But generally these flowers are in places of humility that most people will not go to. They don't understand the beauty of the tiny wildflowers. They need the huge hybrids, the gaudy colors that cannot sustain, that can only survive under artificial circumstances.

The actors on stage in turbans, business suits, robes rarely acknowledged the True Saints, though they discuss the stage actor saints with great reverence, as they are referring with loving submission, to themselves. They are easier for most people to identify with. They have power and money, and all the material things people who are not connected within want. And they help those people learn about that connection. They serve a purpose. Just as history, always a fictional account, helps us learn something about reality.

But it is the lineage that gives the false away. Referring to their Master, their Role all as divine elements, they are actually referring to themselves as God.

But God, in that sense, is in everyone in equal proportion, and our Friend helps us at no cost at all to grow that relationship.

The Stage Actors demand pledges, ritual ceremonies, vows, and your devouring devotion upon them. It is a distraction.

As a photocopy it is informative. It resonates with God, as one string plucked on a guitar resonates the strings next to it. But it is not the divine string. It is indirect. To play that divine string directly, naturally, worship of that, of the Divine, not of the stage actor, is necessary. And all the worship of the stage actor, all that devotion cannot suffice. And when you wear that out, you are ready to see the wildflowers that were always in your back yard. But now you see them differently. Now you are stuck by one, and amazed at their beauty.

Our true Friend helps us how to play that string, the only one in their small life. What seemed impossible becomes child's play. And we become children at play. All children of the same Father, the same inheritance.

[💦💛💙💦]

So many Jeevas
777

[Jesse]

I'm a True Saint. Most of you are just too thick headed and self absorbed to realize it. Sucks to be you, and it'll suck for you to be all toasty and crispy in the inferno and/or be born as a snake, but that's what you get for ignoring all the signs.

[Spence Tepper]

The stage actors claim that you must learn to die daily in order to find salvation and eternal life.

But the True Saints aren't busy dying. They are busy being born, again and again, awakened to new regions, raised to new heights every moment of every day, into a finer and nobler love. Of course the past simply evaporates, just as it actually does, without a moments' thought. Because creation reinvents itself moment to moment, there is no issue of old Karma. It is we who rebuild those impressions moment by moment. But in rebirth, those old husks are gone in an instant as if they never existed. And that is just following the natural pull.

We only learn how to move within trying to catch up to our Friend. We are trying to keep up, and in that way they are pulling us, though actually they are just becoming more and more of Whom they Love, of their True nature, as are we. You could say they are revealing themselves as if it is a game between they and us. That's how the stage as actors describe it, as if it is all a chess game where the master thinks and acts.

But this is false. Life doesn't stop to think. It is all thought and action in one.

So our Friend, the True Saint is simply following His Bliss, and we are seeing it more clearly, following ours.

[anami]

Spence,

It might be a little different for you born hearing Shabd and going within. Without RSSB the very ideas would be unknown to me, and I'd never given much thought to self control. Aren't we better off working with what we have than combing bus stations, bowling alleys and laundromats for "true Saints" "invisible to most people?"

[Dungeness]

@ Shaming is what others reported feeling. And if you believe what Sawan
@ Singh wrote, hurting anyone's feelings is not a good thing to do. It's entirely
@ unnecessary. You can go right on defending the guy on stage.
@ ...But I have had better luck finding true Saints

Sawan Singh spoke sternly to others at times though. As mentioned
so did Maharaji to the weed user asking why it was verboten. Jagat
Singh used even stronger language when someone asked him for a
2nd opinion 'cuz he didn't like an answer Sawan had given. Of course
it coulda been in private but what if others were in earshot?

Who decides the merits of a "shaming" report? Is a Q&A a zero
tolerance zone for any perception of offenses? Should RSSB jump
to empower a committee to look into incidents? Cite polls, gently
chide the Master if stats don't look good.

Seriously, If teachers are critiqued on the basis of "shaming" reports
who could ever make the cut? It's not a subject for ridicule though.
If a victim feels shamed, seek help and/or complain. In my opinion
look for another path if there's no resolution.

[Spence Tepper]

The followers of the stage actors claim:
"Because the Master has already reached the destination, they are now free to engage in big business, empire building, worldly acquisition. They are God and don't even need to meditate."

Yes this is the very source of the corruption. Because the followers followed their leader. And this is how the followers have gotten into trouble.

But the True Saints only lead by Love, and their devotion is to God, to their inner development, which places worldly activity far far down to the smallest priority that can be honestly and responsibly managed.

They don't do this for show. They do it because this is their life's breath, their connection to the Lord is their practice.

And it is the way they teach, by example.

"At this stage... " is a lovely excuse of the stage actor and their followers to create a caste system where some must work and others are free to live without working, just prognosticating, or worse, indulging in materialism and passion.

But the True Saints teach something else. The life of devotion doesn't end. We don't become free to do something else. We become the life of devotion. The activity of worship carries us to the highest regions, and beyond, because it is beyond limit. Our devotion becomes endless. And it becomes the source of infinite peace and sublime pleasure, confidence in God, and satisfaction with our tiny and moving place in this world, for the ever more limited times we spend here.

The notion that there is a point we can stop working makes no sense to the True Saint nor their followers. Walking up the ladder one simple flight from basement to panorama views in a mountain top suite is happy work, every day, every hour of the day. They will tell you that God is a working God. And you get to experience that for yourself. Everyone works. And the path of devotion is what we are all working to become, and are becoming.

Those who are not working, generally, beyond normal periods of rest, are indulging. They lose in an instant what they were working for.

But that's ok. When you fall you get back up. If you are humbled. You don't claim you deserve or are owed anything. You don't tell a judge you should be let off the hook because you have decided to pray, and therefore have no duty to make amends for the harm you did.

Instead the followers of the True Saint, should they fall instantly apologize and offer to spend their life making right what they did wrong. Because doing so is true worship of the Lord. And comes with its own inner wealth.

But the one who fell can't be blamed. They were following the bad example of a stage actor deeply involved in worldly, material acquisition, and entirely unapologetic for any harm done.

Marathoners don't fall, as a rule. And that is because they don't get distracted. They don't stop. They don't wander to the bazaar stands along the road. They work at a comfortable pace, adapting all the time as they go. They don't get distracted by side paths. They can only go one way, forward. They figured that out long before the race began.

But the Stage Actors, just like their followers, who have not actually mastered the work, but play the role, are at some distance from it. They have other worldly duties and distractions, because they are not True Saints.

But for True Saints, this is their entire life, devotion , prayer, meditation, honest work, and loving Friendship, earning their way, paying their bills, staying clear of any whiff of questionable behavior. They are Marathoners who long ago mastered the Art of keeping on, going forward, in the direction before them without distraction to roadside diversions and indulgences. They may run past beautiful buildings for rent, lovely fields for rent, fine clothing shops and restaurants. They aren't interested in the least. They have something far more valuable right inside them, connecting them to their destination, and defining their run. And so they run a perfect pace and balance without any distraction at all. And without burdening anyone. They run true, and honestly.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anami
If I heard Shabd as a child, If I spent my high school days after school listening to Shabd for hours, knowing this was God, just as a way to leave behind the stresses of high school, and I myself am a very flawed individual, then there must be many people born by nature into this condition. There are.

I once had a rock and roll musician friend (not A Satsangi) and after years mentioned the divine inner music. "Of course," he commented calmly, "we hear it all the time... But I think many people in religion just get lazy and would rather be devoted to some ritual."

He had no formal religious affiliation, other than his Zen practice. And lived without any formality at all. Everyone loved Rob. He was living with Shabd. He was a king in his own right, of kindness and friendship.

Should I have been shocked?

I've read here people who went to Satsang for years and never met a Satsangi who experienced Nam. That shocks me.

I've had Satsangi friends in L. A. who confided that Shabd overwhelmed them, and they couldn't get to sleep because it was so loud.

I recall one woman who gave a Satsang in Milwaukee, and when she mentioned Shabd, she just looked up and sighed, raised her hands from the table, and with tears quietly remarked, "the ringing radiance! The ringing radiance..." then returned to the rest of her scripted Satsang.

And so many more stories... Strangers who knew nothing of Sant Mat living in the Shabd day and night, humble, in meager circumstances, happy to share.

These wildflowers can be found wherever you go.

You have learned some basics. Like the guitar string, your efforts will resonate with the divine string. And at the right time you will be brought to a True Friend. Be a good friend to them!

[Spence Tepper]

The mighty Being... A sound like thunder everlasting...

It is a beauteous evening, calm and free,
The holy time is quiet as a Nun
Breathless with adoration; the broad sun
Is sinking down in its tranquility;
The gentleness of heaven broods o'er the Sea;
Listen! the mighty Being is awake,
And doth with his eternal motion make
A sound like thunder—everlastingly.

Dear child! dear Girl! that walkest with me here,
If thou appear untouched by solemn thought,
Thy nature is not therefore less divine:
Thou liest in Abraham's bosom all the year;
And worshipp'st at the Temple's inner shrine,
God being with thee when we know it not.
Wordsworth

Though you may not hear the everlasting Thunder of God, still you lay in the bosom of God, whether you know it or not. Even in the inner temple within!

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

I once had a friend, he told me that I was his best friend. And that we had each others backs, and to always tell him the truth even if he was wrong at the time and he would also tell me the hard truth, no matter what was popular opinion at the time.

This was my only friend in life up until I found Baba Ji. Who added to my knowledge of friendship, with the wisdom that the closest friend was unseen but more a friend than my best friend.

Later, my best friend died. I really hope what Baba Ji told me is true: "Sat Guru is my only undying friend. But to realize this you must first seek the lotus feet within."

[🌿🌼🌻❤️💥❤️💥 ❤️💥❤️💥 💦]

@Karim

What a blessed memory!
BabaJi is The Sound and we just need to be aware that it is there
When I ever was a SatGur, . .
I would decide which worldly music a disciple appreciated most
up to excitement. ..
next I would inject into That a little bit of Shabd
to improve the whole
next I wold do nothing than that to the point that the Lover would beg to go on for
5 hours
Same with 64K worldly streamings
Such a way I would lure the mind with it's own tricks
and take 95% if not All of Jeevas
I just would do them better, the tricks ; add some of my own

I would do the same for animals and plants, rock, planets, stars and more
Next everybody into the 7th Heaven
All karmas destroyed with milligram of my Love

Radha. Soami

Read my lips, the Lady comes first with her own specialities

777

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

Radha. Soami

Posted by: 🌿🌼🌻❤️💥❤️💥 ❤️💥❤️💥 💦 | February 02, 2020 at 04:35 AM

Charan has taught you well!
Radha Soami

[❤️💥 ❤️]

#Karim

Physically HE scolded me with people observing / laughing
at the time
I have enough Ego left for this comment_job here . . with Joy
Sukria Karim

777

[❤️💥 ❤️. 777. ❤️💥 ❤️]

So, there was a time with no hydrogen, in conclusion: nothing eternal exists.
Posted by: John_S | February 21, 2020 at 09:55 AM

GOD from no_Time works
these simulations All The Time

Some exist a zillion big bangs -
Some half a nano second

Chaurasi has nothing to be afraid of
as long as you take your Love with You

777

[X17]

GOD from no_Time works
these simulations All The Time

Some exist a zillion big bangs -
Some half a nano second

Chaurasi has nothing to be afraid of
as long as you take your Love with You

777

Posted by: ❤️💥 ❤️. 777. ❤️💥 ❤️ | February 22, 2020 at 05:29 AM

So simply stated only that which is beyond time is eternal and this is just God/Word or whatever you may refer it as.

Everything else is at best temporarily permanent - including modern science.

[A Wise 🦉]

@Karim

What a blessed memory!
BabaJi is The Sound and we just need to be aware that it is there
When I ever was a SatGur, . .
I would decide which worldly music a disciple appreciated most
up to excitement. ..
next I would inject into That a little bit of Shabd
to improve the whole
next I wold do nothing than that to the point that the Lover would beg to go on for
5 hours
Same with 64K worldly streamings
Such a way I would lure the mind with it's own tricks
and take 95% if not All of Jeevas
I just would do them better, the tricks ; add some of my own

I would do the same for animals and plants, rock, planets, stars and more
Next everybody into the 7th Heaven
All karmas destroyed with milligram of my Love

Radha. Soami

Read my lips, the Lady comes first with her own specialities

777
Posted by: 🌿🌼🌻❤️💥❤️💥 ❤️💥❤️💥 💦 | February 02, 2020 at 04:35 AM

Numerous satgurus have come and gone who could have done what you enumerate. But they haven't, for they but bow down to HIS wish.

So have you been entrusted with any such responsibility? albeit on a much smaller scale like all jivas in your home town.

This I know is at times entrusted to some (often the hidden progressed disciples) or some volunteer to take it upon themselves.

[Jen]

Confusion is the Mother of Wisdom

Moment after moment, thoughts and feeling arise, and they come and go. There are some thoughts that we feel pleased to welcome when they arrive. There are other thoughts that we simply do not want to have. And there is the fact that these thoughts are continually arising moment after moment after moment and filtering our view of our experience so that we continually fall into points of view that are very partial, very biased.

It also manifests much more deeply, much more subtly as "self and other", "this and that". It manifests even more subtly as what we believe to be a body, what we believe to be a mind, what we believe to be time and space. We have all kinds of beliefs, all kinds of conceptions, all kinds of points of view that we fall into that do not match our experience. And so we call this confusion, or we might call it dukkha; we might call it suffering.

Since there is so much attachment to our confusion, when we begin to practice and we begin to realize that there is a possibility of clarity, a possibility of wisdom, we want to release our attachment to confusion and we want to grab on to clarity. We want to hold on to clarity. But the whole source and root of confusion is attachment and to become attached to clarity, to become attached to wisdom, is simply confusion.
It is in directly recognizing confusion as it arises that wisdom also arises.

https://wwzc.org/dharma-text/confusion-mother-wisdom

[Sonia Taylor]

I'm a True Saint. Most of you are just too thick headed and self absorbed to realize it. Sucks to be you, and it'll suck for you to be all toasty and crispy in the inferno and/or be born as a snake, but that's what you get for ignoring all the signs.

Posted by: Jesse | February 01, 2020 at 09:01 AM

🤣🤣🤣

Laughter is sanity.

[❤️💥 ❤️ ❤️💥 ❤️]

@UNTRUE. CONCEPT

The Maui has changed, dear A Wise 🦉. - ❤️💥 ❤️ ❤️💥 ❤️
So Sorry Guys, I have to report to be the most happy individual on the planet

Thanks to the !haha). fake Saints

As a real Manmukh All my 7 Chakras are excited 24/7
the highest a tiny little more!

Please don't stop analysing and study as many books U can

777

ps
just don't hurt a thing

[🌿🌼🌿]

Posted by: A Wise 🦉 | February 22, 2020 at 07:07 AM

wow

You are the Beloved of The SatGuru

[💥❤️💥]

X17
God/Word or whatever you may refer it as.

Shabad

Enough =not Enough

777

[🌼]

🌼
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8VRwEVZw04

777

[A Wise 🦉]

Posted by: A Wise 🦉 | February 22, 2020 at 07:07 AM

wow

You are the Beloved of The SatGuru

Posted by: 🌿🌼🌿 | February 23, 2020 at 03:21 AM

Even though I am the most UNDESERVING. Actually all his disciples are his beloved for my Satguru (GSD) is kind, forgiving and a benevolent Emperor.

[A Wise 🦉 Kiss 777 🌿🌼🌿]

A Wise 🦉

Kiss

777
🌿🌼🌿

[💥❤️💥 777 💥❤️💥]

Religious people, why do you believe in God?

Because They are HIM. 💥❤️💥

777