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January 07, 2020

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Hi Sonia

You say “If peace and serenity aren’t necessary attributes of a saint then no one needs spirituality.”

"That was an aha! Moment for me where I realized that peace and serenity is the path I want to follow. And currently I am in a Zen nightmare that I want to break free from. I really want peace in my life."

"For me, I’d like to follow the Zen path. That’s what my aha moment was last night."

I agree, we want peace and serenity but sometimes it seems impossible.

I look up Zen quotes to find something that strikes home for me. I like this one. It is a challenge though. Not being too harsh on self and just observing self.

"We can never obtain PEACE in the outer world
until we make PEACE with ourselves"

Perhaps this comment is better suited here than on the psilocybin thread.

Jeurgensmayer and David Lane have written extensive theses on the development and offshoot lineages of RS mat so there is absolutely nothing to be afraid of researching these historical aspects since Soami Ji.

The fact is the line of gurus followed on by Baba Jaimal Singh has been the most prolific and prominent in India as well as abroad. It's only your personal experience that brings anyone to realize what is authentic and what is not.

If you still need some intellectual advice and clarification regarding what RS mat is about then you have not satisfied your intellects ramifications. Neither have you had sufficient experience on a personal level to settle all your personal confusion and doubts.

Posted by: Whodunit | Jan 8, 2020 12:49:57 AM

Add a little bit of Love to the menu.
Is tasty.


777

No formal line of Gurus is the highest path. In the true Sat Guru the teacher is your brother or sister, your neighbor, colleague or friend. Only one authority, the divine, and that is above us all. The true teacher points to God, not themselves. They are a Master of pointing to God, and a Master of avoiding the dias, the formal authority, the lineage. They don't label the teachings, they don't copyright them, they don't charge a penny for them. If someone publishes them, that is a secondary layer, a copy.

They are not chosen by anyone but the Lord. Not a family thing, not an inheritance, except that we are all children of the same God and can partake the identical birthright built into each of us.

The formal path is always a photocopy of the True Path and well beneath it. But a good photocopy of a map still can have very high value, if you use it well.

Use it to find the highest and True Teachers. That is the only utility of the photocopy. A good stepping stone.

... But don't confuse the photocopy for the real, or any map for the destination. And that destination is always inside you. You carry it around with you wherever you go. All the treasure there is, is already in you.

-

Some true words from a Master :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5veHm_eUy8M

777


-

The Walled Garden of Truth / [Sanai]

Had he not shown himself, how should we have known him?
Unless he shows us the way, how can we know him?

We tried reasoning our way to Him: it did not work;
but the moment we gave up, no obstacle remained.

He introduced himself to us out of kindness: how else could we have known him?
Reason took us as far as the door; but it was his presence that let us in.

But how will you ever know him, as long as you are unable to know yourself?

[1] MCS: If you would not have brought it before me, I wouldn't have known it
ME: If nobody would have told me about God ect, I wouldn't have known even the word.

[2] MCS In order to eat, there must be hunger and food … both are given … GIVEN

[3] Prof. B. The pull must come from within, if it is not there, there is nothing you can do

[4] Me: Humans do climb the everest and have an unique experience. The everest is not there to be climbed, neither are humans born to climb the everest. Walking a spiritual path is the same … only or a happy few.

[5] Love and devotion, needed to do simran are like the pull a GIFT. Mechanical simran has no value.

Etc etc etc.

SOME, have inner experiences., some have deep faith …. like others have an talent or this for that … it is all a gift … not that there is a giver, but that talent was not of their making

Question remains … why do they initiate people that don't have that pull etc??
No music pedagogue will ever start teaching with a person without talent

“I look up Zen quotes to find something that strikes home for me. I like this one. It is a challenge though. Not being too harsh on self and just observing self.”

"We can never obtain PEACE in the outer world
until we make PEACE with ourselves"
Posted by: Jen | January 07, 2020 at 06:46 PM

So true, Jen. Thanks for sharing. 😊

Hi Um
You write
"Had he not shown himself, how should we have known him?"

The pull comes from within. Then we automatically come together. We start by learning from our own discomfort with this place, our own desire for something better. Always starts with the pull from within.


" Unless he shows us the way, how can we know him?"

Knowing him is nothing. Knowing the Lord, the Divine is everything.

The seed needs the husk, needs the protection of the husk and the nutrients of the soil to start. Absolutely necessary.

But as that seed sprouts, it pushes against the husk. And a little light peaks through.

And then, the seed that loved the husk and its power and protection, as a result, in part, of the husk's good work, now pushes hard against it. As it must! As even the Husk desires.

Until the husk is no more, left behind, and the darkness of the soil is pierced, and the sky is radient, the first major step in the journey.

Sonia

@ Never hurt a 'thing
will do

Not even steal a smile

77

(not for exit Chaurasi, That one . only works only by Love", I mean
we go where our. heart is now)
see video

Maybe my post has more chance of being published on the Open Thread?

Before I copy and paste though, I would like to ask how members of the Church of the Churchless feel about vegetarian diet, and why?

On another topic

So many times Brian, you write how you value science. Mathematics has quite an important role to play in Science. So you should know that the infinity / infinity is not zero, just as I am sure you know that the sum of all positive integers is a small negative number. (calculates to -1/12 as Leonard Euler proved in 1735, a result that was only made rigorous later: today physicists have been seeing this result actually show up in nature. If you dont believe me, look it up.
on the rare occasions I visit your blog, I see so many references to science and how solid it is, and I puzzle about the statements made and wonder how anyone with a true knowledge of science can write so many false statements.
P

Dear Phil,

I went vegetarian for the selfish reasons of minimizing karma and getting initiation, but really, why kill animals when you don't have to? Don't you feel sad for them? They run away from predators because they desire as we do; whereas, a vegetable expects to be eaten, so you'll poop out its seeds with some nice fertilizer.

Hi Phil
It's problematic to apply algebra in a linear fashion to infinite values in series. The sum of all natural numbers isn't negative. But the assumptions in math necessary to actually determine this simplify the process to lead to this result. This is where Mathematics applied to the physical world has its points of divergence. But in the subatomic world it is possible, because particles can go negative, can cross space without movement, disappearing here and reappearing there, and can even go back in time.

When you apply different methods of math, like the communitive property, or simple division in infinite series, then what clearly was divergent becomes convergent. And there are instances in this physical world where the same things happen.

So while it is obvious in physics and math that the sum of all natural numbers diverges to an infinitely large and undefined number, it is not true applying those numbers to subatomic reality, and in particular fields of energy in a context where they are interacting with other fields. In that realm 1+1+1...or especially 1+2+3... can invert, and even sum to the negative.

Physicists do not actually believe this is applicable to the physical world, as you claim.

Physical world, meaning the non - sub atomic physical world.

Phil inquired: "Before I copy and paste though, I would like to ask how members of the Church of the Churchless feel about vegetarian diet, and why?"

--I was a strict vegetarian for a pretty long time.. about 28 years. I have thought and studied about this subject a lot.

People can live well on a variety of diets that include or don't include meat especially if civilization is available. There, you don't need to eat meat if you don't want to. There are so many foods and supplements at your beck and call. Don't like killing and eating cows? Don't do it. It's not necessary, although for some, avoiding meat will not be optimal for their particular metabolic setup.

In the wild, without food you have brought with you, you will eventually discover what your body really needs needs to survive long term in a vigorous way with a body capable of procreation and longevity. That will include some kind of animal food.

If you still need some intellectual advice and clarification regarding what RS mat is about then you have not satisfied your intellects ramifications. Neither have you had sufficient experience on a personal level to settle all your personal confusion and doubts.

Posted by: Whodunit | Jan 8, 2020 12:49:57 AM

Posted by: Whodunit | January 08, 2020 at 12:54 AM

It’s good to research and follow the changes that have taken place in RSSB teachings as well.

Spence, perhaps you should research before you reply?
Sum of all integers is generally accepted to be negative and known. It also has many real world applications.
Look at the work of Srinivasa Ramanujan - one of our greatest mathematicians, - humble enough to suggest all his knowledge came from a divine source - take a read of analytical continuity, a set of mathematical principles accepted in science and perhaps you might of heard of Leanard Euler who rigoursly proved the sum of all integers.
Just because the facts are not intuitive to Spence Tepper I suggest does not imply the facts are no longer facts. What your opinion may be Spence does not change reality, but it seems it only changes your reality.

Dont worry you are part of a large group of humanity who fiercely defend what they believe presumably because they believe they are right and those who offer something outside their reality therefore must be wrong.

I challenge your statement about sum of all integers based on my beliefs, which are simply that Euler et al. generally accepted to be among the worlds greatest mathematicians, know more about mathematics than Spence Tepper.
By the way, this result is used in several scientific areas, especially for theoretical physics including String theory.
But anyone with wide enough knowledge of science would of course be aware of this!


@ They run away from predators because they desire as we do;
@ whereas, a vegetable expects to be eaten, so you'll poop out
@ its seeds with some nice fertilizer.

Without a mind-meld, who's to say what plants "expect".
Oh, wait they don't have a brain, it'll have to be a soul-meld.

It could be the making of a good movie maybe... "Soylent
Green- the Early Years" or such. Darn though, I think Woody
Allen already did one similar... imagining what a single sperm
cell was thinking.

Ah, right, it was "Sleeper":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGj1smf-_vc

If Woody can take poetic license, why can't I? It also depends where we draw the line on intelligence...
https://youtu.be/DD5UKQggXTc

@Dungeness

Fantastic
in my almost 100 years of "do not hurt" life,
I never heard this,
I had "Secret life of Plants first edition
but this is SO NEW. to me

Karma explanations are always; they are the minimum
of karma when eten!

But when the hope and pray, desire and want it so much that they
praise God might be eaten
We do them a favour
It's an act of love
Now we are responsible to produce decent simian fertiliser
We ow them and They owe us

Refreshing is this

777
16K stereo 5D holo - full colours shabbd guy in a B/W world
Pls share

Hi Phil
You should have done some research on this.

"According to Physics Central, 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + … only equals -1/12 because the mathematicians redefined the equal sign. In this style of mathematics, called analytical continuation, "=" stopped meaning “is equal to” and started meaning “is associated with.” Tricky mathematicians."
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/great-debate-over-whether-1234-112-180949559/

" Can All the Natural Numbers be Summed?
(or, does 1+2+3+…equal −1/12?)
No, of course the natural numbers can't be summed.
1+2+3+…
has no sum; or we might just as well say that it sums to infinity. "
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/General/summingNaturals.html

You can't divide infinity, Phil. And therefore commuting values across the equals sign violates the princple inherent in diverging infinite series.

If you really need to understand infinite series and how Euler and Ramunujan's shorthand using discrete math for infinite complex series works, then consider that dividing infinite by 1, 2 or any number violates the principle of infinite values. But you have to violate that law to get to - 1/12. It's complex, but unreal. You can do it, but then - 1/12 isn't what you think it is.....

Keep reading on this Phil.

@Spence said
"" They are not chosen by anyone but the Lord. ''

To say this opens discrimination


The Truth is
that everybody gets what s/he wants

No one is forced to unify with God

The Kermess is so big and there is so much to enjoy first
and S/HE let us enjoy
Some warnings in dangerous places , . . yes
but if our. karma allows, . . we get it, . . everything . . .
Then the famous flute-player of Hamelen by 'chance' come
to us
and our desires go to his Songs

It's a fantastic scheme.
very logic
The karma bitch also works well
but first our desires


777

Hi Phil
Let me try to simplify for you.

1+2+3... diverges to an infinitely large amount.

But (1+2+3...)/2 is not actually half that amount. It isn't half of infinity.

In fact it's still infinity.

You can't apply discrete Algebraic laws to infinite series. Or, if you do, it requires redefining what you mean... So (1+2+3...)/2 may accelerate at half the rate of growth, but nothing can be said about terminal velocity since that's infinite.

Using algebraic math on infinite series is a shorthand that has substantial context constraints.
Hope this helps.

I’m shocked that RSSB doesn’t advocate veganism. Maybe in general we should just stop putting so much food in our mouths. Just look at films from the 70’s. People were so thin compared to the average person today.

@ anami

Yours is an outstanding contribution in the field of plant
sentience. A new species of malignant orange, grown
in the fertile field of imagination, has been identified for
the betterment and safety of all mankind (plants as well).

Poetic license granted!


@777

A worthy examination of spiritual symbiosis. Go forth little
children and fertilize the bounteous fields.

The House of Orange is proud of you!
Het Huis van Oranje is trots op je!

You can't apply discrete Algebraic laws to infinite series. Or, if you do, it requires redefining what you mean... So (1+2+3...)/2 may accelerate at half the rate of growth, but nothing can be said about terminal velocity since that's infinite.

Using algebraic math on infinite series is a shorthand that has substantial context constraints.
Hope this helps.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | January 09, 2020 at 01:51 PM

That sounds about right...

Maybe the real question isn’t whether you believe in God or not but whether you believe in infinity.

Quantification of infinity = 🤪

Flat-earthers anyone? Anyone? Anyone??

Infinity like Pi is irrational.

Pi, formally known as π in the world of mathematics, is the ratio of the circumference of a circle and the diameter of a circle.

Prince, formerly known as wtf symbol was irrational too. But a damn good musician.

Hi 777
You quoted me then commented
"@Spence said
"" They are not chosen by anyone but the Lord. ''

Then you commented
"To say this opens discrimination"

The opposite. It's not in our hands.


You wrote
"The Truth is
that everybody gets what s/he wants"

We want what we are conditioned to want. Without the body we don't want any things of the body.

You wrote

"No one is forced to unify with God"

Without the pull from within no one would even think of God in any context.

Without some experience of God, even unconsciously, there would be zero unity.

But experience is always there, and we never left. This dreamy mind fabricates this dimension.

@Sonia
Since you blame game for everything
Time for some indiscretions:

Are You Veganist? Overweight?

77

Spence , . . use 1. 2. 3. 5. 8. 13. Fibonacci like
so many samples around

Performed by Adam Sandler and Allen

https://youtu.be/JR3PC8VDoz8

[Sounds of Basketball being shot around]
Sandler: "Hey man, I'm joining a religious cult."
Allen: "Now, that's ridiculous."
Sandler: "Well, I'm joining it, so you gotta sign up too."
Allen: "What are you talking about?"
Sandler: "Hey, don't fuck me on this, man, just sign up."
Allen: "No, I'm not going to join a cult!"
Sandler: "I can't believe you're pulling this shit on me after Monday night --"
Allen: "What?
Sandler: "-- I wanted to watch Monday Night Football and you wanted to watch that other show and we watched your show -- I did that for you!"
Allen: "Yeah, well, you kept flippin' back to the game."
Sandler: "I WANTED TO SEE THE FUCKIN' SCORE! Whadda you gotta do that's so fucking importnat you can't join the religious cult with me?"
Allen: "Well, I was gonna go sunbathing."
Sandler: "Oh, boy, no no, I don't think you should do that. Because this guy, Russell -- he's the leader-guy of the cult --"
Allen: "-- yeah --"
Sandler: "-- he was rambling on during one of the speeches about the sun being bad, like the beast can't come out because the sun's too bright and the sun hurts his eyes or something -- you show up all sunburned and that guy's gonna get pissed at you and me!"
Allen: "Well, I'm not in the cult, so I don't have to worry about pissing the leader guy off!"
Sandler: "Look, I'm -- starting to believe in some of the stuff the cult guy's been saying -- some of it makes a lot of sense!
Allen: "Well, good, but I don't want to join the cult. We can still hang out; I just won't be in it with you."
Sandler: "The point is, I'm not gonna have time to hang out with you because I'm gonna be fuckin' busy with this fuckin' cult!"
Allen: "So I'll visit on weekends -- we'll work it out."
Sandler: "No, the weekends are like the busiest time -- that's when we go to flea malls and fuckin' malls and talk people into joining, man!"
Allen: "Can I join for just a little while? I told my dad I'd go visit him in Florida in three weeks."
Sandler: "Well, just, we'll ask then, but we gotta join now."
Allen: "What's the hurry?"
Sandler: "There's a girl I wanna meet there, what the fuck's your problem?"
Allen: "Well, I mean I don't really have to believe in this stuff, do I?"
Sandler: "No, no, just fuckin' tell everybody you believe in this shit -- when they say the sun sucks, go, "Yeah, fuck the sun, I fuckin' hate it too, long live the fuckin' beast."
Allen: "I don't know, man. This is crazy."
Sandler: "Look, they're gonna give you clothers, a free haircut, you're gonna get food --"
Allen: "-- it's not gonna be one of those weird haircuts, is it?"
Sandler: "It's gonna be a haircut, all right? You said you need a haircut, they're gonna fuckin' cut your hair. You're going in, saving twelve bucks, just fuckin' do it!"
Allen: "Do you think the hot girl has a friend for me?"
Sandler: "Yeah, sure, and if she doesn't, she'll go out and recruit one for you!"
Allen: "Well, all right. But, hey, if I don't like it, I'm going to escape, man."
Sandler: "OK, that's up to you."

@ But (1+2+3...)/2 is not actually half that amount. It isn't half of infinity.
@ In fact it's still infinity.

Can op's intended only for discrete values be applied to infinity at
all... Intuitively maybe, op's acting on infinity, eg, add/subtract or
divide/multiply, leave infinity unchanged. But does multiply by 0
nullify it... the mind boggles.

No, infinity is conceptual. Therefore I think "illegal op" or "undefined"
is clearer messaging to use. A new terminology and op set must be
used.

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"Can op's intended only for discrete values be applied to infinity at
all... Intuitively maybe, op's acting on infinity, eg, add/subtract or
divide/multiply, leave infinity unchanged. But does multiply by 0
nullify it... the mind boggles.

" No, infinity is conceptual."

Actually infinity within infinity is natural, and numbers are their discrete and conceptual representations.

There are infinite numbers, irrational and rational, between 0 and 1.

And there is a second Infinity between 1 and 2.

And an overlapping series between 0 and 2.

When we begin to measure, creation comes to our measurement. It resonates with discrete frequency, millimeters, whatever we use to parse this infinite reality, we find representation of that division in this indivisible creation. So then it becomes divisible according to our method of measurement. Hence discrete numbers are conceptual, because we create the rules for them. But infinity is natural. The natural state of all things.

A plank of wood may measure 3x8 but it is actually a complete whole. It fits the measure as we apply the method of measurement. Whether we use centimeters or inches the measurement will have a different result. Wood is the same. The difference is in our conceptual design.

But actually that wood has infinite units. And that is so outside of any measurement.

Time is much the same. Each moment is a microcosmic record of all time, just like holography. The whole is made up of infinitely many smaller images of the same thing.

Infinity is natural. Numeric measurement is our conceptual overlay. But infinity gladly complies.

Wow! I woke up abruptly this morning! Just wanted to share my thoughts on Kal since I’m regularly half-jokingly saying GSD is Kal. I only say that because GSD is the first RSSB Master that doesn’t take on any of his initiates karma, which is counter to previous RS policy. But how can he if his job is to dole out judgement? So, I get it... but still not cool. Plus everyone gets initiated. All you have to do is say you’re not blind or severely mentally ill, and congratulations! Here’s your Happy Meal. Sorry, no fun toy included.

The other thing is he seems to subscribe to the Hindu version of highest region. With him you could get that far at least but them according to old school RS philosophy you’d have to eventually come back and find a master that can take you beyond that level.

Anyway, what I just wrote sounds like a bunch of fantastical jibberish. Sounds even more insane if you share it with a Christian minded westerner... or an atheist. 🙃

But, what I woke up to this am was my husband asking me if I had payed $297 to some weird company in PA because it showed up on our card. Of course, I looked up the company and totally not legit. Then I wondered how they would have gotten our credit card number. And then I REMEMBERED. My nieces often use the money that they earn for doing chores or helping out to buy things they want online. This is a regular thing so they have our Amazon Prime login and just order from there. I normally ask to see the item first but my oldest niece told me last night she wanted to order a book that a friend of hers asked her to get. So Andrew and I were like “sure, fine”.

After I learned about the weird charge I went to our Amazon account order history and saw what she had purchased. 😡 Some stupid, idiotic, ridiculous, could-not-possibly-be-more-immature—‘Satanic Bible’. Look I support these girls with their Wiccan/tarot reading, sage burning, gender identity crisis. They’re really good girls. We only have five rules for them:

1. Be happy
2. Be honest
3. Be kind
4. Make good grades
5. Be happy

And 95% of the time they follow all those rules, but Jesus!!! I went all caps text mad this morning with the oldest niece that ordered that book. LOTS OF TEXTS. I knew if I spoke to her I might start yelling.

Anyway, we’re all fine now.

But just wanted to clarify, Kal isn’t the “devil”. He isn’t “evil”. I imagine him to be like Lucy on the tv show ‘Lucifer’. Super cool fun guy. OK... maybe he’s not that much fun. I would say he’s just a concept but if it’s just a concept then it’s a powerful one because theoretically it/he is keeping us all here according to RS.

Anyway, anyone who doesn’t believe in forgiveness and thinks everyone has to pay for every singles thing they’ve ever done in this life or the last million is essentially “Kal”. And there are a lot of those types. Just sucks if they are a “cult leader”.

Adam Sandler can’t go in the sun. 😂

@ Hence discrete numbers are conceptual, because we create the rules for them.
@ Everything is conceptual outside

We are outside... when we're talking of Infinity. It is only a concept
when we bandy it about like this. At this level we create rules for
infinity that match our simple understanding of it. We intuitively
grasp the notion that infinity plus one is still infinity. No bigger.

We know the infinite set of positive integers won't sum to -1/12 either.
That's why I addressed the messaging of those rules. They're needed
to provide a framework for understanding. We embrace fallacies if
they're murky.

@ But infinity is natural. The natural state of all things. Infinity is natural.
@ Numeric measurement is our conceptual overlay.

Yes, I agree. All concepts dissolve at higher levels of awareness.
Here though mystics say it's unproven until experienced inside.


Since somebody enquired in here recently


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/rfl-case-ed-charges-fortis-healthcare-promoters-shivinder-malvinder-singh-of-money-laundering-1635847-2020-01-10

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction - newton III

It’s fundamental law of the universe as old as time and never violated. Call it a natural law, call it karma, call it what you will, forgive who or what you want, makes no difference - there are consequences to your actions.

The question for me is really whether trying to throw the guru under the bus carries a far bigger karmic debt.

If so, no amount of all this baloney talk of forgiving gonna make any diffs.

My take is guru can’t change the rules of this world, but understand them best. So he knows when karma has been repaid - eg, if genuine self-acknowledgement of a wrong and sincere contrition on the part of a wrong-doer and attempt to do right.

Those preachers in denial in for da high jump.

@ARJUNA. WROTE :

""" He is God. Dont waste your life travelling paths where myriad have failed and died going into the unknown scared and alone. £

It's a long way back to having a conscience ness and human body. """

HI, . . WHAT HAPPENED TO U? 🌟

You tell me?

“Gorgey Porgey”

Thanks for answering my question. However, what’s “karma” is more far more complicated than it may appear on the surface. There is no difference in criticizing a “Master” as there is in criticizing any other human being. GSD is not my Master. He has no control over my “karmic debt” and he is not God anymore than anyone else. However, he does have control over his own desire for vengeance just as I do.

Nothing I have ever shared on this blog is the motivating reason for what I say here. Only GSD knows why (and hasn’t been shared here). I certainly don’t need his forgiveness nor do I need an apology from him. And he can be as angry and full of revenge towards me as he wants—that would basically mean things will stay status quo. That’s completely up to him. I couldn’t care less.

Based on your blind, one-sided piousness I am completely done with him. Meaning I’m done with giving him the benefit of the doubt. Instead of half-joking that he might be Kal, I’ll just settle on “he’s definitely Kal.

And “throw him under the bus” is literally laughably ironic. How about we leave it at that.

Please do share this with your beloved guru.

Since somebody enquired in here recently

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indiatoday.in/amp/india/story/rfl-case-ed-charges-fortis-healthcare-promoters-shivinder-malvinder-singh-of-money-laundering-1635847-2020-01-10

Posted by: Modi_Bhakt | January 11, 2020 at 09:53 PM

So, how much time will the brothers and Sunil serve in prison? Looks like there will definitely be others charged and sentenced. It’s sad. If only they had worked with Daiichi Sankyo from the beginning and paid the settlement. No one would be in jail or prison or about to go. They would still be financially well off and none of this media frenzy would have started.

But seeing as how a karmic debt obsessed guru was the Master mind behind all of this... I guess things played out the way they did according to his own version of karma. Let’s see what happens next. 🙄

Georgy,

How well do you know Newtonian science?

Have you ever heard of the Chaos theory?

You’re welcome.

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"The question for me is really whether trying to throw the guru under the bus carries a far bigger karmic debt."

You've brought this up several times, threatening hell fire and brimstone. That's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to get sick.

The most sincere complaints comes from the most sincere Statsangis. Everyone should speak their heart, concerns and all. No one should hide behind a threat.

Believe it or not, giving voice to these complaints is part of the process of seeing what is inside us.

And objectively, the theft of thousands of Crore is certainly a karma that cannot be escaped, although it can be forgiven.

God really does have that power. He is forgiving us for yesterday's sins every day we wake up and can breathe!

If you can forgive all powerful Gurinder, or invent excuses for his passivity during all these years his cousins were using his bank account like a prostitute for their own pleasure, then why not make excuses for the helpless Statsangis shaken and trying to honestly deal with this?

The Master comes to their aid most. The crying baby gets all the attention in a loving household, but only neglect in the toxic one.

You make your own home, Georgy.

GP,

Admit it, I’d still make a great Angel of Death.

You get car! And you get a car! And you! I’d be like Oprah dressed up as a fairy godmother—everyone gets a car and cake and of course eternal bliss. Because having lived one life in this world, is punishment enough for anyone or anything.

"Believe it or not, giving voice to these complaints is part of the process of seeing what is inside us."

I agree it does help some people who can be brave enough to see who and what they are. Unfortunately, not many people scrutinise themselves. Only a few who can deal with the difficulty of seeing the truth about our false and egoistic nature.

Dealing with life and the consequences of our actions is not an easy practice and expecting some Master or some imaginary God to come along and help is just wishful thinking. I do like to think that there is some inner positive power (the opposite of the negative power) that we can connect to which will help in this difficult journey of life, maybe even our own higher self, which is waiting for us to be more humble :)

Georgy,

Let’s be really clear about something. Aside from sharing all my concerns and criticisms, I wish no ill to befall GSD or anyone for that matter. I do not wish him harm or unhappiness or to go to jail or whatever. And that applies to how I feel about everyone. But I will share my thoughts and feelings about certain matters. And that’s not going to change.

But again, I’m not into suffering or sentences. That’s just not my thing.

Gurinder openly comments on the things people do that he thinks are wrong. The difference between us is I don’t go around pronouncing judgement and punishments for those people.

@ If you can forgive all powerful Gurinder, or invent excuses for his passivity
@ during all these years his cousins were using his bank account like a prostitute
@ for their own pleasure, then why not make excuses for the helpless Statsangis
@ shaken and trying to honestly deal with this?

What a charming metaphor... passivity, prostitutes, cousins from hell.
All this in the never ending quest to forgive the "shaken" who are
"honestly" trying to process their righteous outrage. Or is it just one
chance to vent...

Why not suggest that the "shaken" watch their mind and its impulses.
Examine their own shallow inferences concerning GSD's "passivity" or
their unproven assumptions of his "guilt", or "unfitness". Go inside to
find answers.

Otherwise., you're simply waiting for the next betrayal, the next crisis,
the next "pity party" orchestrated by the mind. Like clockwork, it'll be
followed by some self-appointed consoler-in-chief (or blog sermonizer)
saying "There, there... I'm here to help you process it."

Not that there's anything wrong with drama. It's a beloved art form.
But wouldn't you like to know what's going on before watching one
more cheesy drama. So push the usher outta the way, pull back the
curtain, and see for yourself who's pulling the levers.

@ Jen
>>Only a few who can deal with the difficulty of seeing the truth about our false and egoistic nature.<<

False and egoistic are subjective (socio- cultural) judgements like.

In nature there are not such notions.

As long these judgements are used one will never have the courage to see things as they are.

Culture is like the clothes one wears. The body underneath is just what it is, like any other thing in nature, plant, animal etc. Clothes are functional

⚜️⭐️

My Heart goes out to Nimmie
This must be an indescribable ordeal for Her

I really pray for Her to my Master
That She may be constantly in The Crown Chakra and higher
where gradually things become clear,
where nothing is the Love

777
⚜️⭐️⚜️⭐️

One. of the greatest lines (for me) in The Granth,- not sure if it is Jap Ji - , I will see tomorrow
is :
"Thousands of Warriors are Dancing althere ( 4th region),
dancing on the Breath of The Almighty"

Just wanted to tell how crazy I am

7

Seriously, Georgy, you’re getting to be more annoying than GSD himself because you are not being honest. You are a follower—a WORSHIPPER of this guru. I think you have a man crush.

Please stop trying to defend him until you care enough to get initiated OR admit who you really are.

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"But wouldn't you like to know what's going on before watching one
more cheesy drama. So push the usher outta the way, pull back the
curtain, and see for yourself who's pulling the levers."

None of that is necessary to forgive yourself and others. Why not try it?

Do you really need an act of divine intervention, divine vision to forgive?

I don't think you do.

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"Why not suggest that the "shaken" watch their mind and its impulses.
Examine their own shallow inferences concerning GSD's "passivity" or
their unproven assumptions of his "guilt", or "unfitness". Go inside to
find answers."

The reason is simple. But you missed it.

I wrote
" The most sincere complaints comes from the most sincere Satsangis."

They are not to be chided, but respected.

You and I have a different perspective.

@ "The most sincere complaints comes from the most sincere Satsangis."
@ They are not to be chided, but respected.

Perhaps the tone was "sermonizing" but I simply meant to
suggest that answers come from inside. At least, we should
condition ourself to look there first.

@ Do you really need an act of divine intervention, divine vision to forgive?
@ I don't think you do.

Agreed. I think forgiveness is itself a divine intervention.
Let us always seek it. Forgive us if we sound
preachy too.

If we are not actively handing all issues to Him as they arise, seeking His peace, which brings understanding, then we are living largely inactive and reactive lives.

“ Agreed. I think forgiveness is itself a divine intervention.”

That’s a beautiful way of putting it. We all have the Divine within us and the power to forgive is ours.

@ALL

Nothing can be determined without FULL publication
of Gurinder's 49 pages of explanation to the HC

Until that publication happens , stop arguing !

77


@ALL

Nothing can be determined without FULL publication
of Gurinder's 49 pages of explanation to the HC

Until that publication happens , stop arguing !

77


Posted by: ❌ | January 13, 2020 at 04:14 AM

The filing of the charge sheet is an important development. Covers atleast the initial laundering of 2100crores - all by Singh Bros and Sunil Godwani.

Proving this particular crime, probably one of a few others aswell, which the charge sheet attempts to do is quite independent of the filing by GSD.

Some already feels sorry for not just the Singh Bros but even their mother.

Naive, innocent, ill advised Bros.... My foot. Malvinder believed he was God's gift to mankind in his business dealing. And the mother... Well she has a checkered past anyways.

@777

>>Nothing can be determined without FULL publication of Gurinder's 49 pages of explanation to the HC<<

Even after that publication you wil know only the publication … what is behind that publication you will never know.

There were times when there were no supermarkets. In those days our family ran a small family business in a rented building in the main street of the village we lived in those days.
The owner was approached by an supermarket to buy the building. Our parents ended up in a fight before the highest court and lost their case and had to leave. Our dad knew he would lose the case why? because there were so many parties with their interests involved.
Not only the owner and our parents, but also the community counsil, the supermarket etc.

There are so many players, with huge invested interests in the background that have an say in the outcome of this financial drama, up to political parties, and the government.

See what is going on with the plans of that English prins to go to Canada. They are just an ball played with in a game … they try to extract themselves from it but these powers that play the game are very strong.

It is a religious multinational, not just individual managers that run a businesses.

Only recently we have come in a position to question authorities, people in power, due to the power of internet what they cannot control.

Who writes what here about the fair is of no influence or importance to the outcome, it is personal gratification at best

@UM

Once I tried to copy the beautiful Gopal Sing's version
, I once bought in Delhi
The Adi Granth book, 4 volumes
on the web

I started but then got a warning from google
not to do it and they changed name to °ORG

Also Now it's very difficult to obtain the pages there now

I published a few years ago
in

http://the-reason-for-creation.over-blog.com/article-i-think-so-i-am-i-am-what-116079141.html


This is the first, there are 5 pages there
It's beautiful - You may like it

Andrew would like it . . sure, Sonia Not, Spence , not sure
Arjuna YES, but Brian : an astonishing YES

777

@ 777

Which pages?
I have the Gopal version here myself.

I will read them. …. but … before hand:
For many years I would consider these books as authorities, just representing in books what they experienced. Today I consider what they write as just an testimony of an personal experience.

Once I took part in an meditation experiment. One of the participants started to have visions. She related these to her friend that had committed suicide. She came to speak with me and I advised here to leave these visions for what they were.

I told here that if she would deny the vision of an white elephant before here, because she was the only one that saw it … she would end up in an clinic. And next that, if she would state that the elephant existed because she saw it, she too would end up in the clinic.

So inner experiences are only of value or those who have them … that is how it is with all experiences, even drinking a cup of tea.

Correct um
To go blurting out to all and sundry about any inner experience anyone might have is a big no no. Thats why specifically it's discouraged at RS even since Soami Ji's days.
Don't discuss any inner or even outer experience to anyone unless it's condoned by some imperative assistance that is helpful to the receiver because most times it does not benefit the person who is giving away their gifts so cheaply for sake of some recognition.

@UM

Yes
That's right
Imagination of Love is the force that created everything
Subjectively
The Granth, even on these few pages says ir constantly

So, congrats Those who can imagine to be close to HIM
Next Simran plays an extreme powerful part in all this

It's a delight if yo can imagine well
and see HIM in everything
That makes also really humble

Gopal s translation is fabulous like Shakespeare
( a Sheik / a Pir Divine - even the Blind see the Path Sublime)

7

Another video Visit USA & TV Interview MaharaJI JI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsIUt8HsIi0&fbclid=IwAR0GtaRvXt8ToP06lw-Movsm7DA-6JKqOWRl8-rTUS6ceUHR-RH-uWWQNg0


777

Correct um
To go blurting out to all and sundry about any inner experience anyone might have is a big no no. Thats why specifically it's discouraged at RS even since Soami Ji's days.
Don't discuss any inner or even outer experience to anyone unless it's condoned by some imperative assistance that is helpful to the receiver because most times it does not benefit the person who is giving away their gifts so cheaply for sake of some recognition.

Posted by: Whodunit | January 13, 2020 at 01:28 PM

So, Julian Johnson? What was that all about?

Who—

All people at the Dera do is talk about their inner but mostly outer experiences. I’ve even talked to a few people at Hostel 6 who had really horrible inner experiences. Then again, if you’re at Hostel 6, good chances are you’re a little woohoo already.

Very few normal people at H6...

@Rethoric

There are descriptions of trails one can walk both inside and outside as orientation tools and than there are the descriptions of people actual walking those trails.

I disagree that Mystics should not share Inner experiences. Other wise, no one would ever seek, if there was nothing known to seek, that had not been shared by Seekers. Empathy for fellow travelers on the Path of Consciousness Exploration is the main reason Inner experiences are shared among Sincere Seekers. Had it not been for Julian Johnson, I would have never searched for the inner experiences Sawan Singh described in his book, Spiritual Gems, or Swamiji’s Sar Bachun Prose. But they were both dead, when I encountered their books. I then needed to hear from real live Mystics, who were kind enough to share their inner experiences, that I could do my own experiments, and compare notes with, to find out if any of the testimonies were real. I can understand why young Mystics want to keep their inner experiences secret, because of the comments by 99% of the posters here on CoC for example, that either have never had any inner experiences, or are too selfish and self gratifying to encourage their fellow travelers on the Path to keep trying, if they have not yet been successful. But why should those of us who HAVE had many types of inner experiences be silenced by the self appointed Holier Than Thou Keepers of Secrets Devotees?
https://www.unariunwisdom.com/what-happens-to-a-suicide-bomber-on-the-other-side/
Jim S.

@Jim

It’s true that so many earlier initiates were led to RS by ‘Path of the Masters’. A hitchhiker left that book in my father-in-law’s car many decades ago. He stayed up all night reading it and then declared to the family the next day that they were all going to be Satsangis! He made this declaration as he was throwing all the meat out of the fridge. A very decisive and commanding figure was he.

And that’s the rest of the story.

Who—

All people at the Dera do is talk about their inner but mostly outer experiences. I’ve even talked to a few people at Hostel 6 who had really horrible inner experiences. Then again, if you’re at Hostel 6, good chances are you’re a little woohoo already.

Very few normal people at H6...

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | January 14, 2020 at 07:22 AM

Time to demolish Hostel 6.

All westerners to stay at Serai quarters to get know what the real Dera is and how outstanding inner experiences are!!!!

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

I disagree that Mystics should not share Inner experiences. Other wise, no one would ever seek, if there was nothing known to seek, that had not been shared by Seekers. Empathy for fellow travelers on the Path of Consciousness Exploration is the main reason Inner experiences are shared among Sincere Seekers. Had it not been for Julian Johnson, I would have never searched for the inner experiences Sawan Singh described in his book, Spiritual Gems, or Swamiji’s Sar Bachun Prose. But they were both dead, when I encountered their books. I then needed to hear from real live Mystics, who were kind enough to share their inner experiences, that I could do my own experiments, and compare notes with, to find out if any of the testimonies were real. I can understand why young Mystics want to keep their inner experiences secret, because of the comments by 99% of the posters here on CoC for example, that either have never had any inner experiences, or are too selfish and self gratifying to encourage their fellow travelers on the Path to keep trying, if they have not yet been successful. But why should those of us who HAVE had many types of inner experiences be silenced by the self appointed Holier Than Thou Keepers of Secrets Devotees?
https://www.unariunwisdom.com/what-happens-to-a-suicide-bomber-on-the-other-side/
Jim S.

Posted by: Jim Sutherland | January 14, 2020 at 08:07 AM

Jim,

There are some who have the permission to share but these are exceptions.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

GSD is both fallible and dangerously cunning. He knew how to set everyone up like dominos and was careful to make sure everyone else, including his wife, would be accused first. But the ED sees through that.

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | January 13, 2020 at 12:26 PM

What an amazing guy this GSD fella is. Isn't it @Sonia.

Good that ED might see through all that he is. But do you see through how he has played you?

Forget the scorpion and the frog. In my view, It's more the spider, it's web and a struggling insect entangled in it.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Julian Johnson didn't discuss inner experience in Path of the Masters he wrote about his love and admiration for his guru but he did not disclose inner experience.

Soami Ji explained in his prose and poetry about transversing realms that he experienced for others to follow.

But at best these descriptions are feeble in portraying the real state.

Therefore later gurus have not elaborated on innermost experience and have rather emphasized to stay within the practice and don't disseminate spiritual or inner experience far and wide.

I remember reading the story about the disciple who saw his guru in everything. He would go around and hug the cow and the tree enraptured in love for his guru, he only saw his guru through his eyes everyday everywhere in every body and everything. So he would exclaim out loud about how he loved his guru in the cow and the dog and everyone and everything in his ecstatic state of devotion with his master.

When the other disciples saw this going on they went to the guru and told him what his disciple was doing going around exclaiming his ecstasy in devotion. The guru called him and asked who gave him permission to express his love for his guru externally and his reply was the guru had given him this experience. So the guru said if he was the giver he can also withdraw his love and the disciple was left depleted and destroyed by his now barren state without his heightened devoted ecstasy. He begged his master to replace his inner devoted love and that he will cherish it in his own silent capacity and not show it to the world.

And you become empty by sharing - do you not think they lord would give others knowledge if he desired . We do not have permission to shop. Keep hush and go home to the father quietly .

@ sonia chill.

What an amazing guy this GSD fella is. Isn't it @Sonia.

Good that ED might see through all that he is. But do you see through how he has played you?

Forget the scorpion and the frog. In my view, It's more the spider, it's web and a struggling insect entangled in it.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Posted by: 🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈 | January 14, 2020 at 11:22 AM

You are so incredibly obnoxious. Never ceases to amaze me how tireless GSD is in his pursuits. Always changing suits. Relentless. I keep expecting him to get worn out and just fold. But nope.

Time to reach for my lightsaber.

Ante up.


And you become empty by sharing - do you not think they lord would give others knowledge if he desired . We do not have permission to shop. Keep hush and go home to the father quietly .

@ sonia chill.

Posted by: Arjuna | January 14, 2020 at 01:40 PM

Nooooo. I don't do chill. Chill is soooo boring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28D16gVwozs

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

And WHAT is this??? --> 🤶 It looks like Mrs. Claus

Sonia Taylor or Sonya Bellarozi

a Master is like a mirror that reflects your own inner condition. Give that a thought.
This is why many people see him differently. It’s your own reflection.
The other commentor is right..,Master has got you trapped into the web and you clearly are struggling. I rarely give any advice but after some 200+ comments from you I will venture out and try to give you some much needed advise. You need to surrender.(a little cleansing would be good too) Good luck my friend.

Hi Sonia,

My thoughts when reading your comments is that you enjoy excitement, chaos and adventure. You probably find it difficult to be calm, quiet and centred. Most of us do find it difficult to sit still and quieten the mind and thats a big problem because if the mind is in control and our energy and feelings are all over the place we can never be at peace. The funny part of this is that you are so engrossed in judging Gurinder's behaviour you are unaware that you are giving your own personal power to him anyway! He's got you cornered lol.

@Jen from Austin,

Yes, well the other commenter is a 🕷

I don’t like spiders. But I do appreciate you caring enough to offer your well meaning advice.

Sakhiya Wah Ghar Sabse Nyara,
Jaha Puran Purush Humara
Jaha Nahi Sukh Dukh
Sanch Jhuth Nahi
Pap Na Pun Pasara
Nahin Din Reyn Chand Nahi Suraj,
Bina Jyoti Ujyara

Nahin Tahan Gyan Dhyan
Nahin Jap Tap
Ved Kiteb Na Bani
Karni Dharni Rehni Gehni,
Yeh Sub Jahan Hirani

Ghar Nahin Aghar Na Bahar Bhitar,
Pind Brahmand Kachu Nahin
Panch Tatva Gun Tin Nahin Tahan,
Sakhi Shabd Na Tahin

Mul Na Phul Beli Nahin Bija,
Bina Braksh Phal Sohe,
Oham Soham Ardh Urdh Nahin,
Swasa Lekhan Kou Hai

Jahan Purush Tahwan Kachu Nahin,
Kahe Kabir Hum Jana
Humri Sain Lakhe Jo Koi,
Pawe Pad Nirvana

He's got you cornered lol.
Posted by: Jen | January 14, 2020 at 04:22 PM

Brian might give Sonia an extra chapîter
She well deserves it

777

Jen from Austin,

I just took your advice. I’m assuming if I’m nice to him He’ll free me from the web. I don’t like the idea of being eaten alive. Nature... such a cruel thing.

Sakhiya Wah Ghar Sabse Nyara,
Jaha Puran Purush Humara
Jaha Nahi Sukh Dukh
Sanch Jhuth Nahi
Pap Na Pun Pasara
Nahin Din Reyn Chand Nahi Suraj,
Bina Jyoti Ujyara................

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | January 14, 2020 at 05:42 PM

A Westerners interpretation of this please.

Though am sure that the 'exclusive' house that Kabir refers to here is the mansions GSD presides over.

Cheers

.

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

Sach Khand—my beloved is in Sach Khand where nothing is. Nothing but love.

@Jen from Austin,

Yes, well the other commenter is a 🕷

Posted by: Sonia | January 14, 2020 at 05:00 PM

Much like that other 🕷️

But no worries I'll leave it that other 🕷️oops GSD to deal with you.


Cheers


🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈


“...he is exactly what somebody deserves him as.”

Clearly you’re not talking about God. I mean, not a benevolent loving God. I think what you’re talking about is a fearful, guilt-ridden “god” who created this world and imprisoned himself in it. Then he projected all his fears, worries, guilt as well as hope onto the souls he trapped inside this little snow globe.

Hey, I feel for ya. I really do. Obviously or else I wouldn’t be here... saying this.

Posted by: Sonia Taylor | January 14, 2020 at 02:18 AM

Oops was my post that complicated???? I thought it was pretty simple. It was only about GSD!!!!

Benevolent God vs Fearful God..... atleast I don't care for now. Anyways will know all about him when I meet him eventually.

Maybe even God is very much like GSD i.e. exactly what somebody deserves him as.


🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

@Jen,

Yes, I guess I do like excitement, chaos and adventure. But I like being alone too. I like being alone in my room with the comfort of knowing that someone else is in the house. And that’s when I’m happiest. But I love people and love to laugh. I think laughter unites people and keeps us humble in a fun way without having to beat ourselves up. Laughter is God’s very kind and gentle way of humbling us.

Have you always ben “Zen” and calm? And how??

Jen,

We all have our unique talents or gifts that we just seem to be born with and then everything else we have to work to cultivate. Yours seem to be calmness and contemplation. My family thinks I’m super intense and that can go both ways—exciting and sometimes frightening. But they’ll tell you the two good traits I have always had (maybe the only two truly good traits I have at all) are the ability to laugh at myself quite easily and generosity. I don’t get attached to material things at all. No sentimental attachment whatsoever. But I’m impulsive, indecisive, have no sense of time and am too outspoken. Anyway, that’s what they tell me.

Just curious (this is going to sound so 60’s and I’ve probably asked you this before) what is your sun sign? Do you know your moon sign as well?

Jen from Austin,

I just took your advice. I’m assuming if I’m nice to him He’ll free me from the web. I don’t like the idea of being eaten alive. Nature... such a cruel thing.

Posted by: Sonia | January 14, 2020 at 06:04 PM

I wonder how long with this last?? You have mentioned this in the past as well and then reverted right back to your old ways. By the way if you are lucky....He won’t free you, you yourself will cleanse from the dross of the mind.
Still wishing you luck.

Sonia,

I also am quite intense and probably thats why I try to practice being calm and peaceful and Zen like.

This will give you a shock - talk about intense! My sun sign is Scorpio and my Moon sign is Aries. I'd be interested to know what your astrological signs are?

🌜🌞💥💖🦸🦂🐸🤶😈

You’re obnoxious. Extremely obnoxious. I think your brain is full of spiders.

Give em’ an inch...

I swear to God this is the very last time I will ever mention GSD or even give him a second thought for that matter, so I’d like to end with this; GSD ONLY cares about himself. He has no part to play in my life. Not now. Not ever.

A scorpion is a scorpion.

Tick tick tick tock

That’s how easily the mind of some are swayed. Never really been the right path for them to begin with I suspect. Much better they go for mental support in AA group or something with smoochie-smoochie huggy-huggy. Better too for the poor guru who don’t need to be nailed to the cross for no reason again.

Good News Translation
“What I am telling you in the dark you must repeat in broad daylight, and what you have heard in private you must announce from the housetops. “ Matthew 10:27.
I consider myself a Gnostic Christian Spiritist, first, and foremost, which is why I will always believe,....”It pleased God
by the foolishness of PREACHING to save them that believe.” 1 Corinthians 1:21.
I never agreed to become a Mute before being iniated in to Sant Mat.
“The spirit of man is the Candle of The Lord.” Proverbs 20:27. The role function of both the Old and New Testament Bible of the Prophets are not to be mystics or seers, to predict the future, but to be God’s Messengers to the people to give warnings or comforts.
“ A man’s Gift makes room for him, and brings him before great men.” Ephesians 4:8, 11
Jim S.

Sonia
Give us The day - hour/minute Location
and we will analyse You quantum_like

Once in Beas, Ishwar's father Lekh asked me to
produce his chart - Once at home I did it with pleasure
I used a 2 apartments A/C IBM 370 Mainframe at the time


77

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