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December 16, 2019


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Where am I now, X17?


BTW, I stopped following the Dhillon/Singh situation several months ago. I heard that Shivinder and Malvinder went to jail for a short time? Are they still in jail (and what kind of jail)? Have they been formally sentenced yet? Will the Dhillons still have to go back to court?

Just thought you might know.

Sonia, I don't read about that drama until some big news is posted by Brian or someone else leaves a link here.

You're right that the brothers spent some time in jail but I'm guessing nothing much has happened otherwise lately. Maybe they've found ways to recover funds, or maybe they're all royally screwed. We'll find out soon enough.

My main concern right now is to enjoy clove cigarettes just enough but without getting addicted and having to suffer withdrawal in a few weeks when I stop smoking them. Pray for me!

>>It kind of freaks me out. It’s like nobody dies having all the answers. It’s like imperfection is the most natural thing—perhaps more natural than perfection.<<

Imaging Aliens have decided to save a part of our species because they found out about our Crown Chakras and are flabbergasted

They might decide to assist the non-cruel centers

Imagine GSD knows that and much more. . . .

@Sonia , you told us :
“” To the point where I just wanted to run to my room (and I did) and curl up in my bed and just stare at the wall. “”
Why then not repeat the words , . . try to heat the Shabd, Why not?

Charan started each Satsang with:
Everybody is un happy
Because they love temporal things which will be taken away
All of them
So, try to be attached/ LOVE a delicious thing which is eternal
And will not taken away


Sell your RUSTY bicycle and take the Lamborghini


777: "...Aliens have decided to save a part of our species" ... "Imagine GSD knows that and much more."

Yep them aliens are watching us and what's happening on this crazy little planet and GSD is also aware of overpopulation and the huge problems humans are facing in the future. Probably why there are so many new buildings being constructed at the Dera. Just my thoughts.

Jesse, I will pray for you!!
LOL... I hate cigarettes (that's sort of a lie). In my mid-twenties I smoked clove cigarettes, then on and off a little after that -- never a lot and never smoked any other type of cigarette because I hate the smell. My husband struggles with smoking. He quits and starts and quits and starts. That's probably his only real weakness (other than me... haha, just kidding).

Yes! I still love the smell of cloves!! Here you can only find them at specialty stores or gas stations owned by Indians. I'm assuming they must be popular in India. They don't have as much nicotine as regular cigarettes but are probably worse for your lungs because of the cloves.

Anyway, the easiest way to quit is to buy those nicotine mints--they come in a blue container and are actually more enjoyable than the nicotine high you get from cigarettes. And it's pretty easy to wean yourself off of them.

Because I care:

In case some people might be wondering, is there anything she hasn't done? I will make a full confession here: I've never killed anyone. And I've never done heroine or meth or crack. So, yay me...

I had an adderall prescription for a few years - 2 years of no sleeping... Apparently it's banned in every single country in the world except for America where we give them to kids like candy. I quit Adderall after my first trip to the Dera after I had a meltdown there (because that's what people do at the Dera!!! lol). The doctors at Beas hospital were like, " Yeah.... no." Then they only let me take half the dosage and a few months after I got home I was completely off of it.

That's the thing about Gurinder, he doesn't want me to have any fun at all!!!

That's the thing about Gurinder, he doesn't want me to have any fun at all!!!

Posted by: Sonya | December 21, 2019 at 04:12 PM

Hahahaha funniest thing I’ve read today.

God Real., exists vs. We are not. (. apart from °°)

So true

Even when our chaurasi continues during a billion big bangs
we are so temporal

After being evaluated into the God Status
we will only remember the tiny or big sparks°° of LOVE

Pakistani Professor Junaid Hafeez Receives Death Penalty for Supposed Blasphemy

DECEMBER 22, 2019
After several years of solitary confinement, 33-year-old Junaid Hafeez has been sentenced to death by a Pakistani court for the fictional crime of blasphemy.

Hafeez used to teach English at Bahauddin Zakariya University in Multan. He was a popular professor, but his progressive views didn’t go over well with Islamic groups and a student who soon accused him of insulting the Prophet Muhammad. He was quickly arrested on charges that he used a pseudonym to talk smack about Muhammad’s wives online.

His lawyers haven’t fared well either. One was shot dead even after threats were made against him in the courtroom. (Those who made the threats were not charged with any crimes.)

So it’s no wonder that Hafeez’s attempts at justice have failed.

The sentence was delivered by a court in the Central Jail in Multan, where Mr Hafeez was being held.

Prosecution lawyers, meanwhile, distributed sweets to their colleagues, who chanted “Allahu akbar” and “death to blasphemers”.

Amnesty International said the verdict was “a gross miscarriage of justice” and described it as “extremely disappointing and surprising”.
His current lawyer says the ruling will be appealed, but there’s little chance that this verdict will be overturned.

Asad Jamal, Hafeez’s lawyer, told Reuters news agency that he would appeal against the ruling in a higher court.

“There can’t be a fair trial in blasphemy cases in Pakistan,” Jamal said. “We have a spineless system. No one can stand up to a blasphemy charge.”


Just curious why you posted this? It’s sad news and CRAZY news.

Are you implying there are grave consequences for speaking out against RSSB and GSD?


Like I said, it’s a great article and people need to know about this but seems out of left field for you.

Maybe I’m being paranoid (please tell me I’m being paranoid) but if not, I’m totally done w/RS.

When I posted a criticism about Gurinder in reply to Gurus Inc they posted a comment right after with a very old post of fake news about Brian’s death. Totally out of context. Which leads me to wonder is this what RS does—thinly veiled threats. Like Malvinder alleged.

Des hommes et des dieux
2010 French drama film. A must see.

Ram Dass of Be Here Now died today.


Well, Ram Dass had a good run... No one lives here forever. 🙏


Holy shit. I was gonna write that I hope Manjit returns to balance out the comments with a more academic perspective. And here he has just left a comment.

Miracle of the ascended masters??

And about miracles, is there anyone who has read the classic rssb books more recently than 2007 who can remember all the miracles attributed to the masters?

I can only think of Sawans snake bite, his appearing in New York floating above some guys head, and Charan stopping a storm simply by glancing at it.

But there are a few more that might make Mr/Ms Om Emoji upset, and I'd like him to know the truth. It's like finding out a lover is cheating in that it sucks to hear, but it's best to be aware.

Well, Gurinder said in an evening meeting at Dera in February 2013 that he can walk through doors. He said he has “powers” that we could all develop if we did our meditation 🧘‍♀️ “properly”.

I’m not sure if walking through doors or making yourself invisible (he does that too apparently) qualifies as “miracles”. I put miracles in the category of helping people and “magic” in the David Blane party tricks category.

Well, Gurinder said in an evening meeting at Dera in February 2013 that he can walk through doors. He said he has “powers” that we could all develop if we did our meditation 🧘‍♀️ “properly”.

I’m not sure if walking through doors or making yourself invisible (he does that too apparently) qualifies as “miracles”. I put miracles in the category of helping people and “magic” in the David Blane party tricks category.

Posted by: Sonia | December 23, 2019 at 11:06 PM

And this is probably powers your get at what 2nd chakra...... @777 or some other well read ex-er like Jesse can confirm. Basically just answer at what stage does one have Riddi Siddi at his/her disposal and how lowly is this level compared to Sachkhand!!!!

And yes it's good to see ex-ers coming out to defend Santmat.


Not sure what your point is. Just being objective here... Believe it or not it is possible for an ex-er to talk about RS without attacking it. It’s not all bad. Some things are just curious. It’s a journey.

And I had to look up Riddi Siddi because I had no idea what that was. I still don’t understand it or what you mean by it. 🧐

OMG, why don’t all RSSB gurus stay in Sach Khand?

MS: Happy Christmas
SS: Peace and goodwill to all
SG: Harumph!

GSD: They should celebrate MY birthday

@ sonia

Its black magic demons for your bidding as you have control over them but there is a terrible price to pay in the end.

Imagine if you have a pole in your garden . You could ask the demon to go up and then down all day. And it would . Hope it helps. RS people ain't supposed to do it

And I had to look up Riddi Siddi because I had no idea what that was. I still don’t understand it or what you mean by it. 🧐

Posted by: Sonia | December 24, 2019 at 02:23 AM

Riddhi Siddhi - powers to perform miracles which individuals gain on reaching not sure maybe the first or second chakra (me and my limited understanding unlike @Jesse here. LOL) ..... But a stage which is way below even Trikuti. Miracles like healing, fulfilling wishes etc.

In Santmat, Masters forbade disciples to use these.

Serendipities > there are many

Off Gurinder can walk through a planet, a star and multi position
Himself if Charan tells Him to do so
which is regular
But HE will never act on His Own
HE can reproduce the Big Bang with a minor changement
just for one Lover
or future lover
Neither there will be new negative karma created

Satsangi's body / mind functions
go in meditation above the eyes where no hocus pocus exist
The Aim is to be thought-less
After that a Satsang can remain in that state all His Life
even while playing chess, football, love whatever
as long as He stays in Love with His Master

Beautiful Lamborghini


Wow. I don’t even make my dog do tricks or teach him commands. Don’t need to—he’s very intuitive. 😆

I don’t want to have to “control” anyone or anything. So bizarre.

But thanks for the clarification and have a wonderful Christmas Eve!!!!

Let me test my magic on the font.

Did it work?


in 50 US Cities

That's around 10% per year


Is this available for UK & EU somewhere?

How about the 14th?

Jumping jivatma! Did I undo all the bolds and italics ever??? My magick is powerful indeed!


You’re hilarious. Either Brian fixed it or your sorcery is powerful over the digital world.

Anami and Sonia, I'm sorry to burst in with a dose of reality, but I disabled the ability to add HTML commands to comments a few days ago.

The reason is that when someone doesn't properly use HTML, such as by failing to end a bold or italics command, then following comments are published in bold, italics, or whatever. Then I have to find the original comment that set off the HTML mistake and edit out the HTML.

Since HTML commands really aren't necessary in comments -- they just add emphasis to parts -- I figured it was easiest to simply not allow HTML, rather than fix HTML mistakes. I'm no expert in HTML myself, which was another reason to disable this feature.


Glad you fixed. I was worried I had broken the site. 😬

Sonia said

Admit it, you’re in love with Gurinder”

Totally in love 😍

Ps sorry to chime in

Posted by: Chela | December 28, 2019 at 02:16 PM

I’m amazed how many people read the posts and comments on this site without commenting. And then every now in then “chime in”.

My heart goes out to Gurinder for the loss of his wife. It really does. But then I remember he has millions of adoring fans and probably received thousands of condolences. Even through the saddest of circumstances he gets all this love. I think he’ll be OK.

It’s different when one of us regular people lose our loved ones...

My Father in Law ( N.I. ) really literally , "shamelessly" cried his lungs out for months
and consequently lost his voice when his wife ( I. ) died. Could only whisper

My wife ( I.) , her whole life thinking thinking : "I wouldn't survive that, .. .. I would die too" , felt blessed at that event,
when she saw Huzur Charan Maharaji enveloping the body plus bed of her mother
in HIS special degree etheric Light form ( usable on earth as I have explained here in a comment ) and
she still is in Love

Gurinder & family was weren't without such help, . . . I m so sure

No iota of this Path has changed through the ages for HIS Lovers

neither have the criticasters


BTW : I think when Jesus heated the money launders ,
that was against the SEC rules


God is not
and his IQ is zero

S/HE. is only in LOVE

We are as well


Hi Sonia,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this blog, it's very authentic and courageous of you!! :)

If you don't mind, I just wanted to share my thoughts about a couple of comments you've made recently as I think they're important issues you raised. These are just my own generalised thoughts shared out loud rather than specifically about or aimed directly at you.

You wrote in the "belonging" thread: "OK, I found this list of spiritual teachers because I’m “guru shopping”

I have to say, one very remarkable thing that strikes me about the vast majority of people who've ever had any significant association with RS gurus, and I mean both current and "exer" believers, is this very strong tendency to outsource our intellectual, moral and "spiritual" responsibility onto an external, idealised idol - to put another human being onto an impossible pedestal and to absolve ourselves of the burden of ever directly knowing, understanding or being that what we gossip about here on blogs like this, by pretending that human being has done it all on our behalf for us and that our faith in this will suffice.

This idolisation of a mundane human being is obvious to see in the average RS religious follower, as is evidenced in the mostly incoherent, confused & contradictory apologism we read in the comments section on this blog. Perhaps less obvious to see it is in the comments of the so-called "exers" - it spans from those who claim to no longer believe in RS or the guru, but evidently hold a whole matrix of unexamined and un-conscious beliefs they have picked up from RS doctrine and which obviously influences their entire view of "spirituality" or "mysticism", to those who claim to have achieved some sort of "liberation" from RS dogma's duality, but in their interactions with Gurinder believe they are dealing with some sort of powerful mystic, to those who now are deeply critical, even spiteful towards RS and the gurus, yet still idolise and project their own inner being and thoughts upon another idealised and idolised human being. I first noticed this with some of the comments David Lane used to receive from exers......more recently & exaggeratedly I notice it here with Brian, with some of the lavish praise he receives from many, imo is incoherent and disconnected from the actuality and reality of things. Pure projection. Once, they projected magical wisdom and understanding on a turbaned guy from the punjab, now they project magical wisdom and understanding upon some dude from Colorado (or wherever!).

Point being is this, rather than shopping for "gurus" wouldn't it be a more worthwhile task to understand yourself first? There's millions of remedies out there of varying efficacy sold by persons of varying repute, from genuine healers to snake oil salesmen......but until you understand the malady none of these remedies will cure anything, and very, very, very rarely (nigh on impossible in today's world, imo) will you find a healer (guru) able to both diagnose and prescribe a "cure" that is purely relevant to YOU and your unique individual circumstances and not based around their own "product", which may or may not be what is suitable for any given individual. Most "gurus" are one-trick ponies. The worst gurus are one-trick ponies like Gurinder, who have so many millions of followers that any semblance of individually relevant advice and guidance even with that one-trick being just a bad joke (beyond the imagined "magical" help through the ether, which of course can theoretically be provided by Ganesha just as much as any impersonal "living guru" sat on the dais).

We all know all the arguments in favour of a "living teacher", and there are even more arguments besides those that hardly anybody knows! But even if the reality is many of those arguments are obviated when the guru has millions of followers (you may as well have Ganesha as a guru), I think ultimately this now-outdated obsession and fetishisation of the "guru" is clearly detrimental and has far more potential to cause harm than benefit, and this has been demonstrated over and over again in the last few decades with "guru" and "guru" being outed for a variety of distinctly un-guru like behaviour. Even the sacrosanct RSSB is now headed by somebody any and every impartial person would consider to be a criminal and a thug, somebody who's basic human decency is in question, let alone laughably absurd and ridiculous claims of any sort of "perfect living master" credentials.

There are friends, peers, guides, but it's time to ditch the ridiculous and out-dated notion of the "satguru". This magical thinking has led to nothing but vast swathes of people who have realised nothing, understood nothing, know nothing, experienced nothing and are left with nothing except incoherent magical beliefs and stories about their beloved "Godman" (a religion by any other name....). PS - by "nothing", I mean nothing of any significance. I do not take synchronicities, miracles, dualistic visions, pleasurable experiences in the presence of the guru etc etc as especially significant. Even in RS, all this is considered maya. How many followers of RS have transcended this? Indeed, it appears to me RS followers do not transcend, but fetishise this!

Take back responsibility, stand on your own two feet.....mysticism, exploring consciousness, reality, the mystery of existence etc is a path of intense and immense bravery, not a path of outsourcing all our responsibility to somebody else! And those who are happy to take that responsibility, claiming to take your karma or promise you heaven or what not....now this is a big one, pay attention, this is deeper than it seems.......are CONMEN, confidence-tricksters, manipulators, those who will take credit for your own inner mysteries.

Sonia wrote: "Mixing LSD with shrooms was the single stupidest thing I’ve ever done in my entire life. It’s what got me to completely stop experimenting with drugs altogether. It was a HORRIBLE trip. I’m very liberal with my nieces and was the same way with my step-daughter when she was younger but I did my best to scare them away from using psychedelics."

Hi Sonia, that's interesting. I have fair bit of knowledge and experience regarding this and I actually find it quite sad that these things can be so badly misrepresented by those who do not treat these substances with due respect.

Set and setting is a famous mantra when it comes to using psychedelics.....why were you mixing LSD and mushrooms (I have taken both plenty of times, but never together for eg. Maybe someday :) ? How many times had you done them before, who were you with, where were you, how did you prepare, did you have a guide etc?

You will excuse me if I presume the answer to many if not all of these isn't very "positive", considered, thought-out, planned etc? Just going off the mixing LSD and mushroom thing.....unless you had taken these both separately at relatively high doses and had absolutely nothing but a glowing experience, there is absolutely no reason you should be taking both together?! :-o

I feel saddened by this conversation because we have here another misrepresentation based on misguided usage of something I know to be of profound and genuinely deep healing potential. Here on a forum where the main topic of discussion is just another disgraced and fraudulent Indian Baba with a turban, selling an incorrect and outdated dogma and doctrine, whose meditation system only guarantees abject failure in 99.9% of practitioners (where a semi-lucid dream is considered a remarkable "spiritual experience). In contrast, entheogens - skillfully used - can almost guarantee genuine, immediate deep "mystical" encounters and a variety of healing.

You mention very bravely in another thread your issues with alcohol - a truly nasty & unpleasant drug that can cause significant emotional, psychological and physical health issues. I have seen it up close and personal too many times.

Here's what mushrooms, skillfully used, can do. Again, I have seen up close and personal the benefits of psilocybin mushrooms, and it is undeniable:






Etc etc There is literally hundreds of articles out there.

It is said the guy who started AA, I forget his name, had his "spiritual encounter" with a "higher being" whilst under the influence of LSD.....and Alcoholics Anonymous was born, if I recall correctly.

Again, I just want to emphasise, the skillful use of entheogens, treated, actually, with respect and reverence, in the right set and setting, can be profoundly healing of a wide variety of psychological issues.

What to say of the "Divine" that can be encountered on extremely high doses? Nothing. There is literally nothing any RS satsangi has ever experienced that isn't "transcended" by high dose magic mushroom journeys. (actually, that's a challenge.....anyone thinks they know anything about "inner experiences", come sit with me and take 7g+ and then afterwards we talk about your gurus and dualistic path :)

In a video I think Dungeness posted of Ishwar Puri, Puri mentions some stock-cliché statements about the vacuity and lack of lasti ng change engendered by psychedelics.

I ask Puri pay more attention to reality than the cliched view he has in his head.

Who is changing both themselves and the world? Is it RS satsangis and their new spiritual centre in the west Puri is trying to build? Or is that just an aging bunch of ex-hippies in their 60s and older, along with the religious-minded family members with generations of association with RS blindly coming along to satsang?

Or are the people most changed, most able to live simple lives full of joy and compassion, those who most influence society and culture for the better......those who have drunk deepest from the well of entheogens?

From the IT revolution forged in the acid soaked silicon valley, to movie makers, music makers, TV show makers etc......all soaked, deeply, deeply soaked, in acid, psilocybin, DMT and ayahuasca.

Who are the environmentalists, "social justice warriors", vegans etc? Damn, pay attention Puri.....it's all deeply soaked in psychedelics, not the bakwas satsangs of Sawan!!

Somebody here recently reported that when they mentioned how bad dairy is to Gurinder, he dismissed it by saying "but I love my dairy".

How very witty he is. But let that sink in, people. Just let those words, and what they signify, sink in.

"But I love my dairy".

And that is enough for me to dismiss your insinuations of suffering, of karma etc. Remember back to a time when you perhaps ate meat (not all the religious followers who grew up with this family religion).......did any of you consider dismissing the ethical and/or "spiritual" arguments with "but I love beefburgers"? Coz that's what your guru allegedly did.

And that's why Puri's wrong. People become like robots, automatons when they follow a religion like RS. They will judge the sins of meat, because they have been indoctrinated to do so. But when logic, reason, facts are used to argue the ethics of something the religion says is okay (based as it is on medieval logic & reality), it is dismissed just as easily as saying "but I love my dairy". Oh, that's okay then.

Entheogens, on the other hand, offer a real, living, vibrant immediacy to our existence. There is no place to lie or to hide. If we love, then we love, if we don't, then we don't. No pretending, no hiding behind medieval dogmas and doctrines. There is a reason why so, so, so many people who have gone deep into mushrooms, Ayahuasca, DMT or LSD become vegetarian or vegan, spontaneously and without threat of reincarnation or promise of eternal orgasms in sach khand.......but just out of a spontaneous sense of love, compassion and connection.

Satgurus vs Entheogens.

One is fake, the other is the real.

Use intelligence and discrimination.

I don't take mind altering drugs. I would be completely off the planet if I did!

Bill Hicks...

“Today a young man on acid realised that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves”.

Before one knows one deals with LSD etc in the same way as with a guru
To stand on ones own legs .. to be a free human being .. might not be that easy and only available for some mystics who are struck by fate o be come free.

How does one deal with the things that appear before the mind, or in the mind.
We have no controll over it.
We have no knowledge about the workings of the mind

Maybe the appearance of coming and going in the consciousness, like clouds, is the best to arrive at....just being aware of it without understanding

@OMG, why don’t all RSSB gurus stay in Sach Khand?

I think they do since S.K. is inside. It's just another level of
awareness according to mystics.

The Riddhis and Siddhis are merely cool sideshows when
sightseeing on lower planes. You can beam down there
easily with a shift of attention according to the manual.
No entheogens needed.

P.S. I have no experiential proof of any of this. Hm, maybe
more dairy in the diet would help.

Yet another relevant and useful contribution from Manjit imo. I also think Sonia does indeed wear her heart on her sleeve and is processing her RSSB/GSD stuff on this blog more than most.

As Manjit says many commentators here (me included) continue to be influenced by decades of belief in what now is a religious system loaded like many others with outmoded dogma - of use to us in the past, but now arguably not.

Question is what to do? Clearly one has to be careful about throwing one’s focus into yet another guru trip, when it seems clear a great number of ‘them’ have fallen off the perch for one reason or another. I was talking with a friend yesterday about some of the pod casts/conversations Sam Harris has on his App. I have not heard them but my friend discussed how various interviewees, mostly mindfulness practitioners, were endeavouring to develop criteria people could use to assess competency of teachers and how easy it is for the mind to gain control when one gets in a position of ‘knowing more than others’.

In regards to the use of psychedelics, which I have little experience (but interest) I really enjoyed reading Michael Pollan’s book ‘How to Change your MInd’ - in particular its discussions of the similarities psychedelic experiences have with those resulting from deep meditation etc. Also Pollan goes into some depth re the medical and healing benefits of the likes of psilocybin.

And although he was clearly another ‘Guru’ I like what Nisargadatta had to say about the need for us to grow up and stand on our own two feet:
"You must find your own way. Unless you find it yourself, it will not be your own way and will take you nowhere.”

Best wishes to all and the planet.

Great reactions Jen !

It all comes to "where we are, . . . we shall go"
I like it!

Cab somebody post a "drawing" of the so called Sauron/Mordor
statues , Arjuna asked about
I also like to hear when they were erected - 2013?
Little amazed because the new architecture abroad like Bankok
Toronto, and many other centers , . .they give me Darshan (in_a_way)

On behalf of the 3,5 million initiated, feeling fine, . .
myself (83) , my wife (72) were never disappointed
and everything this Path promised came forth! - EVERYTHING
3. Lives in a row, . . One to go!

I guess we have 9 exers now - they make much noise

BTW: The only good I did was like Tucson 24/7. Simran -
and the do not hurt stuff OFc

What an ill-advise for Sonia! -
Even Leary wouldn't agree
Horreur say the French here


”The Riddhis and Siddhis are merely cool sideshows when
sightseeing on lower planes. You can beam down there
easily with a shift of attention according to the manual.
No entheogens needed.”

Posted by: Dungeness | December 29, 2019 at 07:03 PM


Hi Manjit,

Thanks so much for your long comment. I will reply when I get home... I’ve been out and it’s a pain to type up a long response on my iPhone.

Thanks for the links too. My other best friend (I only have 2 lol) Jack (he’s gay and that is why I love him 😍). He’s so cool. We were roommates in 4 different states over 15 years. Anyway, we would drop acid and go to work... stupid stuff like that. I’ll share details and more with you later. But here’s a cool link he sent me today that you might appreciate: https://www.freethink.com/articles/studying-psychedelic-research-johns-hopkins

You know, since this is open thread and I can share whatever I want here, I want to get this off my chest (so to speak). When I was in RS I had severe panic disorder and in order to treat it the doctors had to put me on 4 different medications (because it was really, really bad). And because of the meds I couldn’t have kids—I mean I could have theoretically but it would have been way too dangerous. Well, when I left I was 46 and the panic attacks stopped. I no longer have panic disorder or even a hint of panic or anxiety attacks. But it’s a HUGE trigger for me and is what really triggered me to leave. I love kids. I adore my step-grand kids. I really do but when they were born it was so incredibly painful for me. It doesn’t change the fact that I love them. It just puts me in a total rage against RS Sant Mat. And now my youngest brother is having his first kid (a baby girl) in a few months. I know that her birth is going to send me into another rage again against RS. But it won’t change how much I love her. I adore children. I always have and always wanted my own. People say I can’t blame a cult for me not having kids... but I think I can. I can forgive ANYTHING. And I mean absolutely ANYTHING but I can’t forgive that. At least not yet. Not sure if I ever will.

And for anyone who has been the victim of cult ideology: https://youtu.be/zSAow-RRQuI

@ 777

If god is love. I don't see much if it in RSSB. I dont believe anymore as there is nothing to believe.

Key point here - nothing to believe in. God has created this. How sad. To allow his souls pain. Begs the question what is god? Insecure and attention seeking like people on instragram. He ain't done me any favours.

Think we have to very careful.making statements on here that cannot be validated.

Sonia Hi
In fact you hate the way you are placed in this universe actually
Now you hate the fireman who came for rescue
I understand
The Truth is that you are the Maker of the Universe
but forgot
Who else U could be ?


Yes, I’m very open and I do wear my heart on my sleeves.

I think I’m going to start an anti-RSSB website so that I can stop bitching about it here. People need to know the truth about this organization and it’s current leader. Perhaps it would give victims who have been intimidated and/or threatened about telling their stories. It’s a very powerful and corrupt organization.

Manjit is sort of correct about entheogens. I've never used substances intentionally for spiritual purposes, but part of my belief in a God of some sort stems from experiences I had when I used LSD.

Though there are some who have really negative experiences from using, and often misusing or failing to understand themselves before using entheogens, many immediately feel the start of a healing process, especially when using things like ayahuasca and mushrooms. And if you need an authority figure, there are shamans who can guide you. They don't ask to be worshiped either, because they all worship the same God without a wealthy and talkative intermediary.

Sonia about starting an "anti-RSSB" website, I can't help thinking why are you still so attached and still so angry? Let it go girl, its like you are still a teenager who was so enamoured with someone and so confused now because your feelings have been hurt, but if only you can move on and let it go!

Think about all the religions in the world and so many people who are dependent on their beliefs and their faith and its mostly all nonsense. There are so many religious, powerful and corrupt organisations and the best we can do is not get involved and simply avoid them. But then, if you want to save the world, if thats your mission in life, good luck...

RSSB as an organisation is corrupt. GSD is corrupt. No principles. No morals.

No hope for anyone who thinks it is a spiritual path.

Before GSD the gurus had morals. Now it’s out of control.

The list of wrongdoings is endless.

I read ‘The Wind is My Mother’ about a Lakota medicine man/shaman a few months after leaving Dera last December. It gave me a lot of peace. It was the first realization I had after leaving RSS last year that there actually are powerful, kind and loving guides/teachers in this world.

I’m still hesitant about using entheogens. Although the last experience I had was the only real bad trip. And that’s when I took mushrooms laced with LSD that I got from my brother’s friend who was in High School. 🙄 And I took those with a friend who had never taken any kind of entheogens before. And we were both in a strange apartment that belonged to one of his friends. So, hurray for stupid decisions. 🙌


GSD is not a fireman and he didn’t come here to save me. He needs to find a backup RS chief since Shivi is in jail and GSD is not in good health. The only kind of person that would take that position today is a narcissistic egomaniac. There are no shortage of them in RSSB so perhaps he should post some Help Wanted fliers at the Dera. 😆


RSSB will survive Nations
Time is short
Tulsi knew already who the Lady from Nepal (to be born in the UK)
, . . will be
telling us to Love better, . . easier

If U haven't better ?
You started this
You will end it (your Maya attachment)
Good Luck
Do the words - They can stop th thoughts_barriers!



Again such good advise really WOW


I really don’t give a 💩. GSD can do whatever he wants in his hemisphere. I have my own life to live.

Tomorrow the numbers change.
A New Year in a new decade.
Resolutions will be made to improve our Mind, Body and Spirit. Stop smoking, lose weight, exercise, etc. In consequence, our health and well being will improve too. This new found direction we have chosen will give us a greater balance in life. No more struggling with ourselves and waging war with our internal dialogue.
Peace and Happiness to all.
Happy New Year in the New Decade 😍

Hey 777! I hope you - and all the lovely readers here on Brian's blog - are having a lovely Christmas!!

You wrote: "Manjit What an ill-advise for Sonia! -Even Leary wouldn't agree Horreur say the French here"

Which advice would that be exactly, 777? The only "advice" I even came remotely close to giving to Sonia - who, btw, seems to me more than capable of making her own decisions in life - was to perhaps spend some time considering what her needs were (understanding your own self) before going out to purchase a product (getting involved with another "guru"). Is that really so "Horreur" fic? Ultimately, dependency of any sort is unhealthy and surely cannot be the goal or culmination of any healthy path? Beware those cults and religions that ultimately disempower your very own being under the guise of "surrender to the guru".

But I suspect that is not the "Horreur" you refer to? I think perhaps you have misread my generalised comments about the factual & scientifically demonstrated benefits of "psychedelics" with issues like alcohol addiction and why it is an unfair misrepresentation to tarnish them as dangerous or "horrific" based on unsafe and reckless use. That is like saying combine harvesters are dangerous because a kid of 16 once got drunk, hot wired a harvester, fell out of it whilst it was moving and was killed by the blades. Yes, combine harvesters can be dangerous, but if used skillfully they have the potential to harvest enough food to feed millions with little to no harm caused to anyone. You get the gist of the analogy.

You "horreur" is hyper-selective, even if it is based on a misreading of my post where no advice was given to Sonia regarding psychedelics at all (I would be more impressed if you could read and understand my post accurately before commenting, rathar than your alleged "predictions" coming true about regularly occurring geological phenomena, and lets get even more selective and not mention the endless other "predictions" and "intuitions" I've seen you make that were simply untrue! Two sayings come to mind when it comes to your "predictions", firstly "throw enough shit at the walls, something will eventually stick" & "shit or get off the toilet". Basically, a lot of shit comes to mind. Either make a clear, unambiguous "prediction" about something impossible to predict or pick up on news that comes true within 24 hours, or stop pretending! :)

Actually, I find that basically covers the entire RS believers mindset; "selective ideation", entirely predictable, pre-programmed loops of conceptual thought. There is no room for engaging with reality as it is, or having spontaneous, independent thoughts and feelings....your beliefs, ideas, concepts, REALITY have all been MAPPED out for you already. And now you're boxed in and living in a dusty, smelly, moth-eaten map. Oh dear.

Regarding this selective discrimination of RS believers and seeing as it's the season of good-will, I do actually have some advice for the esteemed readers of this blog: I believe Charan Singh said/wrote something along the lines of "May your love of the form culminate in the love of the formless".

Not many RS satsangis really understand this imo. I echo the sentiment. People are looking for a guru or spiritual path, this is the "form", but it doesn't need to be a physical human being. The arguments in favour of a "living guru" are well known and well worn in RS. The arguments not in favour of a "perfect living master", which have proliferated beyond imagination as we approach 2020, are never ever discussed. On a practical level, a valuable "guide" or "guru" would be one that knows and interacts with their students on a personal & intimate level. This is impossible within RS as it has too many followers, so the vast majority of the legitimate reasons for having a living guru are not actually possible within RSSB. The only benefit remains that of a "symbolic" figure for our bhakti and devotion.....which of course is absolutely no different to having ANY past, mythical or real guru or god/dess as a symbolic figure for our devotion. Do not forget, in eastern mystical philosophy form equals maya or illusion.....whatever form that may be, "perfect living master" or your "inner Ganesha". I actually think the fact that the relationship with the RSSB guru is impersonal and no different from a relationship with Ganesha is a very, very good thing. I am left with the impression knowing the real Gurinder behind the symbol that we project our own divinity and goodness on would not necessarily be as magical an experience as one would hope it to be.

One could write for years on the various arguments, pro and con, of the different types of gurus or guides and the relative benefits or dangers of each for us here in the west coming up to the year 2020.

But the limitations of RSSB's focus on the "form" and it's negative "spiritual" impact on it's followers should be clear. We see evidence of it here on this forum every day with the comments by RSSB's biggest and best critics - the RS apologists & defenders.

All the subtle and not so subtle metaphysical threats towards ONLY critics of Gurinder and RSSB. Commentators like yourself, One Initiated, Georgy Porgy and many others insinuate negative consequences for the critics, in between your hypocritical talk of love. This is a corruption, a degeneration of REAL love, all because it is focused and fetishised upon one form, one mundane human being. It's like when, just a few short weeks or months before the Gurinder scandals broke, One Initiated told me I "would eat shit, and eat it soon" because I was mildly critical of RSSB, to which Spence in support of One Initiated made inferences about MY mental health. :-/

Or how about the story of a once satsang speaker with a deep connection to RSSB going back many decades who deeply loves and respects Gurinder and has had many discussions with him at the mic, attending a public satsang where for no reasonable reason is physically assaulted, has his glasses broken and is subjected to deeply sinister behaviour by Gurinder's intimate cronies, and is then lied about by all those concerned including Gurinder (according to a report here). Behaviour that, here in the UK, if it had occurred in any retail store, public space or sporting event etc would be considered an absolute scandal, headline news at the "horreurfic" behaviour of said football club, retail store etc, so utterly disgraceful and disproportionate it was.

But when it happens at the beloved RS "Perfect Living Masters" satsang, how do the satsangis react? To ridicule and tease that life-long satsangi and label the thugs and criminals in question "The Magnificent Seven", and make that on-going joke the take away lesson. And an absolute joke it is, too.

Bravo, satsangis, bravo. Mind yourselves, your decency is showing.

Your love of the form has corrupted you.

I have a love for the formless. What that means is I do not prefer one form over another. I do not wish anyone who criticises me, my experiences or my ideas to "eat shit and eat it soon". I genuinely, sincerely and deep down wish for nothing but peace, love, happiness and joy to everyone I have ever interacted with in real life or online. The more anyone may criticise me or do me an injustice, the more I wish them peace, love, happiness etc. To me this seems like nothing remarkable, a kind of basic & natural human decency. But when I see religious people, like RS satsangis, wishing negative karmic consequences for merely questioning or criticising their guru or path (of course, it's okay to question or criticise OTHER "false" gurus, right RSSB satsangis? Such as the criticisms 777 has made about the Kirpal lineage, they're fine, nothing hyper-selective about that at all! :) you know real, genuine love is absent. It has become corrupted, stagnant, poisoned, and animosity, pride, arrogance is masked behind the mere shells of the words "love", "humility", "truth" etc There is not even a basic level of human decency in this desire for karmic retribution for criticising spiritual ideas and gurus, let alone anything approaching the mystical ecstasy of love which is unrelentingly forgiving, loving, accepting, non-judgemental etc, even in the face of far, far more difficult tribulations.

Yes, do not confuse the form for the formless.

Simply saying the word "love" does not make you a lover. Simply getting initiated by an RSSB guru does not make you a mystic. Simply loving one part of reality whilst rejecting other parts doesn't make you a lover of God. Simply knowing the story of the hero's journey doesn't mean you have walked it. Etc etc etc.

Hey Jesse - I would love to hear more about that experience and your thoughts about it now, if you ever get a chance and don't mind sharing?

Hi Jen - I love that quote! Love Bill Hicks and that whole set too, great stuff! :)

Hi Tim - Love Niz too. Certainly somebody worthy of consideration imo. You ask a good question....what to do ;)

Hi Um - You make some excellent points.

Hi Sonia - thanks again for sharing your experiences. Whatever you choose to do with your life, I hope you find happiness and joy in it! Further to 777's comment, I wanted to clarify there was nothing like "advice" for you specifically, especially in relation to psychedelic usage. I don't know you and your circumstances and it would be reckless to give specific advice to anyone from afar (like RS gurus do, from their stage) about psychedelics especially somebody who's last experience was considered to be "horrific".

To address that, and what is hinted at in Jesse and Um's posts, I should clarify my generalised "advice" on safe and responsible entheogen use.

First of all, only take substances you are 100% sure you know what they are. Either grow your own, or get them through legal channels, or through channels you trust without question and already "tested" by knowledgeable and experienced people. Always measure precisely the amounts you are taking and know what kind of experience to expect with those doses.

Take them in ultra-safe surroundings, never go out and about randomly, or to a club etc (unless you are very comfortable and experienced with them). Usually, in urban areas, this means indoors at home. Either have a knowledgeable and experience "sitter" whom you trust and love implicitly, or if you feel comfortable enough with your own self (more on that later), take them alone. I used to take LSD in social situations as a teenager. I would NOT recommend that to anyone. Nowadays, I would only ever take very large doses of psychedelics alone and at home.

Whilst I have had one truly deep & reality shattering experience with what I suspect was a ridiculously large double dose of LSD as a teenager, and I respect those many people who have had deep "spiritual realisations" on LSD - such as the fascinating self-work (clearly beyond any kind of "self-work" being done within RS circles) described here in this fantastic interview:


.....it wouldn't be my personal entheogen of choice. I find high doses of mushrooms to be my particular "ally" on the path. I find them to be, well, beyond description......but more "gentler", loving, connected to nature, nurturing, healing etc than LSD was in my experience.

In my personal experience I am unable to see how any kind of negative or harmful experience could occur with this medicine, but I know that is a very, very dangerous assumption to make. Everyone is different.

A high dose of mushrooms, and probably most psychedelics, will ultimately shatter all personal and egoic identification structures in consciousness. This could be far more uncomfortable for some people than it will be for others, who will try to cling to these structures as the psychedelic storm blowing through their entire being is tearing it down like confetti.

Ultimately these substances are only tools, and tools can be used to create damage as well as to construct. Psyche means mind delic means manifesting, so psychedelics are only manifesting what is already in our minds and being. And if we haven't worked through all our psychological issues, parental issues, social issues, esteem issues, if we do not live a life of love, compassion, forgiveness, tolerance, non-judgement, no prejudice, no bigotry etc, then before we can get anywhere near non-dual transcendence of the ego, we must go through the horror of all these thought structures we have created to bolster our ego and keep us all separated. Pure evil and hells can be encountered. A very, very high dose of a good psychedelic will no doubt push you into non-dual ecstasy, but boy can the journey to get there be a seemingly eternal hell of torment and suffering beyond anything you could have imagined. A too low dose could leave you just stuck working with these hellish experiences without the relief of "breaking through" to ecstasy.

Point is, psychedelic or not, we all need to work through and assimilate all the shadow aspects of our being before becoming "whole"...... and deep, dark suffering and torment, hopelessness, nihilistic depression, hellish realms etc MUST be experienced, deeply, and indeed they must become part of our very being......before we can "access", understand or appreciate absolute ecstasy, joy, love......for they CONTAIN those hellish realms, not avoid or hide from them. We can work through those hellish realms either through life (as I did), or we can go on a turbo charged express journey through them via large dose psychedelic journeys. Both journeys can be excruciatingly difficult and challenging in different ways, I suppose. It is the stripping away of all that is false until all that is left is our true self, rendered genuinely humble and meek in the face of a sensed "higher power" that is beyond description. This is the yoga of becoming so small that you become everything!

It is far better, imo, to lead a life of unconditional love, charity, compassion, forgiveness, treating all sentient beings with genuine affection, to harbour no enmity, jealousy, ill-will to anyone, etc etc. Also, to every now and then, not identify with your own self, to step back and show a little of love and compassion to your own self, to let things like guilt and regret go, to show a little kindness to your own self, to not take oneself so seriously etc. Do this for years, decades, until it is perfected. THEN take a very high dose of psychedelics. :)

If that sounds too much like hard work, then nobody should be taking large doses of psychedelics off the bat without any preparatory self-work. In that case, take far smaller doses - for eg. for a first time you probably wouldn't want to take more than 1.5-2g or dried mushrooms, rather than a 7g "God dose"! The 2g may, possibly, give you more than you are prepared for in regards working through whatever "level" of psychological issues you may have, and you just may not be prepared psychologically for large doses.

People have hinted at it here, and I've mentioned in depth on the other forum, but I have seen unprepared people permanently psychologically scarred by LSD, and even known personally somebody who committed suicide due in part to it. This is the potential of unsafe misuse without understanding the self. And being an experienced meditator with the RS method doesn't necessarily help, I know the case of at least one person experienced for decades in RS meditation who was knocked sideways by an intense Ayahuasca experience, encountered a negative entity their meditation experience just couldn't cope with. (btw, I heard this excellent podcast about an Ayahuasca experience yesterday. A highly recommended listen, is a great example of a mature and intelligent spiritual path being walked, great insights into "ego" etc: http://thirdeyedrops.com/godsey-aya/ ) If a simple drink can cause that kind of panic for an experienced RS satsangi, what will the whirling visions of death cause to happen to our composure? Though that person would disagree with my interpretation, that negative entity, that kaal or demiurge is our own minds, unintegrated issues in our own psyche manifesting as symbolic visions of terrifying entities which the magical 5 words alone cannot banish. In other words, it is the absence of love which is kaal, and it is the act of loving that can banish it.

During this season of goodwill, I will share my Super Secret Mantra, the one that opens up all the regions and all the heavens, that cannot be denied by any agent of kaal. Please keep it secret, it is Super Powerful and grants instant access to all the mysteries of creation and one that instantly banishes all demons, demiurges, agents of kaal etc that can be encountered. Seriously, I mean it. Really, really mean it......

When I was a child, my spontaneous mantra of choice was "satnam waheguru". During many (natural) altered states of consciousness as a child, I would mentally repeat this mantra. The words didn't matter, it was the pure unconditioned love that they signified which mattered. When I got older but still a teen child, I managed to work out the RS mantra jyot niranjan,onkaar, rarankaar, so hang, satnam. For a while I tried to fall in love with it, but it never flowed, seemed too mechanical etc. Then, I spontaneously and naturally found the all powerful super secret mantra which has guided me through all regions and realms without any hindrance, both my kundalini experiences, periods of stress in real life, and any dose of psychedelics:


Yes, you heard it here first folks. When you encounter Kaal on the road, send him your love!! Trust me, it confuses the shit out of him. You may even become lovers ;)

Anyway, that's enough rambling for this decade I feel. Let's hope 2020 really is the year of good vision for us all. Happy New Year everyone!!!

@ Manjit
>>For a while I tried to fall in love with it, but it never flowed, seemed too mechanical etc<<

The last time I sat before him "Your all time friend" and complaint about the hick-up in this mantra he started laughing whole heartedly and explained that it had to be so … unfortunatly I forget to ask why.

Years before I wrote him a letter putting before him that the first teacher in Agra must have used the first part of your mantra … I received a very long letter in which he explained that not being the case … but I still have that notion.

Mantras are the fruit of inner experiences … an experienced backer knocks on his bread and knows whether it is done or not. It can not be transmitted … it takes time

There is the Mnt,Everest.
There are brave people that went to the top fighting and overcoming themselves.
It transformed them for the rest of their life.
Neither was the Mnt everest created for that purpose nor the humans that climbed it

"between your hypocritical talk of love."

U don't understand and not being an exer even, . . you can never
handle the subject

Love generated by thoughtlessness can only be understood
while being the so accumulated form by being One with the Shabd
by Being that Sound.
It's the same Love as the "Bringing an old man to the other side of the street
but accumulated
It is the feel of wanting do good to another being in optima forma.
It can only happen, . . not explained

I guess Sonia man had it a second ( but it stayed) by Gurinder's Gaze
and said:"Everything in the world, I would give"

Manjit I speak dutch and you Mandarin, we cannot discuss all this.

Do U understand Rumi's Poems
like paraphrasing
The King's Falcon without reason descending on my shoulder

You call that threaten someone , declaring to a person that he we get what he wants ( where the heart already is ) ??

You mix behaviour of RSSB disciples non discriminatory
which is an unhappy , I guess even unwanted by yourself

Satsangis are just human beings and can go nasty

But your :
"doesn't mean you have walked it. Etc etc etc." is correct
I at 83 had never again this big_bang realisation of about 30 minutes of being the High Shabd
This One almost killed from LOVE!
But I lived and live that each day >>. The Shabd, IS the 5 Words and integral : The living Master
The Christians are right with "The Father, The Son and This Shabd"
I was flabbergasted for years to the point
of me recommended writing to Charan " Now that I have You, I don't need God anymore!
Please don't answer me outside-ly"

Wrong but not very stupid, . . a little bit yes

🍀🎄 🍀 🍀🎄 🍀

Gurinder somewhat strange ?
How would You feel having to forgive each day thousands of morons?

It's dangerous like SSRI medications
and does not bring one outside the planet's etheric realm
HOW DARE YOU advocating

Do U think there are no consequences following such advices
Karma is a Bitch


yr last comment way to ugly to comment

Probably Gurinder's answer was the same Charan gave
The more insignificant, . . the better
then there are no/less uprising associations

The words could be Coca Cola Rank Xerox DowJ
they contain the Power of the Giver

like the Pope"s blessings

It has no power when received from a moron , Mephisto
other then his moronity
Strange that the words like Mike the first time did are wrong

your answer is more or less the conclusion on page 4 of that letter.

But like it matters who gives, it also matters who teceives.

There was a charcoal burner that received some sandel wood from the king as a gift. He burned it all without realising he could have sold the wood in the market for much money …
Who is there to blame?
The king or the charcoalburner?

That's for the two and half hours to find out
next we can't tell

Same for manjit and hos beloved


In Alan Watts , Roger erred : with:

"2. The cause of any experience of unhappiness is based on our conditioned reaction that we do not like the experience as it is and want it to be other than it is. "

Unhappyness comes forth from
Everything we have, big or small, will be taken away from us

Charan said it every day

The 2 and half hours brings us to eternal stuff
3,9 poor will admit
9 prefer to discuss this

So, in Um's story the Charcoal man was the wise one



Modern day hippies
We went through this stuff 50 years ago now they wanna do it all again.

It's not a perfect nor permanent high
Ayahuasca mushrooms Lsd etc can induce some 'spiritual' type experience but it's mind stuff, mind reflection on itself.

Spirituality as exercised and experienced by dedicated devoted students in a system through true love or bhakti is something else.

Heed 777's warning and follow the instructions of true love and trust true advice from true adepts of true spiritual science.
The shamans 'medicine' can only enlarge your own experiences in your mind, what you project is what you experience, it's only emotional mind stuff.

Spirituality (spiritual reality) is a higher level of knowing (experiences of life).


You said:
“ Sonia
Gurinder somewhat strange ?
How would You feel having to forgive each day thousands of morons?”

My answer is:
Forgiveness is not the same as taking on another person’s karma. Forgiveness is not holding a grudge or judging or making a person suffer for what they’ve done.

Theoretically, it should be second nature for a Saint. When you don’t forgive, you aren’t forgiven.

And I’m not a saint (as we all know) but regardless of the things I say when I’m really upset, I do truly forgive in the sense that I don’t want anyone to suffer—not for anything... not at all. I believe in reformation. But sometimes I have a hard time letting go of my own hurt.


Yes, no more trips for me. My mind goes too far. For 2020 I set my goals around self-discipline and self-control (not my favorite concepts—I’m more of a free spirit). But then I realized it’s all love.

You have your inner experiences.
How many people you know that have them too?
There many that have invested what was needed for years without going anywhere.

Your story is an exception within exceptions

If one buys a ticket for the lottery one is entitled to win, but the chances to win are almost nil.
Every american can become president but the chances one does is also nil.
The same holts for following this or that path.

Hi Um
You wrote
"Your story is an exception within exceptions."

If you see it this way, it is of no utility to you. Is that your point?

But consider that 777 has learned not to dismiss his own experiences, but to honor them, to submit to them, to learn from them.

That much is available to everyone.

You have an inner life. Your brain is doing all kinds of things all the time. You have learned to suppress all that in order to function in this outer world, and to be alert to these outer things.

But it's a good exercise to do the opposite for a little while each day.

The flood of information, thoughts, memories, ideas, horrors and inspirations will be more than most people can handle. They were always there. But learning to manage these, like learning to drive a motorcycle, hands always on the handlebars, and that will take you to all the places those thoughts came from. Lightening, thunder, stars and daylight even in the middle of the night.

It is only discipline. Your brain and 777's brain and my brain are 99.99% identical. Same equipment. Same construction.

@ Spencer

There are crows, Nightingales and eagles.

They all have to live their own life, they can not learn one from the other.

Hi Um
You write
"There are crows, Nightingales and eagles.

" They all have to live their own life, they can not learn one from the other."

But we are learning all the time. We aren't made of stone. We are a bag of chemicals constantly connected and interacting. We are a web of interlaced neurons recreating our notions over and over again.

It is an illusion that we don't change.

The crow is becoming a nightingale, the caterpillar a great butterfly. The seed, a mighty oak.

All flowers lean towards the sun. Can't be helped. But it happens over a time line our limited attention cannot fathom.

@ Spence

in the bible, i says that the lord created the crow an saw that it was good.
He also created the other birds as they are and saw that it was good.

Since when do crows become Nightingales??

Changing for the better is an curse humans have inflicted upon them selves.
The history books tell about the outcome.

For every evil humanity found an solution, in its wake 10 new evils were born, more evil than the one before.

Forgiveness is not the same as taking on another person’s karma.


HE. has the authority to play false with kal

That is
and the Path is
to generate a kind of hyper Love for the Sound Current

A little drop of that insane and non-explainable feel for The Creator
is more Love energy than a zillion Creations full with bad karma

So HE just generates THAT joyous bewilderment with Darshan
( ask your man again) in 4 Million Jeevas
which all are in the process of karma cancellation

He said it
He takes no karma.

He doesn't t want praise
Actually HE tries to escape praise
HE has just gotten the Hyper Package 🍀 💦 🍀 of Nam for distribution to some willing

HE sees it as HIS DUTY
If HE HE enjoys NAM all the time it s not hard.
I guess HE has humor frequently

I can see HIM marry even with some Hollywood actress
to lower HIS Status

Shabd is a living energy . . . like a person that lives
It's fantastic

I wish You Sonia, your Man , Readers here and all humanity for 2020 a little sniff of it
which grows, and grows and grows


Hi Um
You asked
"in the bible, i says that the lord created the crow an saw that it was good.
He also created the other birds as they are and saw that it was good.

" Since when do crows become Nightingales??

"Changing for the better is an curse humans have inflicted upon them selves.
" The history books tell about the outcome.

"For every evil humanity found an solution, in its wake 10 new evils were born, more evil than the one before.

It's not in our hands to change or not change. It is already happening.

Every child who becomes an adult, every seed that becomes a great tree is a testament that change is inevitable, natural and beautiful.

Who resists change? Let those things go. They were never in your hands.


10 new evils again & again and then :



Why is the Gov still I place
after refusing a year ago
to buy more water bombers

All 2020best 4U


I can see HIM marry even with some Hollywood actress
to lower HIS Status

Shabd is a living energy . . . like a person that lives
It's fantastic

I wish You Sonia, your Man , Readers here and all humanity for 2020 a little sniff of it
which grows, and grows and grows


Posted by: 🍀 💦 🍀 | January 01, 2020 at 03:06 PM

Okie dokie then... WOW. Queen of Diamonds? 🙄

I don’t know what you’ve been sniffing but whatever it is I’m pretty sure I don’t want any.

However, I do wish you and yours a Happy New Year and too be honest I’m quite envious—my husband and I would love to live in France. You’re very lucky. I love Paris!! 😊

On a sane note, I have a question about meditation. Like any kind of meditation. For years now when I start my meditation (RS and/or mindfulness) my neck immediately starts to pull-up. And then it keeps popping and adjusts itself I guess. I never get sleepy when I meditate. Anyway, I know this sounds weird but what’s interesting about it is I had a really bad ski accident years ago (hit a tree skiing in Colorado with back of my head at like 40 mph) and then I had another neck. injury after that. Anyway, when the doctors take scans of my neck they say my discs are virtually gone. They’ve been saying this for severe am years now. They say I should be in severe pain but I’m not (I think because of what happens when I meditate). However, since I haven’t meditated much this year, I’m starting to get numbness in my arms and my vision and hearing are really affected (somehow it’s all connected 🤷‍♀️). For a while I thought my neck adjusting during meditation was what caused the damage but then I realized it was keeping me from having pain.

Anyway, I have to have all my discs replaced but obviously am putting that off as long as possible.

Does anyone here have similar experiences with Mindfulness meditation or RS (it happens during both for me). Do you think it’s normal? Do you think it’s possible to heal yourself though meditation??? I really don’t want this surgery.

@ Spence

growth is no change.
growth is just un-folding what is there.
"What" changes, remains what it is …. like the clay on the potters wheel


I am not on facebook ….so could not open that site


>>So HE just generates THAT joyous bewilderment with Darshan<<

That is what happened with you from the early beginning …. however there were and are few others that are blessed with that bewilderment …. so that makes you see the world as you do.

Maybe you could also be as happy as you are now in places of war, poverty and other misery and experience heaven in hell.

I think in Colorado,
Gurinder adjusted karma and U should be dead
or in terrific pain, when all nuclei pulposi are damaged.
Normally their second ( but main , I think) function)
is to let the nerves pass smoothly

Concerning meditation
this elongation vertical is a super good sign
that the private vibrations are ascending
to make place a little later or simultaneously
for the Shabd vibrations

Since I m member here I marked several times
that meditations must be as vertical as possible
Tulsi Sahib is said to use a kind of T-form wooden device
to stay right UP

Later on ( as U said ) the body does it from itself
like when You have a muscle cramp
like your crown wants to go higher, "seek the ceiling"

No way or possibility to go THEN in Bhajan position
I have never done that position

It all starts where your highest hair grows
but little tingle at the Tisra is the start
although many satsangi's
have that the whole day ,

You are so Lucky with such a husband!
not a control freak - so GSD took over


Hi Um
You wrote
"growth is no change.
growth is just un-folding what is there."

Perhaps we are splitting hairs a bit.
Unfolding is a process of change.

Consider that we are all the same. Soul is the same. So the rest are just these coverings which really aren't so different. Talents are handed out like a paycheck, or maybe just the lottery. You take a ticket handed to you, stand in the entrance line at the amusement park, and when you get to the window they hand you some special coins. But everyone in line is equal. Everyone is the same spiritually. Coins are a little different, that's all. How you spend them on different rides is up to you. Some choose the gardens, others like the haunted house, others go to the pirate ship, and others to the music pavilion.

And then the sun sets, they have some fireworks, and it's time to leave the park for the day.

The body only wants to merge back into the elements of the earth, the sky, the waters. The mind wants to merge back into the universal realm of ideas and energies. The soul only wants to merge back into the Soul. Each has its source, and in fact they all have the same source. Once synchronization ends, all the parts go back to their own source.

These differences, between crow, eagle, animal, human are inconsequential. We shouldn't make so much of them. Doing that is understandable, from a caste culture, a master/slave mentality, a have /have not mentality. We should try to raise our thinking above that. There is enough for all to live in the highest imaginable comfort: peace of mind, equality, freedom and brotherhood.

@ 777

Then why are satsangis tought that position if it is of no use??
Your guru never made it a point to sit straight up ...why do you?
His hephew stressed in an interview only to sit absolutely still

You are the first satsangi in over 40 years that mentions that tingling.

OMG are we still going on about the crow! 😸

A little wisdom from Aesop’s...

‘The Crow and the Pitcher’
In a spell of dry weather, when the Birds could find very little to drink, a thirsty Crow found a pitcher with a little water in it. But the pitcher was high and had a narrow neck, and no matter how he tried, the Crow could not reach the water. The poor thing felt as if he must die of thirst.
Then an idea came to him. Picking up some small pebbles, he dropped them into the pitcher one by one. With each pebble the water rose a little higher until at last it was near enough so he could drink.

In a pinch a good use of our wits may help us out.

(I would like to think the other birds learned from the crow. 🙂)

@ spence

With a little exageration one could say that what drives culture forwards is the IDEA of change, change for the better.

Politics, economy etc are all motivated by it and therapist live on and from the idea at the cost of their clients. A moment in a bookshop will make that clear.

Priests and therapists, he said, have nothing to share with you.

Peace of mind was lost because we didn't trust our parents, brothers an sisters etc. In doing so we would build emotional pressure, which the body could not digest. He compared it with Geisers without good safety valves and we being worse … hahahaha. Once that pressure was lifted he said everybody knew what to o best!

That is logical … every living creature is made as a self supporting system

We cannot change, we need not, it makes us unhappy, it destroys our world …. adaptation is the only thing, adapting to our selves, our genes, family. culture, climate.

The BELIEVE in change is as addictive as religion, drugs, alcohol can be … it is difficult to get rid of those addictions.

Therapists, priests and idealists in general are like drug dealers.


I should be dead or in severe pain... that’s true. Thankfully I’m not. Not sure about the karma thing. Just remember hitting the tree so hard that I couldn’t feel my body. I knew it was a “death” blow. On my way up to the lift the person sitting next to me told me that the day before (which was the first day of the season at Keystone) a 27 year old professional skier had died there. I was also 27 but not a pro and I didn’t want to be the second person to die. So, I just tried to stay really alert. But I felt myself leaving my body and all I could think about was my mom—we had unresolved issues. And then in my head (being agnostic) I was saying “no, I have no idea where I’m going”. Ski patrol got me to the clinic pretty quickly. Had temporarily paralysis—like just a few hours! And then a month of partial amnesia and nausea.

Anyway, I realize that I tell of lot of stories about my life here. Sorry if it’s annoying but it’s just how I communicate with people. But face to face I’m usually able to get people to tell me their stories. I love hearing other people’s stories. I personally find other people’s experiences are a lot more interesting than their opinions or advice.

I love reading autobiographies and biographies more than anything else. :)

@UM. 💦💙 💙. 💦

When I got Naaaam
it was together with a Lady , older than I'm now
and she said : I cannot do that position
Then Lional Metz , the fantastic representative showed her
that T-device
which many Saints & Mystics of thePast were figured with

Of course at home I first visited the carpenter shop

But You asked about the tingling
Please be attentive there , at the TisraTil and you will experience

It is like these little diamond that appear long time before the real show starts
They are remarkable to the point that you see a clearness of
never aware before, never thought that was possible
The teachings speak of little sparks of light
but they are so much more - Entire universes they are. !!!
and as always we have the choice to go in there
Do Some Don Quichote . . . . or NOT
and then later from above experiencing they are like snow flocks and you
see/know there low region status
But One of them will be that Crooked Tunnel Swami Ji and
Guru Granth Sahib
speaks about - It will swell. and U can't stop it

And now I didn't even mention the music.
The teachings compare with certain instruments and again ( like Spence said )
everybody gets synchronised with his taste , I mean nobody can compare
but the Main-point is that it will not stop
Never anymore you will be alone
It's in a way connected with that twinkling in the Tisra Til

This Path
if it didn't exist already, . . somebody should invent it

I consider myself a lousy satsangi but I m a hyper FAN

See my 500 comments here and there is only big time Joy in them

perhaps googling "liquid diamonds" + 777 will bring some of that joy
but U guys are so young

Although I and my wife hear MaharaJi's Shabd 24/7
me even when I go astray ( I will not answer)
and then I ask myself the stupid question : Why that Highlighted almost
One hour moment didn't come every day?, . . once a year.
and the answer is that my whole life that followed
would have been definitely different

But the twinkle never stopped but fluctuates in intensity
and the Sound too

I think actually the teaching are understood like 'Rigid'
like not speaking about inner stuff

In the older days it was more gemûtlig

Like a friend of mine , long in SK now
butMaharaJI asked him in the car where he could ppee
but no WC/Restaurant in view
So Charan Beloved did it lik all of us sometimes
against a tree

My friend had planned an prostate intervention 10 days later
and when he arrived the cancer had GONE
He said : Yeeee , while HE peeed I felt so warm at my prostate

Also there is JIM ( younger guy here ) who like Edgar Cayce , needing money
got suddenly from an insurance agent
100K Check was Signed : Grewal
Hééé. Jim. say that s right

These stories are few these days
There are many in my comments

💦💙 💙. 💦
Cheers Sonia

HE. was not particularly nice 4U , or gave no Darshan
But I found out that HE saved your ass many times
so that
next time you will sit silent
you will feel grateful which is the base of love
which is the MAIN component of meditation

Without Love there is nothing
yr man will br delighted


Hi Um
Priests and politicians exist precisely because we are driven to progress. It's part of our nature. But we can easily be confused. So where there are photocopies, there is also the real.

The real never packages itself with advertising. The true saints do not function in a formal guru role. That's way too constraining.

Therapists, priests and idealists in general are like drug dealers.

Posted by: Um | January 02, 2020 at 09:45 AM

I would say sitting in meditation 2.5 hours/day changes you. And that’s a conscious decision that you make.

Just a random thought here:

I believe the only difference between atheists and most people is whether or not they believe in an afterlife. (I hope) Everyone agrees that love exists and that it is required for creating connection and having healthy relationships. “God” is love but religion and many spiritual people have given God a bad name. Plus, it’s technically not accurate to call it “God”—that’s just our minds giving human characteristics to an ENERGY.

Anyway, I choose to believe in an afterlife just because I want to. I can’t prove it to anyone but I want to believe in it and have had experiences that lead me to believe it’s possible. And if that gives me peace about dying then so be it.

But if one doesn’t believe in an afterlife that’s fine too. They say we keep reliving this moment in time that ended ages ago. I don’t really know what that means but it sounds cool.

To 777 and others sharing their experiences, here was what I have posted on Dr. Ruquist’s Ishwar Puri Facebook site. I know 777 and other don’t have Facebook, so here is my current Meditation comments.
“ I have been using the same Meditation Technique since April, 1988. I still meditate 2-3 hours daily, using exactly the Technique that Ishwar Puri still shares with all he Initiates. Bhajun ( it has various spellings, depending,. I.e. Bahjun, Bajhun, etc,) means listening to the Sound. In the Initiation, we were told there are 10 or more sounds, but the Great Master, Sawan Singh said to focus on only two., i.e. the Conch, and the Bell. Actually, the Conch sounds like a big sea shell, when lightly plugging the right ear with the thumb. It also sounds like Jet Engines when flying. But that is no longer needed once the Ringing Radiance of the Bell is heard. Seasoned Initiates usually hear the Bell 24/7. Sant Mat, or The Path of The Masters, is the Path of the Sound Current. ALL Lights, and Visuals originate from the Sound Current, which is called Shabd, by Sant Mat Masters.

When initiated in to this Sound & Light Meditation, we were instructed to spend 3/4 of first time, focusing at the 3rd Eye, looking in to the black Void, while doing “Simran”, which means Repetition of the Mantra we ALL were given, as Initiates of this lineage of Living Masters. During this time doing Simran, the very same internal visions at the 3rd Eye is duplicated in every “ successful” Meditation, by ALL Initiates of this Lineage who took the Vows and continue to do their best to keep them to their ability. The internal Signs are specs and flashes of silver white light, of various shapes, then a golden Sun or Sphere, which then forms a Silver White Moon inside, or within the Sun, ......until the Golden Sun dissolves leaving only the Moon,....until it morphs in to a swirling Silver White rotating Cloud, with a black hole in the center that either sucks you in, or you rapidly fly thru the black hole to rest in the Black Void, where all visuals and sounds cease. This is the Region of Samadhi , of Hindus, or Sach Khand of the Radhasoamis, or the I AM THAT of the Advaitists. Only Awareness remains there. But this “death” in this Void, is only temporary, while traveling there to die while living, ......until the physical body dies, and the knotted mind/soul remains in the Void until Reincarnation back in to Duality, ( to further become Missionaries of our Higher Soul Selves to balance Karmas.) during Meditation, after the 3/4 times is completed doing Simran, ( For Initiates, we ALL use the same Mantra, but for those not initiated, I suggest using your own favorite Mantras during Simran) , then comes the time to devote the last 1/4 time to doing Bahjan, or listening to the Sound. This is similar to doing “Mindful Meditation” while listening to the Sound. Using a Recliner Chair, as I do, its very easy and practical to raise my knees up far enough to support resting my elbows on my knees, instead of sitting on the ground, or floor in the Indian Squat position we were shown at Initiation. Or, using the T - Stick to support the elbows. In the Recliner, minimal change of position, or interfering with exiting Samadhi, or the Void interferes with transition from Simran to Bahjun. Once the elbows are resting on the Knees, then, the RIGHT Thumb LIGHTLY plugs the hole of the RIGHT EAR, ( experiment with how much pressure is needed to listen to the variance in Sounds). The LEFT thumb should NOT plug the left ear, but only rest on the ear flap. The reason only the right ear is plugged, is that we are instructed to listen to the sounds coming from the right of the 3rd eye first, until it centers in the middle. Now, we were told by The Great Master, Sawan Singh, in his Book, “ Spiritual Gems”, that there may be 10 different Sounds, but once the right ear is plugged, the TWO Sounds to listen for is first, the Conch, ( sounds like large sea shell, or roaring wind, or Jet engine while flying),......until the Sound of the Shabd, becomes the ringing Radiance of the Bell tone, with out any breaks in the Ringgging! Once this Rinnnngggging Sound has been reached, most Initiates continue hearing the ringing Radiance 24/7 when ever the mind is unoccupied by work, or normal duties. Last but not least, as another “ personal “Tip”, during listening to the Conch Sound, I internally, silently Hum,.....OMMMM,....until the Ringing Radiance of the Bell starts chiming, then I Internally start Humming,...Ahhhhhhhh. THEN the Visuals of people, places, and things start being visualized, inside the Astral Realms. From here, all of our experiences are different, and vary, depending on our past lives, memories, and Samsaras and Karmas. Hope this helps my Fellow Travelers in the Journey of Souls.
Here are a few more tips, for accessing the Astral Planes for new Initiates, or Meditators. It really doesn’t matter your Master or Lineage, as long as you are using the Surat Shabd Yoga Meditation Technique, focusing at the black Void at the Third Eye while doing Mantra Simran. Before the whirling Silver White Multi-pointed Diamond appears, it usually first manifests as a greyish white cloud. To increase the size and clarity of the cloud, after it appears at the Third Eye, move the cloud up to the Crown Chakra for a few seconds, then back to the center; then down towards the heart for a few seconds, then, back to the center; then to the right for a few seconds, then back to the center; then to the left and back to the center. Continue to manipulate the cloud like this several more times until it will SEEM to disappear! But don’t quit doing repetition or Simran. The cloud has not disappeared. What is happening is, YOU have entered the Cloud, and should now be watching for the Silver White Star Gate inside the Cloud. Then, as you keep focusing at the tiny black hole in the center of the Star,....either you will travel through the Star in to the Astral Plane, or it will seem to travel towards you, engulfing you. Once your in the Astral Planes, all experiences will be unique and individual ,depending on your individual Karmas.
If any Seekers here, after reading this, tries it, and is successful, please share your experiences with us, and what you saw in the Astral Planes, if possible. Radhasoami!
Regarding Sant Thakar Singh! I really think , had it not been for him, I would have never started on the Sant Mat Path. I have dozens of Lucid memories of him, that I will never forget, because he first initiated me, in to the Sant Mat Path, in person, at the University of California Auditorium in L.A. in April, 1988. I “ could” share many personal experiences with him, here,....( if Any Readers are interested ? )........, because I followed him around to many of his Southern California Satsangs, in public meeting places, such as Libraries, Auditoriums, Unitarian Churches, College Campuses, and in Oregon, at his public Auditorium Sat Sangs, and climbed the mountain to see him when he was at his Mountain Ashram in Oregon, with his U.S. Female Rep., Joannie Solomon. Thakar personally touched my forehead, several different times, massaging my Third Eye, until my Third Eye was recharged , and flashes of Light came back from loosing it between seeing him. I think Thakar lost most of his Western appeal and followers after David Lane posted his Video critiquing Thakar, exposing his abuse of a few disgruntled “ me too” females. Professor Lane’s favorite Mission has been exposing the negative baggage of Gurus such as Thakar, Sai Baba, Twitchell, and most of the others who have ever been even remotely involved with Sant Mat. Considering Dr. Lane now has even critiqued Yogananda, and his Book, “ Autobiography of a Yogi”, I wonder how many Sacred Followers will leave the Path after reading Lane’s new Book? But back to Sant Thakar, I think he deserves Credit where ever it is due, especially by those like me, who he initially put on the Path, and had it not been for him, I never would have become a Vegetarian, at the very least, or continued on the Path , or stayed on it to now. Compared to the negative baggage being exposed in Gurinder Singh’s life, as Head of RSSB, Sant Thakar Singh was an Avatar!
I wonder how Professor Lane will eventually write Gurinder Singh’s Biography, as well as Dr. Ishwar Puri’s past baggage, after they die, so they also can be critiqued by Dr. Lane! I would never be allowed to share the thoughts I have shared here, on any other forum, except this one, because Dr. Ruquist , who is the Administrator of this Forum and I have always had a special, tho, unusual relationship. It was I who introduced him to Sant Mat, and Ishwar Puri, as he has shared with others. But back to Thakar,.....He had an uncanny ability to project Lazar Beams from his eyes, directly in to the eyes of any one he made personal eye contact with, in the audiences sitting in various Auditoriums. Of course, I was also an Unbelieving Skeptic until he Lazar Beamed me while I was sitting in the audience in an Anaheim, California Auditorium, and I could actually SEE the Silver White Beam of Light projecting from his eyes to others, as he made contact with their eyes. As I was waiting for my turn, hoping he would not miss me, considering I was in the center rows of hundreds of others in the Audience, he suddenly turned his head, and made personal contact with my eyes, projecting a Silver White Cord of Light, that looked like a nylon fishing line, right in to my both eyes! He held the projection there, for about 5 seconds, which almost blew my ear drums open, with the Sound of the Ringing Bell sounding like a Police Cruiser Siren! Then, the Sound left immediately, as soon as he turned away from making eye contact with me! I was not even initiated yet,....but THAT was the very first time I was EVER exposed to the Sound of Shabd! It was addicting,....and still is,...to this day! So, the Moral of my story is,....never refuse a Gift, offered by a tainted Messenger, because that may be the only time you will ever be offered such a Gift by another in this Life Time! Jump on the Salvation Express, before it leaves the Terminal, never to return! Even if only Coach Class is available, and First Class has already been filled by the Elite! ( The Last Shall be First,...and the First shall be Last), as the Bible tells us!”
Jim Sutherland


@ Sonya
Meditation changes one, you wrote.

What than changes and how?

Hi Jim
This is more than we asked for
and I like your Enthusiasm

In your next chapter the Word LOVE
would not be misplaced
All forms of real love
Up to Love for the Sound, The Holy Ghost
which is The Master, . . . who is that trains coach class

Those joining have no desire to be to first
joining the This Love is good enough

Love is in place from the beginning to the end
f I Sonia who will get it from gratitude
up to Osho's The One

From The Love Point of View all phenomena are hocus pocus

I'm not sure you will live lang enough
to receive understanding of Gurinder's Motives
but let see Us next life for that


@ spence
A person is a saint only in the eyes of others.
Imaging a saint standing for the mirror brushing his/her teeth … seeing a saint?!?
The creator, if there is one, created the theater, the script an the actors.
Since when are actors allowed to play an other role than designed?!
So is there the crow an also the saint
There are also the snake oil sellers.
The priests and the therapists
They all have their role to play … BUT … cannot change.
Not even if they meditate 2,5 hours a day

For all:
this PC has some problems, so now and then a letter is missing
The spelling controll suffers as well
Not to speak of my english

Hi Um
You wrote
"A person is a saint only in the eyes of others."

And not on their own eyes? Find the Saint in you. It is meaningless if you don't.

"Imaging a saint standing for the mirror brushing his/her teeth … seeing a saint?!?"

Yes exactly.

You asked
"The creator, if there is one, created the theater, the script an the actors.
Since when are actors allowed to play an other role than designed?!"

This is a playground where we get to play a variety of roles largely by our own choice.

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