Open Thread 27 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

I appreciate that off-topic comments have been going in a previous Open Thread. As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[🍀🍀🍀]

Sonia:
I truly find it funny. I mean, he was 100% right and yet I still got to enjoy nearly 11 months of daily drinking

me:
HE smelled it

777

We all smelled 🍀

[Whodunit]

No reason to get excited the thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us who think that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late

Yes who said that
Kinda real, no?

[Whodunit]

Poor dears

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

Was that Santa?? 🙃

I just got home from one of my meetings. It’s actually been a blessing in disguise. I’ve made a ton of new friends who are very supportive and focus on recovery through connecting with your higher power. It’s all new to me... I still haven’t really worked the program other than abstaining. Don’t know if your even familiar with the steps... good thing is there are way more cool people in this small city that I can hang out with. So, it gets me out of the house a tad more.

Anyway... life is short, isn’t it?

[Sonia]

777,

I wasn’t drunk at Dera... or was I? 🤔

No, I don’t think so. Just crazy. Not drunk.

Thanks for your continual loving support. 🤨

I’m not a saint and will never be. Is that OK?????

[Sonia]

Poor dears

Posted by: Whodunit | December 16, 2019 at 06:00 PM

Wait, was that sarcasm???

I’m assuming you’ve never had a drink in your life and you’ve never done drugs. You’ve probably never been arrested or financially bankrupt either. Am I right???

Of course, all because you were born with stellar karma. Hats off to you. 👏

[Sonia]

Even so, I wouldn’t trade my life for yours any day. I am who I am and right now I’m very happy.

[Sonia]

Whodunit (seriously, that name...)

BTW, I only got arrested once—in my 20’s and it was basically for just being stupid. But “technically” that never happened because my dad was able to take care of it then.

But bankruptcy sucks for a little while and then you adjust and actually start to appreciate the little things. All the “big stuff” isn’t necessary for happiness. Occasionally I travel with my dad and when I come home I feel like I’m living in motel 6 so I have to go camping for a few days and then when I return home it feels like total luxury. It’s all relative. Maybe you will learn that some day.

You see... the one peace of advice I can give you is that EVERYTHING is just a matter of perspective.

[Sonia]

No reason to get excited the thief he kindly spoke
There are many here among us who think that life is but a joke
But you and I we've been through that and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late

Yes who said that
Kinda real, no?

Posted by: Whodunit | December 16, 2019 at 05:28 PM

Life isn’t a joke, poor dear.

Arrogance and self righteousness are a joke.

I’m so naive I originally thought you were trying to be nice.

[Whodunit]

Are you trying to educate me Sonia dear?

The quote above was from Bob Dylan around 1965-66 thereabouts 'All along the watchtower'. The one Jimi Hendrix made famous. Modern day Shakespearean masterpiece. Thought someone here might have recognized it.

No I've seen enough of the hell alcohol can unleash on lives, thankfully it's never been something I've ever been attracted to. Worst drug known to man and the one they made legal.

Though I was a bit of a hippie once, smoked some dope and took LSD (just like Brian ji) as Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert (contemporaries of Ishwar Puri at Harvard before they got fired for their wayward take on psychological research analysis) and who used to advocate as best way to get to Nirvana, or blow your mind and eyes wide once or twice to get a 'better perspective' on life. Till Alpert met his guru in the Himalayas and became Baba Ram Das of 'be here now' fame and fortune.

So no need to try lectures about sinners or saints, been round the block couple times to recognize the difference.

[Whodunit]

Oh dear oh dear, she can't see the difference between being nice or being genuine

No my dear, you should try lighten up a bit, not every one is trying to undermine or hurt you, least of all whodunit and especially not Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

Oh. Well then... I’m surprised and somewhat impressed that you’re so well educated about counter culture. Not a child of the 60’s. Was born a little too late. Mixing LSD with shrooms was the single stupidest thing I’ve ever done in my entire life. It’s what got me to completely stop experimenting with drugs altogether. It was a HORRIBLE trip. I’m very liberal with my nieces and was the same way with my step-daughter when she was younger but I did my best to scare them away from using psychedelics.

[Rimpi Rani]

OMG... people are here very educated and lots of their extra ordinary words going a way over of my head.....

Simple English doesn't exist it seems...

Just joking..... but High vocabulary and education sometimes make people more stubborn and difficult to accept new ideas which doesn't fit in their logics

Due to Christmas season l am just imagining one image these days..again and again and making me laugh

GSD in Santa dress going to Singh Brother's house and giving them all their money back...what a real Santa he will be...Real Father Christmas... thought GSD has to stop using Straightener on his beard and leave it wild :-)

[Georgy Porgy]

Yep, alcohol is probably the worst of the lot, but it can also make for a v pleasant experience or night out. I don’t drink during the week, but can happily sink 10 or more pints if I go out with pals. In fact it’s nice every couple of months to have a rip-snorter and blast the grey cells into oblivion. Probably not good, but the pub can be one of the nice things about the pommie / European culture imo. But yeah luckily I ain’t really been tempted to suck on the bottle regular each day like some who think it’s mother’s milk.

[🍀🍀🍀]

777,

I wasn’t drunk at Dera... or was I? 🤔
No, I don’t think so. Just crazy. Not drunk.
Thanks for your continual loving support. 🤨. https://patents.google.com/patent/US6194400B1/en?q=Dhea&q=nefkens&oq=Dhea+nefkens

Best start reading at "EXAMPLE:
to avoid unnecessary medical load
and please Rimpi Rani. 🍀
I believe also in Punjab there is still a major need
and government can avoid a billion in expenses
So if U know people in charge of addictions , . . . Improve your karma ASAP!
It really works
also for Coke, Hero, Methadon, Nicotine every addiction

[🐅🐆🐂🐃.🐅. all of us 💖💖💖💖💖💖]

I’m not a saint and will never be. Is that OK?????
Posted by: Sonia | December 16, 2019 at 07:12 PM

Nooo, that's not OK, . . . U'r marked by the Almighty

Seriously : Everything from Creations will turn hyper Saintly by Love
There is no other way to go
RSSB is just a handy short cut to facilitate it, " As Soon As Possible "

777

[Georgy Porgy]

See 777 clearly enjoys a good drink or 10.

[Sonia]

OK, It’s official—we’re all drunk here. 🤤

[Sonia]

🍀🍀🍀,

I’m not sure who I’m addressing here but thanks for the link—a fascinating read. I will share that at some point or try it myself to curb my caffeine addiction. :)

The thing with the steps program is it’s a “program”—a life long thing. The idea is addiction (and addiction can be almost anything) isn’t just a biological problem but actually a symptom of a larger problem which is spiritual. But there’s no requirement to follow any particular faith or belief system, they say it’s just important that you recognize you have a need for a power greater than yourself—“God/higher power as you understand him/her/it to be”. And the program is about meditation, prayer, support and learning to be truly honest with yourself and others. But I’m still new so definitely not a shining example. Still haven’t even finished reading the big book. But it’s so encouraging and empowering to meet all sorts of incredible people, who were once as low as you can possibly get, and turned their lives around to the point where if you ran into them on the street you would just assume they were a very blessed and lucky person. Not everyone falls into that category but a great deal do—especially the ones who really put the time in.

I love the personal experience stories the most. I love hearing about people’s experiences of transformation from absolute rock bottom to happy, healthy and successful. It’s truly beautiful and so encouraging for everyone in the audience. I think it’s ok and actually very helpful to admit our imperfections if we are willing to do the work to fix ourselves. What isn’t ok (in my opinion because it’s so annoying) is to keep asking for help but then rejecting every piece of advice or suggestion or effort someone makes to try and push you in the right direction. It’s another thing when you’re not asking for help—then people have to drag you, but if you keep asking and rejecting then you don’t really want help.

[Sonia]

And the one thing I will say, which might sound preachy (or not, I don’t know), is that every religious or spiritual group should organize their administration the way AA does—accepting no outside contributions. They went through a lot of trial and error in the beginning to figure it out. Some members would will their entire estates when they passed away. At first AA accepted it and donations from others but later that proved to be a disaster—diverted people away from the primary purpose. So, they sort of have a limit on how much each group can accept. They also have rotating speakers/chairs to keep egos in check. It works. It keeps greed in check in order to focus on the primary purpose. There’s a lot of information about it in one of the books (I think there are only two books).

[Georgy Porgy]

Guess it’s like any drug or small pleasure, even smoking - can you drop it on a dime if you need to or do you need it to cope. If the latter, it’s a problem. In moderation, which doesn’t enslave you and not hurting anyone else, I see no problem.

From a meditation & spiritual viewpoint tho it makes sense that it’s a no-no. Keep faculties crystal clear as nature intended. But rssb says that from the start, it’s your choice. If you gonna join, you got to give it up and you probably far better off for doing so. I respect that discipline - far greater rewards potentially.

Seems to me that there are far far worse character traits to have and that drug users and addictive types are often v talented and sensitive ppl. For example, that Amy Winehouse has it all but destined for disaster. Too much, they live full-out, no brakes. Gotta respect that too.

[Sonia]

Georgy,

Yes, it’s that whole “enslave” aspect that can turn any chemical, hobby or compulsion into a miserable obsession.

I used to enjoy watching Hoarders (the tv shows) about people who couldn’t let go of material things and obsessively collected items even junk to fill up their homes and storage units. Just collecting material items in an addictive manner would ruin their lives and their health. I’ve never had an attachment to material objects in a sentimental way so it was fascinating to watch. Plus, if you’re brave enough to get through an episode or two it will motivate you to go through your home and start throwing everything away.

You’re right, it’s hard to meditate when your drunk or on drugs (obviously). Just not quite the same...

Amy Winehouse was soooo talented!! Such a shame. Very odd how so many great musicians were lost at the age of 27.

Yeah, if you can’t drop it on a dime, then you should definitely think about dropping it altogether. Coffee might be an exception. :)

[Sonia]

Oh dear oh dear, she can't see the difference between being nice or being genuine

No my dear, you should try lighten up a bit, not every one is trying to undermine or hurt you, least of all whodunit and especially not Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

Posted by: Whodunit | December 16, 2019 at 09:44 PM

I didn’t see this till after my last message to you.

Me? You think I need to lighten up? Whaaaa??? Just kidding. People tell me that all the time. But I DO laugh a lot. :)

And, that was a very nice thing to say.

[🍀🍀🍀]

🍀🍀🍀,
Sonia said
I’m not sure who I’m addressing here
OK. sloppy pianist here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAV86zz9cwQ
Was For a Friend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RJVRaW_f1c
My Foolish Heart

Also Manmukh in many other areas and I like 'Likes'

7

[Sonia]

@ 777. Hello

Can you please explain more about how the inner regions are created? GSD has said there are no inner regions.

Are inner regions our own individual obstacles compared to those who have direct access to true awareness?

Posted by: Arjuna | December 16, 2019 at 03:18 PM

What??? What happened to the inner regions??? I guess I’ve been gone so long I didn’t realize they weren’t there anymore... 🤔

[Sonia]

Maybe Gurinder tore them down and is in the process of rebuilding. He does that at the Dera—likes to tear buildings down, rebuild and move them around. Google maps has a hard time keeping up. Maybe he’s just rearranging the inner regions... renovating. Still under construction.

Either way, won’t need Path of the Masters anymore... or else need to update it.

🙃

[Osho Robbins]

@sonia
Gsd has said many times that
1. There are no regions
2. There is no kal
3. There is no dayal
4. There is no individual soul
5. There us no "me" (ego)

What it all means is that there is only ONE
No divisions.
And sant mat teachings are duality
Duality teachings are lies.
An attempt to explain to those who don't understand oneness.
One simply means that apart from the ONENESS all else is Maya / illusion.
Anything that changes, has form, is Maya.
So the test is: if you can see it, sense it, explain it, its all Maya.
All Maya is born / dies
Only oneness is real.
So regions are part of Maya so unreal

[Sonia]

@Osho

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with all that, but it’s a huge shift from traditional RS philosophy... which is fine with me. Just didn’t realize his views had changed so dramatically.

Yeah, definitely need to burn those books...

[Sonia]

So, it’s true—he is a Buddhist! This explains all the Buddha statues he has.

[anami]

Osho--
What about the regions beyond Mind and Maya we were always taught?

[X17]

@Osho

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with all that, but it’s a huge shift from traditional RS philosophy... which is fine with me. Just didn’t realize his views had changed so dramatically.

Yeah, definitely need to burn those books...

Posted by: Sonia | December 17, 2019 at 10:31 PM

Believe what you want Sonia but it's Osho back with his Oneness.

If only you could understand what GSD speaks to the Indian audiences you would realise how disconnected is Osho.

GSD never deniies the existence of Kal and the inner regions. And so too for Dayal, Soul and Ego. He just doesn't discuss the inner region and Kal for him is the perfect Sevadar of God; one opinion about Kal which also isn't wrong.

Osho's concept of Oneness is IT stretched to maximum as in - Ultimately there is nothing but the One. Unfortunately what matters is Oneness in action and which is what Sant mat explains.

[seeker]

Kal is Time and not a being. It can't get any simpler.

[🍀🍀🍀]

Hi
Sonia said:
I agree with all that, but it’s a huge shift from traditional RS philosophy.

me:
Not at all
It is true and it is not true
Both

As long as creation exist reading is fine

I wouldn't underestimate the fact that most books
describe the descent of a Jeeva
next describe the ascent
always symbolically

First Love for what's in Creation
Next Love for The Creator

End result : YOU are the Energy, Shabd for ever, The Creator
a LOVE Accumulator
S/HE has zillions of such schemes

Same non_problem as with free will
You have it at the start and at the end of the "voyage" which doesn't happen
But not when You imagine that something happens

777

[Arjuna]

@ X17

You seem to be an authority on the One ?

Have you seen this One?

Osho is only stating what GSD says over here in the UK. You appear to suggest contradictions in what he says in india and here.

Ps why the silly name ? It sounds like a bus service

[Arjuna]

@ Sonia
I would take anything said on here too heavily. People read books and go to satsang and think they KNOW. Spoiler alert - they DONT.

Best stick to Harry Potter books as the bog man says. Rather than tall about Kal. Great name for a rock band Kal.

We all need constructs and X17 states that Osho has taken the One to its maximum. Dodnt know God had limits . Probably explains the mess he has created with his creation of he is limited. So now the One is out if the way thanks to X17. Who really runs the show?

[Arjuna]

@ sonia. Typo I would Not take...

[Jesse (abroad permanently?)]

"One simply means that apart from the ONENESS all else is Maya / illusion. "

"Apart from" "all else"

Do you not see that you disagree with your own philosophy every time you say those words? If there were oneness, there couldn't be maya, or otherness. There couldn't be perception or distinction.

[Vandana Gupta]

@osho, @sonia

I love what osho explained very nicely..but he forgot to explained what else GSD Said

GSD said

There us no Debt

There us no fraud

There is no Nephew (s)

There is no Court( refused to appear)
There is no farmers Exploitation ( though proof is there)

There is no social injustice (GSD never raised voice against any social injustice though most of the saints rsised voice against social injustice... like all sikh gurus, kabir, ravidas etc)

There is no personal property ( there are many in reality)

There are no friends (Badal, congress BJP , he has close friends everywhere for benifit)

There is no family( All money was given to kids , their wives and GSD wife)

There is no measurement to measure Guru( talking about himself)

..list goes on

So what to believe?????

[anami]

Jesse! Missed ya, bro!

[X17]

Ps why the silly name ? It sounds like a bus service

Posted by: Arjuna | December 18, 2019 at 04:07 AM

Maybe it sounds silly to the silly. But heck you are absolutely right. It's a bus service and I am the driver. Nanak had a jahaz (ship). GSD uses the bus.

You might also ask Science that rocks at comprehending the universe about the bus service called X17.

Have fun buddy.

[X17]

Have you seen this One?

Posted by: Arjuna | December 18, 2019 at 04:07 AM

I could be with the One, even be the One and you wouldn't know.

[X17]

Best stick to Harry Potter books

And

We all need constructs and X17 states that Osho has taken the One to its maximum. Dodnt know God had limits . Probably explains the mess he has created with his creation of he is limited.

Posted by: Arjuna | December 18, 2019 at 04:12 AM

So often people read in haste or read superficially....

@Arjuna, how come you missed the words 'concept' and ultimately there is only The One in "Osho's concept of Oneness is......"

Maybe you also didn't you realise I used terms the One, Oneness and Oneness in action. You'll get there for sure. Just don't flip back. I too have noticed the change in you.

And yes Harry Potter is far more interesting than Santmat. A world of magic, spells, potions and illusions. Just like this world we all live in.

[Sonia]

Hmmm... duality exists in time.

Oneness exists in the “now” outside of time.

I guess it depends on where your state of mind is.

[Sonia]

X17,

I understand what you’re saying. There are a lot of ways to look at or approach the same thing. But I definitely don’t believe “Kal” is the perfect sevadar. I guess that’s where I depart with RS philosophy. But thanks for sharing the Indian sangat perspective. He does share his message a bit differently depending on the audience.

[Sonia]

I think Kal is just a negative concept that represents judgement. The concept, negativity and judgement are very real in duality but far from perfect... far from One.

[Sonia]

We humans really luvs our hells... and the concepts that put us there. It’s like humanity has an addiction to the guilt-anger-fear cycle.

[Sonia]

If time is an illusion then so is Kal. How can one live in the moment when they’re focused on the past. And “Kal’s“ only focus is the past. It’s a damning concept. But it’s just that—a concept. It’s not “real”.

[X17]

Kal is Time and not a being. It can't get any simpler.

Posted by: seeker | December 18, 2019 at 12:48 AM

@seeker,

Literal meaning yes. Probably even Google translate yields same results.

But is it this simple? Answer is No.

Kal in Sant mat is a personality. The ruler of three regions.

If you understand Hindi....... hear this.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BCQZRhNZMLg

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YKMbKPN87BI

And especially for the UK SANGAT (US as well possibly) -

Next time GSD says there is no Kal..... Somebody ask him about this verse by none other than the founder of the path he preaches about/on.

[Sonia]

X17,

Well, if Kal is the “ruler” of the first three regions then why do Satsangis put their minds/concepts/philosophies in those negative realms. There is no requirement anywhere that one has to start the journey that low. I mean, even Satsangis don’t start at the root chakra yet they do start at the very bottom of the mental regions. The very bottom...

And the mental planes/regions are made up of mental concepts. Regions created by a collective conscience of adherence/worship of the laws of negativity. Do you real have to spend hours in meditation to figure out time is an illusion. If you start with mindfulness meditation and stop giving power to your past lives (which are also illusions as is the current life) then you could just focus on the now... the one... the present... the peace. Lots of hours, days, years, lifetimes wasted worshiping “Kal”.

[Sonia]

You know, Brian may claim to be an atheist and perhaps that’s a term that hasn’t been accurately understood well enough. But he “religiously” practices mindfulness meditation daily which is the closest thing you can get to the “NOW”. And God (or whatever you want to call it) is only in the now. I could elaborate but Brian Ji might get really annoyed with me. 😉

All I’m really trying to say here is that I believe mindfulness meditation is far more enlightening than the meditation RS prescribes.

From a metaphysical perspective, if you can truly live in the now then you never really die. (I’ll be dodging arrows now)

[X17]

So what to believe?????

Posted by: Vandana Gupta | December 18, 2019 at 05:46 AM

Though addressed to @Sonia and Osho,

The answer in my view is simple and pretty obvious ----------> believe what you want and that which sounds music to your ear even if imaginary, just allegations, actually unsaid or false. Basically ख्याली पुलाव - being an Indian I suppose it rings a bell.

[🙏 7 🌈]

BRIAN WRONG:
wrote:
""When has somebody using the faith-based method of religion made a spectacularly accurate prediction about how reality behaves? Never. Not ever. ""

me:
I did
I predicted the last CA Earthquake here on this blog
Around 4 hours before it happened
spectacularly even
with the correct >6.5 Richter Value

SCIENCE NEVER DID

My life often & intuivily is based
on my Master Charan Singh MaharaJI

🌈 7 🌈
reference:
Vijay wrote :

777
I noticed this comment of your made and posted at 6 am on the 4th of July.

🙏.
"" Nagging, these Jeevas might result in >6.5 on the Richter scale”"""
🙏
Were you referring to the 6.6 earthquake near LA which happened 4 hours after?

😮
Posted by: Vijay | July 05, 2019 at 06:40 AM

🌈

[Brian Hines]

7, somebody wins the lottery by guessing a bunch of numbers. That doesn't prove the person has supernatural powers. They just guessed right. So your supposed earthquake prediction doesn't mean anything until it is replicated numerous times.

I have an earthquake app on my iPhone that shows the location, date, and magnitude of recent earthquakes. So here's a test for you: leave a comment with a prediction of an upcoming earthquake somewhere in the world. Location. Date. Time. Magnitude.

Then we can see if you really are able to predict earthquakes. If so, I'm sure many scientists will be eager to speak with you and learn from you. If not, you're just someone who pretends to have a supernatural power that really doesn't exist.

[Georgy Porgy]

Dunno there’s something about 777 that’s a bit hyper-intuitive. I wouldn’t test him. Mostly I don’t understand a word, but beware the seer who is intoxicated on the shabd and operating on a different plane.

[Whodunit]

What the hell is 'mindfulness meditation'? sounds like another pseudo new age cockamamie load of crud.

[😮]

I'll ask Our Master Charan

You want to spoil my life?

But U badly read your own blog, if u had
you had not written this non-sense.
about Science
Our science is able to make a spoon for soup eating
and throw a stone on the moon
Ask them something serious like gravity - What's that?

Brian , half an hour of proper SM Meditation without VSOP, Black Label, Château So&So or Oregon weet
is worth more than 100 astral years of same)

77

[Sonia]

Though addressed to @Sonia and Osho,

The answer in my view is simple and pretty obvious ----------> believe what you want and that which sounds music to your ear even if imaginary, just allegations, actually unsaid or false. Basically ख्याली पुलाव - being an Indian I suppose it rings a bell.
Posted by: X17 | December 18, 2019 at 10:45 AM

I watched a documentary about the history of all the different Radhaswami sects last night. Every single master in all of the different sects and branches has modified the teachings at least a little during their tenure as Master Guru (hence the divisions). Not sure how I came across this but it was filmed in the 70’s and is about 45 minutes. Interesting to see all the deras back then especially Beas Dera. It was shot by an American journalist and filmographer (I’m not sure if that’s a word—but sounded better than “a guy holding the camera”).

It’s going to take me forever to find it again but when I do I’ll post it in a comment. It gives a much more objective overview of RS which I think would help open the minds a little for so many Satsangis who have little knowledge or RS evolutionary development.

[Sonia]

Oh wow, what luck! Thankfully I remembered the year it was filmed (1978) so was able to pull it up.

David Lane was the assistant who helped with the documentary. You might have seen this before. Worth revisiting for some.

Here’s the link: https://youtu.be/Ckik_ttKyeA

[Sonia]

What the hell is 'mindfulness meditation'? sounds like another pseudo new age cockamamie load of crud.

Posted by: Whodunit | December 18, 2019 at 11:50 AM

Whodunit,

How old are you??? 🤪

Here’s the definition below. And I would recommend you look up ACIM on Wikipedia page—go straight to the contents section. Don’t worry about the rest as I’m sure it would bore you.

(This was taken from Wikipedia as well—I think it’s a pretty good overview):

Mindfulness is the psychological process of purposely bringing one's attention to experiences occurring in the present moment without judgment,[1][2][note 1][3][4] which one can develop through the practice of meditation and through other training.[2][5][6] Mindfulness is derived from sati, a significant element of Buddhist traditions,[7][8] and based on Zen, Vipassanā, and Tibetan meditation techniques.[9][10][note 2] Individuals who have contributed to the popularity of mindfulness in the modern Western context include Thích Nhất Hạnh (1926– ), Herbert Benson (1935– ), Jon Kabat-Zinn (1944– ), and Richard J. Davidson (1951– ).[16][17][18]

[Jesse (abroad permanently?)]

"GSD never raised voice against any social injustice"

He actually did have an extremely important book about the sex ratio problem in India published, and when I was at Chatarpur satsang a few years ago there was a video before the satsang urging employers to be more respectful and humane to their employees, and even requesting them to help their workers with medical costs.

Both topics rank as serious social ills of modern day India, and both much more in need of addressing than the cliche "caste" issues that every opportunist in the media is unable to stop talking about.

I'm also not a fan of the financial scandals of so many of these gurus, but give credit where credit is due.

[Sonia]

And I’m not typing the word “R....” RSoami”. Maybe I’m superstitious but every time I type that name now something electrical breaks. Last night I typed and my car battery, our Verizon service and our Metronet Internet service all went down at the same exact time. Today, when I typed it my other car’s radio died. Looks like it cannot be resuscitated... ☹️ So, going forward it’s just “R”.

[Whodunit]

Sorry, I'm old fashioned

It sounds like the archetype typically pseudo yankee doodle copycat crash course in stilling thought.
Borrowed traditional practices from Buddhist or Vipassana or Tibetan Buddhist cultures and mangled and rearranging into new age westerners style psychological programs to try achieve a centered mind.

If it works for whoever, good and well use it for what it's worth.

Basically I'm of the opinion if you're given a golden sword wtf you wanna try peeling a potato with it for? Use the kitchen knife. Use the golden sword for what it's designed for.

In other words these new age self help psychological Dale Carnegie style programs are for those who can't get a handle on the real Mccoy.

Alternatively if someone gifts you a Maserati or a Rolls-Royce, you can take out the VW and pretend it's a Rolls, but it ain't.

[Whodunit]

Good to see Jesse giving credit where it's due

Yes GSD has initiated many social uplift schemes from programs that provide upgrading woman's rights in Indian society, to blood bank donations schemes and education + medical service facilities etc.

(Besides his fundamental functions which centers around patronage and management of RSSB at Beas as a philanthropic and spiritual science study center, includes maintaining discourse and Q+A sessions at RSSB centers around the world.)

[Dungeness]

From a metaphysical perspective, if you can truly live in the now then you never really die. (I’ll be dodging arrows now)

Sonia Ji,

Mystics say you are living in the "now" -- that timeless "moment"
between past and future. As a transcendent, timeless entity
there's no other place you could be. You never die. Only the
body does.

Popularly, the "now" has come to mean the "the immediate past".
Our distractability makes it almost entirely unavailable to us. What
were you thinking a few seconds ago? What images came before
you? What about their predecessors in the mental thought stream?
How far back do you remember?

I agree with the power of mindfulness meditation. It's the path back
inside to recovery of awareness, to disentangling from that seemingly,
random 24x7 thought stream, to discarding uninformed prejudice
about and ignorance of what goes on within us.

I believe RS is one of many valid approaches practicing mindfulness
to free us.

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

To put it in a language I think you can relate to, the “golden sword” actually starts past Trikuti. Why do you waste so much time in the regions of the lower mind? And I’m being genuine when I ask that. Why spend so much meditation in realm of time if your goal is move beyond it. RS starts at the eye chakra when it would be a lot better to start at the crown chakra.

[anami]

And now, a haiku by anami...

please don't tell me that
beyond mind and maya there's
more mind and maya

[Sonia]

And now, a haiku by anami...

please don't tell me that
beyond mind and maya there's
more mind and maya

Posted by: anami | December 18, 2019 at 02:26 PM

😂😂😂 Nooooo... that’s the point.

[Sonia]

Dungeness,

You wrote:

Popularly, the "now" has come to mean the "the immediate past".
Our distractability makes it almost entirely unavailable to us. What
were you thinking a few seconds ago? What images came before
you? What about their predecessors in the mental thought stream?
How far back do you remember?

Yes, the meaning of “now” has been lost in modern society. The true sense or meaning of “Now” means outside of time. So it’s not really the now that exists in time and space.

Surat Shabd Yoga can work and has worked for several people but it requires spending a lot of time in time. :)

[Sonia]

Good to see Jesse giving credit where it's due

Yes GSD has initiated many social uplift schemes from programs that provide upgrading woman's rights in Indian society, to blood bank donations schemes and education + medical service facilities etc.

(Besides his fundamental functions which centers around patronage and management of RSSB at Beas as a philanthropic and spiritual science study center, includes maintaining discourse and Q+A sessions at RSSB centers around the world.)

Posted by: Whodunit | December 18, 2019 at 01:54 PM

Yes, Gurinder is very busy but it’s not realistic to think that, at the rate RSSB is growing, another single Master could be appointed and actually fulfill all those obligations. It will most likely turn into a religion. Do you think?

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

You wrote:

Sorry, I'm old fashioned

“It sounds like the archetype typically pseudo yankee doodle copycat crash course in stilling thought.
Borrowed traditional practices from Buddhist or Vipassana or Tibetan Buddhist cultures and mangled and rearranging into new age westerners style psychological programs to try achieve a centered mind.

If it works for whoever, good and well use it for what it's worth.”

For the record, RS philosophy is also a mix-mash hodgepodge of various religions and practices as well. See the link I posted above (and here below):
https://youtu.be/Ckik_ttKyeA

That’s the nature of spirituality. Every age is a “New Age”.

[Whodunit]

You start where you are, at the eye center, tisra til

SM says no need to start below the eye center as other yoga systems practice, like pranayam or kundalini or other forms of yoga below the eyes into the body and lower chakras, because they function automatically as central to the body functions. We are already aware at the eye center so this is where we start.

That is the focal point of mindfulness.

Surat shabd yoga focuses in the eye center through means of focusing as given by instruction by using meditation techniques and method as prescribed by those who have already learned the art of focusing the attention to those areas where mind becomes still sufficient to pass through the eye of the needle.

It is a fool proof flawless system if practiced correctly. But it takes patience and dedication. Not a quick fix get out of jail system like popular new age academic groups who advertise their products as panacea for psychological imbalance.

We have the golden sword yet refrain, or just too chicken, or lazy, or stubborn to use it.

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

OK, I’m going to take a lesson from Schitts Creek and reflect on a better way to explain myself to you...

...working on it.

[Whodunit]

I'm of the opinion Gurinder is fully aware of what is going on in the world and what he's doing.

I don't know if anyone else is understanding the importance of evolutionary change that could very well be on the planetary doorstep.

RS mat may very well be at the threshold of becoming a new or another 'institutionalized religion'.

There's high possibility that humans could be faced with huge adjustments in all aspects of life and lifestyle changes in the next few years or decades or centuries.

From economic to ecological to sociological and other areas of life that are likely to undergo huge adjustments in perhaps the very near future.

So yes he is very busy organizing RS into perhaps an institution to withstand some of the material changes that are possibly on the horizon, and I also wonder or doubt whether any one person or individual would have the physical or spiritual wherewithal to manage and coordinate such an institution single handed.

[Sonia]

Funny, it’s like you think you were sent here to save me, and you’ve never considered that the reverse might be true.

...still working

[Jesse (abroad permanently?)]

"It is a fool proof flawless system if practiced correctly."

Even RSSB disagrees with you and its literature states repeatedly that many will do the practice their whole life and get nothing from it.

None of you clowns read the books or notice the millions of contradictions. The reason is because you're stupid, likely by choice, and you're in a cult, also by choice.

Listen to me. I'm really important and what I say matters.

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

I could write a great deal here but I’ll just summarize it this way in Sant Mat terms (since I doubt you’re ready to hear more).

The journey from the Tisra Til to the Crown chakra is the first three regions. We’re living in the very end of the Kali Yuga. In RS Sant Mat, only after you’ve paid for all of your karmas from many lives you are free to pass to the regions above Trikuti.

Once arriving at that point (when you’re about to pass through Trikuti) you realize your many lives were all an illusion therefore they were never real which makes you then realize who you really are. Because time is not real, your lives were not real and your karmas were not real either. Through that realization you know who you really are—a perfect soul.

You’re just playing one big “mind game”. And it’s a very cruel game. There is no easy quick fix and that is exactly why all of creation has suffered for so long.

Man used to start at the root chakra and work their way up. Now the saints tell us this is not necessary nor is it advisable in our current age. Because we are at the end of this iron age we have been given a wisdom born of great suffering. I can tell you it is by no means easy. It’s nearly impossible. But some have made sacrifices.

If you take a soul that’s been to the causal realm in a past life and start it at the eye center, there will be a sense of disconnectedness and fear. There is still a lot of work to do. But you have to understand the difference between the ego and the mind before you can begin the work. And knowing that difference is where you start in meditation. Because there is a huge difference between the ego and the mind.

[Whodunit]

Jeurgensmeyer is a sociology / anthropology academic who studied and did research in various religions and systems of spiritual study which he wrote historical theses about.

Radha Soami movement is one such aspect of his study which he enlisted David Lane (initiate of Charan Singh of RS Beas) as his assistant in the development and the writing of his thesis on the inception of sant mat as taught by Soami Ji and developing offshoot branches from the source of the RS movement initiated by Seth Shiv Dayal Singh (Soami Ji)

It's not really all that important to know whether Soami Ji passed his mantle of succession to Rai Saligram which evolved into the Agra line of Soamibagh and then split to Dayalbagh or via the teaching through his lineage and that of Soami Ji's younger brother Seth Partap Singh (Chacha Ji) or his nephew Sadarshar Singh who were contemporaries of Baba Jaimal and Baba Sawan Singh of Beas.

Or whether he enlisted Baba Jaimal as his authentic successor to impart the teaching via his favored disciple Sawan Singh through his lineage Jagat, Charan, Gurinder at the Beas Institute of RSSB.

Or whether Kirpal a disciple of Sawan who took his mission to Delhi and the USA and a line under him via Thakar Singh or his son Darshan Singh and grandson Rajinder Singh.

Basically it is important to know whether you have been able to ascertain your personal association with your direct personal teacher in a way that you as disciple can recognize and receive positive results and insights through the process of instruction as has been given directly to you.

[Sonia]

Whodunit, another thing that happens—when you pass Trikuti you connect with all consciousness but to do this there’s a final phase which is kind of similar to what happens to a person when they die. When someone dies, all the events of their lives flash through their minds—sometimes so quickly they’re not even aware of it. In much the same way, when a soul frees itself from the mind and joins “God consciousness” they experience the death of the collective mind where they see all of the suffering and actions of all of creation flash before them. After that, they become “One”. But not every soul can make it past that stage... some cannot bare to look into those eyes. And that is unfortunate for that soul.

[X17]

7, somebody wins the lottery by guessing a bunch of numbers. That doesn't prove the person has supernatural powers. They just guessed right. So your supposed earthquake prediction doesn't mean anything until it is replicated numerous times.

I have an earthquake app on my iPhone that shows the location, date, and magnitude of recent earthquakes. So here's a test for you: leave a comment with a prediction of an upcoming earthquake somewhere in the world. Location. Date. Time. Magnitude.

Then we can see if you really are able to predict earthquakes. If so, I'm sure many scientists will be eager to speak with you and learn from you. If not, you're just someone who pretends to have a supernatural power that really doesn't exist.

Posted by: Brian Hines | December 18, 2019 at 11:08 AM

@Brian,

I might sound rude but that's not the intent.

You seem to be hopelessly ignorant of what the genuinely advanced individuals are capable of. The most advanced science you swear by is not even kindergarten stuff for them.

I'll give you one small instance (there are numerous others but being personal, I will not share. Some involving the same lady referred too below)

Being told by an old, poor uneducated lady living in Dera that our family member born with a medical condition would live through to even past adulthood but for who all top doctors in that field from your USofA opined death by age 6 to 8 years maximum. The individual is in the 30's now despite the lifelong condition. Btw even stem cells therapy offers no hope just in case you start thinking medical advancement since birth could be the reason.

Is this a lottery too - with super odds of 50:50 as somebody can either live or die due to condition? You want to kid yourself saying a yes, so be it.

And the topping being told why born with that medical condition.

[X17]

Even RSSB disagrees with you and its literature states repeatedly that many will do the practice their whole life and get nothing from it.

Posted by: Jesse (abroad permanently?) | December 18, 2019 at 08:11 PM

Send the extract from it's literature and I will agree.

But I believe you are wrong about "get nothing from it". It may so appear to the individual but even failed attempts at the practice is credited to your account.

It may take even multiple lifetimes to head back home but Whodunit isn't claiming otherwise. He says "it takes patience and dedication. Not a quick fix"

[X17]

I'm of the opinion Gurinder is fully aware of what is going on in the world and what he's doing.

I don't know if anyone else is understanding the importance of evolutionary change that could very well be on the planetary doorstep.

RS mat may very well be at the threshold of becoming a new or another 'institutionalized religion'.

There's high possibility that humans could be faced with huge adjustments in all aspects of life and lifestyle changes in the next few years or decades or centuries.

From economic to ecological to sociological and other areas of life that are likely to undergo huge adjustments in perhaps the very near future.

So yes he is very busy organizing RS into perhaps an institution to withstand some of the material changes that are possibly on the horizon, and I also wonder or doubt whether any one person or individual would have the physical or spiritual wherewithal to manage and coordinate such an institution single handed.

Posted by: Whodunit | December 18, 2019 at 07:30 PM

Whodunit,

Maybe GSD is setting into motion the change of Yug.

And one fatality of this has to be RSSB.

A select few from humanity brace yourself for Satyug!!!!!

[Jesse]

"Being told by an old, poor uneducated lady living in Dera that our family member born with a medical condition would live through to even past adulthood but for who all top doctors in that field from your USofA opined death by age 6 to 8 years maximum."

This isn't even a serious comment worth the time I wasted reading it. I've had astrologers tell me much, much, much more specific things about my life that came true, yet I don't actually believe in astrology.

Some old lady making a guess that someone would live longer than medical examination predicted would be valuable only if she could do it with more accuracy than medical science, which she can't, and you have no evidence that she ever could. if we measured dera initiates predictions vs modern medical professionals' predictions, medical professionals would far outperform the guesses of these mystics.

Religion has a great purpose and value, none of which you understand because you're too blinded by your desire to perceive supernatural power in coincidence and anecdotes.

[Simmi Chadha]

@ X 17

"GSD involves in many social injustice "

Have you heard about Marketing..

All big Politicians and Babas used this to show that they are doing good for society like Eye or blood donation camps etc..

But this is not real voice against injustice...

They all do these activities to hide their real black face from public sometime from themselves

Writing books on the issue..do you really think GSD has time to write book..must have written by someone else...GSD is too busy in counting money

GSD never protest openly against any social injustice..he even too scared to have photograph...he never raised voice against any injustice as it will angry his political and religious partners(l used word partner as they are his real partner of benefits)

Ask him why don't he go against BJP govt to criticise their Citizens Amendment La which discriminate on the basis of religion...he will never dare to fo that

GSD himself is corrupte by doing injustice to poor farmers and you never know how many people have been murdered through his gang.(l remember few deaths were contrvotional in dera)

He try to give a different(most time non logical) reason or answer to all issues or questions...people just believe him even still struggle with confusion created by his answers)

I went few times in GSD programs in Dera with my husband who is still fully brainwashed by this organisation and don't care about family.

I never felt that GSD was a real saint and how the dera was developed using dirty methods put me off

One day for sure GSD will have to see his Karmas and black spots on his face will be clearly visible..as he destroyed many families ...God will never forgive him....not sure what will happen with his disciples who are in this hope that GSD will take care of their karmas after their death...they need to wake up until it's too late

[Jesse]

"A select few from humanity brace yourself for Satyug!!!!!"

I'm in Mumbai right now. Have you ever been?

If there are signs of yugs, this place is the clearest sign that kal yug has only just begun. Lots of great people here struggling to survive through hell on earth. And this urban hellscape is growing rapidly, as its creators, and the creators of other hells, migrate across the globe and collaborate with each other to supply destructive chaos to the whole of humanity.

If Baba wants to end this stuff, he'll need to first solve the global water crisis, and then end both capitalism and _______ communism and usher in some sort of utopia based on everything mankind isn't. But he's busy being part of the destruction and looking to get easy money. Find that old oracle lady and ask her when clean air will grace the continent of Asia again.

[X17]

@Jesse,

Btw I knew you were in Mumbai

Enjoy the city where I live and love

[Jen]

Just what I needed, something beautiful to watch, especially as Australia is burning - quite scary.

This YouTube popped up in my Recommended list on my telly and so glad I started to watch and then had to finish till the end. Brought back nice memories of the Dera, also to see so many people doing seva with so much love...

Seva of Love - RSSB - Dec 18, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtlKdbAXZmw&t=5422s

[PJ]

@Sonia There won't be any other masters because it just has to be that family lol

It's a good point actually, where are the Sant Mat masters from Africa? Russia? Australia?

There can only be one I guess, and it has to be at THAT Dera, in the control of THAT family.

GSD's successor will be one of his sons or at furthest a nephew or cousin. It won't be a Peruvian, Irishman, Swede etc.

At least the Dalai Lama -- which I also don't believe in -- is unrelated to the previous one afaik.

[Jen]

The age of fire...

"As of 15 December 2019, the fires have burnt over 3,000,000 hectares, destroyed over 700 houses and claimed 6 lives. In December 2019, the Australian government declared a state of emergency in New South Wales after record-breaking temperatures caused by the bushfires.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/29/countries-from-siberia-to-australia-are-burning-the-age-of-fire-is-the-bleakest-warning-yet

Realms as diverse and distant as Siberia, Amazonia, Indonesia, Australia and California are aflame. The advent of “the age of fire” is the bleakest warning yet that humans have breached boundaries we were never meant to cross."

[Georgy Porgy]

Well actually I’m not so sure about the succession to the top dog being family.

I find it quite remarkable that Charan Singh picked Gurinder over one of his own family.

But then again I suspect embracing this path and spiritual qualities come far easier those not inculcated with western ideas and intellects. Can’t teach an old dog new tricks

[Arjuna]

@ Georgy

Completely fet where you are coming from. I used to suffer that myself.

But western I intellectuals would say that followers are simple minded and brian washed. . It works both ways .

[Georgy Porgy]

Arjuna
Wake up get those forces flowing or not?
Nah, fk the forces, I say do what you feel in your heart is right.
Always the ways it’s been and always the way it will be.

[🙏🌺.🌺.🙏]

#Sonia
You told us all
Thank You

@Brian
You just go where you are now, where your heart is profounlously
Look into it

But still How it works and where God is in all this :

What would an All Powerful Being, (God)

Beyond time, Self Existing
possessing everything , . . still need?

LOVE is the answer, one can never have enough of that.
So S/HE does anything imaginable & un-imaginable
and each resulting quantum or being will transform in LOVE
Via Karma(s) it may take long ( many many Big Bangs) or flashed ( in a nanosecond)
the result is fantastic
You ( Reader here ) are HIM / HER
<3
Even if one Soul per Galaxy succeeds p. year , this is a Giant Stream
and thatt' only for this little universe
of Love
Please ask the AI_20/500QUBIT IBM Quantum Computer - It will confirm.
Even a stone will transform in Love
There is just no other place to go!

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

I’ve seen Gurinder many times outside of Satsang—where no one else saw him—but not inside during meditation. I do my best to block out anything visual during meditation. Definitely have seen some things inside but there’s a part of me that has always been uncomfortable with it which is why I block it...

The 5 names are utterly powerless for me. They have been from day one. And believe me, I gave it 100% in the beginning. Sometimes repeating the five names actually made situations worse.

Clearly, you are died in the blood of RS philosophy. You are a purist—straight by the books, no deviation, no room to question or look at things from a different angle. I genuinely appreciate your sincerity but we are day and night. Even Gurinder couldn’t comprehend my experience when I tried to explain. I’ve found the explanations for my experiences but he never had the answers. And that’s OK. I think that’s how it was meant to play out. Maybe he is on a “need to know basis”...

But it’s all good. I’ve found something that is very powerful and really works for me.

[Jesse]

"Btw I knew you were in Mumbai"

No you didn't.

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

Just read this comment of yours (below)... very surprised to hear you say this. It makes sense—as he once said RSSB was on the razor’s edge of becoming a relain—I believe you are right.

“So yes he is very busy organizing RS into perhaps an institution to withstand some of the material changes that are possibly on the horizon, and I also wonder or doubt whether any one person or individual would have the physical or spiritual wherewithal to manage and coordinate such an institution single handed.”

Posted by: Whodunit | December 18, 2019 at 07:30 PM

[Sonia]

I meant religion not “relain”. My autocorrect doesn’t even speak English anymore!

[Sonia]

Whodunit,

Let me amend my previous statement about the 5 names and meditation, I don’t disagree with RS philosophy... I just understand it differently now. Maybe if I had started with RS Sant Mat before trying it on my own then it would have worked for me. Who knows, maybe by a miracle it would work for me some day. But I’ve been scared away from the inner regions so I’m hesitant to give it 100% again.

[Sonia]

After I first read Sar Bachan (found the book my husband had when I knew absolutely nothing about Sant Mat) a lot of stuff came flooding back to me. That’s when I had horrific attacks that would start at my crown chakra and move like lightening straight down my body. It was horrific and intensified when my husband would repeat his simran around me thinking that would help me. I wasn’t an initiate then and it only made things worse for me. That’s what I meant by the names made it worse sometimes. There’s an explanation for that...

[X17]

"Btw I knew you were in Mumbai"

No you didn't.

Posted by: Jesse | December 19, 2019 at 08:41 PM

I uttered the truth. You agreeing or no doesn't change anything

Btw, I hate Church of Churchless also makes an interesting read.