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December 08, 2019

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MS: The Baba has hung us out to dry
SS: No he hasn’t
SG: Harumph


GSD: 🤗

I’m still stuck on the 20 million followers worldwide part... is that number real?? I thought it was at most 4 million. Maybe they’re counting all the Radhasoami sects.

It’s a different kind of place for sure... has changed dramatically. Maybe they’ll put a Starbucks in... 🤔

Of course, I was joking about the Starbucks.

I’m surprised he hasn’t banned the chai and jalebis. If he knew how good they are he’d probably ban them. 😂 My husband and I used to go to the Canteens at night and get the deserts and chai. Then we’d walk around in the dark, go play on the playgrounds and I’d feel drunk from all the sugar. That’s probably my only good memory from last year.

Mirabai had gifted a valuable diamond to her guru (Ravidas) to build a house in place of his mud hut. Sometime later, she finds guru in same hut and asks about the diamond. The guru told her to take it from where she had left it. He had no use for it.

Again, regarding the land grabbing, someone is lying. Why don't journalists independently research this with objectivity and a thorough investigation? All we ever get are claims and counter claims. No point in asking the Dera, you have to interview the farmers and people complaining they were coerced. I found this article so superficial I didn't bother sending it to Brian when I read it.

Hi Di,

Thanks for the “reminder”. That sums it up perfectly and beautifully.

@Maria De La

Watch this video if you know Punjabi...you will see how farmers suffer

https://youtu.be/J9gdEyBZLyc

Standard measure of Spirituality - poverty.

Mystic - a poor man who claims to be a Godman or one who preaches spirituality

Fraud - a rich man who does the same.


Amazingly enlightened is modern mankind!!!!!!!

A Smart One,

Those are two unhealthy perspectives. Two extremes.

A spiritual teacher shouldn’t be lacking but shouldn’t take more than is needed either.

Sometimes I think the reason the Dera is so austere is because Gurinder associates spirituality with sterility. Another extremely unbalanced perspective.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l_y7OBf-uU&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3C-8LroCTfVw6zT80vRcpzUp2BN6Iy2b0vmmtox8uHCP3LmXuEF-sVhMY
See Radha soami followers in action,attacking court officials.The man talking to media is senior District Magistrate.

Click on blue tab to see video

Guru Ravidas' message is of being content within Lord's Will. Which is an essential quality of a gurmukh according to gurbani and santmat literature. Many find the message inspirational.

"Again, regarding the land grabbing, someone is lying. Why don't journalists independently research this with objectivity and a thorough investigation? All we ever get are claims and counter claims"

I'm far from an expert on this subject, but land ownership in India (and in much of S.East Asia) isn't cut and dry like it is in the West. 66% of Indian court cases are about land disputes. The answer why is perhaps found here: https://www.cprindia.org/policy-challenge/7872/regulation-and-resources

I’m sorry... this isn’t really funny but the way it’s presented is. 😂😂😂

I’ve never seen Gurinder in cartoons before.

https://youtu.be/kbVHw-W3GMc

Wish it had English subtitles.

RSSB doesn’t need half the centers they have. If they truly cared about people they should sell off as many assets as they have to settle the Daiichi Sankyo and related cases.

The overseas centers are completely unnecessary. Didn’t have any when Charan Singh was around and he travelled to other countries to visit Satsangis. Everyone knows it would be phenomenally cheaper to rent a large enough hotel convention center than to have these overseas centers. Even GSD described them as “loss centers” (for tax purposes).

They have solution. Why aren’t they doing it??? It’s the right thing to do. Pay back everyone they and everyone they don’t “owe” simply because this scandal is such a monumental disgrace.

Many thanks for the video link, Sajjan (Singh) but unfortunately, I can't understand Punjabi, I just get the impression there is something seriously wrong, otherwise why would these farmers be so upset?
No Saint would upset these hard working farmers, something is not right.
Thanks too j for the info on the legalities involved. What a tangle of legal chaos! Nightmare!

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/himachal/radha-soami-sect-seeks-nod-to-sell-excess-land/461291.html
"land grab is not clear cut,someone is lying".
Here is an extract from 2012 inquiry commission.
Agriculure land ownership law in india is clear cut.
one must be a certified farmer to buy agriculture land in India,can not accumlate more than 25 acres per certified farmer and must be an Indian citizen living in India.
This tribune story relates to Radha Soami Sect illegally accumlated agriculture land in Himachl pardesh,Government legal advisors making it clear that it would be illegal to allow Radha soami to sell excess land.

Hello Sonia
How can he describe the centres as loss making for tax purposes ?
RSSB is set up as a charity and so doesn’t pay tax.
It’s all for money. Free labour from sevadars who fight for it. Increases value of the centres he buys.
Charan Singh was simple man. Cost RSSB lots of money to rent big halls when he came on tour
When he found out he stopped saying it’s waste of sangat money.
All spiritual tendency has gone now from RSSB. All that remains is power hungry people in charge.
As an organisation grows, spiritual essence is gone. Only worldly people are attracted. How far away from what baba Jaimal created. He only meditated
Now it’s all about money and power. No meditation

RSSB has become a greedy organisation that walks over poor people. No saint in all of history has ever done this.

This video has story of Malik bhago

https://youtu.be/oAaLBpJV-N0

Guru Nanak was against exploiting poor people. How is RSSB doing a good thing by growing at expense of poor people.
Why upset them? Pay them if you want their land. Pay enough so they go away happy and can buy somewhere else. If you exploit then it’s not spiritual but like Malik bhago it is blood money.
Followers of RSSB who don’t speak up are part of the corruption
RSSB doesn’t need good people. They need corrupt people to do their dirty work under guise of seva
If a follower does seva or gives money he is part of it
Now the guru is doing fraud and still the followers support him.
Guru accepts gift of millions and turns against the giver of gift and says he owes him more money. Who can call this spiritual?
Even most simple follower can see this is wrong

Very simple test
Look at those who have been on this path for 20 or more years
And look at sevadars
Does it inspire you?
Is it something to look up to?

If they made no progress
And are not even nice people
Then why you are following?

Clearly it is time to leave this corrupt organisation

All of these financial problems seemed to begin with RSSB’s aggressive global expansion. Every single foreign center should be sold and all of the “siphoned off funds” should be repaid. That’s the last I’m going to say about that. Charan never needed those centers, why should GSD?

Sonia,
RSSB does not have that money
the Dhillon family has it.
RSSB cannot repay it. It would be illegal
to take money from a charity and use it for debt payment

it's not even about debt anymore.
The Dhillons and the Singhs were in a joint conspiracy to siphon off money
into offshore companies.

Once they lost control of the company the matter came to light and now it's fraud.
very serious charge

RSSB is also using dodgy tactics.
the local farmers are saying that RSSB has dug great big holes in their land
so the land had little value then RSSB buys it cheap in open auction sale.

So GSD in that video (audio) is saying "Didn't I buy it in auction - so what's the issue?"

The issue is that RSSB dug holes and devalued the land so nobody else will buy it

all this because of expansion plans.

nothing spiritual in all this

Time to Leave,

Hmmm... well that sucks. Still they should get rid of the overseas centers for a number of reasons.

But what do you mean by “RSSB doesn’t have that money the Dhillon family has it”?

Time to Leave,

In America, Charitable trusts aren’t that black and white and there are different types. For instance, if the donor retains control, any interest that comes from the trust's assets either goes to the charity or is split between the charity and the donor's beneficiaries.

But I have no idea how the RSSB Trust is structured. Or what the laws are in India regarding charitable trusts.

And there’s the complicated issue of each country having a different RSSB trust that complies with laws of that particular country. So... yeah, that sounds like a whole lot of fun.

The money I am referring to is siphoned off funds you mentioned.
The Singh brothers basically did the Dhillons a huge favour and made them into billionaires
You can read it on here as Brian posted it on here at the time.
Now GSD is saying that they owe him more money. Well that is unbelievably silly. How can the persons who gave him a billion dollars owe him more?
He hasn’t paid the billion back as he says it was a gift
If it was a gift then surely when they were in big trouble and needed money to avoid losing all their shares he should have helped them. You can read letter where malvinder is begging him for help

The talk should end if the Guru is real. The paradox will stand lame in front of a Huge Saint but it will be acceptable to those who can believe Him. And RSSB. lineage is that particular category which deserves to be handled with care lest an error happens or creeps in unintentionally by the logical, honest and clear common minds sincerely working on it, in conclusion.

Still it is. not clear whether He was pushed into this underneath ( hidden from public view say, below ground). operations played out in a web of rat tunnels avoiding law of land or. making use of permissible loopholes (fin transactions among shell companies) or just obliged or unknowingly became part of it Or what... only they know exactly or Divine will knows.

Think of it--a BILLION. That's quite a lot... it almost doesn't even make sense.

Maybe when the Tin Man finally gets to see the Wizard he can ask for a heart.

Dharamvira Gandhi faces threats for raising Dera Beas ...
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/dharamvira-gandhi-faces-threats...

PATIALA: Patiala MP Dharamvira Gandhi faces threats for raising issues of farmers’ land being forcibly possessed by the Dera Radha Soami in Beas. Dr Gandhi had recently met the Union Home …

An independent investigation confirms the farmers have been intimidated by RSSB to sell their land.

Dharamvira Gandhi faces threats for ... - Times of India
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/dharamvira-gandhi-faces-threats...

PATIALA: Patiala MP Dharamvira Gandhi faces threats for raising issues of farmers’ land being forcibly possessed by the Dera Radha Soami in Beas. Dr Gandhi had recently met the Union Home ...

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/dharamvira-gandhi-faces-threats-for-raising-dera-beas-forcible-possession-of-farmers-land/articleshow/62542750.cms
Maybe this link will open......
PATIALA: Patiala MP Dharamvira Gandhi faces threats for raising issues of farmers’ land being forcibly possessed by the Dera Radha Soami in Beas. Dr Gandhi had recently met the Union Home ...

Clearly the dera is corrupt.
Drilling holes in the farmers land then buying it cheap
This is not spirituality
If this is what the dera is doing then only a fool will follow this path
Time to leave

The writing is on the wall.
Read it.
It’s been there a long time
Just your belief stopped you seeing it
GSD has never been a true guru
He was always corrupt.
People at the top of RSSB already know and are part of it. They too are corrupt
He first has his people dig pot holes in the farmers land then buys it cheaply. Then claims he did nothing wrong because he just bought the land at the highest bid price.
A government officer investigates and gets fired from his post. How? Because GSD is in with the government. He knows their secrets so they have to support his corruption otherwise they go down too.
The average follower has no idea.
This is about power politics and money.
Only a corrupt person can accept billions from his own relatives then refuse to help them when they need help. Instead he has the nerve to say they owe him money. This man is capable of anything.
He is not even a human forget a god.
Like ram Raheem he thinks he is invincible. The guru in stage is a facade, a show, a fraud. The truth is known only to a few. They leave or become part of it.
All sevadars at the top know this. All the ones at the bottom know nothing. As you go up the chain, you can join the corruption or leave
Time to Leave

PATIALA: Patiala MP Dharamvira Gandhi faces threats for raising issues of farmers’ land being forcibly possessed by the Dera Radha Soami in Beas. Dr Gandhi had recently met the Union Home ...

Posted by: Maria de La Torre | December 11, 2019 at 10:34 AM

What's this fella upto these days?

Nothing came out of his allegations presumably. Looks like even the scandal seeking media (apart from this link that keeps getting pasted in her ad nauseum - whether by you or that Drab Singh or now that one who doesn't leave) didn't give the issue any attention.

Threats carried out so dead maybe??

The writing is on the wall.
Read it.
It’s been there a long time
Just your belief stopped you seeing it
GSD has never been a true guru
He was always corrupt.
People at the top of RSSB already know and are part of it. They too are corrupt
He first has his people dig pot holes in the farmers land then buys it cheaply. Then claims he did nothing wrong because he just bought the land at the highest bid price.
A government officer investigates and gets fired from his post. How? Because GSD is in with the government. He knows their secrets so they have to support his corruption otherwise they go down too.
The average follower has no idea.
This is about power politics and money.
Only a corrupt person can accept billions from his own relatives then refuse to help them when they need help. Instead he has the nerve to say they owe him money. This man is capable of anything.
He is not even a human forget a god.
Like ram Raheem he thinks he is invincible. The guru in stage is a facade, a show, a fraud. The truth is known only to a few. They leave or become part of it.
All sevadars at the top know this. All the ones at the bottom know nothing. As you go up the chain, you can join the corruption or leave
Time to Leave

Posted by: Time To Leave | December 11, 2019 at 09:51 PM

Oh the Enlightened One,

How can we ever thank you for the profound revelations you make here.

We intend to evict this Dera from our association and we wish to enlist your help for this. We are sure you have admissable evidence' to back up your revelations. With this and the resources at our disposal we can fix this Dera once and for all.

Please do share your email address so that we can pursue this matter further with yourself.

Thanks

Dera, your remarks are not only rude, they are bigoted. May I remind you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit?
If you disagree with the evidence you don't have to personally insult Time To Leave. It just shows lack of grace, fairness and intelligence. Why don't you take a course in good manners?

Deras, it's not the same link as you propose in your haste to dismiss the evidence.
The link I posted was completely independent and different to the others. It was corroborative evidence.

There is plenty of evidence for those with an open mind.
There is none for those who are part of the corruption and refuse to see what is right in front of their eyes.

Ram raheem still has followers who think he is innocent despite the evidence.
Those who refuse to see the evidence will continue to believe despite the evidence. They think it is devotion

My email
[email protected]

There is plenty of evidence for those with an open mind.
There is none for those who are part of the corruption and refuse to see what is right in front of their eyes.

Ram raheem still has followers who think he is innocent despite the evidence.
Those who refuse to see the evidence will continue to believe despite the evidence. They think it is devotion

My email
[email protected]

Posted by: Time To Leave | December 12, 2019 at 09:26 AM

Gosh lots of evidence to see but hell the courts who decide don't see it. LOL. Jeez it sure must be admissible evidence as well. GSD's clout only keeps growing is it? Poor exers.

And yes, those with a open mind show no bias - pro or against. So Papa don't preach!!!!!

Do you have any other explanation as to why large pot holes appears in farmers lands around dera beas then dera buys cheaply.
Any explanation as to how Singhs gave Dhillons a billion dollars and GSD refuses to help them and further claims they owe him more money.
Any explanation as to why Dhillon doesn’t come clean and explain to court if nothing to hide

Deras Inc. Great name. Also a pretty succinct take on what these deras and their leaders have become. A big business, spirituality incorporated.

As an organisation grows, spiritual essence is gone. Only worldly people are attracted. How far away from what baba Jaimal created. He only meditated
Now it’s all about money and power. No meditation

Posted by: Time to Leave | December 09, 2019 at 07:22 PM

From mud hut to money pit (that would be a good title for a book).

Deras Inc / Gurus Inc,

Anonom is right, great name/s. Perhaps you could form a merger. Or create a hundred or so shell companies...

"From mud hut to money pit"
LOL
Very Clever, Sonia!

Anonom is right, great name/s. Perhaps you could form a merger. Or create a hundred or so shell companies...

Posted by: Sonia | December 12, 2019 at 03:16 PM

To think we haven't loads of shell companies already is to err!!!

It's ok. Humans err all the time.

From mud hut to money pit (that would be a good title for a book).

Posted by: Sonia | December 12, 2019 at 03:11 PM

Don't forget to share the e-version in here once you are done with writing it.

Dera, your remarks are not only rude, they are bigoted. May I remind you that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit?
If you disagree with the evidence you don't have to personally insult Time To Leave. It just shows lack of grace, fairness and intelligence. Why don't you take a course in good manners?

Posted by: Maria de La Torre | December 12, 2019 at 07:45 AM

What was it we read recently somewhere🤔🤔

Can't recollect verbatim but it was on following lines

Unsolicited advice is usually more about the needs of the giver than the receiver.

Maharaj Charan Singh also said
One day dera will just be another place for people to visit like a holy pilgrimage.
That day is here now.
Just imagine baba sawan Singh was Alive today, what would he have to say about the antics of the current guru sahib
Time to leave

Just imagine baba sawan Singh was Alive today, what would he have to say about the antics of the current guru sahib
Time to leave

Posted by: Time To Leave | December 12, 2019 at 08:26 PM

Sawan stands tall, smiling and proud of the antics of the current Guru Sahib wishing all the time it were He who had this privilege iso GSD.

Everyone saying old RSSB gurus were better

How do you know? You were not close to them
Jaimal left swami and made his own branch...can you hear that any Sikh ot other Gurus desciple left his Guru and start his own branch with same name?

Also Radha Soami was not started by Soami himself(though Radha was his wife)

There are many proof that Soami used to smoke also Hukka(smoking pipe) word came repeatedly in his book but latter changed by RSSB in their virsion of books (Can any desciple change his or her Guru's poetry?)

RSSB broke many time after Jaimal..got many sectors ...
As media was not strong that time and so called Gurus enjoyed wealth and spread false stories for their desciples about their simplicity


Guru Inc must be idiotic to write this.
Baba sawan will never be proud of fraud, land grabbing, taking advantage of poor farmers. Refusing to help Maharaj Charans grandsons who gave him billions. Anything here to be proud of?
If you write something here, it’s a good idea to use your brain before you type.

Baba sawan and Maharaj Charan Singh would never condone this behaviour

Like it said it’s
Time To Leave

Guru Inc must be idiotic to write this.
Baba sawan will never be proud of fraud, land grabbing, taking advantage of poor farmers. Refusing to help Maharaj Charans grandsons who gave him billions. Anything here to be proud of?
If you write something here, it’s a good idea to use your brain before you type.

Baba sawan and Maharaj Charan Singh would never condone this behaviour

Like it said it’s
Time To Leave

Posted by: Time To Leave | December 13, 2019 at 02:52 AM

Truth hurts. Better luck next time.

Fact is Sawan stands tall, smiling and proud of the antics of the current Guru Sahib wishing all the time it were He who had this privilege iso GSD.

A lot more to unfold, Sawan knows. But all as per HIS HUKUM.

Indeed time to leave. For you.

To think we haven't loads of shell companies already is to err!!!

It's ok. Humans err all the time.

Posted by: Deras Inc | December 12, 2019 at 05:49 PM

It’s called sarcasm. That was my whole point—you are incorporated, worshipping at the altar of the god of money with at least 100 shell companies. You know who “err” more than Humans? Gurus. They’re subhuman.

Gurus are not perfect
But at least not doing fraud or robbing poor farmers.
While RSSB not too rich it was okay.
Now it’s corrupt.
Land, centres, free labour, huge donations. Greed has taken over.
Spiritual truth is gone.
Sevadars no longer serving
Seeking power instead
Who wants god? Nobody.
Sevadars are drunk with power trip not Shabd
Only worldly people remain.
Pure souls left
So many scandals now
One could be a mistake but not now.
One farmer can be lying but not all.
RSSB is not a nice organisation.
No true guru would allow all this.
Their priority is money and centres.
Guru is corrupt and RSSB is corrupt
What reason is there to be a member of
RSSB.

Deras Inc, those who turn a blind eye and refuse to speak out against corruption and the exploitation of the poor are complicit in the crime. If you think digging potholes in farmers land and intimidating them in order to force them to sell at rock bottom prices is fine and dandy because the courts do nothing and look the other way, then you're a creep. Do you seriously think the courts are on the side of the farmers and not the all powerful Dera and head chief? It's all politics. It's not some multi million dollar company in the US suing with a legion of lawyers in tow. These are local farmers who only have their land. The legal system is corrupt.
No sarcasm required to state the truth. Am not interested in intellectual gymnastics either.
I will always speak out, whether you or anyone likes it or not, am not here to win a popularity contest and am not a sycophant, neither does your opinion or advice mean anything to me considering you have no empathy with the powerless and disadvantaged. Quite honestly, I think you're off your rocker and there's no unsolicited advice for that, am afraid. Maybe you could try a double gin and tonic?
Instead of reading and responding to my comments, just stick to yours. We will never agree, trust me, waste of time.

Scandal is good it keeps the rogue wolves away from the door of the pure at heart.

All rogue wolves who snap and growl seeking out bones of contention do it here out in the raving wilderness of cyberspace where negative effects abound for snarling scavengers to snap over miserable bones of contentious intolerance.

Those who have the sweet scent and clear sound of the spirit of love know how and where to look for it, they do not care for the snarling of the howling wolves who snap and growl in their ravenous contention out in the indiscriminate wilderness.

Maria de La Torre, it's the arrogance you sense in the words of people like Dera Inc and others like them.

No one seems to ask why GSD bought a huge number of acres in Ontario Canada back in the '90's where they can't hold satsangs for official visits. So they end up purchasing another chunk of land a couple of years ago, close to the existing one and the hall is being built by a contractor, not sevadars.

I guess GSD must have known he couldn't hold satsang there, but he bought it anyways. Sangat's money seva being spent wisely. not.

Whodunit,

If by rogue wolves you mean Sebi, the ED, HC of Delhi, etc. then I hope jail purifies the heart. Will GSD serve his time or try to escape. It will serve as excellent time for him to do a little personal inventory.

The wolves inside the prison will not perceive any “sweet scent” from him.

Whodunit
This is not some made up scandal
It is real
Real farmers being ripped off
What if that was you?
Use your brain

Every writer has their signature way of writing. You can change your name but you can’t change your fingerprint.

From mud hut to money pit. @Sonia

From the recent article in the Print, 2018 Dera expenditure was 420 crore. Income was 406 crore, 366 crore of which was from donations. That is more than 1 crore rupees coming in and being spent everyday at the gate of spiritual journey!
I hope most of the money is being spent for charitable work such as langar and the hospital.
Swami ji, "guru doesn't desire your wealth, for he has the wealth of naam. He helps you spend your wealth wisely, by spending it on the poor and hungry."

A couple of years ago ARC (American Red Cross) was investigated and found to spend only 25% of the donations for the specific cause, while the rest was overhead.

If this is the case at dera, then indeed, it is a money pit.

Di,
The new version of swami ji shabd is

Guru desires your wealth even though he has plenty of his own. He spends his own on business ventures and property and he spends yours in digging holes in poor farmers land.

Longer costs very little as raw ingredients are cheap in India and the labour is free.

I was told the hospital is self financing because the interest alone on money put aside is more than the cost of running.

Unless of course GSD has taken the funds put aside, which would not surprise me.
I doubt if the accounts are accurate as a person who won’t even help his own gurus grandsons is not likely to help anyone else.

An organisation that rips off local farmers and a guru who is ungrateful to those who gave him a billion dollars cannot be spiritual.

One standard for the guru and another for the followers. Hypocrisy.
Time To Leave

Rssb take an example

https://brightvibes.com/1064/en/martial-arts-star-donates-entire-714-million-fortune-to-charity

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