Great comment about RSSB truth-telling

Here's a comment by "j" on a recent blog post about Gurinder Singh Dhillon's involvement in a financial fraud investigation that I heartily agree with. 

Truth needs to be spoken. Journalists, in India and elsewhere, do a good job of revealing truth, by and large. Yes, sometimes they make mistakes, as do we all.

But the stories in the Indian financial press about the RSSB guru's alleged role in financial fraud have been almost entirely accurate, and I've been pleased to share them on this blog. I'll continue to do so. 

Sure, I know that some devotees of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, the religious organization headed up by Dhillon, dislike news that puts the guru in a bad light. The truth shines equally in all directions, though. We shouldn't ignore a truth just because it makes us feel uncomfortable.

In that ignoring way lies dogma, blind belief, and intolerance. Let's be open to truth wherever it may lead. This is "j's" comment, which starts with a quote from another commenter.

"Brother with respect one simple question to all of you. Why all of you are passing your judgements without having a strong evidence or proof , if u have so then why u are wasting ur time here, if have go to the concerned authorities and if not then dont shout and keep ur mouth shut and watch all that happening like a respected spectator. This i request to both who are in favour of dera and to those who are not.Thnx"

Another appeal from the RSSB sangat (my brothers?) to cease and desist from making any online comments about RSSB.

How many people outside RSSB know that 20 or so years ago, this organization's current guru banned any discussion of RSSB on the web? The ban has never been lifted, and the prejudice against any criticism of RSSB has been deeply ingrained in the sangat's culture.

I'm guessing that the same people who are "horrified" at critical comments about RSSB have no problem reading other news sites about events in India and across the world. I'm also guessing they're not writing to these media sites and imploring their brothers there to keep mum and just observe events dispassionately.

Let's be frank. No one here is accusing the RSSB gurus of anything that isn't based on evidence. I don't see any of the wild and lurid accusations against Gurinder here that you tend to find on some Sikh sites.

What we're commenting on is public record: 2 separate parties have accused Baba Gurinder Singh Dhillon of taking huge sums of money and refusing to pay it back. I believe the diversion of the Beas river is also a matter of public record.

If you believe as your Guru does that commenting on those matters of public record is indecent and unseemly, that's your right. But you apparently forget that not all of us here are followers of your guru, and we don't agree with you or him that silence is the best policy.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

Even followers of the Guru can acknowledge facts and the necessity for legal investigation and intervention.

Baba Ji's injunction not to participate in web discussion wasn't censorship, just advice about not wasting time.

What we have here is significant evidence of widespread theft and corporate fraud of what might turn out to be well over a billion dollars. All at the hands of senior members of RSSB.

It is entirely appropriate to discuss and acknowledge the available information, as well as to conjecture about what it means.

Yes, it is painful to consider. But it is factual. And no one can say the outcome at this point. It's unfolding.

All the more reason Brian Ji provides a service to gather, organize and publish the available press. And to have item dialogue about what it all means.

We are humans, not animals, and should act, and expect to be treated as such. Knowledge is important.

[Tim Rimmer]

Yes Brian

Like you I find not just this, but several of j’s recent comments good reading.

I think he/she makes some great, logical, concise points - a nice contrast to the many ‘beliefy’ posts proclaiming the workings of karma, the guru as GIHF etc.

Based on the on-going information from the Indian Press I read on this blog, it appears what j says is FACT:

“What we're commenting on is public record: 2 separate parties have accused Baba Gurinder Singh Dhillon of taking huge sums of money and refusing to pay it back”.

Something’s not right. This is just not ‘cricket’. Let’s hope that justice is served to all parties and the drama get’s sorted.

J made several other comments that triggered further reflection on my part:

j - “I haven't picked up the book in many years, and I probably first read it 40 years ago.
When I first read it I was filled with wonder, if not outright belief. But reading it last night the feeling was one of deep suspicion. Scratch that. I now feel that 90% of Yogananda's book is just made-up stories that were published for the sake of attracting new students.”

I recall having a hard time putting the book down as I read it on a bus trip in the Vancouver area in 1981 - (almost 40 years back). Blew me away too and I couldn’t wait to get into the SRF teachings and visit some of the Centers. Pretty different these days eh? It seems like there’s dirt on just about all the Gurus! (except for Jesse’s Missus’ one :-))

j - “What a strange, dry, humorless and soulless religion RSSB has become. Everything about it is bleak, robotic and antiseptic”.

I found this comment a bit harsh but think there’s some truth to it, though it’s nearly 10 years since I attended a satsang or visited the Dera. Back then it seemed clear to me that the whole thing was transitioning into a religion. For those interested in truth rather than dogma that generates belief - time to shift focus.

How about some Zen metal ? Check out what’s said at 2.05mins:
https://youtu.be/CbI79e5iZKs

Best wishes

[Dungeness]

If you believe as your Guru does that commenting on those matters of public record is indecent and unseemly, that's your right. But you apparently forget that not all of us here are followers of your guru, and we don't agree with you or him that silence is the best policy.

Actually, I believe GSD has commented with a remark to the effect
that he "doesn't owe anything". Hm, I'm not sure who else has
characterized commenting as "indecent and unseemly" other than
blind loyalists. Is this simply your inference about why GSD was brief?

It is public record that the Dhillon family is civilly liable in one of the
two cases cited. Or, is it three? Apparently, GSD, alone and with
alleged malevolent intent, has been fingered for diversion of the
Beas river too. Sorry, the facts on the additional cases aren't clear
to me so I won't opine.

But, the Dhillon family civil liability does not establish who within
the family and/or associates participated in civil and/or criminal
malfeasance, only that they're on the hook for illicit loans. So,
until more facts are uncovered in litigation, GSD may legitimately
allege he "doesn't owe anyone" and had no knowledge of the
illegality.

His brief statement, per an attorney's instructions, was likely intended
to assure RSSB audiences that morally he is innocent. The attorney
probably demanded strict brevity to avoid client missteps in weighing
in on legal nuance or inviting lines of inquiry into areas he had no
knowledge of. I believe that's a fairly common cautionary legal
tactic.

Soaring rhetoric about how GSD shoulda confessed or answered
more fulsomely about what he knew and when, details of what
had "gone down", others' culpability, etc, would be naive. It
would not be legally sound. It'd also be unconvincing... except to
true believers and die-hard loyalists.

This should be adjudicated in court.

[Um]

What truth is searched for and why?

There are millions who even today don't know anything about sant mat or any other teaching, and also nothing about financial affaires and If one would tell them, probably they would shrug their shoulders

Then to whom does it matter, beyond those who are part of that financial affair.??

People here write about the searching the truth but nobody tells why he wants that truth to be found; what finding that truth would mean in his or her life.

Start asking questions about yourself, what did you believe, why did you ask or initiation, what is your concept of a master etc etc etc.... endless are these questions that can be asked.

In answering THOSE questions the real truth is to be found.

The outcome from the legal process will be of no help … not at all … after that court verdict these lurking questions and doubts are still there.

Nothing in your life will change trough whatever verdict.

[Anonom]

Hi Um, you wrote: "Nothing in your life will change trough whatever verdict."

I believe anyone who thinks that is in delusion. If the court finds that GSD and his family members owe money and are responsible to pay it back, then it begs the question: how do he and his family members find that money; by selling RSSB assets? Won't that affect the sangat? If they can pay, then was he not telling the truth about not borrowing any money except from his parents?

Legitimate and reasonable questions need to be answered. I'm hoping it's just the madman Malvinder creating confusion and redirecting. I seriously doubt that. He seems to be doubling down and pushing harder. Proving that GSD is directly responsible for the loans, in my opinion, will be difficult to prove.

To say that nothing will change in your life... is not realistic.

[Mike England]

MS: This is all the Baba’s fault.
SS: No it isn’t
SG: Harumph

GSD: 🤗

[Um]

@Anon

Am I deprived of giving respect, kindness etc to whomever I like?
In the holy books it says honor your parents, it doesn't say only the good and correct behaving ones and not the bad ones.

Am I deprived of the possibility to live the life I always did, taking into account Sant Mat?

Am I deprived from any of the doubts and questions that are in my mind o.r.t to live in general and sant mat in particular?

Etc. etc

In my younger years I would slip into churches, sit in a dark corner and enjoy the atmosphere. People would come and go. Without any intention, I gazed at people, reading their body language. How they kneeled, folded their hands and after 5 or 10 minutes making a cross and leaving again. They all had come for this or that personal thing they would bring before their imagination of their god.

Do you think that the reasons and needs of these people to go to church and pray for their welfare and that of their dear ones would be affected by the sexual and other scandals of the clergy that happened time and again??

Those who cry out about these scandals are other people with other interests.

Maybe this will clear what I wanted to say

[Jesse]

"Do you think that the reasons and needs of these people to go to church and pray for their welfare and that of their dear ones would be affected by the sexual and other scandals of the clergy that happened time and again??"

You can't compare clergy to a "master" or mystic in sant mat. Clergy perform duties and are in no way considered to have overcome all sin. A sant mat guru claims to be sinless, perfect and all knowing.

[Um]

@ Jesse
It is not about clergy or a master or about comparing them, it is about holding on towards the reasons why one goes to church or asked for initiation …. those inner necessities are still there and cannot be changed …. unless …. unless these were not even there from the beginning

Some go to college for nothing else than to gather knowledge, others can have all sorts of secundary reasons and motives to frequent college.

Let all search their minds and hearts about the PERSONAL motives that made them ask for initiation.

[Baba Land Grab]

How poor farmers lands have disappeared under diverted river Beas.
Raw sewerage from dera Beas is being pumped directly into river.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqEPzLQLIok

[Ram Jaani]

these are the facts. none of these facts can be denied
previous guru appointed Gurinder as guru
Nimmi is daughter of Charan
you would expect Gurinder to respect Nimmi
Malav & Shiv are the sons of Nimmi
Out of respect for Charan, Gurinder must look after his grandsons
if not look after, at least not go against them.
these are also facts
Maliv and Shiv made Dhillon family into billionaires overnight
Gurinder admits this was a free gift.
now this is the biggest question
not a court verdict
does Gurinder have any gratitude towards the two brothers who gave such a big gift?
if someone gave me a gift like that, I would be grateful all my life
when they needed his help, he left them high and dry
but one thing he forgot
if they go down, he goes down too
Malvinder is saying truth now because he has already lost his billions
Gurinder has no morals. As head of the family he should have helped the two
brothers who made him into billionaire.
Instead he fights with them makes threats.
Gurinder cannot be a saint
why?
because he is not even a nice person
he might be able to buy his way out of the court allegations
but everyone can see who he is now
when he says "how do you know I am not a fraud?"
now the answer is clear. He is a fraud
a good person would have helped Malav and Shiv when they needed money
to stop bank taking their shares
but he turned away at that important time. big mistake
the singh brothers made him into billionaire and they need help
he shows his true colours
he refuses to help them. no morals. just greed. very bad
how can he be a true guru?
yes he talks on stage, big words.
but he doesn't walk the talk as the saying goes, he only talks.

[Sonia]

Can light “see” darkness? Truth is Light. Light shines away the darkness. Search for Truth and find the Light. Then the Darkness will disappear. But if you don’t search for Truth, you’ll never find Light.

Light doesn’t attack darkness... it shines it away.