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November 25, 2019

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And, BTW, I’m almost 50 so I wouldn’t call them “little girl problems”. Just problems with all the lies Gurinder spews.

Anon,

That’s actually very kind of you. I feel a great deal of peace when I don’t think of RSSB or anything related. I’ll get back to that...

Ah yes good times Mike, let the 7 ride again!

Hi Spence,

(I’m late in responding to this)...

You wrote in reply to Whodunit:

Yes, it's The Old Man and the Sea by Hemingway.

"He is a great fish and I must convince him, he thought. I must never let him learn his strength nor what he could do if he made his run. If I were him I would put in everything now and go until something broke. But, thank God, they are not as intelligent as we who kill them; although they are more noble and more able. "

But I prefer my own allegory.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | December 12, 2019 at 01:47 AM


Thank you for putting that story in context. ‘The Old Man and the Sea’ was one of my favorite books but it’s been 16 years since I last read it. I knew it sounded familiar...

You’re right—some people know your strength but don’t want you to realize it. Battered wives go through this sort of thing. Although, personally I’m definitely not a battered wife. My family and especially my dad (who is incredibly tough) have said only Andrew (my husband) could possibly have the strength to handle me. And he loves me tremendously so I’m very blessed. He is very strong. He’s a very steady person who can weather any storm. But I believe it’s his love that gives him strength.

I’ve always believed that I had to use my strength to fight injustices. And since I’m absolutely intensely terrifying when I’m mad (as anyone close to me can tell you) 😂 😂 it’s very difficult for me to let things go that I perceive to be grossly unfair. I’m also FIERCELY protective of my friends and loved ones and anyone who cannot defend themselves. Instead of beating myself up for being such an intense person maybe I should just embrace it—use it more for good... 🤔

I believe it’s your love that gives you strength. I know it is.

Sonia, as you know, we often see in others a reflection of who we are and yes, I am judgmental. Just as you are. Just as Spence is.

All the judgements you heap on Gurinder are probably just a waste of time anyway because its just you venting your hurt feelings and he would not care, he's just doing his duty to the best of his ability.

'The Old man and the sea' by Hemingway may have been the backdrop to the analogy used by Sam White of Hawaii when he told the story as an analogical reference to how the marlin will swim toward the boat rather than trying to get away when the painful tugging of the hook stuck in his nose gets unbearable after thrashing away for days (lifetime) of struggle.

But it's not the gist of the allegorical story. Because in Hemingways story it's a fight of wills. Of who should triumph over the other.

In Sam White's allegory it's a classic example of how once the hook is embedded in the marlins nose there's no way out. Once the marlin takes the bait it's tickets. Eventually the fisherman will reel it in and the marlin will swim toward the boat to alleviate the nagging tugging of the painful throb in his nose between his eyes.

The fisherman is adept at fishing in the deep sea, he knows how much strain the line can take, how much slack it requires, and how and when it becomes expedient to reel his catch in. The marlin can thrash and cavort to the end of its tether eventually it will swim toward the boat. Once hooked its a fait accompli.

Oh, Jen... you see the thing is I will do everything within my power to make Gurinder hate me. Whatever it takes. My “feelings” aren’t hurt I just don’t want him in my life whatsoever and the only way I can accomplish that is to give him ever reason to despise me. After he “insulted” me last December his person in charge of arranging interviews with him tried to get my husband to convince me to go talk to him. But of course, I refused because I want nothing to do with him and I don’t want his influence in my life. And yes, I will attack him just simply to make him go away. And it will work. I’m very good at getting rid of the people I don’t like.

I’m sorry Jen but there’s just so much you simply do not and are not capable of understanding. My biggest problem with Gurinder isn’t that I am having difficulty letting go, my problem with him is that he won’t let me go.

Is it in the air or in the stars...is it an omen??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR4ReRAQGB8

Only the first 16 minutes, where the lady describes a vision.
Listen attentively …. we don't have all the same ears as we are divided in signs which all handles reality in a different way.

Concentrate not on the man in the vision but on "the power plant"

Funny, funny …. these coincidents

"And he knows this.. How?"

Good question, Spence. I assume Julian Johnson was repeating Great Master. Whether you accept it or not, can we agree that RS orthodoxy equates Satguru literally with the Supreme Being? Georgy Porgy seemed unaware. The Path of the Masters states it vigorously and is fundamental.

But Georgy, I really am curious what interests you in Baba Ji. What's his message to you as a non-initiate?

Hi Jen
You wrote
"All the judgements you heap on Gurinder are probably just a waste of time anyway because its just you venting your hurt feelings and he would not care, he's just doing his duty to the best of his ability."

You're almost there Jen, I think. You said half the truth, it seems to me.

Sonia must vent, must express. We all must, and we all do. That is part of coming to terms, integrating, seeing it holistically. It is no insult to Gurinder. Gurinder is Gurinder whatever that is.

It is part of Sonia's process to deal with what just happened. Just as everyone who encounters trauma must find a way to deal with it. It can take years.

However, it is certainly no waste of time. It is THE most important use of a human being's time. And for this meditation is uniquely helpful. But while helpful, nothing replaces expressing what happened from one's own perspective then and today when one has encountered trauma, of any kind.

And this expression and review, over and over, day in and day out, year over year, helps us. It opens the door naturally to seeing the events from other perspectives, at first just our perspective today, looking back. Then as we ourselves begin to see it differently, we can think about those other perspectives without feeling further burdened, insulted, threatened or harmed.

Some things you don't move on from. You incorporate them. They are part of you, no matter how hard you try to reject them. But they are intolerable, and so cannot handle them and must reject that experience.

That safe place to do all this is CoC. Sonia's doing exactly what she needs to do and is worthy of our respect.

Everyone criticizing her, as she criticizes Baba Ji, are all going through the same process. What others find intolerable in Sonia 's perspective is actually a part of the experience of Baba Ji they will at some point understand and except.

But Sonia and Brian lead the way because they are honest about their experience.

The others who criticize them are not yet able to acknowledge their own situation, so they criticize to push that experience, that loneliness, or negativity, or even Atheism as far away as they can.

Your rejection of others who criticize Baba Ji is also your own process of not yet dealing with your own experience fully yet.

So, Jen, you must proceed as you do. Something inside compels you to, and I think you must. In time something in you will not be so threatened, and you will consider it was different. But it is trauma, for good or bad.

But whether we experience trauma, or peace, or unimaginable bliss in his presence, it is all life - changing. In that sense no Initiate gets through this without trauma.

And that takes a lot of time and expression, and dialogue for us tiny human beings to find a way to digest the immensity of the experience.

Nuclear power can create a world or destroy it. All depends upon how we deal with it, how we learn about our, how we experience it.

So honor all of it.

Our destination is the same, progress.

Hi Whodonit.
You wrote

"But it's not the gist of the allegorical story. Because in Hemingways story it's a fight of wills. Of who should triumph over the other."

Precisely. His Will or your will.
What you fail to see is your own thrashing and fleeing, and the guy in the boat holding the line, letting it out, reeling it in, letting you pull the boat, yanking and swimming as far away as you can, day and night, then reminding you of the basics not truth, pulling the line back in a bit, constant in his duty, sitting in the job Master placed him in, assigned by Radha Soami, is that old fisherman Brian Hines.

You are here on the hook of Truth, we all are. And it's not easy for any of us.

Oops typo, should read "reminding you of the basics of Truth..."

Hi Spence,

I kind of dreaded reading today’s comments so I started with yours first as I knew they would be the most objective. Thank you for your insight and understanding.

Yes, I had a complete meltdown yesterday. And I’m sorry I said some of the things I did. This is a highly charged emotional time of the year for me. And adding to that we’re two pieces of information that my husband didn’t share with me about last December at the Dera. It’s not his fault. He wasn’t obligated to share with me the information that he did but in some ways it would have been extremely helpful if he had—much sooner.

Regardless, I’m having a very difficult time making sense of Gurinder and RSSB now... like way more than ever. On the one hand according to some people’s accounts he sounds like an actual “saint” and then on the other hand I have my 14 year experience on the path looking for answers as to why I felt such overwhelming fear all of the time. When I left the path the fear went away so the logical conclusion was it had to do with GSD/RSSB. But now I don’t know. I can either deny other people’s experiences or I can accept the possibility that they may be real and for some reason things just didn’t work out for me. Then I would have to leave with may questions that could never be answered. It’s not cut and dry. It certainly isn’t back and white.

I loved Gurinder until I grew to believe that he was actually the source of my fear. And then, naturally I felt deceived and just wanted to find the “truth”.

I hate being angry. It is so draining and completely burns me out within a day. So, I don’t want to be angry. And I really don’t want to attack people. I have reached the conclusion that there are some questions which I may never find answers to. I have to accept that and find a path that gives me peace.

And yes, all of this takes time. It’s a process. Sometimes a very painful process, sometimes not. We will see what the future brings.

Just typed that comment from my phone and it’s difficult to proofread from my iPhone, so I hope you can decipher the typos. :)

Howdy Anami

Not much to say. Suspect I come at things from opposite background to most on here. Grew up pretty much atheist, but over time and with certain experiences, feel that is not right. I think organized religion is complete crap, it irritates me actually but I got more tolerant over the years. But there is something deep deep at it’s core which a few more spiritual souls recognize. It’s an inner contemplative recognition which is why rssb makes sense to me. So I started chatting with various ppl and a few made sense on a deep level, it just clicked, so I read about mysticism a bit more and I think there may be something to it. Rssb seems like a good path to follow, and the guru makes sense to me, speaks in simple practical terms. I was amazed, because I was expecting the sort of new age crud that Brother Spence preaches from the pulpit about orbs of lights etc - none of it. But more then that, he just seemed really turned on. You watch ppl with others and you can see they know what the are doing or not. He most certainly knows. Treats ppl as they ought to be treated. I feel his flock are in good hands. And if a few overinflated egos get punctured in the process, Just what the doctor ordered for them more than anyone. And if the magnificent 7 old aunty sevadars bless Osho with a tap on his snoz for causing trouble, it’s a gift from on high.

Yeehah!

Hi Sonia
If you feel shame, it should be when you find yourself humbled in overwhelming bliss. Then you can be ashamed of having lived without that. But who can be blamed? A blind child needs to be held, loved, and guided, not shamed or bullied.

So if you feel shame as if you did something wrong, there is zero spirituality in that. If Baba Ji behaves like a jewel thief or a jerk, a villain or a hero, it's fine to acknowledge it.

He can be all those things. Everyone has multiple sides.

This argument others make, "if you are in pain it's your own fault," is not only cruel and unhelpful. It is pure evil. People use it all the time to avoid stepping forward and helping. They use it to avoid their own pain. They use it to avoid being a decent human being. Terrible crimes were committed in history because those who saw it told their wives and children "just keep quiet. There must be a divine reason for this to have happened. Just bury you feelings. God is tesring you. Don't say anything. Don't do anything. Keep the faith. Deny your feelings. Debt your thinking. '

These aren't human beings, they are sheep.

And God is testing you. He /She wants purple who can think and speak.

So, keep going, keep expressing, until you find bliss, and then express and celebrate that, too.

Go with your gut. Baba Ji has earned all the praise and condemnation. Not all the excuses and justifications. Those are all just excuses and justifications people give so they don't have to do their part. So they can remain sleepy sheep at sleepy town dera.

Having a master becomes their excuse to blame others for being in pain? Having a Master turns people from thinking adults into spoiled unthinking bullies? At the human cost of others?

So, just ignore thier bullying and proceed to honor your own compass.

Think of all the people who said "I don't think we should do that!" but were silenced by people shaming them for complaining.
And then really bad things happened. Like the corruption in RSSB and all the cover up.

A real Saint would apologize.

And in the absence of that, the flag is raised that we have a fraud.

You might not have a fraud. You might have a Guru who doesn't mind sparring with real people to get them to use their voice and stand strong against the zealots. If Baba Ji is your sparring partner, keep swinging. He loves a good strong arm.

So put your boxing gloves back on, and keep punching. You've landed all the right blows. But you've got a couple hundred more to go.


One more point, Sonia
You wrote, "I hate being angry. It is so draining and completely burns me out within a day. So, I don’t want to be angry. And I really don’t want to attack people."

You are not attacking people. You are fighting ignorance. For that you need a good punch and a very sharp sword. You have monsters to kill. Monsters who have enslaved a whole bunch of Satsangis and twisted their minds. So go slay the dragon. Don't worship it.

Hi Georgy
I do appreciate your perspective on RSSB and Gurinder. It seems you find everything fine, and that those questions and concerns about conduct and corruption, you believe are without merit, and therefore have some personality flaw behind them. That would include me, based on your comments. But that is of no concern.

But it is your own praise and defense of Baba ji that raises this question sky high : Why haven't you been initiated? What's the barrier? What's holding you back? Clearly you have only admiration.

What prevents you from asking for initiation?

I read your comment and in all sincerity would like to know your reasons. I'm trying to connect the dots in some reasonable way, assuming you have been completely honest in your praise of Baba Ji, and your criticism of all of those who question his integrity. Why would you even hesitate to ask for initiation?

Sonia you say: "I have my 14 year experience on the path looking for answers as to why I felt such overwhelming fear all of the time. When I left the path the fear went away so the logical conclusion was it had to do with GSD/RSSB."

This is the problem of putting someone on a pedestal and its what satsangis do. We then have so many expectations and also if we are a perfectionist we put too much stress on ourselves. Also, fear could actually be a warning if you are intuitive and picking up on Gurinder's energy/vibe. I've never had an interview with Gurinder, only with Charan. I was very meek and mild at that time and actually when I look back he seemed to be very bored lol. I don't think we should give our personal power away to another. Interesting how fear is a natural emotion and a survival mechanism. Be kind to yourself sister!

Georgy,

Wow... you really opened up. Not like you.

Anyhoo, I really don’t understand how anyone thinks Spence has an over inflated ego. This is baffling me... I mean, sure I do but not Spence. 🤷‍♀️ Spence is just sincere and polite.

Whodunit,
The fisherman is adept at fishing in the deep sea, he knows how much strain the line can take, how much slack it requires, and how and when it becomes expedient to reel his catch in. The marlin can thrash and cavort to the end of its tether eventually it will swim toward the boat. Once hooked its a fait accompli.

Posted by: Whodunit | December 13, 2019 at 11:01 PM

What baffles me most about the Master/initiate relationship today is that quite often a person is not directly initiated by the Master but by a representative. And they may not ever meet or see their Master. This part seems a lot more like religion where you get baptized by a Priest or Parishioner and you never actually meet Jesus.

The only difference I can see is that the RSSB Master you were initiated under is actually alive on the earth whereas, in the case of Christianity, Jesus isn’t. The way RSSB is set up today with regards to initiation would be like Jesus having someone appointed to baptize disciples in another state (they didn’t have cars so that would be a good distance) and then those disciples never meet Jesus (even though he’s alive on earth) and Jesus may not know any of their names.

So my question is, what is the difference other than one being on earth and the other in Heaven? Or is that the only difference?

Simple. You answered your own question. Don't take rocket science to understand the difference.

Jesus is dead 2000 years plus, (so nobody knows even a jot about who he was or looked like or sounded like or spoke in which tongue, or whether he died on a Roman cross in Jerusalem or in a cave in Srinagar) as is Mohammed, Buddha, Zarathustra, Mithras, Nanak, Kabir, Tegh Bahadur, Ravidas etc and etc.

The guru who initiated you, (whether by proxy via representative or directly in person) isn't.

The hook stuck between your eyes is a reality, deny it, reject it, react to it, try absolve it or denounce it, do whatever you will to eradicate it or remove it. It's there till you face it and accept it for better or worse, it ain't going nowhere till the one who placed it there reels the poor sucker in.

If you like you can scratch the last sentence. I was actually being a little facetious. You can take it any way you want to, either it's the poor sucker or the lucky bugger getting reeled in, disciples choice, come screeching cavorting flapping and excruciatingly, like a bound chicken headed for the chopping block, or come singing with rapture and delight like a bride to the alter.

Either way it's a done deal, the choice, like the pudding, is in the eating, and is hers or his to savor at the feast.

Spence

The monsters are in the minds of you and Sonia, nowhere else.

What has the monstrous monster guru done to you personally? Don’t go on the hearsay of others or news reports, what has he done to YOU? Come on spit it out, it’s time for honesty Brother Spence.

As for this court case, it’s innocent until proven guilty. Even if found guilty (unlikely) what is the monstrous crime perpetrated?

It’s not genocide, murder, rape, abuse or any other monstrous crime. No adultery, racism, deviant sexuality or any other depravities that may offend your godfearing holiness.

It’s not even an accusation of rssb (non-profit) money being misused - which might justify another sermon from the pulpit.

Nope, it’s none of the above. Its all a corporate dispute. Involving a for-profit family business that the guru was born into (probably to his dismay) and his cousins were managing. The guru is not even the reason for the debt arising in the first place. The only reason the guru seems to be involved is because one of the managers is a drowning man who has implicated the guru, along with 50 or so other individuals (presumably family), as receiving company money.

Imagine you Brother Spence sold a car to Sister Sonia and gave part of it to your devout brother Georgy. Sister Sonia discovers a few months later that your car is shit and wants her money back. You say sorry, it’s buyer beware and that’s the risk of doing business, but the courts say no Brother Spence you must repay for whatever reason. You say but I no longer have the money. What is pious Brother Georgy guilty of? How do you recover money years after a bad business deal.

All this supposes there were loans in the first place. Brother Georgy says please don’t talk rubbish about loans and drag me into your unholy mess - pay your own business debts Brother Spence.

Rule no 1 never ever mix business and family. Unfortunately, it’s a family business so I dont think the guru could avoid this.

As far as monsters go, I think you are away with the fairies, and prone to conspiracy theories generally as are most religious folk.

@ Whodunit
>> The hook stuck between your eyes is a reality, deny it, reject it, react to it, try absolve it or denounce it, do whatever you will to eradicate it or remove it. It's there till you face it and accept it for better or worse, it ain't going nowhere till the one who placed it there reels the poor sucker in. <<

Compare it with:
[1] Our grandmothers warning:
"Little man don't you ever sell your soul to the devil"

[2] His uncles remark about initiation as stepping over an threshold of the French foreign legion … before you are free, afterwards you have to stick to the rules.

[3] Most people have ample idea of what they are letting themselves in and their motivations are mostly related to the world. One teacher in the lineage divided seekers in 8 categories all having selfish motives to ask for initiation, except the last one, the gurmukh.

[4] the remark of his uncle that this bi-lateral contract cannot be ended uni-lateral and that he, having obligations towards the "owner of the sheep", the lord, and NOT!!! to the sheep, wull do his job as he deems fit, even using his dogs.

So yes this might easily create fear, as owner never have sheep for the sheeps pleasure.

In castaneda " the great eagle" feeds on the consciousness of hose who die. Not strange a tough, seeing around in nature where every creature stays alive by feeding on on anothers live. Food being the remaining life-energy as in a battery.

They all llike to talk about love but the reality of life might be more grim. Often and strange enough when his uncle would make these eerie statements the audience would laugh their hearts out but there is nothing funny in slavery.

When I hear satsangis make remarks as you do, there is a tone of amusement in their voice, what good has happend to us, we ARE reeled in …. hurray, hurray! Its kind of weird, unnatural rection.

Yes … we are poor suckers … we are used … used for what spriitual?

Remind my grandmother words. … sorry Sonya, if you read this.

Yep that’s the reason I’m worried about applying for initiation - dunno if I want a hook in the nose. Might be a blessing or a pain, but a hook is a hook.

And Whodunit ….

If a person has himself dancing from joy been hooked up like a fish or brought to the "stable" for further "transport", he fails to use the other offers" of eternal hail from other religions, mystical traditions and even the the non-duals schools and atheists … and … as you know …. failing to accept such a "generous" offer will be at your own costs …. you have to burn in their hells for eternity or face other types of eternal torture in the name of LOVE.

Mind you … the creator shouting at you in this or that religious form at gun point …. I LOVE YOU …… and than in low voice .. but if you don't accept my love I will destroy you after having tortured you.

That is how the the nobility offered "protection" against eath in the world and the religions in heaven, the criminal organisations do the same.

@ Georgy

That is a very powerful post. Very mature. You mention monsters . GSD ain't one .

But there are a lot of twisted monsters on here. I will respect brian and not mention names.

Remember they are taking on a master. Myriad good karma are going down the toilet. You know what beats me there are so many here who comment as experts thinking they know GSD. We dont even know ourselves or when we are going to die.

All the best buddy

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"The monsters are in the minds of you and Sonia, nowhere else."

Actually Georgy, they are in each of us. They are our ignorance. And that ignorance can take the symbolic form of an enemy, such as you are making of others, or Saints, such as some, superstitiously, make of Gurus.

But we agree that Gurinder is just a human being doing a job. The Gurinder in your head, however, is the only one you will ever know. That's true for each of us. That is the Guru we should slay. Maybe doing so we will come to learn of the real Baba Ji, whomever he actually is.

I see you did offer an answer to my question about why you haven't applied for initiation.

You wrote
"that’s the reason I’m worried about applying for initiation - dunno if I want a hook in the nose. Might be a blessing or a pain, but a hook is a hook."

This is where the Marlin allegory falls apart, since the fish was already on the hook the day it was born.

Your delay is also due only to your own issues.

But if you truly understand the meditation, then there is only upside. It's just a great sword for you to destroy your own inner dragons, just as each of us must do every day.

Amy form of meditation is a great start. If you can bring yourself to take any step at all. Mindfulness is a fantastic step.

Or dancing around in your PJs! That's meditation also. It's real.

But the real issue is whether you are in touch with your own demons to understand the necessity of daily inner work, whether worshipping Master or dancing to the flow of energy that moves through you.

Until then, you may project demon qualities upon all those you disagree with. Because the more you do this, the more intimate you become with those demons, however you put make-up on them and dress them to look like me, or Sonia or anyone you choose. . And when they begin to exhaust and consume you, then you may understand you carry them with you. They are your toys and no one else's.

And that is where we all need help, and some great tools.

Then you won't hesitate for two seconds, and not indulge those demons in throwing rocks at anyone.

You are already on the hook, dear Georgy Porgy. And have been fleeing and thrashing about for years.

Georgy Porgy,

Uh..., jolly good, old chap?

No worries, Cousin Zigzag runs a de-initiation service, "1 crore INR a pop, heh heh, and all the tasty Woodbines you can smoke."

Georgy,

I’m not saying that you should or shouldn’t apply for initiation but (now that I’m past my few days as an atheist) I believe that no one can give you what you already have. You are already connected to the source of your soul (otherwise you wouldn’t have one). You just need a teacher that can show you who you really are. Maybe Sant Mat is ok... maybe the problem is just the way it’s packaged. Whatever works for you.

—armchair guru 🙄

Hi Pema Taj,

Yes, I was initiated by proxy—Gurinder initiate. And there are elements to Sant Mat that ring true for me. But the only thing I’ve found that actually tames and controls my mind/ego is when I practice the principles from ACIM. It’s unfortunate for me and those around me when I don’t. 2019 has been the most challenging year of my life. Not the worst year, but the most challenging. Although a few profoundly wonderful things have happened this year as well. 2020 — a fresh start.

In some ways ACIM is just like Sant Mat and without my experience in RSSB it would be hard for me to decipher the meaning in the text of ACIM. But they’re are a few areas where they are opposite. So, it’s interesting. There’s another thing in my life—a spiritual support group and that’s encouraging.

I actually sat in meditation for about 20 minutes yesterday. I even repeated the names (I managed to remember them). I thought, well I’ll give it a chance and just practice 3 different philosophies at once and see where I wind up or if I have some sort of “profound revelation”. 🙂

Are you an initiate? I assume you’re a satsangi? I feel like it’s offensive to call Satsangis “Rhadasomis” to their face. But when I’m talking to other people (even to my husband sometimes) I’ll refer to Satsangis as Radhasomis.

And after all these years I still can’t spell Radha/Rhada!! I always have to look at a book or online to remember where the h goes. Lol

Whodunit,

Hmm... I wonder how many men would find wives if they took that approach. I guess that’s why they have arranged marriages in India. 😅

Hi Georgy
You write
"Imagine you Brother Spence sold a car to Sister Sonia and gave part of it to your devout brother Georgy. Sister Sonia discovers a few months later that your car is shit and wants her money back."

She paid for the car with money she stole.

So now the court demands of her repayment. She doesn't have the money. She gave it to Brother Spence and Brother Georgy.

Now, because these monies were stolen, you and I are legally and morally on the hook to return the stolen monies.

The fact that we didn't do our due diligence before accepting all that stolen money is on us.

We took stolen monies. Now we must repay.

Sad, but common.

Yes, if you to stolen funds, all business matters aside, you must return that money.

Basic ethics and law.

RE Brian’s rules regarding on or off topicness

If we think Brian is wrong we can say
“Oh no Sir I must say you’re Wrong”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_DVS_303kQ

All things must pass
Into the night

Hi Sonia:

You wrote:
"What baffles me most about the Master/initiate relationship today is that quite often a person is not directly initiated by the Master but by a representative. "

Your relationship with that turbaned dot on stage thousands of rows ahead of you is nill. Put aside all notions of superstitious supernatural happenings. Most of those are imaginary and a distraction.

The only connection is the concept the teacher represents as the Perfect Living Master as it is represented symbolically within you.

So, everyone has a "perfect living master" within them. They follow it slavishly. Without thinking, subconsciously. It is there own mind. They follow it without question, perfect loyalty, perfect obedience. Every word, scripted by that "perfect living master." It's already there, and for everyone. It drives our lives.

The Marlin was hooked a long time ago, and we don't like where this is going.

So, how to get unhooked? Where is true freedom?

The idea of a perfect living Master is a great idea. The liberator.

The Sant Mat Guru might be getting people hooked.
The True Saint gets them unhooked.

This is what Brian Ji is doing all the time.


That there is a higher source of total authority than what we have right now in our mind. It's a great hope. That teacher represents something that appeals to us as greater and better, more powerful. Liberating.

And we have hope that devotion to them, and the concept of perfection they represent, may help us grow from within and beyond these chains we find ourselves in. They are stronger than our weaknesses. We can trust them when we cannot always trust ourselves. It's a great notion.

But that being is within.

And so long as we take inspiration from a true teacher, our new Inner Guru is being informed by the outer one. They become the same to us.

However, that Perfect Living Master is only the one inside us. At best they wear Gurinder's face, or Mahjaraji's face to humor us. That's where we live, within this mind. The outer one is filtered by mind, who informs the inner one.

And that inner one is already there. But we need a point of focus to find Him/ Her within us, hence the human representative. The teacher.

In fact the inner Guru has no form at all. He/She takes on the form we have consciously adopted as "My Perfect Teacher". Within, they project themselves from life itself that lives fully within us, in the form we associate, the symbolic form, with purity, perfection, life, living spirit, etc...

The idea that they are perfect is important, because we understand they are different from our conscious selves. They are before these higher level programming languages, foundational. They are our true machine language. And we are attempting to re-write the higher level code to more perfectly match that Machine Language. Because everyone around us is messing with our higher level code. It's an open language, and we can be manipulated. Higher level language code is being written and inserted into us by our friends, neighbors, leaders. We think differently all the time without even being aware of it. We are accepting things today that a few years ago we would have proclaimed false and bad.

All that matters is your own inner Master.

Your inner Gurinder doesn't need to be at all like the outer one.

Could be a different person altogether. It just needs to be a reliable source of inspiration and guidance for your own development. Because the fact that something does or doesn't ring true comes from within YOU. It is that which is always there, always watching over you. Your crap detector is already there and fully functioning. Just listen and learn. Strip away the false, and what is left is the real.

And any form of personal development, inner and outer, are just means to clear away the false code and unveil the purity of that living Truth within you.

You do not need to explain, or justify any of Gurinder's behavior, since your own Inner Master only looks like Gurinder because that is how you have painted him. You can paint him differently, when you find a better symbol of the inner perfection.

And if you see something terribly wrong in Gurinder, flee. Turn around. Find that perfection in the source that rings true within. Do not internalize his corruptions.

All this corruption we see demonstrates the outer Master is nothing close to a Perfect Living Master at RSSB these days.

So long as the Gurus played their role as figurehead symbols of something important within each of us, followed the vows, taught the values with truthfulness and integrity, they helped people find their own inner Master. But when their personal behavior infected the purity of the teachings, then that becomes a corrupting influence.

We all must have some symbol however, even something abstract. The mind communicates within itself in symbols. It is built on code. That's just a matter of inner language, inner communication.

I M H O (one mind reflecting upon itself with another).


Mike, I heartily agree with you. It is always possible to say that someone is wrong. I do that all the time. I say that President Trump is wrong. I say that the RSSB guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, is wrong. That's free speech, free thinking, free reasoning.

But to quote the RSSB guru, it's also true what he says: "It's my way or the highway." If you want to belong to RSSB, you follow the RSSB rules. If you want to be a Trump appointed official, you follow the Trump rules. And if you want to comment on this blog, you follow this blog's rules.

It's amusing to me how religious believers are so ready to follow the rules of their chosen faith, but rebel against the commenting rules I've set forth as the Six Commandments. I wonder if those people also break the rule in their country of driving on a certain side of the road. By and large, rules help promote harmony in life. As a dog owner, and as a parent, I'm well aware of that.

Well, also as a husband. I've learned the rules of how to load the dishwasher, and I follow them in loving obedience to my wife.

(She commands that dishes and silverware be put in the back of the dishwasher first, while I had the ridiculous idea that because eventually the whole dishwasher will fill up, it makes as much sense to load the front of the dishwasher first. But I came to see that it is a bit easier to put stuff in from back to front, since that way there's a clear open space to place the silverware and dishes.)

(She commands that dishes and silverware be put in the back of the dishwasher first, while I had the ridiculous idea that because eventually the whole dishwasher will fill up, it makes as much sense to load the front of the dishwasher first. But I came to see that it is a bit easier to put stuff in from back to front, since that way there's a clear open space to place the silverware and dishes.)

Posted by: Brian Hines | December 15, 2019 at 11:03 AM

🤣🤣🤣 hilarious! Well done! Good husband. 😂

Spence, sometimes I have to wait till I get to my computer to be able to reply properly to your comments... 💻
⌨️ Q W E R T Y 😉

Whodunit,

Have you considered that perhaps the way Sant Mat in the Punjab views the Master/Disciple relationship is actually based on cultural roles that go back hundreds of years. And nobody has stoped to question this? Culturally for decades... centuries in India husbands were almost “lord” of their wife. Arranged marriages, obedience, submission. It’s like all of that “forced love” has carried over into the way Sant Mat interprets the Master’s role and many masters seem to feel it’s their right to treat their wives/disciples this way. And they never take time to question this behavior. They never try to look at it outside of their cultural paradigm. I do not believe the lord showed up and said to any so called master or guru that “the end justifies the means”.

And I’m not being facetious. I’m just asking you to consider looking at this from a different perspective.

Spence Tepper is spinning you a mighty long laborious yarn.

You don't need to listen to all this rigmarole mental gymnastics schizo mumbo-jumbo, just listen to your husband, he has the inside scoop of the inside story of how it cuts, and how true and how deep. That is why he gets proper intensity of deep attention darshan and drishti, and other moron mental issues and psychoactive schizo's don't.

All this other song and dance routine of all these psychological tricks and effects by the know it all dream merchandising merchants leads nowhere but more confusion than you have already.

Let's see what happens with the sage of pseudo psychic phenomenon if this comment somehow gets published on the 'uncensored open thread' where freedom of opinion and speech is supported by the power of logical reasoning.

Sant Mat has it's own form of traditional values handed down through the teaching by teachers from soami ji Seth Shiv Dayal to Baba Jaimal, Baba Sawan, Sardar Bahadur Jagat, Huzur Maharaj Charan and Baba Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

Each had their own style and stamp of imparting their messages to their respective congregation of disciples, based on the times and conditions prevalent during their tenure as spiritual head of the institution. That is why a living teacher is necessary to convey the current teaching to the current students and audiences.

Gurinder's style and content is far removed from that of Soami Ji or Baba Sawan Singh yet basic tenets and spiritual concepts remain intact within the husk of the outer portrayal of the so called 'tradition'.

Your reaction to the traditional roles and external values come from your western style influences, that's possibly why Gurinder told you that you harbor first world issues.

Basically Gurinder has stripped a huge amount of the 'tradition' out of sant mat.

He has also been very active in uplifting women's rights and conditions in India and further afield.

He has demoted any notion of religiosity from the overall content of the direct teaching to the extent of almost ridiculing his own personal authenticity by challenging audiences to determine for themselves whether he's genuinely worthy of his guru / teacher status or not by suggesting how would you know whether he's not a fraud?

He has also suggested why not burn the books or sell the buildings if they don't foster inner development of the inner meditation and practice.

So the traditional aspect of the Punjabi influence in RSSB might be present due it being the majority of followers, as these are the core backdrop conditions to the need of the people who flock to the teaching.

But this is the outer manifestation of the background you are interested in analyzing, it does not have much to do with the inner meditation process between an individual disciple and his or her individual relationship with his/her teacher directly.

Spence you say: "You're almost there Jen, I think. You said half the truth, it seems to me."

"So, Jen, you must proceed as you do. Something inside compels you to, and I think you must. In time something in you will not be so threatened, and you will consider it was different. But it is trauma, for good or bad."

You also mentioned: "That there is a higher source of total authority than what we have right now in our Mind. It's a great hope. That teacher represents something that appeals to us as greater and better, more powerful. Liberating."
................

Hi Spence, I no longer believe in a guru, trying to practice taking the middle road, understanding that experiences are just happening and they are neither good nor bad and they have nothing to do with me. The real me. The centred me. Just like everyone else if they can find that centre.

Thanks for your message which at first annoyed me because its kinda preachy but there you go! I've accepted what you have to say and appreciate there is much wisdom in your words.

@ spence .

There are no regions so dont waste time talking about something you have no idea about.

Seriously mate its embarrassing. Laters

Hi Arjuna
You wrote
"There are no regions so dont waste time talking about something you have no idea about."

Well, I have experienced the regions. From a very young age. And they fit the descriptions in spiritual literature. Which I read about as I grew older, after the fact.

They exist for me.

I'm guessing they don't exist for you. That's fine.

I can't say they are real for you. Or anyone else. They are real for me.

The world is bigger than you, Arjuna, and bigger than I. It's OK to say we don't fully understand it.

Sometimes, in meditation, I see the stars, or the moon. It's a perfect HD view. I can just sit there quietly listening to Bhajan watching the stars or the bright moon. And the stars are very bright indeed. The sky is full of them! In my inner sky, if I focus on any one point of light, the stars multiply until the entire sky is filled with light. I'm moving through them!

So if I want to enjoy them, I just have to remain a little non - chalant. Just mindful, thinking mostly about Master being there with me. And then He arrives also.

Where does that come from? It must be within my own brain.

It's real to me. It is persistent.

But my reality and yours can most certainly be different.

However, I like saying I don't know about things I don't know.

But things that are personally important or beautiful, naturally I love to speak about.

Everyone has beautiful experiences, each of their own kind, inner and outer, physical, of the heart, and of thought. We witness connections with each other that can be equally beautiful.

So don't worry about my experiences of grace and beauty. You are a human being, and as such have been blessed with plenty of your own.

I would never tell you they aren't real. I would celebrate them with you, and through your telling, through your joy in remembering and re-telling, experience them with you vicariously.
,
I know the regions as well as any one knows the streets of their own neighborhood. But where they came from, what they really are?

Who can say. I do question a beautiful sunset, a glowing lake, the clouds, pink at sunset. What are they really? Where do they come from? I question what, where, why, how, when. But I don't question that they exist, for there they are. I enjoy them.

We live in our own minds, Arjuna. And you live inside yours too. That's the only world you will ever live in. You might as well get to know it better before trying to mind - read others ' experience.

the preface of the Yoga sutras of Patanjali by Taimni on how to dig into the field of Yoga, is an refreshing read:
https://www.yogastudies.org/wp-content/uploads/Science_of_Yoga-Taimni.pdf
Just an couple of pages

Hi Whodonit
You wrote
"You don't need to listen to all this rigmarole mental gymnastics schizo mumbo-jumbo, just listen to your husband,"

LOL...

Why don't you let Sonia make up her own mind?

Then you wrote
"But this is the outer manifestation of the background you are interested in analyzing, it does not have much to do with the inner meditation process between an individual disciple and his or her individual relationship with his/her teacher directly."

That's not supernatural mumbo jumbo?

And all the superstition behind it?

I'll tell you who the first whistle-blower should have been in the whole Daichi / Ranbaxy / Fortis / Religare mess. If what you wrote has any truth in it. It should have been an RSSB satsangi. It would have been an RSSB Satsangi.

It should have been the Master. He was entrusted with their souls. They stole millions, he let them.

The criminals, whomever they turn out to be, will be a subset of the RSSB Satsangis who participated. That includes Baba Ji, his wife and sons, the brothers, Sunhil and others. All participants, either actively or passively.

There is zero morality in that.

If there is a schizo mumbo jumbo it's in trying to reconcile these crimes with some shred of credibility in RSSB.

A credibility eroded with each attack you make.

RSSB leadership may have a notable history of good deeds. But tonight there is much shame. Not because human beings make mistakes, but because RSSB is taking no leadership in doing the right thing, and that starts with a public apology to the people their key members stole from.

What is real spirituality all about if you can't give yourselves to Shabd? Shabd which doesn't tolerate lies. Shabd which compels you to speak the truth even if your attorney implores you to secrecy and silence, even when speaking out lands you in jail or worse. Because once you are in Shabd nothing false can exist there. You can't lie, you can't wear two faces. You can't even refuse the request of a beggar.

But RSSB, as evidenced by members here, is far separated from Shabd, even claiming the marriage still exists when the divorce papers were certified by Sat Purush long ago.

Whodunit,

Wow, you must have been digging through the archives. My “first world problems”?? What exactly are my first world problems? Is depression a first world problem? If so, India must be a first world country.

Is suicide a first world problem? Again India is much richer than I thought.

And yes, while it’s true Gurinder has made it clear that he has no empathy for mental illness (he said to a questioner last Christmas, “you don’t want to know what I think about people with mental illness”) and while he doesn’t initiate schizophrenics, I am surprised at how many mentally ill people he has accidentally initiated. Lol

Listen to my husband? I think not. His experiences were his and his alone. What’s the opposite if Drishti? One time I was sitting close to Gurinder during a different karaoke session and after he gazed into my eyes I got the most severe panic attack of my life that lasted several weeks—I had to take heavy medication during that period to cope.

Nonetheless, I don’t have that kind of fear in my life anymore. I must say though, while we’re on the subject of crazy psych babble. I one time saw Charan (after he passed away). I walked past him and the look in his eyes was pure drishti. I carried that bizarre experience with me and would call on him when I was experiencing my worst moments of panic disorder and he would bring everything to a halt immediately. He had the power to make all the fear stop instantly. Gurinder never had that power. He even said that I was very precious and at one point asked me if I wanted a different Master.

Yes, that sounds like absolute psychobabble but it was also phenomenal and it taught me that I don’t have to live with fear.

I honestly don’t know if Gurinder has ever seen his Master on the inside or if he has actually traveled through the regions because he never talks about them and has a very different take on meditation than his master or the previous masters. I do know what I’ve seen and the miracles I’ve experienced with regards to Sant Mat. I never doubt for a second that Charan Singh and Great Master truly love me based on my experiences. But I’ve never seen Gurinder inside and he has never shown me any form of love whatsoever so you can’t really blame me for being skeptical can you.

Arjuna

Yes, I agree with you - I don’t think he’s a monster either , far from it. He may be a saviour to many. And I also agree we don’t even know ourselves.

Do I have to keep being mature ? Or am I allowed to mention the 7 ever again?

Whodunit,

To be fare, Gurinder did grant me an interview one year. It lasted about 8 minutes. I don’t know what his going rate is but perhaps I should pay him for his time. Psychologists here make about $150/hr. So, since I don’t want to be indebted to him perhaps I should mail him a check for $18.75. Does that sound reasonable?

For Spence

If you're supposedly immersed in shabad then you don't need to utter one more syllable, nor write one more damning word about anything to anyone.

Then you would remain mum and shut up about all your supposed inner spiritual experiences because you would be cherishing them for what they are, and the purpose for which you had attained such a state of deep enlightened reverence in your heightened experience.

You can't have it both ways, to be scathing and irreverent to the degree of obnoxious chastising judgment on the one hand, and reveling in your deep state of enlightened awareness immersed in soothing enraptured shabad on the other.

If you have this innate urge to moralize and cast judgment on the supposed crimes of an institution, to accuse culpability of the entire RSSB organization and administration for the alleged heinous crimes, (by your morally justified decree), of select individuals who, by association got caught up in a close knit business complexity of events between close family members. And by account perpetrated through activities and deals between high finance interests and acquisitions of international corporations such as Daiichi Sankyo and Religare / Ranbaxy and subsidiary companies, and thereby try and attach your supposedly flawless moral standards to appropriate such alleged atrocities (again by your individual inaccurate system of judgment), to unilaterally declare unequivocally that certain specific individuals are culpable for the maladministration of public funds, then I have doubts you are immersed in shabad to the extent that you boast you are.

Either you are spiritually enlightened or you claim to be the moral watchdog of RSSB as your personal validation of ethical jurisdiction.

If in your state of moral indignation you have personal insight as to the immoral behavior of the RSSB administration and its members, to accuse them as the main instigators and perpetrators of these heinous crimes you are so morally indignant in expressing your abhorrence to, then go tell it to the judge and testify your findings to the court through consulting your inner evidence that you have gained by your flawless knowledge you have attained through your immersed experience in shabad.

Sonia I don't know, it seems reasonably obvious you have a deep seated love / hate relationship going with Gurinder.

You either love him, or hate him, I'm not sure if you're sure which. Perhaps try and make up your mind.

I think most people are somewhat confused and irrational about a lot of things. A lot of us have issues, if we didn't I doubt we'd be thrashing around here on this little rock hurtling through space trying to survive from being eaten by others, and in turn harming and hurting others either by default or by innovative design.

It seems ultimately nobody has much choice in a lot of their circumstances, it seems we get thrust into predicament probably of our own making, but not necessarily by our own conscious wishes rather through consequences of a series of actions that have brought us to where we are.

So between this and that condition we strive to be the best we can to make of our lives and circumstances. We can judge ourselves harshly or we can judge the others with the yardstick we place them under through our imperfect judgment.

Big bang retold: The weird twists in the story of the universe's birth
It certainly wasn’t big, and probably didn’t bang – and the surprises in the conventional story of the universe's origins don’t end there

SPACE 11 December 2019
By Daniel Cossins

WHATEVER you do, don’t ask where it happened. “The most common misconception is that the big bang was an explosion in a particular place,” says William Kinney, a cosmologist at the University at Buffalo in New York. “That’s just completely wrong.”

The best evidence for the big bang is all around us in the cosmic microwave background, the radiation released once the universe had cooled sufficiently for atoms to form, when it was about 380,000 years old. And that is the point: everywhere in today’s universe was where the big bang was. “It’s not something that happened somewhere, but something that happened everywhere, including the space you happen to be occupying now,” says Dan Hooper at Fermilab in Illinois.

When cosmologists talk about the big bang, they are talking about an extremely dense, hot state that existed around 13.8 billion years ago and which has since expanded and cooled to make the universe we know today. Extremely dense and hot – but not infinitely so.

The idea that the universe was created from an infinitesimal speck, known as the big bang “singularity”, comes from winding the showreel of an expanding, cooling universe backwards and not stopping until we get to a beginning. But, unfortunately, our current theories of physics can’t deal with space and time on such unfathomably small scales. So we can say nothing sensible about the moment when the universe was a single point, if indeed it ever happened. “We may just have to come to terms with that,” says Kinney.

“The big bang didn’t happen somewhere"

Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24432601-200-big-bang-retold-the-weird-twists-in-the-story-of-the-universes-birth/#ixzz68F7thjKh

Hi Whodonit
Ah, Clash of the self - righteous titans!

You wrote
"If you're supposedly immersed in shabad then you don't need to utter one more syllable, nor write one more damning word about anything to anyone."

I guess you would know right?
LOL
The Shabd compels action. If only it were the end. I could just live in that place with Him. But the Shabd is intolerant to cruelty. So it compels us.

You wrote
" If you have this innate urge to moralize and cast judgment.."

Isn't that what you are doing when you attack those who disagree?

We should be discriminating. Maharaji taught that. And forgiving. But never ignoring harm to innocent people.

You wrote
"to unilaterally declare unequivocally that certain specific individuals are culpable for the maladministration of public funds,"

I don't know who is to blame, except that all the audits point to RSSB initiates of Baba Ji, and of course all the stolen money moved through his accounts and those of his family. But I don't really know where that money ended up. I just think that the captain of the ship is responsible for the actions of his crew. And a good captain steps up and takes responsibility.

You wrote
"If in your state of moral indignation.
"

No, that must be your indignation.

I'm not indignant. Baba Ji, Shivinder and Malvinder, Sunhil, Shabnam, we are all family. And we should all pull together. But that may include an intervention. No more stealing. And let's all chip in to pay the bills.

Family comes together, and good family comes together on a foundation of Truth and Love.

That's what Shabd is. The very one source of truth and love. The two are inseparable. This is how we avoid doing harm, or remaining silent when harm continues. Remaining silent while harm is happening makes us part of the problem, Whodonit.

It is honesty and transparency that makes mercy and brotherhood possible.

Whodunit,

“Sonia I don't know, it seems reasonably obvious you have a deep seated love / hate relationship going with Gurinder.”

Why do people keep saying this?!?! It is NOT a love / hate thing. I don’t hate him.


What is real spirituality all about if you can't give yourselves to Shabd? Shabd which doesn't tolerate lies. Shabd which compels you to speak the truth even if your attorney implores you to secrecy and silence, even when speaking out lands you in jail or worse.

Except speaking truth to children* may be unwise. You give
them the truth they're capable of understanding and are
prepared to accept. That's the most powerful expression
of truth.

GSD for instance said "I don't owe anyone". It was brief, clear,
unambiguous. It would even resonate with a hotshot attorney.

The court will adjudicate and rule who's been naughty and
who's not. Children that we all are, that's the truth we should
be prepared to accept unless your superpowers glean
higher truths mere courts can't.

* "children" may include attorneys.

@ Georgy

What the hell. Go for it mentioning the magnificent 7. It Is funny

@ spence .

Yes I will try and learn from you and stop analysing other peoples experiences. One bog catch though- I will do that as soon as you stop doing that to GSD. So back to square one homie. Practice what you preach son. You are being found out on here and its embarrassing.

Whodunit,

Ok, maybe you’re right about a few things... I don’t know. I’ll have to think about it. The way you reframed it makes me sound crazy so it caught me off guard. Anyway...

@ sonia

Who knows what bad karmic deed that you was to live through - that he removed by looking into your eyes.

Just a thought. You need to chil out abit on here attacking some who are just trying to help you like Jen. Right feel free to have a go at me.

We have all been through shit.

@ sonia

If you dont hate Him. Let it go woman for your own sake! It's a lot of baggage sister

"Why do people keep saying this?!?! It is NOT a love / hate thing. I don’t hate him." Sonia

Well you could have fooled me, go back couple of days and reread your own comments about how you feel about Gurinder, I don't really want to go scrounging around looking for them to highlight the level of disparaging anger you expressed, if it's not love or hate then what the hell is it?

It certainly isn't dispassionate or indifferent.

Ambivalent, contradictory, confused perhaps, but detached unaffected indifference certainly not.

Hi Arjuna
You haven't actually led a squad have you?
Moment of truth.

Dungeness
Treating people like children instead of adults is what children do. It's all they can do.

Only an adult can behave like one.

Arjuna, may I ask you?

Earlier in the thread you warned commenters "against taking on a master" (GSD), then criticized Spence for talking about inner regions that don't exist. In my introduction to Sant Mat, around 1985, Master and Inner Regions went hand in glove.

Without inner regions what is Baba Ji master of? What's the essence of Sant Mat and Baba Ji in your more modern and proximal view? I'm only confused and trying to understand. Thank you.

Hi Whodunit
You write

"... if it's not love or hate then what the hell is it?

"It certainly isn't dispassionate or indifferent.

" Ambivalent, contradictory, confused perhaps, but detached unaffected indifference certainly not."

Why do you need to label Sonia with an emotion?

Maybe she is simply correct in her assessment.

Or is she only capable of an emotional reaction?

And therefore invalid from the start?

I'm afraid you have revealed more about your own prejudices than you intended.

@Arjuna,
Yeah... I think you’re right on both counts.

Whodunit,

You’re right. I’ve been putting the blame on the wrong person all along. That much I finally realize. When we give our power away we become powerless and all we’ve accomplished is creating an atmosphere of victimhood.

But it should be noted I’m utterly incapable of being indifferent to anyone or anything. Me dispassionate? Never. I wouldn’t even begin to know how to be detached or unaffected. It’s my hallmark weakness. In some cases it’s my strength but in this case it’s definitely a weakness.

“Let love be your strength, not your weakness.” Someone once told me that within the first 10 minutes of meeting me. I have always wondered what it meant and only now do I know.

You know, it would be incredibly helpful if these “wise souls” were a little more specific when giving advice. I don’t expect details from a fortune cookie, but humans have the ability to explain things a little better.

Even so, detachment just isn’t my thing. So, oh well... ♎️☀️ ♎️🌙 ♏️ rising

You know... it’s pretty liberating. I’ve been happy since I got back from Dera last year. And by happy I just mean no more anxiety or panic attacks. But I’ve had no motivation whatsoever. I made a few trips overseas—Hong Kong and Shanghai. Made my yearly trip to Seattle to visit my best friend and then to Scottsdale. Other than that and walking my dog each day, I’ve probably spent 75% of the year in my room. Not depressed or anxious, just really unmotivated and quite content to be alone in my room. I’m usually a really hard worker but this year a lot of apathy set in. And admittedly I drank every evening from last Christmas to this October (oh please... save your judgement—I refuse to feel guilty but I did finally quit drinking again). Anyway, my point is blame is draining. Anger is draining. They take soooo much out of you. Maybe letting go of all these things will help me get back my fureur de vivre.

@ sonia

I should know as these demons plague me. I wish I could let go of various things so I can move forward. But it's a struggle.

@ spence

It's the past and doesnt matter. I was never a leader but cannon fodder.
Hope that helps you in getting back at me.

Sonia you are coool.

@ sonia

No harm in a drink. I had a few last night at his new bar which opened near us. Paying the price this morning.


Dungeness
Treating people like children instead of adults is what children do. It's all they can do.

Only an adult can behave like one.

Hey, we're all children, right... unless you're claiming to be 100%
unimpeachable, stable genius type adult with superpowers to
glean higher truth.

Keep it simple. Gurinder did when he said "I don't owe anyone."
The rest is for the court to adjudicate. Don't jump up and down
in court and claim you know what the moral verdict should be.
The bailiff will be instructed to give you a timeout.


"Behold, we know not anything;
I can but trust that good shall fall
At last — far off — at last, to all,
And every winter change to spring.

So runs my dream: but what am I?
An infant crying in the night:
An infant crying for the light:
And with no language but a cry."

--Alfred, Lord Tennyson

@ Sonya

Ye, yes the fury of anger can be quite draining … after all it can be like riding on an wild horse.
Sometimes I had to go to bed after an successful ride.
Good old days …. hahahaha.

In my opinion there is no God that cares what you do, whether you drink or not, it is up to you.
But if one wants to achieve a set goal, it can be good advise not to do it … in general!!

See the difference between walking with the dog and all alone … after a while you might come to apreciate it. Sitting in a local inn in the countryside, having something to drink, gazing through the window and nobody that draws your attention starts o open up things.

Afterall what is Zen more than just sitting??

Thegiant Sant Math Truth in the physical realm
here clearly explained

Anybody , any blogger. . . .
https://www.facebook.com/ankhaton7/videos/3034598219903440/?t=6


777

If U like it too, . . tell me !

@Marko
Well... not sure about anyone else but I’m sure my dog would agree with you. I told my husband there’s a fine line between contentment and apathy. Then he told me there’s a fine line between comatose and dead. 😂

@Sonia
A good one hehe.✌


@ spence. Still love you man!

Without inner regions what is Baba Ji master of? What's the essence of Sant Mat and Baba Ji in your more modern and proximal view? I'm only confused and trying to understand. Thank you.
Posted by: anami | December 15, 2019 at 10:13 PM


The answer is Yes & No
They are of Your own making, . . in the immensity of 'time' (what not exists) it's a tiny nanosecond that regions exist!


And because more than one Jeeva is in this business, . . they are vaste
and interconnected ( by karma ) like algorithms

Now we are in the "Anybody tells me Nothing state"
except in real/reasonable Meditation or
during HIS Darshan
(refer to: One and also Sonia's husband and thousands more )

Silly question of my own :
These screens at the Dera, . . are they 4 K. or 8K. ??


777

You see
Accepting you as you are and all the anger evaporates.

And if anyone can't or doesn't accept you, flaws and all, it's toxic, so we separate from that.

Hi Arjuna
You are an honest man, even when it hurts.

I'm proud to say I know you, even if my own flaws are a source of frustration.

It's clear you have changed / grown. But I will spar with you now and then.

@Arjuna,

War is soul destroying. I guess that explains why most militaries give their soldiers/officers/cadets all the free alcohol they want when they’re off duty.

A lot of people can handle alcohol. Apparently I’m not one of those people so my family has this come to Jesus meeting and forced me to join this secret society of non drinkers. It was the right thing for them to do but would have been kinda nice if they could have waited till after the holidays. ;)

I hear ya, though... for me champagne quiets the voices in my head that are constantly telling me how imperfect I am.

Again, though. I don’t feel sorry for myself. Not sure if you’re familiar with Allie Brosh (check her out she’s hilarious). I can relate to pretty much everything she writes.

Guys in the mean time reading this blog you can check my music peace. And hope share.peace

https://www.instagram.com/stickeehandzz/

https://soundcloud.com/stickee-handzz

https://youtu.be/ul6wed6cRcs

@Arjuna
Not to sound pretentious—I like white wine to... or rather, I likeD white wine too. But I’d always get a hangover with red wine or anything that wasn’t clear. 🤪

Hi Um,

Exactly!!

What is more Zen than just sitting?

My friends and family are like, what are your plans? What are your goals in life? And I just look at them in confusion and say, “this?”. This—I honestly don’t desire anything anymore. My husband’s like what you want to eat and I’m like, I don’t care, whatever you’re having. And then he’s like, do you need from the store and the answer is always no. There’s nothing I need and there’s nothing I want other than quiet solitude. But apparently that’s not “healthy”. 🙄🙄🙄

And your also right about the goals thing—it’s a bit more difficult to reach your goals when your drinking. They say it takes a good while to get back to “normal” after you quit.

Hello Spence

I just felt bad as I had been an ass. I'm big and ugly enough to write that. I am changing but it's hard when a the structures you once believed in are crumbling . If you know what I mean

We are brothers seeking truth and I forgot that.

You are a good man too. And dont forget that

@ Sonia

Snap - I avoid red wine as it impairs me lol. And whisky- I dont like the idea of not being in control.

I had a lot of J Old Spice Rum over the weekend its gorgeous. Google it to see if you can get over where you are lol.

Gosh - us talking about wine and whisky is going to send some satsanghis into extra mediation tonight ha

All the best


Gosh - us talking about wine and whisky is going to send some satsanghis into extra mediation tonight ha

Arjuna, you're in good company!

“Drink wine. This is life eternal. This is all that youth will give you. It is the season for wine, roses and intoxicated friends. Be happy for this moment. This moment is your life.” --Omar Khayyam, mystic

777--
"Yes & No..."

Spence--
"We live in our own minds..."

Good insights! Thank you.

Arjuna,

Yes, indeed. Perhaps we’re doing them a favor.

Gurinder in all of his wisdom (and eerily accurate insight) alluded to the fact that I might become an alcoholic when I talked to him last December. If I only I had been humble enough to listen. 😂

Turns out he was right and that was just a freebie he threw in from left field to our Q&A discussion. A further testament to his psychic powers. I’m not being disrespectful here... I truly find it funny. I mean, he was 100% right and yet I still got to enjoy nearly 11 months of daily drinking while the drinking was still good. My friends who no longer drink explained to me that it’s fun for a while... but then you start feeling consequences and eventually your life goes to shit. I quit just in time. It did help the year go by much quicker. 😂😂

I know that Satsangis are a bit horrified at the thought of another satsangi or exsatsangi drinking. And GSD seemed to have very strong opinions. Of course, how he knew that I had a few drinks in 2018 is beyond me. So, being the rebel that I am I decided to take a few drinks up a level or two or three. In retrospect, it definitely wasn’t the brightest idea I’ve ever had...

That said, it sometimes seems like most Satsangis are more understanding of people who have affairs than anyone who would willfully imbibe in the devil’s drink. Just for the record, I didn’t have an affair—but again no judgement.

Still vegetarian though—mostly vegan and always will be. But one day I think I may have accidentally had a pastry brushed with egg. 😱😱😱

@ 777. Hello

Can you please explain more about how the inner regions are created? GSD has said there are no inner regions.

Are inner regions our own individual obstacles compared to those who have direct access to true awareness?

I have read several comments recently, whereby I infer that some of us do not have the easiest, or smoothest of times.
I will not add my woes to that, but hope that my Mike England and Dr Eugene Genetics posts amuse as intended.
e.g.
MS: I should never have lent Uncle Baba that money for shares.
SS: Stop moaning you embezzling cry baby.
SG: Harumph.

GSD: 🤩 Crore Blimey

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