Open Thread 26 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

I appreciate that off-topic comments have been going in a previous Open Thread. As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Jen]

Am I a Mystic?
10 Telltale Signs of Mystics

1. You value experiences above all else

2. You question existence

3. You are comfortable with uncertainty

4. You value intuition

5. You are uncomfortable with spiritual hierarchies

6. You have your own set of rules

7. You value internal growth

8. You believe you are a conduit for power, not the source

9. You believe love is the source of life

10. You don’t know everything

https://www.gaia.com/article/am-i-a-mystic-10-signs

[Whodunit]

To answer Jesse or Bobby Fischer Stan on this thread

What else can you do?
What did Simon or Philip or John or Thomas or Mary do once they've strung up and nailed their brother / teacher / friend / benefactor to a cross?

Nothing else to do but follow in their footsteps.

Or let me put it to you
What would you have me do?
Rent my clothes and chuck ashes on my head?

Love is not based on faith alone, you who have lived with love should know that it's not a dispassionate commodity or bargaining tool, it's a verification of experience, it is or it isn't, there are no rules of what to do attached to it.

[Michael]

Melancholy
God exists only on our heads.
All the noble qualities we assign to God, are just projections of how we would like the World to behave.
For me it’s survival and happiness.
The inner worlds of our minds eye are part of the unexplained and unknown consciousness.
The same place where dreams abound.
For better or worse we live our lives in sickness and in health.
But when the big day comes
Who will remember my name
God?

[Jim Sutherland]

Michael writes,....”Who will remember my name? God.

:Me:
I can offer my Conjecture, or belief , on whether the Ultimate Creator either cares, or even knows about me personally, you, or Planet Earth. I doubt if He/She/It micromanages the Mission He assigned to His Creator, The Logos. Shabd, i.e. The Word. I think He assigns all Chores of Material Manifestation to The Logos. Once The Logos creates any living specie, on earth, then, each individual,spicie requires a soul to Progress each member of the specie forward, once The Breath of Life has been Breathed in to the Fetus , and it becomes a LIVING soul. Then, each soul possesses Eternal Life, and it’s Journey begins. Eventually, after millions of Reincarnations as well as Transmigrations, each soul eventually becomes a Human specie which is assigned a mind. Only humans with minds create Karma, and are accountable to first, their HSS, ( Higher Soul Self) which is accountable to The Logos, Who is accountable to the First Cause, Anami Purush. It’s a Chain of Command Spiritual/Material Operation, of Life, death, reincarnation, until mind/souls , are drawn to return to the Pure Spiritual Realm where ONLY the soul with out the mind exists. That Realm is above where the HSS, or Causal Body exists, which archives all past lives of each Soul. So, to my understanding, in the Spiritual Chain of Command , who do I, Jim , answer to, or ask for help , when I really need it? I know where I go, but you will need to decide where you, Michael, choose to go, or access for help. I really doubt that the Supreme First Cause, cares, or even knows you and I are alive, and on a Journey as struggling souls to escape from our Prison Warden of the Mind , to arrive back to pure Spirit as Pure Souls, with out any remaining material desires. I obviously have not yet arrived there yet, as I have a few desires left, but not many, as my Bucket List for this life is empty, and I am about as content as any one, and don’t plan on trying to be some one’s Savior, as I’m almost at the final sheet of Toilet Tissue on the roll. Not a good answer, but, sorry, that’s all I can access at this moment. I can’t imagine the miracle of how long it has taken our souls to arrive along the Journey ending up here, as Michael and all CoC members & Jim, to have this conversation about wondering Who really gives a Rip about any of us? Does GSD?
Jim S.

[Vinny]

With each passing day the concept of Kal Niranjan/Demiurge is coming to be true. It was not just adventure but trap laid out to capture the souls. For adventure you don't need carnal bodies, these bodies were especially prepared by Kal Nirnajan to rule over the souls.

[A Mystic Sayeth]

But when the big day comes
Who will remember my name
God?

Posted by: Michael | November 25, 2019 at 04:36 PM

Certainly Michael; if you have remembered your God through your life.

[Whodunit]

Jim S

As a prior pastor and as per similar portfolio as Julian P Johnson a pastor of a flock or congregation,
who as missionary went to India to teach the gospel according to his findings and education but got taken out of the narrow confine of religious belief to have received instruction from a source of knowledge loftier than his previous experience.

From same source of uniqueness of teaching as prescribed by one Seth Shiv Dayal of Agra to Jaimal Singh, to disciple Sawan. Who initiated Johnson and the message passed to the west of the world and via succession of teaching through discussions with disciples EG. successors Jagat Singh MSc, Ch. Singh Grewal, and G. Singh Dhillon, and via prof I. Puri, (and others).

Without such explanation of how one's condition within the world impact on the conscious awareness and how the mind conjures itself as part of the great story of life, who would have eventually pondered such a vast explanation of the existence of a 'Supreme existence and First Cause' and one's measly participation in it?

[The Smart One]

Hi Smart
Your wrote
"Yes. I am here as me with God's immense grace to fulfill the only objective of human birth - God Realisation."

My God sings in every atom of the creation. I reaslize God every instant I forget myself in helping someone else.

And not just me. Many others, too. I learned about it from real Sat Gurus, not the stage actors in turbans and turbo-jets people seen addicted to.

The secret of God realization, the secret of overcoming self is to lose yourself in selfless service. It is instant bliss. The layers of ego, the meditation work of ages is shed in a moment of compassion.

With the poorest of the poor He is there.

And when I turn from those in need, I am lonely for my God.

Where is that beautiful refuge, where can you escape the simple duties of just being a decent human being? That path of fighting with yourself never ends. There is no end to overcoming yourself. There is no getting over yourself without service.

You think God realization is a way around that, a short cut past compassion? Meditation is a substitute for humanity?

Funny how the mind works.

Don't you know that God IS compassion. That is all he is.

God has no door. Humans make a door and then close it on each other.

And call that wisdom?

Posted by: Spence Tepper | November 24, 2019 at 07:56 PM

With my many^many steps what is seen to be me is already HE.

Enjoy your service, even lose yourself in it. Get a couple of miracles attributed to yourself as well - much like Teresa and hopefully be known as Saint Spence. My best wishes to you in your endeavors. Atl east you doing good instead of the usual bad which is the norm.

Indeed funny is how the mind works .... . Thankfully mine's being laid to rest.

Of course God is love and HE rewards those who love and serve HIM selflessly and not his creation and it's constituents.

Nanak ke Ghar kewal Naam.

[A Mystic]

10 signs I am a mystic
1 I grab land
2 I grab girls
3 I am a movie star
4 I drive nice cars
5 I jetset around the world
6 I dont attend court dates
7 i commit fraud
8 i have no feelings
9 I cant count

yipee - I am a mystic

[🙏❤️🙏🌺🙏🌺🌈]

So to read here , The Almighty did hide very well this Job
not to argue about HIS Myriad other jobs
with HIS

Before Abraham , . . . I am!

Wow for HIM

777

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Smart One
You wrote
"Of course God is love and HE rewards those who love and serve HIM selflessly and not his creation and it's constituents."

God IS His creation and all it's constituents.

If you are truly serving a real Sant Sat Guru, then He is that center. And worship of the Master is worship of God. And in time you will see Him in everything. Then you bow very low, even before your critics. Yes, you serve even them. Because you are actually submitting to God in them.

If you really knew, Smart, if you saw all of the different people you were, their skin color, their beliefs, their gender and different orientations that were all you at some point, how they were born, the circumstances they lived under, whom they loved, whom they hated on, and how they died, in the past, their days of glory, their days of shame, their acts of courage, their acts of selfishness, their days of power and health, their days of injury, sickness and handicap, their moments of leadership, and their lives enslaved and exploited, their lives based on exploitation, you could not speak ill of anyone. You would be proud of nothing.

You would see the child in the aged person, and the aging and infirm in the eyes of the child.

You could not separate from service because it is all the same worship.

And then you would be whole.

Then you would be reunited with the true Lord, the highest, Param Sant, beyond the beyond, Alakh, Agam, Anami.

[Jesse]

There's a pretty simple concept in trading called cutting your losses. Most people lose in trading because they're psychologically unsound and are controlled by their emotions. They hold on when they lose. They take trades when they should just hold the cash.

Instead of cutting losses and moving on from RS "theology" aka worshiping Punjabi men who you've never met, you're doubling the size of your trade. You are the same people who go broke in the market, and you're the same ones who will burn in hell forever, but here you are trying to be teachers. Do your own kids hate you?

[Ron Krumpos]

Mystics’ Consciousness

The essence of mystics’ consciousness is suprarational, beyond reason, logic or images. It cannot be explained by rational thought, although we keep trying to do so. Mystics unite with eternal Reality which is; mysticism speculates on what, how or why it is.

Consciousness in divine oneness, viewed from various historical, cultural and personal perspectives, have occurred with different frequencies, degrees of realization and durations. This can help to explain the diversity in expressions or reports of that spiritual awareness. The ultimate Reality is the same, but absorption in it may differ. That is true for each mystic, as well as between mystics.

Spiritual knowing, mystical gnosis, is complete intuitive insight. It combines the very definition of all three words. Complete: “The entirety needed for realization; consummate.” Intuitive: “Knowing something without rational processes; the immediate cognition of it.” Insight: “Discernment of the true nature of a situation; the penetration beyond the reach of the senses.” Complete intuitive insight precedes divine unity and usually follows it. Union with the divine, however, transcends knower, known and knowing; it is to be at one with the divine essence.

“It is a condition of consciousness in which feelings are fused, ideas melt into one another, boundaries are broken, and ordinary distinctions transcended. Past and present fade away into a sense of timeless being. Consciousness and being are not different from each other. In this fullness of felt life and freedom, the distinction of the knower and known disappears. The privacy of the individual self is broken into and invaded by a universal self which the individual feels as his own. The experience itself is felt to be sufficient and complete. It does not come in fragmentary or truncated form demanding completion by something else. It does not look beyond itself for meaning or validity.” Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan H

“Satori may be defined as an intuitive looking into the nature of things in contradistinction to the analytical or logical understanding of it. Practically, it means the unfolding of a new world heretofore unperceived in the confusion of a dualistically trained mind. ...all its opposites and contradictions are united and harmonized into a consistent organic whole. Satori can thus be had only through our once personally experiencing it.” D.T. Suzuki B

“It is impossible [to write about it] because all things are interrelated. I can hardly open my mouth to speak without feeling as though the sea burst its dams and overflowed. How then shall I express what my soul has received? How can I set it down in a book?” Isaac Luria (the Ari) J

“All that the imagination can imagine and the reason conceive and understand in this life is not, and cannot be, a proximate means of union with God.” St. John of the Cross C

“The end of Sufism is total absorption in God…but in reality that is the beginning of the Sufi life, for those intuitions and other things which precede it are, so to speak, the porch by which they enter.” Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali I

"The most beautiful and profound emotion we can experience is the sensation of the mystical. It is the sower of all true science. To know that what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and most radiant beauty - which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their primitive form - this knowledge, this feeling, is at the center of all religion.” Albert Einstein

The ultimate Reality of the divine One - its essence surpassing conception or perception - is absolute certainty for those absorbed in it. It had infused itself into every part of their being, confirming intuitive insight of, and increasing love for, the unity of all existence. Most mystics then returned to their limited human self, many of them greatly transformed, but a few did continue in this universal consciousness for all the remaining years of their mortal life.

A little of that eternal life should be integrated into a little of this life. If our spiritual insights are restricted to periods of meditation or contemplation, they might temporarily enlighten us, but they will not transform us. The perpetual mystics, who some call saints, have been completely transformed in every aspect of their being. They live in the divine every moment. Our learning must be incorporated into our being if we are to progress toward eternal oneness.

Deep meditation can result in the absence of any sense of self and other, which Hindus and Buddhists may call samadhi. Most mystics feel eternal union is assured when you give up ego self during this lifetime. Sufis say, “to die before one dies.” The Christian mystics call it “death to self.” Kabbalists refer to it as bittul ha-yesh, “annihilation of the desiring self.” Whenever there is no observing “self” then, in transpersonal actuality, there is no “other.” In self-less living, all is experienced as unity in essence. The greatest achievement in life is maintaining that realization.

Almost every person feels that their life is lacking in some way, although they are seldom able to define it. There always seems to be something missing. True mystics feel wholeness often. It is not a temporary absorption in divine union. Rather, it is identifying the divine essence as the ground of being itself. Living, for them, usually expands beyond their own immediate sentiments, thoughts and sensing.

“My me is God, nor do I know my selfhood save in Him. My Being is God, not by simple participation, but by true transformation of my Being.” St. Catherine of Genoa C

"The individual works in the cosmic process no longer as an obscure and limited ego, but as the centre of the divine or universal consciousness embracing and transforming into harmony all individual manifestations. It is to live in the world with one’s inward being profoundly modified. The soul takes possession of itself and cannot be shaken from its tranquility by the attractions and attacks of the world.” Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan H

"Your deep soul hides itself from consciousness. So you need to increase...elevation of thinking, penetration of thought, liberation of mind - until finally your soul reveals itself to you. Then you find bliss...by attaining equanimity, by becoming one with everything that happens, by reducing yourself so extremely that you nullify your individual, imaginary form.” Abraham Isaac Kook J

“…the annihilation of the ego-conception, freedom from subjectivity, insight into the essence of Suchness, the recognition of the oneness of existence.” Ashvaghosha B

”He who knows Reality, to whom Unicity is revealed, sees at first gaze the Light of Being. He perceives by illumination that pure light. He sees God first in everything he sees.” Mahmoud Shabestari I

Whether mystical experiences vary in their cultural context, or are similar for all true mystics, is less important than that they transform each one’s sense of being to a transpersonal outlook on all life. Mystics’ worldview surpass individual differences. Their higher regard is for the commonality, community and communion amongst all.

[Dungeness]

You are the same people who go broke in the market, and you're the same ones who will burn in hell forever, but here you are trying to be teachers. Do your own kids hate you?

Hellfire forever, eh? Sounds like an anti-theist on a rant.

As for moving "on" from RS theology, if a discipline remains
blind belief only, I agree. Then the blindly faithful hop on
soapboxes trying to save lost souls. Even anti-theists are
known to do this. The rants are a little different is all.

Kids are subjected to this all the time at home. They quickly
learn to spot a rant coming on, maybe even nod their heads
piously to make it stop sooner, then swear to themselves to do
the opposite.

Teaching only occurs when legit experience and knowledge is
shared.

[Jen]

Nastiest Jesse comment ever... "Most people lose in trading because they're psychologically unsound and are controlled by their emotions." "You are the same people who go broke in the market, and you're the same ones who will burn in hell forever, but here you are trying to be teachers. Do your own kids hate you?"

If this was targeting me, I have loving children and I'm not trying to be a teacher, just thinking about mysticism and intuition...

Albert Einstein...

The finest emotion of which we are capable
is the Mystic emotion.
........................

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift
and the rational mind is a faithful servant.
We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift.
.......................

[SP]

RIP MRS SHABNAM DHILLON!!!!

[Gumshuda bachha by peela gubbara]

Mrs Dhillon has passed on. Did this happen in the UK or had they left Haynes Park after her surgery.

Delhi satsang is scheduled for Friday - perhaps Shabnam and Gurkirat had returned along with Babaji? Anybody has info?

[Sevadars Inc]

Mrs Dhillon has passed on. Did this happen in the UK or had they left Haynes Park after her surgery.

Delhi satsang is scheduled for Friday - perhaps Shabnam and Gurkirat had returned along with Babaji? Anybody has info?

Posted by: Gumshuda bachha by peela gubbara | November 26, 2019 at 08:18 PM

Going by the posters in here the Dhillons were holidaying at their PRIVATE PROPERTY aka Haynes Park.

Go ask your local centre about the Delhi program.

[Jesse]

"If this was targeting me"

No, it's "targeting" anyone who thinks they know things and wants to spread their cultish thinking in manipulative ways.

On a totally unrelated note, but one equally offensive to most sad people, Jewish comedian Dave Smith says exactly what I say, but in a more tactful way, and makes the world look like a circus of idiots-

https://twitter.com/NickerNation/status/1197746391751307265

[SP]

Gumshuda bachha by peela

Out of sheer pity for you I'll share

I hear there is no change in Dubai and Delhi satsang program.

There is more I know but it's not worth it putting up in here.

Anyways many in here will have objections about this behavior too of GSD.

[Juan]

Mrs Dhillon has passed on. Did this happen in the UK or had they left Haynes Park after her surgery.

Delhi satsang is scheduled for Friday - perhaps Shabnam and Gurkirat had returned along with Babaji? Anybody has info?

Posted by: Gumshuda bachha by peela gubbara | November 26, 2019 at 08:18 PM

This is the information I have:
The three day Delhi programme has not been cancelled and it is said that even the Dubai programme which was recently announced is likely to be held as cheduled.

The body of his wife will be brought back to Dera Beas after Dec. 3 for the last rites.

[Michael]

Jim
Thank you for your response to my post. I never expected anyone would comment, and that shows how we somehow bond here on the CotC.
My post was done right after reading a short story that was full of melancholy. It almost made me cry.
The gist of the story, the Titans, is how the world is at our feet while in our late teens and early twenties. We are the Titans.
Now, in the blink of an eye, that was forty years ago. The swift passing of time was what I had in mind in my comment. Probably didn’t convey that all that well though. Getting old and older I guess.

[Gumshuda bachha by peela]

SP:

Out of sheer pity, why?

What makes you think the sangat would rather not have the satsangs go as scheduled? Predisposition, notion, lack of compassion reeking in your tone.

And why would 'they' have objections to the Master doing his duty and putting the sangat above everything else? Isnt that all the once believers now doubters have always neesed to hear anyway? You clearly think everyone here is anti-RSSB. Maybe they're just seeking, soul searching.

Have more love in you, you seem very bitter. Start with love, then make your way up through tisra til.

[🙏🌺🙏]

So to read here , The Almighty did hide very well this Job
not to argue about HIS Myriad other jobs
with HIS

Before Abraham , . . . I am!

Wow for him
Wow for Her and 4M initiated vs 8

777

Posted by: 🙏❤️🙏🌺🙏🌺🌈 | November 26, 2019 at 02:34 AM

[Meditator]

World is passing by. Never know who all to be next and then further next...
Its a running show.

But He is static and free of the winds and storms - passions assailing the minds and therefore He hardly ever change His spiritual itinerary like His esteemed predecessors.

Gods blessing she passed away a bit before His Delhi programme otherwise He may have taken leave of her to deliver satsang to rejoin later for performing final rites of her mortal remains had she left on the day of Delhi satsang.

[slave_of_gsd]

You clearly think everyone here is anti-RSSB. Maybe they're just seeking, soul searching.

Posted by: Gumshuda bachha by peela | November 27, 2019 at 06:44 AM

And maybe you are Donald Trump

[Gumshuda bachha by peela gubbara]

I would not want to be Trump, thanks.

I am not sure GSD would appreciate you being a slave_of_gsd. Your real Master is the Word not the flesh. He's been shouting that at the top of his lungs. Don't be a slave of the physical. Find the radiant. slave_of_gsd.. geez man lol.

[💖💖💖]

"Who will remember my name"
God? Posted by: Michael | November 25, 2019 at 04:36 PM

me:
This is so funny?
Should God find a "second" (in no time) :-). ... to remember HIMSELF having pseudo-ed Michael - OMG. ?

I think HE not only remembers the eventual LOVE episodes
from your Crown Chakra and beyond and the tiny LOVE sparks before
and can't get enough of it!

OFc the slump goes in the swamp - I mean : HE can't remember a iota of it
You Sir : Would YOU like to remember the smell

Best is to dive NOW in the sweet Song the Master offers all the time and BE That

I guess ShabadNaam got The Sweet Sound
from Our Majesty Huzur Charan Maharaji

💖💖💖 777.

[Jen]

@ Ron Krumpos,

Thanks for your comment and quotes. I looked up your name and discovered that you are an author so I have lots of reading to look forward to. At the moment have found and am reading on my iPad "The Greatest Achievement In Life". So nice to read positive, uplifting and encouraging words that help in this mysterious and strange world we live in.

[Slave_of_GSD]

I am not sure GSD would appreciate you being a slave_of_gsd. Your real Master is the Word not the flesh. He's been shouting that at the top of his lungs. Don't be a slave of the physical. Find the radiant. slave_of_gsd.. geez man lol.

Posted by: Gumshuda bachha by peela gubbara | November 27, 2019 at 10:32 AM

Such profound intelligence taking id's at face value specially on this site. Thank you for this grand revelations about who is the true guru be blah blah.

Why the f$#@ eager to know about that damn PHYSICAL GSD satsang program and/or go attend it.

Go for the radiant!!!!! Right. Ooops but as per your own admission earlier that's out of your reach.

[Jesse]

In the thread about Gurinder's wife some dude named J called the death memo "emotionally anemic" which I think is a perfect description not only of that weird press release, but also of the RS cult overall.

Even atheist forms of Buddhism like Zen are more human and humane than RSSB. I've done zazen at the local zendo or wtf they're called and I can't imagine someone in that community dying and the big boss telling everyone to do more zazen.

RSSB should add "You're all going to fucking DIE!" to their official letterhead. Bunch of bastards they are.

[Anonom]

Clearly out of your reach as well "Slave"

[💖💖💖]

Its a running show. Meditator said above

Yes
It might be my fore-land
which is the Roman Church which it s habits of "praying to Mother Mary"

As if special Grace comes to us from The UK Hospital
where Doctors did their best - they might have been Satsangis
and so blessed

We manmukhs ( don t like the word) are so blessed when from time to time
a great Soul is ascending towards The Beloved and cleans for us
the ascending Path !
I have never seen ShabdNam but feels She is not very far

We all celebrate This Path even on this stupid
anti science blog where they say that one time nothing
is a lot

RS to all the willing!

777

[💖💖💖]

No Jesse
THAT is the point which makes you panicking pissed off

That we don't die
Even sometimes long before death of the molecules
we realise that we are that hyper sweet sound at the Right side

You go where your heart is and we go where ours is

[Spence Tepper]

It hardly matters whether Jesus, Kabir, Nanak, Rumi, Shams, Swami Ji, Sawan, Charan even ever lived. Nor the details of their lives, which may have been uneven, broken, tainted with human limitations of cultural prejudice, and the folly of limited human understanding and judgment.

All that matters is that in their writings they stood for something higher. These characters established in detail a higher way of thinking, loving, believing, hoping, and the worship of that highest concept of goodness and benevolence, the superior power of good over evil, the Supreme and inevitable balance of nature and justice, and the presence of help even under the most dire circumstances, help from within.

To argue over the physical reality or the historical accuracy is to miss the point entirely.

To live with that ideal, as our dearest companion, personified for our own understanding, boiled down into something we can love and hold, and carry with us through all places and times, and which carries us, and the practice of that, is all that matters. This is the gem in the ring, not the base metal setting.

And what raises this to divine proportions is that, even living in the mud, as animals that we are still very much today, such concepts exist.

It is more miraculous that we can believe, and believing be transformed, because there is zero physical reality to these things, yet complete psychological reality, than if they were physically based truths.

It is a greater miracle that in belief and worship of that belief we rise above, as an utmost act of Submission and even sacrifice to a higher ideal, than any evidence demanded by a lax and lazy mind.

[um]

@ Spence

>>To live with that ideal ….<<

The greatest crimes of known history were all people with and religious or political IDEAL.
For their ideal millions of people suffered and were killed.

What these missionaries have in common that THEY know for OTHERS what is good for them and are prepared to push it into people like parents in the past would make their children swallow fish oil.

Being around "The "do good" people" one easily feels like a dirty piece of cloth within 5 minutes. It took me years to figure out how that worked.

MCS in contrast, never "leaned heavily" upon people with his thoughts, emotions etc
He stressed that one should do one's duties, not to get emotional involved with the persons which one was to deal in any of the roles of life. and not to leave one's path in life to do good.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You write
"The greatest crimes of known history were all people with and religious or political IDEAL."

Not really. Most murders are crimes of passion, not compassion. The biggest criminals with an axe to grind,
those with no vision, who love nothing more than themselves, the bullies who would rather impose themselves on others, from positions of power. They use propaganda only to serve themselves. They are politicians only where people have no vision, no faith in themselves, no love of humanity or God.

And their biggest supporters come from people without vision except that they can take. Selfish visions of get rich quick schemes, lustful visions of acquiring material things and people objectified as things, treated as things.

The one of vision needs no worldly status and eschews all authority. The ideal is all.

You are wrong about this. What you offer is the excuse of the passive bystander. The individual who lives off the sacrifices of others. The lazy flag that waves in the wind without any comprehension that others gave their lives to build that tower the flag waves proudly atop.

The mindless flag that has no idea of the symbol it bears, and the humanity that gave all for that symbol.

The senseless flag that waves wherever the wind blows, supporting whomever is in power, making justifications and noble excuses for the oppressors of the world, and in every word hypocrisy rings throughout the land. For they rose to a high place doing nothing.

All the world's great discoveries, designs and achievements came from contemplation of the ideal, and those who willingly chose to adopt that ideal, submit to it, I've their life to it, discovering it to be a truth from within themselves.

You are wrong, Um, wrong about the Path, wrong about Gurinder and wrong about Charan.

But saying so is also meaningless. There are more of you than me in this world.

You and I were raised differently.

But we all have Shabd, The Word within us.

Listen to it, submit to it. It will destroy every false notion, and you will be left naked, humbled, and willing to do as the Lord asks.

Sadly, that's not passive. It's active. The only truly free actor in the world.

[Um]

@ spence

The Idealist I had in mind were the Lenin's, the Marx's, the Mao's, The POL Pots etc of this world

I Also had in mind the Cristian and Muslim armies that were send oud into the world to spread the the IDEALS of their faith, and not to forget the IS.

Why do the America's, Australia etc … speak English, Spanish or Portuguese? And are predominant Christian? How is it possible that such small countries could manage that?
Because of TERROR.

The same was done by the Muslim Invaders elsewhere.

To do good, to change for the better, means there is something bad, either the person or something else, … un asked for and without the consent of the people that are placed in the position of receivers of that goodness. not only mkes them feel miserable about themselves but, as history shows, has brought suffering upon them.

Stay away from idealists, reformers of the world … they are not even allowed in hell according dante … they are very devils in disguise.

None of the mystics you named, none ever suggested that their path was that of turning an B-class worldly prison into a an A-class prison.

As said again we both stand on different grounds from where things are seen from an different angle.

Te evil of wealth … be it material, mental or even spiritual.
Is not about how that wealth was had.
It is the suggestion that one has something that i superior and a sine qua non for happiness complete humanness etc and that it is in anothers persons hand

[Um]

@ Spence

To be sure …

The red cross, red moon, flying docters, green peace, Terre des hommes, Unesco, Aid organisations for refugees etc etc …. are no spiritual movements and those working are no mystics.

No doubt, they are the angels of this world

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You write
"None of the mystics you named, none ever suggested that their path was that of turning an B-class worldly prison into a an A-class prison."

But they all lived to alleviate suffering. Charity and service are part and parcel of the path. There are so many hours of the day beyond our meditation, beyond work, beyond sleep. And service is living meditation.

So, Um, no excuses.

[Um]

@ Spence

>>But they all lived to alleviate suffering. Charity and service are part and parcel of the path. >There are so many hours of the day beyond our meditation, beyond work, beyond sleep. And service is living meditation. <<

When people mostly Americans stood before MCS and publicly demanded that more effort and money of the sangat should be given to alleviate the suffering of the poor, what did he answer??

Where and when did MCS taught his disciples to do what you write here???

He invariable said that no satsangi should go out of his way to alleviate the suffering in the world … so no active seeking "where can I be of help" … but give that help only if such an occasion would arise in one's life and leave this work of alleviating the suffering of the world to those who's duty it was … caritative organisations, governments etc and those working for these organisations.

And … did he not advise to spend extra time in extra meditation???

Maybe you should discuss this matter with an teacher of your choice that represents this mat,
as I just represent my point of view from where I stand.

Sant Mat, Shabd Yoga is no Salvation Army.

What you write makes me think of the split within the Theosophical community that led up to the birth of Antropsophy by Steiner....his followers want to bring heaven on earth.

[💦. 💦 💦 💦 💦]

Our oldest dog, ZuZu, died last month. I'm still grieving.

This fits so very well in a comment already I wanted to give
about. "Grievance" of BBJ, Gurinder
or what "J" said
The lack of it !

J. wrote:
"A memo, I am aware, personally ok'ed by GSD. Apart from this your post doesn't merit any reaction!"

IT IS THE CENTER PIECE OF SANT MAT

As earlier exposed , at all times all 7 chakra beings
are activating one or more of these 7 chakras energy matrix centers
which are the structure where molecules are woven in!

Sant Mat Meditation aims @ to be able to choose where you want to be with your attention!

Grief can be easily exponentialized in the 5 lower chakras
to the point even that people can't take it anymore and decide to suicide

When you attent to the Third Eye ( 6th Chakra )
and above ( 7th Chakra , The Crown ) merely by Grace
I mean : Grace while you prepare the mind and foremost by Simian & LOVE........

........ is very difficult to explain : already between 6 & 7 there is serenity, love , calmness , that is when the entity is accepted (initiated) in that area

Many times I referred to the point that at and above
The N° 7 Chakra, there
is only the sweet Creator in His Sweet Sound Frequency Form

So,
Third Eye meditation makes us able after some training to shift at will in whatever Chakra You want to be
and in cases of on coming grief OF COURSE . one jumps as high as the training and Grace permits
but surely in the grief-less area, The Light at the end of the Bardo Todol tunnel.

Right in the middle of this Tibetan Book of the death, (look it up Bardo Todol) it is stated
"No Jeeva (Soul+Ego) who did in his lifetime Meditations under the guidance of a Saint, needs this book , the uttering during 3 days, because HE/SHE will immediately be absorbed in the Light!"
I paraphrased

It is such a beautiful system and it makes, -mr._J- ,
us invulnerable
that is
to a certain degree, growing every day

This corresponds perfectly with the "Hearing of The Sound"
in which we can make our abode, The Place to BE

To be really That,
to BE at all "times" before Abraham

To radiate happiness and at the same time be hyper effective, efficient
not being hampered by any grief of frustrations

Why would we, We won the lottery

777

Dropping the usual hypocritical Manmukh auto-inculpation;
while being HIM, . . thanks to our Masters, mine Charan Excellency

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You ask
"Who of the famous mystics of the world…"lived [in order] to alleviate suffering .. and was an example???"

Nanek wrote that charity is one of the five basic principles of the path.
Jesus died for the sins of the world.
Maharaji said time and again people are meant to help each other.
We are meant for it.

Our primary purpose is our own liberation. We agree on that.

But Charity and service are all a part of that. You can't become a decent human being without becoming a decent human being.

And there is no liberation without that. Inner and outer life must work together.

So many false Guru's teach the opposite, that a life of obscene acquisition is fine, and charity only optional. And then, as teue hypocrites, they speak of detachment from material wealth. But it is only detachment so you can go acquire more. It is the alcoholic claiming that don't have a problem with drinking. They can stop at any time. But they don't. And then they say they shouldn't have to stop. It's all justification for attachment.

And actually, the Master is just the point of focus. It's really about the Satsangis trying to justify bad behavior on their own part. Living without any obligation to brotherhood.

I'm sorry, Um, there is no spirituality in separating ourselves from our duty to our brothers and sisters and living behind a wall of wealth, land and objects.

In fact, as Majaraji taught us, true spiritual progress makes us better brothers and sisters.

It is the tree that is barren that stands tall and firm.

It is the teee laden with fruit that bends low.

Fruit falls naturally to all from that tree. Have you never heard Majaraji use this classic simile?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
"Kabir was unmindful of the situation. A brahmin came begging for clothes. Kabir gave a cloth generously away to him. Then a muslim phakir asked for clothes. He gave the remaining cloth to the second person. He was not worried about the family or the money he lost by his charity. On the contrary he thought he was then free from the shackles of mundane business and could concentrate on God undisturbedly. He could see God in both a Hindu and a Muslim. "

Should be be anything other than Kabir?

Let us rise to Kabir's level!

[Um]

@Spence

These people came to his door, Spence!
They crossed his path of life and he acted as supposed.
He didn't go out of his house, out of his path, to find somebody to do good.

That is all their is to say to it.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"Sant Mat, Shabd Yoga is no Salvation Army.
What you write makes me think of the split within the Theosophical community that led up to the birth of Antropsophy by Steiner....his followers want to bring heaven on earth."

Rise to heaven within yourself. Then whatever you are, a little bit of heaven is also there.

In heaven we are all one. So if that is within you here, all your actions will gravitate to it. No boarders. No castes. All things belong to the Father.

Where you given a Rolls Royce, you sell it for a Toyota. You still have a new car, and the rest of the money can serve those in need.

Where you are given a jet aircraft, you sell it so that refugees needing passage are funded, and you keep enough for your own flights on commercial passenger airlines.

Were you find yourself with hundreds of centers around the globe, you sell off the most valuable, so that you can open the others to refugees and find them.

Whether you are given villas, you sell them off and rent an apartment.

You live comfortably. You have no goal to change the world. You are simply using what God gave you responsibly.

It's easy to understand if you have reached heaven. Then it all makes perfect sense, Um. And the test of this world looks crazy. People fighting over rocks? Insanity.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"These people came to his door, Spence!
They crossed his path of life and he acted as supposed.
He didn't go out of his house, out of his path, to find somebody to do good."

Everywhere you look, nearly every step you take, there are those who need a helping hand. It isn't necessary to go out of your way. But if you do walk a mile, or five miles, out of your way, do what? Your way is always wherever you are? Nothing is out of your way. It Is your way.

You can find places to volunteer a few hours a week here or there within a twenty minute drive from your home.

You drive that far too join friends for dinner.

So it's not out of your way at all.

We should not live in caves of Rock or caves of gemstones far from humanity.

That's not the path.
And Saints tell us not to run from the world... Neither to caves of stone or caves of gemstones.

[Jesse]

The true guru drinks, smokes and steals. You find him with gorgeous whores and piles of cocaine, belittling the poor beggars who pass by ruining the atmosphere with their stench.

None of you know anything. You're parroting books. Shut up.

[Um]

@ Spence

There is nothing we can do … you think it can be done and that thinking forces you to write as you do and let us hope you als act upon your words….walking the talk

I act upon my words and don't try to better the world as it is kind of blasphemy to think one can and one has too. You might remember the mystic that was rebukes by the lord because he was willing to use his power to change the river that was eating the land of the villagers.

Kabir, when approached acted as you wrote he didn't sell something and then went out to find someone to help.

Spence, I never had the intention in live to do good nor bad. Some of the things I did had an positive effect and others negative … that is how it is.

and the other message of yours:

>>You can find places to volunteer a few hours a week here or there within a twenty minute drive from your home<<

I never did it, and i don't have the intention to ever do it.
When asked for help I gave it for no other reason than to answer the question .. the idea of doing good never crossed my mind and if you don't mind I would like to keep it that way.

You have these intentions and for you it is good to act upon them, there is no reason to act upon what you do for others.

One day a young fellow complained before MCS that all were giving som little job to do and he was not asked … he answered laughingly maybe the best you can do for the sangat is to do nothing.

My point of answering is not in what you prefer to think and to do that is completly yours, i have nothing to say about that but whether it is part of the teachings of the saints.

You think it is and i think it is not … that is all right

[💦. 💦 💦 💦 💦. (no corrector)]

""". Where you are given a jet aircraft, you sell it so that refugees """

The Saint knows very well the Math of Giving more Naam with that plane
than by Quantas

I SOO. regret Charan hadn't a plane

I'm not a fanatic - I don't believe that The Saint is all knowing but that
He got knowledge on a "need to know base"
that knowledge is a lot , including
what will happen with this planet and HOW people will be helped
like RSSB helped in Nepal and so much more without agenda.
It s not in the newsletters

HE IS THE DISTRIBUTOR OF NAAM. Wow. 💦. 💦 💦 💦 💦HE IS THE BELOVED OF THE SATGURU. Wow. 💦. 💦 💦 💦 💦
Spence, you should know : give All the grains to the needy
Result : No Harvest
Diminish your judgementals please

Remember : One Initiation pleases God more than a trillion^9
lives full of good works.
The Love so liberated equals a Zillion^7 big bangs full of Charity
and we cannot believe That enough

777

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
Yes we have a different understanding of the true Path.

That's OK. You just need to know what your own next step is...

And if not, then to be open to learning about it as it happens.

That's all any of us can do. When you find your progress is static, try raising your love.

Brotherhood, as a Natural expression of love for the Lord, is at a stage.

Q&A Fayetteville 2007
"Baba Ji, do we have to give up love in order to find truth?"

"No. We want you to raise your love very high, so that on a higher platform of love you will find the truth."

[Spence Tepper]

Hi 777
The true Saint doesn't need a jet to connect souls to Nam. There would be no European or Asian or American Statsangis, connected long before they were initiated, if a jet was required.

Charan didn't need no stinkin' jet.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi 777
You wrote
"don't believe that The Saint is all knowing but that
He got knowledge on a "need to know base"

Spend more time with a real Saint.
Or within.
This world is like the make believe world children play with puppets. When they are the puppet they become that character. When they take off the Puppet they become themselves. The two are related, but only on a subtle level. But like an actor playing a role, the script has little to do with the actor. They are just reading the lines, playing the part. What the puppets call real and what the puppets call imagination are entirely reversed.

But this is true for all of us, 777.

There's no point in discussing the chakras as if they have any value. Every one of them is a paper candle lantern on a river, soon dispersed and drowned, or a sand mandala gently ruined by the lightest breeze, or a sidewalk crayon drawing crying in the rain, or a paper bag that fell into the sea.

[Jesse]

Many of you talk about "spirituality" or "mysticism" as if you're experts, but you attempt to reduce the entire subject to quote mining and simplifying popular poets from north india from the last 500 years or so.

Do the peoples of SE Asia and Africa who torture animals so that the gods hear the cries practice spirituality or not? Or are they stupid primitives who are incapable of finding god with their undeveloped souls and brains?

Who the hell do you really think you are?

You found a few Indian books. Congratulations, but you're not the first or last.

[Jesse]

"Spend more time with a real Saint.
Or within."

"There's no point in discussing the chakras as if they have any value. Every one of them is a paper candle lantern on a river, soon dispersed and drowned, or a sand mandala gently ruined by the lightest breeze, or a sidewalk crayon drawing crying in the rain, or a paper bag that fell into the sea. "

You're a cringe loser lol. stfu and stop trying to felate yourself. None of what you say is edifying.

There's no point in internet nobodies discussing "naam" and "shaabd." It's an ocean of rotten piss that smells like homeless people in 2003 Seattle.

[Spence Tepper]

Jesse
"There's no point in internet nobodies discussing "naam" and "shaabd." It's an ocean of rotten piss that smells like homeless people in 2003 Seattle."

To you.
That is your world, Jesse.
You have every right to it. It belongs to you.

In that tiny place only you exist. It's your home. And you decorate its as you wish. If you wish to make dart boards with pictures of those you hate, it's your place. Have at it. You can make dart boards and play darts with yourself as long as you wish. All day long, day in and day out. It's your entertainment.

When it gets repetitive you may choose to blame the dart boards you yourself made. Do that for a while if you like. Life is short, but there's more where this one came from.

[Dungeness]

Charan didn't need no stinkin' jet.

But, but, if one's available, in theory, GIHF could
skip taxi's, traffic jams, airport custom inspections,
flight delays, and instead max out appearances
at satsangs. At least regionally.

Or, is the suggestion it was only a jet setter's toy...
used purely for family or personal business ventures?
Or that it was Exhibit A in an obscene pattern of
greed and corruption? Or, that it would be best to
opt for a humbler travel option... preferably "coach"
since Charan traditionally rode commercial flights?

[💦 💦 💦]

💦 💦 💦.
Still insist ! 🌺
💦 💦 💦

[Um]

@ Spence
>>Q&A Fayetteville 2007
"Baba Ji, do we have to give up love in order to find truth?"

"No. We want you to raise your love very high, so that on a higher platform of love you will find the truth." >try raising your love<<

[Arjuna]

@ Spence

Why dont you seek your possessions and house to help refugees? Sure that would be a worthy sacrifice. Now that is Godly.

You claim to have inner knowledge but I know that is not true as i have read what you write. You will turn this against me. You want GSD behind bars . Those bars are being forged by every word you write.

I have lost faith in people boring me with inner knowledge and then talking like a man whose mind is his master. God day

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
"Or, is the suggestion it was only a jet setter's toy...
used purely for family or personal business ventures?
Or that it was Exhibit A in an obscene pattern of
greed and corruption? Or, that it would be best to
opt for a humbler travel option... preferably "coach"
since Charan traditionally rode commercial flights?"

True Spirituality does not require even one rupee to be taught, felt, heard and seen around the world.

I only suggest that as the false Guru's love to acquire such things with any number of excuses, they aren't great company, and they certainly don't need others to offer new justifications for excess.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Arjuna
You wrote
"You claim to have inner knowledge but I know that is not true as i have read what you write. You will turn this against me. You want GSD behind bars."

You must have missed the dozen or so times I suggest we all pull together and help get the debt paid. It's a family thing, Arjuna, not a blame thing.

But for any progress, there must be transparency. And acknowledgment. Right now the full story is still being uncovered.

So let's not hide from the truth. Let's acknowledge it, share the burden and move forward together.

If Gurinder is guilty, then so are you and I. We accepted initiation. That's deeper than birth in a family. We are in this family for better or worse, Arjuna.

That means for better or worse you are my brother. If you are my brother, if Brian Ji is my brother, then Baba Ji is my brother.

Not a blame thing, just a truth thing, and a family thing.

Imagine a family that turns away and runs from each other when one member or another gets themselves in hot water.

Running away is on us, then. That's our fault.

Meanwhile there is a debt to be paid and we are not helping. And that debt is on our family.

[🌺]

@Arjuna
I love U

and not from our western jazz culture You might
enjoy this song about the Path anyway

https://youtu.be/lJXLqAutql4?list=RDZlS8t8_nAHo

777

[🌺]

@spence
BBJ. will follow your advise and us a donkey like Jesus

Are you managing your hospital / patients that way?

7

[Spence Tepper]

Hi 7
You asked
"BBJ. will follow your advise and us a donkey like Jesus
" Are you managing your hospital / patients that way?"

Miracles happen in hospitals.
The work is incredible and very fulfilling.
A change in attitude, a moment of insight, people understanding each other for the first time and BANG patients get better sooner, fewer medical errors, fewer patients need to return to the hospital, and their experience skyrockets.
Nothing like it!

Baba Ji walking the halls of the Emergency Department late at night.

[Spence Tepper]

My Baba Ji doesn't need a jet to show up in the hospital healing the patients and the staff.

Your Baba Ji might just be the fulfillment of your request.

[Arjuna]

@ spencer . Wake up man! You nor I do not know if the debt was GSD right to have. Listen to yourself as you bind and forge the steel that will hold for wish him to be behind bars. The bars will be for you. Who will listen to your cries. Dont take on GSD. We dont know what he is

Surely you can feel the heat from the iron smelting for your bars.

The debt is neither mine nor yours- dont be so silly with such comments,

Good day

[Arjuna]

@ 777 love you too man!

Nice song

[Georgy Porgy]

Yep Arjuna, overgrown baby that he is, finally speaks sense about Spence. Both need an ego thrashing - the Baba might just give it to them if they lucky.

[Spence Tepper]

Georgy, Arjuna
"Be kind. It is a way of being wise."
Collette

We all live in our own prisons. Arjuna, you have your bars, Georgy has his.

Truth, which is as difficult as a new diaper to a crying baby, may not feel great. But it will in a bit.

So the truth must come out, and we can all work together to make up the debt. It's very simple.

[Spence Tepper]

When we work together to lighten someone else's burden, we lighten our own!

[Arjuna]

No spence I helped people escape bars. All I said we dont know and then Georgy Fat Scone Porgy turns up. What like of fat boys name is Georgy PORGY

Georgey my fat scone eating friend . You would urinate if you ever met me in real life.trust me that why I ain't really offended by what you say. Make your self useful and go to Haynes to check out the aunties. Little boy x

[💪🏽.💪🏽.💪🏽]

@You arrogant bitch spence said ""So the truth must come out, ""

The truth IS out!
49 pages

[Jen]

"When we work together to lighten someone else's burden, we lighten our own!"

This is not what is taught in Sant Mat. Each person has to deal with their own karma, including Gurinder. I wonder Spence, if you ever were a satsangi.

"Meanwhile there is a debt to be paid and we are not helping. And that debt is on our family."

Such nonsense, as a 74 year old ex-satsangi living on age pension which barely covers my bills and you are insisting that we should help Gurinder pay his bills. Not even laughable. It sounds like you Spence are not sound of mind.

[💪🏽.❌ 💪🏽.]

@Jen. said :
It sounds like you Spence are not sound of mind.

Therefore I explained the 7 chakras situation

Although we call the lower chakras "low", they have immense power
in each of us

There are 10 000 warnings in literature
Where you think Hitler had his hypnotic voice from?

An ant of mine was invited to shake it's hand and was crying for month from emotion

Spence
I said filthy bitch to U while smiling
but imaging that there is a high level satsangi here who will lose his temper
Then there is only BabaJI to stop him

and BBJ might be a little distracted these daysAfter all BBJ said not in Hongkong : 4info. : Read Spence

77

Let me tell U
There is no karma-credit 4Daiichi
Go out of this

[Spence Tepper]

Jen
Give what you can.
If you can give nothing material, then at least good will.
And when you share good will, Jen, as you often do, your Zen, that is wealth. It's priceless.

Stick with the wealth you have. Be generous with that. It's priceless.

[Spence Tepper]

Other ways of giving..

Visit a shut-in
Volunteer with hospice
Volunteer at an animal shelter
Bring your pet to visit a senior
Sew senior or shelter clothes that need mending
Donate coffee, sugar or cups
Share stories or play games with children at a Shelter or seniors at a home or assisted living center
Play music for children or seniors
Help a blind person complete their chores
Help coordinate free rides to a doctor
Lead a senior center sing along
Help an altzheimers patient take a walk
Share stories with children as a school volunteer as a big grand brother or grand sister....
Put your mind to work, reach out and find a way to connect.

[Spence Tepper]

What is the history, big or small, that you are making?
How will you make your history?

The world has reality and meaning beyond what meets the eye.

[Jen]

"What is the history, big or small, that you are making?
How will you make your history?"

Hi Spence, not that interested in making history. Prefer watching and observing, thoughts and feelings. Being aware. In Zen Thinking awareness is the formless and infinite emptiness in which consciousness awakens. Its an ongoing practice.

Thanks Spence, I liked your comments. I was cross with you and now you've put me back on track. Love and compassion :)

[Jesse]

I'm so wise and smart. Please read my prose about the sant sat guru real and true master.

[X17]

My Baba Ji doesn't need a jet to show up in the hospital healing the patients and the staff.

Your Baba Ji might just be the fulfillment of your request.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | November 30, 2019 at 10:30 AM

How come your Babaji doesn't keep it simple - make hospitals extinct. No more sickness. Just avoid the jet lag, late night walks etc. And how come he skipped the London hospital whilst in UK?

Besides, has your beloved Charan retired?

Stop posting rubbish!!!!!

[Spence Tepper]

Hi DungenX

You asked..
"How come your Babaji doesn't keep it simple - make hospitals extinct."

Maharaji wrote about this. So much karmic web. People have debts to pay and payments to receive from each other. Hospitals are places of miracles.

You asked...
" No more sickness. Just avoid the jet lag, late night walks etc. "

If you withdraw from this reality, you have effectively accomplished this. GFI, dude, GFI!

You asked

"And how come he skipped the London hospital whilst in UK?"

Which Baba Ji are you talking about?

You asked

"Besides, has your beloved Charan retired?"

He is always with me, or more precisely, I live in Him. If course, I need course corrections all the time, but he keeps me on a nice leash. I wander around and sniff the flowers, and the fertilizer, but I get pulled in when I need to get back on path.

DungenX

Believe whatever you like if the result is that you help.

Deny any belief that leaves you static, passive.

We are all on the path of personal progress, suited to each of us.

Pick the one that works for you.

We lived in a multi-verse, just in case you missed the email.

My Charan is with me as I work. Baba Ji shows up for the other souls and is the real father to my son.

They inspire me, they change history in an instant. It's a wonderful thing to see.

Find what inspires you.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen
You write
"In Zen Thinking awareness is the formless and infinite emptiness in which consciousness awakens. Its an ongoing practice."

Truth. This is the daily practice, called by different names. This is the point. That emptiness is treasure.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
"Sister we should try our best to help them. We must help people in the world. We are born for that purpose. Only humans can be helpful to humans. But we should not be involved so much that we do not have time for our own selves."
- Spiritual Perspectives, Vol 3, Maharaj Charan Singh Ji, page 154, question 205.

You see Um, it is a matter of balance. But it is a requirement.

" We must help people in the world. We are born for that purpose. "

[Spence Tepper]

Hi 777
You may use any language you like. I understand your intentions are good.
My point about Chakras is just that they are all perishable. They deserve no attention at all as they are already self - maintaining. When that attention comes from attention on permanent things, even great and noble ideas, or contemplation on love, or Truth, or anything that is larger than we are, that is out of balance. And balance is restored attending to greater things, including helping others. If our attention will take us to greater things, we should put it on greater things. Then everything below is nicely re-aligned, like raising one end of a small stand of Christmas lights, all the others fall in line below. Attending to them takes us out of balance.

[Dungeness]

How come your Babaji doesn't keep it simple - make hospitals extinct. No more sickness. Just avoid the jet lag, late night walks etc. And how come he skipped the London hospital whilst in UK?
...
Stop posting rubbish!!!!!

Hey, so many questions and complaints. You could boil them down.
In fact, why didn't he just stop the Big Bang? There would only be pure
consciousness at rest, silent, unperturbed... rubbish-free.

"The gentle voices I hear explain it all with a sigh" (Tuesday Afternoon)
--The Moody Blues

[Jesse]

The wisdom never stops. Real life Chopra bots.

You're so wise and so smart. People look to you for answers.

[um]

@ Spence

I don't have the book you mentioned, so I cannot check the context, the question that was asked and what was going on in that session before that question was asked.

There are many ways to understand even the simplest sentence like "John has a bike"
It can mean that John is the one that has one and not somebody else, or, that he "has" one already, or, that he has a bike an not something else for transport.

[X17]

"So much karmic web. People have debts to pay and payments to receive from each other. Hospitals are places of miracles."

"Which Baba Ji are you talking about?"

"They inspire me, they change history in an instant. It's a wonderful thing to see."

Posted by: Spence Tepper | November 30, 2019 at 09:05 PM

So much karmic web. ------> Is it? And i was under the impression people get sick, hospitalized and stay there on their own accord and some die or some escape from the jaws of death because of the late night ghost (GSD) walking the corridors either waving his miracle wand at some or skipping some.

Then you ask which Babaji? It's your Babaji. The one you claim walks the corridors. Mine is very clear - Karma reigns supreme, no miracles, nobody can either give or takeover someone karma. Every karma has to be accounted for and monetary due to / due from isn't the only channel to settle karmas.

Then you go on to say "They change history in an instant" . Since you live in your beloved Charan ask him when is he going to change history next - this time undoing the horrors of WW2. And do share other such instances of changing history??

Probably the only Uncle/Nephew pair in recorded history who can change history i.e. past occured events. Amazing duo your Charan/Babaji are. BTW mine can change the future but will not!!! They abide by HIS will.

Do say a Hi from me to your duo.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi X17
You asked and commented
"So much karmic web. ------> Is it? And i was under the impression people get sick, hospitalized and stay there on their own accord and some die or some escape from the jaws of death because of the late night ghost (GSD) walking the corridors either waving his miracle wand at some or skipping some."

" people get sick, hospitalized and stay there on their own accord... "

No, things happen as a result of genetics, environment, circumstance s and lifestyle. No one chooses to get sick, have their life threatened, or die. Your are greatly mistaken about that.

You wrote
" some escape from the jaws of death because of the late night ghost (GSD) walking the corridors either waving his miracle wand at some or skipping some."

No. Baba Ji ministers to all of them. Like pruning trees, they grow as they must, but some adjustments, some nurturing, some curtailing, all to help them grow. An orange tree cannot be made into an olive tree. But an orange tree can be helped to be a good strong and giving orange tree.

You wrote
"skipping some."

No. No one is skipped. He is there with everyone, intimately, nurturing, comforting. The sea must be crossed, but he is everyone's intimate companion. Every human being, every living creature on earth.

You asked

"Since you live in your beloved Charan ask him when is he going to change history next - this time undoing the horrors of WW2. And do share other such instances of changing history??"

History is unfolding through the work of careful hands. See above. It's when you watch the ship change course that you are amazed. But it was always the destination. You are witnessing it.

At that moment of grace, that was always predestined, to see the hand of love and compassion, acting in perfect balance, it's amazing.

But as to changing history, or the future, or the present, it changes instantly every time when you understand it differently.

It was never what you thought, it isn't what you think, it won't be what you imagine.

Hence it is always changing for you. You are slipping through the multiverse, instant by instant, one creation after the other, seamlessly. It is when you are caught off guard, that the your passage becomes apparent.

And the more you grow to see things from a subtler place, then human history, your notions of all that is real, and all your confidence in reality and what is possible is entirely disrupted. And that's a miracle.

[Spence Tepper]

For example x17
You might slip until that multiverse for a moment where all souls are equal, and these castes of material wealth and poverty are impositions made by a handful of truly evil oppressors. They are indeed ignorant, but so powerful that everyone else becomes their victim. Some of the people you adore, in that alternate universe, are absolute tyrants. But usually, when most folks slip from here to there they can't handle it and subconsciously, they transport themselves right back here.

How odd is it that in a place of true equality, tyrants of sheer evil emerge?

Now, in a place of complete enslavement, those tyrants are victims also, and noble leaders of the other prisoners.

You actually have more power to slip through time and space to the creation you like, but the cost is generally more than people are willing to pay.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen

The place you wrote about is the exact place Swami Ji wrote about.

But very few saints reach the highest region, according to Swami Ji:

"Saints alone reached the fifth stage, Sat Nam, and only a few among them reached the eighth stage, Radha Swami..."

"... Two stages below this is the region of Sat Nam. The saints have called it by various names, such as Sat Lok, Sach Khand, Sat Shabd, Sat Nam and Sat Purush. From this it would appear that these regions are the resting place of the Saints and Supreme Saints. It is on account of this that the Saints rank as the highest... The Radha Soami Pad is also called Alak, Agam and Anami... Nameless, endless, without beginning,... Without location... Cannot even be termed a region. "

That is the empty space from which all things emerge.

But not all Saints get there.

Each Guru only teaches what they know. But they think it is the Supreme Truth. But they can only speak to their own understanding.

[Jesse]

Good to see we're back to full time thoughtless proselytism.

[X17]

Spence,

Your fakery about travelling the inner regions was called a while ago. Your external knowledge about Santmat and/or the primary role of perfect masters is abysmal as well. So kindly do us all a favour...... Stop your gibberish.

With great difficulty we saw the end of Robbin's Oneness. Hope we don't have to endure your version much longer.

Thanks in advance for your understanding.

[Jen]

"But very few saints reach the highest region, according to Swami Ji"

Spence, I'm really over it, don't care about saints or this Master or that Master. I am my own Master even though I don't call myself Jen Ji (lol). I'm voting for Jesse Ji because his comments make me laugh and laughter is the best medicine.

[Arjuna]

@ Jen. Thank you for your last post. I spent a far bit of my life thinking about saints and what stage they have reached. What a waste.

Spence is not God therefore he is not in a position to state that some saints dont reach the highest level. Imagine if you really had access within would you be boring people online. You would lose interest as you have just answered the one most important question - there is existence beyond the human form.

The devils hands have been busy with some on here.

All the best Jen. Let people on here forge the bars which will hold then .

[Spence Tepper]

Hi X17
You wrote
"Your fakery about travelling the inner regions was called a while ago."

How can you know about my inner experiences? Are you claiming to have ESP? Or to have different inner experiences?

If so, please tell me what I'm wearing as I write this, what I'm thinking, and what I ate for dinner. Even I'm not sure what was in that soup. Any thoughts?

"Your external knowledge about Santmat and/or the primary role of perfect masters is abysmal as well."

In your humble opinion?

You are most welcome to quote directly any Sant Mat text in defense of your opinions. And then we will be discussing an actual text.

What you will find, if you do this, is that you are mistaken.

But if not, if I'm mistaken, then I'll learn something new. Happens several times a day. I've gotten used to it. It's called learning.

If you are mistaken, then you can learn something new, too.

It's all upside when two people of different opinions communicate with respect and facts. And listen.

You write

"So kindly do us all a favour...... Stop your gibberish."

LOL... Gibberish is just an unkind way to tell the world that you don't understand.

[Jesse]

"one thing is true that he is not a saint. saints never act this way.
show me in history even one saint that acted like he is doing. "

Show me in history one saint. What evidence do we have at all of these supernatural beings among us?

On this site the devout can't even decide if these saints are real or imagination, or if they are real what their characteristics, qualifications and abilities are.

I'm sticking with Vietnamese and West African animism with all its animal torture and sacrifice. If the gods don't hear sentient animals cry out in severe pain, they certainly won't give blessings. A saint told me this.

Disagree if you want, but it probably means you're a racial supremacist or Aryanist of some kind, and I do NOT communicate with your bigoted kind who think spirituality is limited to one tradition.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen
I cited Swami Ji because of his statement that very few of the Saints reached beyond the fifth region to the eighth, when the eighth is described exactly as you have described that place where consciousness comes from. A place known to others of a different path.

Why so few Saints get there? We all came from there.

Maybe in Swami Ji's understand that place is so rarefied. But if you are A Saint seeking the Father and can't reach your own true home?

That isn't true. It's false.

Anyone who looks to the divine is already on a perfect path. And everyone who does so. Many windows, one light.