Open Thread 25 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

I appreciate that off-topic comments have been going in a previous Open Thread. As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where almost anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks on someone are an exception. Argue with ideas, not insults.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

I'm sorry Jesse I didn't mean to suggest I'd meet Nanak, and crowd your territory.

[Jesse]

"I'm sorry Jesse I didn't mean to suggest I'd meet Nanak"

You're not even getting my sarcasm (it's the density).

The point is that you're a typical new ager trying to borrow terms from religions, interpret them through the vacuous (Real Manjit hours in this beeyotch) RS lens, and then act like you're an expert. Does anyone in the world need Spence Tepper to tell them who the REAL satguru is? What about the TRUE boddhisatva? Are satgurus bodhisatvas? Are bodhisatvas the bab? Was the bab a christ? I don't know man. I gotta ask Spence Tepper who will in turn ask "The inner master" which is also his imagination and a thing he heard about in a book.

Whatever these ancient and supposedly spiritual people's professions and political leanings may have been wouldn't matter to you anyway. You're not interested in what they said or did or what their influences and necessary philosophical predecessors were ie you don't accept the Bhagvad Gita's guru, its monarchist politics, or the fact that there'd be no Sikhism, and thus no RS, without that book, but you also don't accept or know Sikh teachings, yet you claim to know if it's true or not and who is REAL and TRUE.

Run on sentence for the win.

It's all new age poseur bs. You should be at Harold Klemp's guided dream seminars. Or you could, you know, not pretend to be a spiritual master online with the pretense to authoritative claims to who and what is a REAL SantSatGuru™.

Join the real cult with me. The cult of admitting that I don't know shit, and I know none of you know shit either.

[Whodunit]

If you don't know shit then stfu about anything related to any 'religious' or RSSB matter because by your own admission you 'don't know shit'.

As for Sikhs history and religion which became entrenched as a religious entity during and after Arjan's tenure as 5th Sikh guru, that's how all religious institutions begin and become self entitled assumptions as 'beholders of truth'.

Once anyone got a book to enshrine as the 'word of the most high' is when gullible idiots who don't know shit begin to promulgate their book as the holy book above all others holy books. And enforce it by force if necessary.

As did 'holy' Roman empire over all its subjects and Muslim oppression under Mogul tyranny by warlords who used religious nationalism as a form of tyranny and oppression to subjugate their dominions.

Example of reducing humans to religiously indoctrinated nations.

'The Partition was supposed to solve the religious conflict between Muslims and Hindus. Yet, conflicts and tensions still exist today. The destruction of the Babri Mosque in 1992 by Hindu nationalists is a clear example. The mosque was built in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh on a site claimed by Hindus as the sacred birth place of one of their gods. Disputes between Muslims and Hindus over the site began as early as 1949, with each side fighting for ownership of the land. Tensions escalated steadily with the conflict reaching its climax in 1992 when supporters of the Hindu nationalist political party, Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) destroyed the mosque. This led to nation-wide riots that resulted in the death of over 2000 people.'

[Whodunit]

'Nationalism calls forth certain virtues of love and self-sacrifice that can be both productive and dangerous because of their proximity to the virtue of religion. Yet even the most high-minded nationalism cannot seem to do without the more visceral kinds of energy that nationalist rhetoric marshals: the exaltation of “us” and the demonisation of “them.”

[Dungeness]

Imagine if doctors used political correctness guidelines from you sociopaths and just gave the same meds and blood to everyone lol. We'd all die really fast.

No, no, you're right. I was referring to a Guru's lens since they
came up in the discussion. They see only humanity rather than
ethnicity.

They just prescribe for man's endemic spiritual maladies. You
know... like feeling a compulsive need to counter punch or to
imagine "cultists" and "sociopaths" on every blog corner.

[Jesse]

"the exaltation of “us” and the demonisation of “them.”"

An integral and beautiful part of the human experience that none have ever destroyed or altered.

Embrace your physicality, and your humanity, and stop with the superstitious bullshit about overcoming nature, or billions of distinct and often adversarial people "becoming one" and "ending conflict."

[Indian Babas are awesome]

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/self-styled-godman-nithyananda-charged-for-allegedly-kidnapping-children-2135775?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

Current whereabouts unknown.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
You wrote
"Join the real cult with me. The cult of admitting that I don't know shit, and I know none of you know shit either."

For a guy who claims he doesn't know shit, you certainly sling your share.

That's OK. Plants need fertilizer.

[Karim W. Rahmaan]

"No Guru in any recorded literature built a financial empire, or even built or conquered a kingdom when they took the mantle of the Guru."

I think there have in fact been quite a few spiritual gurus with immense wealth and kingdoms. The Bhagvatam is full of spiritual leaders who are also kings. The Mahabharata is a story of saints fighting wars. Whether or not they use the term guru is irrelevant.

Even in the sant tradition that most RSSB'ers are familiar with there is the entire second half of Sikhism, with the idea of "miri piri" and the "sant siphai."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guru_Hargobind

These religions were also caricatures of nationalism, which is something very inconvenient to delusional modernists.

Posted by: Jesse | November 20, 2019 at 01:38 PM

Aye Jessie,

Were you initiated by any of the RSSB teachers? Or perhaps the Ruhani Satsang lineage? I ask because you seem to possess a lot of knowledge. I foresee you could become a Great Siphai.

[Jesse]

Karim, what's up, sweaty?

Actually my full name is Jesse Ruhani Satang Beas. I was initiated by Greta Thunberg into the mysteries of saving the world by the esoteric methods of signing contracts with greasy publicists.

[Spence Tepper]

When things get too hot
Come on over to my place
Yah, we got pot luck
We won't even ask your name
Cause we don't give a fuck
-Dolomite (Rudy Ray Moore)

[anami]

So, if GSD isn’t “God in Human Form”, what does this mean for the whole RSSB belief system?

I'll keep going the way I've been. 34 years, what else can I do? The vows alone have been an exercise, and I still have a long way to go.

[🔥 💖 🔥]

So many times I m reading
"How can these ignoramus still adhere. . . .

The answer is
We are never alone
We are always happy
We are blessed by sweetness in Sound, in View . . , in everything
We are indestructible
We will never die

Not even referring to the effects from the 1001 miracles ( serendipities ). ALL THE TIME

And you read this now from a bad guy ( manmukh ha ha)
You can't imagine how this 4 million initiates feel . . . are helped
24/7

Try to understand , . . nothing can take our happiness

777

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anami
Devotion to the Master is a core foundational principle in Sant Mat.
How can one practice otherwise?

To truly believe we have found the unalloyed truth, pure, without compromise, without question. And that this Truth is Love. And so this love, this pure love for the Master is really the Master loving us, His purity, since we are impure.

The Satsangi has so many positive internal verifications from this kind of devotion, this serves as their proof, their evidence, which is directly obtainable every day, at different levels. At any and every level of devotion there is verification of internal experience and evidence.

When other people try to suggest this is illusion, or self - generated, or simply false, this can be very hard to consider. When we question our own experience we are living in denial.

And both undermine the peace and harmony, the joy and ecstacy of believing that there is nothing but pure love here. Of our worship and devotion for the Master, and of experiencing the reward of that love and worship.

These are also mechanisms built into the body and brain. We were meant for it, just as we were meant to live loving, helpful and peaceful lives that help us to experience this love to ever greater degrees. And when we do not protect that atmosphere, we do harm to ourselves and others around us.

The Master teaches us about this practice which resonates directly with mechanisms within us. Hence our foundation becomes unshakable. Whatever hard facts of a worldly and contrary nature that come to light, we have a supply of evidence internally to the truth of the teachings and the subject of our devotion, the Master, and we can get as much and more of that, at our level, simply by daily practice, and even moment-by-moment practice.

How do we reconcile the two conflicting realities?
One must be right, the other wrong. Well, that itself is a psychology. And a belief. The psychological condition where apparent contradictions must, defacto, result in one truth and the rest false.

Science is a mechanism to separate one truth from other false beliefs. So this psychology gains some surface credibility referring to science.

But science, true science in practice, often leads to a different outcome. The discovery of new factors that explain the apparent discrepancy. That both observed events are factual.

The old laws are refined to accommodate new discoveries. But some of the old laws, refined, turn out to be truthful, and the evidence of the past, still valid within the revised definitions.

A fifth law in physics has just been discovered, because it solves many such conflicts.

Science would have ended long ago if it limited itself to one right and everything else wrong.

But instead what science teaches is that Truth is a developing target. Our understanding becomes refined.

In that light, no information should be dismissed as invalid and rejected. Neither internal nor external.

It is possible, in theory, that God, while benificent, is also a thief. It is all part of reality. But I think more realistically, the human expression of divinity must be in the form we can wholly devote ourselves to. Our form of God needs to be completely good without question, not flawed but were we must ignore or try to push that into the background in denial. That's what we worship. And worship, to be effective, must be with our whole heart and one pointed. Not divided, even subconsciously. We start as divided. The purpose of Spirituality is to integrate and reunite us with the deeper parts of ourselves. Spirituality, the Word, Nam, is the ultimate unifying principle.

So therefore it is helpful to that devotion to understand our own criteria for a good teacher, which is our current mental conception. And the degree to which our devotion is in line with that. And to let ourselves develop, to integrate these diverse things so that our internal condition is peaceful, uncomplicated, clear, and our resulting devotion is singular.

Conceptions may change as we develop. It is our progress that is most important.

Therefore the evidence may not be strong enough to draw a conclusion of right or wrong, but only suggest that our understanding is incomplete.

But that can't be an excuse to ignore facts, because understanding all the facts, internal and external, better, makes for progress.

When people reject inner experience, they limit their progress.

When people reject external evidence, they limit their progress.

Let's accept and embrace the evidence of our practice to continue it. Let's acknowledge as developing evidence what is being presented in the press.

It is legitimate based upon developing evidence.

And let us accept the different working hypotheses as all on the table for the time being. And their proponents worthy as colleagues, even if impassioned to insist their hypotheses are truth. Some elements of truth may be in them.

[Jesse]

820 words, Spence. You just wrote 820 words that I can summarize in 5.

"I am in a cult."

[X17]

"A fifth law in physics has just been discovered, because it solves many such conflicts."

Spence,

You presumably mean the fifth force and not fifth law. Anyways the paper just suggests that the sub-atomic particle could be indicative of a fifth force. Nothing confirmed as yet.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi X17
Yes, it is preliminary, and alternative theories are being developed as we speak. Still, this is mature work by two scientists who have replicated this phenomenon, which they reported initially some time ago. The phenomenon is most likely a real event, and this is why they rushed to get their theory published because, now that the event is verified, everyone will attend to it, as they are beginning to do, developing alternative explanations. Of course those doesn't change what we already know, but refines it.

But both strong and weak forces were unknown 200 years ago.

We will have new laws. Of course they aren't new. We will discover them. And our understanding will develop.

[Spence Tepper]

Jesse, you wrote

"I am in a cult."

Well I don't think you are a cult just yet, though you have written a few hundred words yourself.

Lets just say that my proclivity is to build explanations of actual events that acknowledge the good and the bad. So that we can learn the power of open and diverse thinking, and collegial respect.

And your proclivity is to build explanations that dismiss the good and inflate the bad, so that fear of anything different becomes predominant, they only lesson is isolation and distrust of outsiders and complete obedience to your chosen authority.

You and I were raised differently.

And we have different careers. Yours must include destruction and domination in the service of the status quo.

Mine includes gently dismantling urban myths so that better ways of working can be set in place by the very same people who held the old and destructive views.

My job does not have the luxury of your perspective. Mountains of data must be compiled and shared to help folks who think like you make the tiniest move forward. Because they are they ones in charge of patient care.

[Spence Tepper]

Dear DungeonX
Apparently I've acquired an editor.

[Um]

@ Spence

Just to inform myself as my English is not that well.

>My job does not have the luxury of your perspective. Mountains of data must be compiled and shared to help folks who think like you make the tiniest move forward. Because they are they ones in charge of patient care. <

Is this a way of saying that you are a psychologist, psychiatrist or therapist of sorts and Jesse, a patient that deserve your attention and treatment??

[Dungeness]

You just wrote 820 words that I can summarize in 5.
"I am in a cult"

Actually, it's 821. Did the loss of a word drive you
into a "cult".

1: Hi
2: Anami
...
821: them.

[Jesse]

"Yours must include destruction and domination in the service of the status quo."

Lol your opinions are indistinguishable from those presented by literally every media conglomerate. You've never challenged anything. You believe and then believe more.

Self awareness check, anybody?

"Mountains of data must be compiled and shared to help folks who think like you make the tiniest move forward. Because they are they ones in charge of patient care"

All these Africans keep raping old ladies in nursing homes and nobody's allowed to protest lest your ethnic mafia ruin their life and get them fired. Get the data on that Mr Ted Talks.

People on this blog call me an asshole. The reason is that their perception on the matter is not flawed. They are correct.

The things said about you are also true.

[Jesse]

Yes, Um. I'm a patient who needs 821 words of wisdom to save me. Spence will tikkun olam everything when he becomes the next guru and repays Gurinders debts by skipping comic Con next year.

There's a guy on freespeechextremist.com called MK ULTRA. He's the only sane person left who will fix us all. Without him we're all lost, UM. He's a Tru Mystic who fulfills the definitions from the Tru Spiritual books of Tru Data and SCIENCE. He might even be more science, more mystic and more data than even Spence.

Do you science data mystic much, Um?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
You wrote
"People on this blog call me an asshole."

How is this relevant to my comments?
Some people can swear and it makes it all more real. And others swear and it's just a cover.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
By profession, I'm a hospital management consultant and have been since 1988.
By training, an experimental psychologist and behavioral therapist since 1978.

[anami]

Yes, Spence. I've always loved our Masters more in the abstract than the concrete, so I don't feel much different really. In a strange way I feel better, perhaps for the sense of dissonance. It makes the relationship more participatory, like the difference between going out for good food and cooking in my own kitchen. Who cares if the chef at the restaurant is an alcoholic, as long as I'm not.

[Um]

@ spence,

Regarding Rumi´s Guesthouse.
Again you and I might read and understand that poem as underlining one´s point of view.

Also with regard to what Nanak Ji wrote ….. it is a matter of were the accents are, or whether one reads those lines as an goal or as an means to an end or directed to a subject or an object.

As I wrote before as example the Buddhist who preach ahimsa etc etc, they eat meat and have the animals killed by Muslims, maybe thinking that ho karma will fall on their plate and they are not involved in caritative institutions as Christians do.

An pelgrim on the path is admonished by mystics, to be kind to whoever crosses their path but they are also warned not to stray from that path with the intention to do good in the world or make the world better.

But again I can be totally wrong … this is just my understanding.

If the house is in flames … let it burn, he said

[um]

@ Spence

Before I forget!!

>>Let these be your criteria, Um, for judging a true Sant Sat Guru<<

I do hope and wish for myself Spence that there will never be an occasion for me to judge a human being that is seen by others as a guru, mystic, saint or teacher.
N E V E R
That would be a disgrace

If I feel attracted to a so called human being, emotionally, intellectually, I might go to him but these mental considerations are in no way an statement about that human being. If that makes me going to an so called false guru … so be it. Than the Lord, if there is one is to blame for leading me on the false track for which he has ofcourse his divine intentions

[Um]

@Jesse
I didn't grasp what you wrote .. my command of english is just enough to buy myself a cup of coffee. Often I have to give up an ongoing debate for that reason.

But I am neither scientist, not in data and would not call myself a mystic. I hope that will anser your question.

[Um]

@ spence
Thank you …

[Jesse]

"an experimental psychologist and behavioral therapist "

Everyone I've met who studied psychology was most in need of psychological help, and least qualified to help others. Children of psychologists seem to invariably have mental crises regularly and seek to distance themselves from their families. Maybe you're the rare exception!

Um, I'm playing games with you, and this other manifestly insane man who rambles here. Don't think too much about it.

https://twitter.com/ramzpaul/status/1197918807412658179

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You write
"I do hope and wish for myself Spence that there will never be an occasion for me to judge a human being that is seen by others as a guru, mystic, saint or teacher.
N E V E R
That would be a disgrace"

Why only for someone with that title? The title given by other limited human beings?

Why not for everyone?

""I'll tell you a terrible secret – Are you listening to me? There isn't anyone out there who isn't Seymour's Fat Lady.......
Don't you know that goddam secret yet? And don't you know – listen to me, now – don't you know who that Fat Lady really is? . . . Ah, buddy. Ah, buddy. It's Christ Himself. Christ Himself, buddy."
-Franny and Zooey, J. D. Salinger

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"If the house is in flames … let it burn, he said"

The house is your own house and no other. Burn baby, burn!

And you can leave that burning house for a better land the moment you take the hand of a refugee. They are children born in the land you seek, and when you cross with them that makes you their relative, family, so that you may enter where foreigners are not permitted.

It is true they need your help. But you may only enter carrying them across the threshold with you, even as a father or mother carries their infant home from the hospital, Or as a man carries his new bride across the threshold. This is no burden. This is pure joy.

Make the stranger, the indigent, the refugee, the aged and the infirm your new children, Um. They are only children. But you must become a child with them to enter the gates of heaven.

You see perfection in the Master. That has no love in it.

Find perfection in the refuge, the handicapped, the addict. The ones who are bullied, they ones who have lost everything. They will be your true Master, and you may have their company as much as you like.

Let this be the true measure of your love of the Master. That you see Him in the eyes of the refugee, the handicapped, the aged and infirm.

That you are so captivated you cannot look away.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
You wrote
"Everyone I've met who studied psychology was most in need of psychological help, and least qualified to help others. Children of psychologists seem to invariably have mental crises regularly and seek to distance themselves from their families. Maybe you're the rare exception!"

Of course! In my own eyes!

I'm special, Jesse, just like you, Bro, just like you, and every other SOB with an opinion.

But let me step aside for a moment and ask you a trick question.

What do you love more than yourself?

[Jesse]

"What do you love more than yourself? "

Money and my momma.

If you're gonna ask a "trick question" don't say it's a trick question. You'll never get a sincere answer that way.

[Dungeness]

And you can leave that burning house for a better land the moment you take the hand of a refugee. They are children born in the land you seek, and when you cross with them that makes you their relative, family, so that you may enter where foreigners are not permitted.

Noble, heartfelt sentiment but Um aptly includes the mystic's reminder:

"A pilgrim on the path is admonished by mystics, to be kind to whoever crosses their path but they are also warned not to stray from that path with the intention to do good in the world or make the world better."

[The smart one]

"What do you love more than yourself? "

Money and my momma.

If you're gonna ask a "trick question" don't say it's a trick question. You'll never get a sincere answer that way.

Posted by: Jesse | November 23, 2019 at 09:14 PM

Not all are smart like you 😀

[The Smart one]

"A pilgrim on the path is admonished by mystics, to be kind to whoever crosses their path but they are also warned not to stray from that path with the intention to do good in the world or make the world better."

Posted by: Dungeness | November 23, 2019 at 10:06 PM

For the mystics themselves do not stray from the path to do good in the world or make the world better.

[Um]

@Spence

That were quite impressive answers.

Writing this sentence, I am reminded of an letter of an American Psychologist in which he explains that he deals with satsangis differently than non satsangis as one had to adapt to this world and the other not.

As smart one wrote: "For the mystics themselves do not stray from the path to do good in the world or make the world better" Whatever I read from mystics, they never lived the live of say a Sister Theresa, they all lived a sheltered, recluse way, often hidden in woods or mountain caves.

Those of lesser grade, stay in remote monasteries, like the Cartusians or as recluse.

What you wrote so impressive about looking into the eyes of the needy, is considered by them, I hardly dear to write it, as a trap … like other more attractive traps that draws the attention outward.

All animals hunt in a different place.
Some eat everything some are very selective.

Those who work within the closure of their rooms, the composers, the writers, the scientists and many more, cannot present their gifts to the world by working in refugee camps. Someone has to drive the train, teach children, work in an hospital et etc Some have to live a sheltered life and others in the public. Others are in the government or organisation of the UNO in charge of public welfare. Some docters and nurses go and work in the frontlines of misery.

Crows are born to be crows … to try to paint their beak yellow and teach them to sing like Nightingales is an affront towards the creator who when he created to crow said that it was good when he saw the work of his hand.

Finally the pull must come from within … that pull is the talent, the calling, worldly and spiritualy.

And .

Millions upon millions are glad they will have some shelter, a piece of food, they have no time, no lust, to indulge in writings as we do, their lives is utter misery from the start to te end.
Nobody can end that misery …. NOBODY ...Christ called it a vale of tears.

If it is your calling Spence to act according what you write … go for it.
It is "A" way to go not "THE" way

[Jesse]

Just last year multiple governments used faked atrocity evidence as an excuse to go kill people and bring us all to the brink of world war, but we're supposed to believe it's literally impossible that they have ever done this before?

"I saw the photos of the shoes!"

"I saw the photo of a random kid!"

Humans are cretinous. Only mystics know the sacred mysteries of atrocity propaganda.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7718627/Sexed-dossier-furore-alleged-poison-gas-attack-Assad.html

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You wrote
""A pilgrim on the path is admonished by mystics, to be kind to whoever crosses their path but they are also warned not to stray from that path with the intention to do good in the world or make the world better."

Everything in balance.

But this path of Seva is part and parcel of building and maintaining the spiritual environment for meditation. They go hand in hand. It is simply bringing one's own life into balance.

It is the path. Because our path is always crossed with those in need, every day. That's not an occasional event, unless we live in substantial isolation and denial. Let's open our eyes!

But you can see how this tiny latitude, to be sure you are safe first, has been exploited into justifying a caste system. And the tiny latitude to be comfortable, is now the justification for excess and exploitation.

How the mind drives the car off road and into the ditch again and again.

Whatever teaching places charity and service as separate from our own development is no true path. It has already lost its way.

But is that RSSB? Was that RSSB? Or what we make of it?

How easily one tiny drop of poison ruins the entire water supply.

If we forget brotherhood all the meditation in the creation won't help us move one step.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"As smart one wrote: "For the mystics themselves do not stray from the path to do good in the world or make the world better" Whatever I read from mystics, they never lived the live of say a Sister Theresa, they all lived a sheltered, recluse way, often hidden in woods or mountain caves."

If you will please recall Maharaji's teachings on this he said that this notion of mystics living secluded in the Himalayas, or in caves away from civilization is wrong. We take our mind with us.

Our place is where we find ourselves, and there are always those in need right in front of us. They are everywhere, in our own family, at the market place, and locations where we may volunteer not more than a twenty minute drive from our homes. Serving them helps us control our own mind, humble us, reminds us we are no different.

This is the foundation of brotherhood.

How easily the mind forgets the path!

But we can all remind each other. We are all in the same boat, pauper, professional, poacher, pickpocket and philanthropist. And we should comfort each other on this small crossing.

Let me remind you of what our Master already taught us.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
"If you're gonna ask a "trick question" don't say it's a trick question. You'll never get a sincere answer that way.

Posted by: Jesse | November 23, 2019 at 09:14 PM

Your answer was your momma and money.
Was that insincere?

[Um]

@ Spence

If there is ample proof in what he said and wrote for your point of view, the point for which you are making your self strong here and , go for it Steve ….

[A Smart One]

But this path of Seva is part and parcel of building and maintaining the spiritual environment for meditation. They go hand in hand. It is simply bringing one's own life into balance.

Whatever teaching places charity and service as separate from our own development is no true path. It has already lost its way.

If we forget brotherhood all the meditation in the creation won't help us move one step.

Posted by: Spence Tepper | November 24, 2019 at 07:25 AM

This may be the foundation of brotherhood but certainly not the foundation sant mat.

The first and foremost Seva and essential too is Bhajan Simran and being detached (therefore largely remaining unaffected by circumstances/happenings around) whilst living in this world is what it's all about. In fact all Masters have been explicitly clear about this bit.

A full on selfish path, I not giving brotherhood much thought, have not only taken one step, but many ^many steps in my meditation.

.

[Jesse]

"Your answer was your momma and money.
Was that insincere?"

Yes.

Also your words about RSSB remind me of all the gibberish from Paul in the Bible. Almost like you're channeling him.

The faith is whatever you feel like at the moment, and changes depending on what questions you're being asked. There's an absolutely unnecessary attempt to dazzle people with lofty sounding ideas that sound more political than spiritual or divinely inspired.

Unlike you today, RS, like most indic religions, does not prioritize seva, and certainly not for reasons of "brotherhood" or the family of humanity. Far greater emphasis is placed on detachment and not being part of this world, and seva is usually done in service of gurus, not people. Look at India for over 1 billion examples of this system and its adherents.

Helping people is sometimes considered a negative thing because it causes attachment. This is why there's no social time at satsangs. Wouldn't want people to start helping each other and knowing each other.

You might have noticed that all the RS gurus married within their caste as well. They're not western liberals. They're tribalists. They don't care about brotherhood and humanity outside that context.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Smart One
You wrote
"A full on selfish path, I not giving brotherhood much thought, have not only taken one step, but many ^many steps in my meditation."

If your objective is personal gain then you have your path.

But if your objective is personal development, that cannot progress without brotherhood. Because we are all one, spiritually.

When you actually see Baba Ji in the face of the old destitute drunk with the shopping cart full of rags on the highway, you won't wait for him to ask for anything. You will first be shocked to see Baba Ji there. Then you will stop the car, step out, and place money into his hands, enjoin him to spend it for food and shelter, and not anything else. It will br an automatic reaction.

And then to see that old man reeking in alcohol, with Baba Ji's face, return the money into your hands and smile and say, "child, I'm fine, I don't really need this." And then all you can say is, "you didn't need to ask for it, that's the point." And then watch him smile and hand the money to the destitute woman with her card board boxes a few steps away.

I can't begin to explain what happened. But I was the one who drove away weeping like a child.

You have no idea.

He is everywhere you are not willing to go.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
What do you love more than yourself?

Your answer was your momma and money, but you claimed this was an insincere answer.

What would be the sincere answer?

[Dungeness]

You might have noticed that all the RS gurus married within their caste as well. They're not western liberals. They're tribalists. They don't care about brotherhood and humanity outside that context.

No, I don't think so. Under Maharaj Charan Singh, the Dera ran free eye
camps for many years. Tens of thousands of the impoverished needing
cataract surgery came from all over India. Although I haven't been there
for decades, I suspect various other charity services continue today. The
trappings may appear tribal but the reality is quite different. They embrace
all of humanity.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
The charity of the Dera is one thing. Yes, it is a living miracle.
Your charity and mine are another. But they can be the same. And if they are not the same, have we made a lasting progress?

I didn't come here to go to the Regions. That was already there. It was handed to me. It's part of my biology. I came here to learn and live in brotherhood. And I'm not going anywhere else permanently until I do.

Is anyone else on this path so different?

[Jesse]

"Under Maharaj Charan Singh, the Dera ran free eye
camps for many years. Tens of thousands of the impoverished needing
cataract surgery came from all over India."

Paid for by Westerners.

The guru just showed up for the photo opportunity with his own camera crew, as he always did.

[The Smart One]

Is anyone else on this path so different?

Posted by: Spence Tepper | November 24, 2019 at 05:31 PM

Yes. I am here as me with God's immense grace to fulfill the only objective of human birth - God Realisation.

Everything else are chains to hold/bring you back as who knows worms in the next birth.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Smart
Your wrote
"Yes. I am here as me with God's immense grace to fulfill the only objective of human birth - God Realisation."

My God sings in every atom of the creation. I reaslize God every instant I forget myself in helping someone else.

And not just me. Many others, too. I learned about it from real Sat Gurus, not the stage actors in turbans and turbo-jets people seen addicted to.

The secret of God realization, the secret of overcoming self is to lose yourself in selfless service. It is instant bliss. The layers of ego, the meditation work of ages is shed in a moment of compassion.

With the poorest of the poor He is there.

And when I turn from those in need, I am lonely for my God.

Where is that beautiful refuge, where can you escape the simple duties of just being a decent human being? That path of fighting with yourself never ends. There is no end to overcoming yourself. There is no getting over yourself without service.

You think God realization is a way around that, a short cut past compassion? Meditation is a substitute for humanity?

Funny how the mind works.

Don't you know that God IS compassion. That is all he is.

God has no door. Humans make a door and then close it on each other.

And call that wisdom?

[Dungeness]

Paid for by Westerners. The guru just showed up for the photo
opportunity with his own camera crew, as he always did.

Huh? Where did get that information?

Dr. Pawha, the chief surgeon, was Indian as were over two
hundred other doctors. About thirty were non- Indian, all
providing services gratis. Not to speak of the 7K volunteers
involved in the seva according to the video. The Dera
provided operations, food, and lodging for patients and
their families, again for free.

Difficult to watch without tears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYTHBCLvZp4

[Jesse]

"I came here to learn and live in brotherhood. And I'm not going anywhere else permanently until I do. "

Start living in brotherhood by not supporting the most destructive political policies that have ever been implemented on earth, and that are responsible for maximum human suffering.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
You asked me to live as you do
"By not supporting the most destructive political policies that have ever been implemented on earth, and that are responsible for maximum human suffering."

In your humble opinion?

Perhaps being as polarized as you are it seems so.

But being polarized also has the danger of living in an ever smaller and smaller world.

And everything outside that tiny and shrinking space, hardly enough room for oneself, is so very much "the most destructive" and "maximum human suffering" by "tribalists" in a world filled with "atrocity propaganda", experiencing "mental crises regularly", where people who don't think like you are to be hated and feared, in turns, because of their "superstitious bullshit". And indeed from your tiny space it seems all one can do is watch "All these Africans keep raping old ladies in nursing homes".

Yet from all that you claim to know how to live in brotherhood?

But you haven't answered my question, to know sincerely what you love more than yourself.

I know what you hate, it's all over you. It's your entire winter wardrobe. And in tiny your South Pole igloo, living in an ice box home, that's the only wardrobe you ever wear.

But I suspect there's a Hawaiian shirt somewhere in your closet. One with big flowers and surfboards.

Try it on. It might still fit.

[Jesse]

You're amazingly dishonest and/or naive Dungeness. You probably weren't aware that most of the "sevadars" at the dera are paid. It's one of the reasons I suspect they discouraged us from talking to them when I was there.

The money required for such an operation such as the eye camp doesn't fall from the sky or from the one rupee donations of people who eat 15 rupees of food every time they visit.

The reason such videos bring tears to your eyes is because you're highly susceptible to propaganda.

[Jesse]

I'm guessing The Smart One is Indian since he actually understands the foundation of sant mat, whereas Spence is trying to morph sant mat to conform to Judaism's tikkun olam philosophy that also took root in Protestantism.

Sant mat is not western liberal humanism or an Abrahamic faith. Get it through your heads. No indic religion works that way.

[um]

@Spence

>>I didn't come here to go to the Regions. That was already there. It was handed to me. It's part of my biology. I came here to learn and live in brotherhood. And I'm not going anywhere else permanently until I do.

Is anyone else on this path so different? <<

Yes!!

What they have is believe based upon "hearsay" from the rare people like you and the "bigger ones" that came to write the so called "holy books".

What Rumi, Kabir, The prophet, Tolle etc etc etc wrote is all trance based

[Dungeness]

You're amazingly dishonest and/or naive Dungeness. You probably weren't aware that most of the "sevadars" at the dera are paid.
...
The money required for such an operation such as the eye camp doesn't fall from the sky or from the one rupee donations of people who eat 15 rupees of food every time they visit.

I agree there were seva donations... both cash and equipment. But
you would seem to hint there were secret, if not nefarious, financing
conduits for these eye camps... that it was all a P.R. stunt of some kind.
You assert this without evidence. Then you boldly claim "most of the
sevadars are paid". How do you know? Cite any evidence for that.

Trolling becomes disinformation when not informed by facts. Even worse
it masquerades as truth when, in reality, it's often a lie... even a vile,
loathsome lie such as the comment that "no one died in gas chambers".
Further, when challenged, trollers inevitably fail to offer any defense
because they can't. They simply repeat the lie in a louder voice or go
silent and slink back into the shadows.

Trolling is no longer harmless fun at that point.

[Jim Sutherland]

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/bikram-yoga-founder-flees-country-arrest-warrant-issued/

I wonder if GSD will also flee India, to another country that will host him, once the Courts try to put him in Jail? Bakram is still giving the Couts his middle FINGER, and is still recruiting females to his Yoga Teachers 9 week Intensive trading work shops, in spite of Rape judgement against him. His Wife knew all about his sexual activities with the young attractive Yoga females he hit on, but she ignored it and kept driving her Bentley. Netflex has in interesting Documentary of Bakram Yoga .
Jim S.

[Whodunit]

I like the way these 'depraved' 'satsangis' link GSD with the likes of these other goons like Ram Rahim and this Hollywood yoga instructor Choudry or the likes of Osho Rajneesh

Laughable.

[Brian Hines]

Whodunit, you're right. There's really no comparison between what Gurinder Singh Dhillon allegedly has done, and the other spiritual wrong-doers. The RSSB guru is in a league of his own. Who else reportedly enriched himself/herself to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars while preaching about the need to lead a clean and simple life? Only Dhillon.

[Whodunit]

Yeah Brian you should know

With all the inside info of how big a mafia boss he (supposedly) is
After all you wrote the treatise on how it works as Life is Fair without excuse or exception.

Does not a leaf stir without the silent will of the one who wills it.

Or should we quote Gibran

'And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree,
So the wrong-doer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all.'

[Jesse (Bobby Fischer Stan)]

Whodunit, let's say everyone who is at least somewhat confident in Gurinder's guilt ends up being correct and the justice system agrees and punishes him with a prison sentence. What will you do?

[Whodunit]

What would you do Bobby Fischer Stan? Rejoice at the eye for eye, tooth for tooth delivery of Kal's Justice?

Huzur Charan Singh's appointment of Baba Gurinder Singh Dhillon as patron is a mistake in your establishment of jurisprudence? You have no leverage to make such a claim, your lenses of discerning are not sufficient to verify righteous 'law' from irreverence.

After all Pilot crucified Christ at the behest of the seething religious mob
Herod Antipas beheaded John at his wife's jealous insisting

Mansur was brutally tortured and crucified by the 'righteous indignation' of the 'politically correct holder's of Islamic law' for proclaiming “Anā al-ḥaqq” (“I am the Truth”—i.e. God)

Jahangir beheaded Arjan likewise
Aurungzeb murdered his brother Dara Shikoh and turned his blood lust vengeance on his guru Sarmad for refuting allegiance to state Muslim Decree, beheaded in a mosque by order of the Muslim emperor for heresy and accused of being an apostate.

All under who's views of rights and wrongs?

Why should any mystics fare differ from the 'norm of society' under the rules of Ceasars and the dictates of the 'lucidity' of the 'sane' among you?

They don't operate by Jahangir or Aurungzeb or Ceasars decree nor by your laws of supporting your irrefutable desire for vengeful 'justice'.

[Jim Sutherland]

It took many years of private female abuse of Bikram, before ONE finally surfaced, confessing she was raped by the Guru , in his own house, with his wife up stairs with their two children. Then, more guilty abused females also surfaced. Then, his own private female Business Manager also ratted on him, who knew all along that he was a sexual predator, but like the others, she did not want to loose her comfortable position. The other abused females all put up with him molesting and hitting on them, because they had to survive the 9 weeks Yoga Training School they had paid $10,000 to attend to franchise their own Yoga Studios using his high profile Name. So he had a captive audience ,mostly, of young attractive fit, females. The Netfex Documentary showed how he not only flirted with many of the young females, he took a shine to, but his language got more abusive and sexual as he became more familiar with each group. He really Reminded me very much like I heard GSD talk to his Western Satsangis at the Dera when I was there in Oct.. 2017. If Sheena’s Book is read carefully, to review how GSD spoke to her, and trashed her in front of not only his Wife, but others, and how he flirts with the young adoring females asking him for his blessings,...and not forget him asking a 68 year old Nutrition Doctor if he still thought of his wife’s Butt, or knew what a 69 was, then add up all the Financial Fraud News Articles, In addition to his closing off most of the historic Buildings of the Dera, for his own private use, as Chris posted,...I think it’s only a matter of time before there will be a Documentary on Netflex exposing RSSB as the Cult of Singh’s., with GSD as the Star.
Jim S.

[Mahatma61944]

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