Shocking tale of a punch in the face at a RSSB meeting

Here's Part 2 of Osho Robbins' (not his real name) tale of what happened to him at a meeting of Radha Soami Satsang Beas devotees at the RSSB Haynes Park center in England.

Part 1 can be read in "Osho Robbins' 'Crime of the Century' at a RSSB Haynes Park satsang."

Part 2 is long, so you'll need to click on the continuation link to read the full account. Here's some definitions of a few words Robbins uses in his report. "Satsang" is a spiritual talk. "Baba Ji" refers to the RSSB guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillon. "Sevadar" is a volunteer.

I'm sharing this story because it illustrates the hypocrisy and narrow-mindedness of religious people, whether of the East or West. When volunteer devotees act much worse than ordinary human beings, and apparently no higher-ups care about their bad behavior, this reflects badly on their religious organization -- in this case Radha Soami Satsang Beas.

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17 August 2019 Haynes Park
Seven sevadars attack one satsangi,
completely unprovoked and without reason

This account from Saturday 17^th August 2019, describes how I was peacefully walking towards the exit of Haynes Park to leave, and was stopped and held by seven people and dragged to a private spot and then intimidated and punched in the face and then later pushed into the back of a pitch black van to intimidate me further. Further threats were also made.

You can make up your own mind as to whether the actions of those seven people were reasonable. What I can guarantee is that this account is accurate. Furthermore I have no reason to lie because I am not seeking any specific outcome. I am simply presenting the facts of what happened. Beyond that it is not of my concern. I don’t even care about being “re-instated.”

So, I got banned from satsang. How the heck did that happen?

Oh yes, now I remember: it was because I took a mobile phone into satsang and recorded 5 minutes of an English speaker.

But wait a minute… LOTS of people do much much much more than that.

A quick search on YouTube shows there are MANY satsangs / Q&A of BabaJi already online. I stopped counting at 200. Clearly its not a big issue, otherwise RSSB would have done something about it.

Here’s a few examples: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPsz5Z2JvpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXX6t1F9ZBA&t=113s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2E86eQPNwU

Now contrast this with what the sevadars did:

1. Took my phone, lied about where it was, refused to return it for approx. 5 hours. 
2. Sent a lower sevadar to officially take responsibility for it – if it got lost.
3. Fabricated a story about me threating to “kick a sevadar in the nuts” : something I can prove 100% to be a lie because it’s simply out of character.
4. Forced another sevadar to lie 
5. Banned me without authority because it was based on a lie.

Now I know that sevadars are not perfect, but give me a break.

We’re not talking about perfect here. 

We’re talking about NORMAL, DECENT human beings.

If this is the result of following RSSB for maybe 30+ years, then clearly it’s not working.

“By their fruits Ye shall know them.” Says the Bible. 

But no matter…  Let’s carry on…because the show must go on…

Now we get onto Day 2: the Saturday satsang. There was simply no way the ban was real as it was based on a lie. I also did not think that the person who banned me had any authority to ban me. He also gave me nothing in writing, giving me even more reason to question its validity.

And to add to it all, I had a dream that night. In the dream, I was on the mic, and it was a Q&A session, and BabaJi was saying “Absolutely, the master loves every disciple like his own child.”

I can only guess, my subconscious mind created the dream from the words of the old satsangi I had met that day who had moved me to tears by saying “Does anyone ever forget his own son?” when I had asked him if he recognised me.

Anyway, I took that to mean that BabaJi wants me to attend satsang that day and if he wants me to attend, who am I to fight against that? I am not saying it was some inner revelation – just what I took the dream to mean.

So I decided I would attend satsang that day (Saturday). nThis time I took my own car because I did not want to inconvenience anyone else. I drove into Haynes Park and nobody paid any special attention to me. So clearly I was not banned, because if I was banned, at least some sevadar would have recognized me. 

If I was banned, they would all have a photo of me. So I parked up and walked to the satsang tent. Once again, nobody paid any special attention to me. Even more evidence the ban was a lie.

As I walked along, I saw the same guy who I had met the previous day: Sevadar #2. The one with the short term memory problem. This time he did not ask me “do you know who I am?” so his memory may have improved. A good sign I guess.

He asked me to step to the side of the main walkway, but after the previous day’s experience, I decided to ignore his request. After all, it was only a request, and it was a free country.

I said “No thank you. I am going to attend satsang. I have no mobile phone with me. You can check.”

Then something happened that frankly shocked me.

He started physically pulling me to the side, by grabbing my arm. This was uncalled for.

“Please let go of me, this is assault” I said as I tried to get free of his grip.

Next thing I know, another guy grabs my other arm. 

Now I was getting a little concerned as this was not normal behaviour. If they had an issue, all they had to do was get one guy to watch where I sit and phone the police to get me removed. That would be the legal and proper procedure to follow. Physically grabbing me was going beyond the call of duty.

“Let go of me, and I will leave” I said. Still they held onto me as if I was some criminal, which I guess in their mind I was.

Just then, by chance, my niece, my sister and my brother in law just happened to be walking by. There are no mistakes in the universe. It was meant to happen that way.  God has perfect timing.

They saw me and came over to find out what was happening.

“Excuse me – what’s going on here?” asked my brother in law, in a tone that clearly said “Don’t mess with me.”

“None of your business, just move along” said the sevadar, thinking it was just some passing curious people.

“It IS my business. I am his brother,” replied my brother in law, “Why are you holding him? Please let go of him.”

“You don’t know what he has done” said another sevadar who was close by.

“He threatened another sevadar and he has been banned” said one of the sevadars.

“I threatened nobody – but anyway I want to leave now” I said and they let me go because they had to.

I explained that I am going home as I don’t want to attend a satsang if this is how I was going to be treated and I walked off towards the exit of Haynes Park. 

That should have been the end of the matter. 

They didn’t want me there and I offered to leave since they clearly didn’t, and were not going to allow me to attend satsang. 

Those are not the actions of a “trouble maker.”

As I walked along – suddenly two people grabbed me and four others turned up, apparently from nowhere. 

Two people (Sevadars – but a new breed I guess as that’s not how a normal sevadar behaves) grabbed each arm, and the other two were standing in front of me. 

This was unbelievable. This was a pre-meditated and unprovoked attack on me. This was not self-defence. This was not using reasonable force to control some trouble maker.

This was an act of bullying and unprovoked violence against a person who was in the process of peacefully leaving Haynes Park.

I can understand it when some commenters say “I don’t believe it” because I too was having trouble believing this was really happening. It was happening in broad daylight, in front of lots of people and everyone was just walking by because I guess you don’t imagine an assault can take place in a holy place. 

I recognised the people from two years ago. 

These were the same people who had kindly asked me to go the other way out of the tent. Only that time – they asked with folded hands and I obeyed. Once again it shows I am not a violent person because I simply obeyed their orders at that time.

But now it seems they had graduated to using violence.

I asked them to let me go and they said that I had to wait for sevadar #1 to arrive. 

I said I had no interest in meeting him again but they insisted. 

Just then sevadar #1 arrived on the scene. Clearly all this was happening by his express order.

As a matter of courtesy, I offered to shake hands but he refused saying “I am not going to shake your hand”

Clearly he had other plans going through his mind.

“I banned you yesterday – so why have you come here today?” He asked as if it was some big deal.

I answered him as honestly as I could.

“I don’t think you have the authority to ban me”

That was the truth – in particular because he had to make up a lie to justify the ban.

“Okay – I will show you what authority I have” he replied.

Then the six guys started to push me along to take me somewhere private. 

Sevadar #1 was physically pushing and punching me from behind, while the others led me away like I was some sort of prisoner.

I resisted but it was pointless against six strong guys.

As I was taken past a standing sevadar, I said “Hey – look – this is called seva” but he ignored it. I guess he was a little confused but thought it was not his business to interfere.

If this gets investigated, that sevadar is a witness and it’s not something he is likely to forget. 

They took me into a hall on the left, and there were several more sevadars there, who saw me being taken. They too saw clearly and must have wondered what was going on. 

Once I was in a private place, Sevadar #1 said “When I ban you – it means you are not allowed back. Do you not understand what it means to be banned?”

He was standing about a foot away from me and the other six were standing all around me.

Sevadar #2 was standing to his right and behind him, facing me.

“I have heard BabaJi say publicly that nobody is banned from a public satsang” I stated boldly. 

Sevadar #1 was visibly getting a tiny bit upset now because I was not intimidated by his actions.

“Except unless I ban them” he added in a voice that demanded obedience.

He was clearly implementing his own version of his guru’s famous adage “my way, or the highway.”

Well, at least something of the guru had rubbed off on him.

“But BabaJi never said that” I volunteered.

“No – I am saying it” he said, implying that his words were far more important that his guru’s words. 

“Oh really?” I asked “And while I am here can you just clarify exactly which satsangs I am banned from?”

“All satsangs – national, local, international” was his reply.

“And whose property is Haynes Park?”

“It’s my personal property” said Sevadar #1, arrogantly.

“And what about the other satsang centres?” I asked, just to see how far he would take this delusional thinking. 

“Mine. All mine. I own them all” he said.

Obviously this guy was some big hotshot, at least in his own mind.

 “Okay – and how long is the ban for?” I continued, now rather enjoying the dialogue.

“Until I change my mind” said Sevadar #1.

“And what is likely to get you to change your mind?” I said, thinking that I might as well use the opportunity to get the full information now.

“God knows” he answers.

Now this was genuinely funny and I could not resist a slight laugh.

Sevadar #2 did NOT think it was funny at all. In fact the expression on his face said it all. He was not amused at all.

“You think it’s funny?” asked Sevadar #2.

Clearly it was a rhetorical question. 

I was still considering my response to this when Sevadar #1 punched me in the face.

“Fuuuucckkkkiinnngggggg   Helllllll” I said , as a reaction to the sudden unprovoked attack.

“Are you swearing at me?” asked Sevadar #1. Another rhetorical question.

“Not at you!” I replied. “You’ve broken my glasses”

The left lens had broken into two pieces and they were on the floor.

I asked them to find my glasses but nobody helped me.

“I need them to drive home” I said, but nobody bothered to help.

Finally I managed to find the two pieces and put them in my pocket.

What shocked me was that nobody said to Sevadar #1 “Hey – what are you doing?”

It was one thing to intimidate me – but quite another to actually punch me.

After all I wasn’t causing any trouble. Just asking a few questions to get clarification on the ban.

“Let’s just leave it at this, because things can get a lot worse. I know where you live.” suggested Sevadar #1.

By now it was becoming clear. These were not sevadars. 

This was like something out of a gangster movie. 

Someone radioed for a van. 

I heard Sevadar #1 say to the others: “Nobody saw anything. Nothing happened. You got it?”

They all agreed. But they forgot this is the age of the internet. There are no secrets.

Clearly they knew they had gone too far. I don’t believe it was their intention to go that far. I believe they intended to intimidate me so I get the message to not return again. However Sevadar #1 got angry when I was clearly not taking him seriously. 

After all, just imagine what’s going on in their minds. Seven sevadars versus one satsangi. And the one satsangi is not taking them seriously. He is asking questions and laughing at the answers. Must be tough on the ego. 

When Sevadar #1 punched me in the face, how come at least one of the others didn’t stop him? After all, this was an unprovoked attack. I was not a threat, except to their ego.

They must all be of the same mentality. They don’t care how far they go. 

What would have happened if I had resisted or fought back? What if one punch had turned into a serious fight and they had hurt me?

Were they really going to let me walk away with serious injuries and risk prosecution and a jail sentence?

I N T E R V A L

Reminds me of this scene from Sholay the Bollywood movie.

But with one difference:  

BabaJi:  kitne aadme the?

Savadars:  ik tha, sardar.

Babaji:  ik aadmi?  Aur aap saat (7) ?

               Phir be aap ni mukka maara?

               Sauja ki Babaji kush hoyga?

               Yeh to hamara guest tha! 

                Humari iizat sab metti mein malade

Here’s the clip     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leLE6PW3dxQ

E N D    O F    I N T E R V A L

The van arrived. I took leave, unaware it wasn’t over yet. I shook the hand of Sevadar #1 and told him I would not be coming back after that. This time he shook hands, unlike the previous time.

“You said that last time” he replied. But he had it wrong. After he banned me the previous day, I simply took my phone and left. I didn’t promise anything.

“I will definitely not be returning after this” I said

And I meant it. After all, this was not the RSSB I knew. The RSSB I knew was full of love.

Each Radha Soami follower treated each other literally as his brother and sister back in those days.  

Anyway – on with the events:

Sevadar #1 reminded me to “leave it at this” because “I know where you live.”

The sevadars took me towards the van, but instead of sitting in the front, pushed me into the back of the van. When the door closed, it was pitch black.

There was no window, not even into the driver area. Clearly this was not over yet.

There were two sevadars in the van with me:  Sevadar #2 and another guy.

Sevadar #2 put his phone on so I could see him. Not the torch, just the light from the screen.

“This is good seva you are doing” I said as the van drove off.

I had no idea where they were taking me or what they had planned. 

Clearly it was a move designed to intimidate me further and to show me that it could get a lot worse. 

The van drove for about 5 minutes and then Sevadar #2 opened the door. I stepped out. I was outside the front gates of Haynes Park. 

“You are now outside of Haynes Park and must never come back” said Sevadar #2.

“Only one problem,” I announced, “My car is inside of Haynes.”

“Not my problem,” answered Sevadar #2 casually.

“How am I supposed to get home?” I asked.

“That is your problem – not mine. You cannot re-enter Haynes Park” insisted Sevadar #2.

He then told the sevadar on duty not to allow me to enter Haynes Park.

The two sevadars then walked off into Haynes Park. 

This was ridiculous.  I was not even allowed to go to my car. 

As I was planning how to handle the situation, I noticed the police officers on traffic duty, so I decided I would tell them what had happened. They would obviously allow me to retrieve my car.

But just then, the two sevadars re-appeared. They were on the phone, I presume with Sevadar #1.

“We will take you to your car” they announced, obviously figuring it made no sense to leave me there without my car.

This time I sat in the front of the van and they drove to my car.

One of them got into the passenger seat of my car, while Sevadar #2 took a picture of me with his phone.

“I am the dangerous one” he announced, “not the guy who punched you. He is the nice guy. Ask your brother who I am, he knows me well.”

The sevadar sitting next to me then told me to drive, while the van followed at a distance.

He told me to overtake a vehicle that was on the left moving slowly, which I did.

As we approached the Haynes Park gates, he was on the radio system, shouting and swearing.

There were lots of cars entering Haynes Park as it was around 9:30 am. 

He gave instructions to move the cars to allow my car to exit immediately.

One female sevadar said, “You will have to wait 5 minutes, parji”

“Move those fucking cars NOW” he shouted.

“Great communication skills,” she said to him, but he wasn’t bothered. He was on a mission.

All the cars moved to the side on his instructions to create a clear exit lane for my car between them.

He told me to drive right out in the newly created space, so I did.

He then got out of my car. “You are now off the premises” he said, “don’t come back.”

I turned left and saw the same police officers I had spoken to the previous day.

“I have just been assaulted” I announced. I then filed a report with them before driving to  Bedford police station to file a full detailed report. They also took a photo of my broken glasses.

Haynes Park

 

Comments

[Nancy]

Seriously Brian you are still talking about this? Osho said he apologized and is done with this incident. How come you are so invested in it? Nothing better to write about?

[Brian Hines]

Nancy, as noted in this post, Osho Robbins emailed me the second part of his story today and wanted me to share it on my blog. All the words below the dotted line are from Robbins. So I don’t understand why you seem to think I wrote this post.

[Jesse]

It's hard to sympathize with someone who believes in all this stuff anyway and who has written all these fawning comments about Gurinder and his Supreme Realizations.

Since Osho is quoting Jesus, he should also remember that Jesus had a sevadar who chopped some dudes ear off.

[Jim Sutherland]

Attn. Brother OSHO Robbins from Jim Sutherland:
Osho, I am glad I never made a Nuisance out of my self at the Dera when I had all my problems trying to get my phone and Passport back to be released from Lock Up!

After I “ escaped” with out getting punched , I wasn’t EVER planning to go back there, or to ANY other RSSB Satsang in ANY country after experiencing what I did, and hearing GSD say what he said, as I reported.

But it was YOU, my Chief Antagonizer, who kept making fun of me, and making jokes, about my extreme disappointments , of seeing, hearing and experiencing what I did, on my first Dera Visit with my Wife in Oct, 2017, after being a 30 year RSSB initiate.

So, what goes around, comes back around. I am seeing Karma in Action in your story. Now you might have an Idea how I felt, being made fun of, and made the Joke of Brian’s Church, bombarded with all sorts of nasty comments and jokes, with you taking the lead.

But, if you noticed, I moved on, and quit crying big Puppy Dog tears, looking for sympathy and attention. There is no sympathy here, or at the Dera, for you, me, or any one else.

No doubt in my mind. RSSB has become a full blown Cult under Gurinder Singh Dhillon’s Dictatorship.

Osho, do your self a big favor. Take Jessie’s advice, and move on!!! There is nothing left at RSSB for you, except some more Oneness Ass Whoopin, if you keep showing up looking for Gurinder’s sympathy.

From all I have read here, since you have been crying, the only sympathy you received has been from Brain, Arjuna and Manjit, with each different opinions than the other exers and anonymous Satsangis hiding behind their pseudo Avatars.

Eyes forward, stiff upper lip, wipe your tears, buy new glasses, and Soldier on, Brother!

Jim Sutherland
Gone, but never forgotten.

[Osho Robbins]

@Gone but never forgotten
The one and only Jim Sutherland

Hi Jim

Your comments duly noted.
The day 2 account has been posted for completeness.

I seek no sympathy or any outcome. I have simply stated what happened on Saturday, after the previously posted events of the Friday.

No reflection on GSD personally.

This is specifically about the individual sevadars who carried out the attack.

They said “nobody saw anything. Nothing happened here, got it guys?”
Thinking that because nobody witnessed the punch except this closely knit group of individuals, nobody will know.

They underestimate the power of truth and the power of the written word.

What I cannot understand is

If they have no interest in the RSSB teachings, then why continue as a sevadar.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho.
We get it. Shit happens. And it's bothering you still, hence the even more detailed accounts.

What exactly, in 100 words or less, is the take-away?

We believe you because we know this is how some people behave the world over. And even much worse than this. They didn't follow the rules. Yah, people do that.

Did you file a formal police complaint? Assault? Harrassment? No?

You are probably the most surprised that this happened.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho
You wrote
"If they have no interest in the RSSB teachings, then why continue as a sevadar."

Under fear, high threat, people react in ways they would never otherwise. Your second visit was a second, escalated, threat on top of an already reactive situation. Hence the gang behaviour.

When they said you were banned that was a weak and empty attempt to get control. It was their reaction under a situation they never see.

The phone thing is a big deal to them. You crossed that police tape with impunity. You took away there control. They reacted. First fear, then anger, then reaction "you are banned for life!"

But instead of understanding these folks didn't know what to do with someone pissing on the sacred phone rule, you went back and shit on it.

These sevadars are under pressure and they are not professional security. Then you broke their new rule and when you came back and challenged them. It was a pissing match, Osho. You know this.

And no one wins those.

[Jesse]

"do your self a big favor. Take Jessie’s advice"

My sainthood and realization levels noticed by yet another. I do no advertisement, believe it or not. Speaking the truth is extremely attractive.

Osho, stop going to these radha soami brawls and start realizing truth with me.

[Spence Tepper]

Oops, I apologize, I just re-read the account and saw that you filed a police complaint. That's good Osho. You did the right thing.
I'm sure you didn't want to, and I'm sure it took a lot to take that step. But it adds a minimum standard of decency. Thank you.

[Dungeness]

Since Osho is quoting Jesus, he should also remember that Jesus had a sevadar who chopped some dudes ear off.

Phone-ectomy and a "tune-up" may seem tame but I'm with
Osho. Police report and possible civil action are warranted.

[Jesse]

Osho, I have questions. What happened to your family who you saw? Your story goes from your brother in law getting all stern with these sevadars, and then you just disappearing.

Why didn't your brother in law follow you wherever you were going? Or why when they took you away did he not contact police or create a scene? Sounds like he came up to the scene, talked some crap to these guys who were hassling you, then just left you alone to get beat up while he went to "satsang."

Get a new family, man. The one you have sounds weak.

[SP]

Osho

It's been like a month right? No action taken by the UK police? I hope the Magnificent Seven (since you seem to like referring to movies) haven't bamboozled the UK police force. You never know these Men in White might use their very own Neuralyzer to erase every incriminating bit.

Any official response from Dera Management? I recollect you telling me you are in the process of writing to them too.

Any plans to sell the copyrights? I foresee cash registers ringing on the release of The Lone Ranger vs The Magnificent Seven.

[Osho Robbins]

“My sainthood and realization levels noticed by yet another. I do no advertisement, believe it or not. Speaking the truth is extremely attractive.“. - Sant Baba Hazur Puran Dhani Jesse Ji New York Valli

I am not sure where you are from so I just made up NY but please replace with actual city.

I think you should open up a dera right across the road from Haynes Park and call it “The highest science of The atman institute”
And foot note it with
“We guarantee no violence will be used if you break our rules. As we don’t have any. “
And finally state the main marketing benefit
“Sant Baba Jesse Ji will personally come at the time of your death and take you straight to Sach Khand in his golden winged horse. You will receive your own detached 7 bedroom mansion with a swimming pool. And a new Mercedes S320 Limousine. However you have to meditate for 30 minutes every day without fail”

You will get flocks and flocks of people

If you need help with security call me

[Osho Robbins]

@Hazur Jesse Singh Ji
Good point.
I never made that clear.
So I walked off towards the exit. So it was reasonable to assume that the episode was over.
They must have spoken to them for a short while then carried on to the satsang tent. There was no reason to think that anything further would develop.
If they suspected or even if I did, they would have accompanied me to my car and even to the Haynes park gate.

However it was unreasonable to think they were going to take further action when I had already agreed to leave.

That is why it was an unprovoked act of bullying and clearly premeditated.

Thank you for asking as others too may be confused.

[Osho Robbins]

Since Osho is quoting Jesus, he should also remember that Jesus had a sevadar who chopped some dudes ear off.

Yea that was Simon Peter the rock he built his church on.
Jesus restored the centurion’s ear and told Simon
“Those who live by the sword perish by the sword”

Clearly the sevadars that dealt with me believe in violence.

[Osho Robbins]

“But instead of understanding these folks didn't know what to do with someone pissing on the sacred phone rule, you went back and shit on it.”
- Spence

Standard procedure is to delete the file and get them to deposit the phone until end of satsang.
However in my case they did not follow standard procedure.
They need rules and accountability above them, not free reign to handle it as they are fit.
Delegation is great but accountability is also needed.

[grapelove]

You're a Narcissist Osho and this time someone took umbridge.

[Osho Robbins]

“We get it. Shit happens. And it's bothering you still, hence the even more detailed accounts.

What exactly, in 100 words or less, is the take-away?“. - Spence Tepper

It’s not bothering me at all. However I have filed the full information for completeness.

I will now be writing officially to the Dera at both Haynes and Head office for their response.

I don’t care how they handle this, it’s their business to handle it as they choose.

I have not mentioned names on the public posting as my motivation was not to incite the situation further. At the same time I wanted to report exactly what happened, anyone with any intelligence can see this is all true because I don’t have any reason to make this up. I don’t attach any blame either. They are just people.

[Solomon]

We all agree that Osho made the mistake of recording the satsang using his phone and broke "satsang rules"

HOWEVER, Does that allow any of the sevadars to react and punish him using "gangster style assaults" ?

If this was a rock concert and the bouncers reacted in similar way it could very well be understood.

Haynes Park is often referred to as the Dera of UK - and Babaji spends much time with the sevadars when he visits...so its surprising to have such degrading behaviour from the sevadars - are they not told during briefings to treat the sangat - the guests of the Master, with love and respect...

[s*]

Personaly I think and know that some sewadars are ,can be terrible..
I know that from Dera in earlier times..
I wrote everything to Babaji and when I came back there it was much better.
I think these sewadars needs to learn a big lesson!!
It would be good if Babaji took them for soem BIG lesson in Humbleness!!

[Akshiii]

Brother i could have believed you before,
But this incident happened in front of me, the was never hit or anything like that. His phone was taken away because it is clearly stated that you can't take your phone or camera and when you do something like that you break the rule on someone's personal property. Of course everyone is allowed if they want to come but it it still personal property.
Tell me something you go to someone's house. Will you do anything you feel like, even if they clearly tell you not to do it. And if you do they are entitled to stop you and tell you to go away.
I repeat he wasn't beaten or punched. Infact he complained to the cop that his phone was taken away and the cop responded same that if you into someone's property you have follow their rule.

[Arjuna]

# Osho

Told you before - right uppercut to the one who punched you.
For me it would have been a natural reaction. More a straight left jab to the jaw

Laters brother . Eyes Front

[Nick GB]

Osho
Seems like you are trying to prove/demonstrate what you already know;
That RSSB is monstrously over organised and is now a huge corporate entity that has lost intimacy/informality and is prey to abuses simply due to the sheer numbers of people drifting around in the organisation.
Why take a phone in in the first place? Given their security paranoia this was always going to be incendiary.
Doesn't excuse the alleged behavior (which warrants police investigation) but is understandable even inevitable when something reaches the level of bureaucracy, logistics and stresses demanded of managing those sheer numbers.
Along with those who are motivated by love and service you are always going to get bravado males on security duty. Without the necessary training and social skills you end up with it all deteriorating to the levels you experienced with one of them sounding like a wannabe SS Officer!
Seriously though you push the envelope and you are going to get pushed back! What else can you honestly expect?
Krishnamurti told the story of the Devil out for a walk with a friend. They see a man on the road ahead bend down and pick something up. "What is it?" asked the Devil's friend. "A piece of the truth'" said the Devil.
"Aren't you worried?'" said the Devil's friend.
"Not at all' said the Devil, "I am going to let him organise it!'".

[Um]

Osho, the incident you have described in detail, makes me think of something , we can read about now and then in the papers namely that someone, passing the custom control and being asked, what is in that violin box, answers jokingly, "a stengun".

In all the reported cases, these people were arrested, and banned for years from airport, airline etc.

Those who deal with these issue are not at all interested in the motivation, however innocent.
For THEM security is a deadly serious matter not to be joked with.

[SP]

Osho

So you think naming publicly (even in here) would incite the situation further?

Go ahead do it. What will it be then? An army of supporters turn up at Haynes to land upper cuts and what ever else on these Sevadars
and trigger a chain reaction huh?

Or is the reason for not naming self preservation?

I hope you do realise that

- Apart from somebody promoting a narrative in here and words expressing fake sympathy there is nothing more for you on this and

- that the posters in here (including myself) and even the owner of this site are an inconsequential lot.

Good luck to you in your efforts pursuing the matter the right way - with the police and Dera Management. I hope something good comes out.

The publicity stunt was avoidable imo. Unless you were involuntarily seeking it (could it be HPD?) . Brian has said it was you who wanted part 2 published, you knowing that most in here were'nt waiting to hear more about the incident..

[Osho Robbins]

@akshiii
Thank you for confirming that it happened in front of you. Clearly you are referring to Friday, when my phone was taken from me against my permission.

You are Absolutely correct in saying that so called the police. You are also correct in saying that I was not punched in the face.
Because if you read the above, I have never said I was punched in the face on Friday. That happened on Saturday and I am pretty sure you were not there.

You are most likely the guy who originally asked me to leave the tent after dropping my phone, or one of the few sevadars who may have seen my phone being taken and my conversation with sevadar #2 when I asked for my phone back.

You could also be the sevadar who walked with me to the lost and found office.

You state that if I break someone’s rules in their house. They can tell me to leave.
Absolutely I agree.
But go read what I wrote.

I said I wanted to leave. They would not let me because they would not return my phone.
That is illegal.
It is called theft.
I asked for my phone back and they refused. Tell me if you think that is reasonable.

I was NOT punched on Friday. That was Saturday. But at least your comment confirms that my phone was taken away without my permission and sevadar #2 refused to return it to me. You obviously know the identity of sevadar #2.

Clearly you were not there when the police accompanied me to the lost and found office. We went inside the office and the police told the sevadars there that the phone must be returned immediately because it is illegal to keep hold of my phone.

The police did not say that since I broke the rules, it was okay to take my phone as you seem to think. Not sure where you got that idea from but it’s wrong.

[Um]

Well SP, if the Dera management for reasons of their own would shows mercy on him, and order the management in Haynes and the sevadars there, to leave him alone, that would be his only chance for an [positive] end to this whole affair.

That would not mean they agree with him, it would be just a matter of policy.

After the war, many an german that otherwise would have been convicted, was given the posibility to work in the USA by the government ...Von Braun being one of the most known.

Otherwise it will follow him the rest of his life.

Sardar Bahadur is the only one I know of that did it in not demanding a student to be found that had stolen something and showed that kind of mercy.

The question is whether Osho would appreciate such an move and benefit from it.

[Nancy]

This topic is getting old. Osho you got punched but do not want to do anything about it. In fact you have apologized multiple times for getting in the incident in the first place. Yet you keep telling your story to Brian wanting him to publish it. And Brian on the other hand keeps writing about the same thing over and over. All seeking attention is what it Looks like to me. This blog gets boring without some sort of RSSB scandal.
Grow up guys. Spend your time in other more productive things( Like helping the poor and sick.)

[Osho Robbins]

@um
I was no security risk

A person with a phone is not a security risk. I am not about to blow up Haynes park because I have a 5 min recording of the English speaker on my phone.

Please explain how that makes me a security risk.

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
I initially just made a few comments.
Brian already had a lot of information and I asked him to keep it confidential until I was ready to write it up.
He did exactly that and kept the information confidential until I was ready to write it up.
He knows names etc as I emailed him On the Friday evening with quite a lot of details.
I also emailed him at 10.33am on the Saturday when I was at the police station about to file the police report.

I am not taking legal action. I will let the RSSB internal management handle it.

My objective was to make it known what had happened. I am pretty sure the sevadars will have told lies to cover up but if RSSB choose to do an internal investigation they will discover lots of corruption

[Jesse]

Ok Osho. Thank you too for recognizing my sainthood. I probably will be starting my own ashram soon. Stay tuned.

But back to the bloody violent clashes of Haynes Park. Your bro in law saw the sevadars relax for a second and decided he thought things were ok and they'd let you leave.

After knowing what you'd already gone through previously he shouldn't have done that. And if you ever decide to break your promise and go back again, don't go alone and don't let them separate you from your companions.

[Um]

Osho, please do read my message again.

You want me to explain something I didn't write, nor suggested nor intended.?!

I

[j]

"I will now be writing officially to the Dera at both Haynes and Head office for their response. I don’t care how they handle this, it’s their business to handle it as they choose."

Excuse me, but that is absolutely the wrong approach to take in this matter. It's like writing a letter to the bishop about your child being molested by a priest. That's something Catholics did for decades, and as we all know that course of action resulted in nothing. Anyone who's assaulted needs to contact civil authorities and have them deal with it. An assault isn't the business of the assaulter to "handle as they choose."

[Osho Robbins]

@Nancy
This is the full details of day2.
Not previously been given.

The purpose is to accurately portray the events of both days.

Not to get attention or to seek a resolution here.

It’s the fact that this happened in a spiritual setting that teaches non violence that makes it significant.

It’s up to RSSB to review their procedures if they don’t want a repeat of this incident.

If they are happy for it to occur again then no changes are required.

I will cooperate with them if they want any details.
I will be writing to the relevant people shortly. Just been busy over the last few weeks.

If this had happened to someone else perhaps nobody would have known.

But with me clearly it was not going to remain a secret.

[Osho Robbins]

@um
I was responding to your comment:

“For THEM security is a deadly serious matter not to be joked with.”

So I was just stating that I was not a security risk.

Also I really don’t understand why recording are not available.

After all there are hundreds of them already on YouTube, so they may as well release them officially and sell them on CDs.

Perhaps it might clear up a lot of the misunderstandings

[Joseph Fatman]

Dear "J"

Finally, the voice of reason.

[Um]

Osho,

As for THEM, the custom officials, the rules are important and NOT what the traveler has in mind, so for the sevadars, the rules are also important and not what visitors have in mind.

[Osho Robbins]

@j
I am not here to reform RSSB or their sevadars.
I have trouble reforming myself.

Kirpal Singh was fond of quoting swami Ram Tirath who wrote

“Reformers Wanted
- Not of others
- but of themselves”

Why should I be concerned about reforming others? It’s enough that I have brought this incident to the attention of those who are concerned.

I also don’t care to be reinstated
Or to allowed to attend satsang.

It was no big deal when I used to go, just as it was no big deal when I was a speaker.

It was all entertainment
As was this incident.

A mild punch is not a big deal.
It’s just a big deal that it was
Unprovoked and premeditated.

And sevadar #2 telling me he is the dangerous one, not the guy who punched me. It’s almost like he loved bullying a defenceless satsangi.

Maybe one day Arjuna will go there and the outcome will be very different.

[Um]

and OSho ….
>>Also I really don’t understand why recording are not available.

After all there are hundreds of them already on YouTube, so they may as well release them officially and sell them on CDs.

Perhaps it might clear up a lot of the misunderstandings <<

They, those in Haynes park, owe you nothing, no explanation, nothing.

It is THEIR world, it is not a shop, hotel, sportclub, school or whatever …
people are neither invited, or guest, or customer
they have NO rights whatsoever.

People talk about MY Master etc as if there is anything that belongs to them … it doesn't.

They can do whatever they like as they do not bind themselves to anything or anybody.

Remember the words of his uncle … you people are poor beggars.
Meaning, that if you want something from another person, than you have to act according their wishes, you cannot order it from them or tell them how to be a giver.

It is all that simple Osho .. you don't matter ,,, you cannot force them to act according your wishes.

You can go to the police, possible they will fine these persons, and after that life will go on an business as usual.

[Jesse]

I think J is probably correct that reporting this to RS management makes no sense. Osho has a responsibility to report this to the police. Violent criminals can't just be ignored.

[Jesse]

"It’s almost like he loved bullying a defenceless satsangi."

At the risk of going against the 9/11 topic adhesion rule, I have to point out that you've stated you're not a satsangi many times Osho.

It's not a gang. Getting punched in the face is not how initiation works.

[Nancy]

Osho you say
“This is the full details of day2.
Not previously been given.”

Sorry but these details have been repeated again and again. You have mentioned the punching, the six sevadars, the glasses breaking all of that multiple times.

“The purpose is to accurately portray the events of both days.”
Have you noticed you are the only one who is telling the story of what happened On both days? Not one of the 6 sevadars are giving their account. So everything that has been said about this has come from you. How much more accurate (according to you) can that be?

“Not to get attention or to seek a resolution here.”
You say that yet you keep repeating again and again. So what exactly are you trying to achieve?
Ever heard of letting go and moving on?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You write
"Remember the words of his uncle … you people are poor beggars."

I believe you may have remembered this incorrectly. We are all members of the same creation.

He said "We are all beggars" and as such we should treat each other kindly.

You write
"They can do whatever they like as they do not bind themselves to anything or anybody."

This is also false. True Saints are always there for their initiates. They are forever bound to them, merge with them, carry them inside themselves and are inside each disciple.

This is true regardless of the behavior of the disciple.

Nothing Osho did warranted the behavior of the Sevadars.

But their entitled behavior is right in line with the philosophy you have cited.

That may be the culture today of RSSB, entitled, inflexible, unapologetic and superior in ego. They met their equal in Osho. Hence the pissing contest.

But it isn't what Maharaj taught. It's no longer Sant Mat.

All Saints are humble and accommodating.

If you will re-read Osho's account you will see it became a pissing match of egos. It didn't help Osho at all.

Let me script for you an alternative way of handling this...

"I'm sorry Osho, but we have a rule that no pictures or recordings are too be made. I'd love to take pictures and recordings of Baba Ji and the speakers all day long, too. I know it is because this is important to you. But our Master wishes otherwise. He wants us to be in the moment and in the atmosphere, and to commune with his Sangat, not a rock star on stage facing a sea of cell phones. This is His style and it is his rule. So, please brother, submit your phone, or you are most welcome to keep your phone and to leave, go home and enjoy his company within, in any way you like. Please don't take this personally. Everyone loves him and I have to give this speech a lot, especially to the younger members. They are attached to their cell phones. But that is just one more attachment we will have to leave behind. Why not practice starting now? There is no harm and it will only be to your benefit to live without all the worldly toys for a little while. "

Had anyone taken the time to lovingly explain, I am sure Osho, despite his personal desires, would have respectesd these rules.

It only takes a little gentle attention. As an equal. As a brother.

But as you can see, the RSSB culture today is quite different.

[Addy]

Hi Oshi,
Eventually you did sum up the full story as it happened..I know it was shocking to be treated badly by some sevadars in a very wild manner, which really reflects their understanding of the spiritual path..It is no more than a bossy, egoistic move just to prove their superiority of being obedient sevadars..I, being an ex-sevadar myself totally disagree with many rules and regulations which i found them to make an isuue of..The best thing to do is to call it quits and move on..I'm sure with a dedicated will of wanting to know who you really are, just persue into the pointings of oneness by different masters on you tube, which is much easier and hassle free..Forgive & forget all that happened and learn from these experiences that the outer world is never perfect but the witness that you are remains as it is..Addy

[Osho Robbins]

@ Sant baba Jesse huzur puran dhani ji

I used to give talks. I have been initiated and most of my comments on here are pro-RSSB well to be more accurate
Pro GSD because I am not too keen on the organisation side of RSSB.

So all that qualifies me as a Satsangi.

My guru, Charan Singh might come at my death along with Thakar, Darshan, dr harbhajan, swami divyanand, Ajaib,
To take my soul to Sach khand.
Oh , I almost forgot, also Sant Hazur Baba Jesse Ji will also come even though I didn’t meditate the full 30 mins.

It should be quite a party.

And when I get to Sach Khand, who is going to be the security there?

I just hope it’s not the same magnificent seven who get promoted to Sach khand because of their exceptional level of seva in Haynes Park.

What is the definition of a satsangi?

When the guru grabs your arm, he never lets go.

When the magnificent seven catch you with a mobile phone, they punch you in the face. It’s their own personal initiation

[SP]

He knows names etc as I emailed him On the Friday evening with quite a lot of details.
I also emailed him at 10.33am on the Saturday when I was at the police station about to file the police report.

Updating Brian - following orders from him to let him know the status of a job tasked?

[SP]

I think J is probably correct that reporting this to RS management makes no sense. Osho has a responsibility to report this to the police. Violent criminals can't just be ignored.

Jesse

Osho claims he has reported the matter to the police - at 10:30 am that Saturday he was with the cops to file his report about a mild punch and simultaneously updating Brian (LOL). I bet he doesn't mind sharing the same in here.

But he doesn't want to take legal action. Maybe in the UK he has this option even after filing a police complaint. Maybe he knows that his case is likely to be thrown out by the courts. Or could be that the UK is no better and he expects his case to drag on the next 20-30 years.

Volumes written about the incident but silence on why he doesn't want to take legal action.

[SP]

Nancy,

What's this? Don't you get it - the agenda here is to keep peddling a narrative . The sensationalizing of the two threads (part 1 and 2) is hard to miss and have been most popular from the site's perspective.

In ways it's we all who are contributing. Best would have been that nobody reacted. The whimper would have disappeared without a fuss.

[Di]

SSDD (same stuff different day)!

By the way, did anyone see this? Did someone request SEBI to change its directive?

Sebi refuses to modify direction to recall loans from Singh brothers, others in Religare case - Times of India
https://m.timesofindia.com/business/india-business/sebi-refuses-to-modify-direction-to-recall-loans-from-singh-brothers-others-in-religare-case/amp_articleshow/71085717.cms

[SP]

I used to give talks. I have been initiated and most of my comments on here are pro-RSSB well to be more accurate
Pro GSD because I am not too keen on the organisation side of RSSB.

So all that qualifies me as a Satsangi.

Osho,

How many years into RSSB? Claim you are an old timer. Ever read the below

"One does not become a satsangi simply by being initiated. One must mould his life in accordance with the principles of satsang. Every thought, speech and action must conform to them. Actions speak louder than words. Thoughts are even more potent. A satsangi’s daily conduct must bear the hallmark of excellence and must reveal that he is the follower of a true Master."
Maharaj Jagat Singh, The Science of the Soul

So buddy I doesn't matter what you think of yourself. From the Masters perspective you don't look good at all and this ongoing tamasha probably makes you look worse.

[SP]

The magnificent seven

Charan Singh, Thakar, Darshan, dr harbhajan, swami divyanand, Ajaib, and our very own Sant Hazur Baba Jesse Ji

[Osho Robbins]

@Nancy
I wrote
““This is the full details of day2.
Not previously been given.”
You said

Sorry but these details have been repeated again and again. You have mentioned the punching, the six sevadars, the glasses breaking all of that multiple times.”

There is a huge difference between mentioning a few details and giving a full and detailed report.

The initial post was made by Brian collating a few of my comments
That post alone had 225 comments.
The account of day one had 130.
And 45 so far here.
Makes over 400 comments in total.
Clearly, others are interested in the topic, so drop the complaining and move on. Take your own advice and let go.

And you say it’s getting boring , and you want to hear about a new scandal.

Well this is not being written specifically to satisfy your appetite for a new scandal. That’s the third comment you have made on the topic while others are engaging with the topic of the blog.

Clearly you need to let go, and stop repeating yourself as your comments are getting boring now.

Find something more useful to do with your life.

And just for your information, obviously the seven sevadars will lie. They already have. I witnessed it first hand.

It might not be a big deal to you, but clearly it’s not standard procedure to assault members of the sangat. Unless of course it is, and this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Perhaps others don’t publicise it.

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
I was naturally shocked that things could go so far. I decided this needs to be made known. Hence the emails to Brian.

It’s not about a job being tasked. It’s about stating what had happened so others are aware.

Clearly GSD was aware that an incident had happened by the following Sunday but most likely it was the version from the sevadars involved.
That will be mostly because of the article posted on churchless, because clearly the sevadars are not going to volunteer the information.
After all they said to each other “nobody saw anything, nothing happened. Got it guys?”
Obviously they know that what they had just done (physical assault totally unprovoked) was not acceptable behaviour to GSD. They knew they were not about to get medals.

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
You quoted from a book:
“One does not become a satsangi simply by being initiated. One must mould his life in accordance with the principles of satsang. Every thought, speech and action must conform to them. Actions speak louder than words. Thoughts are even more potent. A satsangi’s daily conduct must bear the hallmark of excellence and must reveal that he is the follower of a true Master."

Cool.

So now explain how seven sevadars can attack one defenceless guy, completely unprovoked, who is on his way towards the exit of Haynes.

Actions speak louder than words.

Tell me: are these the principles of satsangi?
Is this the correct behaviour that bears the hallmark of excellence and shows by example what amazing humans the path produces?

So from the point of view of the master, do the actions of these sevadars make the master feel proud?

SP clearly you need a reality check

You excuse those extreme actions and you question me just calling myself a satsangi?

Not sure what planet you come from, but it’s not earth

[Ram Singh]

Dear brother Osho: Sorry to hear about the attack on your person. Kal fights tooth and nail for every Soul. When you were Initiated by Charan Singh -- under the direction of Sat Nam (Sat Purush)-- Kal lost! But He also knows that you will bring many to the path. Master loves and protects ALL his children. The REAL Master is inside and so is the TRUE Satsang -- The Shabad that is without beginning or end.

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
From your comments you clearly seem to know a lot of information about reasons and motivations, when you were not even there and at best you can have unfounded opinions.

Might be better for you to spend your time in meditation especially as your guru forbids you to comment on here

And you clearly have ignored that advice choosing instead to comment on matters you have no awareness of.

The quality of your comments show that you are very confused.

For instance you tell Nancy that the best policy is not to comment, yet if you count your own comments, you have 5 comments in the last 10, why not follow your own advice instead of preaching to Nancy and others

[Chris]

Thank you Mr. Robbins for the second part of your detailed description of your experience at Haynes. I was interested to read it and convinced of its credibility.

Hopefully the publication of it here will influence those in charge of seva at Haynes Park and maybe it might have a positive influence on the future behaviour of sevadars there.
If so, the irony will be that by describing so publically what you experienced, you (and Brian Hines for hosting it) will have performed a very useful service (seva) to the RSSB UK sangat. ;-)

The response of 'associates of truth' (satsangis) trying to criticise you, silence you, and discredit you has also been revealing. Hopefully, if they are truly searching for truth and greater self-awareness they may also have learnt something about themselves and so will have been served.

I.e. you are performing great seva!! :-)

.. .. .. .. .. .. ..

Finally, to Akshiii one of the servants of the sangat (sevadars) involved, who wrote about rules on someone's personal property:
“Of course everyone is allowed if they want to come but it is still personal property.
Tell me something: you go to someone's house. Will you do anything you feel like, even if they clearly tell you not to do it? And if you do, they are entitled to stop you and tell you to go away. if you go into someone's property you have follow their rules.”

This I regard as a useful example of the kind of self-justifying self-delusion that has created the problem and which needs to be corrected.
It doesn't look like honest introspection is being applied here.
Instead it looks like excuses and fallacious, self-justifying logic are being employed.

Osho Robbins is a member of the Beas sangat in England as he is an initiate of Charan Singh. He and his extended family are members of the sangat. Therefore Haynes Park IS his own 'house', 'home' and 'property', as it was bought by, is maintained by and belongs to the sangat of which he and his family are long-term members. So he is not going to “someone elses's home” but to his own!!

Plus you Akshiii do not appear to me to be responding accurately to what he has described occurred. He wrote that he tried to leave but was prevented on two consecutive days. So not only did you 'sevadars' prevent a person from leaving his 'own home', you collectively did that by breaking the law of the land with illegal violence to administer an illegal 'punishment' compounded with unethical intimidation and threats. Can you see how by ignoring all that, what you have written appears to be a self-protecting, self-justifying reply that employs a dishonest approach?

If anyone wants to experience ultimate Truth, they will have to reconfigure themselves to become truthful in small things, in order to be fit to come within the orbit of ultimate Truth.

In the hymns of Guru Amar Das, he had laid great emphasis on truthful living when teaching his followers:

gather Truth, speak Truth; apply the Touch-stone of Truth.
(jin sach paiai sach vakaaneh sach kasvatee laavani-aa) p.113

The fourth state, the highest, a gurmukh obtains practicing Truth and only Truth.
(cha-uthee pa-orhee gurmukh oochee sacho sach kamaavani-aa.) p. 113

The practice of Truth is the essence of Shabd.
(sach karnee sabad hai saar) p.114

The True Lord is pleased with Truth, and only Truth.
(sachaa sacho sach pateejai) p.114

[Pema Tej]

Hi Osho,

Please give us an update on the response you get from the Dera and/or Haynes Park management. If you do receive one.
Hopefully, you will be able to share this as another blog for Brian to share on this website.
A good person to write to at the Dera might be Wayne Caravella, as he is in charge of foreign relations in Hostel 6 (if I'm not mistaken), and he seems to have more access to Baba-Ji.

[slave_of_GSD]

Q: Name the Kalyug ka Satyavadi Raja (King) Harishchandra -

Ans: Osho Robbins!!!!

Those who aren't aware - King Harishchandra is an epitome of truth and virtue in ancient Indian history.

[SP]

Clearly GSD was aware that an incident had happened by the following Sunday but most likely it was the version from the sevadars involved.

Osho,

An old timer SATSANGI reducing GIHF , who is supposedly all knowing, to an ordinary human who has to rely on some Sevadars version. Wow.

"That will be mostly because of the article posted on churchless"

I might just die laughing!!!!!

[SP]

Slave,

What's the discount factor to be applied to the Q&A above? 🤔

[Jesse]

"Obviously they know that what they had just done (physical assault totally unprovoked) was not acceptable behaviour to GSD. They knew they were not about to get medals."

You don't know that.

Gurinder strokes your ego in front of crowds so you give him the benefit of the doubt, but your apologetic view of him doesn't match with what many who are closer to him have reported. You're easily manipulated by praise it seems. Most of us are.

Gurinder is reported to have himself made very sexual comments about women in public, to have thrown authors manuscripts on the floor in private fits of rage, and as we can reasonably accept now, he has immeasurable criminal greed. There's absolutely no reason to believe your view that he's divine and against violence. The information available says the opposite of that.

If he gave a damn about you or anyone else, RSSB would have been in contact with you long ago to try resolving the issue. He likely has met those "sevadars" personally to make a game plan and no part of it includes Gurinder's compassionate resolution to end conflicts. He wants the org to keep bringing in huge amounts of cash.

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
You wrote
“An old timer SATSANGI reducing GIHF , who is supposedly all knowing, to an ordinary human who has to rely on some Sevadars version. Wow.”

The operative word here is supposedly.

Do YOU believe a master is “all knowing” in some literal sense?

Because if you do, go tell Gurinder because he doesn’t claim any such powers.

Those are delusional ideas and GSD is actively removing them if anyone listens to him.

[Arjuna]

@ osho

Why did you go there if you are not a follower??

I had a think about this and thought that I initially felt sorry for you- however with hindsight perhaps it was a God send that you got wacked. What are you really trying to prove by going there ??? Just answer that one question please.

By going on and on you are losing credibility- the ones who harassed you. You ain't even an afterthought to them.

Jesse is right if they gave a shot about you they would have contacted you.

Seriously mate you had a chance to hit back to defend your self but you didnt. The fact that you did not get knocked out proves to me that they punch like girls in frocks. You had your chance ...

Right must make supper said my Penny's worth.

[Osho Robbins]

@sant Jesse ji
You are right. I don’t know for sure.
However the impression I get is that he would not be happy with such an episode as what happened to me.

It’s also not good for publicity.

It was not a very intelligent move to create such a fuss over a phone and especially the events of the Saturday , because clearly I was going to publicise
It

[Jesse]

"Those are delusional ideas and GSD is actively removing them if anyone listens to him."

By selling books that say the exact opposite. Makes a lot of sense.

Nobody can listen to him. As you learned his organization that is fueled by his mauj goes to great lengths to keep his spoken words from reaching the public.

Whatever he says to you he contradicts elsewhere. That's not "actively removing" anything. It's playing two hands of cards at once.

And yes, his business mind may say it's bad publicity for the security to slightly overreact by assaulting and kidnapping attendees, but as you pointed out, none of the satsangis cared. They're fixated on their flesh murthi and assume, no matter what happens, that you are in the wrong and the flesh murthi's kripa was for you to get handled that way.

Their superstitions extend beyond the guru and into his org. As long as they don't care if you're beaten, he doesn't need to care either.

Not that you care about my opinion, but why don't you just stick to more loose home satsangs? I've been to one in the home of a Hindu that was really cool. It seems to be more human scale and intimate and in discussions there was more room for real questions as well.

[Osho Robbins]

@Arjuna
You asked why I go there.

Well I went a week before the national satsang and that was quite an interesting discussion with GSD.

The two things he said were that nothing is good or bad as they are perceptions of the ego. And he said everything happens in hukam.

And the notion of desirelessness was my question. I go there because I enjoy those open discussions with him.

The national satsang is a bit different as I don’t ask questions as too much hassle.

On the Friday I went with my cousin, there was no specific reason to go.

However in hindsight, it opened my eyes with regard to sevadars.

I was more shocked than anyone with the turn of events.

Friday was in my opinion unreasonable behaviour, the most significant part being that the sevadar had to create a false reason to create the ban and also force the other sevadar to lie.

That crosses a boundary.

It also questions the motivation of the sevadar who lied.

Surely he can see that if he has to lie to keep his seva, that seva is not worth the effort. Better to hand his notice in.

What kind of spiritual path requires you to lie?

What will you gain?

Why listen to your superior sevadar if they have no morals?

If your guru told you to lie, that might be different, but another sevadar?

GSD said that sevadars are not perfect.

I agree, but then why allow them to use their own discretion without any accountability?

It’s like I wrote two years ago in the post about Haynes Park sevadars egos gone wild. I said that this is not seva. It is simply following orders from your superior.

What good is seva if it does not help your spiritual progress and clearly this is not helping

[SP]

GIHF is all knowing. Else your God is no good.

So old timer Satsangi you tell me are the RSSB Gurus (current and past) GIHF?

The widely accepted belief amongst followers of RSSB is well known and probably you know this as well.

[slave_of_GSD]

SP,

Why do you want me to state the obvious.

But since you ask - 100%

Radhasoamiji

[Arjuna]

@ osho

"GSD said that sevadars are not perfect.

I agree, but then why allow them to use their own discretion without any accountability"

You had an answer to that when you got punched . An opportunity to beat the shit out of them. To teach them a lesson.

Perhaps the Real Lord wanted you to do that
.
Maharaj charan used to say that you must live bravely I'm this world and hiss if need be.

They ain't even thinking of you . They are probably thinking let this guy come back for another good pasting. Think bro and stop going on about - it's boring

[Ruby]

Dear Arjuna,
Ummmmm. I believe what Maharaji said was, "I say you cannot strike, but I did not say you could not hiss." So the opportunity to beat the shit out of them would be a definite No, No.
Ruby

[Jen]

"An opportunity to beat the shit out of them." You gotta be joking. Osho was clearly outnumbered!

Thanks for sharing Osho, makes me realise how lucky to be an ex-satsangi and no longer following that cult.

[Arjuna]

@ Ruby Sister

I am trained and designed to do that (beat the shit out of ....)

You can hiss but people ignore the hiss and attack.

[Jesse]

Can't remember who, but either Sawan or Charan Singh allowed the Indian military to install anti aircraft weaponry on dera property, and possibly atop the satsang ghar if my memory is correct. Don't give me this only allowed to hiss b.s. Nobody puts weapons of war in their midst to hiss. It was to kill Pakistanis.

If they allow for the state to use their land to kill, surely there is no rule against personal self defense. Osho had every right to fight. But against 6 guys it would have been a bad idea, even if he were trained in fighting.

[Arjuna]

@ jen

How are you mother? I would have taken them all apart.

Easy peasy. I'm 6.4 and 18 stone of muscle and not bragging Trust your son

X

[Ruby]

Dear Arjuna,
Your choice and consequences. Just be careful with those "buts". At times they can really get you.
Ruby

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
You say that master know everything.

Well in that case can you explain why
Treasure beyond measure was published.

In it are countless events showing masters are not all knowing.

Charan Singh did not know he was the next master.

Charan Singh in a London restaurant about to eat egg fried rice not realising g it had eggs in it.

All knowing is a myth.

If GSD knew he would have put a stop to it immediately

[Jen]

Hi Arjuna,

It would be great to have you around as a body guard :)

[Mr. Curious]

Hi Osho,

Re: "If GSD knew he would have put a stop to it immediately"

How do you know that? You don't know him at all. You just had a few brief conversations with him about pseudo-spiritual BS like Oneness while he was on a dais and your were on the floor. That right there illustrates the duality and class structures in place at the dera. The power tripping you witnessed does not happen as a fluke, that shit starts at the top.

So why the worshipful, fawning attitude towards GSD?

In any case, I found out that you weren't banned b/c of bringing in the phone. That was just their excuse to take action. GSD and his people caught wind that you are a frequent visitor of this blog and that got you put on the blacklist.

I'd tell you my source, but it's not even worth it to get mixed up in this nonsense. Time to get woke Osho!

[Hardeepsingh]

On the subject of "all knowing"...

We ALL are "all knowing" (maybe we haven't realised it).

E.g. We KNOW something objectively and for something we don't know, we also KNOW that we don't know.

Another point: we are that 'knowing awareness' which is One. In One, there is no other but Oneness (appearances, duality in Oneness is the Lila). Therefore realising oneself as Oneness is all-knowing, complete in itself.

[SP]

Osho,

Read carefully - I said GIHF is all knowing!!!!

Do you get the difference?

And repeating myself

So old timer Satsangi you tell me are the RSSB Gurus also referred to as Masters (current and past) GIHF?

The widely accepted belief amongst followers of RSSB is well known and probably you know this as well.

[SP]

Osho: Response to your posts of September 12, 10:14 pm and 10:40pm

You sure my response was indeed "cool". Looks more like it stung you.

You say I quoted from a book. Maybe that's what it is for you. For me I quote a Master - my favourite from the RSSB lineage. It's not uncommon that self proclaimed Satsangis miss such differences.

Then,

In here it's about you Osho and your claim of being a satsangi. If and whenever anyone of those seven you encountered make a claim of being a Satsangi they will hear from me.

Yes I will question you calling yourself a Satsangi if you think being initiated, a PAST speaker and having good words for GSD makes you one and since you know nothing about what I excuse and don't, opining is inconsequential. Most other questions thrown in are relevant only if any of the Sevadars claim they are a Satsangi. So won't waste my time until I hear any of those Sevadars claiming he is a Satsangi.

It also doesn't matter where I come from. You are unwelcome there.

Now doesn't life experience tell you there usually is more to what meets the eye. In this instance you missed

- there was an eighth Sevadar too
- one who accompanies GSD on his UK tour
- the one who readied your Saturday package
- the one who kicked ass because the seven could land just one mild blow

All these years of satsangigiri and uff the amount you miss still.

You don't know who my Master is. Just presume a somebody. A somebody who doesn't permit commenting online and requires meditation of his chelas. Keep believing whatever you wish. Maybe it's intellectually stimulating for you. So won't deny you.

In the meanwhile I will keep doing what I do well - Enjoy.

Oh btw if you have ever wondered what SP stands for - it's Sant Paltu. Yes the same fella same you love quoting on your Oneness BS.

My second attempt at putting through a response.

[Priyanshu]

I just want to say one thing. All the youtube links he has given and the thing he is talking about that many satsangs are there on youtube, my friend they have been recorded by the officials. And in past many attacks have been planned on Babaji. So the authorities need to follow some rules. And my dear friend if you don't like him then just don't, why have you taken up a motive of criticizing about one religion or one person or his followers. Go and get a life. If you don't like him, just don't talk about him. Simple. I hope you have much more important work in life. Have a great life pal.

[Osho Robbins]

One more incident

Back in the 1980’s the satsangs each week we’re getting popular.

In the 1960’s all satsangs were tapes of Charan Singh being played and occasionally a 8mm film.

Then Charan Singh said “do live satsangs”

“What do you mean? We cannot sit on the stage like you!” Said the sangat members.

“All you are doing is explaining what the gurbani is saying.” Replied Charan.

So they started giving satsang. Some of the top well known speakers were
Sohan Singh, gurchetan Singh, Harjit Singh, Flora, Lakha,
Some of them used to give satsang in one centre and then drive to the next one to give another satsang.

Anyway, it became normal practice to record those satsangs. Some of them were great satsangs. So audios were available to order for the following Sunday.
In my mind that was seva. Something the sangat wanted.
Anyway, from audio to video, the graduation was inevitable.
Now videos were being made. Some relished it. It was great for the ego.
Your satsang on video for others to listen to at any time.
I remember Harjit Singh asking “what is this for?” To the people in charge.
“We are not saints or masters” said Harjit Singh “but just ordinary satsangis”

Anyway word got to Charan Singh. I think some visitor to dera mentioned it.

Immediately he put a stop to it all. No more videos, or audios.

It went from a reluctance to even sit on stage to giving talks and making videos.

Now how come Charan let this continue for maybe 5+ years before putting the brakes on?

The answer is that nobody told him about it. Once they did tell him he stopped it.

Clearly if he knew everything he would also know this and would have stopped it within a week.

Or even better stopped it even before it started, when someone just had the thought he could have said “don’t even think about it”

One of my friends used to say “if only Maharaj ji would just give me the lottery numbers I could just win the lottery once then I will meditate every day”

Thinking that maharaj ji knows all.

Quite often maharaj Charan Singh would hear a question incorrectly and then answer the incorrect question.

Those who believe in all knowing were confused.

But he can only answer what he heard.

Maharaj Charan Singh had treasure beyond measure published brvausevhe wanted to make his position clear. That he was an ordinary man doing his best. Not a Godman.

Kirpal was different. He even wrote a book called godman. He clearly claimed he was the correct successor but even his life shows there is no all knowingness.

I personally met Baba Kehar of Tarn Tarn. His father was pratap Singh of Tarn Tarn
I asked him “what do you know?”
He said “nothing”!
And added “no master knows anything”

He became a personal friend and I would go upstairs to his room and discuss anything I wanted and would tell me the truth
Once a sevadar came with two bottles of water
“Baba ji, this person wants his business to flourish and this one wants a child”
“Put a label on each bottle” said baba kehar “we don’t want a mixup”

I asked him “ now what are you going to do? How will you give that person a child? And make the others persons business a success?”

He laughed, “i am no magician”

“ even my own business of gurudom is not doing that well”

“All I do is pray to god”

I said , “okay, can I listen in”

“Sure” he replied

He closed is eyes and prayed

“Dear God, you do whatever you choose, please ignore my requests”

“What kind of prayer is that?” I asked

“An honest one” he replied

“Who am I to tell god what to do?”

Made sense.

“but what about the bottles of water “ I asked

“Oh..., You mean these? Just ordinary water, but they think it’s now blessed” and he laughed

“If they get a child by pure chance they will think I am a great master and will tell others”

“And if no child comes, then what?”

“Then they too will leave me. They don’t want God, they want a child” he replied.

“Are you not deceiving them” I asked.

“Absolutely I am. It’s what they seek. If I told them the truth they would all run away.
Nobody seeks God, they seek only fulfilment of their desires”

[Osho Robbins]

I have met many gurus. Like the episode above. But I always created a personal connection.
Same with Baba Gurinder.

My first Sant mat guru was Thakar Singh then Datshan Singh. Both knew me personally. I used to create my own poems and read them to Darshan because he too was a poet.

I met Thakar when the bad publicity hit.
He came to the UK. I had already moved it to Darshan many years earlier. But went to meet him anyway.

I asked him about the sexual scandals.

“Mind your own business is what my master used to say” was his reply.

That was the last time I ever met him.

My experience after meeting them all
Was “all knowing” is a myth

The gurbani real meaning of “all knowing” is something different.

[Osho Robbins]

Baba Gurinder intrigues me for one reason.
He tells the truth that nobody wants to hear.
I have been to a few of Rijindar’s satsangs. Nothing there for me.
I have nothing against anyone or for anyone. But his talks are the same old nonsense.
His sangat cannot awaken. Impossible.

Gurinder’s sangat CAN awaken if only they listen closely to what he is really saying
And oh yes, Stop punching me in the face for breaking a rule.
I like breaking rules. So does Baba Gurinder. Rule followers rarely make it.

Go to 12.30 mins into this talk I gave in 2002
That explains why I relate to Baba Gurinder. He is on the same page. And in fact he is the only Sant mat guru who relates to this idea that God is here.

https://youtu.be/7G7jTT8Nak8

One of my very early questions to him was. “My God is Here”
“My God is also here” he replied.

“No,” I answered “the books say he lives in Sach Khand. Fifth region. Far away”

“Burn the books. There are no regions”
Was his reply.

I consider him my friend. We talk the same language. Okay, we’ve had our disagreements, just like friends do.
Certainly we have debated certain points but always respectfully.
I maintained that meditation is not going to work and he says it will.
And now I understand where he is coming from.
“If you are stuck in doing, then I might as well tell you to meditate” is his view.
Because anything else is fake.
So now I agree with his technique.
He is saying “meditate but give away the fruits of meditation”
Become Nishkaam
That means let go
So nothing of any consequence happened at Haynes Park.
It was just God having a bit of fun at my expense
He always does these things. He too likes a bit of entertainment

A ban here
A punch in the face there
It is of no real consequence

Neither of them mean anything

It’s not a matter of letting go

There is not even anything to let go of

[Osho Robbins]

@saint Paltu sahib SP
Since you are Paltu
Please shed some light on the teachings you have our. Will be helpful

You wrote
“In here it's about you Osho and your claim of being a satsangi. ”

Then you go on.

We are talking different things here.

I was initiated by Charan Singh. I am. Satsangi. Conversation over.
I am not talking about being a good satsangi, or a worthy one etc.
By that sane definition those 7 or 8 including the main guy are also all satsangis,
You are talking about a different topic

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
You wrote
“Read carefully - I said GIHF is all knowing!!!!
Do you get the difference?”

My answer: NO. Please explain.
Because you are talking in riddles and I don’t have time to unriddle your comments.

The last person I knew who spoke in riddles ended up in a lunatic asylum where they all talk in riddles and pretend to understand too.

Me? I am just a simple man. Please explain in simple English or don’t bother.

[Osho Robbins]

@SP
You wrote
“It also doesn't matter where I come from. You are unwelcome there”

Sach Khand I presume?
Or Anami or Agam?

Well I don’t want to go there anyway
Because it’s been demolished. Baba Gurinder demolished it back in 2000.
Needed major refurbishment because everyone just meditated all day and did no remedial maintenance work

And since then the only place you can go is called IK Desh

But to go there you have to disappear totally
Good luck with that
God bless
I mean .... IK bless

[Arjuna]

@ Ruby

I used to be on the path - I am walking up with a huge hangover .

My parents died when I was young . I used to pray to this Baba Ji to help my mum and me. Nothing but silence came back. Only more bad things happened. Usually by satsanghis in the community as that's all we knew.

My point is that I dont believe in him anymore and there are no consequences that is only in your cults brain washing . I am glad I escaped and joined a force that helps and protects.

I have no one in this world bar me and a photo of my mum. So be careful before you tell me there will be consequences.

[Osho Robbins]

@Mr Curious
You wrote
“In any case, I found out that you weren't banned b/c of bringing in the phone. That was just their excuse to take action. GSD and his people caught wind that you are a frequent visitor of this blog and that got you put on the blacklist.”

Your source is mistaken.

GSD knows that banning me is extremely simple. I only go there as his invited guest and I only speak on the mic as his invited guest.
Once someone said “turn off his mic”
Referring to me
GSD: “then turn off my mic too”

All GSD has to do is say “please don’t come back to satsang again” and I won’t. Or “please don’t come to the mic again”

Second reason: I make no secret of who I am. My real identity.
(Not the ONENESS type of real, just the name I use on planet earth)
I have videos online showing my face
I have nothing to hide.
GSD and dera management have known for a long time that I comment of churchless. It’s no crime.

[Arjuna]

@ jen

Would love to be your bodyguard. That was a nice thing to say. Have a fear day

[Arjuna]

@ jen

Typo. I Meant have a fearless day.

[Osho Robbins]

@arjuna
You’re going to be a bodyguard
So you were right the first time.
“Have a FEAR day”

[anami]

If I'm reading SP correctly, he seems to be saying he was an 8th sevadar present at Haynes Park who accompanies GSD on his UK tour in a supervisory role and masterminded the rough treatment of Osho.

I'm skeptical, but okay, SP, let's say it's true. From what I've seen, Osho supports GSD and takes criticism here for it all the time. So why was he handled as a threat?

[Mr. Curious]

Thanks for your reply, Osho. On a separate note, I didn't know your first Sant Mat master was Thakar Singh. That was mine as well. What was your impression of him? Did you shift to Darshan because of the sex scandals or was there a different reason?

I wasn't initiated by Thakar until much after the scandals broke, 1996. I stopped practicing around 2008, a few years after he died and handed the baton to Baljit Singh. Baljit Singh had introduced a female co-master named Maa who he claimed had even higher powers than him. Ultimately, she and Baljit had a falling out, split up, and she started cultivating her own initiates, and also successfully took many of his followers. If they were Oneness as they claimed, why the schism?

This stuff is SO fake, glad I'm done with it.

[Arjuna]

@ osho. I have a new title for your punch up.

Battle of the Paneer + no gelatin lol.

[Shakuni]

@Arjuna

Or War of the Paneer Pizza Warriors

Who:

see no E numbers
Hear no E numbers
Speak no E numbers
🤣

[SP]

Osho,

"I was initiated by Charan Singh. I am. Satsangi."

I was initiated by my Master. I am Sant Paltu

Maybe you should switch loyalties once again.

______________________________________________

You say " I was initiated by Charan Singh. I am. Satsangi."

A speaker in a discourse once said "WE DON'T WANT THE MESSAGE BECAUSE WE HAVE OUR OWN IDEA, OUR OWN CONCEPT."

Would you know who this fellow is??

Will save you the trouble. It was YOU!!!!! Pretty cool ya....

It's obvious to all You don't want the message - that from Maharaj Jagat Singhji about who is a satsangi and your concept i- well shit has more value.

Btw the 8th guy you didn't know he existed - initiated by GSD

Have to now attend to my daily spiritual requirement. . You know just like you people are required to do some meditation, we the niwasis of the super supreme desh - Kaand desh, have to commit a kaand everyday.

PS: Kaand in English is scandal.