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September 30, 2019

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Perhaps the biggest reason we turn to the various belief systems that promise or suggest some sort of continuation is the inevitability of death.

What exactly is the problem with death? It is obvious to all that death is inevitable, that it is part of the natural cycle of life. The body at some point, either through getting old, diseased and feeble or through some terrible disease causing a life of suffering can be quite ready to welcome death. Yet this process, this intelligence of the body is usually over-ruled and avoided in favour of hopes of a cure.

Who or what is it that hopes for a cure, that clings to the hope of continuation? It is quite natural for the organism to struggle to stay alive, it is instinctive, but when death is inevitable (for whatever reason) there is still a strong element within us that attempts to deny the unavoidable. Those witnessing the death also hope for a miracle – either medical or divine. Who is the denier, the avoider? If not the body then that leaves only the mental realm to account for this – that means the mind or rather its sub-structure – the self. Again, this is quite natural. The operation of the self is a great survival aid. Through the process of brain-mind-self-memory-thought, the self protective instinct is magnified – and it can and does lead us astray.

It leads us into the complex realm of concepts. Concepts (beliefs, thoughts, ideas and opinions) not being part of the reality that we can touch, see or feel, can be and often are the main sources of the conflicts and sufferings we endure. Yet we do not see this and if we do we ignore it or justify it.

When it comes to the many beliefs that separate us, we have such strong investments in them we would fight, kill and die to defend them. And what are we defending? Simply a series of conditioned thoughts and beliefs that emanate from the uninvited conglomeration of information we call the mind, and as can be see, mind is its contents from which the inevitability of a conceptual self is constructed.

* It is this self, this mental construct that feels itself to be the real me that fears criticism, fears being wrong, fears being dismissed – all of which diminishes the egoistic aspect of the self. The final affront to the self is annihilation – death. *

The only way it can avoid death lies within its own machinations. Having created the mental construct – my 'self' – it can do no other but to invent a belief system or series of beliefs to pacify or deny the reality of not existing. The body at some point will accept the reality of not being, but the self will employ any means to survive.

Brian
You are not alone in this feeling.
I have had this fear since I was a child.
The RSSB solution, eternal life with God, was a great bait, but turned out to be another of life's empty promises.

My most fearful time is during the night, when I wake up to go to the toilet. I go back to bed and ponder: Shit, I’m gonna die.
I try to temper this with my belief in God, though it’s more a belief in my higher power as I’m an addict. Not a religious thing at all.
“ Enjoy what you can while you can” as the saying goes.

Could life and death be synonyms, I wonder.

Death of body or laying off clothes of consciouness may not cease the existence of consciousness but its merely loss of hard disc and other tools. Its continuous.

Therefore:
Its always good to enjoy life without fear. We ought to be Humanly and in love with His creation at least if not Him. That may help in post life period as also during last moments. Good acts and a humble life always pays, now or / abd then.

Science has no answers on death of body as for it the body and consciousness are inseparable and death finishes both as one.

Brian since your blogpost speaks of fear of death I will give you my perspective. As a Child like you or Michael mentioned I too was very fearful of death. I clearly remember in the 80s we were struck by a major earthquake and as the ground shook I was livid. I recall looking at my mother(one who is quite spiritual) and her telling me (as the ground was shaking) “what are you scared of? Why be scared of death?” And I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe that someone wouldn’t be scared to die. How is that even possible I thought.
Fast forward to 35 years later and 25 years of sant mat meditation later and today I can say I no longer fear my own death. I may not look forward to it like some people I know but I don’t fear it. I don’t know where along the way this happened but I am certain that that’s what spiritual work does...it slowly cleans the vessel.
Good day

Death, Shmeth.

"I don't like death.
It's been done."
Comedian George Burns

"Death of body or laying off clothes of consciouness may not cease the existence of consciousness but its merely loss of hard disc and other tools. Its continuous. "

Go take the hard disk out of your computer. Microwave it. Surround it with really high power magnets. Smash it with a hammer into tiny little pieces, and then set it one fire. See if you can retrieve any data.

"Science has no answers on death of body"

Neither does mysticism or religion. What is your point?

Jesse,
i mean memory of a lifetime by hard disc which gets smashed may in an accident.or inactivated. due to terminal. illness etc .if not hammered to pieces or irradiated with micriwaves to brain dead state. While i mean body organs as tools provided for lifetime which have to be surrendered.

Hope rest is clear in my comment. Its my vision and belief about self.


"Science has no answers on death of body"

Neither does mysticism or religion.

I think mystics say "we could tell you more but you'd hafta
kill yourself to get it."

"I think mystics say"

Sometimes I suspect you're a bot.

There are no mystics outside of DMT users,and they report vastly different experiences all the time.

Religious poets, whom in error you refer to as mystics, obviously agree on nothing, so mentioning them as providers of knowledge of the afterlife isn't worth the effort.

Nobody knows anything about what happens after death yet many opine with feigned confidence because of nothing more than the bigotry of religion.

The dunning-kruger effect is probably nowhere else so visible as in the subject of the afterlife. Literally nobody has died and come back to tell of it, but everyone is certain that they were born in the right religion or found the right book and thus have the true afterlife knowledge.

As far as we know, death is the end and religious poets are dead wrong. Because they're dead. Forever.


I think mystics say"

Sometimes I suspect you're a bot.

You nailed it! In fact, until mindfulness is honed to become
aware of our thoughts, we' are all automatons. We knee-jerk
reactively to every perceived threat.

It happens so rapidly we miss it without a pin hole leak in our
bot-shield. We race to attack, subtly diminish, and to neutralize
the attack on our "bot-hood". Then we feel restored. Our ego is
intact once again. Long live the inviolable bot.


Religious poets, whom in error you refer to as mystics, obviously agree on nothing, so mentioning them as providers of knowledge of the afterlife isn't worth the effort.

The bot speaks! "You are in error... thou knoweth not a religious
poet from a mystic." Mystics speak about transcendence which
reductively becomes only "not this, not that, no, no,... " which
quickly becomes tiresome, so they must speak metaphorically
about a reality beyond time and space.

Naturally mystics agree on "nothing" except that the path is
inside. Language fails. It's experiential only and a deep
mindfulness is a necessity.


Nobody knows anything about what happens after death yet many opine with feigned confidence because of nothing more than the bigotry of religion.

I agree. The bot-afflicted don't know or opine. Mystics assert
that blind belief is a trap and truth must be experienced. It
begins with a mindfulness about our thoughts and what's
within. They invite us to resist the "bot".


It's so easy to state that we know nothing about what happens after we die, perhaps because we want to be seen as 'liberal' and 'open minded' – or do we perhaps harbour an almost unconscious allegiance to the persistent background feeling that death may not be the end? I believe we do.

When out in the countryside, just look at anything you come across that's dead. It rots and decays, no sign of anything that can continue. What was once a living organism is either feeding other creatures or returning to the soil as nutrients. This is how things are and should be. Any attempt to change this natural order is futile and vain.

Unless of course you are a human being and what characterises a human being is a hugely strong sense of self. So strong in fact that it feels itself to be the most important thing ever and although the whole body/brain organism will meet death as it approaches, the self will (and does) conjure up all manner of stories to imagine its survival – even if those stories are in the form of barely conscious feelings.

These constructs of thought – whether we are aware of them or not – are what the mind/self/ego does. In one way or another its whole raison d'etre is to survive. In spite of the mind/self structure being illusory (not what it seems) its still an admirable survival aid but it does have the habit of hope and invention – maybe for the sake of sanity.

You wrote: "I've had glimpses of the void that follows our last breath."

This indicates that there was some "thing" aware of a void. How could you know about it or even have a glimpse of it without awareness of it? If there were truly nothing, you could not have known about it. There could have been no moment of experiencing empty voidness. You would have just closed your eyes, then opened them with no awareness of experience in between. The fact that you had an experience or sense of dark voidness means some awareness was there to know voidness.

I would think you would be celebrating that no matter what, even experiencing black dark, empty void, you as awareness were still there knowing it. In fact you may have just experienced the truth of what Max Planck said when he said, "Consciousness is fundamental. Matter [and everything else] is derivative of consciousness."

You won't, because you can't, name these "mystics" or ever give examples of this massive agreement between them because it doesn't exist. The mystic agreement is an RS trope and perrenialism is a fraud. No basis in reality, even on the basics. There are certainly outwardly focused mystics. Your entire birth-religion of Judaism is full of them.

But the point is that they know nothing about death or any existence of an afterlife because it's impossible to know. Discussing this topic is absurd.

We have a life dependent on our senses that is processed by a physical object called a brain that can hide its expressions. Seems "interior" but it isn't mystical. After we experience things sensually, we die. That's what we know. The rest is philosophy and mouths moving. Attempts to distract ourselves from exactly what Brian is talking about, which is the horror of finality that is naturally part of us. It can't be conquered or solved, and we hate that feeling from a genetic level. It goes against everything we are during life as problem solvers, seekers and fighters holding onto life.

It'll be taken at some point. All of it gone, and no Delhiite is coming to carry you to a home of lights and bells. Blackness. Eternal sleep. It's the one thing the Jehovah's Witnesses are correct about.

There are various answers:
1. The religious answer:
You will go to HEAVEN if you behave yourself - otherwise it's eternal damnation in HELL. Take your pick
2: RSSB answer:
Meditate and take your soul to the first region, where you will meet the radiant form of GuruJi and then he will take you step by step to Sach Khand. Cool - you better get meditating
3: sant mat 2.0 / 3.0 answer
There is no Sach Khand. And no guru can take you. There is only the ONENESS and that means there is no separate self. Nobody to worry about. No soul.
4: The Athiest Answer:
I ain't got a clue mate. When I die, I die, what can I do?
5: Spirituality Answer:
(a) DUALITY (b) ONENESS
Birth, death Neither exists
Good and Bad No good and no bad
Right and Wrong No Right and No Wrong
A separate ME (Soul) no ME or YOU
fear of death (change) No fear of non existence

6: The Punching Sevadar answer:
Death? I'll punch it in the face if it comes near me
7: Sevadar #2 answer:
Death comes:
Sevadar #2: Do you know who I am?
Death: I know
Sevadar #2 : I am more dangerous than sevadar #1. Don't mess with me.
I am warning you. Otherwise you will find out who I really am

8: BabaJi's answer
connect with the SHABD and you will not die
the meaning behind his answer:
connect with shabd means to REALISE the ONENESS.
In that oneness - there is no separate YOU so nobody to die
Just as there is no YOU living now
9: s Kapoor's answer:
Death? You are a JOKE, Mr death - a JOKE!
10: The Positive Thinker's answer:
Death? forget about it. Live your life.
Death will take of itself when it comes. Why worry?

10. Osho's answer (the real dude, not me)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Unaf5B4mM
11. U G Krishnamurti gives a detailed answer here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssl77Xl1hXU
25 mins in: A living person will not ask "is there anything after my death..."
everything is coming to an end. but you dont want to accept this - so you create the
notion of an "afterlife" or some version of it because you cannot accept non-existence.


You won't, because you can't, name these "mystics" or ever give examples of this massive agreement between them because it doesn't exist. The mystic agreement is an RS trope and perrenialism is a fraud. No basis in reality, even on the basics.

Won't what? Name mystics? I never stated there was any massive
agreement among them. Because they're describing an ineffable
reality, there won't be. But they do agree on looking within, on
mindfulness, on studying consciousness itself. At least the ones
that resonate with me.

You won't find a definitive mystical tome or consensus about best
practices. Can you cite "outward" mystics, bizarre inconsistencies,
myriads of cases of "mouths moving" with no real awareness. Of
course. Mysticism isn't immune from that.

BOTS were mentioned. In fact, we've become bots and swear
we haven't. Mysticism is the anti-bot practice. The one which
pulls back the curtain to reveal the "wizard" twirling knobs and
yanking the puppet's strings.

Don't go on studying the bot. Constantly reacting to evil bots
coursing the airwaves. Stop searching for the next shiny antidote
outside. Experience truth within yourself. That's mysticism.

As far as I am concerned I'd sum up the fear of death as the fear of the loss of ego. We put up with all sorts of suffering - usually in the hope of getting somewhere or something, the job, position, money etc. - whereas the prospect of the loss of ego, of the self is a freedom that no-one really wants.

We play around with meditation, spirituality and so on which one way or another promises freedom, but as such freedom suggests the loss of the ego/self we shy away from that.

Actually, the ego/self will always remain, its just that its transitory structure is seen as the mental construct it is. The body can accept death as the reality of the moment but the ego/self structure always desires to continue to dwell in fairyland.

Turan
Ate you writing a book. The ego/self etc.
Am I fearing the loss of ego/self at death??
No! I would like to carry on living enjoying what I can, while I can.
I have known people who have committed suicide and it wasn't because they were not afraid of the loss of ego. It was because life was too fucking painful!

This conscious of awareness self ego is a load of claptrap.
It is me that is alive. Me, Michael. 😍😎

If we would get to know about the unknown terrain at death and beyond by little effort in meditation. wIIh love for Him(God or Guru) or. take others' meditational experiences as gospel truth the task and actions here and now could be calberated accordingly to make it simple and fair - the Lord's plan for us all.

Its more of our simplicity and humbleness that is going to make it simple even if not supported by adequate meditation or far inside experiences.

I think we need to behave as an alien trapped in this body than body who is constantly finding vent to release itself which anyways is available to us than sifting logical ways and intellectual means to know thyself. Till one is released now or at the time of dearh I doubt one could know all about him/herself.

“Are you writing a book. The ego/self etc?”

Interesting you should say that. As a layman and non-academic I have researched (through many avenues) and wrote down my findings and understanding of the mind, self, ego etc. It has been a lifelong interest and enquiry. Indeed, I have enough material to fill several books but I feel there are already so many books relating to these subjects that explain these matters much better than I ever could. And, it can all be terribly confusing.

Also, I believe that the majority of the readers and seekers in these matters are not overly serious in discovering the core of the problems that we and humanity suffers. Yes, I agree, life can be painful and perhaps our suffering is due to our unwillingness to expose the 'I', 'me' or 'self' as the root cause of our conflicts, fears and insecurities.

Fear

It is said before entering the sea the river trembles with fear

She looks back at the path she has travelled. From the peaks of the mountains, the long winding road, crossing forests and villages

And in front of her she sees an ocean so vast, that to enter there seems nothing more than to disappear forever

But there is no other way. The river cannot go back. Nobody can go back. To go back is impossible in existence.

The river needs to take the risk of entering the ocean, because only then will fear disappear, because that's where the river will know It's not about disappearing into the ocean but of becoming the ocean.

Khalil Gibran

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