Open Thread 24 (free speech for comments)

Here's a new Open Thread.

I appreciate that off-topic comments have been going in a previous Open Thread. As noted before, it's good to have comments in a regular blog post related to its subject, and it's also good to have a place where anything goes in regard to sharing ideas, feelings, experiences, and such. That place is an Open Thread.

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks devoid of substantive content are an exception.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[manjit]

Recently I've received a few comments from people asking me to comment. I find myself with nothing to say, having no real interest in the worldly shenanigans of Gugu and co. But I will say this :)

My only interest here and the RSS forum over the past 20 odd years has been to discuss with genuine seekers of a similar bent of mind to mine. Recently I have realised, there are none. Not a single one in 20 years. I don't mean initiates aged 40 and over (more like 60 and over!), for whom it is not my place to try and discuss or convince them of anything. I don't mean the overwhelming majority, those born into this religion, or with elder family members, but independant, new seekers; Not. A. Single. ONE.

Wow.

That RS, and RSSB specifically, is a religion and not a genuine vehicle for spiritual exploration and growth is obvious and imo goes without saying. I don't need to say anything, just let the apologists and defenders here keep commenting. It becomes more and more obvious with every post they write. The SPs, the Georgy Porgys (s/he who "has no connection to RSSB or Gurinder", yet is obviously related to the religion by family connection!), the "whodunits" and all the rest. They are the best critics of RS and RSSB, imo.

The fact that the only online places to discuss RS is a now defunct and inaccessible Yahoo forum, and a blog where comments have to be moderated by a dyed in the wool atheist and materialist says it all. Which other spiritual practice is so limited in it's discussion forums? An absolutely ridiculous state of affairs.

Yes, as per the "name" of a new commenter here, RSSB is dead. As is RS in general.

Gugu's spectacular fall from grace is just an extension of all the various things that clearly demonstrate RS and all it's gurus are not what they claim, from Kirpal's various self-serving egotistical tall tales to Charan's disgraceful and ignorant comments about homosexuality published in official literature; human, all too human.

So, have at it all. I have no interest in commenting further.

RS is not dead because of Gugu's obvious non-guru-like behaviour. It is dead because it is an utterly absurd paradigm within which there are only failures (at liberation, not miracle stories and blind belief like any other religion or cult, or semi-lucid dreams/astral projection....but LIBERATION)

Ahh, but perhaps therein lies the secret.

Gugu's spectacular fall from Grace will liberate more souls than any previous RS Satguru.

Tis a mystery that few will understand.

Peace.

[Michael]

Manjit
Just when I get fed up with the blog, you come along and post this.
A great from the heart comment
🙏

[Jesse]

"Charan's disgraceful and ignorant comments about homosexuality"

lol not the sacred homosexuals! How DARE he not express his desire for them to find their way into teaching positions to prey on children! (said in spastic Greta Thunberg's accent)

I realize you're just way too humble, spiritually advanced and all around too good to keep reading or commenting here, but you should watch the documentary about bugchasing called The Gift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqwf-EOtro

[Jesse]

Open Question to anyone who believes they have an ability to unlock secrets in religious texts via skills gained from silently repeating words in Indian languages.

As we all know, in many traditions it is said that there comes a time when the world becomes extremely corrupt, evil and nearly uninhabitable for most of the population. At this time, some sort of avatar, or divine being,descends from the sky riding a white horse and kills all the evil doers on earth. It's the same for Islam, Christianity,and Hinduism.

With this in mind, do you think Kim Jon Un riding on a white horse to the sacred mountain of North Korea is a sign that we're all about to get completely REKT in the apocalypse?

[Tim Rimmer]

Manjit ‘young fella’ good to read your latest post - have to say it brought up some recollection re the whole spiritual trip for me and I feel like rambling on a bit.
That you say there are no seekers of a similar bent of mind to you is both interesting and perhaps a little sad? It’s been my observation (limited of course) that over the years many young folk don’t seem to have that yearning intensity to know themselves in the same way as I and some of my friends did. There are some serious issues with depression and mental illness affecting many younger folk these days. Some say it’s due to lack of time spent within nature. Attention spans seem shorter and many are coming to terms with identity issues in a physical reality that one could describe as ‘seriously deteriorating in a natural sense’, and gearing up for likely machine consciousness in an evolutionary one. That’s my take at present.
In my late teens early twenties I was consumed with desire/longing for the truth of life/God. I investigated many so-called spiritual paths, (like others who post here). What sealed it for me (then) was meeting a really cool dude who has remained my best mate ever since - he introduced me to Sant Mat. In the eighties and nineties it (RSSB) surely did not seem to be religious-like. However, those of us brought up in the West generally only saw snippets of traditional Indian beliefs/behaviour while we were caught up in the whole guru/darshan/meditation/club-med Dera/tasty food/interesting international people trip. It sure was a pretty cool and at times blissful scene. However, I personally remained open to anything that could help with mental and emotional turbulence - hence rebirthing, Buddhist/Advaita approaches etc.
Something changed with RSSB in the early 2000s imo. I think all the new rules/loss of ‘freedoms’ were part of it. As time passed maybe your point about GSD’s cancer affecting his behaviour is valid. Also Brian started this blog then (2006?) i.e. it possibly also reflected this change.
While you say he is an atheist/materialist it’s my view that he’s still keeping an open eye on things, continues to meditate, and allows ‘interesting’ posts. I will say I’ve tried in several recently to generate interest in broader discussion around consciousness - in brain/outside, also psychedelics(which I’ve mostly read about) and neuroscience research e.g. the default mode network, but little or no return comment. Maybe people are not interested. However, I think most is lost amidst this on-going drama with ‘Gugu’. RSSB is still alive and well on this blog.
It’s alive because many of us have or had a very strong attachment to it for many years. It shaped us into the people we are today and helped us (most of us?) keep it together particularly through meditational discipline.
However all things change and as someone (and also myself) said in earlier posts - perhaps the hardest thing to give up/let go is the guru, in particular one’s concepts about that personality. At some stage you’ve gotta kill that Buddha you meet on the road.
I agree with you that Sant Mat is now a religion, maybe it always was. One thing for sure is that followers are going to have to really wake up soon when they see their guru is in court and perhaps even in jail. I have friends who have trucked on nicely over the last few years munching prasad then putting their head back in the sand. Their world will be rocked. Yet as you say this could well be Gurinder’s greatest gift to them.
Say hi to Osho if you see him.
Peace be upon thee also.

[One Initiated]

Manjit,

Can you present the facts to support your view on 777's comment about earth quake?

Either you are more gullible than others here
OR
It is actually You who could not understand the Timezones.

If you can not, let me throw some light on the facts here:

this comment posted by 777 https://tinyurl.com/y497skgh
was posted on 6:01 AM (PST) - as recorded by Brian's blog's webserver.
(fyi this recording time of the comment is not editable)

And here on this page you may read:
https://www.usgs.gov/news/update-magnitude-71-earthquake-southern-california?qt-news_science_products=7#qt-news_science_products

The time recorded for the Earthquake was 10:34 AM.

Even if you would consider the daylight saving adjustment and consider PDT instead of PST, it will still be 9:34 AM.

Also here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ridgecrest_earthquakes

The reported time of the FIRST Mainshock on July 4th was: 17:33 UTC (which is 10:33 PST)

And that was the First Mainshock and it's aftershocks resulted in further mainshocks for the next few days with different epicentres.

[Whodunit]

Some time ago a representative of RSSB had told me that the first 5 gurus of the Sikh movement were genuine saints and that the remaining 5 gurus were not. That by the time of Guru Arjan 5th Sikh guru it had started becoming enshrined as a religious institution.

Hence Nanak, Angad, Amar Das, Ram Das, and Arjan were regarded as genuine spiritual leaders and teachers / gurus. The remaining 5 gurus were not.

As noted from Wikipedia the Sikh succession of gurus was not dissimilar to that of RSSB in that there were splits and breakaway movements as well as jealous disputes between those who assumed succession when the guru favored someone else more aligned with the teaching he taught.

Arjan's son Hargobind was given succession after his father was executed by Emperor Jahangir.

After the martyrdom of Guru Arjan, his son Guru Hargobind at age eleven became the sixth guru of the Sikhs and Sikhism dramatically evolved to become a political movement in addition to being religious.

The last 5 Sikh gurus were far removed in teaching and in principle of tenets to that of the first 5 since Nanak. Gobind Singh and Teg Bahadur were warriors who hunted and who as have been revealed in historical accounts ate meat.

Sant Mat under RSSB is quite possibly at a similar juncture that is becoming enshrined as a religious institution.
It is difficult to consider after Gurinder if there would be any successor capable of returning to a simple path unencumbered by political and financial intrigue.

[slave_of_GSD]

Clearly the guru is clever and might get away with the fraud and the money issues he is involved in.

anyone with a brain can see he is involved in dodgy money dealings.

he could quite easily get away with it by denying everything.

obviously he received money but he can claim it was a legitimate business transaction.

they wont have any written agreement in place and if Godhwani agrees to take the rap for his part and claim he was the guilty party, the guru will not get charged.

Posted by: RSSB is FINISHED | October 12, 2019 at 03:56 PM

Convenient hedging. Cold feet maybe. Lame justifications already. See I told you so. LoL.

The guru can hoodwink all that pile of clinching evidence!!! Ex-Finance Minister of India (an immensely more powerful individual than GSD and one known for his cerebral arrogance cant)

Pile of evidence (according to you) will turn to worthless shit huh?

Sould my pity consider you worthy?

RSSB_is_FINISHED. --- this ID certainly will.

Posted by: slave_of_GSD | October 15, 2019 at 08:55 PM

[Jim Sutherland]

WhoDunit writes,...” It is difficult to consider after Gurinder if there would be any successor capable of returning to a simple path unencumbered by political and financial intrigue.”

Me: Again, Professor David Lane could pull RSSB all together, as GSD’s Successor Guru. He has not only Charan Singh’s Blessing, but has the Credentials, the Stamina, the Financial Security, and Family to back him. His long time friend, Vince Savarise could even remain the U.S. Western Rep. under Guru Laneji, and Brian Hines would be re-established as Guru Lane’s Head of Security replacing Wayne. Hines has a Black Belt, so is one Bad Assed Dudeji. In order to make RSSB Great Again, Turbans will NOT be worn by Master Laneji, or his Devotees, and Turbans will be replaced by Gold Base Ball Caps with Logos,..
MRSSBGA. ( Make RSSB Great Again). Since Professor David Lane’s Wife won’t move to India, the Dera will be moved from Beas to Palm Desert, California,where Professor Lane’s present Villa is located, and the grounds will be transformed in to RSSPD....i.e. Radaswami Satsang Palm Desert. Gurinder Singh Dhillan will be invited to sit on the Dias with Master Laneji once a year at Bhandara after Dhillon gets out of Jail and has completed his Sentence. Sawan’s Prophecy of the Spiritual Shift from East To West will unfold before our eyes. Spence will be appointed as the Scribe of RSSPD.
What do the Pundits think?
Jim Sutherland

[🙏🙏 🙏😮 🙏🙏 🙏]

Thank You One Initiated for the searhes
Time is going fast these days

So let's replay it because the other phrases about Shabd are even more enlightening

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

--
""". However, religious believers and others with rigid minds start with a conclusion -- like. """

This might apply to all kind of lower chakra religions
where the Beautiful Gorgeous & Lovely Sound above our eyes has been forgotten
, although they hv vague remembrances in their scriptures

However
In RSSB cases it is :
How to tell somebody in crushing worldly Love that s/he is totally wrong ?
How to convince the Louvre Museum to get rid of their La Gioconda?
Tell a Lover that the Beatles is shit music
Convince me that I'm not happy

Millions of analphabetic RSSB initiates
not only hear but are profoundly encapsulated mesmerized
by that unstruck TANGIBLE phenomenon and many ascended/hiked already
in triumph, yet stay humble

Tell Captain Picard that his Enterprise Ship can't fly

Nagging these Jeevas might result in >6.5 on the Richter scale

777

Posted by: [email protected] | July 04, 2019 at 06:01 AM

Brian declared again in a wrong statement:

"What is it like to be you? Impossible to know."

Wrong

When we are fixed, absorbed in the Sweet Majestic Sound , . .
you are that "YOU" too
at any moment

777

Posted by: [email protected] | July 05, 2019 at 02:18 AM

777
I noticed this comment of your made and posted at 6 am on the 4th of July.
“Nagging these Jeevas might result in >6.5 on the Richter scale”

Were you referring to the 6.6 earthquake near LA which happened 4 hours after?

😮

Posted by: Vijay | July 05, 2019 at 06:40 AM

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Please Don't Worry, . . . Be very Happy

[Nancy]

The more I read this blog the more I realize what the regular commenters have in common. All want to be Guru. With the comments of Laneji, Brianji, guru jessie, Spence and his visions, osho and his oneness. This is the common thread that binds them. And this the dirt thrown at the present master.

[PJ]

@Whodunit
There is a clear path of succession in RSSB though. If one is a fraud then they all were.

And as for the sikh gurus, how many times do the words 'his son' come up lol Things don't change.

[Jesse]

Nancy, I'd rather be dead than to be a guru of anyone. I find the concept of gurudom to be a detriment to all human aspirations. All communication should be on 4chan and other anonymous message boards so personalities are removed completely and only the best ideas win.

I go to great lengths to be alone as much as possible and also of being truly honest, which is something most people are incapable of. Being a guru would mean having to suffer the most annoying and desperate people on earth all the time and being tortured by their unwanted attention.

I'd have to lie to my students because unlike the one true God UG Krishnamurti, it would wear me out to constantly have to point out others fantastical delusions.

If I ever become a guru I believe promise you it's just for money and access to ditzy women with daddy issues. Nothing spiritual about it.

[Arjuna]

@ jesse

"If I ever become a guru I believe promise you it's just for money and access to ditzy women with daddy issues. Nothing spiritual about it."

Awesome- think we need to party in Ibiza in March. The women are out of this world.

[Georgy Porgy]

I can say with absolute certainty that there are fekall chance of any gurus on this here site. This is a fact, almost as certain as death & taxes.

[Jen]

"I go to great lengths to be alone as much as possible and also of being truly honest, which is something most people are incapable of."

Jesse, you would make a wonderful guru, even your comments here make me laugh and cheer me up. I love honesty but unfortunately most people have a facade and play their little games and I probably do the same, being polite just to survive!

[Jesse]

Ok Arjun. Baba Ibiza it is.

Get the club rented and the liquor poured. We're partying our way into heaven.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"I can say with absolute certainty that there are fekall chance of any gurus on this here site. This is a fact, almost as certain as death & taxes."

Everyone is a teacher of something, Georgy. Every parent teaches their child. But children also teach their parents. But can their parents learn from their children? And thus learn to be better parents?

I think the quality of a good teacher is that they have mastered the art of being a top student.

Being a good student doesn't make you a good teacher, but I think it's a minimum condition.

As for a Guru, a spiritual teacher, I've learned many spiritual lessons and life lessons from Satsangis and non - Satsangis. Not just my Master and Gurinder.

The same joy, the same utter bliss I used to get sitting in the Master's presence I now get within. He is there. Isn't that what we all wanted? So when we finally are blessed with that, it's very difficult to be harsh with anyone. The harshness only comes acknowledging facts, which we are obliged to do. It is a necessity to be very strict about our vows, and facts as part of maintaining a clean atmosphere of helpfulness and ahimsa. But how we handle those difficult truths should reflect brotherhood.

So, I think we all really just want to submit, submit, submit to that sunny warmth. Everyone does. Even the Master, at least a perfect Master, is in constant submission to their own Master.

The best teachers are the best students. They aren't actually teachers at all. That's a side function. Others follow them, others can't help but gravitate to them. Real teachers, if you can even use that term, take no formal authority. Their students submit from love, not any formal position.

Their first job is to be a good student. And so whether you are a teacher, which can only be truly defined by those who elect to follow you, your only real job is to be the best student.

If you are a good student, you learn, you investigate, you listen and reflect. What you get from that submission to the reality around you and within you is everything. You are trying to understand, especially those who have completely different views. Understand and appreciate. And at first your own Master may seem very foreign. But in time you become him, he becomes you.

Let's put opinions aside for a while, and appreciate the kindness of being in each other's company. These little relationships are like chocolates. Some are bittersweet, some dark, some very syrupy (my favorite), but they are here and gone in an instant.

Those little gulab jamin balls in syrup, how sweet, but devoured all too soon.

Then when we are above this and we all can see for ourselves, that open view won't be so special. It's the kindness we showed here, when we were ignorant of any reason to be kind, but did it anyway.

Like watching animals show wordless acts of compassion for each other. Their very limitations make those acts very special.

[Dungeness]

Jesse, you would make a wonderful guru, even your comments here make me laugh and cheer me up. I love honesty but unfortunately most people...

That's the spirit... we need a "party guru" ala Omar:

“Drink wine. This is life eternal. This is all that youth will give you. It is the season for wine, roses and drunken friends. Be happy for this moment. This moment is your life.”
― Omar Khayyam

Of course you need to be a bit cautious:

“To wisely live your life, you don't need to know much
Just remember two main rules for the beginning:
You better starve, than eat whatever
And better be alone, than with whoever.”
― Omar Khayyám

[Jesse]

This is a satsang from the supreme guru of all mankind. The true sant preaching the current yugadharma.

Five minutes and forty five seconds that will change your life forever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoPtz0Xt91c

[cocky me]

Ok Arjun. Baba Ibiza it is.

Get the club rented and the liquor poured. We're partying our way into heaven.

Posted by: Jesse | October 17, 2019 at 05:23 PM

Hello Caligula oops Jesse

Don't forget to send in the pics. We'll have a nice thread on this too.