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August 19, 2019

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RSSB is meant to be a spiritual organisation and is also called
Science of the soul.

I for one have always seen it that way right up to this incident. Last Sunday, before the national satsang, Babaji said to me in the Q&A that everything always happens “in hukam” and I agree.

This too is in hukam. Nothing happens outside of hukam. Not even this.

It was hukam that I get punched in the face. Obviously “The ONENESS” wants to stir things up for me.

The Oneness is welcome.

Let’s see what unfolds.

@ Osho. Could you remember the face of the person who punched you. This is so wrong. Makes me angry.

Osho
Will you be hanging from the Dias by one hand, desperately clinging on to avoid falling into the shark pool.
Or maybe they’ll strap you to a metal table with a laser slowly moving upwards to splice you in two.
Eekies 😱

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-43522574

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/07/rssb-fined-484000-after-haynes-park-death.html

First story from BBC News
Second story Brian’s Blog

I don't buy this. Osho phones the police because they withold his phone but when someone then punches him the face he doesn't make it a police matter?

I've never seen anyone punch anyone at Haynes. I highly doubt a sevadar, even as annoying and arrogant as some of them are, would do that during a national satsang.

And wouldn't that be the crux of his first post lol rather than mentioning it as an afterthought?

I went to a Seventh Day Adventist Church twice with a friend. Both times volunteers /cogregants washed our feet. What a contrast? These volunteers likecRSSB sevadars are yearning to reach God.


Arjuna, many many years ago during a visist, before satsang started, my wife had to go to the bathroom. She laid a shawl on her chair before the went. On her return a sevadar started angrily shouting at her as if she had committed a kind of crime.

They had received instructions that nobody should claim a seat by laying personal stuff on the seat. That sevadar, an elderly gentle man, was known to all of as a kind person.

After the ceremony was over he went up to my wife to apologize. That would have been the conclusion of the incident were it not that he said something that made me think and remember.

He said that he never again would take such an seva as he was totally surprised that he reacted so out of his normal comfort zone without knowing and understanding what came over him.

I never forget this incident and in the years to follow I was witness of different incidents in which sevadars acted completed different from their normal way of behavior. Sometimes these incidents were hilarious.

Let me tell you one …. a lady sevadar was asked to clean a bathroom . When I walked in I saw her standing inside the bath with her shoes on. Surprised by what I saw, I asked her what she was doing. She answered that she was cleaning the bath. I reacted with `yes I know but why for heavens sake are you standing with your shoes in the bath ..,. do you clean your bath at home also this way?! No she said. When I asked her why she would do it here the way she was doing … she looked at me as if struck by lightning and said I don't don't know I have never done it before this way.

Even to day after all these years trying to find an answe I still don't know what happens with people acting so out of their normal doing when doing seva when a guru is around.

There are quite a lot of these "strange" reactions.

I should add to it that I can't remember that these incidents happend during the time of his uncle. Sevadars have become more and more strict over the years.

Often the orders are reasonable but the way they are excecuted can be weird, to say the least.

Again it makes me think of the transition of the feudal reign by the mandarins in China to the bureaucrats of the communist regime as to be seen in the movie "the last emperor"

It seems to me that everything is turned upside down and that everybody is duped like when an coloniy of ants is disturbed by an outside incident.

Mike,

Thank goodness you aren't a Sevadar. LOL

There was zero resistance and zero retaliation from me during the entire two day episode.
When the punching in the face incident happened I was on the way leaving Haynes park, and my brother in law saw me leaving. But the volunteers in question stopped me from leaving and then carried out the premeditated attack.

If anything they will be shocked at my level of nonviolence because Apart from asking them to let me go, there was no other resistance from me.

Six or seven guys onto one defenceless member of the sangat. There was no reason for the attack as I was on the way out of Haynes park.

Hardly a sign of great bravery to attack a defenceless person who already wants to leave.

Of course if questioned they may lie but I can prove my position, that I was already leaving. This was a totally unprovoked attack to show me that the sevadars in question had the power to ban me.
“Egos on steroids” is all I can say

@ osho. You must have been seen as a threat for 6 guys to have come over.

I would have loved being in your place. 6 guys. Take the toughest looking guy out first. Another two will think they are hard and have a go. And the other 3 will run. Just saying. No one hits me. I would have defended myself and their ancestors in Punjab would have felt the upper cuts and body shots. Just saying.

Stay safe dude.

Ohso,

Did the puncher look Japanese... ?

P.S. Note item #4 below.

From "Striking with the Zen Stick" by Dan Prock

Japanese sensei would often strike a member of a kaizen team with a verbal or behavioral Zen stick. This watered-down Western version might have looked or sounded like:

1. Asking a question and allowing an awkward silence
2. A look that expressed doubt about an individual’s approach to a problem
3. A blunt, not-politically-correct comment
4. A series of “why-why” questions, revealing a lack of knowledge, with no hints offered
5. Negative body language indicating doubt or rejection of a quick solution idea
6. Just walking away, saying nothing, being rude without remorse
7. Allowing psychological tension to build in a team meeting and just waiting
8.Reviewing or challenging whether a change is actually working as planned; or isn’t

When those early Japanese sensei struck us with the Zen stick, it was a wake-up call. They used small doses of conflict to purposefully to inoculate us against our habits and approval-seeking and our being lost in self-centered thoughts or feelings.

They used the Zen stick to temporarily shift Western individuality to collaboration, to deflate our egos, and thus open our conscious bandwidth to be fully present.

There are books and a movie on love by RSSB, such as, labour of love, legacy of love, love in action, enigma of love.
I guess Osho's interaction with sevadars is a real enigma of love in action and a legacy of love.

PJ
Whether you buy this or not makes no difference. You don’t have all the facts yet. The full story is coming soon.
The police were already onsite the first day when my phone stolen. The police classify it as theft.

The second day, I did file it with the police immediately after it happened.
The police were in traffic duty just outside Haynes. The same officers as the previous day.

I have no reason to lie or file a false allegation. That would be an offence anyway.

You don’t have the full story yet so don’t be so quick to judge.

That’s also the reason I don’t judge too hastily.

When the full story comes out next week, then you can judge

I went to Haynes Park on Saturday and Sunday.

My observations are that:
(a) the guru seemed incredibly objective and rational to me. I didn’t hear him raise a single religious concept. I did hear many people asking religious questions to which he kept trying to pull them out of it.
(b) I dint see any strong-arm security guards or Sevadars. I did see a lot of smiling ppl who clasped their hands together and bowed to welcome me.
(c) I didn’t see any police dealing with any such incident
(c) the rules clearly request each person to not make recordings. Why are you attending at all if you have no interest in respecting the rules? If you go looking for a fight and disrespecting rules - why cry when you get into one?

My overall and lasting impression was just how practical and objective the guru is. He seems like a v nice and wise uncle. Instead its many of the satsangis who insist on asking all the religious questions and getting blessed by his grace etc. Instead he keeps trying to patiently yet firmly try to snap them out of their supernatural beliefs and telling them he can not do smh such thing and bring them back to the practical principles of the path.

I get the feeling the whole thing and all it’s teachings have been grossly misrepresented. The guru said if anyone was perfect, he’d no longer be here. But he’s here, so he knows he’s not perfect - I dunno where you get all this GIHF claptrap from.

George, to be kind to those who are kind, behave as ordered etc, even dogs can do so.

Even in countries as North Korea, China and other totalitarian regimes, nobody will harm you and you can even feel at home, if you go with the flow … but if you question them or anything, you will see their other face.

It is the same what one can see in police corps all over the world. Some misuse the legal power given to them for their own selfish motives. When it becomes public the police authorities tend to play things down or cover it up in their desire to be seen as protectors of justice .ect.

Not to forget what happens in religious organisations

It is all too human.

" Osho phones the police because they withold his phone "

How'd he prove they previously had his phone if he was calling them with his phone anyway? Did he use oneness magic and bilocate to where his phone was?

Who cares. It's a clown show at this point. We got the "Gurinder is my homie" guy getting beat up (allegedly), Dungeness predictably calling it a spiritual exercise of enlightened Zen senseis, others saying Osho was wrong because holding a mobile phone in god's presence is grounds for getting your face punched in and kidnapped.

Am I the only one who thinks that, assuming any part of this unlikely story is real, the best thing would have been Osho starting an all out brawl and going down throwing hands with these goons?

" I would have defended myself and their ancestors in Punjab would have felt the upper cuts and body shots. Just saying. "

Arjun knows what's up.

Uhoh Georgy Porgy!!! You fallen for the charisma of a cult leader!! In the words of Anakin: "Its working, its working!!!!"


Who cares. It's a clown show at this point. We got the "Gurinder is my homie" guy getting beat up (allegedly), Dungeness predictably calling it a spiritual exercise of enlightened Zen senseis

No one is so impoverished as he who has no sense of humor.

No one has the authority to use violence, anywhere. I realize if someone is non violent by nature, they would have the reaction Osho had. Maybe it was the right decision for him.

Not for me. It becomes a case of self defense and that guy who punched me in the face would be picking his teeth up off the ground. Sevadars or anyone else, it doesn't matter. GSD even says we aren't supposed be push overs, have to stand up for ourselves.

Especially to rogue sevadars like you've alleged. Like Arjuna said. First one goes down, another one steps up, but the other 2 or 3 will back off.

What these sevadars allegedly did is completely wrong and need to be held accountable for their actions.

@Osho Fair enough, after all I wasn't there.

The matter will go all the way to the top to the guru himself. I have more than enough support to do this from satsangis who know me and my father and family.
Don’t forget, my father was one of the early uk satsangis from 1963.

…..¿A Gang Rape victim appeals to the Gang Leader for justice?

Mobile phones can be used to detonate a bomb. Tomorrow, people will fight with all the institutions which restrict the use of mobile phones as per their policy of restriction.

"No one is so impoverished as he who has no sense of humor."

I've no choice but to assume that you're racist against autists.

I've been joking about all kinds of things here and nobody laughs, yet I'm easily the most funny person alive. Unquestionably the most funny man alive. Yet somehow you manage to turn your lack of a funny bone against me?

This will not stand. Do you know who my father is?


I figure you boys would get an ass-whipping from the sevadars, and that’s just the old ladies. They have the force with them.

This sounds bullshit to me. I never seen anything more genteel in my life - there was cups of tea on a pommie estate - dunno what Haynes park sessions you all going too

Friday: Fraudulent Satsangi saves Seva.
Saturday: Six senior satsangis sock ex speaker on jaw.
Can’t wait for Sunday’s episode.

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"I get the feeling the whole thing and all it’s teachings have been grossly misrepresented."

This applies to everthing anyone taught.

Reality is way oversold, as is most fantasy.

Grorge

Ass-whipping from old sevadar ladies is that your fantasy as the Baba would ask you. Kinky thoughts dude. I suggest you don't go for haynes if you want to be whipped by old woman.

Hi Osho

I think my earlier message got lost in cyber space.

Basically, I think that, if you didn't provoke violence, either by verbal abuse, or physical threat (like swinging first) you should file a formal police complaint. This is, after all, unprovoked physical violence, right? And then a judge can take an objective view and render a judgment. And then you are just practicing good citizenship.

Once you feel calm and safe, that is...

@jesse
You quoted “Osho phones the police because they withold his phone "

Then you go on to ask
“How'd he prove they previously had his phone if he was calling them with his phone anyway”

This is how the truth gets twisted. Firstly I didn’t phone the police. That was a comment by PJ, who made a false assumption.m that you took that as fact.

And before you know it you are questioning the truth but the reason is because you don’t have the facts.
The facts are.

I didn’t phone the police from my phone
They were already onsite so I just walked over to them.

However before I was made aware by the people at the information / lost property point that the police are already on site, I was going to phone them. So I asked them if I can use the office phone to make the call. They said “there is a public phone booth right across the walkway. Sure enough there was, only I had no money with me apart from a single £20 note. They have me some change and mentioned the police are already on site. I gave the money back, saying thank you, but I won’t need the money (change) since the police are already here.

Without the facts, all kinds of assumptions are made. The only person with the facts is me, as I was there in person.

This same principle applies to all situations, hence the reason I don’t personally judge the guru based on other people’s conclusions which could be wrong just as Jesse’s are here.

My own personal experience with him is that he is against violence, and would not tolerate any violence against a member of the sangat. Certainly not premeditated, unprovoked, bullying by any sevadar at any level.

The idea that he accepts this behaviour as okay, I find impossible to believe.

Of course I could be wrong, but that’s my firm belief based on the limited time I have spent with him in the Q&A sessions.

@Juan,
I don’t see any evidence for taking that position. I believe the sevadars in question acted on their own authority clearly against RSSB policy.

@Georgy
Apart from this incident, I agree violence is not the theme of the day there.
I am not saying people are being punched in the face all over Haynes Park. Most likely this was the only instance of a satsangi being punched In the face maybe for quite a while.

Some are obviously saying I instigated it by breaking the rules. But keep this in perspective. I didn’t go there looking for trouble. But the sevadars obviously went out of their way to create trouble.

I feel it’s already going too far on the first day by keeping me waiting for three hours for my phone.

Incidentally the police were there so they can verify the facts. It’s wasnt just a report made after the event.

Also thousands of people and the sevadars at the information point can all verify this. There is zero chance of this being fabricated.
Same with the second day. One sevadar saw me being dragged away by six sevadars and just turned a blind eye.

I said to him “This is seva, look” as they continued to drag me to the hall / building on the left.

Hi Amar,
I have too much respect for GSD to retaliate. I trust that he will take the appropriate action. If I retaliated, it would only make it worse.

As he often says
Rab de ghar dir ho Sakde ahneir nahin.

Spence wrote (above):

Basically, I think that, if you didn't provoke violence, either by verbal abuse, or physical threat (like swinging first) you should file a formal police complaint. This is, after all, unprovoked physical violence, right? And then a judge can take an objective view and render a judgment.

Clearly I didn’t provoke violence as I was on the way out of the Haynes Park site.

I did firmly stand up for my rights by telling them “this is assault” when six people were grabbing onto me and not allowing me to walk away peacefully.

Never once did I say anything to further provoke the situation on day 1 or day 2.

I was not in a position to anyway. I am not a violent person so any accusations against me will fall on deaf ears. I am known to many of the older satsangis.

Since childhood all I wanted was to get to “meet god” who I thought lived in Sach khand.

Violence in any form even verbal threats are against my nature which is why the false allegation against me that I said “I will kick you in the nuts” would never hold up.

All I wanted was my phone back, so why on earth would I say “I will kick you in the nuts?”

What could that possibly achieve? Anyone hearing the story can clearly see that the sevadar who stated that, was forced to say it to save his seva. I had already spoken to him earlier and he regretted even taking action as now he could lose his Seva.

Babaji will get to the root of this in no time. No sevadar will lie to Babaji because what would be the purpose of Saving their seva by lying to the guru himself.

With the noted exception of the sevadars that punched me in the face. I feel they would think nothing of lying to Babaji

If they had any love or respect for Babaji they would never have carried out this act. It goes directly against his orders.

At the end they said “okay, nobody saw anything. Nothing happened” like a bunch of juvenile gangsters.

They have forgotten that god is omnipresent and obviously don’t believe in karma or that the dera was build on a foundation of love.

I personally can’t understand how these people can be doing seva for so long, as mostly they appeared to be in their fifties or older, and still be capable of this action.

Babaji said to me the Sunday before
“Everything happens in hukam”
Nothing happens outside of the will.
So I fully accepted it as it was happening. No disturbance, no reaction.
I simply watched it all unfolding. Nothing I could do anyway. Six against one.
I just watched it all unfolding almost as if it was happening to someone else.

It’s easy to say “all is in hukam” but the real test is if you say it while being punched in the face


"Without the facts, all kinds of assumptions are made. The only person with the facts is me, as I was there in person. "

Well, you, the police, dozens of sevadars, and any number of satsangis who were potentially in the area too, but yeah. Only you. One person. And maybe a few hundred people. But aside from those other hundreds, it was just one. But they probably will agree with you wholeheartedly.

"which could be wrong just as Jesse’s are here. "

What's with the illiteracy here? I ask questions and two people accuse me of misstating facts. I don't care about facts anyway, but I'm just saying "how did Osho and his extremely important father contact the police" isn't much of a statement. You wrote your "story" in a bunch of scattered clips. Sorry for not perfectly memorizing the whole plot.

"My own personal experience with him is that he is against violence, and would not tolerate any violence against a member of the sangat."

"my firm belief based on the limited time I have spent with him in the Q&A sessions. "

Have you ever been at his house? You just said you haven't so what are these "personal" experiences you talk about? Asking questions in front of a massive audience isn't "time with him." It's time in a very controlled setting with a professional speaker doing his job. Also, you're not a member of the sangat, strictly speaking.

But nobody cares, least of all myself. We just want to hear about people getting beat up, having their phones stolen,police arrests, and important family members raising issues that nobody will care about and then all the ensuing complaints about injustice that arise after your protests fail.

Bring the drama. Get your attention. We're all served what we want this way.


So I fully accepted it as it was happening. No disturbance, no reaction.
I simply watched it all unfolding. Nothing I could do anyway. Six against one.
I just watched it all unfolding almost as if it was happening to someone else.

It’s easy to say “all is in hukam” but the real test is is if you say it while being punched in the face.

I had a similar test long ago in the states. With my shiny new letter of
approval in hand, I appeared for seva at GSD's venue. The seva
intake committee bizarrely begin to treat me like one of Kal's
agents, summarily rejected my credentials, and insisted I take a
humble seat among the unblessed, non-sevadar throngs. Arguing
coolly, I went on making my case.

Then, one goon, er, sevadar, put his hand on my arm to escort me
away in shame. I resisted and pulled out of his grasp firmly but non-
violently. No Kung-fu fantasies even entered my head. It was then
a soft-spoken sevadar appeared and overruled them. Vindication.
I was blessed again.

Sigh, not for long. Images of fistfights started to dance before my
eye as I assumed my sevadar station. Pounding my tormentors in
my imagination, I had somehow managed to snatch "defeat from
the jaws of victory". The battle is always within.

Hi Osho. I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't put too much faith in in GSD taking interest in this. I would think he'll tell the management committee in Haynes to make the story go away. What else could he possibly do? Maybe that sevadar loses his seva...

I wasn't there but you were, literally, in the middle of it. Keep us informed of what comes up.

Jesse writes
“ I ask questions and two people accuse me of misstating facts. I don't care about facts anyway, but I'm just saying "how did Osho and his extremely important father contact the police" isn't much of a statement.”

Firstly my father wasn’t there. He’s dead. I didn’t say anything about “extremely important”, you did. I just said he was initiated when RSSB was almost unheard of in the UK. 1962/63. So many of the older satsangis know him well. And they know me since I was a child.

If you don’t care about facts what is the basis of your opinions?

You called it an “unlikely story” based on your incorrect notions and apparent contradictions in the story, none of which are real because in your mind you have the answers to the questions you pose.

Now you know that I didn’t need to phone. They were already on site. Whether the first day incident happened is not even under debate. That’s unquestionable. Police are the evidence.
They were personally there asking for the phone and witness to all the stories being made up about why it cannot be returned immediately.

The other thing was, I waited calmly without causing any scenes for three hours for my phone. I took the opportunity to connect with and meet some of the older satsangis. Not the behaviour of a violent person.

@Amar

If Haynes monitors this site, they will already know by now. I really don’t believe GSD would take no action over a member of the sangat being assaulted in this manner while he is on his way leaving Haynes Park, and has made no threats to anyone. My sister and brother in law were witnesses to that because they asked the sevadar who was holding me to let me go.
I said “I don’t want to stay for satsang if this is how I am going to be treated. I am leaving now”
I then walked away, towards the front gates. Then the six sevadars forcibly stopped me from leaving. This was a premeditated and unprovoked attack on a person who did nothing at all to create this.
The reason? Because the ego of the higher up sevadar was hurt because this guy (me) dared to challenge his “ban” by turning up at satsang the next day.

Two years ago Brian wrote an article about “egos gone wild” at Haynes park. It was the same people who dealt with my situation back then. Only it was with folded hands at the time, no violence.
I immediately obeyed their request. A violent person would not have.

Osho, do you have autism? I'm not even asking as an insult. But your inability to separate the literal from the metaphorical or comical is really hard to understand.

You talked about your family and how they're respected or something along those lines, and there is an expression that's sort of a cliche in movies and stuff that is "do you know who my father is?" I'm not literally saying your father is going to do anything. It was just strange that your family's respectability was even mentioned because you're talking about a cult, some shady volunteers, and a phone. Most people wouldn't mention their family in such circumstances.

I’m not saying what happened is impossible , but if you going to attend an event like this with the concerted and conscious intent of disobeying rules that have been clearly set out - what do you expect?

You are dealing with human beings who are defending what they consider to be most precious - why don’t you simply attend the event and obey the rules? Or if you don’t want to obey the rules, don’t attend. Who is really the goon, the instigator or the reactor? I don’t really understand the gripe.

When the sign says “Keep off the grass” and you take a dump on the lawn - what do you expect ? Tea and biscuits ?

I simply don’t understand the logic of various ex-satsangis on this site.

>>When the sign says “Keep off the grass” and you take a dump on the lawn - what do you expect ? Tea and biscuits ? <<

One can expect to be rebuked, reprimanded, get a fine, be arrested, for which just ONE officer would be sufficient but 6 and be punched in the face???

MIS-use of legal power is just that … not willing to address it in the end corrupts any institution be it the police, or religious institution etc.

osho robbins.... Thumbs up to you. what you say makes sense.

@Osho It wasn't an assumption that you called the police, it's what you yourself said, quoted below. Keep your story straight, eh?

"So I said I would calk the police as this was theft of my phone.

I did in fact call the police exactly as promised. The police explained to them that they have no right to hold onto my phone without my permission."

George

Your master says you must live within the law of the land. Practice what you preach

Trust me if they had done that to me. I may have gone looking for them outside the scared grounds...

Be careful my friend in how you are reading what Osho has said. No one has the right to hit another.

@osho,
As interesting as your story is, how do we know it is true?

You were clearly motivated to break their rules by bringing in your phone and then recording? Was it just so you could write another post on this site?
They told you that you were not allowed to come back again yet you did? You were seeking out confrontation, what was your true motivation?
I'm a Sikh gentleman and in our temple it states you must respect the rules by covering your head, removing shoes etc etc, if someone was to break those rules then they too would be removed.

I don't really see what your complaint is, you went to someone's house, disrespected them and they told you to leave.

Life is fair.

Kind regards,
R. Singh

@Arjuna

"Be careful my friend in how you are reading what Osho has said. No one has the right to hit another.

Trust me if they had done that to me. I may have gone looking for them outside the scared grounds..."

I take it you would have had a stern word with them as 'no one has the right to hit another' ...

Georgy Porgy wrote: "This sounds bullshit to me" & "I’m not saying what happened is impossible"

"Georgy", I think we need to talk.

If I recall correctly, you have claimed on numerous occasions to have no connection to RSSB & Gurinder, incongruously & imo laughably trying to paint yourself as some sort of independent, objective & impartial judge of all the fraudulent Baba's goings on! To be frank, I am not sure which is the more absurd & ridiculous suggestion, that you know more about quantum biology than world renowned physicists and biologists whose careers are centred around quantum biological research, or that you have no connection to RSSB & Gurinder? It really is a close call! :)

Come on now bro/sis, I don't think there's a single soul in the entire multi-verse that is buying that crock of shit you're not connected to RSSB! If there is even the slightest hint of truth in these claims of yours, it is beyond obvious what you really mean is that you are related to older satsangis & are too young to be initiated yet, or only recently decided to finally get initiated into the family religion? My friend, you cannot even muster the slightest bit of honesty here in regards who you are, your history and your real association with Gurinder, yet you presumably imagine you are part of the 0.0000000000001% of infinite souls that are destined to reach "Sach" khand via the businessman Baba in the news for fraud on an obscene scale, death threats etc? Do you see something funny about this? WAKE UP!!

As for "Osho R", he was probably holding (as a speaker, not listener) satsangs at his local centre when you was just a twinkle in Sat Purush's eye. He has been going to satsang and having long conversations with your Baba for well over 20 years, and this has been witnessed by many, many thousands of people......I haven't been to satsang for over 10 years, and about once or twice in 20 years, and even I have heard Osho having long chats with Gugu about the "ONE" on multiple occasions! Osho has released youtube videos of his actual self, discussing "Sant Mat 2.0", so whilst he doesn't use his actual full name (as I don't my surname), it is clear he is not hiding behind silly monikors, pretending to be someone else, pretending to be multiple people etc. I personally believe he is simply too honest to do that here. His family connections to RSSB go as far back as probably anyone's in the UK and he is known by many people. There is a poster here called "Chris" (MBW on the RSS forum), who is also well known online for being an RSSB apologist & never says a bad word about his religion or Pope, and he has met both me, and seen Osho R speaking at Haynes on numerous occasions (to offset the suggestion by 777 on another thread that there are "70 Oshos" and has anybody even heard him ask a question at Haynes).

Further, Osho hasn't even told the full story and not provided any details, which may be a smart move. I don't want to say too much, but I can assure you it was absolutely no surprise to me the persons involved, because I heard similar stories about them from 25 years ago, actually proudly told by satsangis in hushed tones (but deeply troubled me to hear them......you probably wasn't even born then, right?). I can't help but mention, perhaps hint, that I'm not surprised people with THE most intimate access to these sorts of religious-leader "gurus" tend to be generally very unpleasant and unspiritual people. THAT is the benefit of physical access to the "Satguru", it seems......I think it's very lucky there are a lot of very sincere and genuine seekers out there who don't have access to the Baba, and instead only to the projections of their own loving hearts & minds. I think Spence has written very well on that, recently.

Personally, I think Osho's notion that Gugu will do anything about it is deeply mistaken. I would be surprised if this is the first time their behaviour has been mentioned to him. We have had posters come here and mention missing people at Beas being swept under the rug, and other such claims about nothing being done about claims of abuse etc. I find them eminently believable, myself, but each to their own on that. I would say though, I don't think there's any question that some of the people Gurinder keeps closest to him are unpleasant "goons". Rationalise that away as the master keeping his most needy disciples close to him, but I think in the real world it reveals something else.

Finally, Georgy wrote "I dunno where you get all this GIHF claptrap from."

It's in the thousands of books sold in the book store, right outside the satsang tent Gugu was sat in! You really should try exploring & learning more! :)

Cheers!

Roger Singh, if they had simply told him to leave, Osho wouldn't be writing about this. Osho alleges he was mistreated by 6 sevadars and punched in the face, with witnesses.

Not sure what Osho expects to come out of this as far as an apology, or removal of a sevadar... Not sure what his end game on this is.

@ Roger Singh

I would have had a word with them but then again they would not have picked on me in the first place as I have been trained to handle myself to protect myself and others.

All the best

What happened on day 1 (Friday) was already taking things too far. Making me wait 3 hours for my phone.

Anyone who questions the validity of what I have stated needs to know the police were witnesses on the first day and I informed the same officers the second day. Then I filed a full police report, but further police action is on hold while I give RSSB the chance to sort this out in-house.
The irony is: I was “banned” by the sevadars making a false allegation of me threatening to “kick the sevadar”

So that means they said I made the threat.

However, the next day they have carried out an UNPROVOKED attack on someone who is walking towards the exit to leave ( I have witnesses). They can’t make up anything against me this time because my brother in law and sister were witnesses of that conversation, as I walked off to leave Haynes.

So they STOPPED me from leaving (6 sevadars grabbing me physically) then took me to a quiet private area (a hall on the left) then punched me in the Face.

Incidentally there were some sevadars there who saw me being led off, so any detailed enquiry will show I am being truthful.

An alleged threat is grounds for a ban.

So then actually carrying out an unprovoked and premeditated attack on a person who is already leaving Haynes Park deserves more than a ban for the 6 people involved.
Or is it one rule for me and a different one for them?

This is not an act of bravery or an act of self defence.

This is what cowards do. Six against one defenceless person who hurt the ego of one of them.

Hi Osho
I just wanted to say a few things to you
Firstly why do you think it was okay to film as you know that’s against the rules
Secondly your acting so big about this like you some boss
And lastly it’s good that you are banned
Because personally I don’t believe anything your saying as it’s pretty rare for a a group of Sevadars to take you to a place where you guys can’t be seen and then to supposedly Punch you in the face.

The sevadars heard the bell sound and thought it meant Round One, time to come out swinging.

@Roger Singh

You wrote:

“You were clearly motivated to break their rules by bringing in your phone and then recording? Was it just so you could write another post on this site?
They told you that you were not allowed to come back again yet you did? You were seeking out confrontation, what was your true motivation?”

1. Plenty of people bring in their phone into the back area of the tent. It’s not exactly crime of the century. What harm did I do? How many people did I hurt?

2. The incident created this post, otherwise I might have been writing about my good friend “The ONE”

3. Please tell me what gives a sevadar the authority to make a false allegation against me and then tell me I am banned. Is that seva? Is that why that sevadar is in a position of authority?
Do you not consider that an abuse of his position?
And what does it say about his honesty? Obviously he knows he is lying and making another sevadar lie. Will he lie to his guru if he asks him?
The other sevadar will almost certainly admit he lied.
This is a serious breach of trust.

4. Exactly how was I seeking a confrontation? I didn’t believe and I still maintain he had no grounds to ban me. He made up a false allegation against me. All I wanted to do was attend satsang, not seek a confrontation.

Never in a million years would I have imagined this was even possible.

Why was I attacked when I was in the process of leaving Haynes Park?

Nobody with a rational mind can possibly justify that action.

This is premeditated, unprovoked assault.

If I had retaliated, who knows how far this would have gone? If he had followed up with further punches or kicks and if I had visible signs of being attacked, it was game over for him so maybe he would not have let me leave at all.

Maybe I would have been a missing person statistic.

This is serious. If no action is taken then it’s time for any member of the sangat to realise satsang is not a safe place to go anymore.

"If no action is taken then it’s time for any member of the sangat to realise satsang is not a safe place to go anymore." I like many others are on your side. But where is the filed police report for assault? This needs to be posted here and then to news outlets. akin to the Andy Ngo incident in Portland. Were you injured? Did you seek medical care at a hospital? Will you be going to criminal court to press charges? Were their witnesses? Again, many of us are sympathetic to your story and want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but evidence is called for before any of us can say satsang isn't a safe place to go.

@ :The sevadars heard the bell sound and thought it meant Round One, time to come out swinging.:

Posted by: anami

Looooooool.

Osho must have a solid chim to take a punch or the sevadars there punch like girls . Lol

@ Osho if you want I will train you free . Brazilian jiu-jitsu OR my favourite that I learnt in the forces: Krav Maga.


If "Jesse" had any decency at all, he would apologize to OshoRobbins.

Hey Arjuna how long do you train bjj?

@James
1. When did I say I was filming?
What exactly is there to films there?
I recorded 5 mins of the English satsang speaker because what he was saying sounded interesting.
Is that a major crime?

2. Firstly - I am not banned. The corrupt sevadar forced another sevadar to lie in order to find some grounds to ban me.
You think that is acceptable for a sevadar in a trusted position to that ?

3. It happened exactly as I have stated, that’s why I filed a police report. Many people saw the evidence.

4. You think it’s okay to stop a person leaving Haynes park and instigate a fight of 6 against one? And then make further threats?

@J
Why do you think they dragged me to a quiet private area?

You really think they are going to punch me in public?

But some people saw me being taken away by the six sevadars

Krav Maga is better for self defense, BJJ is best if you want to fight professionally

Some of the sevadors at Haynes act strange, last year when I went to the National satsangs, I would be walking to the tent and one security male sevador would giving me dirty looks every time he saw me. I even smiled at him but he still looked like he wanted to fight me. He was quite a big guy, over 6ft and quite stocky.
Now I'm 6ft5 and weighed 215-220Ibs at the time so maybe he felt insecure

Satsangis 2 Osho Robbins 0

Osho
When these 6 satsangis hit you, did they threaten or warn you to stay away from Haynes?

Firstly the sevadar forces another sevadar to lie in order to save his seva.

That itself is serious.

Obviously he knew I was telling the truth because he told the other Sevadar to lie.

Then he says “Who do I believe? You, or the sevadar?”

He already knew the truth. He also knew he just wanted to find a reason to say I am banned.

No violence at this point. But he had already broken more rules than I had at that point.

The events of the next day take the while thing to a new level,

If Babaji rounds up all the sevadars the truth will come out unless of course they would even lie to their guru, in which case why are they even doing seva?

Osho was it a slap or a closed fist punch?
Also there seems to be quite a bit of history of you and the sevadars In the past. Read post below when you instigated them as well. While I do want to believe you I feel there is more to this story your not telling.

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2013/08/sevadar-egos-gone-wild-at-rssbs-haynes-park-center.html

Hi Osho.
My opinion....
Assuming your story is pretty accurate and youve blogged it out quite well here and feel justifiably abused and the need to look out for others in case it happens to them.
If it were( me ) at this point I would stop the discussion on line so you can save your integrity and not get the bloggers too involved ....
Then after its resolved however the law sets it of course we will love to hear the outcome.
You need to relax and do your legal work and keep yourself centered and focused and ask for ( inner guidance ) on what steps to take.
This way it remains on a legal level not turning into another brawl online.
Just my caring opinion..
Chy

Osho you should learn a Sockton slap...

Osho next time if you run into sevadars ego...tell them

https://youtu.be/jqakPlTdc7s

If Todd had any decency at all he'd apologize to me. For the crime of being born with a call center name and demanding apologies for no reason from and to people that don't concern him.

Osho is a drama queen, bro. I wouldn't apologize for anything I said to him. If 6 grown men beat him up I wanna see pictures of his face. I think nothing happened and he's seeking attention as usual. Time will tell.

And do you know who my father is, Todd? Best show some respect.

https://youtu.be/W7-roiI5Vqc

"2. Firstly - I am not banned. The corrupt sevadar forced another sevadar to lie in order to find some grounds to ban me.
You think that is acceptable for a sevadar in a trusted position to that ?"

So you're not banned, but someone tried banning you. Then an emotional appeal via rhetorical questing for James to take sides and simply believe that you were in the right, and that they were in the wrong.

None of us were there. Maybe you did something shadier than you're admitting to here, and maybe they were given the authority to ban anyone who breaks rules. Maybe they've been requested to make judgment calls and ban anyone they want for whatever reason they want.

It's not uncommon for organizations to give that power to its staff.

You claim you were punched in the face. Let's see it.

And what's with you getting in trouble in late August at the satsang spot, Osho?

Brain posted your other story on August 19, 2013.

Is it lunar cycles or something?

"The sevadars heard the bell sound and thought it meant Round One,"
Anami, this is classic.
ROFLMAO

Osho at first I believed your story but then I googled osho Haynes and the number of stories that come up written by you about your run in with the sevadars I can’t even count. They are obviously not made up as they are written by you. Yikes you sound like the boy who cried wolf.

Another osho vs sevadar incident in 2015. I see a pattern.
https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2015/08/index.html

Jesse, GSD is typically in the UK 2nd week of August to the end of August. He typically ends his "world tour" there. Seems to be his second home.

Dear Osho,

First of all, no matter what, I would not support the physical violence at all.
And I feel that shouldn't have taken place.

However, I also feel that whatever has happened afterwards has no essence, it's just the repercussions of your not so wise actions.

You committed a mistake, your stance didn't appear apologetic,
instead it appears that it was confrontational that "hey, I broke your security"
thereby giving more frustration to the sevadaars revealing that they didn't do their duty correctly. And as if it was not enough and you ice it up with police complaint.

It appears that you sort of exaggerated the matter as well, where when you were found guilty, you could have simply resolved it by apologising (which you said you did) - and then simply waiting for the Satsang to over and receive back your phone instead of threatening them with police complaint.
After all it was you who were at the fault as per the decorum of the place.

It was just like when we used commit mistakes by bringing sports goods in our classroom..
and when teacher noticed, they confiscated the items in the staff room for the whole day and asked us to collect it only after school hours with an apology, because we were disrupting the decorum of an academic class where sports items made no sense and distracted others.

Also you mentioned earlier that your phone was on airplane mode.
That argument is not valid one.
So if they put up a guideline: "Phones allowed in airplane mode"
You think it can work? how will it be possible for sevadaars to ensure they all
have it on airplane mode? And how many will keep the promise?
You did not keep the promise of bringing the phone, you think everyone will keep it on airplane mode?
You did keep it on airplane, but that is not possibly a generalised guideline.

We are cribbing here that it was not a big crime to bring a phone. If a blast happens inside satsang center with a mobile phone, we would crib that the security sevadaars didn't perform their duty correctly.

Don't prove their faults, prove yours.

I would suggest instead of wasting such precious days of yours by getting into
legal about this, just go back and meet all of them you had altercations with and just
say "I am sorry for all what had happened".
It will relax your mind and will invoke inner love.

Jesse wrote,

Do you know who my father is? Twice

I bet it's Donald Trump

Manjit wrote,

We have had posters come here and mention missing people at Beas being swept under the rug, and other such claims about nothing being done about claims of abuse etc. I find them eminently believable, myself, but each to their own on that.

Curious to know more about this bit.

@one initiated
I did wait for three hours to get my phone back.
If I wish to leave I should be allowed to leave with my phone.
That is classified as theft. The sevadar is not allowed to keep my phone without my permission.

One initiated you say Osho apologizes, do you not think the sevadar should be the one apologizing?

Your logic is nonsensical. Here's Osho's apology, according to you: "I apologize for getting punched in the face. I'll make sure it doesn't happen again."

This is not about the phone, it's about him getting manhandled and punched in the face, while leaving the site, according to him.

Where is the accountability of the sevadar?

I called the police over (they were already onsite) to get them to help get my phone back so I could leave.

Why was my phone not returned to me immediately when I said I want to leave?

I believe they tried to get into it because they first said its in the IT Dept
Also illegal.

A far cry from the spiritual path.

Maharaj charan Singh said its best to stay away from satsang if it deteriorates to this level.

I may well take his advice and leave everyone to make up their own minds.

Just walk away and never look back as really its no longer my concern.

Who cares whether anyone believes what I have reported or not. I know the truth. That is all that matters.

Newsflash: Bollywood announces a new comedy soap coming in 2020.
First reports say it will be called "As the Fists Fly" in homage to the iconic
U.S. soap "As the World Turns". Filming is scheduled in Haynes Park and
Beas India early next year.

Members of the beleaguered Dhillon family caught up in an Indian
corruption scandal in Beas, have agreed to several cameo roles.
Several RSSB followers -all with martial arts backgrounds- in Haynes
Park and other locales are in negotiations with film makers as well.
They declined to comment due to ongoing litigation and privacy
clauses.

Dear Amar,

Surely, we all should strive to find sense in our own comments.
I am trying that too.


Osho,

"If I wish to leave I should be allowed to leave with my phone. "
I agree, that's the normal practice around all Satsang centers.

however, this case was a bit different.

Obviously, teachers keeping hold of the sports goods could nowhere be tagged as "theft"
that was just a lite punishment. kids must learn their lesson and not repeat the offence. It's in the best interest of kids' own future itself.

You waited for 3 hours only after bringing the police in the picture, or just simply waited when they asked you to wait?
Waiting after enforcing the law would be different condition.

I hesitate to mention, because we are all full of flaws, but for the sake of discussions here,
your ego played wild there when you got caught red handed, you just wanted to flee from there and didn't want to face them any further.
Of course how could you left the scene without picking up your phone.

Why couldn't you just keep attending to the Satsang (the main motive you came here - the recording was always secondary). You could have just keep on attending to the Satsang and afterwards softly would have dealt with situation - but being hurt square in the ego - you took opposite steps. Probably, anyone would have fallen similar after being caught.
Who likes to be ashamed once, and twice again after 3 hours of waiting with that feeling.

but I feel for you for the bad feelings and experiences you've been through, all these could have been avoided, had you put control on your ego rightly.
I hope you will find peace soon.

"Do you know who my father is? Twice "

I said it more than twice, and I'm gonna wear that joke out even more.

If you knew who my father was, you would treat me with more respect.

Dungeness, I haven't been to the movies in years. But if your film idea comes to fruition, or any RS film, I'll wait in line for a day to see it. Hopefully it will include a brawling satsangi, maybe boxing his way through a series of sevadars to earn his initiation.


Hopefully it will include a brawling satsangi, maybe boxing his way through a series of sevadars to earn his initiation.

I like it. If it were my call, Rocky's "Gotta Fly Now" soundtrack would
play as our hero boxes his way up Satsang Ghar steps.

@ one initiated

You wrote
"You waited for 3 hours only after bringing the police in the picture, or just simply waited when they asked you to wait?
Waiting after enforcing the law would be different condition."

But I only called the police into the matter when the sevadar point blank refused to return my phone.

I would quite happily have stayed. This is only abbreviated account. so I will explain why now. The sevadar claimed to have deposited my phone and also said it will go to IT DEPT for examination, which is illegal.

I knew they were not going to return my phone easily, and I was with my cousin and he had a child with him.

I didn't want him to have to wait for me after satsang. Those are the type of rules I care about.

So I decided to forego satsang attendance for this purpose.

They still refused to return it.

So I agreed to stay as long as I could pick up my phone immediately after the satsang.

I asked exactly where to pick it from so they sent a sevadar to show me.

Once I got there, more lies. They said they havent got the phone.

That was when I called the police because this was now beyond a joke.

Also, one-initiated, we are not at school. Children at school don't have the same rights. Even so, you cannot punch them either.

By the way, it was a closed hand punch, not a slap for whoever asked.

If I had not asked the police to intervene I am sure I would still be waiting now.

The police were a bit lame, as they got taken in by their lies.

If sevadars are allowed to lie, then this explains how things got to this level.

Then I agree with many of Spence's observations that "its a slippery slope"

I am not a respecter of rules. I just make sure I don't harm anyone. Or infringe on their rights. I act according to the situation.

The sevadars put their rules ABOVE the law and don't care about humanity, other peoples feelings, or the law.

What happened to the teaching about
"Dye your prayer mat in alcohol rather than hurt a person's feelings"

For a Muslim they cannot bring alcohol near the prayer mat.

So in summary

I care about what matters: love, respect, nonviolence and The law.

The sevadars care about rules rules rules and don't care about people and don't care about the law.

Which is better - you the reader decide for yourself.

By my actions, not a single person was hurt. Nobody's rights were infringed.
The recording was for me to listen back to later. No harm to anyone.

That's what I care about.

Anyways right or wrong,there is love but sometimes also ''powergames'' in Sewa.
I think everywhere there are powergames.
So everybody goes around with that differently...
I am hurt a lot in earlier times also in Beas Dera..
I wrote a letter about that and indeed there was a difference aferwards.
But always new sewadars they have to learn also.
So it is good to mention things.
Look in your own inner why are you so hurt?
Also what is good for yourself in the first place to do.
It is anyway good to mention it,because everybody can always ''learn''(get insights)
Especially by looking in ''yourself'' to see what really happenes/happened and why..
We should not bow for people when not deserved..love yourself first..then we can really see others too.
imho( in my humble opinion)

@ One.

Osho has no need to apologise. You are wrong. So do you think people should have apologised to Hitler???

An eye for an eye bro if someone did that to me or my family . Honesty I would hurt them badly. Rs and mediate hard bro

Lol. All the best.

Jesse,

Respecting someone because of who his father is..... Come-on come up with something better bro..... I'm sure you can.

Not my style anyways though.But am always into trying something new.... So if you tell us all about him, maybe it might be a honor for all we measly being and who knows you might earn some brownie points oops respect I mean.

:) :)

S* says

Anyways right or wrong,there is love but sometimes also ''powergames'' in Sewa.

Totally wrong. It's only "powergames" in seva - everywhere and tons in Dera. It's at obnoxious levels.

One has to be a बेशरम and मोटी चमड़ी to survive in seva. Of course a hypocrite too. Thinking and questioning are often fatal (for one's seva). And then you have the super enthusiastic lowest level Sevadars who will blindly follow vigorously the oft completely distorted interpretation of of some rule drafted at 60 thousand feet ie Dera Secretariat.

Here is my apology.

I apologise for taking the phone in when it is against the rules.

I apologise for recording 5 minutes of the English speaker before the satsang.

I apologise for coming back to Haynes park after being banned.

I apologise for questioning the authority of the person who said I was banned.

I genuinely thought he did not have the authority to ban me. Maybe he did.

In which case I will not be attending Haynes park or any RSSB satsang centre again.

Not now not ever.

It’s not my job to reform RSSB or any person. I have enough trouble reforming myself.

It’s also not my concern.

I am walking away from the whole episode.

Osho you say "Maharaj charan Singh said its best to stay away from satsang if it deteriorates to this level.

I may well take his advice"

Had you really taken his advice back then there wouldn't have been any incidents between you and sevadars ever! You should seriously take his advice and stop going as it is you know more than anyone in the world about Santmat. Hey, where are you latest videos? I want to watch them as it.is funnier than Mr Bean!

Osho R wrote: "I care about what matters: love, respect, nonviolence and The law." & "A far cry from the spiritual path. Maharaj charan Singh said its best to stay away from satsang if it deteriorates to this level. I may well take his advice and leave everyone to make up their own minds. Just walk away and never look back as really its no longer my concern. Who cares whether anyone believes what I have reported or not. I know the truth. That is all that matters."

Brother, I wasn't going to comment again on this sad situation, but feel compelled to.

This is such an incredibly complex situation with multiple levels of meaning. I don't think many people here will understand the full complexity (or even care to) with all it's nuances and implications, and that perhaps includes me, you and everyone else too.

I feel for you on this one. Though I'm glad you appear to understand that people's opinions here don't matter at all, and that YOU know the truth as you experienced it, that the lesson was for YOU, and those like me who know you & appreciate your UNUSUAL honesty & sincerity.

I wouldn't take too seriously at all the scepticism, questions, doubts etc of those anonymous posters who come here, don't share a single fact about themselves, their history, their life etc, using blatantly made up names, initials etc, and expect anyone to care or believe THEM! In your posts here, and in person, you have revealed incredible amounts of your own history & background, and openly shared the most intimate and vulnerable moments of your life. In my opinion it is sad & shameful for completely anonymous posters to criticise, judge or abuse posters like yourself who have the honesty to share at least something from their own life and experiences. It's the easy, cheap & lazy way. Also quite cowardly, imo.

Most of it is no doubt motivated by dark tide of religious/cultic denialism, justification, rationalisation, hypocrisy etc. An irony I personally note is that many of these anonymous posters don't realise is that, I believe, you still deeply love & respect Gurinder yourself! Without exception, over the past several months you have either excused or refused to judge Gugu about any of the numerous "allegations" made against him and his cronies (see, your very real experience is now merely an "allegation". Reality is a slippery sod :). Your passion is discussing the "ONE" (that is generally considered the end-goal of most metaphysical systems humanity has known, and that certainly includes RS) with Gurinder. People here will not understand that, Osho, they think this passion of yours is all about ego. They cannot differentiate between a playful, mischievous spirit, and the sinister, disproportionate, illegal, thuggish, wannabe gangster spirit of Gurinder's cronies (not random sevadars, CRONIES - go google the meaning if anyone doesn't know it).

Imo, in the genuine mystical path, there is a strong element of the "trickster", of humour, mischief, provocation. But it is all done with a deep underlying spirit of love, compassion and a passion for truth that the average religious seeker will not understand or comprehend as it is alien to them. I personally believe that is the spirit with which Osho R attends satsang, and with deep respect and admiration speaks to Gurinder.

The response Osho received from Gugu's CRONIES was disproportionate, illegal, sinister, thuggish & completely unjustified on any level in any context LET ALONE at the satsang of an alleged Sant!!! It really is beyond ridiculous.

Yes, Osho, this isn't a lesson for the readers here.......it is a lesson for YOU!!! Now you yourself are facing the tide of religious denial, justification, absurd accusations etc! Now YOU must face whatever action or inaction Gugu will take.........

.......Personally, I see a pattern in the disturbing turn of events at RSSB and with Gurinder since at least his cancer scare. There can be no doubt. The doors of grace have closed, my friend. You've seen the thugs in action. There is no playfulness there, no interest in "Sach", no love, just religious belief & devotion.

The readers here won't know, but you are honorable in your absolving Gugu of any knowledge or even involvement in this. You are a good devotee of his in that sense! I am not so sure, myself. But perhaps complete freedom is now just around the corner for you? Again, you wrote:

"A far cry from the spiritual path. Maharaj charan Singh said its best to stay away from satsang if it deteriorates to this level. I may well take his advice and leave everyone to make up their own minds. Just walk away and never look back as really its no longer my concern."

Peace & love my brother!

A Fan,
Incidents occur at the venue. Someone is at fault. Either or both and incidents have fixes if handled appropriately.

But satsang is not about incidents It's contents to the best of my knowledge have never been lowly - unless it's the case with speakers in the UK

And thus I refuse to believe that Hazur (and especially Him) would have said it's best to stay away from Satsangs.

What did he usually say at the end (even Babaji says it) - Agla satsang 26 January (eg) nu hoga. Jo koi aana chahata hai badi kushi nal aaye. From his perspective it's all up to us whether we want to or not attend.

Divinity is in our deeds, not our beliefs, religions or rules.

Come on brother Osho, why are you lamenting so much?
Ask Brian, he will tell you:
LIFE IS FAIR
and Baba Sawan Singh Ji, as you surely know,has written a book with the title:
MY SUBMISSION
Nevertheless, nobody is perfect and we all are struggling souls..
Love to you!

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