« Good simple comment policy | Main | Fated to become who we are, each of us is marvelously unique »

August 03, 2019

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Osho Robbins wrote:

That is not how I see it.

This is how I see it:
< The human being is experimenting to ascertain the truth of his own consciousness by applying a meditation technique that aims for and requires mental purity, discrimination and stillness. >

"Guru is only a guide" LOL that is f'ing rich. He's a guy who sits on a stage repeating some of the most inane spiritual cliches imaginable.

To say he guides people is more absurd than claims to magical powers. We can verify quite easily that he guides nobody. There's no chance anyone in India can even ask him a question as you did or receive guidance of any kind. Unless he specifically said he guides his disciples who reside in foreign and wealthy countries.

And while he speaks the words "i have no powers" he still prints books that say the guru actually does have powers, but he's not allowed to say he has powers. So really this is all a game.

I can't believe you buy this stuff still. It's so sad and such an insult to present this charlatan's words as having been updated or to be more humble and honest. It's the same as it ever was.

@Chris
>> Yes he did. He himself decided to act as guru. <<
You may be right but from the videos I have seen and books I have read I don’t think he made himself a Guru but again I may be wrong.

He did give “Naam Mantra” to some people when they kept insisting but then he stopped and said it’s really not needed.

>> He definitely played that game. I can provide evidence if you require it.
Again I am not aware of it. I like him but I don’t consider him my “Guru.”

>> But he became furious and then went into a sulk of silence for two days when someone called his bluff

I can believe this. He was very feisty and had quite a temper. He used to get angry and throw people out of his room. He wanted people to drop all their fairy tales and fancy stories. If people used to keep asking him about their “stupid theories" he used to start shouting ‘Kalpana Kalpana Kalpana Kalpana” (Kalpana = imagination) and will stop answering their questions.

>>He encouraged people to print books of his translated teachings.
Yes he did and I am glad he did. This is how I could read his fantastic teachings 😊

>> And successors have appeared after his death, just as he appeared after the death of his guru.
Yes people like Ramesh Balsekar (another guy I admire very much) and others regard him as their Guru but he did not appoint any successor or start a gaddi as such.
The people who were influenced by him regard him as his “Guru”
They use the word “Guru” more as a guide and not in the sant mat type of perfect-living-master and god-in-human-form Guru.

To Daljit.
Balsekar used his position of successor to Niz to profit financially and to abuse followers sexually. Read just one of many accounts about it here: http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/ramesh_balsekar.html

Niz himself said some apparently insightful things, sure. But so did Balsekar. So did Rajneesh. So did Sai Baba of Puttarpathi, etc., etc.
And Niz justified eating meat and believed that and his severe nicotine habit did him “no harm”. The reality was that at the end of his life it caused him great suffering and was the primary cause of his death from throat cancer. I think a lesson can be drawn from that. If a person can not even understand life on its most basic mundane level, what reliance can be placed upon their perspective of the transmundane?

Niz had a craving and a desire to the extent of it being a full-blown addiction.
Believers try to seperate that from Niz by making an intellectual distinction between what he experienced as the primal-Self and his mind-body. But isn't that all conceptual projection? Isn't that an artificial intellectual distinction to protect an object of belief in a cherished authority and ironically has become a vehicle for the self-preservation of I-ness which we have made it serve?

Niz lost his composure AND his peace of mind when a westerner Alaxander Smit confronted him for the contradiction of saying he was a nobody while posing as a spiritual authority and 'realised' human and as an example of "perfection".

Niz taught: “This is the role of the realised people — to set an example of perfection for others to admire and love”.

I tell all this with nothing to attack and nothing to defend.
Just trying to see things as they are without projection.
Without filters. Without belief systems needing protection.
Nothing is broken. Nothing to mend.
Things just are as they are.
But I do have an expectation.
And that is that an 'enlightened’ person is not controlled by their emotions, or desires, or conditioning.
My definition of 'enlightened' is someone not at the mercy of their physicality,
nor driven by their psychology.
Very simply, my expectation of enlightenment is saintliness:
An enlightened person will be saintly with all that entails.
If they do not have control of themselves, their moods, their desires, their physical urges, etc., then that is not enlightenment in my book.
If they are more concerned with themselves and their own interests than those around them, then however much they are in the now, or aware of the Self, or whatever, they are not what I consider to be enlightened. Enlightened must reflect in action not just words. Walking the walk, not just learning the talk like Ramesh Balsekar. People can have all kinds of shifts of consciousness, and have all kinds of profound insights. But if they are still behaving like randy adolescents let loose in a paradise of unbridled self-centred hedonism like Rajneesh and Adi Da did, then that is NOT enlightenment. That is just exaltation of heightened egocentricity with perverted wisdom, style and charisma.

If someone [Niz] loses it because someone else told them to shut up, and then went into a strop for two days, until they received a 12 page letter telling them they are still the dude, then what kind of 'nobody' is that?

I prefer ideals of enlightenment like JC on the cross saying 'forgive them Father for they know not what they do'.
Like Guru Amar Das when he was kicked off the gaddi while delivering satsang by his Guru's son, massaging his feet saying that his old bones must have caused his guru's son's toes pain. Etc., etc.

>> Balsekar used his position of successor to Niz <<
Again Nissaragatta Maharaj did not appoint any successor or start a gaddi (lineage).
At the same time he did not come back from dead and proclaimed that Ramesh Balsekar or ABC or XYZ are not my successors.
This is similar to RSSB claiming that Agra Gurus are their Gurus while Agra lineage keeps saying that no one from Agra appointed RSSB as their successors

>> Niz himself said some apparently insightful things, sure. But so did Balsekar. So did Rajneesh. So did Sai Baba of Puttarpathi, etc., etc. <<

Agreed. I read their books for their insights and that’s it. For that matter I have read RSSB books also but I don’t buy the things they sell and the stories they tell. I believe in Ekonkar – call is one-ness/ non duality or what you may.

>> Niz lost his composure AND his peace of mind
Yes. He often used to get angry at people. I still like his insights. I manage to keep his temper separate from his insights 😊

Don’t get so worked up dude.
l read a lot and like to learn from other’s insights without accepting them as my “Guru” God in human form and perfect living master and someone who will come when I die.

I like the story where Guru Gobind Singh accepted his disciples as His Guru. The Guru became the disciple and disciple became the Guru.
It’s a great message. In the end there is no distinction between Guru and disciple. Both are ONEmand this is the ultimate truth. Ekonkar Satnam!!

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been saved. Comments are moderated and will not appear until approved by the author. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Comments are moderated, and will not appear until the author has approved them.

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.