Open Thread 23 (free speech for comments)

Leave a comment on this post about anything you want to talk about. Remember that I'm moderating comments, so it could take a while for your comment to be published. Almost every comment submitted to an Open Thread will be approved. Personal attacks devoid of substantive content are an exception.

Though I haven't been doing too well on this, I'll try to remember to always have an Open Thread showing in the Recent Posts section in the right sidebar. If one isn't showing, I've added an Open Threads category in, naturally, the Categories section. You can always find an Open Thread that way.

So if you're a believer in some form of religion, mysticism, or spirituality, this is where you can put your "praise God," "praise Guru," or "praise _______" comments.

Comments

[Mike England]

Dr Eugenic Genetics knows who Jesse’s Father is.....

[7]

@Dr Eugenic Genetics knows who Jesse’s Father is.....
Posted by: Mike England | August 25, 2019 at 03:58 PM

So perhaps jesse is another grandson of the millionair
donating the millions
(see free chapter 22)
and that's could be the reason he is always so angry

7

[Chy]

Jesses father is Sat Purush and he will kick your butt if you mess with his son..
Chy

[7]

"She will". mmmn

[The Management]

His father is not sat purush
It is god / Jehovah.
Jesus was his brother.

And we all know what we did to him, and god just accepted it.

[7]

not bad at all
Thankyou Pinda IQ Manager

[777@]

777, I just said I prefer some authors over other authors.

Your response was "this is not true."

Can you tell me why you believe I don't prefer Hafiz over the supposed revelations written in the Quran? Because I'm almost certain I prefer Hafiz.

Posted by: Jesse | August 15, 2019 at 07:23 PM

me:
Rumi, Hafiz, Bullah , so many muslim Saints write poems about
their orgasms for hours above the eyes.

Other "revelations" in Quran miss this mystical super High Frequecy Loaded item

Actual Wahabees have even put a death penalty on someone
in this Extasy claimin " I am God"
777

Chy
Now I understand you are not rssb initiated and meditate without the 5 words

I think it would astonish you

If initiated
Hold the vertebra vertical - big help is that
although Love is so much more

Love brings you in the eye-center in the drugstore, in the cinema
at the superball
in war
always !!!

777

Meditation in itself ( mostly contemplation &free streaming )
awakens Love for those 'willing'

[Georgy Porgy]

777

Do you meditate every day?

You born into it with family or you come to it separately ?

Any advice for the beginner?

[777]

No
No (. google Church__etc 777 vivaldi )
Love a Good Saint & almost Never hurt a being, not with words to start with
Meditation ( stop thinking asap )

[777]

Do you think he feels empathy ? The big man?
There is a reason I am asking.
Posted by: Arjuna | August 26, 2019 at 11:47 AM

More than U can imaging when U try your heart out . . for ever
you will believe it, while thinking
that being ONE, . . . he s helping HIMSELF

777

[Chy]

777.
Dear one.
I was initiated in mid 70s. With m. Charan
My mother late 60s.
I explore various neditation ways but do love m. Charan and will not cast him out because of other peoples dislike of RS..
Chy

[Jesse]

Anyone who replaces policy or even remotely rational observations of a socio-political situation with spiritual and superstitious ideals about diminishing ego or somehow force altering any other natural human emotion on a global scale deserves to be insulted and nothing more.

There is no way to honestly look at a potential human conflict that could physically end millions of lives while saying "we just have to hold hands and realize we're on human family" and be expected to receive a considerate response. We're in the real world, with real pain and real consequences. We have real emotions, and there are real observable individual and group human behaviors. "Come on people now smile on your brother" is not real. It is an affront to everything and everyone and it doesn't serve as a placeholder in lieu of honest solutions.

Religious (aka stupid) thinking (aka emoting) is slippery. When you overcome it in one place it just pops up elsewhere. There should be less nice in this world and more insults and taunts. It'll make us more rational again. Even about religious and spiritual things.

And 777, I'm not angry. Not a millionaire either. I'm just telling you truths that hurt your fantasy and you don't like it. Sorry to upset your tender sensibilities, bro.

[777]

After the first time that the Love
or the Words stop your thoughts
You can stop them everywhere
when circumstances permit it

It's really fascinating ; google church+ serendipity
and see the humor of the Masters
Yes, when you feel/experience that you ARE your Master
you are admiring How much HE loves His (past) Master
and so on if this is your way to go
Even 'then' there is this unification/communian
with the Father
which is unforgettable like thousand quantumboms orgasmic
above the eyes

The exershere, if they knew

You know, you also start seeing HIM in all other
living and seemingly not living things
and all those are YOU
It's such a delicatesse
Also you are non vulnerable - i cannot explane
Take it UP again
Start with an hour
but thes ingrained words catch them and if you already do automatically
and you are able to think at the same time
Do a second Layer of them - i think you understand that
Do 4/5 Bhajan. ( my idea )

777

[j]

Once I was a seeker
I sought the final truth
I hung out at the Bodhi bookstore
I even read Dr. Ruth
I hunted the greatest guru
I sometimes chanted hu
I believed they would not lie to me
I put my trust in Mu
I knew there was an Answer
I knew IT would come someday
I meditated in darkness
I imagined lights and rays
I attended many a satsang
I listened to the words of yore
I was sure the dead gurus were all enlightened
I denied that I was bored
I wondered if I should shave my head
I pondered if a turban would be wise
I hungered for the guru to look at me
I was awash in a sea of lies

[Pema Tej]

Any updates on what happened with Osho Robins and the Sewadars at Haynes, after Osho apparently got punched?

[777]

@J

Only love what will makes you love it

Further like anybody pracyice Love ( Compassion ) all the time

777

U can look if HE approaches U with serendipities

[Mike England]

Osho has demanded a rematch with the lead Sevadar.
If he wins it will go to best of three

[_7 - - Better send Arjuna - -]

Better send Arjuna ( from the Gita )

[Mike England]

RSSB PLM GIHF

WTF?

Too many acronyms
It’ll never catch on

[Chy]

Hi Mike.
Acronyms keep the trolls uneducated!!.
As well saves writing the whole thing out...
Enjoy...its a learning experience. Lol!.
Chy

[Spence Tepper]

... Awash in a sea of lies
But how could I know lie from lie?
One false truth, from one disguised?
Some faint sight, requires some faint light.
What unseen moon arose this midnight?
What unknown source gave this insight?
If I admit the question, then quest I might
Though I am still a neophyte,
yet step by step the steps feel right,
From what is not to what just might
I stand upright and find delight
Step by step, From height to height.

[Mike England]

Chy
Acronyms keep the trolls uneducated.

Hmmm, I’m gonna take advantage of this gap in the market. I’ll publish a book:
Acronyms for Trolls
Or
AfT

[7+Naomi Pacific. - TY Michael -]

Michael wrote

busker in Leicester Square, Naomi Pacific, and her songs just magicked me.
Enjoy what we can, while we can 🤩

Posted by: Michael | August 25, 2019 at 07:28 AM
watch
Naomi Pacific - Wild Things | Vulture Sessions Oxford
My Comment on Youtube :
ankhaton
il y a 5 minutes
Excellent is your singing
4 Styles in One and So Natural
I LIKE THIS
I hope 4 a great carreer without any drugs ! Take Care of that always. <3
Y'r very sweet also !

Thank You Michael

777
the stubburn man and all jeevas on the photos here
will go 2 Sach Khand

[Some humour from 7 -]

Osho has demanded a rematch with the lead Sevadar.
If he wins it will go to best of three
Posted by: Mike England | August 27, 2019 at 01:05 PM

Haha. therefore i asked for circumstances
Where was it (. google earth coordinates. )

How old was the attacker - Spectacle? - Mudcles?-Angry?
Same for the 5 protecting him
WHAT precisely was said - or shouted
Did Osho wear a tie - Anybody did Simran?
and so much more like TIMES & PERIODS
Howmany constables?

Did Osho think about the advantages of dying overthere
I mean the high position in rssb legacy. wow
even above Julian

7
what would the 'SUN' hv written
Shame , Osho missed the opportunity but SKh is still open!

[777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTIcJNdYlcQ

[7_accepts TUSCON BET]

Tucson

I like to take the bet
but for 100 bitcoins

Also that he will join
prison same amount

Also available when
he seek asylum in another country

Also when he is responsable for
turkey buying the USA SU_57. Fighter

Further should every ex voter be fined for treason

7

[7 - Red button news. -]

Also for having pushed the red buttom
atter the loss of a drone
Lucky for all of us
the generals had changed the code a long time ago

7

[Georgy Porgy]

Pema

Yes I can update you.
Osho was lights out for a few days, but on waking his first words were:
统 是 种存在状态

[Michael]

Aye
I’ve just been listening to Naomi Pacific on YouTube.
The song that magicked me in Leicester Square is Crumble (Jelly)

[Michael]

Crumbling

[for S*. by 777 -]

@S
Unbelievable unique..
It's miraculous..wonder..
In fact.

Yes
To make a coplete universum
has the same grade of difficulty°
as to make You

But not if you made both,

777

[7 - No punch seen - might be my 82 yrs -]

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/08/osho-robbins-crime-of-the-century-at-a-rssb-haynes-park-satsang.html

No punch seen - might be my age

[777 Multi BBJ -]

@Osho

Sevadar N°2 Who
did your Iphone10 in his pocket
and asked "Do you know Who I am"

was BabaJi in multi Location

777
Don't ever get rid of this special N°10. phone

[77]

@Osho

How young are U ?

Your Father before Colonel Sanders, Madame Woods . . . ?

Santéeee

77

[Jesse]

On the topic of how mystics are almost ubiquitously con artists and their followers mostly sad sacks of easily manipulated sad sadness, is anyone aware that there's a reasonable likelihood that the super famous Juggi Vasudev Aka Sadh Guru killed his wife?

Look into it like Eddie Bravo. Very fascinating story that you couldn't pay his disciples to listen to calmly.

Get out of these cults, people. They're preying on you.

[Jesse]

Unintentionally hogging the entire recent comments feed. Sorry, but I wanted to cut and paste a hilarious comment from another blog.

When I've said before that people under the spell of a "mystic" simply do not care about the truth, morals, honesty or anything else, and that they will defend murder, I was not kidding. The amount of comments I'm finding in defense of Sadh Guru is astounding. Not saying he's innocent, but saying there's no right to even investigate him.

This one is just funny though.

"Rajat Sharma
July 13, 2019 at 8:45 pm

I don’t know much if he kills his wife none of Ur bussiness why u telling everyone if u really want justice for her wife than its very good and everyone dies but love the way he talks and speak will visit isha once for sure"

If he killed his wife it's none of your business. Why are you telling everyone? Hey man, I love the way he speaks and I just can't wait to get to his Ashram!

This is the degraded mentality of a cult member. Leave before you go insane.

[Chy]

Acronyms for Trolls
AFT
By Mike England

[7 -test Th you 🙏🌺🌈 🙏🌺🌈 -]

an)

Thank you 🙏🌺🌈 🙏🌺🌈 🙏🌺🌈

Just testing How this works

Can we place real images here ?

[777]

https://www.facebook.com/RTnews/videos/993836521008316/?notif_id=1567800561382773&notif_t=live_video

[Jesse]

Ok trying not to crap all over the thread topic of free will and that Nagel guys book, so I'll respond to your question here, Spence.

"What is spirituality if it isn't self - evaluation and personal progress?""

I have no idea what spirituality is. Self evaluation and "personal progress" can be a cold and calculating process for the purposes of becoming a more efficient womanizer hoping to find self worth through that lifestyle. It'd be hard to call that spiritual.

There doesnt seem to be any consensus on what that word means outside of religious circles. And the definition changes from religion to religion.

Even "spiritual but not religious" types tend to borrow their preferred ideas and arrange them into a syncretic personal religion much like the new age movement. Their "spirituality" is often secular humanitarianism with a vague sense of cosmic justice added in. "That guy is bad. Karma will get him!" they post on Facebook.

As for salvation, I also have no idea what that means either. But if you've been infected already by the salvation bug,the most useful ways to apply those terms is to accept the most dire religious warnings about your soul burning in hell or being reborn a trillion more times to suffer as a street dog, and working to cleanse yourself through good works or self neglect and asceticism.

Otherwise you'll just think about this stuff. And thinking is a curse on your humanity. It's a very bad idea to start thinking. Nothing good has ever come from thinking. If we're doing via nagativa here let's start by saying spirituality is not thinking.

[Spence Tepper]

Good points Jesse!
In my religion of one, I arbitrarily define it as higher than the highest good a person can imagine. So high it is just outside our ability to completely grasp. But so stunning we can do nothing but pursue her.

It might be a feeling, or an experience, but it is definitely superior to our current understanding. Therefore, in this religion, the believer must strive to understand reality wherever they find it, inside or outside. The true believer in my religion is the best student. There are no teachers. Just better students. To that believer it is all part of the same reality, just different parts. Science is also part of the creation, a method to understand the creation. It is part of my religion. And the creation is the creator. Humility before that unreachable understanding, and joy at understanding anything more fully. To watch a frog, to be in the same space as a frog, or a rabbit, or a tiger, and have that understanding that we are sharing space together, that we each honor the appropriate distance, that is communion with God.

Then there is the mystery of what is my place here? The local version. That purpose may not be your salvation. It might be your complete sacrifice for a greater good and a sound completion.

That sublime, indescribable quality of goodness, with its own subtle charisma.

[SP]

Spence,

Your religion has a name? What's it referred as?

Cheers

[um]

Maybe ….
Maybe, spirituality is an evil of wealth.

What is an evil of wealth … be it … material, mental or spiritual

Not the possible criminal way how the wealth was obtained,
nor the reprehensible way it is used,
but the overt or hidden suggestion to others,
that this wealth is a "sine qua non" for a complete human life,
a wealth THEY have and others will never have.

The happiness of having so called divine experiences by the very few has been the unhappiness for life for millions ….
not able to re-create that experience..
not able to reach the divine goals that were said to be reachable
living a life full of fears for the divine wrath
suppression of the freedom to live their own life by the clergy
the endless killings in the name of the divine.

Maybe those who have these experiences should be locked up in assylums where they can live their intoxicted paradise dreams and prevented to hook others to become addicted
in the search.

Maybe it is indeed the opium for the people and those who have the experience the dealers.
the lure the innocent into that addiction …. do as I do and you will be happy as i am.

Maybe
amen

[Jesse]

"Maybe those who have these experiences should be locked up in assylums where they can live their intoxicted paradise dreams and prevented to hook others to become addicted in the search."

This is why I'm a big fan of monasticism.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi SP
It hasn't been named yet. Would like to do the honors?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"Maybe those who have these experiences should be locked up in assylums where they can live their intoxicted paradise dreams and prevented to hook others to become addicted
in the search.

Maybe it is indeed the opium for the people and those who have the experience the dealers.
the lure the innocent into that addiction …. do as I do and you will be happy as i am."

Perhaps it's a little more practical. Because these places are all within you. But even the calm peace of simple, deep meditation, Mindfulness, yeilds a wealth worth the small effort. Then it is an investment that returns. And one invests more time and effort only because one is getting a return worth, in one's own estimation, far more than the investment.

When you search within, you are entering a scared land. The human body has been developed over tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of years. Yet its design code is submicroscopic in size. You are entering a place filled with ancient relics, incredible and antedeluvian machinery, the very art of the creation, there for you to discover. Even the impressions of people, beings and places you have never seen before. Much more fascinating than any museum. It is just a matter of unearthing the keys, which are at your feet.

[SP]

When you search within, you are entering a scared land. The human body has been developed over tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of years. Yet its design code is submicroscopic in size

And I thought your mystics/masters etc say God made man in his own image.

Jesus Christ, didn't know the Satpurush design code is submicroscopic in size.

Thanks for this info.

[anami]

Perhaps you're a Jedi, Spence! Your midi-chlorian count must be off the charts!

[um]

Spence, I never delighted in any form of art, let alone museums were it is shown.
I don´t know why but art is a kind of curse on humanity.
The worst of all are books and the thought that there can be found something.

Don´t worry, being a born vegetarian I learned to eat meat and a born cultural barbarian, I learned to go to musea, theaters etc.

MCS used to say: " ìf you had not brought it up, I would have had no knowledge of ".
That is how it is... almost everything I know was put before me, unasked for and without my consent.

Call it conditioning into culture.

He also wanted me to live a natural life in a natural way. I do hope to know what that is be fore death enters the place.

Probably having spontaneous experiences is natural, but SEEKING to have them not.

The pull must come from within like hunger … if it is not there it is just not there

[Jesse]

Some good political news that I assume 90% of the earth's population is happy about- John Bolton is out.

Doesn't mean USA will be able to get out of Afghanistan or any other place we're trapped in endless military operations, but it certainly massively reduces the probability of new wars. Unless of course the CIA hires Bolton directly, in which case he'll probably push for false flag attacks on US to get more wars started.

USA! USA! USA!

[🙏🌺🌈 🙏🌺🌈]

Hello, I'm on the path, initiated recently.
Posted by: Milton | September 05, 2019 at 10:27 AM

me:
Congrat Milten - Just try to love HIM
If not goes fast enough to yr taste, ... increase Simran up to 24/7 --- It's power is immense. - It is The Love we seek Itself

🙏🌺🌈 🙏🌺🌈 777

[Jen]

Just watched on SBS Australian TV channel a documentary with witnesses talking about 9/11 (11 September 2001).

"9/11: 102 Minutes That Changed America is an unprecedented documentary that joins hundreds of pieces of footage and audiotape in a seamless historical record - from moments after the first plane crashed into the North Tower of the World Trade Center, to the South Tower being hit to the aftermath of the collapse of the second building."

[Spence Tepper]

Hi UM:
Just as a contrasting point of view, I'm a huge fan of art. It is an internal experience, expressed in abstract symbols by the artist. At its best, an expression from deep within the unconscious. I see it as an organic, natural expression.

Meditation is the most creative art I know of. It is the artist's purest expression of spirit, painting, or actually un-painting an inner canvas. There is a lot of spirituality in Art. We are submitting everything we are in the symbols of Simran. If we are sad, depressed, angry, or joyous, we are painting that with Simran that is sad, depressed, angry or joyous. And the response is inspiration. God is painting and re-painting us with pure inspiration. Like two musicians riffing off each other.

Art and Meditation are quite similar.

But I do love art of any kind. It comes from the heart, the soul, the spirit, however you choose to label it.

The canvas an artist paints on, or the page the poet writes upon, is actually within themselves. And what they express comes from another place through them.

When you digest that, when your canvas is your own consciousness, that's meditation.

No difference, to me.

As for effort, whatever we undertake, when we do it with passion, with focus, with effort, when we strive to do something beyond our nature, like an Olympic athlete striving for that one perfect movement, that one one-hundredth of a second faster time, for the ideal, that is to me God. That is God speaking and living through limited humanity. Just like art.

So the idea of struggling to reach a new level is actually a good thing. Struggling to be something we are not, yet we sense the potential within us, the connection within us, the caterpiller knows it is the butterfly in concept, and can't help but work to become what is really is, and it calls to us, that's creative, it's art.

And where we find progress, it seems to me, is where we find something within ourselves, that we are growing into, that we are becoming complete. So that this struggle isn't to some artificial point, but that the artificial point is really a real point that has come through us, our limited brain, in some abstract and artificial symbol. But it is a real place. And we are uniting with that place, merging with it, becoming whole by becoming whatever we are striving to express.

In the striving, we are whole with our art.

[Jen]

Hi Spence, after watching the terrible catastrophe that happened on 9/11 and with a lot of fires happening here in Australia at the moment, its all very good when life is going well and easy like when you talk about art and say: "That is God speaking and living through limited humanity."

I wonder what kind of God this is? Sounds like a psychopath to me especially when we have worldly situations when humans can suffer so terribly.

[Um]

Spence, if that striving is your calling, go for it.

For people like me, nothing can be changed for "the better" .. to make oneself and others believe that, has proven to be a curse let alone force them to become better.

Those who have the blood of thousands of their own brothers and sisters at their hands, the pol pots of history, were all idealists, striving to make others better, forcing them to change what cannot be changed.

Everything in nature is complete as it is …. no crow will ever become a nightingale or eagle
In nature i never saw a trace of conscious striving for the better only in culture. And what is made are poor replicas of nature … arts is,.... and airplanes are no birds.

Probably i am an nihilist … who knows ….

There is no end to what kan be made available to the mirror, art will go on, the writing of books, the development of ever refined instruments of science … those who enjoy this infinite display should go on looking, feel happy and be grateful to their divine source … i feel that we are not born to look in that mirror

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
You wrote
"Those who have the blood of thousands of their own brothers and sisters at their hands, the pol pots of history, were all idealists, striving to make others better, forcing them to change what cannot be changed."

I think you misunderstood. I only wrote about changing oneself, no one else.

In nature all creatures strive. Something compels them.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen
The God in you directs you to look at and see what you attend to. It is for you to decide what sort of God or demon that is.

But rest assured, the benevolent and loving God can be found within, if that is the sort of God you wish to grow closer to.

[SP]

"I wonder what kind of God this is? Sounds like a psychopath to me especially when we have worldly situations when humans can suffer so terribly."

Jen,

Why curse God? Has he ever promised there will be no suffering or that he will eradicate it, if ever there is any?

And why lament about just human suffering? Don't other life forms suffer in equal measure if not more?

Correct me if I am wrong; my impression is the numerous GIHF appearances all have said that there is only pain and suffering in this world - now I suppose this broader category includes mass murders, persecution, death, poverty etc etc and they thus emphasize that we should choose wisely when we have been given the opportunity to escape this creation.

You also now know where to look for the keys to unlock this opportunity - they are at your feet.

[Jesse]

"Has he ever promised there will be no suffering or that he will eradicate it"

Basically every religion has some kind of period when there comes a reset and all becomes well again, and the reset is sometimes attributed to god's mercy, or sometimes just natural cycles such as in the yug system adopted by the radha soami cults.

So yes, if there is any sort of god and that god has spoken through earthly representatives who we're aware of, god has promised a world without suffering many times. Go online and read about a religion or something if you're unaware of this.

"You also now know where to look for the keys to unlock this opportunity - they are at your feet. "

This is true if feet is your metaphorical expression for imagination. Spiritualists talk big about how it's possible to overcome fear and vices,and ascend to heaven, but they invariably fail miserably. Some here who present themselves as so knowing and self realized throw pathetic hissy fits when I don't respect their opinions.

Remember those stories in the RS books about the fake saints who'd act all mad when the real saint asked them a bunch of questions? That's me. Except I'm not a real saint, and nobody else is a fake saint. It's just that finding ways to trigger people is easy and nobody will ever change their innate character. If it has ever happened, it's so rare and a religious org has already put that person on a pedestal and used them as an example for the efficacy of their unique teachings. Cults are disgusting.

The only one who seems to really get how real life is is Arjun, which is why I no longer think he's just pretending to be a soldier. I think he's really in some aspect of that military world. They tend to understand life without as using as many tricky self coping mechanisms such as seeing spirits in their mind when convenient.

[SP]

"In nature i never saw a trace of conscious striving for the better"

Um,

Well said.

Is our great philosopher Spenceji able to throw some light on why is this the case.

[SP]

"the caterpiller knows it is the butterfly in concept, and can't help but work to become what is really is"

Spence

Amazing.stuff. You even know what a caterpillar knows. Is this because of your divine vision or you talk with caterpillars and they have told you this.

I suppose this is no different from a new born kid 'knowing' that he is gonna be 60years old one day.

But how come then Humans (supposed top of the creation possessing unmatched intelligence) knowing they are God in concept, can't help but work to become what they really are?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen
You wrote
"I wonder what kind of God this is? Sounds like a psychopath to me especially when we have worldly situations when humans can suffer so terribly."

If that sort of god arouses you to help others, then that's a good God! But if your psychopath god makes you feel so defeated you don't lift a finger, then yes, that's a bad god. If that is so, find another God.

Could be science. Science is a fine God also. Imagine a better God, then find them.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi SP
You quoted Um then added...
'"In nature i never saw a trace of conscious striving for the better"

'"Um,

" Well said.

"Is our great philosopher Spenceji able to throw some light on why is this the case."

But then you also cited me and wrote
"the caterpiller knows it is the butterfly in concept, and can't help but work to become what is really is"

"Spence

" Amazing.stuff. You even know what a caterpillar knows. Is this because of your divine vision or you talk with caterpillars and they have told you this."

So SP, Um can see into the very hearts of all creatures their lack of striving and this inference you believe without question.

But my claim that caterpillars strive in their work to become butterflies is some loose form of imagined anthropomorphic with no evidence.

What you are doing is selective. And you are choosing not to believe the evidence in front of you.

Watch the single ant struggling with the grain of sugar, determined to move it.

Watch the mother bird struggle building the nest.

One morning the nest fell and the eggs were lost. And all day and into the next she screamed at her husband.

These are never a perfect smooth act. They are in their own way, hard work.

But in the next year that same couple returned to the tree outside my kitchen window.. And there were children. And when it rained athe mother bird huddled down in the cold and damp in that nest spreading her wings like a tent over her young. All while she was pelted with icy rain, blinking the drops from her eyes. She wasn't going anywhere, not even the few inches away to a dry branch better protected by the tree's leaves.

And anyone, even human, who approached that tree was loudly warned, and then attacked by her. I'm 185 pounds. She is two ounces.

You need to spend more time in nature SP, with an open mind. Be a better student.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi SP
You wrote
"Correct me if I am wrong; my impression is the numerous GIHF appearances all have said that there is only pain and suffering in this world -"

The saints teach that the various regions of hell, all residing within the Astral planes, are far worse.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
You quoted me then wrote
""You also now know where to look for the keys to unlock this opportunity - they are at your feet. "''

"This is true if feet is your metaphorical expression for imagination."

All the solutions, cures, insights and improvements came from there. If you seek the solution to God, how odd to believe that this one solution would somehow be found elsewhere.

" Imagination is superior to knowledge."
Einstein

[Um]

@ Spence,

The idea of the possibility, the need, the striving for "changing for the better" … or growth, more, expansion, is a common idea whether it is for oneself, others, nature, the world, society … it is just the same motivation.

Those who live by that idea, spread that message be it verbal or unspoken.

The makeable world … god , if there is one, created the world and man created culture.
Culture is te outcome of eating from the forbidden tree of knowledge, thinking that what god can do, man can do better.

Please don't take my words personal … i just express my points of view

[anami]

Even houseplants strive for the better in turning their leaves toward the window for sunlight.

[SP]

Spence

I am not at all being selective. There is no need to establish any links between the two statements by me.

On the caterpillar bit

why don't you answer my question which I repeat for ease of reference

But how come then Humans (supposed top of the creation possessing unmatched intelligence) knowing they are God in concept, can't help but work to become what they really are?

On the Um's bit,

I thought you as a traveller of the casual and beyond would know what I was getting at. But it's obvious you didn't. Don't want to focus anymore on why so. That bit is kind of clear to me.

If you are genuinely into RSSB, what I suggest you do is look out for an old time Indian satsangi preferably in India and ask him/her if as per Santmat did Kaal seek and get some boons (I call it the governing laws of creation) from the Satpurush.

It's just that Um said just struck a chord with me.

[um]

@anami .. that is "adaptation"

Adaptation according inbuild mechanisms typical for that plant.
You are born the man you are, you will live that way and end it …. whatever you have learned and will learn doesn't change you for a bit, physical, mental and even spiritual.

All creatures are "witnesses" … you are to witness this world in that body of yours, your mental make up and your soul, if humans do have such a thing.

All religions and mystical schools address that "strive" , that "desire".

[SP]

@anami

It's just the overwhelming urge to survive.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Um
To strive is part of our nature.
People do change. They grow up, learn lessons, forget lessons, do good works and bad. Rise, fall and rise again. Each life is its own journey. That should not imply free will. Even kal's duty is to reform.

Association, environment changes us. Education, experience changes us. In the right environment we are encouraged to help, until it becomes our conditioning and culture. And that is a good culture.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi SP
You asked
"But how come then Humans (supposed top of the creation possessing unmatched intelligence) knowing they are God in concept, can't help but work to become what they really are?"

Conditioning. Environment. If you can envision a better, nicer you, naturally that is there, even unconsciously.

If you uncover it, it has its effect, and you strive, as best you can, until another limitation shows itself. If you can't overcome that, you fall. But you have laid down the impression of progress, and that is still there. It can't be erased, only denied. And not for long.

So next time, you prepare a little better. You are a little not vigilant. Like the mother bird. You won't let anything throw you this time.

[Um]

@ Spence … look outside to the animals, the plants and even the stones, in fact the whole of creation, everything that is perfect in itself … in the bible it says that the creator, if there is one, saw what he made and conclude that it was alright.

Humans, are part of that same nature.

Apart from that desire to change for the better, no natural thing can be changed.

Culture, is an overlay that creates a SUGGESTION of that possibility but the reality is that nothing that is created can be changed.

You too, Spence will die as you were born. Everything alive is called to witness life in the orm it receives at birth.

What people learn as you say doesn't change them. If a person learns to make fire, cut trees etc he doesn't change.

The mind we have gives us a particular freedom that animals do not have. To stay alive as an individual and as a species, forces animals to stay in a given habitat. Outside that habitat they will die. Humans missing all the specific talents of animals in terms of strenght, velocity, eyesight etc that enables them to catch prey is compensated by the extra tool … the mind.
With that tool they can RE=create their original an natural habitat wherever they go or are forced to by environmental and climatic changes …. everything humans to is THAT recreate the natural habitat …. even on the moon.

Going to the moon doesn't change them … they adapt only to the altered environment.

[Spence Tepper]

Oops typo...should read
"You are a little MORE vigilant."

[Jen]

I think that humans are somewhat attracted to conflict. In many ways the subconscious can make someone become quite rebellious even if they are not prone to being difficult. I notice how people are not necessarily physically violent but they can be violent and superficial with the words they use.

People talk about God a lot (an overused word imo) and for some reason it provokes annoyance in me. What suits my inner understanding about this world and the underlying subterfuge within everyone is the negative power of the mind, Kal.

Lets face it even when we were fooled into thinking that the Master is an enlightened being our mind was fooling us with wishful thinking, the same as when people are praising this so called God which is actually Kal, the mind, the negative power ruling this world, they are bowing down to.

[SP]

Spence,

Prepare better for dealing with what you spew in here. Na...

In one of your posts you said you love all forms of art. Bullshitting is an art too. Not that you don't know this already.

In this instance now the content shifts to conditioning and environment and of course littered with Ifs. A shift occuring is so predictable.

In effect these influences can overpower the CAN'T HELP BUT WORK to become what they really are, in humans but not in a measly caterpillar. Also showstopper conditions apply only in case of humans. Any more caveats to fix your poorly drafted script?

And hey what's not going to be denied for long? I presume denied becoming what humans really are ie God. Define long? Isn't it long enough already? How long has it been already according to your Master. Ask him. Or simply quote him from Satsangs/books for it's pretty clear you do not have any access to him

The caterpillar KNOWS it's a butterfly in concept. And you know the caterpillar knows this. LOL. Next time you communicate with one, ask it what's its' view on Global warming or still better Why God made it a caterpillar and You a human.

Am sure the caterpillars reply to the second question will be most enlightening to all in here.

[Fun Facts]

"To become a butterfly, a caterpillar first digests itself. But certain groups of cells survive, turning the soup into eyes, wings, antennae and other adult structures"
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/caterpillar-butterfly-metamorphosis-explainer/

[🌈. -]

Am sure the caterpillars reply to the second question will be most enlightening

There is only some difference in timing
and desire

🌈. 777