Report on a Haynes Park Q & A with the RSSB guru

Here's a message I got today from a regular Church of the Churchless visitor, Osho Robbins. Since Gurinder Singh Dhillon (GSD) refers to the One in the message, this gives me an opportunity to plug my book, "Return to the One: Plotinus's Guide to God-Realization."

I wrote it back when I was still an active member of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, the organization headed up by Dhillon. The RSSB guru wanted a book about a Western mystic. He gave me some suggestions to choose from, and I chose Plotinus, a Neoplatonist Greek philosopher.

The book got close to being published by RSSB, but I ended up publishing it myself.

Anyway, I'm still a fan of the One, though according to Plotinus there is nothing we can really say about the unity that underlies existence, because it is, well, One. And descriptions require a quality that can be described. which makes two. At least.

Osho emailed me this:

Hi Brian

 

I went to Haynes Park today (Sunday). GSD invited questions. I asked one. 

 

My question (Dialogue):

 

The first word or gurbani is “ek” (one).

Whereas our first word is usually “me”.

Gurbani says there is no “me” or individual soul, yet that is all we focus on. 

It’s like we are trying to navigate with the wrong map. Every step we take is wrong. 

 

His reply:

 

It’s true there is only the ONE but that is not our experience. So we need to meditate to experience the merging into the ONE then we will truly understand.  Otherwise it’s jyst intellectual knowledge. From knowledge we experience and that leads to understanding. 

 

So one thing became clear. He does advocate meditation. I previously said he did not and was obviously mistaken. Meditation is the means to experience the ONE, according to his teaching. We are already merged but through meditation we go through the experience of it. 

 

It was business as usual at Haynes. Packed hall. He was his usual jovial self. Nobody would imagine he has just lost 500 million dollars. If anything, he was more jovial than usual. Cracking jokes st every opportunity. 

 

No question was asked about any financial matter. The sangat was either oblivious about the financial scandal or really did not care. Judging by how the day went, RSSB will not be affected at all by the financial scandal.  

 

Feel free to share 

Osho Robbins 

 

Gurinder Singh Dhillon

Comments

[j]

Sorry...your question to Gurinder wasn't anything touching upon the bad loans? You had a chance to put a hard question about the scandal to Gurinder, in front of the sangat, and instead, you asked about "ek"?

[Nick GB]

All
Was there at Haynes also.
No change in atmosphere, no questions whatsoever about the financial concerns. No statement from GSD.
One question centered around sexuality and indulgence in that sphere. Question broadened out to 'indulgence' in general. Sat there and wondered if this includes 'indulgence' in gross and excessive financial dealings that were dodgy in the first place?
Was not in the mood to be preached to!
Even if further developments further implicate GSD, it is as expected that this will not touch the sangat in the slightest!
Further discussions with satsangi friend showed that people still do not trust or accept the alleged 'facts' raised on this blog in particular. There is suspicion of bias and prejudice and also not knowing what the 'facts' even are. Just reporting so make of this what you will!
Denial and faith go a long way, especially if there has been a long term investment (emotionally and intellectually) in a given way. They will override such mundane things as 'facts' all day long!

[G]

J,

Hopefully he will ask next month at the national satsangs

[E]

Excuse me but are you sure its RSS Beas satsangs you have been attending all these years? He only prescribes meditation. In His Satsangs, in the old books, in the new books. Dispeling Concepts & Illusions is only achieved through meditation. All the weekly satsangs around the world only prescribe meditation. Long time meditators only prescribe meditation. The more one begins focusing within, the more the desire for meditation. Baba Ji tells 500,000 satsangies that the Path is internal, and not outward, not towards a physical location or to toward an outward form. All the satsangs by Maharaj Ji (on CD's ) drill at every single question the need for meditation. From the Sat Bachan to the children books, meditation to the Sound is the Path.

Thank you ORobbins nevertheless

[Jag]

From personal experience, having discussed “the facts” of the Indian courts ruling against GSD & his family, RS followers can’t accept these facts despite the lack of any challenge whatsoever from GSD himself.

Even individuals who I would declare as completely rational, become decidedly irrational in terms of accepting “the facts” laid out against GSD.

Conversely, non-RS followers, some of whom have absolutely no knowledge of GSD/RS beliefs, are clear to express their doubts about GSD’s integrity.

Unfortunately, until the ongoing SEBI investigation is concluded, we will remain in the current state of impasse.

[Vinny]

Law came through Moses, Grace and Mercy came through Christ. Who is the criminal ?? People who have set up gun factories, people who sell guns and pellets or users of these guns and pellets. Kal traps the Soul by creating circumstances of crime. Who is criminal ?? Person who sells and creates alcohol in factories or the driver who under the influence of alcohol kills a pedestrian. Do these RSSB members Hindus, Sikhs and so called Christians have double standards?? When they become victims of crime they want to put the offenders to the gallows?? When they are offenders themselves, they joke and laugh plus talk about mercy and grace of Sant-Mat ??

[Osho Robbins]

J &G
I don’t have any interest in asking him about the financial scandal. If you are interested, then YOU ask.
I am far more interested in the ONE.

My view is that “perfection” doesn’t exist. Humans are humans, enlightened or not. Moral standards are not fixed. Enlightenment is not connected to moral standards.
RSSB puts the master on a pedestal. The teachings make him out to be a super human.
Enlightenment is an ordinary state. It just means Realization of the ONE.
Our whole life is concerned with “me”
We spend our whole life collecting things for “me”. Yet we know we will lose it all.

The spiritual seeker is also in the same trap. Instead of collecting money, he is collecting spiritual merit through meditation. It’s the same greed.

He wants a good place after death.

Enlightenment is the realisation that there is no individual self and no merit to be obtained.

So you drop the greed and cannot ask for anything

[Karma King]

I'm not surprised the atmosphere hasn't changed and that no one was critical. Everyone at Haynes is a believer whose identity is tied to RSSB. It's similar to a Trump rally. An echo chamber.

Even our own Osho couldn't bring himself to ask the big man a hard, critical question, opting instead to ingratiate himself with the usual pseudo spiritual chitter chatter.

[Amar]

Osho, you wrote: "... Moral standards are not fixed. Enlightenment is not connected to moral standards.".

What the hell does that mean? I can do what I like according to the "morals" and when I need to, I can cheat, lie, and use nepotism to fulfill my desires or get my end result? That's a very dangerous statement. And since it's not connected to my spirituality/enlightenment, I can do whatever I want and it won't affect my spiritual progress. Biggest load of shit I've seen in along time.

It's a slippery slope when you start making excuses for the guru. As followers, there are people crying in shame in front of the guru at the mic, saying how they've failed and not lived up to the morals and teachings of the path. Good grief.

[Vinny]

These Hindus & Sikhs, How they ostracize people who become offenders/criminals according to penal code. These Hindus and Sikhs would never talk about creating atmosphere/circumstances of crime in India by setting up gun factories/alcohol factories/tobacco factories. It seems so strange that when anyone among them becomes offender/ criminal according to penal code, they hire costly lawyers to make sure that their relative who has become criminal never gets the gallows/execution. When Australian missionary Graham Staines was burnt alive along-with two sons Philip and Timothy, his wife Gladys Staines issued a statement that she had forgiven the killers and had no bitterness towards them. Moot point is : How can you ask for mercy and grace when you have not shown it in your entire life. Even bigger debatable point is : When you have created the circumstances of crime by setting up gun factories/ arms and ammunition given to general public by giving them license to use them, even the mercy and grace to criminals is fake and sham when you have created all the circumstances for crime to happen.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho
You wrote
"
It was business as usual at Haynes. Packed hall. He was his usual jovial self. Nobody would imagine he has just lost 500 million dollars. If anything, he was more jovial than usual. Cracking jokes
at every opportunity."

I understand the kool-aid was free.

[Karma King]

Amar/Spence - Osho doesn’t seem to see the irony/disconnect here. Why discuss The One with someone embroiled in a financial scandal? What authority does Gurinder have to sit on a dais and expound on enlightenment? An enlightened person doesn’t want for millions of dollars and seek to acquire it through dishonest means. The whole point of a guru is to lead by example.

What do you get out of these Haynes visits, Osho?

[Vinny]

Excerpt from the book Anurag Sagar/ Ocean of Love English Version
Kal troubles the jivas, involving them in many karmas; he himself plays the tricks and gives the consequences to jiva.
I am again reminding the readers the mystery surrounding death of Dr Julian P Johnson, Apparently, Johnson got into a fairly heated debate with a younger friend of his named Paul Petzoldt. During the heat of the debate Johnson either tripped or was pushed and hit his head on a rock. He subsequently died from his injuries on the way to the hospital. I'm not saying Paul was a murderer or innocent. Thousands of so called criminals in Indian jails are ostracized and on close inspection they are victims of criminal circumstances created by selling of guns and alcohol.
When anyone from our relatives/friends becomes a criminal/ victim of criminal circumstances we feel all the love and sympathy for him and try to make endless excuses that he is nice guy and became victim of circumstances. On the other hand we ostracize and condemn convicted criminals all the time. This is hypocrisy of highest order.

[Amar]

Vinny, this is human nature. The ones we have a bond with, we will protect up to a certain extent. Part of this is self preservation (we don't want to acknowledge that someone we associate with or shares the same last name has done something "bad", because our name gets dragged along with them).

Mistakes happen, we can hit someone on a dark and rainy night. They were wearing dark clothing and crossed the street mid block. As long as you stay at the scene and give your version, you probably will get benefit of the doubt. If you hit and run, you're screwed.

[Maria de la Torre]

Well said, Karma King!

[Vinny]

On close inspection even the good- bad karma is a trap laid by negative power Kal the ruler of this plane. You go for boating with your friend and boat capsizes and he gets killed by drowning because he doesn't know swimming. You will escape the penal code but you will never be able to face the relatives of your dead friend who got killed by drowning just because he agreed to the whim of your mind to go for boating on that day even if he had no interest in boating all his life. You became the cause of his death but in the eyes of penal code you may be innocent.
Conversely, there are convicted criminals of penal code who on close inspection were not more guilty than the person acquitted in boating and drowning case if we look at the big picture / who provided them/sold them guns and alcohol. But society never shows any love/ sympathy for these convicted criminals until their own friend/ relative is tried in criminal case.
Many of the convicted criminals don't even go to their homes even after their punishment/jail term is over due to fear of stigma on their family and by the time their jail term is over their close relatives / parents may have already died leaving them no inspiration to lead normal life.
On the contrary person who sold them arms and ammunition might be considered a very philanthropic person by the same society who hates these convicted criminals.

[osho Robbins]

To Amar and Karma King:

Do you not understand something as simple as the subjective nature of a “moral code”

Moral codes are man made. What one culture consider a sin, another considers a virtue.

One simple example
Halal food. Sikhs consider it a sin
Muslims the direct opposite

Neither is right but feels they are right.

Is killing “wrong”?

But when a soldier goes to war and kills innocent people who he doesn’t even know, it’s a “good” thing because the country says so.

If his neighbour threatens him and he gets into a fight an kills or injured him, he goes to jail.

So killing is okay if the country is at war.

Moral standards are man made. Not some inherently natural law.

[Osho Robbins]

@karma king

Gurinder has the same authority as you, it’s called free speech.

I went there of my free will and asked a question about oneness. It doesn’t even mean I consider him an authority. I am asking him the RSSB view and he gave it. I don’t agree with his answer, because I don’t think any amount of meditation leads to Realization.

But I honour the free choice of those who choose to go there. Who am I to condemn them. They are free to make their choices in life.

It’s not my job to convert anyone to anything. Those who have faith in RSSB are free to continue. They don’t care about the financial scandal because they are concerned about their spiritual welfare which they feel is in his hands.

If you followed the path, you might well do the same. He certainly doesn’t seem like a criminal when at Haynes

[Vinny]

RSSB chief Baba Gurinder Dhillon's associates threatened me with life, alleges filmmaker Sheetal Talwar
Received death threats on phone after lawyers pursued unpaid $1.25 million towards Baba's treatment abroad.
twitter-logo Rajeev Dubey New Delhi Last Updated: March 27, 2019 | 11:31 IST
[Source: businesstoday.in]
I'm not saying he is criminal, plain and simple search engine results.

[Osho Robbins]

On this site, Brian has created a platform where we can discuss and voice our opinions. But remember they are just opinions.

Just as no RSSB follower insists that you and I follow his chosen path, so nobody has the right to tell them what to do.

Those who come onto church of the churchless can read and make up their own mind. Nobody can do any more than present the known facts.

There are many followers who don’t care about any scandal, many will not even listen. That is their choice and I respect any choice a person makes.

I may not agree with it, but who cares? Each person chooses their own path.

Karma king and Amar seem to think the world revolves around their opinion.

Live and let live is my philosophy

Let others make their choices without condemning them.

[Jen]

Thanks Osho, for sharing.

Lots of angry people who don't realise that its their own fault for having unrealistic expectations. What we see in others is a reflection of ourselves.

We will never find perfection on this planet. Gurinder is simply doing his job to the best of his ability.

[Harry]

You editor.. u are a big chutiyaa... believe me..
U havent achieved anything and u r fully driven by ur negative thoughts.. but newton 3rd law is applicable to u.. i cant say u believe in God.. so i will not talk about karma.
U will get everything as return gifr. I promise..

The higher u go the deeper u fall.

[David Christopher Lane]

Hi Vinny,

The saga of Julian Johnson's death (interesting sidenote: Phillip was his birth name and he adopted "Julian" later on) is a fascinating one, even if controversial. Due to the work of Joseph O' Leary, who first opened our eyes to Paul Petzoldt and his connection with Johnson's death, I got intrigued and did a little more digging. It turns out that the "real" fight that precipitated Julian's death was due to an argument between Johnson's wife, Elizabeth Bruce and Paul Petzoldt. It was apparently centered on a couple of things, not the least of which was squirmish over Elizabeth's cooking! Apparently, Petzoldt could also say sarcastic things at the wrong time (at least that is how he remembers his persona in those days). In any case, things got really heated and Elizabeth Bruce pulled out a shotgun (apparently the same gun that Paul would use to kill stray dogs around the Dera) and pointed it at him. This caused quite a commotion..... Julian was not there at the time and only came later which unhappily led to his demise as Paul ran out pushing Johnson to the ground (other accounts have him punching him to get away). In any case, it is a very convoluted story, especially since Paul had just brought his wife to the Dera. Paul received initiation earlier and reports that he had a most amazing meditation experience (greater than any of peak experiences while climbing.... including K2). Well, Joseph original research inspired me to get some original documentation and eventually I wrote a little book on the subject under the title THE MYSTERY OF DR. JOHNSON'S DEATH, which is in paperback, audio, and free PDF format. I will include the free PDF link for those who are interested. What is also intriguing is that in the court documents it clearly states that Bhagat Singh (not Jagat, his cousin) was the "successor in waiting." A few years later, Sawan Singh got very ill and actually wrote a will out in the early 1940s appointing Bhagat..... but Sawan recovered and eventually Bhagat Singh died a few years later.

Coincidentally, I was contacted by Julian Johnson's great-grandaughter who gave me a treasure trove of materials about Johnson, including the fact that he was married 4 times..... and that he had actually authored a book about India decades prior (and still available online) entitled, LIFE AMONG THE HINDUS.

Here are the pertinent links:

1. PDF for the book:https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxydW5uZWJvaG1kaWdpdGFsY29sbGVjdGlvbnR3b3xneDo5OTM2MDhkMDMyOGIxMmE

2. Website with new pictures and updated information about Johnson:
https://sites.google.com/site/julianphillipjohnson/

[Vijay]

Osho wrote
“Karma king and Amar seem to think the world revolves around their opinion.“

I have always thought this. Many disillusioned people on this blog just can’t believe that others choose to take the stand they do. Amar is one of them. He feels like your stupid if you don’t see it like him. Or your wearing some sort of tinted glasses. I have had him say this in reply to my posts numerous times too.

[Amar]

Jen and Osho, it's a slippery slope. The ideal of the guru is the ideal, he holds the teachings utmost and is the example.

So first we have fraud, unpaid loans and alleged death threats from people in GSD's office. But hey, no body is perfect. Let it go right?

So Ram Rahim rapes two girls, gets sent to jail for 20 years, and his followers still consider him a true guru.

Where does it stop? At what point do actions of the guru stop being accountable, and/or deserve the scrutiny they deserve?

And Osho, morals are morals, you can't pick and choose which ones are more important or unimportant, according to your agenda. Especially when you're the saviour of millions.

If not, then he needs to come out and say it, right?

In the Sant Mat tradition, the guru is the ideal, the perfect disciple. The Gurmukh. That is the guru and that is the ideal that the Sangat wants and expects. That's what drives nut jobs like Harry to say the things they say.

Guru is there to lead and be a role model. Not to slowly lower the bar, as you suggest.

[Georgy Porgy]

But now there is just one thing I’d like to know:

Did any of these brave outspoken keyboard warriors actually approach the guru in person at Haynes park to ask him about all these financial going on? Anyone at all ?

Or are you just all hot air and no trousers?

Thank you kindly Georgy (v doubtful this will be posted)

[Amar]

Sorry to hurt your feelings Vijay. Vijay, next time you are at the next Q&A pose the question regarding the scandals and tell him you don't believe any of it. If he agrees, then by jove man, he's innocent!

I see you only post here to say that Amar only likes to have people agree with him.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

[kunal Arora]

I think Amar, u have left ur job and u have nothing to do. Every time I see this blog, I see ur post. If u have so much if problem so y don't u go to the police and log an FIR against him? Or go to his Satsang and ask direct question to him? Y r u provoking everyone here.
Don't care about anyone, whatever they think. Provoking someone is also crime. Do u know that? Either way or that way u r also doing crime. So we need to say same thing to you as well! U will not see this because u e alligating someone. Whenever we alligate someone, we forget that we r also committing a crime.

So think before u raise a question. One day u will be asked some questions and u will not have any answers.

[Sharan]

What is the meaning of church of churchless??

[s*]

Sharan,
What is the meaning ,real meaning of life?
I mean it...!!
Why is everything exactely how it is..??

Just to Be?

[Vinny]

Gun violence in the United States results in tens of thousands of deaths and injuries annually. In 2013, there were 73,505 nonfatal firearm injuries (23.2 injuries per 100,000 persons), and 33,636 deaths due to "injury by firearms" (10.6 deaths per 100,000 persons). [Wikipedia].

I'm not saying Mr A is Criminal or Mr B is not, When you have created the circumstances of crime yourself by giving guns in the hands of adolescents and adults. It is all the trap of Kal / negative power to create circumstances of crime. The theory of perceived threat is rubbish theory to justify guns in the hands of people. You can easily end this perceived threat by employing more police force which will create more employment also. It is all the trap of Kal to set up circumstances of crime and then try people under penal code.

[Vijay]

Amar no worries you don’t hurt my feelings at all.
I have nothing to contribute to this discussion as I think the question asked by Osho and the reply by BBJ are
pretty clear. I can’t speak about it as I’m not with the ONE yet. 😊
And FYI I will not ask any questions myself as I don’t have any.the answer to all our questions are given at the time or initiation. You do what you are supposed to and you will get your clear answers.

[Osho Robbins]

Amar, Karma King and other extremists;
Harry may be a nut case.
There are but cases at both ends of the spectrum.

Nobody is forcing Harry to come to the churchless site. And if he comes, natural he can see people voicing their opinion. Freedom of speech.

In the same way many choose to follow RSSB despite newspaper articles. That is their freedom. It’s their life.

You can provide information but not force it down anyone’s throat.

So take a chill pill, relax, and smoke a cigar. Don’t take it so seriously, you are not the police of the universe.

[One Initiated]

It was a pleasant read.
Thanks Osho & Brian, for sharing with all of us.

Amar,
why so much hatred and negativity. it's not your responsibility, is it ?
if you don't feel for a particular path, it's best to move on to a path which works best for you.
there are many people on this blog who no longer follow RSSB but they are still at peace,
I hope I am getting it all wrong, but you sound quite disturbed.

maybe you can do something like:
tell yourself you don't follow anyone/any master in this world and feel relieved,
at the same time start spending some good quality time and attend to your meditation,
listen to sound daily (Sound is universal, RSSB in particular has not patented it),
and have a peaceful time.

I wish you much love brother.
I hope you will soon find a peaceful state within you.

[Sushil garg]

Instead of quarrel and blames , we should follow his( GSD) instructions, if we got result then believe in him otherwise you can choose another way to find GOD.. He simply tell us the way to find God. For example if we want to make new food recipe then we will follow the instructions of any experienced person and get results. In the same way we need a experienced person when we want to go a new journey which we never did before. So find the results to follow his instructions.

[Isha]

Mr. Amar,
What is your problem?? why are you blaming. What you want. Please don't irritate everyone.
Stop every time wright to negative things. If you have such problem then you ask questions directly the front of Babaji.
Why are you misguide everyone.

[Vijay]

One I Love what you wrote to Amar. Hope he heeds your advise and the negativity vanishes.
Your comments are always a pleasure to read.

[Amar]

No worries people. I'm doing what I feel is right on my end. I do my meditation. Just throwing info out there and some people don't have a direct answer. That's okay.

What you interpret as hate, is just frustration. The reason I keep repeating this stuff is that if we don't, and remain silent like RSSB higher ups are doing and hoping it just dies away, then it will get forgotten and swept under the rug.

I actually like Vijay's comments because he has taken the time to actually go thru the information and then form his opinion. Doesn't match my opinions, but that's okay too. That's cool. I just like giving him a hard time.

And One, in response to your comment, read my comments above, you are wrong. I am at peace, I'm free. I am disturbed at the fact that others are in denial of these events. You can read whatever emotion you want into the comments, that's your take on it, because you don't agree with the fact that GSD has done wrong. That's your opinion, not mine.

I'm in a much better place these days. But at least I'm not in denial.

[Vinny]

In Satya desh there was ocean of spirit with no tendency for outward action.
"Kal" wanted the tendency to do outward action and therefore have seperate existence from Sat Purush. This tendency for outward action will create all kinds of actions, it will create weapons and atom bombs and then put those weapons in the hands of innocent people by second action.

By third action people use those weapons and crimes happen. By fourth action they are tried under penal code as criminals. This good-bad action is network of Kal to trap the Soul. "Kal" was expelled from higher spirit regions because "Kal" wanted separate kingdom to rule over Souls by hook or crook. "Kal" has no sympathy for suffering of innocent Souls. "Kal" is brutal ruler of this plane. In countries like India and Pakistan,these weapons have totally destroyed the fabric of society. People were living happily even in poverty due to faith in the teachings of Saints/Sufis. Now with the factories of alcohol/tobacco and guns our own flesh and blood/ our own people are labelled as criminals.
Poverty did not end with these alcohol and gun factories plus it has created criminals out of innocent human beings. It has destroyed India and Pakistan much more than it has damaged America.

I end it with Sufi Poetry of Baba Bulleh Shah
Bulleh Shah pata tad lag see
Jado chidi fasi hath baazan

[When a sparraow/person becomes victim of snare of falcons/Kal, then one understands
the pain of victims]

[Kartik]

I don't know why you are more concerned about money rather than God. He is not a business man, but he is a spiritual master. He doesn't not care about money. He just care about their disciples. One more thing, Baba ji and his family are two different entities. If his family involved in something, then it doesnt mean that he is also involved in that. His work is just to take our soul and drop it to the destination(One God). From Sant Kabir, Guru Ravidas, Guru Nanak to Baba Gurinder Singh ji, everyone did the same. He is also doing the same thing.

[Gurmeet]

1st of all i just want to say all chelle of radhaswami . Gand mrvayo saleyo.
Then i have to add normal buzz .

Look dear one when a man know very well that what our guru and god say why they people just criticise for money or other things. They have ton of money unlimited land but the qustion is , for what ? Where is the word sewa. Satsang is not like the thing where all people . Satsang is only the thing where all disagree people will meat and find the truth. A man who belive he is guru then how that man think he is in onness with only have egoic poit of view. Meditation is not something like sit and thinking or not thinking. Meditation is just liveing in truth. And stand on reality truth. And that is here and Now. I apology for my kind word. Everyone will get what it deserve. I know the things and it hurt me thank you

Namaste

[Osho Robbins]

Amar,
There is no need to be disturbed by the denial of others any more than the believers get disturbed by those who choose to leave. To each their own.

That is peace.

Being disturbed is not peace.

You can question and inform, but why get disturbed if others don’t agree.

I don’t agree with Gurinder’s answer that meditation is needed, but so what. I sure he is not upset or disturbed.

[Amar]

Gurmeet, you're an idiot. If you want to swear, put it in English. Don't put it phonetically in Hindi/Punjabi so Brian can't figure it out. Doesn't matter if you agree with things or not. I don't care, but at least make a point of it, instead of just calling out all RS people.

[kunal Arora]

If u have confusion Gurmeet around money or anything so please visit Gurudwaras, where u can see millions of rupees. Everyday in any of the big Gurudwaras people present so much if money, where is that going? It is going in the pocket of president of Gurudwaras, this is the truth and reality

[j]

"Nobody would imagine [Gurinder Singh] has just lost 500 million dollars." --

The strange fruit of Satsangi morality. A guru likely has abetted a process of bad loans that provided him and his near and dear with $500 million dollars...and when a court rules that these were ill-gotten gains, the Gurus followers turn the scandal completely around, making the bizarre claim that the Guru has in fact *lost* 500 million dollars that was rightfully his...and yet is cheerful as fuck about this unjust reversal of fortune, thus proving his spiritual majesty.

And...the Guru's sangat was respectfully silent about this scandal, indicating not total ignorance, and not slavish devotion to their leader, and not fear of speaking up.... but that they know what's really important -- utter detachment from piddly and picayune matters of illegal and unpaid loans of 500 million dollars (if their Guru is said to be involved).

That sucking sound going through Banwar Gupha is the shabd of the moral vacuum.

[Georgy Porgy]

Yep thought so - just hot air then.

When is somebody actually going to just go ask the guru these questions, rather than all these underhanded 2nd or 3rd hand cowardly reports about what he/she said.

Does anyone have any testacles?

Maybe the ladies ?

[Vinny]

Juvenile offender beheaded. Amnesty International is outraged at the recent beheading of a child offender in Saudi Arabia. [ amnesty.org] I am not implying that India and Pakistan are better in any way how juveniles become victims of circumstances/ which society calls crime.

Sufi Poetry
Rabb jaaney kai deeghan paiyyan
Lakh saal gayey nahin aayey
[I look at the barren utensils, lakhs/hundred thousand of years have passed. But the person who used to eat from these utensils has not returned]
Yaar Farid aabad jeevan eh jyotan
Rabb pher peeran no basaawey
[if he has been beheaded the Soul lives on. I pray for love of Saints in the heart of executioner which was missing when he beheaded the adolescent]
Palak palak pardesiyan karan
Meri akhiyaan Sawan laayey
[ The adolescent beheaded was not my brother/relative, in fact a complete stranger. But I weep as if my own brother has been beheaded]

[Amar]

kunal, so what's your point? This is the new norm now? It's okay to do this?
If the mandirs do it, the gurdwaras, and church's do it, then by default it's open season for guru's also?

[Osho Robbins]

The reason I wrote about meditation in the letter to Brian, was because GSD previously had said that meditation was simply to make you give up and let go. Not in order to reach certain regions, hence my interpretation that meditation is NOT needed. In Sunday he was very much saying it is needed in order to experience the "merging"

Like I said, I don't agree. I think its far more conducive to contemplate on the real implications of ONENESS, which will destroy your concepts of how real duality is. Anything that ends cannot be ultimate reality.

Meditation on that can lead to oneness, not meditation on five holy names.

Someone asked about jadoo (magic) and he said no such thing. Then as an afterthought he said "hey is there a jadoo I can use to make the sangat meditate?"

[George]

It’s unlikely that questions on the financial scandal will come up in Q&A sessions, as 1) people who’ve been paying attention to the scandal have stopped attending satsangs and have given up on RSSB, 2) there have been reports of death threats by RSSB so people are afraid to ask questions, 3) longer term, I expect media reports will die down as RSSB will pay off politicians and judges to make the issue go away. This is unfortunately how things work in India, and also means that we may never know the truth about GSD.

[rekha]

i rekha has gr8 trust on my guru. and i will not listen a dingle word from osho or anyone else who themselves are meking money on the name of my guru.aise

[Jesse]

"Gurbani says there is no “me” or individual soul"

To say that there is no individual soul in Gurbani is stupid. There are probably 1000 or more lines distinguishing man's soul from God. This isn't "One" in the way you imagine it. Even the words "ek oankar" could be construed to mean more than one because you and I are not that ek oankar. But either way you are the jivatma or whatever term they use most frequently.

Why do you even say things like that? You seem to be asking this guru the same crap endlessly for years on end and making no progress at all in anything whatsoever. Give up on your pursuit of getting Gurinder Singh to answer your same repetitive autistic question in the same predictable way. It serves no purpose, and has no value other than annoying me and impressing Brian.

[Jatinder Singh Sootardhar]

Ever you tried the method which Babaji prrscribes.if not , just try it for full 2.5 hrs.for not less than two months continuously. You will definitely see with your own eyes that what He preaches is only truth. As for as the borrowings are concerned that is family matter which is not connected to spirituality. So waste your time celebrating at own cost.

[Osho Robbins]

Jesse
Paltu ikoi ik hai, dusar nahin koi.
There is only one, there is no other.

One means non-duality.

Gurbani and GSD both clearly state that oneness is the truth.

Everything in duality perishes. Only oneness remains.

[OshoRobbins]

Jesse
Check this out from 6 mins into the video.
https://youtu.be/M7A9qZEBVh8

Explanation of the ONE

[Q]

Asking Gurinder some philosophical armchair question pertaining to "oneness" instead of about the scandal is such a wasted opportunity. Rather disappointing. Sant Mat 2.0 ethics lost in space!

[Vinny]

Can anyone give the name of book in which that incident of Baba Sawan Singh watching over dynamite blast to create roads in the mountains, one mishap was prevented by some miracle when the lace of the dynamite which was ignited by his junior staff got extinguished by miraculous divine incident.

[Dogribb]

David Lane I hadn’t thought about Johnson and his books and how helped usher me into RSSB for quite some time.I’ll give your pdf a look.Ive always thought of RSSB and The Theosophical Society in similar Light ;) Here is something you may find interesting.https://ses.library.usyd.edu.au/bitstream/2123/5991/1/The%20Theosophical%20Crisis%20in%20Australia.pdf

[Meditator]

Had it not be a multimillion dollars issue and crisis situation in His family which got erupted in the media with subsequent Courts gagging orders the matters would have no credence even if raised over here or elsewhere.

For me He is in trouble for whatsoever. reason and. the Guru and. Guru's family needs escape route which His lovers. must think over and deliberate to suggest. some practical answer to Him or His family members.

In the process some may ask how did He or His. Family members. got into this mega trouble. That may help us. understand the. Real story as also help He in real sense.

[Vinny]

Escape route for anyone can not be different from other people who become victims of traps. We all live in the same region of Kal. In fact it was the other way round in the times of Baba Jaimal Singh and Baba Sawan Singh. People who became victims of traps of Kal/ so called justice system of Earth used to get relief from the trap. If any master cannot save himself from traps set up by Kal/negative power. Is he really a living master or has the same spiritual level as ordinary run of the mill disciples. People have already contributed in cash and kind for this organization. My practical answer : The jury who is seeing this case. Do they have any family member who has been a part of RSSB or other branches of Radha Swami except Beas?? That family member of jury may understand the whole trap and pray to his master Baba Charan Singh or Baba Sawan Singh or any other master of Radha Swami lineage in his/her meditation for mercy and grace.

[OshoRobbins]

@jesse
Gurbani is misunderstood. The mool mantar is saying there is only one.
Beyond time and space; changeless; unborn;
Gurprashad means, you realise him by the grace Of the guru.
Jap means to contemplate.
It means think deeply about it and you will realise it.
Repeating or reciting is useless.

And you cannot experience god or merge in him; because you are already the ONE and you are not the body or a soul.

Gurinder says all this, but says meditation is the means to realise it

[Jesse]

Osho, there are so many contradictory ideas in "gurbani" it's not worth talking about. I couldn't care less about any of it.

YOU just told ME to watch A VIDEO about "THE ONE." That's 4 distinct things right there in one sentence. Any underlying unifying property that we philosophize about is a waste of time and asking Gurinder Singh Dhillon about it is embarrassing not once, but multiplied by a million. You might as well dance naked and chant hare krishna.

You cannot, because you know, the whole YOU thing, experience any sort of oneness. You're doomed to suffer from objects and subjects until you die. But go ahead and ramble on like a hippy talking about stupid concepts that you inherited from your soma drinking ancestors. My ancestors discussed the same things with different drugs, and they're equally dead and equally wrong about everything.

Oneness only exists on paper or on drugs

[Jen]

OshoRobbins: "Jap means to contemplate. 
It means think deeply about it and you will realise it."

I like this because my whole life has been a search, contemplation, watching, seeing, thinking deeply, being aware of self and others, becoming the eagle or the phoenix, the observer... transformation is the aim (takes a lifetime) hopefully...

Not relying on another just simply being the best we can. Watching and waiting. Forgiveness is important.

Sorry if I'm preachy. Just embracing hippy talk and New Age thinking... way to go... for me!

Gurbani quote: "The World is a Drama Staged in a Dream" Guru Nanak Dev Ji.

[Vinny]

This Sufi Poetry epitomizes it all.
Tasbeeh key daanon kou bikharney nahin detey
Jisko banatey hein phir bigadney nahin detey
[Perfect Living Master who has merged himself in Satpurush , he wouldn't let Kal/negative power play games with his disciples]
This good bad karma theory, God/ Creator theory, Mercy and Grace are already present in many books. People don't make a Guru to listen to these theories. They are already in books. If any Guru cannot help the disciple when Kal has trapped the sincere disciple by network of karma, that Guru is useless for the disciple.

If a fifth class child starts repeating the expression " Atomic Physics" "Atomic Physics" Will he become Physicist?? Whole consciousness has to change , just by repeating one expression like parrot you don't merge in Satpurush/ Primal cause / Primal being.

[OshoRobbins]

@jesse
Your argument shows you misunderstand, but as you stated that you couldn't care less, it is a non issue.

However, just for the benefit of others, let me clarify.

Clearly, gurbani is not saying that there is LITERALLY only the ONE. What it is saying is: the underlying reality is ONENESS. Everything else is in a state of change.
Gurbani calls it koor (rubbish) meaning that it will all end. So all this exists but only for a while, like the waves of the ocean.
Using the wave / ocean metaphor, only the ocean exists. Clearly at any moment in time we can see waves, and many of them, but within a matter of seconds, they will be GONE, and will be replaced by other waves, which will also merge back into the ocean.

So we can say, "the ocean is real, the waves are just momentary.

Of course they exist in any given moment. You are using the argument that waves exist in the moment, to somehow mean that waves are real.

Waves are momentary. Not eternal. That waves come and go, the ocean remains.

In the same way, all you can see will go. But the ONENESS remains.

Except, unlike the analogy of the ocean, you can't SEE the ONENESS because its not a THING.

If it was a thing, it wouldn't be eternal.
Gurbani calls it " nirgun" meaning "no attributes".
So it means god (ONENESS) is NOT love, is not good or bad. Any statement you make about the ONE will be wrong.

It also means that god does not hear your prayers, or judge you, or watch you or protect you. So the hard atheist is right, there is no personal god.

That is what Nanak is saying.

The reason? So you stop seeking a Mr God

[OshoRobbins]

"Oneness exists only on paper or on drugs" - Jesse.

You are wrong. It does not exist at all. Because only "things" exist. ONENESS is not a thing.
You cannot see it, experience it, or merge into it. Because all those actions happen in duality.

Interestingly, GSD made the same argument as you, in previous discussions. He said, "so you don't see any people here?"
He did not understand my answer so it seems you are in good company.

[Jesse]

"That is what Nanak is saying."

Well I'm glad the expert has weight in on what Guru Nanak REALLY meant in all his poems. The days of speculation are over. SOAS is shutting down their Sikhism department and just posting your quote on a wall somewhere.

You're doing a lot of what is called "jabbering about nonsense." Just as the people who you borrow your ideas did. There is no value to speculating on the nature of the universe unless you are joining a cult that requires you to do so for social points. You can't prove this oneness. It's a human idea that will be debated until mankind kills itself off with nukes.

If you're so obsessed with Sikhism though, I should warn you now that Sikhs generally only talk about hair and food. You might find 3 Sikhs in Canada or UK who have these discussions about the things Sikhism copied from Vedanta while pretending that they're original ideas, but the average Sikh only cares about hair and food. I guess the women also lament the birth of other females as well and openly discuss killing them. But you will likely only talk to dudes.

By the way, am I the only person who feels an extreme tension when I visit a Gurdwara and literally everyone has like 4 sons and no daughters? I can't even step foot in those places anymore. It's the worst vibe ever.

[OshoRobbins]

@jesse
I am not obsessed with Sikhism any more than I am obsessed with RSSB.

I have an interest in both in so far as the truth behind the concepts. Both RSSB and Sikhism have concepts that lead the follower onto a different path (duality) if misunderstood.
Sikhism has become about the external. Nanak never had a sword and never believed in the 10 gurus (they didn't exist during his time) so he fails the current qualification of a Sikh.

Sikhism is a religion. RSSB is also a religion. Both have gone far away from what they are based on.

Oneness is not just an armchair discussion. It is a moment of awakening to the true nature of oneness. Its what happened to Nanak when he apparently drowned and disappeared for three days. He was contemplating (jap) then shared the results in japji.
Wasn't meant for parrot like repetition. Was meant to be understood.

After understanding correctly, you drop the duality ideas of a separate self.

Now you cannot seek a sach khand because it cannot exist as a place.

You cannot even meditate because the reason for the meditation has gone.

No sach khand, no sat purush. So what are you trying to attain by meditation?

There is only emptiness and no YOU.
Nanak cuts at the root. The YOU that you think you are (body, mind, soul) does not exist except for a short while so its not real.

Of course it exists in the moment only, and Nanak calls that unreal or Maya.

[Vinny]

If one cannot experience the primal source / primal cause/one ; all these scriptures/Gurus are useless. When the being of person who is living in duality will experience the one, it will be experience from duality to one. Anyone saying it cannot be experienced is again parroting like idiot. When a person has dream / he is experiencing something, when a person wakes up/ he now has added experience of wakefulness plus the experience of dream. When a fifth class child passes the 10th class he has experience of 5th class plus 6th class plus 7th class plus 8th class plus 9th class plus 10th class. All living things experience from birth to death/ maybe even beyond death. To say that living things are like non living things/cannot experience is mental retardation of highest order. That person needs mental asylum. In fact it was the experience of Saints/Mystics which inspired them to write scriptures.

[Michael Charles]

oneness
/ˈwʌnnəs/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
the fact or state of being unified or whole, though comprised of two or more parts.
"the oneness of all suffering people"
2.
the fact or state of being one in number.
"holding to the oneness of God the Father as the only God"

[Daljit]

Jesse said "Osho, there are so many contradictory ideas in "gurbani" it's not worth talking about. I couldn't care less about any of it."

Quote: The opposite of truth is another profound truth.

There are so many contradictions in Gurbani because there are so many contradictions in reality.
Truth is beyond understanding, reasoning and logic. It cannot be boxed.

Gurbani says Ek Hai. Anek Hai.
He is one. He is many. He is beyond one and many.

[OshoRobbins]

"Truth is beyond reasoning, understanding and logic" - Daljit

Oneness is beyond time and space, which is precisely why you cannot use the reasoning. It is also why you cannot encompass it into an experience. Of course you can have an experience, but the experience is not it.

Because the experience happens in duality.

However there is a realization that comes once you put all the pieces of the puzzle together.

In that realization you know that you do not exist as a separate entity. Only the ocean is, you are a passing wave, so you drop the identification with the separate being.

Now all seeking stops because there is nothing to seek. No heaven, no God, no goal.

[Vinny]

When told you need mental asylum for parroting idiotic ideas, parrot becomes Prince Charles. Do we have extravaganza of idiots?? Such idiots are dangerous for society.

[Jesse]

"all these scriptures/Gurus are useless."

Thank you for saying this, Vinny. It's the only portion of your screed that anyone can use to their benefit.

[Jesse]

"Oneness is not just an armchair discussion. It is a moment of awakening to the true nature of oneness. Its what happened to Nanak when he apparently drowned and disappeared for three days. He was contemplating (jap) then shared the results in japji.
Wasn't meant for parrot like repetition. Was meant to be understood. "

"There is only emptiness and no YOU. "

Once again, thank you for clarifying what a 15th century poet REALLY meant and for explaining the true nature of the universe.

It's certainly something the world doesn't have enough of. People making claims about the absolute nature of reality and their unique knowledge of an access to it is rare. I can think of nothing in this world lacking more than this. And though there are millions of cosmological maps out there, it most DEFINITELY is the Indian ones that you personally grew up around and heard every day of your life that are true. Because reasons.

Certainly, there is no personal bias. It's just that it must be true. Oneness has to be true. Just because.

You people are hopeless and sick. You don't know anything. You're going to continue cursing this world forever with your ideas, none of which are original, none of which can be proven one way or another.

[Jesse]

"There is only emptiness and no YOU. "

There is only fullness. There is only you.

There is no oneness. Only the infinite many.

There is no unity. Only individuation and separation.

Stop talking about things you don't know. Be honest for once instead of trying to hold yourself above others as some sort of spiritually enlightened person. You're just a dude who tried to start a youtube cult and is still trying to prove something that nobody cares about. You're not enlightened. You don't know what oneness is any more than I do. You're just a guy typing on the internet who is not one with the universe. When you're not here you're at some satsang trying to get attention by asking stupid questions publicly. You'll never be anyone's guru. Give up.

Anyone with a shred of decency and honesty responds to these questions the exact same way and says "I have no idea." Everyone saying one single word more than "I don't know" is deceiving you and lying. They have hidden agendas and psychological motives.

[Vinny]

These are very cunning people. Now when they realize that they don't have the either the technology of the west plus flop version of Gurudom/Guru in present times they have started talking this rubbish and non sense.These are hypocrites of highest order. These hypocrites were slaves
of British Empire. Now with their flop version of Gurudom they may again become slaves for few thousand years. These hypocrites are walking on the path of self-destruction by fake Gurudom hiding in one. Their one = one parrot + one imposter = Gurudom of "One"

[Jesse]

Vinny, get some rest. You are high on drugs and doing stream of consciousness babble. You're in a hallucinogenic time trip seeing Brits and glowing iPhones in some sort of psychedelic vision that seems real to you, but nobody else knows what you're talking about. The British Empire has nothing to do with anything in the slightest and China is the real producer of tech now.

When the substances wear off you'll know what I'm talking about.

Sleep it off and get back to us when you've recovered and the rave promoters have packed up the sound system.

[Fairy]

You can still read on the official RSSB site under the headings Newspaper Articles a very long explanation about the demise of the Singh brothers.
My "take" on it is the following:
Ranbir Singh and Gurbac Singh started Ranbaxy in 1937. A distrubutor for Japenese Pharmaceuticals. The Singh brothers' paternal grandfather, Bai Mohan Singh bought the company in 1952 from his two above mentioned cousins.His son was Pavinder Singh. He had other sons. Pavinder married Nimmie, Charan Singh's (Grewal) daughter. Malvinder and Shivinder are their sons. Charan's grandsons (maternal) and Pavinder's (paternal). There was some family trouble with Pavinder's brothers and Nimmie in 1989 over some real estate in an affluent area. Google Nimmie Singh and you can find this information.
The RSSB official site has a really long article explaining everything under Newspaper articles. Also, there, there is another article about RSSB's finances. I still found these articles. They have not been removed. So Gurinder has certainly not been silent on these matters. It is all there to read. This appears to me to have been an ongoing family situation since Charan's time. Pavinder was talked about as being Charan's successor, but Charan had other ideas and chose Gurinder, his nephew, and Nimmie's first cousin. Gurinder is Malvinder and Shivinder's second cousin. Pavinder, the Singh brothers' father died in 1999.
Now the xenophobic whale eaters and dolphin killers, ( Japanese Company) have been involved with Ranbaxy for years. First under the name of Shionogi. Ranbaxy was a distrubutor for them in the start up early days. So who tainted the drugs now, then? And why did Diachii complain 4 years later? To my mind everyone is corrupt, the rich get wealthy by money laundering. Every company does it and gets away with it.
My thoughts are, that Gurinder inherited a huge family disruption, so very complicated, involving his cousin's husbands family (Nimmie and co and her brothers in law) and Gurinder has tried to frankly get them out if the "shit". Give the man a break. I bet every single Indian business, money launders. Just some bad real estate deals unfortunately and a whole lot of jealously about the huge amount of land control and ownership and government influence the extended family has/ had. Plus the huge growth and influence of RSSB from a political perspective.
I could be wrong mind you.

Sorry for all my typos, hard to see on phone!

[Fairy]

Osho,
I relate to what you are saying. It is the Buddhist concept of Emptiness. The Heart Sutra.
The only permanence is impermanence! Your analogy of the ocean and the waves.
In infinity you are always at the centre, so, if in fact there be infinity then there is only one space to reside in. If there be eternity then you are always present. All the aggregates create the ONE and the ONE resides in the aggregates. Which actually equates to emptiness.

[Amar]

Fairy, the links are no longer on the RSSB website. If you Google, you can find them, but the official website has been cleaned of these, since June 2019.

Malvinder and Shivinder sold Ranbaxy when they knew they were in trouble with the FDA. That's why they sold it to Daiichi. Daiichi turned around and sold it again to Sun Pharma years later. They did not wait 4 years to complain. The FDA within months of the sale came down hard on Ranbaxy. It's been going on for years.

There's a lot of stuff behind the scandal. To say that GSD was just helping out and was naive to everything is not realistic. Read through the posts by Tara on this blog. I believe Brian even compiled her posts into one really big one in late 2018. A real eye opener. She was close to GSD and knew the inner workings of RSSB.

Please take the time to read them.

[Fairy]

Jen, You always have kindness in your heart. It is through kindness and compassion, we find peace and contentment.

[Fairy]

Hi Amar
Thanks. It is all so very complicated isn't it? I am not exonerating him. It is just the culture of the majority of those in the top percentile in the entire world who money launder, and get away with it. Is that so naive of me?
I have just read an interesting article from 2012 entitled "Why Made In India Is Just a Slogan."
I wonder why we are all connected and caught up in this? Gathered together under one mind and thought process, The Plight ( Light!!) Of Sant Mat. It was my 30 year "initiation" day 23 July 1989. I am absolutely not in any way shape or form remotely any more initiated in my now! But oh, how I love doing nothing!🧚😇🙏

[OshoRobbins]

Fairy,
We all like permanence. We like the idea that we will be around forever. Obviously we cannot remain alive in the same body forever, so we accept second best; we say that "my SOUL will be around forever because souls don't die."
But the problem we then have is that the soul will reincarnate and we don't like the idea of bring an insect or an animal in our next life.
I mean who wants to be a spider, a mouse, or a dog in their next life.

Sant mat offers a solution: get initiated and you will never reincarnate below a human.

Well that's one big problem solved, thank God.

But what we really want is to go to sach khand, and remain there at the holy feet of Sat Purush.

So we are prepared to meditate as long as the guru promises to come at the time of death and take care of our soul.

Even if we dont reach Sach Khand, the guru will allow us to meditate while residing in the higher regions.

Not a bad result.

However, Guru Gurinder has ruined our great plan by saying he is not coming at the time of our death.

So initially we deny he even said that. But he keeps on saying it, and can't be ignored.

And without his coming at death, our while plan of salvation is ruined.

Charan Singh initiates can say "well charan will come for ME, so Gurinder can just carry in, MY guru is Charan and He IS coming at my death"

Problem solved. MY salvation is secure, thank God for Charan, bless his soul.

To be continued ..........

[OshoRobbins]

So my point is that until BabaJi Gurinder came along, everything was just fine and dandy, or at least fine.

Hence the reason people in the sangat don't like it when I get on the mic.

I am ruining their salvation. Their perfect plan is falling apart.

But now let's deal with the REAL issue.

Each RSSB follower is a disciple for a REASON. The reason is that they WANT something.

They want their SOUL to go to Sach Khand. So they meditate.

Its hard work, but the end result will be worth it. You just wait until I "go inside" and meet the radiant form of my master. But it takes a while, so in the meantime I will perform seva for my GuruJi. At least it will help.

Good plan. Just one downside: its not going to work, because BabaJi keeps throwing a spanner in the works.

He says things like, "there is only the ONE" but of course I don't get what he means. "ONE what?"
Perhaps he means ONE GOD which I am fine with.

This is the dilemma the sangat is in. They cannot afford to let go of the traditional teaching; there is too much at stake.

So what exactly is BabaJi REALLY saying? And WHY is he hell bent on ruining my spiritual journey?

To be continued.........

[OshoRobbins]

Dealing with the truth.

First of all, BabaJi Gurinder is not giving out the full truth. He is adding a buffer, a safety margin, perhaps because none of the followers can handle it.

He is still sugar coating the truth.

What truth?

That there is no YOU, hence nobody needs to be saved.

You don't have a SOUL.

The sugar coating is that you are the SOUL and you need to meditate to MERGE into GOD.

The untainted version is: there IS and never has been a separate self (soul).

So there is no salvation to be worked towards.

Your soul cannot go to Sach Khand because of two reasons
1. There is no soul
2. There is no Sach Khand

There is only the ONE. You are a delusion. A wave of the ocean. You don't need saving because you are not even real.
But you THINK you are real and that is called haumi.
Haumi= the notion that "I" exist.

for Jesse, let me clarify: the body exists in THIS moment, but will die.

And no soul is going to leave the body and go anywhere.

You cannot be saved because a wave cannot be saved. The ocean is already saved, because it never becomes a wave.

[Fairy]

Osho, I am under no illusion. When I was"initiated" initially, and then later at the Dera by Charan in the November of 1989, I never in my heart ever really believed all that stuff ( other than Surat Shabd Yog - that makes SOUND sense to me) and I did not enjoy the Dera one little bit! I do love going to the Mahayana Buddhist centres though. Small and very personal with great thought provoking teachings with opportunities encouraged to question concepts. I am of the belief that true Science of the Soul and The Quantum Physics behind Mahayana Buddhism is where intellectual satisfaction can be found. I have never in my heart of hearts really believed in a Master. I still do not understand the true meaning of a "Guru". My undestanding is, you have many teachers on the way. Life is your greatest Guru, I think.
Nobody is coming for me at my death. Whatever I may "see" "hear" or "smell" will be of my own hallucinating mind. No doubts about that. It is time to make our OWN way in the world. (And in my death!)If there is such a thing a reincarnation ( I do believe, but nobody or mind I should say, really knows for sure) then where my continum goes, who knows? Maybe to nowhere! I love the movie "Lucy" with Scarlett Johansson. It is so good!🧚😇🙏
Of course, I could always wake up a fairy with my virtual reality glasses off when I discard this body, my current vehicle to function in this physical plane of matter.

Jesse
I think you say many realistic things, and often your comments make me laugh, because many are very funny in a grumpy kind of a way. Why are you so cross all the time? Regardless, I enjoy all of these satsangs here on Brian's Blog.🙏😂💫

[seeker]

Where is Tara these days? @Brian are you still in touch with her? What is her opinion about all that's happening?

[Vinny]

Now parrots of Gurudom are again playing cheap diversion tricks. Forget Sachkhand for a moment/5 years. if he thinks that all this Gurudom is rubbish why he is enjoying all the benefits of being a Guru under a trust by accepting land and donations.These cunning people of Punjab were slaves of Mughals and Brtitish Empire. These are double headed snakes which will be destroyed by Kal/time. Their Kal/time of destruction has arrived. Now weep double headed snakes. Now look below the excerpt from news article what these snakes are doing.

Tribune News Service

Chandigarh, July 22 [Excerpt from the full news article]

Acting on a petition filed in public interest alleging that the Beas had unnaturally changed
its course by about 2 km resulting in loss of about 2,500 acres of cultivable land due
to illegal mining and illegal extension of boundaries of a dera, the Punjab and Haryana
High Court today directed the state government to decide a representation in the matter.
The direction by the Bench headed by Justice Rajiv Sharma came after the petitioner,
Lok Bhalai Insaf Welfare Society, stated that agriculturist and their families lost
their livelihood following change in the course of the Beas “due to illegal mining
being carried out in the riverbed and because of the activities undertaken
by Dera Radha Swami Satsang Beas, wherein they are extracting sand from the
river bed as well as extending the boundaries of the dera illegally”.

[OshoRobbins]

Following on from the previous posts;

Real means that which remains forever.
Nanak calls it "sat"
Beyond time and space.

The unreal by contrast means that which changes.
So we are unreal.
The unreal cannot have salvation , cannot be saved.
The real is already saved.
So all that happens with "realization" is that you let go of the "you" that you think you are.
Hence you stop seeking salvation.
Buddha called it nirvana. The end of all struggle.

[Amar]

Hi Vinny. This land grab and encroachment thing has been going on for decades.
Dera's boundaries are along the Beas River, so wherever it shifts, so does the boundary. The politicians, right form the village sarpanch's to the MP's are either satsangi's or they are under the influence of RSSB, either thru mutual understandings or for vote bank perceptions. This will continue on until they really piss off a big politician like Modi or someone. Unfortunately, RSSB may go thru the right channels, but the people who make the decisions probably acquiesce to the permits for fear of repercussions. The locals are not advised or consulted in this process.

Just my take on it. It's not right, but if RSSB goes thru the proper permitting and gets approvals, you can't do much about it. It falls on the local permitting board and politicians to answer for it. Like i said, someone big or powerful will have to get railroaded along the way and that's when RSSB will be on it's heels.

Like what happened in Asola. Buildings were demolished, not just RSSB's but a lot of people were encroaching on the land, and the government bull dozed everything to the ground.

[j]

Sant mat is all about real estate.

Securing your mansion in the highest heaven via "the path."

Increasing the real estate of the dera and its satellites throughout the world.

Building a real estate empire via loans from corporations controlled by satsangis.

Whatever we think about all of that, we have to admit that Sawan Singh was no dummy. Sawan knew that real estate was the best means to secure RSSB's future, and the living expenses of the gurus who came after him.

[Vinny]

David C Lane's research opens new paradigm " Access to Higher Realms Without Ownership" This paradigm seems to comes out of his book "The Unknowing Sage" with the blunt talk of Baba Faqir Chand. I am simplifying it by following example. If someone has given you library I card to use that library you can go to that library, read books but you don't have ownership of books. You can't take all the books home saying they are mine. Of course you can take one or two books for reading for a certain time, then also you have to return those books. if you don't return you pay the fine. Similarly with training of consciousness, anyone can access those higher realms and even predict or know many things of future but you don't own those realms like you don't own the library after making the I card for using it. This has dangerous implications which can destroy the Gurudom part of Sant-Mat. Anyone can access those realms and know what he wants to know without any ownership. Baba Faqir Chand was dead right, Gurus were misusing their identity as mere visitors to library and they were projecting to the world that as if they were owners of higher realms. It was cheating, pure and simple, cheating innocent gullible people to have absolute control over them. This has dangerous implications, this means that like air, water, sunlight those realms are for everyone. None has ownership of those realms. David C Lane should come here and clarify. I give "him" permission to use the expression " Access to Higher Realms Without Ownership" for title of his next book.

[Jesse]

"Real means that which remains forever."

A definition worth nothing more than a pile of feces. Real in no way needs to mean eternally real or permanent.

Your asking for everyone to accept an entire hypothesis grounded on a completely made up assumption for no reason other than that shankarcharya, nanak or whatever other cultural heroes you like said so.

Total garbage.

[Vinny]

"Access to Higher Realms Without Ownership" has even more dangerous consequences than mentioned above in my previous post. This also implies that " Christian Section of Higher Realms Library" is the most dangerous section. When Jesus said be pure as dove sly as snake, he was absolutely correct. If a Christian Woman marries any cunning [Hindu or Sikh], she can spill all the secrets of Christian Dominance over the Earth resulting in downfall of Christians as ruling force over this Earth. This means not all Christians know those secrets which is understandable.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hey Jesse like the wise Fairy’s recent comment and others previously, I find many of your posts really funny. Brian could collate a history of them into some sort of book of one-liners about Barbed Baba and Bullshit Bashing. I had another look at some of your recent offerings and added a few comments:

9.7 - ’Previously Prem was "Lord of the Universe" and "Guru Maharaj Ji" etc just like all of them. Now he's just a low key public speaker who wears a suit.’

Imagine going from the Lord of the Universe to becoming one of ‘us’, does he also sell vacuum cleaners?

24.7 - You’re doomed to suffer from objects and subjects until you die. But go ahead and ramble on like a hippy talking about stupid concepts that you inherited from your soma drinking ancestors. My ancestors discussed the same things with different drugs, and they're equally dead and equally wrong about everything.

Ah the human condition - this blog may help with the Oneness.
The soma question - well said. When I read this I had a picture of all these stoned/DMT loaded Shamans dancing around Gobalki Tepe - 10,000BC. Is this where it all started?

25.7 - Any underlying unifying property that we philosophize about is a waste of time and asking Gurinder Singh Dhillon about it is embarrassing not once, but multiplied by a million. You might as well dance naked and chant hare krishna.

Point is that the vast majority are not going to bother with this -too hard basket. No one is going to bother much even if you do a naked Hare Krishna - an interesting picture!
I once washed pots in a HK restaurant - those guys are a wild bunch, the secret lies in eating heaps of sugared up halava. I really fancied one of the women who served the food … but she got married off.
It’s interesting why Krishna and a lot of these other big players are blue in colour e.g. Shiva, denizens of inner regions, Blue Meanies (Yellow Submarine), - they’re either really cold or there’s something in it…

25.7 - You can't prove this oneness. It's a human idea that will be debated until mankind kills itself off with nukes.
If you're so obsessed with Sikhism though, I should warn you now that Sikhs generally only talk about hair and food.

Now this is a very important piece of info, thanks for the heads up :-)

25.7 - And though there are millions of cosmological maps out there, it most DEFINITELY is the Indian ones that you personally grew up around and heard every day of your life that are true. Because reasons.

Because Reasons - priceless comment, love it, must remember to use it - powerful magic.

25.7 - The world is a giant plate of infinitely self replicating spaghetti noddles. Prove me wrong.

Great point - kind of a weird twisted zen thing. We need to embrace noodle consciousness - it’s an infinite loop.

Thanks for the laughs!

[Amar]

Hey, if there's such a thing as noodle consciousness, count me in! Dinner at Jesse's place tonite. I'll bring the garlic bread!

[Jen]

Tim, I did a search on spaghetti noddles, its disappeared except for your comment, the whole sentence has been deleted? Such a pity, I thought it was really funny in a strange way... :(

[Jesse]

Tim, it's funny because everything I say is as wrong as what everyone else says. I'm laughing at all of humanity grasping at straws while the rest of humanity laughs at me for doing the same. We're all doomed, and it's great.