Excellent letter to the editor about RSSB guru's financial scandal

Great comments from Church of the Churchless visitors keep on coming to this blog.

Here's one by "j" that consists of a letter to the editor about Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) who is deeply involved in a financial scandal involving many hundreds of millions of dollars.

It's a great idea, sharing a letter to the editor that can be used by people in other cities where RSSB has a large meeting center that the guru visits.

This is a great example of the hypocrisy of religious leaders, since Dhillon preaches in his talks about living an honest, simple life, yet has been busily engaged in vastly enriching himself and his family through decidedly shady practices.

About the only quibble I have with this letter, and it's a small one, is that the siphoning of money also involved close associates of the guru such as his right hand man, Sunil Godhwani, who was installed as the head of Religare at the guru's urging, then proceeded to funnel money into the pockets of the Dhillon family and other people associated with the guru.

So instead of saying "run by the guru's family members" in the Here's the gist paragraph, it'd be a bit more accurate to say "run by the guru's family members and close associates."

Anyway, here's the comment.

Here's a copy of an email I just sent to the Executive Editor of the Press Democrat, Petaluma's newspaper. I invite others to use it (or write a better one, which shouldn't be hard) and send it to other newspaper editors, eg Fayetteville or other RSSB locales, or even the New York Times.

Dear (Executive Editor)

As you may know, Science of the Soul is one of Petaluma's largest religious centers. At the end of this month it will host their guru, Baba Gurinder Singh, who is one of the most popular religious leaders in India. Many thousands of people will attend.
https://petalumaprogram.org/

This organization prides itself on its high ideals, and attracts many members based on its apparent integrity. But many people don't know that the guru and his family are embroiled in a huge financial scandal.

Here's the gist: Roughly 500 million dollars was siphoned from corporations that were run by the guru's family members, and then distributed to other members of the guru's family, and to the guru himself. A court has ruled that the money must be paid back to the corporations, but so far no restitution has been made. The guru has also borrowed large sums of money from individuals for his personal use (and opulent lifestyle) and likewise has so far refused to pay it back.

I bring this matter to your attention in hopes that the Press Democrat can do a story about it. So far, no American newspaper has published anything on this matter.

Here are a few websites that explain the scandal in more detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAjtRZ1S5E

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/radha_soami_satsang_beas/

https://www.businesstoday.in/buzztop/buzztop-corporate/delhi-hc-orders-recovery-from-rssb-chief-gurinder-dhillon-wife-and-sons-to-pay-singh-brothers-due-to-daiichi/story/354797.html

https://www.firstpost.com/business/malvinder-singh-alleges-spiritual-leader-gurinder-singh-dhillon-used-money-from-ranbaxy-stake-sale-to-buy-properties-6207121.html

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/malvinder-for-spiritual-seat-shivinder-allowed-dhillon-to-siphon-off-8646-crore/article26297796.ece

If you have any questions please let me know,

Regards,

Your Name

Gurinder Singh Dhillon

Comments

[Just The Facts]

The animated video is inaccurate in that it gives the impression that GSD was the perpetrator and the Singh brothers were the victims of a fraudulent siphoning of funds and that this was the cause of the downfall of the Singh brothers.

The truth is:
1. The siphoning of money was a joint operation with the Singh brothers playing a key role. They sent the money and backdated the repayment date to make it appear to be returned in the same financial quarter. It was the Singh brothers who went to court and were found guilty.

2. The sale of Ranbaxy, fraudulently concealing the facts etc, was a matter instigated by the Singh brothers. Of course there was the risk that the buyer would take legal action and the Singh brothers did not anticipate this. Instead they used that money and borrowed further money, pledging shares in relegate to the bank. They did not think their assets would be frozen. If they had paid the $500,000 back, their assets would NOT have been frozen. They would not have lost control of ranbaxy. This was the real reason for their downfall and it was their own doing.

Obviously they did not siphon money for zero financial gain. This was a carefully orchestrated operation designed to benefit both parties at the expense of religare.
As long as they themselves were the major shareholders, they were only defrauding their own company. The benefit to them would be the tax saving.

When they lost the shares, it was no longer their company, and the matter came to light.

If that had not happened, none of this would have come to light.

[JustTheFacts]

The letter to the press is also inaccurate as it focusses on one aspect of the matter and conceals the part played by the Singh brothers.

Borrowing money and being unable to repay it in a timely manner is not a criminal offence.

The joint operation of siphoning off money is however a criminal offence. The motivation appears to be the saving in tax by religare, otherwise the Singh brothers would not have agreed to do it. Clearly they must have a private deal with the offshore companies stating their benefit and payback terms, but for obvious reasons, that would have been a secret deal.

While the guru played his part, the letter gives the impression that he alone is the ”bad guy” in all of this, when in fact this was a joint operation of the Singh brothers and the Dhillon family.

Anyone sending that letter to the press would be guilty of misrepresenting the facts.

[anami]

Forgive me, but I don't see the need for activism, when most Americans snort at the words "Indian guru" to begin with. Forty years ago my parents wept actual tears and pleaded with me not to give up meat. My wife, a Buddhist herself, thinks I'm an idiot. Last year a colleague asked about my spirituality. I started with "Well, we're trapped in a cycle of birth and death, but the human form contains the entirety of Creation." Within 30 seconds she balked at my "negativity" and pivoted to her New Age smiley face fantasy, forgetting that she asked me and not the other way around. Most brains, I've found, are completely immune to Sant Mat, so why get all worked up trying to protect everyone? Besides, what could the U.S. press uncover that the India press couldn't?

[Meena]

Amar beta don’t be disappointed. Our Hazur and Babaji do not disappoint. I am a nobody in this world but in his eyes I am a very special deciple. I see this when he comes to me. Always be steadfast on the path and keep to the tenets and you will never be disappointed.
We have a lovely atmosphere especially when Babaji comes and fills our hearts and souls with so much love for the lord. I thank him everyday for giving me this life and keeping me in the Seva atmosphere(if I did not have that I think I would gossip with neighbors in the community where my kids live and
spend my time uselessly).

[Mike England]

Wow. I guess we don’t need The Rock and Jason Statham now.
😥

[Michael Charles]

I have been wondering on “the meaning of life” and would like to share my thoughts.

The Truth
There is no such thing as the truth.
We spend our lives choosing what to believe or not, usually it’s what’s makes us happy that gets the nod.
However we live out our finite lives here, we are all going to die. In one hundred years time, it will be all new people on the planet.
Where is there any TRUTH in that.

Atheism and Science are brick walls to better living. They may mildly amuse for a short time only as they lack vital energy.

In short, we create our own Fiction and try to follow our self made rules.

For now:
My name is Michael I’m an addict.
My higher power is God.
God is an infinite ocean of love.
I am one drop of that ocean.
God loves me.
On death I will soar into God for eternal peace and bliss.

This will make me happy however true or fictional.

[Ashok]

Don't miss guide, it's not babaji photo.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Just the Facts.. A few you are missing....
1. The High Court of Delhi on June 10th found that Gurinder, his sons and wife, and Gurinder's associates, all RSSB initiates vowed to loyalty to Gurinder, were responsible for taking nearly a billion dollars in unpaid loans owed to the Singh brothers, and were delinguent in payment.

2. The high court of Delhi, on June 10th found Gurinder, his wife and sons, and other RSSB associates, legally liable for those delinquent loans, and ordered them by name to pay the court every penny owed, including interest, directly.

3. The High Court of Delhi moved responsibility for repayment of those monies owed to Daiichi away from the Singh brothers, who are now no longer responsible for the monies taken by Gurinder, his family, and RSSB associates. Now that liability has been placed on Gurinder, his sons, wife and RSSB associate's shoulders.

4. The Securities and Exchange Board of India found the Singh brothers AND their related business interests, all run by RSSB associates of Gurinder, had engaged, together, in fraud.

5. The new board of Religare conducted their own audits and found that not only the Singh brothers, but the recipients of the loans knew about and participated in the fraudulent loans. They submitted a formal request for legal action to the Delhi police.

6.Separate investigations by Bloomberg and Livemint confirmed that Gurinder, his wife and sons, and his RSSB associates, had taken hundreds of millions of dollars in these fraudulent loans.

7. These investigations, including additional investigations by the SEBI and the Serious Crimes division, led to the High Court of Delhi moving responsibility for these loans to their recipients, Gurinder, his wife and sons, and RSSB associates.

8. Gurinder assigned to Shivinder, who was found guilty of fraud by the SEBI, the duty to teach spirituality at the Dera.

Just the facts... All the facts.

[Spence Tepper]

Oops, one more fact

The High Court of Delhi also ordered Gurinder, his wife and sons and RSSB associates not to sell any of their assets until payment was made in full to the High Court.

[anami]

Anyone else notice the similarity of Religare to 'religion,' and the corporate logo is a lucky four-leaf clover? The irony!

[j]

I appreciate the comments about improving the letter to the news editor. I'll only say that my main idea of the composition of the letter is that it gets the editor's attention, and sparks their interest so that they assign a reporter to do some investigative journalism on the scandal, finding a story worthy to publish it in their paper.

Putting myself in these editor's shoes, the problem with this scandal as a news item is one that Dungeness and I have pointed out: no court has made a legal conclusion that Gurinder orchestrated the money siphoning. Yes, there's a lot that's strongly circumstantial, and there are active lawsuits against Gurinder. But so far there's just one party involved in this scandal (Malvinder) who is saying that Gurinder was to blame for it -- and even that isn't clear.

Still, a newspaper or magazine might be willing to publish a story on what IS known. Basically,
1) that 500 million dollars or so somehow ended up in the Dhillon family coffers courtesy of initiates of the guru.
2) That in defiance of a court order, this money hasn't been paid back to the corporation from whence it came.
3) That one of the principal parties (Malvider) has a lawsuit against the guru.
4) That the filmmaker Talwar is also suing the guru for borrowing a cool mil and not paying it back.
5) That the guru has a policy of silence on these matters, while he sits on a moralistic throne of Godman in a "philosophical" organization (not a religion!) that boasts of the highest ideals of honest living.

A pitch to editors of what's actually known about RSSB might just get published.

[Brian Hines]

Ashok, the photo is official. It's on the RSSB web site. The photo I shared is a zoomed-in screenshot of part of the official photo. So it isn't misleading. It's the truth.

[Amar]

It's very telling that Ashok and others think this is not Baba Ji's photo, enlarged. I had seen the photo as the original, from a distance, which is really a photo taken at the same doorway where the exact same photo of Sawan Singh, Jagat Singh, Charan Singh, and now Gurinder Singh have the same photograph.

The ones of the previous masters were in black and white and GSD issued this photo in both colour and black and white as well.

A smile goes a long way! Charan Singh had a beautiful smile.

[Rajender]

I don't know about fact but I know that mostly sewadars living in dera and beas are dishonest and involve in many types of criminal activities and many other people know about it if cbi investigate about it I will definitely participate in this case

[Dungeness]

8. Gurinder assigned to Shivinder, who was found guilty of fraud by the SEBI, the duty to teach spirituality at the Dera

Dear Spence.

Does that reflect negatively on GSD... or Shivi?

Didn't Great Master entrust the same duty to Kirpal Singh who went
on to challenge Maharaji's appointment to the Gaddi and then later
was forced to recant his action?

Certainly, a different magnitude of offense but illustrative of how
destiny may play out in unexpected or even stunning ways.

[Spence Tepper]

One minor point. The High Court ordered Gurinder et al to pay the High Court directly, and by doing this the High Court took responsibility for those hundreds of millions off Malvinder and Shivinder's shoulders and placed that responsibility directly onto the shoulders of Gurinder et al.

"Besides the Dhillon family, the Delhi HC is issuing 'garnishee orders' against several Dhillon and RSSB associates' companies, including Prius Real Estate, Addon Realty, Payne Realtors SGGD Projects, Luminous Holding. A garnishee order is an order against a third party to recover money to settle a debt or dues.

"Garnishee order prevents these entities from alienating any assets.

" The dues will now be paid to Delhi HC instead of Singh brothers and their entities to whom it is owed.

"BusinessToday.In has reported the flow of money from Singh brothers to entities owned and controlled by Gurinder Singh Dhillon - the head of the Radha Soami Satsang Beas - his family and assocites of RSSB. RoC filings and terms sheets say between 2011 and 2014, Rs 1107.5 crore from the Rs 9,576 crore sale proceeds of Ranbaxy to Daiichi Sankyo was paid through RHC group firms RHC Holding Private Limited, Oscar Investment Limited, RHC Finance Private Limited and Fortis Healthcare Holdings Private Limited into two group entities ANR Securities Private Limited and Ranchem Private Limited."

https://m.businesstoday.in/story/delhi-hc-orders-recovery-from-rssb-chief-gurinder-dhillon-wife-and-sons-to-pay-singh-brothers-due-to-daiichi/1/354797.html

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
Good questions.

RE Gurinder giving to Shivinder, found guilty of fraud by the SEBI, the duty to teach others about spirituality, you asked

"Does that reflect negatively on GSD... or Shivi?

" Didn't Great Master entrust the same duty to Kirpal Singh who went on to challenge Maharaji's appointment to the Gaddi and then later was forced to recant his action?

"Certainly, a different magnitude of offense but illustrative of how
destiny may play out in unexpected or even stunning ways."

Why place someone who committed fraud and tainted medications all for money, to a position of spiritual leadership?

It doesn't reflect well.

Anyone who lives honestly, however humbly, would be a better teacher. And there are so many of those in every Sangat. They sit at the back in silent happiness with their clean and simple lives.

Feeding Shivinder's pride as a 'holy man' is going in the wrong direction.

Nor does it show compassion to leave all those large centers to sit empty so much of the year in so many countries around the world, when so many refugees need sanctuary in every place.

A single decision on Gurinder's part could change that, and create a worthy Seva that would give succor to tens of thousands.

But we could argue over what the point is. Land acquisition, or true Service?

He could turn everything around overnight.

Or he could sell those centers donated to him to pay his delinquent bills...

Or leave them empty, like the unused clothes filling a hoarder's closets to overflowing.

You see the clothes stacked neat and unused everywhere on every bed, counter and square inch of floor space so that there is no place to walk.

Maria Kondo, Baba Ji needs your help!

[Di]

Spence, you are absolutely correct in saying that BBji can change everything overnight, if he so chose. Why doesn't he? Is he holding back for the welfare of Jivas? Or is he over come with greed and attachment to the family? Only he knows.
In my opinion spirituality is only about being connected to the universal energy or essence. Without this connection, every religion is only a set of dogmatic beliefs, rules, policies, etc.
If he is sincere in his role as a spiritual leader of millions, I hope he would come forward directly, or thru his representation, and clear the fog of confusion as they say.
Di

[Di]

Only Empty shells remain under the guise of spirituality

[Dungeness]

Why place someone who committed fraud and tainted medications all for money, to a position of spiritual leadership? It doesn't reflect well.

When exactly did GSD entrust Shivi to q position of leadership? Arguably the
nephews weren't linked to tainted med's, financial fraud, or other festering
scandals until very recently were they? Or, in the earlier tainted med crisis,
is there perhaps some supposition that the whole Ranbaxy power structure
musta taken part in the criminal scheme?

Nor does it show compassion to leave all those large centers to sit empty so much of the year in so many countries around the world, when so many refugees need sanctuary in every place.

A single decision on Gurinder's part could change that, and create a worthy Seva that would give succor to tens of thousands.

RSSB isn't a social welfare org. There are agencies set up specifically
for that purpose. That doesn't preclude individual RSSB members
from donating their time and resources to help others. It's a laudable
effort.

There have certainly been times when RSSB has been involved in
public help. Doesn't Dera feed many indigent members as it is?
Didn't Dera open its doors to all refugees during Partition and in the
more recent Indo-Pakistan wars too? Also, the Eye Camps during
Maharaji's time were free to all I believe.

[Amit wadhwa]

Dear editor I’ve been following this path for the last forty years or you can say since my birth. I’ve read your all articles related to babaji and animation made by you . It couldn’t even shake iota of my faith . Whatever it is the whole story the foundation of faith is so strong and practical that by showing one side of the coin you can’t just move the faith of millions . Since ages there’s been war against the holy spirits whether he was a Christ, a Mohammed , Guru Nanak or saint Kabir , meera, shams Tabrez etc , this time it’s no different . I’m not among those who blindly follows anyone, this faith is made on brick by brick of practical life experiences . I’d request my brothers and sisters who are on this path to have a closer look inside before misjudging anything like this. Radha Soami ji!

[Amit wadhwa]

If a father bows his head doesn’t mean he’s guilty might be his children have done something shameful for him to do so!

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Di
You asked
"Or is he over come with greed and attachment to the family? Only he knows."

Practically speaking, as a teacher, he would act to get a result from the student.

Do we act? Do we offer to help?
Or do we simply judge, negative or positive, with the net result of no real action?

I believe it is the former.
He may not be a real teacher.
But a real student would try to take the best they can from this, and I believe it is to acknowledge the situation that is dragging on, and offer to help out.

One million of us donating $1,000 would wipe out the debt and we could all get on with our lives.

[Spence Tepper]

One more point, Di,
Whether he is a real teacher or a fake hardly matters where there is love. We came to know him, we feel in love, and his status has little to do with it. We didn't fall in love with a job, a manager.

He is irreverent, cocky, sometimes mean, sometimes compassionate, and he might have a greedy streak?

What does it matter?

RSSB is in the middle of a major scandel. Right now all the courts want is repayment. Let's offer to help make that happen, and make this go away.

When certain members of a family misbehave, the others rally round and help make up for the damage. They don't make matters worse by defending the harm. They humbly go in and fix what the can...And they make sure Uncle G can't find the Checkbook again.

It's like a marriage. We all took vows. But we're all human. And even though some members may not live up to those vows all the time, as family, we should try to help the family get back to functioning.

[Vikas]

Kindly news contents must be authantic.

[Di]

Yes, but the ideal of universal truth about humanity, jivas, brotherhood and equality ofof all living beings brought us together as a family or marriage. Shouldn't the focus of damage control be towards greater good of all humanity and our planet? Has is not been human greed that has destroyed our planet. humanity, and our families and social interactions in the first place?
Family of an addict covers his mistakes for damage control. Are they helping or enabling? At the least an addict has to take ownership over his habit in front of his/her "12 steps" family that has taken vows together to help each other.
What we have here with RSSB family is that people are sensing greed/fraud amongst us. They are making statements. Our denial only makes things worse for us as a family. Our reputation and credibility are deteriorating further daily. Disciples who try to defend blindly only make things worse. Disciples who ask questions within the family are ridiculed and told santmat is a dictatorship under BBji. And are not reinvited for seva. Besides BBji or his representation is best to speak on this matter to all disciples and our society as a whole?

[um]

Question:
What is going on has that only and solely to do with the financial affairs of private persons or is the organisation, the institute financially involved in any way?
Was there any reference made by the court?

At home we don't act as in the office or the "church"
In the office we don't act as at home or the church
and in the church we don't act as we do at home or in office.

[Di]

Regardless, damage control means different things to different people. Patient may be more bothered by symptoms of cancer, but surgeon rather get to the root of the cancer.

[anami]

I don't know, Spence. Your sentiment is noble, but I think Baba Ji would be in violation to receive money from us to pay off personal debt. Great Master wrote:

"The Master is not allowed to accept anything for His personal use or for His family. He lives upon His pension or private earnings." (Huzur Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji, Spritual Gems, letter 197)

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Di. I agree completely.
Help is only help where the persons involved come forward and take responsibility, and of course a good leader is the first to do so.

But if the leader isn't the first, at least we can encourage them to do so, and then the help is real help and not, as you correctly state, enabling an addiction.

But if this really is an addiction among some at the highest levels, then we cannot expect the addict to volunteer their role unless an intervention which leaves them no other option.

That may be happening now.

[Meditator]

Mr Spencer,
I am convinced by your approach and take over Baba jees matter and likely consequences for Him in this world for He will not defend His case but. Surrender eventually. if His immediate family members may have done corrupt or manipulative actions in a financial web whereby He was made to become a Party ( whether by His own Will or circumstances or divine will or just worst business decisions - He or His family members know all).

Would appreciate writing to Him as collective effort for Financial help to our spiritual father. He is in trouble and needs us all than a few big businessmen and politicians who can foot His bill easily against The Returns that they would expect from Baba jee in this world or that inside.

Regards

[E]

Spence wrote : "When certain members of a family misbehave, the others rally round and help make up for the damage. They don't make matters worse by defending the harm. They humbly go in and fix what the can...And they make sure Uncle G can't find the Checkbook again"

Yeah...in the mind of an 8 year old this is perhaps how it would appear. Now leave pseudo-self- righteousness, fake piety, 'humble' heroic calls to arms, and a contrived economic moral worldview based on blind Trust on the Godollar, go out (or within), ride your bicycle (do your practice) and let the only grown UP deal with the 'problem', if there is a real problem in the first place (beyond racing minds)...

[Jen]

"But if this really is an addiction among some at the highest levels, then we cannot expect the addict to volunteer their role unless an intervention which leaves them no other option."

What kind of intervention I wonder? "One million of us donating $1,000 would wipe out the debt and we could all get on with our lives." So much nonsense.

The accuser says: "He is irreverent, cocky, sometimes mean, sometimes compassionate, and he might have a greedy streak?"

This accuser is himself a narcissist who feels he is faultless and yet can so easily project so many faults onto another. Always criticising, judging and then pretending to be kind and helpful but underneath the facade I wonder if this is someone who is intent on revenge, wanting to bring the guru down... don't be fooled...

[MG]

RSji
It's really disturbing. If Court ordered please arrange to pay back . Money does not matter but trust shakes if reactions are not proper from the involved .

[Spence Tepper]

Hi E and Jen
Your point of making personal characterizations of me is entirely vacant of the facts which prompt me. They are defensive and emotional comments that are not worthy of brothers and sisters or anyone who values the position of brother or sister.

It is those facts upon which my response depends and with neither of you have adequately addressed, or accepted, and offered any helpful approach.

And should those facts change in any way, naturally so would my response.

I encourage you to adopt objective facts, though they may cause you to change your position, or to abandon or adopt a position.

But that would be a view of the matter, not a negative personal characteristizarion of someone who is simply trying to deal with facts you don't like and are unwilling to deal with.

E, in your own parlance, that would be the adult thing to do.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Amani
You wrote
""The Master is not allowed to accept anything for His personal use or for His family. He lives upon His pension or private earnings." (Huzur Maharaj Sawan Singh Ji, Spritual Gems, letter 197)"

Yes that is the idea, and no, that's not what has taken place.

So what?

Let's just get him out of hock and we can discuss the morality later. It would be nice of he acknowledged he's in some hot water, but as you can see from the nasty personal comments here, people can't deal with a very human Guru with compassion. They need him to be bigger than life and that's actually preventing anyone from helping.

Let's just do a charitable, kick - starter thing!

I'll look into it.

[Jen]

Spence, some people are not aware of their own hypocrisy. They feel free to judge another when that person is not even available to respond. Why not write a letter or visit the Dera and criticise Gurinder to his face instead of relying on hearsay and gossip? Even the newspaper articles aren't factually reliable. Do yourself a favour and talk to the person you are judging instead of backstabbing.

[E]

S,
We are not adults

[E]

You've written and written, written and written, in circles with Hines and a few others.

I will stick to my initial statement and this is my final intervention on this matter

[Dungeness]

Let's just get him out of hock and we can discuss the morality later. It would be nice of he acknowledged he's in some hot water, but as you can see from the nasty personal comments here, people can't deal with a very human Guru with compassion. They need him to be bigger than life and that's actually preventing anyone from helping.

Spence, I'm with you. This seems like a heartfelt gesture but the appropriate action
it seems to me (in my second childhood I'd say) would be to address any shortfall
after the Dhillons' frozen assets were "thawed" and applied to outstanding debts.
The details and potential legal complexity of this situation looks staggering now and
might worsen.

Is civil liability limited to the Dhillons for instance? What if Godhwani or others TBD
are found later to have some civil (and/or criminal liability) as well? Will that mitigate
the total debt owed ? Will there be an adjusted settlement for other reasons? Will
some plan for deferral of debt be in place until assets are liquified? Is there any idea
of what liquidation will bring? This is walking in quicksand until more is known.

I'm getting a headache now... GSD is much better equipped to deal with these
"adult" issues anyway.

[anami]

Spence (and Dungeness),

I can only repeat Great Master's words, "The Master is not allowed to accept anything for His personal use or for His family."

Kickstarter money to get BabaJi "out of hock" sounds a lot like something for personal use. He'd be wrong to accept it, and we'd be wrong to offer it.

Can you explain how it could not be considered for personal use?

[Amar]

Just a sanity check here, but I can't get my head wrapped around these discussions of the RSSB guru. We're talking about siphoning of $100's Millions dollars. Talking about borrowing over $1 Million dollars for his cancer treatment, that wasn't and still isn't paid back. Accusations of threats, his entire family and close friends being named in allegations of fraudulent loans.

Now, we've come down to discussions of how we'll help him pay his debts back? Really? When I was almost bankrupt, and out of a job, GSD or RSSB didn't offer to pay off my debts. We all make mistakes, get caught up in bullshit, and we crawl our own way out of it. I'm not responsible for his monetary debt or anyone else's. Think about it for a minute: we're talking about bailing out a leader of a spiritual organization. One that says greed is bad, and be honest in your dealings. And I'm supposed to bail him out when he does the exact opposite? Dream on.

When the dust is settled, do you think there will be announcements in the satsang that we're collecting money for the guru's debts, please see the sevadar in the corner of the hall. He'll even give you a tax receipt to write it off... Absurd.

Spencer, your thoughts are noble, but when there is an obvious systemic degradation of the beliefs in the guru, his family, and close associates contrary to the dogma being presented, then one is at a crossroads. You either continue on, or you make a "YOU" turn. Keep the good things you've learned and made a part of your life, and discard the parts that just don't make sense or are contrary to it.

I still hold hope that there is a minute possibility that all this is not as it seems, but my intuition tells me otherwise.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jen
You wrote
"Spence, some people are not aware of their own hypocrisy. They feel free to judge another when that person is not even available to respond."

Yes? And would some people include you and I, Gurinder and every human being on this planet who ever lived?

Baba Ji is absolutely free to respond to the court order. That order has already been made. And he has responded with silence.

The high court has shown that they respond favorably to a fact - based petition. Gurinder should make one, or pay his bills. And each of us who took vows should be willing to help out.

It's that simple.

You seem to think being a "hypocrite,... narcissisist...... Judging.... Pretending to be helpful...." is some special condition that only applies to others.

Ah, past lives, what a depressing show that is!

I'm guilty of far worse than you have written. "Oh, but that was some other life, not this one!" talk about denial.

What can it hardly matter? We are all the same, and we should help each other. Whatever you did, I did. Whatever Baba Ji did, I did too.

But living in denial doesn't help.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
I thought about you points last night, that we don't actually knowthe specific amount of the court order that went to Baba Ji.

But the scandal is really an RSSB scandel, so screw it, let's Kickstart donations for the total amount.

Let's do what we can to undo the damage.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Amer
You wrote
"You either continue on, or you make a "YOU" turn. Keep the good things you've learned and made a part of your life, and discard the parts that just don't make sense or are contrary to it."

If you can do that, that's great.
I've never been good at that. My failing is the basis of my unending loyalty. When I go into a hospital that has lots of patient errors, delays, mistakes, I can't leave until the problem is cleaned up. And who am I leaning on to do the impossible transformational work? Maharaji and Baba Ji!

When I'm done, the same people who were making the mistakes have to be the ones to run it right. You can't fire or jail half the staff. You must find a way to transform them, to acknowledge the problems, the behaviors, but at the same time build on the foundation of their existing strengths.

Naturally, while thankful, they're happy to see me go when the job is done. There is always pain along the way. But it's nothing compared to a medical error. Still, hospitals are good at finding complex causes that don't actually lay responsibility on anyone's shoulders. Ways to actually insulate themselves, defuse responsibility into so many particles of dust, perpetuating their daily addictions.

And that's OK until it comes time for everyone to change their daily behavior. My job is creating transparency, coaching, facilitation, the crucial conversations and the "pilot" deadline, where we all start doing the right thing, recorded, measured, so that nothing can be hidden anymore, and there is no escape from following protocol, from collaboration.

It's amazing what you can accomplish when no one cares about the credit.... Or the blame.. But hiding information must go.

But that only happens where there is transparency.

To overcome addiction, the facts have to be there.

People will deny them when they have the luxury of doing so. Or react with finger pointing and name calling. As you can read on this blog.

But at some point, if the forces of accountability do their job, that luxury will disappear.

I fear the laughter that Baba Ji and the Sangat enjoyed at Haynes Park may be the music played by the band on the sinking deck of the Titanic.

But regardless, I'm looking into a Kickstarter campaign to pay the Dellhi High Court whatever good Satsangis wish to donate to cover the sins of their brothers and sisters.

[Di]

Thank you Spence.
Root Cause Analyses (RCAs) are common in all industries, particularly health care and aerospace engineering. For them to be productive and constructive all involved parties have to be at the table to present their decision making and judgement transparently. If one decision maker withholds key information the entire process becomes futile.
You wish to help BBji by paying his debt. And I am ok with helping. However, if the RCA is flawed, how do we avoid repeating the the same errors. If not BBji, someone with decision making capacity within the organization needs to run a transparent RCA and present their findings to the sangat. Then I agree that we can forgive and forget, and move forward together as a family based on genuine precepts of santmat.
That would be beneficial to all.
No point in throwing mud at others who are confused, frustrated, and disappointed. Who are trying to make sense of what has been happening within their own paradigms of understanding.
Di

[Amar]

Lol, Di. Are we questioning whether we trust Baba Ji with the money?

I'm sure Vijay would love to not only comment on this but would be happy to donate as well.

Vijay! What do you say? Let's jump on this!

[Jen]

Spence, you say: "When I go into a hospital that has lots of patient errors, delays, mistakes, I can't leave until the problem is cleaned up."

I think I understand you now, a perfectionist, wanting to make everything right and proper, including Baba Ji and his actions. You say: "And who am I leaning on to do the impossible transformational work? Maharaji and Baba Ji!"

Dear Spence, you cannot fix the world! It cannot be transformed. It will always be imperfect. The gurus are enmeshed in their own karma, just doing the best they can to keep their followers happy but honestly I don't think they deserve all the worship they get. They are imperfect just like us. Stop worrying about their money problems.

I've moved on over the years and am so much more happy now that I'm slowly, gradually trying to accept life as it is and am just doing the best I can and letting go of all those beliefs I had about being saved by some guru. Have faith in yourself, no need to follow another, and above all, be kind to yourself, you deserve it!!

[Dungeness]

I fear the laughter that Baba Ji and the Sangat enjoyed at Haynes Park may be the music played by the band on the sinking deck of the Titanic.

Laughter is the appropriate response to all overwrought drama, they say.

BTW, athough no one's totally sure, "Nearer My God to Thee" is frequently
mentioned as the hymn heard when the TItanic went down. Appropriate.
eh?

[Vijay]

Amar you do what pleases you. The only thing BBJ needs from me is my practice. He has been crystal clear about this.

[anami]

Why am I still having trouble with the idea of curing the money problems of multimillionaires with even more money? Why, why, why? Oh, I know. There's a word for it. Hold on, I'm thinking. Oh, yeah! The word is enabling. I don't care how fun and lovable at Christmastime, if Uncle G and family had a drinking problem, the last thing I'd do is restock their bar.

[Amar]

Vijay, just giving you a hard time.

I am a bit disappointed that you wouldn't donate money to the "get GSD out of debt campaign,"
I get it, by you donating the money would mean admitting he's actually in a money problem.

And by the way, Baba Ji doesn't need anything from you. You need to do the meditation for yourself. Don't give your inner power away to anyone. Everything is inside. People without a guru have had the same experiences, if not more, than ones who align with a guru. I know that from my own personal experience.

I've found it's not really about the sounds or the lights inside, it's about the feeling of centering yourself and becoming silent. The rejuvenation and awareness that comes from just sitting in the silence is the real payoff.

Peace to you brother.

[Amar]

j, did you get any response from the editors or other newspapers from your letter?

[Vijay]

Sorry to disappoint you Amar. Unlike you I don’t think this is a joking matter. May funny things in the world, your comments aren’t one of them.
He needs me to do my practice the same way a teacher needs his student to study. Ultimately the student benefits but the teacher/guru is successful only when the student is diligent.
Glad to see you are working on the path within. Your right many people experience many things . No patent on this by rssb.
Peace to you too. 🙏

[Amar]

Vijay, appreciate your comments. Guru needs to follow his own teachings, then set the example for his disciples, not the other way around. The more I'm reading of other ideas and other religions over the years, I've come to realize that all this talk of religion and spirituality is bullshit.

No one knows anything. There are one off individuals who have epiphanies and write their experiences down. We call them saints, gurus, faqirs, learned ones. They think we can be converted and turn into one of them. Wrong. They can help us lead a more insightful life, leaving a smaller footprint in the world. But beyond that, I don't think there's anything there. I think they all figured out that the awareness of the self is all there is, what we call the One, for lack of a better word. There is nothing else. I strongly believe that the brain is playing a major role in the inner things we "see and hear", melded into our individual life experiences and mental state.

I keep coming back to what Faqir Chand would say: a bubble of consciousness.
Now, what is consciousness? That's a different thing altogether. You can google the definition all you want, but what is it really? The bubble just pops...

Just my 2 cents. I really don't care if anyone believes me or not. My purpose behind putting it on this blog helps me digest the knowledge I've acquired and trying to put some sense into the hyperbole and nonsense we hear from any faith, religious group or church.

When my grandparents found this path, they were lifted out of a small village mentality and introduced to a thoughtful and clean living ideal in RSSB. They benefited from it in their own way. So people should do what feels right for them. But use your sense of discrimination and have the balls to make the difficult discussions and investigations into your own faith. Worst case, you find out something you really didn't want to. Best case, you've strengthened your faith in your belief system. Either way, you're not in denial.

Cheers!