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July 17, 2019

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I clearly hear your message Amar. I sense your frustration and disappointment with the way santmat/rssb has evolved under current guru and management. And I appreciate your and Spence's kindness in seeking the truth.
It would be so much easier if Dera would simply say something-even if nothing but acknowledging how frustrating it must be for the sangat not knowing the whole truth (if there is more to it.)
It is hard to believe that reputable journals/journalists would risk their reputation and print something without adequately researching their leads.
For children parents are God. It is very painful for then to accept that parents can be wrong until they begin to develop their own identities and develop outside relationships as teens and young adults. Until then they accept everything from a parent as the ultimate truth. However, to become successful adults, they must grow up and begin to accept life as it is.
Unfortunately, some of us, replace our parents with an all knowing guru or savior so we don't have to face the realities of life (in particular the harsher ones, like pain, suffering, death etc.)
These individuals live in their bubbles just as some healthy and capable 40 yr old still rely on their parents to take care of their needs. At times there is mutual benefit. Nothing wrong with symbiosis.

However, it's wrong for them to defend something based only on their faith or need without evidence. Naturally they can agree to disagree on this blog.

So, why the defense of a guru? On several occasions I have heard enthusiastic disciples/sevadars that Babaji has told them (I'm paraphrasing) santmat/rssb is a dictatorship. I can see the parallel between a saint and a dictator. The difference though is that a saint commands obedience with his love, kindness, compassion, welfare, and humility. And disciples obey them out of love and awe. Whereas, dictator mandates it, asks for it, and threatens with repercussions. And people obey dictators out of fear or greed for wealth, power, influence and so on.

If this is a fact, it explains everything that Amar, Spence and others have said here.
Germans who beleived in Hitler did exactly what they were told to without a question. Germans who didn't, disobeyed him accepted the fact that it was wrong thing to do for a good human being at the risk of being prosecuted.
If RSSB has become a dictatorship, please keep it separate from true spirituality.


Things are what they are,
seldom what they look like
let alone how they are presented.

The facts that are talked about here are just that but than it depends how one deals with it.

For some it is related to spirituality etc and reason to act in the different ways as can be found here.

But it needs not to be seen in relation to a teaching and the teacher thereof.

There are some who turn their back on Christianity when they hear about a clergymen that is found guilty of sexual misconduct or can not live with the dogmas of the institution with regard to sexuality, start and end of life etc. Others defend the church and its clergy in the way as described here again and again.

But then … there thousands and thousands who go regularly to church to pray for the welfare of themselves. These people don´t need to be informed, they too know the facts, but these facts have no meaning in their spiritual life.

So facts can not only be presented in different ways according interests and viewpoints but also dealt with.

There comes a point when you simply have to drop all the false beliefs and face the truth.

Gurinder does not meet the criteria of a “Param Sant Satguru”

According to Sant mat
The Satguru does not need your money because he has the wealth of Naam.

He must pass the test of being an exemplary human being according to dr Johnson.

It is not a conferred title like a pope.

It is earned

Gurinder fails to meet the criteria

He is hugely attached to money
He has no compassion
He has no charity
He has no inner progress

If he had a connection with his guru on the inner planes
Surely his guru would have guided him

Does he ever meditate?


Clear truth, his uncle ,when you would adres him with the statements you make here about his nephew, would probably react with:

"Brother/Sister what is your concept of
attachement
compassion
charity
and
"have you seen him inside"

Having money, being rich has nothing to do with attachment. If that was the case nobody with more money than a few dollars a day for the simple necessities of life could not follow a spiritual walk of life.

As far as I do remember what was written in spiritual literature about set criteria for recognizing any spiritual teacher, it is impossible to know who is a teacher or not.
It was, is and will always remain a matter of "belief".
People have always tried to find and claim the existence of observable criteria; history books are full of stories to prove that but those who are accepted as great mystics again and again stated that godmen can come in any garb, as kings and pauper and that from their behaviour nothing can be understood of their spiritual status.

THAT is the truth and with this truth we all have to deal. For some that is easier than for others.
Believe comes in many shapes; William James even wrote an academic dissertation on it "The will to believe".

After the war some would not buy bread from a baker that had done business with the occupiers, others, who knew the same, bought his bread.

If I am not mentally or otherwise attracted to a teacher, as i did f.e. with Rajneesh, Sai Baba and many others, I just didn't go there; there was never a need to find an justification for my emotional and intellectual stantpoints in these persons. In the same time there were many friens who "knwew" all about these persons and judged them accordingly.

Following an person, trusting, loving etc as in marriage or whatever other relation is totally a matter of personal responsibility … it is YOUR love, attention, care, trust, devotion ...YOU are FREE to GIVE IT to whatever and whoever you like ...and it is up to YOU whether you attach CONDITIONS for the other to give what is yours.

All these emotions and feelings have nothing to do with DESERVING, EARNING etc.

Love and all derivates thereof as kindness, duty, attention etc etc are just gifts and anybody is free to give what is his or hers to whomever they want without justification.

Any parent is free to love their misbehaving children.
and you are free to set the conditions and act accordingly.

Facts remain what they are, FACTS.
We are free to deal with facts as we like.
Facts don't COMMAND us nor can we use them.
In the public domain the LAW will deal with these facts
In the private domain we do whatever suits us with the same facts.

Whatever relation you have or had with any spiritual movement started with YOUR mental make up, YOUR thoughts, desires, hopes etc etc …. if there is anything to be found in this life regarding spirituality, it is to be found there, with YOU, inside YOU. Finding answers and making others outside yourself responsible for the thoughts you have and the actions you take will only take you further away from whatever goal you have in mind or heart.

YOUR own life will teach you the TRUTH.

Hi UM, nice write up. Only thing I can point out it is regarding your statement "Facts don't COMMAND us nor can we use them."

We can use facts. We use them everyday and the court of law uses only facts in making their rulings and juries to make their findings: guilty or not guilty.

We have to use documented facts when presented with them. If we base our actions on anything else, we leave ourselves open to being taken advantage of, being mislead, and wasting our time. This applies not only to spiritual endeavors, but in our day to day lives.

As for the rest, yes, we are free to choose what, where when and how. No problem there. It's where the facts are buried/ignored and base our decisions on ignoring these facts.

Cheers!

Hi Brian, just saw this youtube that popped up yesterday. It's an animated synopsis of Gurinder Singh Dhillon's money scandal. It even has you in it. It runs about 6:40 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaAjtRZ1S5E

Great animation actually!

Follow the teachings and not the teacher. The word guru is quiet mis interpret. It just means a teacher.Like we need a teacher on a subject- to seek or Learn a new skill. Why blame just the rssb head. There are so many people involved who are business men in full capacity and could have done this without telling him. ( Frauds and misappropriations are done hidden ). He can be true if he says he didn't know. But now he has to do the damage control. If u are a parent and your child did something wrong. Will it be right to just blame you all the while. As per you yes its the parents mistake as he is the head. You are just hell bent to ruin his image only. Your articles are filled with hate for him . Let the law decide and you should write about something else now. There is nothing wrong with his teachings,they are normal and simple and taken from great saints of India and abroad. He is not preaching anything made or done by him. Focus on self and gain knowledge that makes you a better human. For him he knows his story better than you.

No one has right to blame RSSB Guru without knowing him. He is not running behind money, his only motive is to guide people in right way. If you have any doubt then go and meet him personally. Why you are not approaching others who are the holders of black money. Tata, birla, ambani and more other like them who have more than enough money. If someone is doing right thing, you have no authority to speal against him. My advice to you all is to go and meet RSSB guru to know the complete truth and stop talking rubbish.

Why church of churchless is cricising RSSB in which motive .RSSB is a spiritual centre nothing to do with any materialistic business, the teaching and practice is beyond mind and matter. I am practicing for last many years and satisfied. The grace is beyond any word to explain.
Ashok Ghosh

Which BABA doesn't accept money?We are fools to run after all these BABAS

I think whoever pendown all the words for RSSB were just a hate, jealousy, or person who sold his/her pen to some others, who actually paying this person to write this kind of articles because as I live nearby one of the satsang centre and many times I visited their satsang. I never noticed anything harm in their teachings afterall they preach through with all sentiments exists today in all religions. But now comes to Ranbaxy owners so we're they blind, deaf, speachless so they couldn't do before this all shit happened they have very bright head on their shoulders so how could they get duped by GURINDER SINGH. CAN'T digest it all.
I believe first they thought it will help them to save tax like a black money.
So they invested very sharply but as old said they themselves trapped in their own trap.

Umm h, are the newspapers and the High Court of Delhi speaking rubbish? If the teachings are good, but the teacher is embroiled in a huge financial scandal, it is relevant and worth investigating.

Don't bury your head in the sand, but look at all the information out there. Everyone is obligated to speak to any wrong doing. If you borrow money and refuse to pay it back, then you'll be going to court to pay it back. This is what happened (simplified).

Why the guru is involved in hundreds of millions of dollars in loans, that is up to you to figure out if that behooves a perfect saint to be involved in.

In the world we live in we only have the facts to go by. We all have our beliefs but they don't always mesh with the "facts of life."
As an example, the judge who wanted to be lenient towards a boy because "he came from a good family." The facts of the situation were far more convincing than this Judge's belief. And he had to resign for his error in judgement clouded this belief system.
We can all choose to believe what we wish. Most us eventually learn that our beliefs restrict us from becoming more complete beings. When we learn to open ourselves to possibilities/realities beyond our beliefs we become closer to the universal truth.

Hanry Arthur & Di. I like your open mindedness about this. Although it pains me to learn of, and to have to digest this news over the last few years, we have to be open to possibilities investigate further. Nothing would please me more to apologize for the comments I've made if I'm proven wrong.

But it doesn't seem to be unfolding that way. The more we learn, the more that leaks out about how the Singh brothers operated their businesses, and what possessed them to siphon money out of their own companies like this is beyond comprehension. Doesn't compute with my brain.

Anyways, we will have to wait and see how the rest of this unfolds so we can fill in the missing gaps.

Those who have experienced His grace will not speak because they know that behind this allegedly scandalous situation too His Grace is operating. How can we of limited minds understand the complex working of the universe ?Have we been able to answer questions like why is there evil if God is the Creator etc. If things were as they appear overtly life would be Utopia but because how they are and how they seem are two different things so we go on searching.Searching is important forming conclusions based on the overt a ridiculous mistake.Have patience good souls,you will see the correctness of it in your lifetimes.The fact that the Guru doesn't react and vilify the two brothers itself shows...... forgiveness. And the disinclination to prove himself at their expense for they too are his children and an elder takes the hit for his young ones.

I think u don't have any work to do and that is y u r giving the answers of everyone's questions here Amar!! Think and then say whatever u want to say, did u ever go to dera? Did u ever been to spirituality? Did u ever have any Guru? I understand everyone makes mistakes but think what is the reason behind it. Do u know the reason? If yes so y didn't u post ur reason in the blog. I think this is not ur cup tea because you didnt bother to mention the reason , u just want to spoil his image. Think twice before u write anything publically.

Hi kunal, maybe you should read thru the previous comments before you make assumptions. Just so you know, I was born into an RSSB family, been to the dera many times as a child and as a grown up. Initiated by GSD, have done extensive seva over the years.

No, like I said above, I don't know the reason. The one that knows the reason is remaining silent. Which proves nothing. What is the reason for not paying back the money back to the Singh brothers? Why make a court force you to pay it back. I'm not going to regurgitate what me or anyone else has commented here. It's up to you to investigate and do the research.

Whether you believe it or not, I could care less. But don't tell me I can't say what I want to say based on the facts and court rulings so far. As I mentioned above, I could be wrong and I will apologize. Will you do the same if the fault is found in the guru's business dealings?

No need to make assumptions dude, do your homework, find out what the guru is. If you do your homework and read the court findings and submissions, then good on you. At least you bothered to read it and justify your path to YOURSELF. But don't do it blindly.

Lata, you're wrong. Sometimes you have to look at the facts and the things around you to make an informed decision. You can't ignore what's in front of your eyes. Don't be so naive that you think everyone is out to get Baba Ji. He put himself in that position, as well as his wife, two sons and daughter in law, and putting high ranking RSSB sevadars in positions to make this happen.

I find it funny that he would put everyone thru this just to make a point. They all did it in the expectation that they wouldn't get caught. There are names of people so powerful in the RSSB organization that we've never heard of before. How many more are there that we haven't heard from yet?

The world is a hell region...too negative for a living rep of God to project in. Why don't you focus on the current outbreak of pyrography raping a one yr old and putting it on the dark web...and why men want to hurt destroy and kill these young girls today using sex. Your not helping anyone... Look at factory farming..killing a billion animals a day.. killing baby chicks alive with a huge metal roller..forcing animals with souls and feelings to live in dark spaces they get abused in and must sleep in their own excrement.
You are a lost soul and not helping anyone..but your unconscious ego bad-mouthing a man...while you have people torture animals so you can eat blood pain death and grow more bad karma upon yourself for your next lifetime..
.you will be one of the animals b you eat. You better learn pray compassion forgiveness and your own soul
Thanks

Baba je is a great saint of God .God was send on earth for the welfare of souls. Don't say anything against saint Satgur. Thanks.

Crystal, are you on drugs? I stated above I followed RSSB from childhood. I have never eaten meat, eggs or fish. Never had a drop of alcohol. I try to buy organic foods as much as possible. I don''t even drink milk, too many hormones...

I don't think it's a hell region. Too many nice things, beautiful things in the world to explore and experience. There are bad people and bad people do despicable things. Everyone I deal with in my job, my neighbors, I treat with respect and kindness.It's part of the world we live in. Some guru's live in poverty and preach the word of God, shunning luxuries and money.

Others preach the word of God and fly in private jets, roll in Mercedes and Telsa's. Is that right or wrong? I don't know. Up to you to decide if one is "better than the other".

The author is a victim of self distruction via ego... My all pitty with the author of the blog.

Radha Soami Ji👏👏👏
Plz don't post anything aganist babaji and about RSSB. If u go inside u will know what is Babaji. Thanks.

Hi Pankaj
You wrote
"The author is a victim of self distruction via ego... My all pitty with the author of the blog."

I'm sorry I didn't see which school of psychology you obtained your degree from.

The High Court of Delhi, after much deliberation, has found Baba Ji and family guilty of non - payment of hundreds of millions of dollars of delinquent loans.

The High Court has found Baba Ji, family and associates responsible for hundreds of millions of dollars in delinquent loans.

On June 10th the High Court of Delhi ordered Baba Ji, family and associates to repay the High Court directly, who will then pay the Daiichi judgment.

The High Court has frozen Baba Ji, family and associates' assets until the bills are fully repaid.

The Singh brothers are no longer responsible for those hundreds of millions that Baba J, family and associates took as loans but didn't repay. Baba Ji, family and associates are now directly responsible, according to the High Court's order to repay.

It is only restating facts to say so.

Making personal accusations has nothing to do with these basic facts.

You may interpret the facts as you like, and there are many different views, many of which justify any sort of criminal behavior on the basis that God can do anything. Of course this logic completely turns away from simple principles of right living. The principles every legitimate Master lives by.

Baba Ji, please pay your delinquent bills, and encourage your wife, sons and other RSSB members, including those found guilty of fraud, to pay their bills and behave as decent human beings.

Hi Um
You wrote
"As far as I do remember what was written in spiritual literature about set criteria for recognizing any spiritual teacher, it is impossible to know who is a teacher or not.
It was, is and will always remain a matter of "belief"."

While it is impossible at our level to tell who is a perfect Saint, we can know who is NOT a Saint. And that is anyone who does not live by the simple principles of right conduct and honest living.

This can be found in much spiritual literature.

As Charan Singh taught, God doesn't violate his own laws.

One thinks as per his thinking power
Negative people have negative thinking.
So be positive, Never blame anyone without knowing the whole truth.
Firstly go Dera Beas Punjab and then justify who is right?
Babaji Or u people.
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

its very easy to say anything against anyone ...negative or positive .
One should go and search deeply about the matter before speaking stupidly about Guru .
Meet him personally if one has guts to do so.

No Spence,.
If one cannot recognize a true saint we also cannot recognize a false one.
THAT is the problem with seeking and following ANY spiritual teacher.
Only belief can help to take that hurdle.
When the inevitable doubts and questions arise `blind` belief will prove to be a weak foundation to stand on and go on.
Blind faith will hold as long as the circumstances are seen as `positive`

Many people turn their back upon their religious or spiritual beliefs when negative experiences hit them, arguing that IF there is a benign GOD, GURU or POPE or WHOEVER, it would be impossible that he would inflict this misery upon them. OR when the reality doesn't fit any longer in the CONCEPS one cherishes about religious matters. In all these cases SOME turn their back upon the institution, the clergy, the teacher or the transcedent as being FALSE.
One could also see into the CONCEPS and how one deals with them.

It make me think of the story of Jamun and Laila. His friends, out of good will did whatever they could to prevent him from marriage with Laila as according THEIR STANDARDS the girl was not fitted for their GOOD friend, on all levels. Jamun appreciated the good will and attention of his friends but in the end, smilingly he said: "Friends you should see her through MY eyes"

Only genuine love etc brings the stable foundation to carry on and not be disturbed by outer appearances. Like the pious people that go on praying for the welfare of themselves and those dear to them; they are not disturbed in their faith by whatever happens in the world, the actions of the clergy etc.

Many after the war turned their back upon the Lord.

It has always been easy to admire, love, have faith in children, parents, partners, politicians, clergy or whoever .. as long as the sun is shining.

Look the many divorces that started out with a solemn pledge to stay together for better and worse

I have to stop sombody is comming to visit

Why is this slagging group set up. What has it or the author have to offer except slander. What spiritual truth has he go he is lost...

Hi Rohit
No one should accuse another of being negative simply because they have cited facts.

The Securities and Exchange Board of India has found and ruled a few RSSB relatives of Baba Ji guilty of fraud in illegally siphoning hundreds millions of dollars to businesses with other RSSB Satsangis running them.

The new board of Religare also conducted their own audit and found RSSB initiates had illegally siphoned funds to companies that in part were owned by Baba Ji and his family.

Bloomberg and Livemint conducted their own investigations and found that the recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars of these illegal and fraudulent loans was none other than Baba Ji, his wife, sons and business associates.


The High Court of Delhi, along with the serious crimes division, conducted their own deliberation and confirmed these facts, and on that basis has ordered Gurinder, his wife, sons and associates, along with other RSSB senior functionaries, to pay back these fraudulently obtained delinquent loans directly to the court.

And further, they have ordered them not to sell any of their assets until payment in full has been made directly to the High Court.

When the High Court of Delhi determines that you are delinquent and must order you to pay your debts, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, that isn't good news.

Most of us don't need the High Court of Delhi to step into the role of collection agency in order for us to pay our bills.

These are facts. You may judge them as you like.

But to try to say the messenger is wrong for simply communicating them is false.

That over a billion dollars has been effectively stolen at the hands of RSSB leaders who have sworn their obedience to Baba Ji is bad news, this is true. But it is simply legal fact.

That much of these moneys went to Baba Ji and his wife and sons is bad. But bad or good, it happened. It's historical and legal fact.

And the fact that Shivinder, who was found guilty of fraud by the Securities and Exchange Board of India, and guilty of doctoring quality control documents and seeking tainted medications in the greatest penalty in the history of the United States Food and Drug Administration, has been given the authority by Baba Ji himself to teach spirituality by holding Satsang at the Dera is also bad news reflecting corruption at the highest levels of that organization.


Baba ji should live up to his vows and pay his bills, just like everyone else.

And Shivinder should humbly and silently serve the poor, learning lessons every day about how to live on less without theft or fraud from those who do.

And no one should get angry because of this.

We should all acknowledge that Baba Ji is delinquent in payment and offer to help.

Why pretend otherwise?


You have no right to blame anybody if you don’t know the truth. Put yourself in his place if someone donates his money willingly to you and later ask you to return it. Singh brothers received a lot of publicity as the News was on every News channel, when the younger brother was donating his share and now because of their financial mismanagement they want their donated money back.

https://m.hindustantimes.com/business/fortis-shivinder-singh-to-quit-join-spiritual-organisation/story-yTMxpWOf7HGH9GkknyqQZK.html

RSSB teaches us a path of spiritual development. Sewadars work their selflessly under the guidance of Babaji. All medical services, including medicine and in-patient care are provided free of charge in RSSB hospitals. Langar is served free of charge in Beas around the clock. Capable of feeding up to 300,000 people per meal. These are only a few examples.
Babaji guides us to lead a life of high moral values.
If you have any doubts just go there once.

If your any organ part of your body stops functioning or developed some disease, it doesn't mean the only solution is of amputation.
As a normal human tendency would be to live with it and only for the purpose of survival.

MEET SINGH, your comment should be: if you have the money to go meet him, because you won''t get anywhere near him face to face across the table unless you're a millionaire or a politician.

Hi UM
You wrote
"No Spence,.
If one cannot recognize a true saint we also cannot recognize a false one."

No, UM, you and I will have to disagree on this point.
Logically, those who hold the view you do cannot even trust their own judgment, let alone tell others how negative or false their differing views are.

If you believe what you wrote, then you automatically concede you can't possibly know the truth.

But I suspect UM, that when people say "you can't possibly know" what they really mean is "you believe differently than I do, therefore you are wrong. And I am enlightened and do know a true Saint."

I suspect this is what we are really dealing with.
Of course that sort of subjective perspective is entirely emotional without any basis in fact.

Yes, your personal love will paint a different picture. There is a subjective personal truth.

But a higher love and a higher truth would accept all objective facts.

And people can be swayed by emotion. Saints don't advocate blind emotion but knowledge from experience, facts, whether internal, but verified, or external and verified.

They provide a practice for you, which includes putting aside your beliefs and seeing things as they are. That works internally and externally. In both cases some self - discipline and effort are required.

But even in the case, for example, of Ekankar, a legitimate practice can be taught by charlatans, and have well intentioned followers, loving followers sincerely carrying on the teachings entirely unaware of the fraud, just as in the entire Mormon community, just as a decent car can be sold by a disreputable salesperson, or a nation with worthy attributes can find itself led on occasion by a fraud.

He has ruined people mind and cheated them in name of religion ... Should be severely punished...
So that people get to know the truth...

Thank you for bringing out the truth on this fake person.

Hi Spencer,
You are right, I have no capacity to differentiate between false or true mystics.

I wrote before that I didn't feel any attraction or negative attraction towards other teachers and acted accordingly without feeling the need to prove for myself that these negative feelings and thoughts were more than my own feelings an thoughts without projecting them on these teachers.
Yes Spence the consequence of this attitude can cause me to stay away from a genuine mystic because of my feelings and thoughts.

After the birth of the internet and its growth for many years I enjoyed the pleasures of information like a small kid in a candy shop. Hours I spend listening to this or that teacher.
Little by little my attention was drawn in again, realizing that there is no end to what can be known. Than it became clear to me that I don't live to know everything that can be known, eat all the food that can be eaten etc etc etc. and I started to search my own heart for guidance and direction.

In the same way, I am not here to better the world, find out who is a guru or not.

And Spence … that to make, drink and enjoy a decent cup of coffee I need not to believe anything, not even the divine.

And drinking coffee I came to understand that nothing that exists can be changed and that the desire to change oneself, others and the world around is, has been and will be the source of all misery.

Brian
Guru is God and God is Guru.God can do anything.God can cause famines,floods,storms,earthquakes and other calamities.God also showers rain,sun , wind and so many beautiful things.It is all His Mauz.
You cannot challenge God if you want to meet Him.You cannot challenge Guru if you wish to meet Him.And without Guru,you can never meet the God.
You can put condition for a Guru, if you do not want to meet God in this birth.Then,you have to wait for the next birth/s.And it is not sure that you will get a Guru of your choice or not.
So,if you believe that you should try to meet the God during this life time and Surat Shabad Yoga is the right path, Just follow the Path and see the Guru within,hear the Shabad and realise Him within.
Now,you may say you do not believe now in Guru and God,then I think neither Guru Nor God should find a space in your blog.

Life can be difficult and not easy to interpret, the purpose of why we are here, but surely the best we can do is live this tiny insignificant short life to the best of our ability instead of spending our time in trying to discredit others. All those people who are gleefully finding fault with another, although I do understand the knee jerk reaction when discovering there is some monetary mismanagement in the Guru's family, but surely satsangis believe in karma?

The guru, if he is in the wrong will also pay for his sins just the same as every other person on this planet. Why should we judge another when there is the most powerful Judge called God (or Kal?) who is administering justice to the people living on this planet and in the afterlife. I still have compassion for Gurinder, what a difficult role he has to play.

I am a very simple lady who moved out of India many years ago to be with my NRI children. I full depend them for my income so I have not been able to give even 1 cent in Seva. I do Seva in our local center cleaning the bathrooms before and after Satsang is over. Every morning I sit with the formless master but my desire to meet The form master was always so strong. Like I said I am very simple and cannot spend much to travel to him. But guess what? Every time he is in our center he comes to the outside of the bathroom stands there waits for me and give me the most beautiful smile filled with so much love. You don’t have to be anybody, you just have to have a strong keen desire and love for the lord. I don’t have anything to give him but he gives me sooooooo much.
Meet Singh you are right you one should meet him to really know the truth. Amar I’m sad your experiences are so terrible. I pray you experience what I do.

The important thing to understand here is the concept of lifting the corporate veil.
Singh brothers have lost money in various deals ranging from selling of Ranbaxy to Daiichi during the period of controversial ban by FDA on dozens of drugs leading to fines to mortgaing SRL stakes to bank for lending money.
During the course of event the court realized that the only beneficiary/profitable person left to recover the Singh brothers debt loss was Baba Gurinder Singh Ji. It is as simple as that Gurinder Singh did not incur loses in his real estate deals and other companies. Therefore the only way to recover money was to impose on RSSB. This in indeed is his success story or else Singh brothers would have been behind the bars by now.
An important question to ask is why Malvinder Singh took to convert to become a sage couple of years ago because he knew whats coming...All the debts and crises which only Gurinder Singh Ji can help them with all this trouble..
Yes being a Guru he does engage into business activities but the definition of guru is not just to practise spiritual duties but also to perform the world activities too...Instituions that massive with millions of followers do not run for free.
Friends money is essential to live in this world but important thing to understand is where its been invested(good or bad purposes)
Think about it!

Meena, I appreciate your kind words. I did not have a terrible experience. When you are involved and experiencing the path, you are engrossed in it.

My feelings are more along the lines of disappointment. That's all. Enjoy the atmosphere at your center and be happy.

Take care.

Dheeraj, it was Shivinder that wanted to get close to the dear and RSSB. He had even made plans to go to all the foreign centers to visit and get acquainted with everything. This was around the same time that the shit hit the fan with Malvinder's filings.

There is definitely more to the story than we realize. Malvinder has mentioned that Shivinder had his eye on the gaddi. Maybe the massive money withdrawal was to set up baba jis children and grand children for his departure. Who knows?

Fact of the matter is that he is embroiled in all this money. That's wrong, and the point of these comments.

Hi Um
You wrote
"And drinking coffee I came to understand that nothing that exists can be changed and that the desire to change oneself, others and the world around is, has been and will be the source of all misery."

Certainly by lowering our expectations of ourself we might find some happiness. But if we do not do our duty, how can we ever be happy?

This philosophy that says we should ignore facts cannot reach into our subconscious where we know we are lying to ourselves by pretending the harm done to others doesn't matter.

It matters.

Hi Dharam
You wrote
"Guru is God and God is Guru.God can do anything.God can cause famines,floods,storms,earthquakes and other calamities.God also showers rain,sun , wind and so many beautiful things.It is all His Mauz.
You cannot challenge God if you want to meet Him."

We challenge God when we turn from the facts He Himself has brought forth.

And we accept His will when we accept those facts.

Your statement assumes you have met God.

But God isn't a matter of just your small perspective. God is in every cell, ever atom, every particle and wave of light. All facts are good. We are always with God and are a part of God, and God is a part of each of us. No human being is closer to God than another, since all are His. Some are more aware of that connection, that is all.

Turning from facts is turning to illusion.

All saints teach us about right conduct. So there really is right and wrong. And true Saints teach us to do right, to the best of our ability.

If Gurinder is God, he is happy whenever anyone acknowledges facts.

If He is God, of course He is completely responsible for this Scandal, all conducted by RSSB initiates sworn to loyalty to Him, siphoning hundreds of millions to Baba Ji and his family and associates.

The question for Baba Ji isn't "Did this happen?" because that is already fact.

The question isn't even "why did you do it or allow it to happen?"

How can we understand any of the creation? It is.

There is no question at all. It happened. It's wrong by any Saint's standards, including Baba Ji's.

And this Scandal, regardless of Baba Ji's role, one of the largest frauds in the history of India, was conducted by a small group of Senior RSSB initiates and associates of Gurinder, including his close relatives and family members.

What does it mean?

Well it doesn't mean we should follow that example. This is a bad example.

And if doesn't mean we shouldn't love whomever we choose to love.

But when a brother or sister has fallen into a well, shouldn't we offer assistance?

We look down into the well, and see Baba Ji!

Shouldn't we be more willing and enthusiastic to throw a rope down for Him?

Or do we make excuses for doing nothing and say, "that can't be Him!..... He must have some reason for being in that well... Let's just leave Him there!"

Shame in you! Throw in a rope! Offer your assistance!

If you can't do this for Baba Ji, then what have you learned about actually talking a step forward to help when a brother or sister falls in a well?

No do not judge them. Acknowledge for yourself that they are there and then offer to help without judgment at all.

Really, from all that meditation, what have you learned if you can't lend a hand?


Amar beta don’t be disappointed. Our Hazur and Babaji will not disappoint. Hold strong to the path and be firm in the tenants of a spiritual life and see the lord work through you.
I am a nobody in this world but to him I am a special Deciple. He has always made me experience this when he visits us. Those visits are what we look forward to in our center. Many of us for money(too poor) or health reasons(too old) are not able to travel to him but he tirelessly comes to see us every year and even waits outside our Seva site to give us his gaze and beautiful smile.
I thank him everyday for the Seva and the center when I can spend my time productively in service of my fellow beings. Giving me the chance to serve. Don’t judge and ask why centers are being built,
We are so happy for that chance this is what he gives us the opportunity.

Hi Spence,
What duties you refer to?
Duties towards who or what?

Which philosophy you refer to?

How are these duties and philosophies related to what I wrote?

And with regards to facts; these cannot be ignored. One can pretend but they cannot be ignored.

Facts are just ONE thing. Next comes how to appreciate these facts and deal accordingly.

Call the desires or expectations, what else are they than the desire to CHANGE; change one selves, others, the world etc.. and are these desires not labeled as source of all human miserie by mystics like Buddha??
I don't follow such teachings and don't consider myself a Buddhist or whatever.
I just came to realise drinking coffee, looking outside the window, seeing, the crows in a nearby tree that they were born crows, live as such and die as the were born, crows.
Crows are part and parcel of the overall nature and all other things partaining to it die as they are born … they all live according there natural inborn laws.

The difference between plants, animals etc are only related to the freedom creating and re-creating the original habitat in terms of food and shelter.

I realise that this blog is for other things.

Hi Um
First I must share my gratitude for the thoughtfulness of your comments.

Here are my thoughts....

You asked
"What duties you refer to?
Duties towards who or what?

Which philosophy you refer to?

How are these duties and philosophies related to what I wrote?"

Deep within is the rule book, without words, in no particular language. The tablets, the commandments are living principles we find when emotion, desire, lust, anger, greed, jealousy, fear, anxiety, avarice, pride all subside. And in quiet and peaceful moments of no particular demand, observing the ebb and flow, they do.

The tablets of God rest on the bottom of a turbulent sea. But rising up high, flying above, the sea calms, and we can read them as clear as a book looking down upon the waters.

You wrote
"Call the desires or expectations, what else are they than the desire to CHANGE; change one selves, others, the world etc.. and are these desires not labeled as source of all human miserie by mystics like Buddha??
I don't follow such teachings and don't consider myself a Buddhist or whatever.
I just came to realise drinking coffee, looking outside the window, seeing, the crows in a nearby tree that they were born crows, live as such and die as the were born, crows.
Crows are part and parcel of the overall nature and all other things partaining to it die as they are born … they all live according there natural inborn laws.

The difference between plants, animals etc are only related to the freedom creating and re-creating the original habitat in terms of food and shelter."

Where we find ourselves is not a static place. All things are in motion. Even the crow has its journeys, paths, skyway, destinations and work.

Once we find ours, we should embrace them.

Then we can remain at ease even in the midst of battle. Then we conquer illusion befriending our sworn enemy. And the paper of that contract of war evaporates and in gold emerges a marriage contract with the source. We are living the true laws, and there is our peace, in our purpose.


Spence, reading you words I must bow my head before you in inability to walk where you seem to go.

You certainly know how it feels to be lost in a novel, movie or piece of music and weak up from it. That is what happened to me i.r.t everything religious and spiritual. The more i came literally and figurative to my senses, i started to become amazed how people were able to believe in what they called the divine.

Drinking coffee and observing crows, it became clear to me that there are people that have inner experiences of all sorts and those who don't. Those with experiences come in different categories, related to the cultural surrounding they happen to live in, their mental upmake and the content of the experience.

Some were ordered from within to start movements, preach this or that etc. Others felt themselves obliged to their fellow human beings tol fins a way so that they too could enjoy the inner experience they had and so started the birth of all sorts of what i would call "manipulations of the body/brain".

In the end I came to realize that I am just alive in par with everything else that is alive. There is nothing to be understood to be alive. If there was something before and is after being alive just faded away as unimportant for every day life.

So Spence, if you belong to those who have these inner experiences, you have to deal with them and others who don´t have them just don´t have them.

These experiences do exist as written facts of human history and they were always "give". Using the word given doesn't mean there is or should be a "giver", it only says that the person didn't create the experience. Call it a talent or gift.

You can plough as much sand as you like, nothing will grow on it.

Hi Um
You wrote
"You can plough as much sand as you like, nothing will grow on it."

In a lifeless place that is so.

But even in the desert, life manages to spring up in all sorts of places.

The desert flowers are small, not like the artificially cross - bred flowers in the shop.

Their colors are more subtle. You might look upon a plain and think nothing is there, hard earth. But there are actually several sub-biospheres there.

When you can look at your own subconscious and see that creative engine, and all that supports it, then you will see there is a world to explore, several. And you will understand that what appears to you to be right and wrong is substantially influenced by much we are not privy to in our normal day.

But that's all in you. Where else do you want to explore?

All creativity, all poetry, all courage and all understanding comes from there.

And where folks allowed that place to influence them unattended, unknown, unexplored, they acted unaware of their own lust, anger, greed, attachment, pride, fear, anxiety, jealousy. They became victims of that inner place rather than its knowing partner. And so those around them became victims of it just as they did.

Some attention there can lead to a cleaner understanding of everything else. And there is peace also in that desert.


Spence, I can only repeat what i wrote before: "reading you words I must bow my head before you in inability to walk where you seem to go".

What I know is just a little bit on how to use this body to make a cup of coffee .. all other things I know related to what is beyond, is just a matter of hearsay.

There were days I made myself believe that I could read and understand the writings of mystics and benefit from them … these days are gone. These writings were created in a state that i am not in, nor ever was, so I gave up that illusion.

Grandmother, peace be upon her soul if there is one, used to say: "little boy you can see the head of people but you can never look inside." So what we know about inner experiences of others are like dreams … we can speak about them, but we cannot witness dreams of others or show the content to others.

Yes, I do believe the prophet had visions in which an "angel" appeared that ordered him to write the holy book, but there has not been a god, angel or whoever that appeared to the masses ordering to take heed of the words of the prophet. What remains are his words, words people want to believe and upon they create their own goals for life. That is alright.

Let me end with the words of the late Charan Singh: "Brother, if you people had not brought it up I would have had no knowledge of it"

So spence, I have come to realise that if nobody had talked to me about the divine, I would never have had any knowledge of it let alone a longing for it.

The last years I try to get rid of all so called knowledge based upon HEAR-SAY … and found that not very much is left.

Hi Um
I agree.
Only, let's go the next step.
Find the book within yourself.
Find what's written in your own heart.
Experience your own inner experience.

You live there all the time. Find out more about it.
That's not anyone else's. It's yours to explore

Um, you say: "Drinking coffee and observing crows"... "In the end I came to realize that I am just alive in par with everything else that is alive." ...

"Whatever relation you have or had with any spiritual movement started with YOUR mental make up, YOUR thoughts, desires, hopes etc etc …. if there is anything to be found in this life regarding spirituality, it is to be found there, with YOU, inside YOU. Finding answers and making others outside yourself responsible for the thoughts you have and the actions you take will only take you further away from whatever goal you have in mind or heart. YOUR own life will teach you the TRUTH."

I really like what you've said. A simple life is best imo. Just being in the moment and observing life with an "unknowing" attitude. Thanks for the reminder. Way to go. Peace :)

What is unfortunately lacking in most of the commentary on this blog regarding the subject at hand is that we are dealing with two worlds here: the visible, linear one (composed of observable facts, court findings, etc.) and an unseen world where the reasons giving rise to these things involves the workings of karma that could be unfolding in bizarre ways to merely discharge a debt, or to further some kind of higher objective (including spiritual or redemptive ones) that we know nothing about.

The ultimate truth (and solutions to all the questions posed here) may lie hidden somewhere in the middle of these two realities.

It might be a good idea to remember that: (1) there is a whole world of cause and effect, the workings of which we can only imperfectly apprehend, (2) there are serious limitations to what we know about ultimate things, and (3) in view of the aforementioned, we might want to dig a little deeper.

To be clear: I don't deny that the facts are what they are, assuming they are not later overturned, mitigated, or set into a different light by subsequent judicial findings or rulings (which happens more often than most people appreciate). Yet, even if we stipulate that none of the presently known facts will change in any way, shape or form, there is still the pesky matter of what -- at a higher level -- lies behind the entire drama.

For those who are with an inquisitive and sincere heart interested in attempting to answer or resolve this "pesky" conundrum, I would recommend reading "Tales of the Mystic East." There are numerous wonderful stories in it of non-linear, higher truths that put various human dramas (once properly revealed for what they are) into an astounding, new factual, eye-opening and proper spiritual context.


splence
You are trapped in deep well.Guru is at the top ready to give rope to you, but you want him to explain his accounts and remain trapped.HE does not bother because there are many in queue who are seeking his help.
You do not need a guru.you are your own guru. Make some followesr whom you could give rope to help them out,but you yourself are trapped.

Dharam, you just wrote a very deep and meaningful line there: "You do not need a guru.you are your own guru."

Think about that for a minute.

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