Why the RSSB guru is responsible for financial fraud

We're conducting a psychological experiment on this blog. How is it possible that devotees of an Indian guru are unable to recognize the facts about his involvement in financial fraud involving hundreds of millions of dollars?

Comments on numerous blog posts based on reports in the Indian financial press show that denial is alive and well in the minds of those who want to believe that the guru, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, is a "perfect living master" rather than a money-hungry Indian guy who has been using his position as head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas in enrich himself and his family.

Some core facts are clear:

(1) The Securities and Exchange Board of India has determined that funds were fraudulently siphoned out of  a public company into shell companies. 

(2) Those illegal money transfers involved "round trip" transactions that required the collusion of conspirators at both the public company and the shell companies.

(3) The RSSB guru, his family, and close associates controlled the shell companies that received the fraudulent funds. 

(4) The Dhillon family and their close associates used the fraudulently-obtained money, in large part or entirely, to buy real estate and the High Court of Delhi has ordered that this money be recovered from the RSSB guru, his family, and other entities.

There's additional disturbing evidence, including a criminal complaint filed against Gurinder Singh Dhillon, and allegations of death threats involving Dhillon (see here and here). 

So how is that people associated with RSSB are having so much difficulty recognizing these facts? A couple of excellent comments on a recent blog post help explain why.

Here's what Amar wrote. GSD refers to Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

For you Westerners that are having trouble understanding the Eastern/Indian mindset, let me fill you all in.

GSD's sons and wife, are not only his family, but they consider him their guru first, family relation second. There is a double bond there that we can never understand.

They will do as he asks. Gurpreet and Gurkirat only have the money because the two Singh brothers dispersed shares of the company in their names, convenient since it would look bad if they put it in GSD's names. This was probably the only legal thing they did in all this.

Other high ranking satsangis that were on the boards of these shell companies had to sign off on the fund transfers because that's all these companies were setup for. So they were complicit in it.

To imply that GSD was caught up in it and didn't know what he was getting into because his sons, wife, or other high ranking board of directors in these 50 plus companies were doing things behind his back is laughable. If you know anything about GSD, you will know that he has his hands on this type of stuff. To imply he wasn't aware of this is insulting to anyone's intelligence.

Someone/some people had to come and say to him, "I've got a plan...an idea." None of this can happen to this level of involvement without his input. It's impossible. His own sons and wife would not have acted without his knowledge. It's not something that happens to this scale in an Indian family. Especially this one.

So get your heads out of the sand and look at the High Court orders, the SEBI Findings. And It's not over yet.

The High Court Garnishee order clearly states that all 56 entities must repay the monies back to the High Court to cover the $500 million dollars.

GSD's name is in the list. His son's names are on the list. His wife's name is on the list. The other names mentioned on the list are RSSB high ranking people. The companies mentioned on this list are shell companies which have all or some of these people as directors.

Legally they are all culpable. Fraud was committed and that has been proven. This was not a business. It was money laundering/siphoning from a publicly traded company.

There is more to come on this for sure. We can only speculate on that, but what has transpired here is legally processed and matter of history. The only question I still have and doesn't make sense to me is why the Singh brothers would do this to their own company.

And here's what Mr. Curious wrote:

Hi Dungeness,

As the head honcho, Gurinder's ultimately accountable for the illegal siphoning of funds to RSSB and his family (whether or not he knew about/ordered it). That's why he is among those implicated.

That said, it's extremely difficult to believe he knew nothing about this.

Long-time initiates, however, will have a much easier time with this. They've spent years/decades cultivating more far-fetched beliefs (Master will claim me at death, he is planted at 3rd eye center, he flies through [supernatural] regions at will, etc.), and are well-practiced in suspending critical thinking. I don't think any amount of evidence will change their hearts over night; it will take time.

That said, I can't understand how initiates who claim "GIHF" is an all-knowing being can now claim he doesn't even know what's going on in his own family. No doubt, some family secrets can be kept a long time (an affair years ago, etc.) but hundreds of millions of dollars are a hard thing to hide.

As a former initiate (different teacher), I can empathize with those who are having their faith shaken here.

I don't have any glee at the expense of the initiates. However, I am always gleeful when a hypocrite/abuser of power is brought down. Especially in India where justice has historically not been served. And yes, Gurinder is a hypocrite of the highest order. Per the RSSB literature, he supposedly lives off the fruit of his own labor.

OK, if your labor is fraud, that may be true.

My own former teacher was similarly a hypocrite. He taught the virtue of celibacy (except for reproduction), but he himself was accused of sexual misbehavior with several female initiates (and admitted to transgressions in 1984). I didn't stop being an initiate because he had sexual urges, but because he proved himself to be a hypocrite/liar (while claiming to be the keeper of truth).

It's important to believe in something, but one should never give up their power to another fallible human being (except the wife, I guess).

What pisses me off is not that Gurinder is fallible (we all are), but that he goes around giving sermons/lessons on values he knows nothing about and takes advantage of people who are in a vulnerable state. It's no secret that most initiates come to the path in a sorry state.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon

Comments

[Georgy Porgy]

Again, I ask the question directly to all those satsangis that know GSD or his predecessor, it’s a very simple question

Do you honestly believe that GSD or Charan Singh are interested in coining ppl for money?

I’m not a satasangi, never have been, I might be the only true atheist on this blog, unlike you lot who’ve known these guys for years and even decades.

[Brian Hines]

Georgy, I'm also a true atheist, so we've got that marvelous characteristic in common. I've talked with Gurinder Singh Dhillon a number of times. Yes, I do believe he is entirely capable of conning people for money.

I've heard from quite a few other people who have similar negative views toward the RSSB guru. Sometimes they are willing to have me share their emails on this blog, sometimes they aren't.

[Georgy Porgy]

What you mean true atheist, you been a believer for 35 years, now all of a sudden you not? Sounds like magic to me.

I’m amazed you say that about GSD, since he was chosen by the guru who initiated you, and if I’m not mistaken you had respect for Charan.

I hope you not lying to yourself to make a point cos then there’s no hope for someone like that. Better plain ignorance than lying to yourself.

[Anon]

I've talked with Gurinder Singh Dhillon a number of times. Yes, I do believe he is entirely capable of conning people for money.

Brian please elaborate as in the past you have clearly said that you have had a good experience with him and that you liked him and that not following the path was not because of him. Don’t give me other people’s emails just your own as this is not what you have said in the past. So what did you talk to him about (money or cheating) that makes you say this??

“I’ve heard from quite a few other people who have similar negative views toward the RSSB guru.”

And I have heard the opposite. Many many who have positive views towards the guru. So who is believable? The many negative or the perhaps even more positive?

[Brian Hines]

Georgy, I started this blog in 2004. Even before that, I was a largely atheistic follower of Sant Mat. I wasn't completely sure whether I believed in God. Likewise, now I'm not completely sure there isn't a God. It's a matter of probabilities.

So I've been semi-atheistic for almost 20 years, and avowedly atheist for around 17 years.

I have to ask: how would you know someone is lying to themselves? In the same vein, how do you know you're not lying to yourself? I think we have to assume that how people say they feel or think is actually how they experience their feeling and thinking.

Whether those experiences correspond to an objective reality outside of themselves is a different question. That's my problem with RSSB true believers who refuse to face facts about the financial fraud the RSSB guru is associated with. They are entitled to their own feelings, but not their own facts.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, Gurinder Singh Dhillon is an ordinary human being. He was ordinary before he became the guru. He's ordinary now. I never have felt that Gurinder possessed any special human qualities or powers. He's a charming guy, but lots of people are charming. Sometimes crooks are marvelously charming, which helps them exploit people.

I found that Gurinder made mistakes. In no way was he perfect or infallible. Again, he's just an ordinary person who found himself in an extraordinary job, being the RSSB guru. People look upon as divine, but that doesn't make him divine. Hope this explains why I find it completely believable that he has both benefitted from massive financial fraud, and helped orchestrate that fraud.

[Georgy Porgy]

My question was to do with the impression you had of these men as human beings, not gods. It’s a very simple question which is do you think Charan was a crook and charlatan or would be stupid enough to appoint a successor with such qualities?

If you do, fine - that’s your belief, but from what I’ve been told, and what I suspect, these men are not like that at all.

The person who should be posting on these blogs is Ashy who you seem to have banned for personal reasons. If you allow the posts (and quite possibly, insults) to flow, there are pearls of great wisdom in those posts in my opinion.

Now by way of background, you may be thinking we are colluding, but you should also know we are not bosom buddies. He has not asked me to do this. In fact, Ashy and I know each other from another blog where the scale of our insults to each other made this place look like a Mormon picknick. Im not saying you need to do that, but you are posting completely one-sided opinion pieces, which should be open to criticism from someone with a different and knowledgeable viewpoint. Mine is not a knowledgeable viewpoint. He knows all about this spirituality stuff and the background to all these shenanigans, I don’t.

If your blog is about freedom of speech then you should accept his opinion even if you fundamentally disagree with it.

Anyway, that’s it for me, tata and thanks for all the fish.

[Anon]

ok so because he is just a normal guy he must have schemed this whole thing? Not because you have any proof or even anything you spoke to him about made you think that. Just that he is “normal” like us so he must have been party to criminal acts? How can you justify this in your mind? Especially since there a so many people out there who have had the opposite experience with him. Don’t you atleast respect their thoughts? You don’t run your blog like you do.
Let me put it this way for you Brian. The person you hold very dear to yourself maybe your wife or your mother someone else is putting negative accusations on without completely hearing both sides how would you feel? I’m not saying you think they are right but just for a minute think about it, wouldn’t you want them to hold off and wait till your dear one gives her side of the story? But that’s not what you are doing... I’m sorry you may think your not doing that and you are being fair but from someone on the other side you are NOT. Hopefully you understand basic human empathy.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, there's no other side to this financial fraud story. There only are the facts as reported in the Indian financial press and reports by investigators in India. Gurinder Singh Dhillon has said nothing. He hasn't presented another side.

So all I or anyone else can go on is the available facts. When the RSSB guru presents his own facts, if they're believable, I'll consider them. Until then, the facts stand.

The guru and his family received fraudulent loans. They controlled the companies that conspired in getting the illegal money, They now are being forced by the High Court of Delhi to have their assets garnished so some of the fraudulent money can be recovered,

If you have evidence that contradicts these facts, share it. I'm just saying that from what I know about Gurinder Singh Dhillon, he is entirely capable of enriching himself by using his position as guru. Ordinary people can act illegally. Happens all the time.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Georgy
You asked
"Do you honestly believe that GSD or Charan Singh are interested in coining ppl for money?"

This is a good question. Those of us who have watched how Gurinder has managed the aggressive and unusual growth of international satsang centers, almost as a desperate rush to some unknown personal goal, what we see, if placed within the frame of human nature, is a type A personality aggresive to do better than any predecessor and to leave a legacy that will not be matched for a long time. A highly competitive personality that in the private business world would be considered ruthless and cutthroat.

He publicly and proudly announced that RSSB Sevadars go into dangerous circumstances to help where no one else does. Again, note the competitive psychology.

Since this was his approach in RSSB it is no surprise at all that he began to dabble in finance and real estate, especially as finance was his training. And his sons have followed his footsteps, not spending their days in philanthropy or public service work, but in investment, financial and corporate management. That he over-extended himself because of his own ambition has been mirrored in his behavior at RSSB. When Gurinder didn't get what he wanted, he got angry where most leaders would simply and calmly adapt. But it is so important to him to achieve precisely what he wants that backing away and accepting his own limited judgment is a source of anxiety.

So, in retrospect, it makes perfect sense that he would value getting huge results over the risk of using other people's money without the collateral legally required.

[Mr. Curious]

Georgy,

GSD may very well think he's helping people; the abuse of power could be unconscious, a result of narcissistic personality disorder. He may have actually helped some people as well (especially those who needed a father figure/something to believe in). These passages from a blog post articulate the phenomenon well.

"An 'abusive' guru is one that either consciously or unconsciously manipulates the trust placed in them by their devotees for personal, sexual or financial gain, or play emotional mind-games on them while for the most part genuinely believing they are helping their devotees and disciples by doing this.

Abusive gurus are almost always highly charismatic, and often have a lot of charisma and personal power, but little insight. They may be emotionally immature (although this is not necessarily the case), and the very worst ones (although fortunately a small minority) are parasitic sociopaths. The better ones are sincere and genuine in trying to help their devotees. The problem is, they believe themselves to be "Enlightened", when they are not. They may suffer from some degree of inflation and Narcissistic personality disorder, and having a tendency to sadomasochistic co-dependency with their disciples and devotees. They justify their abusive treatment in terms of pseudo-spiritual psychobabble like 'breaking down the ego', 'crazy wisdom,' etc."

[Spence Tepper]

In perfect Citizen Kane fashion, tonight nearly all of those huge Satsang centers and tall office buildings sit empty...

[Spence Tepper]

... Gathering dust, awaiting their inevitable sale.....

[Jen]

"...Those of us who have watched how Gurinder has managed the aggressive and unusual growth of international satsang centers..."

Okay, I do think outside the box and use my intuition and you may laugh at this but the thought came to me that Gurinder might actually be a visionary and has realised that there is a need to have these "unusual growth" centres because maybe in the future they will be needed when the sh*t hits the fan. Or maybe its just because RSSB is now becoming the new religion and these will be the 'churches' that people will flock to.

There you go peeps some "pseudo-spiritual psychobabble" ... lol

[Solomon]

Has anyone noticed that all the links to the news articles about the Singh brothers saga on RSSB website have been removed ....

https://www.rssb.org/articles.html

The question is Why ? Only a few weeks ago GSD had said in reply to a Q
that RSSB is not involved and all the news articles are posted on their website

[Anon]

Brian wrote
“ He has said nothing. He hasn't presented another Side. “

Your right he will not throw his own children under the bus. This includes the Singh brothers. He has not spoken for the same reason a father protects his children. He will not speak to the press, His lawyer will present his side to the court.

“If you have evidence that contradicts these facts, share it. I'm just saying that from what I know about Gurinder Singh Dhillon,”

Clearly both the brothers said he was not responsible for their downfall and Shivinder is on record saying they settled all their loans and cleared everything between them and the Dhillon family (inter-group) in 2013. This was before all the fraud and illegalities happened.
These so called facts I’m sure you won’t consider because it does not serve your purpose.
It maybe slow but the truth will come out.

[Anon]

Spence you wrote
“In perfect Citizen Kane fashion, tonight nearly all of those huge Satsang centers and tall office buildings sit empty...”

Ok your delusional. I was just at a meeting and there wasn’t a single seat Empty. Not that it matters if it’s full or empty but I don’t know what’s going on with you. Nonsense!!!!!

[Brian Hines]

Anon, you really need to read this blog more often and with more attention, because you aren't in touch with financial fraud reality. I'm pleased to enlighten you, because of my boundless compassion for people like you who are stuck in the muck of blind faith dogma.

Malvinder Singh has filed a criminal complaint against his cousin, Gurinder Singh Dhillon. So obviously he doesn't consider this scandal to be settled. So you're wrong about both brothers absolving the RSSB guru of his sins. See:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/02/legal-filing-against-gurinder-singh-dhillon-is-fascinating-reading.html

The High Court of Delhi also doesn't consider that the guru has paid up. Quite the contrary. They've issued an order to freeze the assets of the RSSB guru and his family, then use the proceeds of the sale of those assets to pay what Malvinder owes to Daiichi.

So the guru is a deadbeat who doesn't honor his debts, which, of course, were illegal loans -- but loans nonetheless. No honest living for the guru, for sure. See:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/06/delhi-high-court-orders-recovery-of-money-from-rssb-guru-and-his-family.html

Truth is what is preached on this churchless blog. You should give truth a try sometime. It's WAY better than the dogma you believe in.

[Anon]

Brian you are the one who needs to read better.
Let me enlighten you

“Malvinder Singh has filed a criminal complaint against his cousin, Gurinder Singh Dhillon.”

Firstly you got the relationship wrong. It’s his uncle not his cousin. Shows how much you know about what you say. Do you really know anything about this Brian or are you just a parrot of what you read?

“So you're wrong about both brothers absolving the RSSB guru of his sins”
You are wrong about this. Here’s a quote from both brothers printed in the press.

“But they also said it would be “untrue” to suggest that the guru was a cause of their group’s financial troubles. “Malvinder and Shivinder are unequivocal about this: Mr. Dhillon is their spiritual Master,” the brothers wrote. “He has only ever acted out of love and has only ever had their best interests at heart.”

Also Shivinder is on record as saying that “their accounts are settled and closed as of 2013. “

2013 was when he was detected with cancer. This is when they Settled and closed!!!

These guys lost a lot of money and worked the system. now feel that they can pin the blame on the guru. It’s the most convenient thing to do. He being a father figure to them and to us too so he has kept quiet and not reacted in a way most of us would. That does not mean guilt.
The Guru has and always will be honest in his living.
You have no idea what really happened but behave like you suddenly know it all because it serves your purpose of proving to yourself that you were right to give up on the promises you yourself chose to make.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, it seems you're as bad at genealogy as I am. I've been told by a reputable source that the relationship between the Singh brothers and the guru is that they are cousins. Here's how I put it in a blog post a few months ago:

"One thing I learned from the story is that seemingly Malvinder and Shivinder Singh aren't nephews of Gurinder Singh Dhillon, because the story says that their mother, Nimmi, is the guru's cousin.

I'm terrible at genealogy, but a person who is more knowledgeable than me emailed me last year, saying that the relationship of the Singh brothers and Dhillon is first cousins once removed. Some news stories say Dhillon is their uncle, and I've gone back and forth between "uncle" and "cousin" in my blog posts.

Now, though, I'm going to stick with cousin."

Here's how someone explained it to me in an email:

"Charan Singh was the father of Nimmi.
Nimmi is the mother of the Singh brothers.
Gurinder is the son of Charan’s late sister and therefore Charan’s nephew.
The grandchildren of your uncle are not your nephews. They are your first-cousins once removed."

Do you agree, Anon? If so we're on the same wavelength as to the Singh brothers and Gurinder being cousins, but not on other things, like the guru's culpability for engaging in financial fraud.

[Dungeness]

So the guru is a deadbeat who doesn't honor his debts, which, of course, were illegal loans -- but loans nonetheless. No honest living for the guru, for sure.

Maybe he's broke... :)

Seriously, maybe his attorney counseled him to remain silent until
after the seizure is finalized.... or until his atty negotiates privately
with other defendants or plaintiffs... or perhaps the whole family is
still maneuvering to liquidate cumulative assets. That can take a
while as anyone who's sold property knows.

I'm not a lawyer so obviously most/all the above is speculative
gibberish. But the point is other factors --legal and financial or both--
may explain he and his family's silence and delays. Obviously, he
will have to make a more fulsome response to his supporters to
regain any measure of trust.

Withholding judgment isn't preposterous allegiance to the Guru or an
apologist's blind uncritical faith however. Every disciple understands, or
should, the enormous financial and legal jeopardy for GSD and his
family. There is a duty to hold him accountable for that behaviour. No
one is shirking that or looking for a way to sweep unethical actions
under the rug.

But, that doesn't extend to calling him --or anyone else-- a deadbeat
without waiting for the denouement. Whether you subscribe to them
or not, there may be other more credible, mitigating factors that are
operative. Unless, of course, you've concluded his behavior already
damns him and the seizure of assets cinches it. Of course then that
makes the whole family --not just GSD-- deadbeat scumbags, doesn't
it...

If you're not convinced of any reason to wait and you think it's apt
though, hurl the insult, ramp up the rhetoric, ya could even fantasize
GSD doing the "perp walk". But, there again the whole family --not just
GSD-- could be sweating on the chain gang under a sweltering Indian
sun, eh?

In my opinion, that imagery --along with the hateful epithets and
recent, ludicrous psycho-babble-- diminishes you... not him.

[Kaur]

You are trying to create disbelief and handedness for last many decades but you can not see that followers are increasing instead of decreasing. Are you blindfold to see that billions of followers are experiencing reality that He is living God on earth. Sikh Gurus were also liked by negative energy people but they come back again with different bodies. God never can be killed. While normal people with 7 feet body can die with simple thing like heart attack. Moreover fraud was done by his relatives who were operation g that business and involved with it. Why are you dragging His name into picture because He is famous and have billions followers? For your kind information due to this money fraud his younger sons in-laws relation has got broken by His relatives. Do not drag Him into it. He does not take care of business neither He has that much time for all these things. I know that you graders delete all my messages because it speak truth.

[JSS]

I am neither for/against GSD, or anyone else for that matter however, I would be deeply concerned if I was a follower of this man following all of the articles/developments in the last 12 months.
And now, the Delhi High Court have clearly made a judgement against GSD & family/friends, ordering GSD to pay back the funds to the court and furthermore, put a block on GSD selling any of his assets until the settlement is completed.
If any of the articles that have been released in the last 12 months, why didn’t GSD sue the publisher? I work in Finance and if anyone published an article, doubting my financial integrity, I would sue them immediately.
Furthermore, the fact that the Delhi High Court have now ordered GSD to repay funds to them, so the Singh brothers settle to Daichi, is quite damning.
My point is this; If someone was a true holy man, wouldn’t that person spend all of their time helping the needy and vulnerable? Where does partaking in dodgy dealing come into a Holyman’s job description? And, I am not even going to accuse GSD of being a fraudster/charlatan at this stage however, the facts are, increasingly loudly, speaking for themselves.
If anyone has any questions, you can contact GSD & family directly as their contact details are provided on the previous court papers. I have done so and wasn’t overly impressed with my interaction.
“Let justice be done though the heavens fall”

[JSS]

Kaur, do you realise how sad you come across on this blog?
Comparing this fake holy man to Sikh Guru ji’s? In some instances, they sacrificed themselves & their families, but stayed true to their beliefs. What has GSD sacrificed?
“Guru” Ram Rahim Singh claims to have 70 million followers...does that mean he is the “real deal”?
Please, for your own dignity, don’t listen to me, Brian, Anon or anyone else...just read for yourself the “facts”. Their is only one sane conclusion after that.

[Sumit Sharma]

You people do not know about whom you are talking but its ok that is your point of view. We do not have any hatred for you. God bless you #anon & #blogger brian....

[Kartik]

I didn't see where have you shown that Guru Gurinder Singh Dhillon is accountable? Your heading is very different from body . If you know punjabi then you must know this line of Guru Arjan Dev ji "sant ka nindak maha hathyara". Narak mein jaoge.

[Kush]

No point in discussing such things in the comment box of a blog ...

None of it is going to matter or make a difference in what has to happen...

Those who have faith in RSSB will not believe it , those who don't, will .... At the end of the day u will reap what u have sown.... Be it Anybody at all .

[Amar]

Sumit, Kartik, and Kush, you have no idea what you're talking about. Would you, before following RSSB, have followed another guru who was embroiled in this type of a financial fraud scandal? I highly doubt it.

Please, look at this from a perspective as an outsider, like a spectator: clear glasses. Would you join a religion or philosophy if you did your homework and found this out about the leader, or his immediate family and high ranking sevadars? I think if you honestly use your sense of discrimination, you know what your answer would be.

I'm not saying the teachings are false or untrue, quite the contrary, I think they are good ideals and important ideals to live by. The individual professing and teaching these ideals should hold themselves accountable to the same standards, whether philosophically, or to the law of the land.

[Garima Singh]

Really you people do not know about whom you are talking but its your point of view .
Baba ji ....not only the dera cheif he is "ENTIRE UNIVERSE " cheif
Gurbani says VO SABHNA NU DENDA VO ANTARJAMI.
SO Baba ji never interested in coining ppl for money ...
Gurbani also says - "sant ka nindak mahahatyara".

[anami]

Kartik, I don't know Punjabi but looked it up. "Sant ka nindak maha hatyara."
Does it mean "Abuser of a Saint is a great murderer?" "Narak mein jaoga."
"Will go to hell?" Those are strong words. Which RS Guru ever spoke such darkness?

[Anon]

Brian Again with all due respect You do not know what you are talking about. He is their uncle. The relationship is correct and according to google this is what it’s called
“the common name to call your cousin’s children is niece or nephew. They would call you aunt or uncle”
It doesn’t matter what the relationship is what matters is how you don’t even know the relation let alone what happened in their financial dealings. You have an agenda...it’s to prove to yourself that you were right for not keeping the promises you chose to make, not obeying the guru you chose to follow. Hazur Maharaji never told you “come follow me” you did it out of your own choice.

It’s like a divorce you leave your spouse and then feel the need to deflame her to make yourself feel better or feel right.
Well if that’s how you feel about your choices then good for you but no need to put others down in the process which is what you do blog post after blog post.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, it took me 30 seconds of Googling to learn that the children of your cousin are first cousins once removed, which is exactly what I said in my comment above. So I'm correct. See:

https://www.famlii.com/what-relation-cousins-child-to-me-second-cousin-once-removed/

Yes, in the English language they typically are referred to as nieces or nephews, or aunts and uncles in the other direction. See:

https://www.famlii.com/what-call-cousins-child-family-relation/

My point is simply that you were wrong when you said I had no understanding of Gurinder Singh and his family. Actually, I was totally correct.

I'm always pleased to be proven right, so thanks for providing me this pleasure.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
You asked
"Not that it matters if it’s full or empty but I don’t know what’s going on with you. Nonsense!!!!!"

The vast Majority of the Satsang centers around the world sit empty most of the time.

Great halls where occasionally, perhaps once a week, a small number gather for Satsang. But on over 330 days and nights every year they are empty and dark. Once every couple of years or so the Master visits for one or two days, and then they are packed....

Otherwise, empty. A very poor use of capital and time. Wasteful. The rush to build empty halls. With other people's money.

Years ago the Sangat didn't own any property except the Dera, which is well utilized and now has a town of full time residents.

But this unusual move to build so many large halls when the local Satsangs had no where near the numbers to fill them, and then add gardens that are only enjoyed by those who tend them, and homes nearby for the Master... For that one or two days every one or two years he visits.

These do nothing. All this work to make a place for him. But the real Master is within. We are already living in the perfect temple.

This marks Gurinder from all his predecessors. Constructing what is used less than 1% of the time. Waste, waste. Vanity of vanities.

[Amar]

So.... Anon, what do you make of the High Court decision that FORCES, LEGALLY, that GSD and his sons and his wife and his daughter in law and his right hand man Sunil G. to pay the High Court directly, money for repayment. Forget the guru is God stuff. Tell me how you rationalize this event.

Baba Ji's own eldest son was in court with his lawyers to answer and sign off on these demands by the Court. Baba Ji is named in the verdict form the Court. Direct answer please. Explain this.

I have no ill will toward GSD, I just choose to not follow him as I used to. You may choose to continue as if nothing happened. But let me know why this is irrelevant. Why do you think this matters or doesn't?

[Osho Robbins]

Georgy Porgy wrote (above)
about Brian:
"What you mean true atheist, you been a believer for 35 years, now all of a sudden you not? Sounds like magic to me.
I’m amazed you say that about GSD, since he was chosen by the guru who initiated you, and if I’m not mistaken you had respect for Charan.
I hope you not lying to yourself to make a point cos then there’s no hope for someone like that. Better plain ignorance than lying to yourself. "

People change, Georgy.
It's also not "all of a sudden"
It is healthy to be able to change your viewpoint and opinion.

In fact the "lying to yourself" is far more likely to be the person who doesn't
change and move on.
I used to follow thakar singh - and I left way before all the bad publicity
I left because I did not see an authentic honest person and I could not
continue with him as I would be lying to myself.

Brian may have had respect for Charan Singh. In fact he most likely had respect for GSD until he left. But things change. Nothing remains the same forever.

I am not even sure it's about "respect"

Clearly people who follow the RSSB path believe it is a valid path to truth.

GSD has challenged many of the core beliefs of RSSB.

The truth of the matter is - lots of people are going to have to examine what the RSSB path is to them and what it really means. The "Lying to yourself" might be what the believers have been doing for decades.

anyway - relax
listen to some music
tinyurl.com/NOORAN9

[T.R.Chhabra]

Ultimately,a saint must not have his involvement in wordly in any way.especially
when choosen & appointed GURU-PAD.

[Shiv]

Request u not to spread misbelief.
Mera SATGURU can never be like this.
Pls stop wrong propaganda immediately . . . .

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Shiv
You wrote
"Request u not to spread misbelief.
Mera SATGURU can never be like this."

Never? How can you be so sure?

[Anon]

Amar I will explain to you since you asked me directly. The brothers sold their company and distributed the proceeds amongst different investments. This was done as a group between them and the Dhillons.
The brothers clearly lost most if not all their capital plus ended up owing many other entities including Daichi.
The blame game started between them and neither one can be believed.
Now they want the Dhillon family’s investments. As you can clearly read from the letter Malvinder wrote to Babaji.

Master is always for settling all that is owed. This is why the family settlement letter said “you have not been settling the liabilities so revert properties back to us and we will work to settle the liabilities”

Yes the eldest son was there as they will make sure money goes where it needs to and not in the hands of those that have ulterior motives.

[Dungeness]

These do nothing. All this work to make a place for him. But the real Master is within. We are already living in the perfect temple. Constructing what is used less than 1% of the time. Waste, waste. Vanity of vanities.

I agree the Master's always within and must be found there but Satsang is
integral to the Path. It becomes problematic to find/schedule/rent suitable
venues for large crowds recurringly. I'm sure the cost/benefit analysis was
carefully worked out.

In the case of Vancouver BC, I believe the property was reasonably priced
and ideally sited for accessibility. The value-added accrual from landscaping
and building construction would certainly mitigate costs of relocation too if
ever needed.

The precious and essential seva contributed over the years became a labor
of love. Ask those involved if they regret any moment of it.

[Kunal]

Please don't spread fake news kindly its an humble request to the admin of blog

[Anon]

Hi Amar I replied to you with a long reply but it seems it hasn’t shown up.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, your version of events suffers from a big flaw: reality. The truth is found in the SEBI (Securities and Exchange Board of India) report and a complaint filed by the board of Religare.

The money that ended up in the pockets of the Dhillon family didn't come from the Singh brothers. If it had, why would Malvinder have filed a criminal complaint against the RSSB guru, his family, and close associates for conspiring to siphon funds from a public company, Religare?

In truth, as I've been reporting, Sunil Godhwani (guru's right hand man) plus others at Religare, I assume, orchestrated financial fraud with the complicity of people at the shell companies that were controlled at the time by members of the Dhillon family and their associates.

This wasn't a case of the Singh brothers generously giving the Dhillon family a bunch of money. That could have been done privately. Instead, Religare and SEBI have shown that money from a public company was siphoned off in a fraudulent fashion to the RSSB guru, his family, and close associates.

[Promila Manhas]

Dear All
If your ego is got satisfied then stop spreading such things because it will not return your anything other than haterdness. Whatever happened in family business but it will not break the trust that one has in RSSB. I am not able to understand that you are against whom.
I am also educated, an engineer and very logical. Our outer space is totally different from inner space. If a lot of people all over the world loves him that does not mean they all are foolish or blind folded.
It is my request to keep your garbage only up-to you for humanity. If you don't wanna that it is your perception as it will result in as your are expecting. It's your wish, your decision, go ahead and all the best!

[Anon]

Brian you are mixing the 2. I am firstly replying to the money that was distributed from the sale of Ranbaxy. That is the money Malvinder has been claiming that he was jointly (as a group) invested into real estate. I can look for his statement and post it if you don’t remember.

With regards to fraud in Fortis and Religare these are companies operated by the brothers and Sunil G and this occurred at the time when Master was tending to his health.

[Amar]

Hi Anon. I appreciate your comments but you're not understanding the full gravity of the findings. As Brian has just stated, you need to dig a little deeper into the full story and you will see what has transpired.
You cannot pick and choose certain facts in isolation.

Go through the blog posts which reference the court documents, the High Court decisions and the SEBI findings. Spencer and Brian have elaborated extensively on this and what you are stating is not as per the findings. Please dig deeper and you will see how this unfolded, and will continue to unfold.

[Osho Robbins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eTmlwFlyQQ

I just came across this - about Scientology. 40 mins into the video
and he talks about the crazy beliefs of the sect.

people believe anything.

He talks about beating people up and they are not allowed to fight back.

You can believe in anything - and once you buy into it - its hard to get out.
This guy's mother was in scientology - so he was born into it.

Now his mother is not even allowed to talk to him.
She honestly believes that if she does - the whole world will get destroyed

once you believe - that belief runs your life

nobody escapes a belief until they themselves see the absurdity

[Amar]

Hi Osho. I've sen the show on A&E regarding Scientology. It is unbelievable that people can fall into this type of nonsense. So it does make it easier to understand the psyche of someone immersed in whatever religion they are following. Until you get above the clouds, you can't see what's going on.

The other issue is that once you realize it and try to leave Scientology is when the real trouble begins with cutting ties or even leaving the cult's compounds.

[Anon]

Amar I have responded to you based on the information provided on the court documents itself. You can find them online and read them all, a few are very long but have ample details in them that are not included in the news stories that are released. For instance if you read through the full 60 plus page filing of Malvinder you will get a clear idea on his motives.

I realized very quickly that this blog is biased, so I don’t pay much attention to what Brian or Spence say. Brian definitely has an agenda it doesn’t take much to see that. He blog posts every negative comment about the Master and the path and pays no heed to anything remotely positive.
But you don’t have to take my or Brian’s or Spence’s word for it, I highly recommend you read the documents.

[Amar]

Anon, I have read the documents.
Implying bias, maybe you should read the documents without bias and see what jumps out at you.

It's not just reading the doc's, it's the court orders and SEBI findings that make it official.
This is not about me trying to convince you or anyone else of anything. We're discussing the facts and findings and court rulings. These are facts. They've named the guru, his family and high ranking sevadars as now owing the High Court money. Fact.

You make up your own mind.

[Anon]

Amar you wrote
“They've named the guru, his family and high ranking sevadars as now owing the High Court money. Fact.”

The court order says that the Singh brothers owe Daichi a penalty for concealed information when they sold Ranbaxy. The money that came into their hands after the sale of Ranbaxy were invested in many different entities. They made these investments as a group with the Dhillon family and others. Now that they (Singh brothers) can’t make good on what they owe Daichi the court has ordered others pay their share. That’s the fact. Something wrong with that? Having your family invest money in property is a problem?

Amar I don’t need to make up my mind. I trust my Guru. You don’t that’s your choice. I know he has not done anything contrary to what he guides us to do. You may think it’s my weakness that I trust him and you are smart to trust your mind. It’s ok That’s your choice.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
You wrote
"With regards to fraud in Fortis and Religare these are companies operated by the brothers and Sunil G and this occurred at the time when Master was tending to his health."

If only there was some logic here.

Why did Baba Ji, his wife and sons accept nearly a billion dollars in fraudulent loans they didn't repay?

I'm not interested in your conjecture, Anon. Please present some actual information that explains why.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Promila Manhas

You wrote

" If a lot of people all over the world loves him that does not mean they all are foolish or blind folded."

It might. Even more millions loved Adolph Hitler.

That's a love worthy of a little hatred.

[Jesse]

Spence,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Just sayin, man.

[Amar]

Anon, what you wrote is nonsensical. You’re saying that the court asked GSD and his family to pay Malvinder and Shivinder debts. Why, because they’re family? How idiotic is this?

Next time somebody owes money for stolen monies, the court can arbitrarily name you and you will be forced to pay.

Use some common sense! I cannot believe you’re either that stupid or simply that ignorant. You decide which.

[singhsahib]

he should be jailed and his family removed from managing the cult

also uk usa and canada should investigate and recover the tax breaks for charity donations and go after every individual that has received a tax deduction on charity donation

these thieves have robbed western tax regimes the irs and uk tax should get the money back Canada as well

we are talking billions here take the assets sell it and disband this fraudulent cult