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June 13, 2019

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“At the heart of the alleged fund diversion is Gurinder Singh Dhillon... and
Sanjay Godhwani. Six promoter-related companies were used to effect the
funds diversion," the first person cited above said on condition of anonymity."

"According to the second person cited above .... was advanced to Dhillon family
members and Godhwani"

"... was advanced to Dhillon’s sons Gurpreet and Gurkirat Singh Dhillon."

Again in my opinion, there's a subtle spin to this anonymous "first person"
characterization. His remark "At the heart of the alleged fund diversion is
'GSD' and 'Sanjay G.' pointedly shuffles the "Baba" and Sanjay G. to the
front of the usual suspects. Kinda like a frustrated teacher jerking the
most likely brat out of the class and sending his fanny to the principal's
office.

Why did "first person" do that? Had he wearied of mentioning all the
suspects who coulda been complicit in the actual fraud? Or were GSD
and Sanjay just the two bubbling up to the top in his need to winnow
down the pool of suspects ? Was there major investigative pressure from
brass to just go after a "Mr Big" and a major side-kick?

I mention this because In later cited paragraphs, GSD morphs into the
"Dhillon family", sons, and Godhwani. So, did speaking anonymously give
"first person" free rein to run his mouth a little, shoot from the hip about
the suspects he "liked" for this caper? I suspect so in these circumstances.

The Dhillons are culpable. But who among them is really the guilty one and
needs a refresher in RSSB boot camp? Who merits pious homilies from
Blogger Ji's for good measure?

I suspect many out there in CofC are like "first person". They wrap their
spin in words of piety like "healing", "apologies" and "taking responsibility"
as if they're lecturing a third grade delinquent. They don't extend due
process or consider alternatives.

"Teach" didn't spot the sly culprit jabbing the brat with a ruler before he
retaliated throwing the class into an uproar. It's easier to short-circuit a
careful investigation and get the class under control. The brat was
undoubtedly guilty of something after all. You can keep an open mind
only until you lose control or fear for your sanity.

So, convinced of their suspicions, investigators vent a little. Who can
find fault if they speak anonymously and are careful to throw the token
words "alleged crime" in a few times. We all grow weary and have to
be reminded we too can slip because we're too invested in "being right".

Seizing and freezing assets of directors is not uncommon where corporates are fighting to recover money, especially if it’s a large sum - far as I can read there is no finding of fraud against any of the personal individuals

How this has been put front and center at the feet of the guru is well and truly beyond me, but no doubt the ‘non-trolls’ will give us the ‘facts’.

Anon has clearly explained this to you. What more do you want from me?

My instinctive take, unlike the CoC disciples who feel this a black-and-white hanging offense, is that the real problem started with the Japanese company buying a lemon - but I have no idea how they recovered this dosh - and that a few of the furs family members that are running this mess have got to greedy and are now blaming the guru to try hide behind me - but blame him for what? Poor guru can’t pick his family members and is now stuck with this unholy fkn mess where all fingers are pointed at him where he is just one of many stakeholders who seems mostly completely divorced from the running of the business.

Georgy, I'm not anti-guru, nor have I spoken one disparaging word about him. What drives me and others crazy is that there is not even a glimmer of considering the facts, especially what the courts have ruled and ordered upon.

You can't dispute the court ruling based on forensic audits. Have a response like " I see that he has been called out along with his family, but that's okay, I'm going to continue with my RSSB journey despite this." I would accept that. Not the response I would have, but hey, at least there is acknowledgement and a response. Not denial.
Being ignorant of the facts is unacceptable and not transformative. To parrot idiotic statements without understanding anything in context is just as ignorant. GSD himself has said, he doesn't want blind faith.

What does that mean? It means study the teachings, study the teacher, then decide. If you do this knowing the facts going into it, you can only have to answer to your self, not me or anyone else. Base it on facts, not dogma, but published verified court oroder facts.

Hi Georgy
There is really no explaining your remarks.
What makes your actions a troll is that you are geared to discredit others you have specifically targeted personally rather than simply present factual and verifiable information and your view on that.

Nothing in this website has anything to do with personalities.

Everyone who contributes, and that isn't everyone, is willing to have their perspective questioned and alternatives offered with support.

CoC wasn't established simply to rant. Generally the only rants here are individuals who have been harmed by their experience at RSSB.

Or others bent on tearing those people apart for reasons no one can know.

Once again I offer to you to present any objective factual and verifiable information, the definition of Truth I have learned more about from Brian Ji, and I will take my responsibility in the conversation to review it in detail.

Otherwise, if you look at what you have presented in that light, as a defender of RSSB (regardless of whether you are or our not an initiate, you have chosen to attack and defend, but without evidence or reason, on behalf of RSSB) you will see that your approach can only appeal to emotions, blind loyalty and all the mob emotions that were never the intended purpose of Sant Mat.

As for innocent man or men, you need to mount a fact based case, because what you are doing as a defense of Gurinder has no substance to any thinking adult. It is merely defending the leader, a leader you do not know and have nothing to defend with.

But as a troll, you are fillig the requirements to a T.


Amar,

Have a response like " I see that he has been called out along with his family, but that's okay, I'm going to continue with my RSSB journey despite this.".

So issue no 1, as a guru his role is spiritual teaching - far as I know this has got nothing to do with any other material aspect of life, including what he does for a living. Personally, I have the view that a holy man should be irreproachable in every aspect of life - but who says he should be to be a spiritual leader. This is quite possibly both mine and your western conditioning - but doesn’t mean it’s true. If you don’t view him as a good spiritual leader then turn to someone else.

Issue no 2, I don’t think he’s guilty of being a crook, ie fraud, which seems to be what many of you are trying to make out. This hasn’t been shown in the court documents and until it has, he remains innocent. What the documents show is that certain of his, and many others, assets have been seized - presumably to somehow try recover the massive sum of money that needs to be repaid. It sounds to me that the only one throwing the guru under the bus, in addition to you guys, is one of the family members who is actually responsible for running if this company and this unholy mess.

Issue no 3, if he’s completely innocent, one hopes you lot are never in similar shoes - imagine how you’d feel reading these comments

Issue no 4, if you are really so outraged by his behavior - why not go question him directly. Grill him on it, if you don’t get the answers you want, leave.

Spence

Go sip a lemonade with the shepherds / - it’s a sunday.

Don’t get so angry. Watch your BP it looks like you might blow a gasket.

I’m many things but not a liar, I do think you are an idiot - maybe others don’t. Sorry, but shepherds started it, sparrow entanglement confirmed it and the Boeing conspiracy drove it home. Who flew over the cuckoo’s nest, mad.

Spence you wrote
Anon, if you have actual proof that Shivinder and Malvinder held directorships or ownership units in these three companies during the fraud, you will have to do more than state it.
Spence you wrote
“You will need to provide hard evidence. Links that prove what you say was true during the time of the fraud. SEBI states you are wrong.”

I wish I could just post a screenshot here but I’m not sure if it can be done so I will point you to the site

Www. Zuabacorp.com
Plug in the companies best, fern and modland and you will see that shivinder is a director in all 3. Along with that Rana Gill and rajveer Singh are also directors in all 3 amongst other people. Spence I don’t know who these 2 people are and I am only going to speak for Master so I will stop there as I don’t know Rana and rajveer.

Furthermore just look at who Sebi claims in their notice the beneficiaries of the money were it’s the 2 Singh brothers
They don’t mention these other people.so let’s stick to what we need to.

So your claim that Master is party to this whole scheme is incorrect.


And Dungeness, who believes, even after the High Court of India ruling that surely there must be another real ruling, a true final conclusion sometime, somewhere in the future, and we should all just remain inactive and patiently wait.

For someone who rails against personal attacks, you've gone full tribal,
Spence. At least quote the offending remarks that are "Exhibit A", the ones
to definitively establish "I'm waiting for a true final conclusion and think we
oughta just remain inactive".

No, I never advocated "inactivity" or blind belief in any arena. Several
times, I've commended Brian Ji (never as effusively as you) for calling
attention to facts reported in the Indian press.

As I recently note however "the Court has ruled and applied appropriate
remedies." In its wisdom, however, the Court didn't conflate GSD with the
"Dhillon family". Or opine where the preponderance of blame should go.

That's the spin I heard from you and others that was objectionable. Photo-
shopped pix and clear intimations that GSD is a guilty, greedy con man were
also objectionable to me.

For God's sake your signature sign-off was "Pay da man, Dude". Never once in
the beginning did you accurately identify the suspects as "Dudes and Dudettes"
who needed to pay up. Eventually there's scant mentions of his family. But even
later, you'd slip back into GSD attack mode. He alone became culpable "Dude".

You delivered pious homilies galore though at every turn and always to the one
you fingered as the class "brat". The "one who needed to be shamed, lectured,
and sent to the Principal's office for a good paddling.

Amar/in search of you said
“My parents developed an unhealthy relationship to money because running after maya "money" was wrong and the root of all evil. ”
Amar yes I agree with you the path teaches us to keep a balance in life and not merely run after money. But that being said money is also needed in life for survival. And in the process of earning this money if you are able to make a good amount which is in your luck/destiny then don’t get attached to it. Use the money don’t let it use you.
It does not mean do not even try to earn money. It’s all about balance.

You also wrote
“ GSD himself has said, he doesn't want blind faith.”
I didn’t have blind faith in him and neither do I have blind faith in what the people are accusing him of. This is why I have read every Sebi report and article and have come to the conclusion I did. You think I’m just defending the master that’s your choice. I have read everything I don’t think that’s blind faith my dear.

Spence I don’t need to reply to your livemint article as dungerees just did. Like he said it’s based on anonymity and and email they received. I have the most recent Sebi report on fortis which came out after this article was written and it makes no Mention of master. End of story

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/mar-2019/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_42418.html

"the Court didn't conflate GSD with the "Dhillon family". "

I guess not, but Gurinder's name appears in some places on court documents.

But even if it didn't, I'm not sure what any of the non-Indians here know about India, but it is a formally patriarchal society, and I don't mean that in any insane feminist definition. When you fill out any forms, apply for loans, or do anything else, your father and husband's name is part of that. Even an Indian passport contains your father's name. It's not Saudi Arabia, but it ain't America either and there isn't the same separation of an individual from his family there like there would be in the west.

I say this because YOU ARE INSANE IF YOU THINK GURINDER WAS UNAWARE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING. People know what their family members do in India. It's not the strangely atomized west where people live in oblivion while their kids are out at 3AM on drugs and their wife is sleeping with the guy in the next house and nobody knows.

My God, stop the discussion. This is so annoying. You're gonna make excuses, I get it. Just do it over at RSSB.Org where official opinions prevail.

Spence you wrote
“How can Anon, after reading a government audit that states "not promoter related" and then claim "see, it says promoter related!"?”

I checked the directors of these companies and saw that shivinder was on all 3 of them this is why I said promoter related. But my eventual point is that the promoters benefited from this. Yes all 3 companies colluded but This doesn’t make any difference to me as my point to you is that these companies are not related to Master. That is where we started the discussion as my point is that this report of Sebi does not have anything to do with Master.

Hi Anon
You wrote
"Www. Zuabacorp.com
Plug in the companies best, fern and modland and you will see that shivinder is a director in all 3. Along with that Rana Gill and rajveer Singh are also directors in all 3 amongst other people."

Yes, please take another look at their page.
Rajveer, an associate of Gurinder, has been a director since February 13th 2014.

But Shivinder only became a director after the fraud, in September 24th 2018.

Shivinder was not associated with Modland Wears during the fraud.

And the exact same pattern holds for Best Healthcare as well.


Shivinder was not in control of those companies. But associates of Gurinder were.

You can read about Rajveer in the article originally posted on the RSSB website.

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

And if you will please take a look again at the SEBI order you will see on Page 4 that that their auditor, MSA Probe was hired on May 10 to examine the diverted funds from 2011 onwards, when neither Shivinder nor Malvinder were the companies referred to were not promoter entities.

Once again, you have leaped to a false statement. In addition you have ignored the audit of the Series Fraud division and the live mint independent audit, both pointing to hundreds of crores siphoned as interest bearing loans to Gurinder, family and associates.

Hi Anon

Just to clarify that the fraud took place when Shivinder was not a related entity of the companies, specifically on Page 7 of the SEBI order..

"
(7)FHsL had entered into multiple structured transactions over a period starting from June 30,2016 till June 30, 2017, which were prima faciefictitious and fraudulent in nature.These pertained to various ICDs granted by FHsL to Best, Fern and Modland,which were shown to had been squared off at the end of each quarter.However, in reality, the ICDs were not squared off but were fictitiously and fraudulently shown to have been repaid through a structured movement of funds between FHsLand the borrower companies at the end of each quarter to give rise to an accounting fiction that the payment due for all the ICDs has been received. "

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/mar-2019/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_42418.html

So you are wrong to claim repeatedly that these were all Shivinder's companies. They were independent and being run by other Satsangis, including Rajveer.

You wrote
"Spence I don’t need to reply to your livemint article as dungerees just did. Like he said it’s based on anonymity and and email they received. I have the most recent Sebi report on fortis which came out after this article was written and it makes no Mention of master. End of story"

Once again, Anon, you have not read carefully.

The SEBI order for payment went out in November 2018, and a hearing was set due December 2018, where the defendents filed their responses. These were posted in October 2019 for the public. But the order went out in December 2018.

This order was for 500 crore rupees, and was referred to in the Livemint article of February 19, 2018.

"The Securities and Exchange Board of India (Sebi), too, suspects that the total size of the Fortis fraud could be much higher than the ₹403 crore it originally estimated, a second person familiar with the development said, requesting anonymity.

Sebi has already passed an order against Fortis to recover ₹500 crore from the Singh brothers for funds diverted to the promoter and promoter-related entities in December."

You see Anon, SEBI has estimated after the December order that the amount could be much higher..... From the article... In context

" The Securities and Exchange Board of India (Sebi), too, suspects that the total size of the Fortis fraud could be much higher than the ₹403 crore it originally estimated, a second person familiar with the development said, requesting anonymity.

Sebi has already passed an order against Fortis to recover ₹500 crore from the Singh brothers for funds diverted to the promoter and promoter-related entities in December."

Now Livemint, as a good journalist, went further and conducted their own audit of the trail of funds, just as the Wall Street Journal does occasionally...

" According to the second person cited above, funds from Fortis or Religare group companies were extended to any of these six companies and a portion of these loans were advanced to Dhillon family members and Godhwani brothers.

" According to the financial statements of these companies reviewed by Mint, ₹430 crore was received by Best Healthcare from Fortis and Religare group while ₹207.15 crore was advanced to Dhillon’s sons Gurpreet and Gurkirat Singh Dhillon.

" An additional ₹287 crore loan was extended to the Godhwani and Dhillon families out of the ₹496 crore received from Fortis and Religare by Fern Healthcare.

" A sum of ₹223.15 crore was also advanced to the Dhillon family by Modland Wears, ₹152 crore by Adept Creations and ₹8 crore by Rosestar Marketing Pvt. Ltd (cross holding with Green Line).

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

I'm sorry Anon but you have failed to defend against these facts.

And in some cases you simply refuse to see what is on the written page.

I get it.

Read the live mint article again tomorrow after a good night's sleep and some quality meditation.

Is OK to be wrong. I'm wrong every day... But I'm also learning every day. That's how it works...


Oops.. February 2019 was the Livemint article, after the SEBI December 2018 order hearing.

Anon, you wrote: "... it's all about the balance." I tried not to laugh when I read that.
You haven't answered my question regarding GSDs frozen assets along with his family members. Where is the balance now? If he didn't have anything to do with it, then why would his assets be frozen and be forced to pay?

Did he not raise his kids with the understanding that you need to keep a balance on money and life? Why is his entire family and daughter in law now in hoc? Something very wrong here.

It doesnt trouble you? Then all satsangis should start borrowing money and pretend to pay it back and instead invest in real estate. Hoping the market goes sky high so that when they've got "enough" money, they put the money back. Not sure what enough is really.

Regardless of what you've read in the reports, his assets are frozen and he's forced to pay. Are you a better forensic auditor than everyone involved?

By the way, Amar is my real name. When I started posting I used In Search Of, because that's what state I was in. Now I'm on a path to understanding myself and feel I can use my name. Anon, that can't be your real name.

You keep saying you've answered my question, but you haven't. His assets are frozen and forced to pay. What if, and he and his family most likely don't have the money to pay it all back, then what? If the court decides to put some or all in jail/house arrest, then you'll probably have an answer for that too? Right?
You can explain everything away, but can't explain away the court decision, or can you...?


I say this because YOU ARE INSANE IF YOU THINK GURINDER WAS UNAWARE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

Please note I never asserted GSH was unaware... only that he shouldn't
vilified as the sole "perp"... before or after the court's ruling.

Oh God, I didn't make that clear though... you're absolutely right.
I shoulda SHOUTED THE POINT FOR THOSE HARD OF HEARING.


My God, stop the discussion. This is so annoying. You're gonna make excuses, I get it. Just do it over at RSSB.Org where official opinions prevail.

Excuses, excuses everywhere you look. Cease and desist. End the
discussion.... cover your ears.

There was evil, the "Baba" was guilty, and the HC ruling proves it!

I'll stop. You should to!

Reading the double speak and re-writing of history here makes me think
RSSB should be relabled 1984

The 1984 gang at RSSB reminds you that big brother sees all.

“And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth. 'Who controls the past' ran the Party slogan, 'controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.”
― George Orwell, 1984

"If you want to keep a secret, you must also hide it from yourself.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Until they become conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“We do not merely destroy our enemies; we change them.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“You are a slow learner, Winston."
"How can I help it? How can I help but see what is in front of my eyes? Two and two are four."
"Sometimes, Winston. Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once. You must try harder.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.”
― George Orwell, 1984

For if leisure and security were enjoyed by all alike, the great mass of human beings who are normally stupefied by poverty would become literate and would learn to think for themselves; and when once they had done this, they would sooner or later realise that the privileged minority had no function, and they would sweep it away. In the long run, a hierarchical society was only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance.”
― George Orwell, 1984

“But it was alright, everything was alright, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”
― George Orwell, 1984

Spence you wrote
“Shivinder was not in control of those companies. But associates of Gurinder were.
You can read about Rajveer in the article originally posted on the RSSB website.”

Oh ok so you are claiming guilt by association???? I just want to point out toYou that both Singh brothers are as much associated to master as rajveer is if not more. Just because rajveer is an associate doesn’t mean Babaji did anything.
I don’t need to explain this to you as you and the rest of the blog readers already know this. Please Spence show me where in the Sebi reports it actually says that Master was responsible you cannot prove that because it’s not the case AT ALL. I know many people did many things but you are pinning blame on the wrong person. You
Are jumping to conclusions it’s not good.

It just malkes sense if one among us sends Him a questionnaire over a questionable issue concerning Him as well, making media headlines every now and then alongwith a prayer that we , a few of us, have been spitting over and over again staining the walls of this internet space given to this blog. reading your Spiritual credentials upside down in. light of same and. more often wrestling against each other in verbal duels proving ones might over other/s , pro or cons, concerning your Holiness.

Being confounded and paralytic in believing exactly opposite to what is being put out by tne Media as the Herculean thought now and therefore
submit to Your Holiness your take and guidance, my / our saviour.

Wish He responds!

Spencer, Anon cannot answer the question. Nor will he come to terms with anything anyone says that's contrary to his belief system or blind faith. It's something he's built his entire life around.

He could see GSD smoking behind the satsang hall in Petaluma, and he'd have an explanation for that too. Doesn't matter what you say, he's blind to anything that contradicts his faith.

I don't see how anyone reading the articles can only say that everyone else is complicit, except GSD. They're all complicit. If they're named in the court order, they're all complicit. How much and to what extent, I'm hoping that will be flushed out soon.

Again, why is GSD involved in this? Even to a minor extent, it should be cause for a double take. I think it's pointing to something a lot more but we'll have to wait and see.

It's very telling that if you really had nothing to do with it and your name was being dragged thru the mud with multiple death threat allegations and money fraud, you would be screaming from the hilltops that it's not me, I had nothing to do with it! Right?

Dungeness, there's only one person calling himself God. One person with that much authority to have millions of people call him God. There are implications in that which are too enormous to be spelled out.

Less time writing in theater script form and more time figuring out the obvious.

"show me where in the Sebi reports it actually says that Master was responsible"

Did he hire any of them? Did he receive money from any of them from fraudulent loans?

All of this is a fake news 😀

HE wanted to have some fun, and HE did it with a BANG.

This is what it is, sorry Spence, Amar, whether you understand it or not,
you can not do much about it.

One thing to appreciate,
I think Brian has posted possibly around 50 posts on this topic by now, that shows his writing/typing capability and patience, simply amazing.

However, the content is nostalgic and lacking the fun now.

If you want some real mind numbing fun, try meditating at 3 AM.

Amar you wrote
“If he didn't have anything to do with it, then why would his assets be frozen and be forced to pay?“

Let me ask you? Do you know why this is the case? It’s not because of the Sebi report on fortis fraud. His name isn’t mentioned there at all. It’s very clear on that report the beneficiaries are the brothers.
Is it because of the fact that Malvinder said that he can only pay Daichi if Master pays him? Seems this decision came after that. Ok Malvinder owes Daichi and he cannot pay so those who he claims to owe him pay Daichi directly. Isn’t that what it says? Like you said more will come let’s see what comes.

Why is masters name even involved in all this you ask? If you do business with someone you are putting yourself out there to be involved aren’t you? It’s common knowledge to all the brothers were in business with the Singh family even before Ranbaxy was sold. And it continued after that.

Amar wrote
It's very telling that if you really had nothing to do with it and your name was being dragged thru the mud with multiple death threat allegations and money fraud, you would be screaming from the hilltops that it's not me, I had nothing to do with it! Right?
Regular people yes. But not a Guru. Didn’t Jesus say”forgive them father for they know not what they are doing”. He didn’t say “don’t crucify me I didn’t do anything, it’s not me.” Right??

If you think his silence is a sign of guilt that’s your perspective...not everyone thinks like you. Are we wrong? And your right? It seems that you need every initiated person to agree with you and Your views on the articles And media reports.

"This is what it is, sorry Spence, Amar, whether you understand it or not,
you can not do much about it."

Only true thing One Initiated will ever say.

There's nothing any of us can do to change any of this, but we can laugh at the decadent spectacle of thievery known as RSSB and all of its jesters scrambling to defend their most obviously corrupt guru.

Go do your mediation, people. You claim to love this guy and want to serve him. He's never once asked you to waste your time defending him online. Be a good slave and keep your opinions between you and the inner sheister.

Hi Anon
I appreciate your thoughtful replies.
You and I simply believe different information.

1. I believe the evidence of the SEBI preliminary audit, which built upon the earlier audit by Luthra and Luthra demonstrating fraud. SEBI's Preliminary audit and order also shows that the Singh's used shell companies illegally to siphon funds. Shell companies run by other Satsangis. I believe their judgment that this was fraud and that not only the Singh's but the shell companies are responsible for the fraud, and responsible to pay the money back.

2. Then, I believe the audits conducted by the SEBI subsequent to their preliminary order, as well as the audits of the Serious Crimes Division of the Delhi Police, and the additional independent audit by livemint demonstrates Gurinder, his sons and wife received hundreds of millions of dollars in unsecured interest bearing and fraudulent, illegal loans which they have not repaid.

3. I believe the High Court of India's judgments, based on the above and the additional audit of the new Religare Board which demonstrates that the recipients of these fraudulent, unsecured and illegal loans knew about them and colluded in their acquisition. And further, from the above audits, that among the recipients is Gurinder and his family.

4. And I believe the judgment and order of the high Court of India holding the loan recipients responsible to repay what they took, with all interest due, is right and just. Indeed it is compassionate, because it does not bring criminal charges, which might be appropriate. They will certainly be justified if payment is not made.

All the loan recipients, including Gurinder, his sons and wife, have a window of opportunity to respond to the order with some defense of their actions, and that is also fair.

However, the high court has already deliberated, and ordered Gurinder, his wife and sons, and several others, to repay their delinquent loans. And further, since they are delinquent, and no effort to pay them earlier has been made, their assets are frozen until payment is made.

All the above I believe is right. Gurinder, his sons and wife, should pay their delinquent bills.

But I understand that this is based on what I see as overwhelming evidence from several credible and independent sources.

And I understand that you view those sources differently and have a different conclusion.

I respect that.

Man, this Anon is good.
Game set and match people.
Just admit when you wrong.

Anon, you explained away the court's decision. Typical and what I would expect. Keep on keeping on, you have just proven exactly what most people here have determined. Doesn't matter if it slapped you in the face, the truth is meaningless. You don't get brownie points for writing what you're writing. Anyone with an ounce of selectivity and impartiality would recognize that hmm, there might be something there, might I'm going to have to wait and see what comes next.

You can't even do that. So that makes your analysis irrelevant. In science, you look at all the inputs, make observations, analyze, then conclusions and recommendations. So we're at the inputs, observations and analysis stage. Conclusions will be forth coming and we can speculate.

That's how a normal person evaluates and responds to input. We do it when shopping for the family, to voting in the next leader of our nation. You're doing it selectively. Again, I'm not trying to change your mind. You're just dismissing everyone except GSD. You're even throwing his own wife and kids and daughter in law under the bus to exclude GSD. That doesn't help your defense of GSD because you're showing extreme bias by not even considering anything. That's dangerous.

It's not about me or anyone else trying to be right. It's about you admitting that it could be. Even if it's just a 5% percent chance, you won't admit it. That's where you lose credibility. You think everything can be explained away. When the next shoe drops for these people, we'll all wait for your brilliant explanation as to why it doesn't apply to GSD.

Spencer has elaborately explained in great detail for anyone to understand. Your bias and blind faith won't allow you to see what's in front of your face. Not even one, single piece of report or finding.

You epitomize he mindset of anyone steeped in blind faith and dogma.

Good luck to you, this back and forth with you is futile. Have a nice life and deep down, I wish it were as you say, but most of us live in the real world and we have to look at the facts and rule of law. What you describe goes against that.

Hi Amar
I think you can let Anon and Georgy off the hook, because they make their own case better than you or I.

This is a public blog, so anyone can see for themselves both arguments, and the quality of those arguments.

I'm glad they have given full expression here to their positions.

Hi Spence, you're right.


Go do your mediation, people. You claim to love this guy and want to serve him. He's never once asked you to waste your time defending him online. Be a good slave and keep your opinions between you and the inner sheister.

Well put. Of course, we're all enslaved by the fun of a good argument til we
reach Nirvana or equivalent.

P.S. For those who wonder, "sheister" is a Yiddish variant of "shyster".


‘then Majaraji, Jaimal Singh, Brian Ji and all the saints of all creation are here to help the healing process’.

Hey Spencer - I see your particular perspective is now throwing Brian in with some of the RSSB big guns. Do we need to contact the pope?

I wonder if Brian is cool with being constantly referred to as a Caterpillar D10 with a halo?
I reckon he’s more like ‘a very naughty boy’ https://youtu.be/plZRe1kPWZw :-)

Time for some buckwheat.

Spence there is a major hole in your conclusions about where the high court garneshee order came from. You say it came from the original Sebi fortis audit amongst other audits into the Religare fraud case. All these audits by Sebi show that companies like best,fern,modland along with other companies like Devera were complicit in the moving of funds and are part of the Sebi order. But look at the high court ruling. None of these companies are in the list of 56. No best no fern no modland. Why? Why?
Because the garneshee order is NOT from the Sebi report it’s from what Malvinder claimed was owed to him. Not even one of the 56 entities are owned or operated by Malvinder or shivinder.
Again you believe your conclusions and I will go with what I have read in the Sebi reports.
Master is not part of all this. His name is being dragged in because of the business the Dhillon family did with the Singhs. Believe or not your choice.

Amar you wrote
“You're just dismissing everyone except GSD. You're even throwing his own wife and kids and daughter in law under the bus to exclude GSD. “

I have merely been talking about the Sebi reports and the findings do not include him and thus the garneshee order is not based on that it’s based on Malvinders claim. Which is not what Spence is claiming in all his conclusions.
That being said I only know Babaji in all of this. I don’t know the Singh brothers,rajveer,talwar or even his kids or wife. I have only been in Master’s company. I have only spent the last 25 years daily with the form within through this form that I know outside...my guru.
So to answer you Amar I can only speak about Babaji.

Amar since you mentioned your parents who have been on the path for a while. May I ask you what your parents think of all this?

"P.S. For those who wonder, "sheister" is a Yiddish variant of "shyster"."

Interdasting. Kind of sounds Yiddishy but I never knew that it was. Like schmuck and shtick I guess.

English is such a strange thing because it has absorbed so many words from all over, but all of the words we've taken are now finding their way into other languages. Was listening to a video of a Thai girl talking about Bangkok vs countryside Thailand, and she kept saying "civilized" and "lifestyle." It kind of made me sick to hear those words infecting the Thai, but that's what Empire does. Infects everything.

Anyway, back to Gurinder gossip.

Amar says: "He could see GSD smoking behind the satsang hall in Petaluma, and he'd have an explanation for that too. Doesn't matter what you say, he's blind to anything that contradicts his faith."

Reminded me of my one and only trip to the Dera and sneaking off with another person and sitting on the river bank and smoking a cigarette. There's something about being a bit of a rebel which all of us have inside us, except for the social justice warriors who spend their lives finding fault with others.

No-one is perfect including Baba Ji. Obviously people like to argue and seem to enjoy conflict but its so simple really, to just embrace our imperfections and enjoy life. But then, this blog would not continue and I do realise it is a good place to vent our feelings and I enjoy reading all the different points of view.

Hi Anon. They have no idea this is going on. Quite frankly, if they did hear about it, they couldn't get their heads wrapped around it anyway. They are blissfully ignorant.

As far as you saying you only know him. I don't think anyone knows him except his immediate family and very few close friends or advisors. What you, me and the other hundreds of thousands of people see is a man fulfilling his seva, his duty. That's it.

I recommend you read David C Lane's extensive research on the Sant Mat tradition and in particular the Radha Soami research he's done. Very eye opening and interesting reading. Gives one perspective.

Amar I have read all of David lane’s writings. Been watching his you tube videos on RS teaching and various lines for a while now too. I find it interesting that you think because I am saying something you don’t agree with I may be just going on blind faith. Does it not occur to you that there are people on the path that actually Have developed inner faith? That much more in inside with the Master than that which is outside? Seems like you think everyone is just dumb, unread and oblivious to what’s going on.

Hi Anon
You asked
"You say it came from the original Sebi fortis audit amongst other audits into the Religare fraud case. All these audits by Sebi show that companies like best,fern,modland along with other companies like Devera were complicit in the moving of funds and are part of the Sebi order. But look at the high court ruling. None of these companies are in the list of 56. No best no fern no modland. Why? Why? "

Follow the timeline of events.

Deloit and Haskins were the accounting firm Fortis depended upon for the certification needed to maintain their status as a publicly traded company. But Deloit and Haskins found irregularities in the books and refused to certify the company. And this was reported to the SEBI.

At that point the Fortis board hired a second accounting firm to clear their name. The Luthra and Luthra audit conducted at the direction of the Fortis board, confirmed the irregularities in the transfer of funds through unsecured, illegal loans by the Singhs. This was also reported to the SEBI.

The FORTIS board used the Luthra and Luthra audit to force the Singhs to resign, and by way of that, save the company. The Singhs insisted they were innocent.

The SEBI did two stages of audit. The first established that shell companies unrelated to the Singh's colluded with them on the fraudulent loans. At that point they ordered Singh's and the unrelated fraudulent companies to pay everthing back.

But this was an interim judgment, based on only prima facie evidence, which you can confirm in their report.

At this point the court in Singapore had ruled that the Singh's had to pay an FDA penalty for tainted meds from their days at Ranbaxy. This is the largest penalty levied by the United States Food and Drug Administration in history, 500 million US dollars.

But this penalty was now against Ranbaxy, which was now owned by Daiichi. And so this, in combination to petitions from Malvinder and the new Religare board, brought in the Serious Crimes division of the Delhi police.

Religare had conducted their own audits, and in their EOW claimed their audit proved not only the Singhs, but all the loan recipients knew about and participated in the fraud.

The SEBI was still digging deeper, and in conjunction with the investigation of the Serious Crimes Division, determined the recipients of the loans, including Gurinder and family.

Because of this, Livemint conducted their own research and confirmed the loan recipients, including Gurinder, family and other Satsangis, and the amounts they owed.

In the meanwhile the High Court of India had ordered the Singh brothers to pay the Daiichi settlement, 90 days passed and no money was paid, and so they stated they would send out garnishment orders to the loan recipients.

Those were not defined by Malvinder. They were determined by the ongoing investigation of the SEBI and the Serious Crimes division, based on both Malvinder's claim and the audit and EOW of the Religare board.

SEBIs auditing was continuing, and, in conjunction with the Religare audit, and confirmed by the Live Mint audit.

These audits demonstrated that Gurinder and family owed hundreds of millions of dollars in unsecured and unrepaid loans.

The SEBI initial audit order only went to the Singhs and the shell companies. Their deeper review, in conjunction with the serious crimes division, and at the complaint of Religare, went right to the loan recipients, Gurinder, his wife and sons, and many of his loyal Satsangis involved in the fraud.

Spence, another excellent comment. Maybe one day Anon will have her blinders pulled off and realize the truth of the RSSB guru's deep involvement in this financial fraud.

Regarding the shell companies, here's another idea. Apparently they only served as conduits for money to be siphoned from Fortis/Religare into the pockets of the Dhillon family and their associates.

Seemingly by this time the assets, if any, of the shell companies would be known to Indian authorities. If a shell company had no substantial assets or cash, there would no point for the High Court of Delhi to include in the list of entities subject to garnishment so that the Daiichi award could be paid.

I'm not saying this is what occurred. It's just a believable hypothesis.

Brian, I'm wondering why you did not post this on the thread "What's next for the RSSB guru and Singh brothers scandal?"
.................................

Amar says: "He could see GSD smoking behind the satsang hall in Petaluma, and he'd have an explanation for that too. Doesn't matter what you say, he's blind to anything that contradicts his faith."

Reminded me of my one and only trip to the Dera and sneaking off with another person and sitting on the river bank and smoking a cigarette. There's something about being a bit of a rebel which all of us have inside us, except for the social justice warriors who spend their lives finding fault with others.

No-one is perfect including Baba Ji. Obviously people like to argue and seem to enjoy conflict but its so simple really, to just embrace our imperfections and enjoy life. But then, this blog would not continue and I do realise it is a good place to vent our feelings and I enjoy reading all the different points of view.


[ Posted by: Jen | June 17, 2019 at 04:10 PM ]

Amar, a failed student, recommending a diligent one to read a book
from an author, Dave, who miserably failed a subject.

Explaining, this is how we fail. you shall try as well!

Spence, adds the icing: Yeah, you all should learn to fail because SEBI says so.

The lamp won't lit with the dirt.

Amar, nobody is going to share their oil with you, you lit your lamp with your own oil.
here you are collecting the dirt and ignoring the oil.

Anon, it was a suggestion to read it. If you feel you're an ignoramus, dumb and unread, that's on you.

I don't care if you have inner faith. If you did, you wouldn't care what anyone wrote here anyways. The tone and defensiveness you show clearly indicates you don't.

One Initiated, appreciate your comments. Everyone lights their own lamp. Everything is within us. If you feel you need to have someone "light it for you" then that's what you believe, good on ya.

There is no magical touch from someone who's never seen you or talked to you. That's what I believe. It's all in you. You go within with your efforts. The only thing worthy of our love is the inner Self. Nothing outside. There is no magical cross continental astral touch the guru transmits.

We probably agree to disagree. Your life, you believe what you want. I'll believe what I want. I don't need to prove anything to you, nor you to me.

We all have our own path, our own struggles, and our own pains. There is no judgement from me about what path anyone follows. To each his/her own. Just be honest and open to the truth. Don't be ignorant of the facts or project personal dogma with the arrogance some here have done. Not saying its you... 🙂

One Initiated, you think Anon is a diligent student? Based on what? Please elaborate. And how Is David Lane one who miserably failed a subject? A little judgey aren't you?

Or is it that good old RSSB arrogance coming thru?

If Anon is not a diligent student, then you are not failed one either.

everyone has to be a judge of their own deeds, their own proceedings on the path.

I am a nobody to judge David Lane, he has himself set his path.
he will reap the rewards of whatever he has sown throughout his life, whether they are going to be sweet, sour or bitter - no one knows.
that's between him and his Master.

but everyone has to judge for himself/herself to what to follow and what not.

the more you accompany the lovers, the more your heart will get filled with love,
the more you accompany the aethists (even by reading them) - the more you get filled with doubts and slowly move away from the love.

company matters, sangat matters - a lot. really a lot.
even matters what you are reading on daily basis. what you are listening, this all is company, what you are surrounding yourself with, slowly it will start to color you the same way.

if you are accompanying yourself with the stuffs/texts/people who are dried of love, your love will start drying up as well, you can not help it. And finally a day you will turn yourself into a dried up tree who doesn't have any fruits to share to anyone - what all you can share is what you have inside you - you will start spreading this dryness in others too.

those who don't have the inner support, will always judge the Masters with outworldly rules and regulations, created by whom ? by Masters ? no. it's all created by the Lucifer.

You judge the Masters, the defeaters of Lucifers, by the laws of Lucifer.

You are bound to be failed, because one day you will also win over Lucifer,
when you win, you will be failed on your judgement towards the Master,

tears in your eyes will only be the wealth that you own at that point.

these millions, billions, trillions are nothing more than the dirt for HIM. to make a better sand fort, you need more sand - HE is managing the sand per the need of the hour - you need not to judge the things you don't have slightest understanding of how it's going to work out. by doing this you are simply wasting your ultra precious breaths.

months long, years long tears are needed to wet the dry land of your heart,
to make it worthy and capable of sprouting the seed of spirituality.

had you ever tasted the flavour of inner bliss, you were not in this pit of aethists.

I am nobody to mention this, I am a toddler on the path,
but, Babaji is a True Sant Satguru and HE reveals it on me in every discourse that I attend by HIS grace. HE shows HIS grandeur and I go spellbound, my breaths goes away, my lips and tounge freezes, my eyes becomes blind into the light, my eyes gets filled with tears, my body shivers in love.

it's much better to be blind into the light.

on this planet every single being is blind.
those who are against the Masters are equally blind - however they are blind into the darkness.
the lovers are blind into the light.

"even matters what you are reading on daily basis. what you are listening, this all is company, what you are surrounding yourself with, slowly it will start to color you the same way."

That's why I'm glad you're here, One Initiated. I want to make you more like me. WELCOME TO THE DARK SIDE

One Initiated wrote...

had you ever tasted the flavour of inner bliss, you were not in this pit of aethists.

If Christian, Jew, Hindoo or Mohammedan can follow Sant Mat, then why not aethists?

Amar I will stop this conversation with you here. I’ve always been respectful of you regardless of the difference in opinion. But I find the feeling is not mutual so thank you and good luck.

Spence I appreciate your detailed step by step account of all that happened in the Singh brothers saga.
You claim
“The SEBI was still digging deeper, and in conjunction with the investigation of the Serious Crimes Division, determined the recipients of the loans, including Gurinder and family.”
Spence I feel we are going in circles again and again. Here is the last Sebi report

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/mar-2019/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_42418.html

It does not say the recipient of the loans are the Dhillon family.
So your statement is not true.
Moreover you never answered why the shell companies are not part of the garneshee order?
Let me tell you the timeline of events
Master wanted a settlement so that the assists between the 2 families that were joint be clearly divided and the liabilities (most likely to Daichi) be paid but Malvinder refused to sign. Now after his
Complaint that they cannot pay Daichi the garneshee order was issued. Now the settlement will happen and the liabilities will get paid.
Like I said earlier Your are confusing this with the fortis and Religare Sebi reports both of which do not include Master.

Interesting post One initiated

So you think atheists are incapable of love?

One Initiated is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He's only regurgitating what he hears in satsang and what he reads in books. This is the exact same arrogance I was writing about earlier. Follow my guru or you're damned to hell. That's scary stuff, considering GSD himself doesn't say that.

I also disagree with the fact that unless you're following a guru, you're devoid of love. What rubbish is this.

I can tell you that I've seen the inner light and the sounds even before I was initiated, and I continue to see it. It is an inner realization. You're projecting everything at someone outside when you should be focusing everything within. Just staring at him in satsang doesn't do you any good. That's not darshan, that's just creepy.

So save your sermons for the halfwit discussions when you're having tea with other satsangis.

Again, follow what you want, but don't think to project your beliefs and raise damnation against anyone that you don't believe is worthy.

Anon, you're taking this way to personally. I will admit I'm wrong if GSD comes out of this unscathed. But you never will do the same if he's found accountable. That's what this is about.

You won't even acknowledge the possibility.

Guru's and money do not mix. It's printed in all the religious books, and expounded upon by all religious leaders, particularly the RSSB lineage. So, regardless of the outcome, you still need to look at the mindset of someone who puts himself and his entire family in a position such as this. Pick away at the details all you want.

I thought I was very familiar with the goings on at RSSB, but holy macaroni, the names, the details, the accusations by family members, the inside deals. It's like a firefighter arriving at the scene of a reported fire. Sees smoke coming out of a window in a house, realizes it's his own house! But says, no, that can't possibly be it. Has to be another house. Mine can't be on fire.

Where there's this much smoke, you have the obligation to at least investigate and keep an open mind. Open mind.

Anon, as is usually the case, your single-minded focus on defending the RSSB guru for his ill-gotten gains is preventing you from seeing some other viewpoints..

(1) You mentioned the family settlement letter proposed by Gurinder. Reports are that Shivinder agreed to sign the letter absolving the debts the Dhillon family owed to the Singh brothers in exchange for Shivinder essentially buying the position of RSSB guru from Gurinder. Malvinder refused to sign the agreement, which his subsequent criminal complaint says led to him getting a death threat from Gurinder's attorney.

(2) This shows that the Dhillon family had some personal debts with the Singh brothers, some of which could have involved transfers of money into shell companies controlled by the Dhillon family that were not part of the SEBI investigations.

(3) The SEBI investigations involved fraudulent siphoning of money from public companies into other shell companies, some or all of which were controlled at the time by the Dhillon family and their associates. So there appears to be two sources of money for the Dhillon family: directly from the Singh brothers and via siphoning of money from public companies.

(4) The High Court of Delhi order is aimed at recovering money owed by the Singh brothers to Daiichi, since they lost a court case involving the sale of Ranbaxy to Daiichi where the brothers failed to disclose pertinent information about adulterated drugs prior to the sale. So it appears unlikely that the High Court would order the garnishing of assets/loans that came from anywhere else but the Singh brothers. The Singh brothers owe Daiichi; the Dhillon family and others owe to the Singh brothers; so the High Court has ordered garnishing of those debts directly into a Daiichi account.

(5) Separately, as I've written about in several blog posts, the board of Religare and Sheetal Talwar's attorneys have informed SEBI and possibly other Indian authorities that the ultimate beneficiaries of the fraudulent loans that came from the public companies were the Dhillon family. Talwar also alleges that the RSSB guru and his family were part of the financial fraud conspiracy. Religare is seeking the tracing and recovery of those funds.

(6) So as you noted, it appears likely that the fraudulent funds cited in the SEBI reports that went into shell companies, and then to the Dhillon family and their associates, aren't part of the High Court of Delhi order, since those funds were siphoned from public companies, not from the Singh brothers. It's difficult to believe that the High Court would garnish assets of the Dhillon family and other entities that weren't loans or other debts owed to the Singh brothers.

(7) Reports in the Indian financial press indicate that the total amount of money that flowed into the pockets of the Dhillon family from both private (Singh brothers) and public (Fortis/Religare) sources approached a billion dollars. So if $500 million is hoped to be obtained from the High Court order, there could be hundreds of millions more to be recovered by the public companies, assuming the Dhillon family investments in real estate haven't declined markedly in value.

Amar, Anon, Anami.....just three folks with differing views about religion.

I think I saw this movie a few decades ago.....Bachan was great in it!

Manjit, lol... Amar Akbar Anthony. Love that movie. There was the Hindu, the Muslim, the Christian.

I was obsessed with Bachan in the 70's growing up.

Cheers!

Another relevant big B film here is Andha Kanoon Hai. Or at least it will be if nobody gets punished in this nation pr disaster disaster India has been stuck with.

Amar

You are a junior, a greenhorn, still wet behind the ears - you should listen to your seniors when they are dishing out pearls of wisdom.

There is more packed into 1 paragraph of One Initiated’s post then all the hot air passed on this site in the last few weeks.

You are reading the words but don’t understand their meaning.

Hi Anon
Bloomberg News also conducted their own investigation and found that Gurinder and family were loaned hundreds of millions of dollars, including from the sale of Ranbaxy, which they have not repaid...

"Over the years, the brothers’ main holding company loaned about 25 billion rupees ($360 million) to the Dhillon family and property businesses largely controlled by them, according to documents and people familiar with the matter. Some of those outlays were financed with money borrowed from the Singhs’ listed companies, and when combined with other Singh investments gone bad threw their empire into a debt spiral, a Bloomberg News analysis of public records and interviews with 10 people familiar with the finances of both camps showed."


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-16/billionaires-and-the-guru-how-an-indian-family-lost-2-billion

Georgy, with all due respect, most people speaking about religion are spitting pearls out their back side. No one knows anything.

Understanding your self, the real "Self", is the most important thing. Everyone has an opinion, and that's great. It doesn't bother me that anyone calls me names or or anything else for that matter.

I know that I'm open to anything that can change my point of view and willing to change my mind if it makes sense and is truthful. Blabbing crap from a book with zero first hand experience and saying it like you "know" is laughable. That's what I call out. It's not about whether I think I'm right, it's about what it is truthful and honest.

Do I know everything? Not by a long shot. I sure as hell don't need some seniors telling me about things they have no idea about. Self discovery and self exploration. Try it sometime Georgy.

I'm a work in progress, probably to my last breath, but I see you and One have it all figured out.

This is fun!

Amar I did acknowledge the possibility this is why I went through and read every report and Sebi Order myself. But unlike you I have trust in him. Like I said I have spent 25 years of my 45 with him as my guide and I know that he will not cheat, lie or dupe anyone. You clearly don’t see it the same way I do. I will leave this blog now as I understand what one initiated said...your sangat matters a lot and this place isn’t helpful at all. No need to reply to me as I won’t read what you wrote.

Hi Brian Ji
You wrote
"Seemingly by this time the assets, if any, of the shell companies would be known to Indian authorities. If a shell company had no substantial assets or cash, there would no point for the High Court of Delhi to include in the list of entities subject to garnishment so that the Daiichi award could be paid."

That makes perfect sense. They went to the loan recipients, where the money went.

As privately held companies it wood be difficult to uncover their assets without access to bank accounts. The serious crimes division would have it. But whether the shells had zero assetts (all shared the same leather goods booth address Ground Floor, A-Wing, D-3, District Centre, Saket, New Delhi South Delhi DL 110017 IN)
or the investigators simply traced all the money to the loans, the pot of gold ended up in the hands of Gurindar, family and friends.

Although Anon says he (she?) is not coming back, I have more invested in this relationship with RSSB than her/him. I'm close to 50 years and born into an RSSB family.

GSD, his family, the two Singh brothers and Godhwani have cheated and duped shareholders and consequently the healthcare industry in India, directly
or indirectly.

So yes, which sangat you hang with matters. You're more comfortable with denial and that's what the sangat will do.

That doesn't work for me anymore.

Sorry to see you go.

Hi One Initiated
You wrote
"Amar, a failed student, recommending a diligent one to read a book
from an author, Dave, who miserably failed a subject."

One, you will have to go within to understand that these students, including Sadh Guru Brian Ji, have succeeded in their lessons.

And those who claim to love Gurindar are actually torturing him, day after day, year after year, because as long as their arrogance, pride and complacency, in the smug name of love keeps them from accepting painful facts, He must continue the act of the mastermind thief.

The truth is that Baba Ji is who you think He is. But you are not who you think you are.

You are harming him day and night with this arrogance.

"I have spent 25 years of my 45 with him as my guide and I know that he will not cheat, lie or dupe anyone."

If you don't know what the decorations in his bathroom look like and have never been on an hour long drive or more with him, don't say crap like this.

You don't know anything about Gurinder Singh Dhillon that isn't printed by RSSB or what you glean from the 30 seconds you are allowed to observe him from a distance in a crowded satsang.

All the qualities you see in him are your imagination. You'd be better off worshiping me and giving me your money. I'm a true saint.

Perhaps it comes down to this - certain people are just more spiritually gifted than others, and they can spot or sense another human being with those gifts.

Just as the guru knows who should be appointed the next guru. Or the seeker knows that a particular guru is basically god.

Just as you might know, balls-to-the-wall, that a close family member accused of certain things, could never be guilty of those things. Same thing - except this knowing is perhaps an even deeper spiritual knowing, something a less spiritually advanced atheist dullard could never understand.

Perhaps atheists are bottom of the humanity totem pole, not much better than animals. I must be a bit like the other ‘dullard’ atheists on this site, just with a lot more scientific knowledge (sparrow fart entanglement - what kinda fking moron is this?) and logic, and less zeal for a hangin’ and a lynchin’.

Brian Hines Its too bad Anon left he was the only one who made sense in terms of trail of events on this blog. I am reading all your comments and I see how he went through the trail of events while giving a benefit of doubt for all parties involved. Brian your trail of events look all jumbled up. You are quick to lay guilt to false parties.

Dear Georgy,
yes, I was not considering the fashionable and trendy definitions of Aethists.

Dear Spence,
I am amused your last comment didn't contain the word "SEBI"


You will have to go within to understand that these students, including Sadh Guru Brian Ji, have succeeded in their lessons.

Oh, gosh, shortened to "You will have to go within to understand, it
becomes beautiful, Spence. But then the rest of the sentence drifts
off into effusive praise as if an honorary degree is being bestowed.

Do mere Blogger Ji's soar to inner realms and emerge Sadh Ji's if
they succeed in the divine "lessons"?

Kids aren't gonna believe it. It has the distinct whiff of a manipulative
parent (Catholic and Jewish especially) laying guilt trips. "See what a
good boy Benny or Joe is. Why can't you be more like that?"


And those who claim to love Gurindar are actually torturing him, day after day, year after year, because as long as their arrogance, pride and complacency, in the smug name of love keeps them from accepting painful facts, He must continue the act of the mastermind thief.
You are harming him day and night with this arrogance.

"Torturing Gurinder with arrogance, pride, and complaceny"... "harming
him day and night".

OMG, that sounds like Mam or Dad's classic patented guilt trip again.
How many times do poor kids hear a variation of "Don't ya know how it
hurts us when you behave this way!? You will have to be punished and
that hurts us even more. But someday you'll thank us!"

Dunno about others but it'd make me wanna go right on doing it.

The truth is that Baba Ji is who you think He is. But you are not who you think you are.

All of us struggling can agree with that.

Dear Spence, you must try to make sense Spence.

Brian is a very logical guy but of course he will like being called "Sadh Guru Brian Ji".

Not spelling Gurinder's name properly? Not good. This is interesting even though it is strange: "those who claim to love Gurindar are actually torturing him" also: "The truth is that Baba Ji is who you think He is. But you are not who you think you are." hmm ?!

To Georgy Porky,
Dear you judging a lot!
Also about animals, who are low..
This are all creatures made by God.

Spence I can’t take anything you say seriously. You have written about 200 plus blog comments on the man and you still got the name wrong. Perhaps you should start by researching his name?
Sorry but if you can’t get the name right it’s very likely you got the details of the events right. I’ll go with anon.

S
Yes I like a porky.
You saying we should not judge?
Why you not tell that to the judgers?

Vijay, I guess everything becomes null and void if you make a spelling mistake. Sure, that makes sense. Maybe he's talking about a different Gurindar, or is Gurinder?

Come on Vijay, surely you have more to contribute than that.

Hi Jen and Vijay
OK, let me try this again...
Gurinderr
Gurinderr
Gurinderr

To err is human, to AR, divine....
But maybe we ar all divine?

Amar a spelling mistake again and again?
If You want to be taken seriously you need to be accurate in what you write. Are you bugged others actually think Anon is right instead of you or Spence?

Vijay, if spelling is important, so is grammar. Check yours, or we can't take your comments seriously either.

Again, it's not about who's right or wrong, it's about being open to the truth. That's all. Be open to all the possibilites, not just your own.

Im willing to bet that Gurinder has had his name spelled a variety of ways on government documents and maybe spelled it in various ways himself. My wife unwillingly had her name changed by the Indian government a few times. Being Sikh she has the name "Kaur" which some think needs to be spelled "Kour." ਕੌਰ or कौर has no exact equivalent in any western pronunciation I'm aware of.

Im not sure what the standard transliteration is for Punjabi using Roman alphabet, but very few use it. If the standard is the same as it is for normal Hindi, then the proper way to write it would actually be how Spence writes it. His name isn't prnounced Goor ind air.

But this is about Vijay being butthurt that everyone doesn't share in his magical beliefs about his guru. Not about spelling.

Hi Spencerr err,

For a long time now I have wondered if you ever were initiated into the RSSB line of Masters. I know you have been asked before and you said you were initiated by Charan but I still have my doubts. There is something very strange about how you seem quite gleeful when you find something against Gurinder which seems like you are out for revenge. Why?

As a Charan initiate and having met others like myself we may have changed our opinions about the path but we don't behave the way you do, we just move on without any bitterness but you seem to be on some kind of evangelical mission.

This is a more balanced view which you posted on your own website, in your own words:

"As for the good and the bad Gurinder, try to see the facts of the case without reference to personalities. Leave Gurinder out of it for the time being, if that helps you spend more time with the varies articles and evidence of corporate robbery, to see that as it is."
.................................

Now we have a comment on this thread which shows the real Spence:

"Hi I'm Baba Ji... Yah I know, one of those fake Guru's in a turban riding in fancy cars and Jets with big expensive homes all over the world, and for my sons and wife as well. Yah, I may not actually be corrupt, but I'm doing my best to look just like those corrupt other guys. But actually I'm the real thing. I'm just play acting being the mastermind of one of the largest financial frauds in India....'cause if I'm gonna do something, I do it big. So if I gotta pretend to be human, and I gotta pretend I've got human flaws, I'm goin' big on this one..... I'm gonna make all the other truly greedy and larcinous fake Guru's look small time by comparison.... If you gotta play, play it big baby!.. And for all my adoring fans looking for dirt in every corner, I'm Givin 'ya a mountain, baby! More dirt that you can shovel in a lifetime. 
Yah I did it! Wouldn't be a good show if I didn't! If it means something to you, yeah, I did it. And if it doesn't mean anything to you, it never will. Good on you for not wasting your time.
But if you need to feed off shit, I'll give you more than a lifetime's.... If just to keep you occupied and out of trouble... "
.................................

Lost the plot Spence?

As The Great Master mentioned in many discourses:

Those who are in grip of the mind, will always say things, which have never happened and which will never happened, with great force and proving as they just happened.

two things popular on this blog since last quite a few posts which have no basis and are a complete false:

- house arrest of Master and HIS family members.
- freezing of the Master's and their family's bank accounts and assets.

both of these points are plain blank false.

One Initiated, here's an excerpt form the Business Today article:

"Besides the Dhillon family, the Delhi HC is issuing 'garnishee orders' against several Dhillon and RSSB associates' companies, including Prius Real Estate, Addon Realty, Payne Realtors SGGD Projects, Luminous Holding. A garnishee order is an order against a third party to recover money to settle a debt or dues.
Garnishee order prevents these entities from alienating any assets. The dues will now be paid to Delhi HC instead of Singh brothers and their entities to whom it is owed."

Definition of ALIENATION OF ASSETS: Selling assets that are put up for collateral. The alienation clause usually prohibits this. This is where the freezing assets comments are referencing.

As for the house arrest comments, that's jumping the gun. If those found to be owing money have exhausted the repayment assets, then the court may move to put them under house arrest. But I don't think we're there yet on anyone.

If funds are owed, then people can be named a circular letter which limits travel outside of India. That's also a possibility. It;s already been used against Sunil Godhwani.

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