What's next for the RSSB guru and Singh brothers scandal?

The massive financial scandal involving the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas and the Singh brothers, Malvinder and Shivinder, has been likened to a Bollywood movie -- albeit one whose ending hasn't been written yet.

If you browse through the posts in the Radha Soami Satsang Beas category of this blog, focusing on the posts related to this scandal, it'll soon become evident that this subject is complex. There are many actors in this drama, each playing their own unique role.

There's no way to accurately predict what will happen next.

I've summarized the broad scope of the scandal in recent posts, including this one. Because I enjoy legal intrigue, spy novels, and captivating mini-series on TV, I can't resist making some observations about how things could go from here. 

To do this, I need to envision the state of mind of the various parties involved in this scandal. What follows are my own views, obviously. Feel free to share your own perspective in a comment, if you like.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon. The RSSB guru is notoriously private. He hasn't made any meaningful public announcements about this scandal yet. He doesn't like photographs taken of him.

Yet the High Court of Delhi recently ordered that the financial assets of Dhillon and his family be frozen in anticipation of those assets being sold to recover money that ended up in the Dhillon family pockets through either fraudulent or decidedly irregular means.

I'm not familiar with how garnishment works in India.

But since the recovered money is going to help pay for a $500 million settlement that the Singh brothers owe to Daiichi (a Japanese corporation), it sure seems that both the High Court and lawyers for Daiichi are going to want to be sure that the Dhillon family reveal all of their financial assets: cash, homes, real estate holdings, etc.

Since Dhillon is viewed as God in human form by his devotees, this is quite a comedown for a supposed divine being. I've never heard of God being subject to a High Court ruling, but there's a first time for everything.

Singh brothers. They're first cousins once removed of the RSSB guru, but appear to consider him as "uncle." Previously Dhillon was a trusted elder advisor after their father died. Now their relationship with Dhillon is decidedly shaky, especially when it comes to Malvinder.

He's filed a criminal complaint against Dhillon, alleging conspiracy to siphon funds from companies once controlled by the Singh brothers, and also a death threat by the guru through his attorney. Malvinder also alleges that Dhillon tried to essentially sell his position as RSSB guru to Shivinder, if Shivinder forgave the shady loans Dhillon and his family got.

It's unclear what the status of the criminal complaint is, which is being investigated by the Delhi Police. I used to think that Malvinder might withdraw the complaint if Dhillon cooperated in returning his ill-gotten money, which totals hundreds of millions of dollars.

Now that the RSSB guru is being forced to liquidate assets by the High Court of Delhi, my suspicion is that Malvinder won't be willing to play nice with his cousin, even if he calls him uncle. 

Sunil Godhwani. He was the guru's right hand man and head of RSSB finances, to my understanding. Dhillon used his influence with the Singh brothers to get Godwahni installed as CEO of Religare, a company the brothers controlled at the time. In that position Godhwani orchestrated the fraudulent transfers of money to the Dhillon family and their close associates through shell companies controlled by those recipients of the money.

Godhwani was detained at the Delhi airport when he tried to leave the country shortly after he was charged with criminal conspiracy by the Delhi Police.

No one seems to know whether he is cooperating with authorities. If he chooses to talk, perhaps with the hope of getting lesser charges, this could implicate others in the conspiracy, possibly including the RSSB guru and his family. 

Since Godhwani is so close to the guru, he may choose not to say much. Of course, other people in Religare and the shell companies that participated in the fraudulent transactions may come forward who don't have any "spiritual" connection with the guru.

Board of Religare. What complicates things is that the High Court of Delhi has ordered that up to $500 million is to be recovered from over 50 entities, including the Dhillon family, their close associates, and the above-mentioned shell companies. As already noted, that money is earmarked to pay the settlement owed by the Singh brothers to Daiichi. 

But the new board of Religare, which doesn't include anyone associated with the guru or the Singh brothers, is behind the criminal complaint against Godhwani and others. Religare wants to get back the money that was siphoned out of its coffers.

Now, since reports in the Indian financial press indicated that as much as a billion dollars went into the pockets of Dhillon and his family, perhaps liquidation of their assets, along with the assets of others who got fraudulent money, would produce enough to both pay the $500 million to Daiichi and repay funds that Religare considers it has lost (not sure how much that is).

If that isn't possible, seemingly Religare would be more motivated to have those responsible for the fraudulent activity to be legally punished. Which could include the RSSB guru and his family, given that they were directors of the shell companies that participated in the fraudulent loan transactions.

Indian courts and government. It may not be a coincidence that the High Court of Delhi issued its garnishment order against the RSSB guru, his family, and others after the Indian nationwide elections were over. Religion plays a big role in Indian politics, so perhaps this is why the order came when it did.

Regardless, it appears that the Indian government and courts are taking this financial scandal more seriously than some thought it would, given the country's lengthy history of corporate sleaze. After all, India wants to attract more foreign investment.

News that a guru and his family were able to siphon hundreds of millions of dollars out of public companies without facing the consequences wouldn't be a good sales pitch to individuals or corporations thinking of investing in India. Thus I'm quite a bit more confident now that the wrongdoers in this scandal will be identified by authorities and receive whatever consequences they deserve.

Sheetal Talwar. Talwar is an Indian filmmaker who first came to notice in this scandal when he alleged that a death threat was made against him from the RSSB satsang office in Delhi after he tried to recover $1.25 million he'd loaned to Gurinder Singh Dhillon. 

Then Talwar popped up again in the news when he informed the Securities and Exchange Board of India that the guru and his family were the primary beneficiaries of about $329 million siphoned out of Religare via the above-mentioned fraudulent loans.

So Talwar is another actor in this drama, as is befitting his role as a filmmaker.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

Rami Malek as the ambitious and tragic Gurinder, vaulted to international stardom, then fallen by his own poor judgment and overzealous need for speed and fame, to lead an isolated life under house arrest.

[Spence Tepper]

An Indian version of the Godfather and Howard Hughes mixed together

[J]

If we pinpoint what we actually know about Gurinder's wrongdoing, it's this: Gurinder apparently received large amounts of money (though we don't how much actually went into his own personal accounts) from family members (and from one seemingly credible filmmaker, who has the strange story of lending Gurinder over a million dollars for medical bills, even though he's not a satsangi). Gurinder had no health insurance? No family member had the money to pay for Gurinder's medical bills? A guy is convinced to lend a guru with no job a million dollars...how did he expect Gurinder would pay him back? As I say, the filmmaker's story is a strange one to me

By the way,if Gurinder did borrow a million dollars from one guy, it makes me wonder how many other lenders there have been over the years who aren't speaking up. Of course the wondering about the possibilities is endless. Wonder hath assumed a form, and its name is the RSSB Ranbaxy scandal.

But back to my original point about Gurinder apparently accepting large amounts money he didn't earn. You satsangis who doubt Gurinder, are you really convinced that Charan Singh was able to financially support himself and his family for 40 years without family and donor assistance?

It seems to me that RSSB guru finances have been a murky subject long before Gurinder came around.

[Jesse]

J, that medical bill story is something pretty weird, but even moreso considering that the dera had multiple hospitals of its own and the family's main business was a medical company. Not to mention that he probably didn't receive anywhere near $1million in treatment.

Only thing we can hope for is a plot twist where Gurinder used a crap ton of that money to buy a massive nature reserve in Uttarakhand where he'll retire in classic Sadhu fashion. Saffron robes and all and befriend tigers and snakes. Even if he goes to prison that'll likely be the story that develops among the satsang crowd.

In 100 years the great great grandchildren of all these satsangis will find their own guru get caught up in rape charges or whatever and say "even the holy baba gurinder was persecuted! stay strong and believe!"

[Jesse]

Sorry to comment so much, but if I remember correctly, some of the shell companies had addresses of one apartment in Delhi. If Gurinder owned these companies and as some say was unaware of all the transactions, did he also not know that his own companies were just apartment addresses and did no real business?

Some of the excuse makers seem to think this guy was totally ignorant of everything and just showed up to sign papers as directed by anyone standing in front of him with a contract. It's impossible for me to believe that he was so inept and aloof about everything happening around him, especially given that satangis often brag that he's so detail oriented ( aka OCD micromanager) that he gets involved in the selection of doorknobs in satsang halls he likely spends less than 3 hours in every year.

You'll never get me to believe that this obsessive doorknob selector just randomly happened upon and purchased or started a business that didn't actually exist outside of an email address and an apartment address, and $100million dollars pass through the fake business without his consent. He either would have had to sign off on a lot of contracts and transactions, or even if they were forgeries, the sums are far too large for him to have never once received any information on them. I get personal calls when there's a suspicious purchase of $100 or more on any of my accounts. Hundreds of millions don't accidentally get wired around and into property purchases in your name. You have to be crazy to believe that.

[J]

Your guru us also a fraud Spence

[anami]

I think Baba Ji might've just fallen into the trap of leaving everything to Sunny G, who was in it way over his head and made wilder and wilder moves to cover his own incompetence. Picture yourself as spiritual and temporaral head of RSSB, how much time and energy would you have left over to mastermind such a complex web of deceit?

Okay, everyone, now jump down my throat!

[Tim Rimmer]

That seems a pretty good summary of the facts Brian.
What I still can’t fathom is that in spite of this, lots of RSSB folk appear to either not believe it or remain ignorant of it.
I have long time dear satsangi friends who seem to just choose to stay blissfully ignorant.
I guess they just can’t go there.
As several posters have said - it potentially could mean a polar flip for their worldview/belief.
Fascinating to see what’s next - I read somewhere that the filmmaker hinted he might make a ‘series’ about it - how politics, money and Guruism are now much more intertwined.
I still have some sadness about the whole thing.

[Jesse]

"I think Baba Ji might've just fallen into the trap of leaving everything to Sunny G"

To repeat myself for the 1000th time, it's possible you're right, but that level of negligence is so absurd that it may as well be criminal.

And how much time did Gurinder actually devote to RSSB? I know when he comes to USA he often is here for many days yet does precisely one satsang for like 45 minutes that people spend hundreds of dollars to attend, often using his personal friend's travel agency to book their tickets.

Seems the souls he's responsible for are 3rd or 4th on his list of priorities.

[Prashant]

1. Mr.Dhillon has every right to do legal business. Being the head of RSSB does not imply he cannot work or do legal business.
2. The plethora of information confirms that the transactions were legal and the amounts used to purchase properties and other investments. Is this not legal.
3. The fund flow which was legal was identified by the court and thus the garnished act was invoked.

Why and what is this hoopala about?

[s*]

Yes Tim ,it is indeed very sad for so many people..
also..
Everything has a reason..

[Prashant]

It does not take any investigation effort to establish
1. The court invoked the garnishee Act as the trail was legal and there was no opposition to it so why should anyone mention ignorance.
2. RSSB funds were never influenced in personal legal acts...what is the reason for the mud slinging.
3. The entities have only one contention Malvinderji wants the money lent to pay his dues and the same seems invested in properties thus there seems to be a delay in repayment where in we have no clue to what was the original tenure of the loan.

[Turan]

Tim:- "What I still can’t fathom is that in spite of this, lots of RSSB folk appear to either not believe it or remain ignorant of it."

Yes, such avoidance is an interesting phenomenon (cognitive dissonance?) I posted on the subject of how we stick to our beliefs even when shown to be false on Brian's post re someone called Kaur who wished Brian dead! It's all about protecting and maintaining the contents of our minds, our beliefs and opinions. Science/psychology is well aware of this self-defending process - but we all seem to avoid the issue. We seem to get a lot of pleasure from throwing our opinions about rather than checking out why/how our own minds (ego's?) get stuck in the opinion/ belief mode.

I re-post the last paragraph below - the only way I can see of living with our divisive minds.

'I don't think any of our opinions are true or matter – they are all impermanent; they change, die and wither in time. Perhaps all we can do is to accept that they are simply exercises in maintaining our particular minds' contents at this moment and see them as insights into how our minds, how our thoughts deceive us into believing its ad hoc contents to be true or reflect reality'.

[anami]

Here's something. Anybody ever see this? Sunny G playing the victim and crying conspiracy against him! Never a good sign...
https://m.economictimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/former-religare-chief-sunil-godhwani-alleges-conspiracy-of-current-management-erstwhile-promoters/articleshow/68941249.cms

[Spence Tepper]

Prashant
You wrote
"the trail was legal"
Where did you read that?
The Securities and Exchange Board of India states the loans were fraudulent and the shell companies that siphoned this money to Gurinder, family and Satsangi followers all participated in the fraud...

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2018/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_40755.html

The Religare EOW to the Delhi police state the money laundering was fraudulent and the recipients both knew and participated.

That includes Gurinder, his wife, his sins, some of his initiates, and some of his Satsangi associates all pledged to obey his every word.

You wrote
"RSSB funds were never influenced in personal legal acts."

Please share your evidence for this claim.

In the original article posted on the RSSB website it says Godwani was in charge of investing RSSB funds.

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

Gurindar sold an RSSB charitable hospital, and all its acreage, to himself, into his private equity company, RHC, run by his son.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/views/the-devotion-of-the-singh-brothers-of-fortis-runs-deep-into-their-businesses-63575.htm

And in this legal document, where a construction company is suing RSSB and Fortis, we learn that a new 200 bed RSSB hospital originally contracted by RSSB, ie, RSSB money, was then transferred into Fortis' corporate hands.

https://indiankanoon.org/doc/87320658/

And we read of the myriad companies Gurindar has placed family members, including his wife, into principle roles, siphoning illegal loans from Fortis into these through the Singhs.

Here's some additional links to some of the stories in the business press:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-08-16/billionaires-and-the-guru-how-an-indian-family-lost-2-billion

https://www.businesstoday.in/magazine/the-hub/the-baba-singh-brothers-and-the-squandered-rs-225000000000/story/281437.html

[Dhruv chopra]

I hope this scandal will open eyes of all "INDIAN RELIGIOUS FOOLS" Who blindly believes on these criminals as their GOD...
And these 'CRIMINAL GODS' use these people to fill their own pockets...
Really SHAME on INDIANS!!!

[Amar]

Prashant, you wrote: "Mr. Dhillon has every right to do legal business. Being the head of RSSB does not imply he cannot work or do legal business."

You used the word legal twice. If it was legal, why is the High Court forcing GSD and his family members, along with other RSSB sevadars to pay back someone else's debt? Wow, I see that the court has determined that the funds were not rec'd LEGALLY. So that makes it ILLEGAL. Please add that to your vocabulary and use it next time.

Almost every comment attempting to come to the GSD's defense completely ignores the fact that the Court has frozen his assets and ordered him and his family to repay the debts. The courts are not stupid. They know that most of his assets are in the names of his wife, boys and daughter in law. So the court froze their assets also.

Next time you respond, please have an explanation to the court order. But I guess you have an excuse for that also.

[PJ2000]

I have a feeling that Mr. Godhwani is the mastermind. He has been shunned away from sangat.

[vivek]

Biology trumps Theology.

http://www.integralworld.net/lane162.html

[Dungeness]

Rami Malek as the ambitious and tragic Gurinder, vaulted to international stardom, then fallen by his own poor judgment and overzealous need for speed and fame, to lead an isolated life under house arrest.

Hey, Church-ers could get bit roles as overzealous tabloid reporters.
RSSB fundamentalists, angry ex-er's, and, of course, our usual run of
Blog crazies. Extras could audition for courtroom scenes screaming
"Hang him!" while others tear their shirts and weep "Baba Ji, we love
you no matter what you did".

[Anil Chaudhari]

Jesse really cried, please avoid Spiritual jealousy brian and tupper ji. In USA also you are after Deepak Chopra. Do you believe in Lord Shiva?

[Amar]

Dungeness: Nailed it!

[Dungeness]

Almost every comment attempting to come to the GSD's defense completely ignores the fact that the Court has frozen his assets and ordered him and his family to repay the debts. The courts are not stupid. They know that most of his assets are in the names of his wife, boys and daughter in law. So the court froze their assets also.

No, I think courts froze their assets because they're legally entangled as
directors of the shell companies receiving the loans. Otherwise, they'd
have to produce a paper trial of loan money transfers among family.

[Amar]

Dungeness, I think we're both right. Again, will have to wait and see what transpires. There is legal recourse and you never know, GSD or his son might file an appeal.

Have to wait and see...

[anami]

I'll give you all that, Jesse. Criminal negligence. Good point. If I were on the grand jury, I'd be hard pressed not to vote for indictment. As for the rest, I've always chafed at the idea of traveling to Fayetteville and found it odd that there was a list of "approved" lodgings, suspicious of unspoken business ties. I don't know Baba Ji's personality the way you and others here do. I was not his initiate and only saw him twice early on. Sooner or later the true teachings degenerate into mere religion--that's Sant Mat 101--so I accept the possibility, though I never expected to see it in my lifetime. Are there true teachings to begin with? Hot potato there.

[Spence Tepper]

"Hi I'm Baba Ji... Yah I know, one of those fake Guru's in a turban riding in fancy cars and Jets with big expensive homes all over the world, and for my sons and wife as well. Yah, I may not actually be corrupt, but I'm doing my best to look just like those corrupt other guys. But actually I'm the real thing. I'm just play acting being the mastermind of one of the largest financial frauds in India....'cause if I'm gonna do something, I do it big. So if I gotta pretend to be human, and I gotta pretend I've got human flaws, I'm goin' big on this one..... I'm gonna make all the other truly greedy and larcinous fake Guru's look small time by comparison.... If you gotta play, play it big baby!.. And for all my adoring fans looking for dirt in every corner, I'm Givin 'ya a mountain, baby! More dirt that you can shovel in a lifetime.
Yah I did it! Wouldn't be a good show if I didn't! If it means something to you, yeah, I did it. And if it doesn't mean anything to you, it never will. Good on you for not wasting your time.

But if you need to feed off shit, I'll give you more than a lifetime's.... If just to keep you occupied and out of trouble... "

[Anon]

Amar and dungerees take note that this decision from
The HC is based on the complaint filed by Malvinder where he claimed that the following people owed him money and that he can only pay Daichi if they pay him back.
It’s a direct ruling of this claim
https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/sc-take-note-singh-brothers-can-pay-off-usd-500-million-to-daiichi-provided-the-money-is-recovered/1/326995.html

I’m not sure if forensic investigation actually went into figuring out if these 56 entities really do owe him money as he claims. I’m inclined to think it hasn’t happened yet and each entity will either have to pay or show that they have already paid. If you look through the actual court documents you will notice that one entity was removed at the hearing when it was proven money was transferred in 2017 to Malvinder.

Also I find it interesting that some name of the entity is misspelled exactly the same way it was in Malvinder’s complaint. Makes me wonder was this a case of copy and paste.

So the next point I’m trying to make is that this is not part of the Sebi findings of fraud this is merely the money disbursed from the sale of Ranbaxy. Which is NOT ILLEGAL
So please no need to run to any conclusions on the Master or his family as Brian very happily does.

[Jesse]

Dhruv Chopra gets it. Worshipping random famous and CHARISMATIC men makes everyone involved look bad and tarnishes the Indian national image.

It's that simple.

[Anon]

Spence you wrote

The Securities and Exchange Board of India states the loans were fraudulent and the shell companies that siphoned this money to Gurinder, family and Satsangi followers all participated in the fraud...

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2018/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_40755.html

Please tell where In this Sebi report is your claim that Master participated In this written or proven?

Awaiting your reply then we can discuss the next issue.

[Amar]

Anon, what part of this do you not understand? The shell companies were in GSD, his wife, his sons and daughter in laws' names. As well as senior sevadars close to GSD.

The companies listed are all controlled by RSSB people, including GSD and/or his family.

At the end of the day, it culminates in the HC ruling that GSD and his family have had their assets frozen and forced to pay the high court directly. Other RSSB high ranking "sevadars" were also named. Including Sunil Godhwani, GSD's close friend and right hand financial goto guy.

All the stuff Brian and Spencer have been commenting on, right up to these court rulings, follow a logical path through the Indian justice and Regulators system.

You still haven't commented on what your response is to the assets being frozen. If it was legal, then why freeze assets? If it was legal, why wait for a High Court to force you to pay?

We're supposed to live by an honesty code and not cheat on our taxes and all that stuff. It applies to EVERYONE.

Jaimal Singh refused to take a newspaper delivered to him because he thought it may be someone else's. Here we have a guru who doesnt pay back his debts. Not thousands, but MILLIONS.

Your response please. End result is as I've stated and is documented in the courts. What is your response?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon :

You asked
"Please tell where In this Sebi report is your claim that Master participated In this written or proven?"

The claim is in the Religare EOW. Their audits proved the recipients of the fraudulent loans participated in the fraud.

The SEBI report indicates only that the shell companies participated in the Fraud. They were all set up by Satsangi leaders and had RSSB members on their boards. But most of the loans went to Gurinder, his wife and sons.

You may also read about Gurinder's holdings impounded on the RSSB website article here

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

Additional unpaid loans were procured for Gurinder fraudulently from Fortis healthcare, crippling that company. Those were audited by the SEBI.

The SEBI concluded this was fraud.

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2018/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_40755.html

And this is why the Singh brothers and these shell companies, including RHC holdings, where Gurinder was the largest share holder at the time, together have been ordered under penalty to repay the loans.

They were given ninety days to do so and that period has passed.

Now the Crimes division is building a much larger case. And so the high Court of India's decision to lay responsibility directly on many of the loan recipients has a depth of analysis and precedent legal judgment from the SEBI, the Religare audits, and the ongoing investigation from the Series Crimes Division of the Delhi police.

So who received these moneies as 'loans' gained through deceit and fraud, who also never repaid ?

Gurinder's family and associated RSSB leaders.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

Now, let's do a little addition, shall we?

From the above...
207 crore to Dhillon family (sons Gurkirat and Gurpreet)
287 crore to both Godhwani and the Dhillon family (Godhwani, Dhillon's chosen leader to help the Singhs, and his own family),
223 crore to the Dhillon family
152 crore to the Dhillon family
Total.... Hold on let me get out my HP 12C calculator.....

869 crore... Before interest...

So.. This is a long way to say, "Dude, pay da man!"

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
Just to tie the SEBI audit to the Daiichi money, the Singhs used that to invest in Optionally Convertable Debentures... A kind of loan with interest in the form of an investment.

"Besides, his suit against Baba Gurinder Dhillon, Shivinder and Sunil Godhwani and others before the Economic Offences Wing, Malvinder has claimed that loans worth Rs 1006.3 crore have been given directly to Gurinder Singh Dhillon and family members through their entities Modland Wears, Devera Developers, Fern Healthcare and Best Healthcare, besides Adept Lifespaces and Rosestar Marketing."

https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/sc-take-note-singh-brothers-can-pay-off-usd-500-million-to-daiichi-provided-the-money-is-recovered/1/326995.html

Please note that the SEBI specifically audited the Fortis loans to Modland Wears, Fern Healthcare and Best Healthcare and passed legal judgment that these three specifically engaged in fraud.

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2018/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_40755.html

[Dungeness]

207 crore to Dhillon family (sons Gurkirat and Gurpreet)
287 crore to both Godhwani and the Dhillon family (Godhwani, Dhillon's chosen leader to help the Singhs, and his own family),
223 crore to the Dhillon family
...
So.. This is a long way to say, "Dude, pay da man!"

I think you mean:

"Dudes, Dudettes... pay da man.
Big Daddy can't do it all fer ya".

[Spence Tepper]

Having said all this, nothing can replace the sublimity of Shabd practice....

But one piece of music reminds me... Both the subtlety and the drama of that journey....

What is within, who can really explain it in words? And no one will ever be able to boil it down into a teaching, or even a practice, an organization or a commodity, though these human efforts reflect something of the truth of those regions. Yet perhaps one musician captured something of it as well, that first gentle slip into the opening of the second region upon that divine strain.

https://youtu.be/bTYUyDjVCRU

[Spence Tepper]

And there have been visual artists who have also to their best ability tried to depict that experience, at least to the degree they understand it.

Douglas Trumbull does a great job depicting the process through visual effects..
This is from Brainstorm and is in two parts.... First death and then transcendence... These visuals are very much what is experienced when Shabd pulls us up, and which meditation tries to trigger.

https://youtu.be/uFQrd2Y9R04

And the journey (at least to the third region..)

https://youtu.be/kcSUcvSthLo

But what is actually going on? Could just be physiological. But I can witness that if looks very much like this. These must be natural built in places in the human mind.

[Anon]

Amar you wrote
“Anon, what part of this do you not understand? The shell companies were in GSD, his wife, his sons and daughter in laws' names. As well as senior sevadars close to GSD.”

Have you read the Sebi report? It is a 21 page report detailing how 11 companies moved money and all of these companies are owned by Malvinder and Shivinder. And how the money eventually ended up in the accounts of the promoters. Malvinder and Shivinder No where does it mention Master. Please read it.

“The companies listed are all controlled by RSSB people, including GSD and/or his family.“
No they were controlled by Shivinder and Malvinder it clearly says in the entire Sebi report. If you see anywhere in the report the name of Master you can copy and paste it here for us to see.

“At the end of the day, it culminates in the HC ruling that GSD and his family have had their assets frozen and forced to pay the high court directly.”

The have a garneshee order against them as Malvinder claimed that they owe him money and the only way he can pay Daichi is if he gets the money from them. We all know that the money from the sale of Ranbaxy was invested into property jointly by the group. Yes Masters name was part of the group investing in property, but that is completely legal business. Anything illegal in investing in properties?

“You still haven't commented on what your response is to the assets being frozen. If it was legal, then why freeze assets? If it was legal, why wait for a High Court to force you to pay?”

I did respond on the other thread to you but will do so again. Amar it’s a garneshee order which means this

Quoted from google
A garnishee order is a common form of enforcing a judgment debt against a creditor to recover money. Put simply, the court directs a third party that owes money to the judgement debtor to instead pay the judgment creditor.

And it’s having a garneshee order against you doesn’t mean you have done anything illegal.

“We're supposed to live by an honesty code and not cheat on our taxes and all that stuff. It applies to EVERYONE.”

Your right it applies to everyone and I can’t defend all initiates. Just like I can’t defend all people. It’s very sad to know what Malvinder, Shivinder and sunny did.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, you are acting more and more like a RSSB troll, not someone who sincerely wants to understand what is going on with the financial scandal.

If you had bothered to read my many blog posts on this subject, you'd know that the Dhillon family and their associates were directors of the shell companies that cooperated in the financial fraud described in the SEBI report.

Here's one recent post you need to read:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/06/rssb-guru-identified-as-beneficiary-of-fraudulent-funds.html

Sheetal Talwar, the filmmaker, and his attorneys describe the involvement of the Dhillon family. Here's excerpts from a Business Today story:
--------------------
Talwar has told Sebi that even though its Religare investigation via forensic audit firm MSA concluded fund diversion and large scale irregularities and illegalities, the probe did not lift the corporate veil to disclose the ultimate beneficiaries of the diversion.

Advocates & Solicitors Kartikeya & Associates-representing Talwar-have submitted to Sebi on 29 May, 2019 that, "...the persons who have benefitted the most and/or on whose instance the said illegalities and irregularities were and/or have been committed have yet not been identified. Please note that the persons and/or the shadow promoters of REL, RFL and their other group companies is one Gurinder Singh Dhillon (GSD/Babaji) and his family".

Sebi's original investigation against alleged fund diversion at Religare Enterprises & Religare Finvest was triggered by Talwar's primary complaint to RBI (later forwarded to Sebi) dated 12 April, 2017. In his complaint, Talwar had informed RBI about alleged "irregularities and illegalities committed by the promoters and/or board of directors" of the two companies. RBI forwarded the complaint to Sebi which ordered the probe via MSA.

Talwar's complaint to Sebi has also levelled a grave charge of a serious conflict of interest among Religare's then board members. "...the fact that the companies shared common directors to the GSD family as well as were all run by GSD followers eg. Just a quick review would point to the fact that during the diversion of funds, Vitoba, Platinum and Devera entities to which fund were diverted would reveal that Yuvraj Narain Gorwaney alias Mithu is on the board of these companies-not only is Yuvraj...the secretary of RSSB, he also sits on the board of Logos Holding along with GSD and Shabnam Dhillon. Many such associations exist between the entities named and GSD family."

[Harbhajan Johal]

Hello everyone, please rsfer history of Islam, Christianity, hiduism, Sikhism then you will find negative people had played fowl games against then holy Masters.
Now, surprisingly there are some negative people who are currently playing F O W L games against our Master Baba ji RSSB
Our Master is complete master ......
All will be fine in the end and T R U T H will float on the surface in the end. Time will tell ....TRUTH........Radha Soami ji

[Anon]

Brian you wrote
“Anon, you are acting more and more like a RSSB troll, not someone who sincerely wants to understand what is going on with the financial scandal.”

It bothers you that I actually read all the Sebi reports and the criminal allegations instead of your blog posts. No where has Sebi said that Master was the recipient of these loans. Show me that line from Sebi that you keep claiming they have concluded in their investigation. You can copy and paste it here.
I will not go by what a filmmaker who spent 5 years in court fighting Sood is accusing or claiming. He has been in court most of his life it’s what he likes to do. So don’t tell me what Talwar says. I’m sorry I’m not interested.

[Anon]

Spence you wrote
Just to tie the SEBI audit to the Daiichi money, the Singhs used that to invest in Optionally Convertable Debentures... A kind of loan with interest in the form of an investment.

"Besides, his suit against Baba Gurinder Dhillon, Shivinder and Sunil Godhwani and others before the Economic Offences Wing, Malvinder has claimed that loans worth Rs 1006.3 crore have been given directly to Gurinder Singh Dhillon and family members through their entities Modland Wears, Devera Developers, Fern Healthcare and Best Healthcare, besides Adept Lifespaces and Rosestar Marketing."

Spence firstly this is a CLAIM by Malvinder. Nothing has been proven. Secondly the money he claims to have loaned to Master and his family took place in 2012. You can see all the ledger entries from his reports.
The Sebi findings of money moving from fortis to The 3 companies(best,modland and fern) and eventually into the hands of Malvinder and shivinder happened in 2013-2014
Here’s a quote from the Sebi report that shows that
“b)These loans were given in the beginning ofeach quarter and returned by the companies by the end of the quarter and thereby never reported in the balance sheet as the outstanding amount at the end of the quarter was NIL. This has been happening from the FY 2013-14 onwards.

So there you go Spence the loan that was given to Master and his family was from the sale of Daichi. Last I checked it is completely legal to take a loan for your business.

[Anon]

Spence none of what you say in your message tell me where Master is involved in the reports of Sebi. You just keep pointing to things that you conclude without looking into it properly.

You claim
“And this is why the Singh brothers and these shell companies, including RHC holdings, where Gurinder was the largest share holder at the time, together have been ordered under penalty to repay the loans.”

And that’s not even true as RHC was and is fully controlled by the Singh brothers. This is what online corporation papers say: I will cut and paste for you

“Directors of Rhc Holding Private Limited are Shivinder Mohan Singh, Malvinder Mohan Singh,”

[Amar]

Spencer and Brian. You can spell it out till you're blue in the face, he ain't gonna get it. He's looking through RSSB glasses. Like I said in a previous post, even If GSD personally admits it publically, people like this Anon won't believe it, they'll turn it into something else.

A garnishee order is not something trivial. It is a serious event, especially if they've frozen your assets, as is the case here. The court even states that it is to be further investigated or left open as to why this has come to a garnishee event, when the monies could have been dispersed earlier.

At any rate, believe it or don't believe it, I could care less Anon. More will come to pass and more info into these transgressions will come to light. Eventually, something will hopefully click in that brain of yours and you'll start seeing this for what it really is.

For me, it is the fact that all this mess is going on with GSD wrapped and intertwined in it. He should not even be associated with a rumor about this, let alone a court order freezing his and his family's assets.

Good luck in your journey to coming to understand and making sense of this.

[kunal Arora]

Dont u guys have any other work apart from this blogging work? The entire day u spent in those things. Go and do some work, ur family is hungry and they need u.
Do some meditation and relax ur self otherwise u will be mad one day.

[Amar]

Ankn, you wrote "“b)These loans were given in the beginning ofeach quarter and returned by the companies by the end of the quarter and thereby never reported in the balance sheet as the outstanding amount at the end of the quarter was NIL. This has been happening from the FY 2013-14 onwards"

Then you wrote "So there you go Spence the loan that was given to Master and his family was from the sale of Daichi. Last I checked it is completely legal to take a loan for your business."

You fail realize that SEBI is referring to the fact that the payments were made to appear to be repaid, when in actuality, they were not. These are called circular payments. Where a payment is made and then returned within a certain timeline to satisfy record keeping but in actuality, there is no payment made.

Like I said before. Dig deeper into the reports. They required forensic auditors to dig this up and is simplified for us lay people.

Again, I don't give shit if if you believe it or not, but as Brian stated earlier, read the archive blogs. They will help you understand what happened, if that is truly what you are trying to do.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
You wrote
"No they were controlled by Shivinder and Malvinder it clearly says in the entire Sebi report."

I'm sorry Anon but you are wrong here. Please read page 1 and page 20 of the SEBI report.

This is why not only Malvinder and Shivinder but the additional shell companies were also ordered to repay the money sent to them. That is because they were run at the time by other Satsangis, not just Malvinder and Shivinder. These included Modland Wears, Fern Healthcare and Best Healthcare. And also ordered to repay were RHC holding and Religare Finvest where Baba Ji and his wife respectively were major owners and recipients of the fraudulent loans. Note these shell companies are also part of the High Court's garnishment orders in the Daiichi case.

The SEBI audit mentions these shell companies, demonstrates how they colluded in the fraud, and orders repayment from them in addition to Malvinder and Shivinder precisely because they were not under the ownership of Shivinder or Malvinder.

Yet they colluded with Malvinder and Shivinder and so were promoter related, but not run nor owned by them.

And because monies didn't just flow back to the Singhs but to others.

The shell companies siphoned monies to Gurinder, his wife and sons. That part isn't in the SEBI report, it's here from Business Today

https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/sc-take-note-singh-brothers-can-pay-off-usd-500-million-to-daiichi-provided-the-money-is-recovered/1/326995.html

The SEBI ordered repayment and gave 90 days but the loans weren't repaid.

Gurinder's name only shows up in the order by the high court of India this week. They have already assessed guilt legally and ordered those individuals, including Gurinder, his wife and sons by name to pay to the court what is fully owed. And that is in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

They high court of India has further frozen their assets until. Payment is made because they are delinquent in paying back the loans to them.

Personally, I don't mind repeating information over and over again when people ignore all the facts. I get it. This is real, and painful.

It's OK, Anon.

[Anon]

Amar I am not looking at it through any glasses. I’m just not as quick to judge as you are. I have read pages and pages of reports on this matter.
Thank you for your good wishes and Good luck on your journey too. 😊

[Jesse]

"No where has Sebi said that Master was the recipient of these loans. "

They don't refer to him or his companies as "master" which may be the point at which you get confused. Nobody outside of the cult calls him "master."

[Jesse]

"It’s very sad to know what Malvinder, Shivinder and sunny did."

Funny how Anon accepts as truth the claims made against his "master's" cousins, or nephews or whatever hell they are, but doesn't do the same for "master" Gurinder.

Not that you could ever expect an honest unbiased perspective from someone who calls anyone on earth "master." That's so weird. I think even when I was a satsangi I just called him Baba Ji which is way more chill and not psychotically cultish and demented.

The evidence required to convict the two rat looking dudes is lower because they weren't "masters" quite yet. Had their business plans gone through and Gurinder had tied a turban on them during a photo shoot, they too would be immune from crimes having now become spiritual masters by virtue of Modland Wears shares.

Anon is a free online case study in cultology. He's somewhere between a normal religious person, and someone who would murder children in the name of god.

[Meditator]

Catch me if you can inside or outside.

Thats the challenge thrown by Him and we are struggling to nail Him if not inside than outside.

Good that we are discussing Him. He was booked by the esteemed lineage of RSSB saints to become owner of legacy of Love next to Them and we are bound by their trust to trust His spiritual aptitude and sincerity to carry forward their task genuinely and straight on the target than deviate.

We, at least on this blog feel He seems to have fallen for monies and earthly objects and though the path may be real but the Driver may have missed the track midway.

Think that Mr Spencer's take about Him to be a pretending Master is the correct interpretation but we are too small to measure His extant, surely I am not hinting His body that He resides in as of now but His inner subtle self which may be actual- the One in all. I believe.

He puts us in circles to rotate around Him, remember Him always whichever way possible as friend or foe. Still we tend to glue more towards our enemy than friends and thats an additional advantage. Pray that He cares and that is important for us - to our real self inside of us ultimately which is just helpless!

Let the discussions sustain further to drag the ttruth if any residing in the Truth which He perhaps expects of us.

[Ramandeep Kaur]

Listen, I'm not a radha soami believer yet and I actually went at the main centre of rssb in beas with my cousin for this reason only to know what exactly it is that why you content writers are posting such article. I'm from sikh religion. According to my knowledge I haven't seen any such fake or fraud rituals or things or any believes at that place. Not even a single mob,headset,cameras and all permitted inside the dera.And gurinder singh is not interested in any politics and also not involved in any case of malvinder and shavinder.The Singh brothers they only frauded the rssb guru.The guru is the uncle of Singh brothers.The Singh brothers have done some fraud things against the guru so the guru decided to remove them from the radha soami sanstha and for revenge the singh brothers are fileing fake reports and complaints against guru.belive me I was very curious to know about radha soami so I started doing search.I went in dera's library there I've studied about the entire start point of rssb. I have also readed the spiritual books.The guru never sad anyone to come at his place nor he sad anyone of his followers to do the vote for any political person. He is just a spiritual master.He never sad anyone to post any photo or audio or videos of him.He is far different From others.He is very kind and well educated person.There are some satsangi's who post everything on social media for their benefit. Because of some fullish and fake satsangi people we cannot judge the guru.My entire motive to comment on this is just stop spreading negativity and stop judging him. My message for the writer of this article is..sir,first go and see if you want to know more about rssb. First do complete research don't just listen to anyone and write your articles.Stop wasting your time in spreading rumors against the Guru. If you truly want to know about him, why not you go and meet him.You are a writer and a writer always write true things,if you are writing this article just because of money and fame or if you feel that this topic is really interesting then you should first need to do a proper research regarding this. I think you should take a nap and that start your research again regarding this From yourself without listening to any rumor. I'm not a follower but according to the religious granths a human needs a guru to explain how to meet the god and also to know true path of ruhaniyat.so he is just a spiritual Master of his followers. I think you should also go there and just listen him or else you can even meet him. Please Use your talent to spread positivity. Don't judge anyone without walking under in someone's shoe.

[Anon]

Spence you wrote
“I'm sorry Anon but you are wrong here. Please read page 1 and page 20 of the SEBI report.“
I have read it 10 times

“
These included Modland Wears, Fern Healthcare and Best Healthcare. And also ordered to repay were RHC holding and Religare Finvest“
These are companies always owned and operated by the brothers. None of these 5 companies are part of the 56 entities the high court has sent a garneshee order to. Why??? because they are all operated by the brothers. They are not separate from them.
Do you want me to copy and paste the 56 entities for You?

Ok I’m done I don’t think you will get it as you are bent on confusing LEGAL loans taken by the Dhillon family with the money obtained by the brothers Fraudulently.

[Mr. Curious]

Ramandeep, the author of this article DOES know Gurinder and RSSB. He was a believer for 35 years and, at one time, provided physical security for Gurinder.

[Jesse]

Ramandeep Kaur, that was the most insane comment I've ever read in my life. You're like a 3 year old when he gets caught with chocolate all over his hands and telling his mom he didn't steal any chocolate.

Your lies are so bad and obvious. Stop now and go away from the internet forever.

[Jesse]

Anon, the radha soami belief system is ridiculous anyway so who cares at all about any of this crap, but let me say to you what I've continually said to others.

Even if Gurinder is technically innocent (which he's not) and it comes out that every single accusation against him is wrong, he's still not a saint or a sant sat guru according to his own cult's rules. He can't be.

So go on looking through the court orders and seeking ways for him to look innocent in a court, but he's still a religious fraud and you worship him. No matter how you slice it, you're screwed. This is like Pascal's Web now and you're caught in it. No way out. Whatever you believe is a straight shot to hell.

[Amar]

Not one, not even one person has provided a credible response to the fact that GSD and his family's assets have been frozen and ordered to repay money back to the High Court.

Anon keeps talking about the same thing over and over again.
Gurinder Singh Dhillon has been found to be in default of these loans along with his family and other high ranking sevadars, who are/were also in various director roles in the shell companies named.

Doesn't matter what you dig up in reports, they all have culminated in this Garnishee order. Now they're all screwed because their assets are frozen, and they will start selling off their assets once the liquid funds have been dealt with.

Anyone?

Anyone got the balls to reply as to how they feel now that Gurinder Singh Dhillon and his family have been named and isolated in a court of law?

[Anon]

Amar what do you want to hear? I think you want to hear that you are right. Nobody is replying this to you because they don’t think you are. But good news for you the 3 people who run this blog (Brian,Spence,Jesse) will tell you anything you want to hear against the Master without hesitation. They are the only clear thinkers everyone else has those glasses you speak of. Happy now???

[Georgy ‘bumchum’ Porgy]

Anon and Dungeness are yet again the only sensible ones - the others seem like a bunch of old farts gone rabid and foaming at the mouth shrieking hang-em high.

Anon - you are quite right, and nope they will never get it. It’s impossible, they are so hell-bent on assigning personal guilt to the guru that they cannot but misinterpret and distort the situation.

The difference between Anon and the CoC bumchums is that Anon is doing what none of the bumchums are doing, she is actually READING through the court proceedings. Instead of jumping to conclusions.

Still a long way to go yet - this is fundamentally a corporate dispute - which has hijacked for sensationalist propaganda purposes.

[Jesse]

Anon, I not only don't run this blog, but I have nothing to do with it outside of being its most hated commenter. There's no reason for you to think I run the blog at all.

Your Baba is a thief and you've got your head up your own ass or in the sand.

Wake up to the obvious involvement of Gurinder in fraudulent loans. He's going to jail and satsangis will riot.

[Amar]

Thanks for the answer I expected Anon. The answer you didn't give!

It's not about me being right, or Spence or Brian. It's whether the courts have it right. Based on the submitted info, the audits and paper trail, the courts have determined that these individuals need to be held accountable. That's it.

You can't accept this. And, you've demonstrated this in your responses. Whether you believe it or not based on the rule of law, that's your denial speaking, and your faith in the guru.

If you still choose to believe and have faith in him, that's your choice. But look at Rahim. He's in jail and people are still following him as their guru. Again, their choice.
But does this follow the tradition of the saints and mystics which RSSB holds in high regard?

Just asking how you feel about this. Denying it doesn't help. You have to come to terms with it.

If, at the end of the day, you still have faith and decide to continue on. That is for you and the faith you have. No problem. But to say all of this is nonsense and made up is not true. That's the issue here.

No ill will towards anyone. Just look at what has happened last week and acknowledge it and make a choice. You are the one who has to justify for yourself that this guru still holds true for you. No need to convince me or anyone else.

Rab rakha. Cheers!

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
You quoted my reference to the SEBI audit..

"These included Modland Wears, Fern Healthcare and Best Healthcare. And also ordered to repay were RHC holding and Religare Finvest“

Then you wrote

" These are companies always owned and operated by the brothers. "

I'm sorry Anon but that is false.

You claimed to have read the SEBI order 10 times.

But you missed this from page 6 of the SEBI order...

"... FHsL (a 100% subsidiary OF FHL) had given numerous short term loans to unrelated entities (viz, Best, Fern and Modland). All the loans were interest bearing loans. In order to identify the ultimate beneficiaries of the short term loans provided by FHsL to Best, Fern, and Modland, the money trail for each of the loan transaction and repayment transaction was established. "

" It was observed that the loans given to the borrower companies (Best, Fern, Modland) had been immediately transferred to promoter related entities (viz RHC and Religare Finvest limited) on the very same day or within a couple of days and the repayment of such loans.... "

Best Fern and Modland were unrelated entities at the time to Movinder and Shivinder, according to the SEBI audit. But these shell companies colluded together with them in the fraud.

Now, who owned and was in charge of Best, Fern and Modland during the Scandal?

They resigned and Shivinder took over in 2018...to try to cover..

For Modland wears, founded in 1991..
"
The longest serving director currently on board is Shivinder Mohan Singh who was appointed on 24 September, 2018. Shivinder Mohan Singh has been on the board for 5 months. "

https://www.tofler.in/modland-wears-private-limited/company/U70200DL1991PTC044907

Shivinder was not a related party during the scheme, only afterwards. And this was because in one single day the directors of these three companies resigned and Shivinder took over....

Quite a saga!

[Spence Tepper]

And the SEBI then summarizes on Page 8

"Though it was portrayed that the loans were given to Best, Fern and Modland which were apparently not connected to FHsL or its directors / promoters at the time of giving the loans, the ultimate beneficiaries of such loans were RHC Holding and other promoter related entities.."

[Spence Tepper]

And further, Anon

You will notice if you review the current directorship information on line that RSSBs Rajveer Singh remains one of the directors of all three companies, and that as indicated above Shivender has become a director as well at Fern and Modland Wears. This supports Movinder's claim that Shivender has now stepped in to assume the liability of these shell companies, and is in the process of doing so.

From the article originally posted on RSSB
"However, Rajveer Singh continued to be on several other companies of the Singh brothers. These include Best Healthcare, Fern Healthcare, and Modland Wears, all three named in the recent Luthra & Luthra report as alleged recipients of money allegedly siphoned from Fortis Healthcare."

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

While Movinder's has his own interests, there is corroboration in

[Spence Tepper]

From the High Court of India Order...
"...
12. Gurinder Singh Dhillon
13. Gurkirat Singh Dhillon
14. Gurpreet Singh Dhillon
...
32. Shabnam Dhillon"

All ordered to repay.

[Anon]

Spence yay now your quoting the Sebi report we can actually talk about your quotes.

You quoted from the report
" It was observed that the loans given to the borrower companies (Best, Fern, Modland) had been immediately transferred to promoter related entities (viz RHC and Religare Finvest limited) on the very same day or within a couple of days and the repayment of such loans.... "

Yes the promoters are the Singh brothers so the money was diverted into accounts these 3 companies that they are the directors of(fern,modland and best) only to eventually land up in their own entities. (RHc and Religare finvest limited). So who were the ultimate beneficiaries? Malvinder and shivinder according to Sebi.

Also you quote
“"Though it was portrayed that the loans were given to Best, Fern and Modland which were apparently not connected to FHsL or its directors / promoters at the time of giving the loans, the ultimate beneficiaries of such loans were RHC Holding and other promoter related entities.."

Thank you for quoting Spence you proved the same point I made in my previous posts that the Singh brothers were the beneficiaries according to the full forensic Sebi report.

Now I don’t know how Rejveer Singh is and I can’t speak on anything about him.

But my point you helped me make is Nowhere in the Sebi report is the Dhillon family mentioned at all. Thank you Spence that was easy.

[Spence Tepper]

Also, Anon,
You had claimed earlier that the only source of information pointing to Gurinder and family at loan recipients, is found in Malvinder 's EOW.

This is false. Other independent sources include the audits by the Serious Fraud Investigation Office and an independent audit conducted by Livemint.

"New Delhi/Mumbai: The alleged funds diversion at Fortis Healthcare Ltd could add up to more than ₹2,000 crore, according to the trail of funds uncovered by the Serious Fraud Investigation Office (SFIO), a government official said.

" The Securities and Exchange Board of India (Sebi), too, suspects that the total size of the Fortis fraud could be much higher than the ₹403 crore it originally estimated, a second person familiar with the development said, requesting anonymity.

" Sebi has already passed an order against Fortis to recover ₹500 crore from the Singh brothers for funds diverted to the promoter and promoter-related entities in December.

“At the heart of the alleged fund diversion is Gurinder Singh Dhillon, head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, and Sanjay Godhwani, a former associate of Malvinder and Shivinder Singh. Six promoter-related companies were used to effect the funds diversion," the first person cited above said on condition of anonymity."

And also...

"According to the second person cited above, funds from Fortis or Religare group companies were extended to any of these six companies and a portion of these loans were advanced to Dhillon family members and Godhwani brothers.

" According to the financial statements of these companies reviewed by Mint, ₹430 crore was received by Best Healthcare from Fortis and Religare group while ₹207.15 crore was advanced to Dhillon’s sons Gurpreet and Gurkirat Singh Dhillon.

" An additional ₹287 crore loan was extended to the Godhwani and Dhillon families out of the ₹496 crore received from Fortis and Religare by Fern Healthcare.

" A sum of ₹223.15 crore was also advanced to the Dhillon family by Modland Wears, ₹152 crore by Adept Creations and ₹8 crore by Rosestar Marketing Pvt. Ltd (cross holding with Green Line)."

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

[Jen]

To all the guys here attacking and looking for some evidence, with much glee, to find something against the guru. I get it. You are atheists and of course atheists don't believe in a soul or an afterlife and so they think they will avoid rebirth and karma so they can get away with their behaviour.

Of course there is the other extreme, people who desperately want to believe they will be saved by some perfect living master. I feel for them because its must be difficult to realise that he is just another human being, albeit someone who has been delegated to continue in a line of Masters and from what I've observed is still just simply doing his job to the best of his ability.

As a Charan initiate, I find it quite sad, but anyway I will continue to watch and wait to see how this all plays out. It is possible to find the middle road. Just observing and watching the opposite sides of the conflict with an understanding that this is a world of duality, so be it.

[Jesse]

I'm not an atheist, Jen. But it's not really necessary to believe in karma or rebirth either. I think just as we're all a composite of absorbed vitamins and minerals and other crap, so too is consciousness a substance that disintegrates and a bunch of those pieces get re-accumulated into a new temporary being.

You and I and Gurinder are non existent outside of the elements that have temporarily congealed into their current form. Like play doh of the gods. And I assume that just as while living and "being" "me" parts of this body have fallen onto soil, been sucked up by a plant and eaten by sumdood somewhere and become a part of his cellular apparatus, so too have parts of the substance of consciousness that I once possessed in this form already been "eaten" by someone and become a part of their play doh form. Parts of what has taken this form you see are dying and being reborn at all times. Cosmic cannibalism.

But ask Manjit. He watches high brow BBC documentaries and knows men who totally aren't schizo who throw shit at passerby. My God, the man is a genius.

[Dungeness]

“At the heart of the alleged fund diversion is Gurinder Singh Dhillon, head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, and Sanjay Godhwani, a former associate of Malvinder and Shivinder Singh. Six promoter-related companies were used to effect the funds diversion," the first person cited above said on condition of anonymity."

"At the "heart" of the diversion is... " ?

I wonder if GSD is like the right heart chamber or left in this metaphor?
Gosh maybe he's the defective valve that sluiced all those backflows.

Or could the anonymous source, wanting to save a few breaths and
heartbeats, have shortened the "usual suspects" list (GSD / Shabnam
/sons /Sanjay) down to just GSD? Hell, everybody's doin' it....

Or do multiple suspects not give GSD a sliver of deniability? A flicker of
hope for a heart bypass operation maybe? "Nah", sez deep throat,
"GSD is the bleeding heart. Why do you think I'm spitting up all this
blood..."

Alas, poor Sanjay though... he's gonna need a transplant.

[Anon]

Spence I replied to your earlier
Messages about the Sebi quotes but I don’t see that posted. So I will
Wait for that to post before I can move on to your next posts.

[Jesse]

Dungeness, until any of the others on the list claim to be the creator of the universe it should be obvious why everyone's a little more critical of Gurinder at this point.

Normal people are expected to make mistakes. Men who claim to be the source of existence itself are kind of asking for increased scrutiny.

It was the same for that fat nepali guy in the 80s who claimed to be "lord of the universe" as he danced in theater garb. He's now been demoted to D Grade motivational speaker. Far below his original stature of being God.

[Jen]

@ Jesse, "Cosmic cannibalism" lol.

I seem to be hanging onto my belief in karma and rebirth even though I have massive doubts as to practically all theories about life and death. When I look at the huge population on this planet nowadays it looks like humans are simply these strange minuscule creatures roaming the earth and I'm wondering when the apocalypse is going to happen.

Nothing lasts, especially our tiny human lifetimes and also this tiny planet in a huge multiverse. I still obviously have an ego and have hope that this life has been well worthwhile and maybe there is an afterlife but then who knows, maybe we are just a drop which will merge into an ocean of nothingness...

[Spence Tepper]

Jen
The middle path is acknowledging facts. That is the razor's edge.
On either side is prejudice, fear, anger, greed, jealousy, desire, reactions driven by emotion, which further clouds understanding.

You see, these facts don't actually tell us what the real intentions were or the details of each person's role.

Crimes were committed, fraud and basically theft on a grand scale. Theft from others. Fraud against other people. Some in ignorance, some with the false justification that any decision must be divine.

But who is to blame?

I like the wisdom of the high court of India. They did their job as close to perfect as anyone could have hoped for.

Gurinder, Gurpreet, Gurkirat and Shabnam are each responsible and under court order to pay exactly the delinquent loans they owe. And because they are delinquent, and they have said and done nothing to repay, their assets are now frozen.

This is the right decision. They must pay the injured parties, and balance the scale.

We need not go further. They are members of a long list, over fifty people and companies. Everyone on that list shares some of the guilt and delinquency, including Gurinder.

And as stated so many times, all should pay their dues, just as each of us. Thry should pay those they have taken from. They should compensate appropriately those they have defrauded. And they should do so happily, happy for the gift of human life. Just as we should face the ups and downs of our life with equanimity, with balance and a smile as we walk that razor's edge, each of us.

So again, Gurinder, join the human race and please pay your delinquent bills.

[Spence Tepper]

Anon
I don't see your reply, but that's OK. If you can provide any new evidence, or can acknowledge the facts presented through the above links we have a basis for further dialogue. But simply making unfounded claims serves no purpose.

You and I are both free to believe whatever we wish. And it is likely we will. But who wants to believe they are wrong?

Ask yourself when you were last vwrong and how did you publicly acknowledge it?

I'm not an Atheist. I'm a. Satsangi. And that makes me more concerned about living responsibly, not less.

I can't make claims about Gurinder. But as my brother Satsangi, I encourage him to pay his delinquent bills, and offer my assistance and support in doing so.

As for the other Satsangis involved in the fraud or working hard to dismiss criminal behavior, I see religious dogma replacing personal responsibility, which is exactly the opposite of the purpose of Sant Mat.

But how do we clean house of that thinking? Please see above.

In fact, take a closer look at all that Brian Ji has written. He is Maharaji 's divine bulldozer.

[Brian Hines]

Anon, all of your comments have been posted, and there's nothing in the spam folder. So if one of your comments hasn't appeared, it's because you haven't submitted it yet.

[Jesse]

"I seem to be hanging onto my belief in karma and rebirth"

Maybe it's the right belief.

This is why we need Tucson to come back. He has an amazing way of saying "you don't know jack squat" in a variety of styles.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hi s* - wonder what the reason is? Think the guru still has something up his sleeve? Yep there’s also remnant disappointment re the Sant Mat path for me and I feel sadness for the followers who seem to be heading for a big wake-up call …..
Turan mentioned that a likely reason why many RSSB followers do not seem to be aware/care? about the financial drama involving the present Guru/family/inner circle can be explained by ‘Cognitive Dissonance’ (CD). A term mentioned several times before on this blog.
Got me thinking about it. Simply put it means: the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person’s belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person (Wikipedia). Such folk then adopt various means to lessen the discomfort. This of course would be happening all the time in life as we respond to various situations. In fact in this world of dualities we often find ourselves in, a state of CD almost would be the norm - like we’re often ‘at odds’ with things, ‘in two minds’ about stuff etc … It would become a much more ‘serious’ mental state when some of our core beliefs about who we are/what’s really important to us etc are challenged.
Relating this to RSSB and how CD occurs (given all the drama as reported thus far is true) a couple of e.gs:
1. Follower - right from the start I was told and have believed since then that the Guru is God in Human Form -
Present situation - Guru seems to be behaving like a human being with ‘issues’ (putting it mildly) around use of power and wealth.
CD Response - saying to oneself ‘It is all his will, He knows what he’s doing’ etc - i.e. completely discount his ‘humanness’ and stick with the belief he’s GIHF.
2. Follower - right from the start the teachings I believe, say that the soul (‘my’ essence) was separated from God (its source) and has to make its way back there, (tacking on associated beliefs in a time period, reincarnation, karma, hierarchy of spiritual stages/progress markers etc)
Present situation - Guru says burn the books, soul is truth, there is only ‘Oneness’ etc (at least to Osho :-))
CD response - well f’k me, that’s interesting, kinda makes sense but don’t I really have to strive to get ‘there’? I certainly feel like a separated ‘entity’, I guess I’ll know what he’s on about when I get there…

That’s a quick analysis from me and I’m no psychologist. I think Turan further hit the nail on the head we he said its all part of a ‘self’-defending process - “Perhaps all we can do is to accept that they [our opinions - like what I’ve just written] are simply exercises in maintaining our particular minds' contents at this moment and see them as insights into how our minds, how our thoughts deceive us into believing its ad hoc contents to be true or reflect reality”.

To me what it points to is the fundamental core/cause? of cognitive dissonance - the belief we exist as a separate self, a self supported by thought. If we were not caught up in thinking all the time (past and future), and living more in the now, CD wouldn’t be such an issue.

Best wishes

[Jen]

@ Jesse, I do miss tucson and tAo.

I learned a lot from them, they were a force to be reckoned with. Funny and knowledgeable.

Have to get my act together and let go of this existential angst... sigh

[s*]

Tim,
You wrote it how I also as feel it is.
The CD is absolutely there..I have known this from experience.
Even more times knowing there was untruth,but did not want to see that.
Now a lot of satsangi's has to go trough it and it is no fun!!
Mindfulness and living in here and now helps..if one wants to see that..
But for satsangi's is it difficult because most are not at all there..
They looking for sachkhand and master..
Doing everything for that..

[Anon]

Spence now we are talking you are quoting the Sebi reports so we can actually discuss on the same page.

You quoted
And the SEBI then summarizes on Page 8

"Though it was portrayed that the loans were given to Best, Fern and Modland which were apparently not connected to FHsL or its directors / promoters at the time of giving the loans, the ultimate beneficiaries of such loans were RHC Holding and other promoter related entities.."

Exactly what I said it clearly says the beneficiaries are the brothers. Sebi concluded the money went into their entities.
Also if you lookup directors and past directors of all 3 companies (fern,modland and best) all 3 companies have the brothers on the boar among some other people I have never heard of. If you want I can post in here for you and all to see.
Nowhere does this Sebi report mention the Dhillon family.

I don’t know who rajveer Singh is so I can’t speak on anything about him.

Now do you see that this diversion of funds were orchestrated by the brothers for the benefit of the brothers according to Sebi?

[Dungeness]

Gurinder, Gurpreet, Gurkirat and Shabnam are each responsible and under court order to pay exactly the delinquent loans they owe. And because they are delinquent, and they have said and done nothing to repay, their assets are now frozen.

I don't think anything needs to be said now does it? Oh, you mean
long suffering devotees are owed a divine mea culpa and GSD's
tearful reunion with the "human race"... well, the court has ruled
and applied appropriate civil remedies. They didn't opine further.

There were no pious homilies needed. No dramatic scenes with cries
of "Shame, shame... and you call yourself a Baba" were reported.
Wait, I take that back. They've already been happening for months
and months in the blogs.

The court sentence didn't sort out who actually bears ethical or moral
responsibility unlike those far-seeing blog "bulldozers". Those beacons of
light and truth ferreted out the mastermind immediately and have been
working hard to shepherd us all back into the ways of righteousness.

Now a civil judgment cinches the opprobrium of GSD's lifestyle and
decisions. Yep, he single-handedly sold a charitable hospital, poisoned
kids with tainted meds, closed a free school, built huge Satsang centers,
jetted to them on a private plane. All of it clearly out of greed and ego.
Vanity of vanities.

As for the other Satsangis involved in the fraud or working hard to dismiss criminal behavior, I see religious dogma replacing personal responsibility, which is exactly the opposite of the purpose of Sant Mat.

"Dimissing criminal behavior", eh? You mean, you mean those who were
willing to wait for the courts? The bulldozer crew knew all along he and
family were guilty, right? They rigorously scanned tabloid facts and knew
the Truth. That and GSD's lifestyle alone cinched it. Verily, I say unto you
the "Baba" is a greedy, obsessed, heartless con man.

Any other conclusion is evidence of "dogma". Bow your heads and let
those truth loving Blogger Ji's lead the way and guide us all in the
"Ways of the Bulldozer".

[Anon]

Spence regarding your live mint article. This is an allegation made by someone who sent in an email anonymously. Nothing has been proven. So much so that the company where funds were supposed to be stolen from has this to say about this allegation.

“In a statement, Fortis Healthcare said: “Issues related to the erstwhile promoters and the fund diversion have already been disclosed in the statutory filings by the company and are subject matter of investigations being conducted by regulatory authorities (Subject Investigation)."
Fortis is referring to its earlier disclosure that ₹473 crore was diverted by its subsidiary Fortis Hospitals Ltd to third parties. “We strongly deny and refute the contents that have been referred in the email in as much as it suggests that funds in addition to Subject Investigation have been diverted from Fortis," Fortis said, adding that it continues to cooperate with and follow the directions of all relevant regulatory authorities.”

Fortis STRONGLY DENIES allegations that additional funds have been diverted. From their company. The company stolen from is clearly saying they dont believe more had been stolen. This is pretty clear Which to me means someone is just trying to create a story out of nothing, Otherwise Sebi would have revised their order.

[Arjuna]

Spence

You are right that you should encourage him to pay his bills as a satsanghi brother.

Let's hope and pray for you that he doesn't ask you to pay all your karma in one hit. You wont know what hit you. Awareness will be gone and the pain too severe. Be careful what you wish for.

[PJ]

@arjuna Threats and fear based rhetoric. That's what you resort to when the soft soaping fails. Cult 101.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon

You misquoted the SEBI report
You wrote
"Yes the promoters are the Singh brothers so the money was diverted into accounts these 3 companies that they are the directors of(fern,modland and best) only to eventually land up in their own entities. (RHc and Religare finvest limited)."

I'm sorry Anon but this is false.

Here is what the SEBI wrote...page 6,

" "... FHsL (a 100% subsidiary OF FHL) had given numerous short term loans to unrelated entities (viz, Best, Fern and Modland). All the loans were interest bearing loans. In order to identify the ultimate beneficiaries of the short term loans provided by FHsL to Best, Fern, and Modland, the money trail for each of the loan transaction and repayment transaction was established. "

Best, Fern and Modland wears are unrelated to the Singhs. They had no ties to those business entities. They were neither directors nor owners at the time. This is why the SEBI says they are unrelated business entities.

And they say again...

" " It was observed that the loans given to the borrower companies (Best, Fern, Modland) had been immediately transferred to promoter related entities (viz RHC and Religare Finvest limited) on the very same day or within a couple of days and the repayment of such loans.... "

Here the SEBI audit states that the money went through these unrelated companies and siphoned by them to companies where the Singhs did have ownership units, RHC and Religare Finvest..

The money went through companies the Singh brothers had no legal connection to and was immeduately siphoned to companies they do have interests in.

Agsin, from page 9 of the SEBI report
""Though it was portrayed that the loans were given to Best, Fern and Modland which were apparently not connected to FHsL or its directors / promoters at the time of giving the loans, the ultimate beneficiaries of such loans were RHC Holding and other promoter related entities.."he three companies, Modland Wears, Fern and Best were shell companies run by Satsangis, Rajveer Singh notably holding a directorship during this time."

You have stated twice now, and in direct contradiction to the SEBI report, that the Singhs has business ties to Modland, Fern and Best. But the SEBI report page 6 and page 8,says they did not.

Therefore your claim that the SEBI report says that Modland Fern and Best were promoter related companies is false. And you have made this false claim three separate times.

If you have any other information, confirmed through some verifiable source, that refutes the SEBI audit and supports your claim, I'm happy to read it.

But your statement that the SEBI audit supports your claim is false.

The Singhs had no business ties to Modland, Fern and Best at the time of the Fraud. At that time Satsangis ran that company, according to the article that had been posted in the RSSB website.

Furthermore, both the Series Crines Division's expanded audit, and a third audit by Livemint, confirmed that hundreds of crore of the fraudulent loans accepted by Modland, Fern and Best went to Gurinder, his sons and wife...

"At the heart of the alleged fund diversion is Gurinder Singh Dhillon, head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, and Sanjay Godhwani, a former associate of Malvinder and Shivinder Singh. Six promoter-related companies were used to effect the funds diversion," the first person cited above said on condition of anonymity."

And also...

"According to the second person cited above, funds from Fortis or Religare group companies were extended to any of these six companies and a portion of these loans were advanced to Dhillon family members and Godhwani brothers.

" According to the financial statements of these companies reviewed by Mint, ₹430 crore was received by Best Healthcare from Fortis and Religare group while ₹207.15 crore was advanced to Dhillon’s sons Gurpreet and Gurkirat Singh Dhillon.

" An additional ₹287 crore loan was extended to the Godhwani and Dhillon families out of the ₹496 crore received from Fortis and Religare by Fern Healthcare.

" A sum of ₹223.15 crore was also advanced to the Dhillon family by Modland Wears, ₹152 crore by Adept Creations and ₹8 crore by Rosestar Marketing Pvt. Ltd (cross holding with Green Line)."

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

[Spence Tepper]

Oops copy and paste error
This is from the SEBI report page 6

"""Though it was portrayed that the loans were given to Best, Fern and Modland which were apparently not connected to FHsL or its directors / promoters at the time of giving the loans, the ultimate beneficiaries of such loans were RHC Holding and other promoter related entities.."

And then I added..

The three companies, Modland Wears, Fern and Best were shell companies run by Satsangis, Rajveer Singh notably holding a directorship during this time.

[Spence Tepper]

Arjuna
We're working through our Karma without secrecy, without denial. And where we have injured, we accept responsibility and do what we can to make amends openly.

That rule is the Sant Mat way. It is a universal standard for all humanity and all time. No escape. Not even the Guru.

Besides, his own Guru b is there and available.

As a Satsangi I have no interest to avoiding whatever I've done. That would be living in illusion. The entire creation is my ally.

Truth wants to be uncovered and inspected. We do so with compassion. That is the way.

The razor's edge, the middle way, is acknowledging facts, and where we can, offering to help.

Right now the entire Sangat and the world is burdened with what has happened, this massive fraud and theft all the layers of secrecy and dishonesty. But the moment the truth is openly acknowedged and accepted by the responsible parties and everyone involved starts working grain by grain, rupee by rupee to pay the debt, apology by apology, then Majaraji, Jaimal Singh, Brian Ji and all the saints of all creation are here to help the healing process.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
You wrote
"Also if you lookup directors and past directors of all 3 companies (fern,modland and best) all 3 companies have the brothers on the boar among some other people I have never heard of. If you want I can post in here for you and all to see."

Not according to the SEBI at the time of the fraud... Page 6

" "... FHsL (a 100% subsidiary OF FHL) had given numerous short term loans to unrelated entities (viz, Best, Fern and Modland). All the loans were interest bearing loans. In order to identify the ultimate beneficiaries of the short term loans provided by FHsL to Best, Fern, and Modland, the money trail for each of the loan transaction and repayment transaction was established. "

" It was observed that the loans given to the borrower companies (Best, Fern, Modland) had been immediately transferred to promoter related entities (viz RHC and Religare Finvest limited) on the very same day or within a couple of days and the repayment of such loans.... "

Best Fern and Modland were unrelated entities at the time to Movinder and Shivinder, according to the SEBI audit.

Read it again." "unrelated entities"..

But these shell companies colluded together with them in the fraud.

Anon, if you have actual proof that Shivinder and Malvinder held directorships or ownership units in these three companies during the fraud, you will have to do more than state it.

You will need to provide hard evidence. Links that prove what you say was true during the time of the fraud. SEBI states you are wrong.

And my own review supports what SEBI states. It is only in 2018 after the fraud that Shivinder stepped in again. While at Fortis, he and Malvinder were not in directorships nor held ownership units in those three companies... Your claim is false.

You also claimed that the SEBI audit was final. This is also false.

"New Delhi/Mumbai: The alleged funds diversion at Fortis Healthcare Ltd could add up to more than ₹2,000 crore, according to the trail of funds uncovered by the Serious Fraud Investigation Office (SFIO), a government official said.

" The Securities and Exchange Board of India (Sebi), too, suspects that the total size of the Fortis fraud could be much higher than the ₹403 crore it originally estimated, a second person familiar with the development said, requesting anonymity.

" Sebi has already passed an order against Fortis to recover ₹500 crore from the Singh brothers for funds diverted to the promoter and promoter-related entities in December.

“At the heart of the alleged fund diversion is Gurinder Singh Dhillon, head of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, and Sanjay Godhwani, a former associate of Malvinder and Shivinder Singh. Six promoter-related companies were used to effect the funds diversion," the first person cited above said on condition of anonymity."

And also...

"According to the second person cited above, funds from Fortis or Religare group companies were extended to any of these six companies and a portion of these loans were advanced to Dhillon family members and Godhwani brothers.

" According to the financial statements of these companies reviewed by Mint, ₹430 crore was received by Best Healthcare from Fortis and Religare group while ₹207.15 crore was advanced to Dhillon’s sons Gurpreet and Gurkirat Singh Dhillon.

" An additional ₹287 crore loan was extended to the Godhwani and Dhillon families out of the ₹496 crore received from Fortis and Religare by Fern Healthcare.

" A sum of ₹223.15 crore was also advanced to the Dhillon family by Modland Wears, ₹152 crore by Adept Creations and ₹8 crore by Rosestar Marketing Pvt. Ltd (cross holding with Green Line)."

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

[Georgy Porgy]

Yep sounds like the current satsangis are actually reading the court proceedings, whereas the exes are trying to lift stuff out of context and jumping to sweeping conclusions.

My money’s on the current satsangis. The exes protest too much. They sound v angry. Like vicious rabid dogs (shepherds) actually. Thank Gd noones brought up sparrows on this one.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Anon
You wrote
"Spence regarding your live mint article. This is an allegation made by someone who sent in an email anonymously. Nothing has been proven. So much so that the company where funds were supposed to be stolen from has this to say about this allegation."

No Anon, that is false. The Livemint article is based on the statements of two government officials connected to the Serious Crimes audits and the SEBI, and thirdly, their own independent audit of the loans.

Please re - read the article for yourself in detail...

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

[Brian Hines]

Georgy Porgy, you're denying reality, a very unscientific thing to do. Face the facts. Spence Tepper has been doing a good job refuting Anon's tactless comments with direct quotes from the SEBI report.

Numerous stories in the Indian financial press have documented the illegal siphoning of funds to shell companies controlled at the time by the Dhillon family and their close associates.

You really should inform yourself before writing comments so at odds with the facts. Truth is a wonderful thing.

[Georgy Porgy]

Live mint sounds dodgy already - proceed no further - tabloid trash.

[Brian Hines]

Georgy Porgy, you are amazingly adverse to facts. Have you ever heard of Google? Apparently not. Maybe you should take a break from commenting and spend time learning about how to learn.

I'm good at it. Just took me a minute or two to fire up Wikipedia and learn about what you wrongly call "tabloid trash." Here's some excerpts from the Mint article (LiveMint is the online version).
-------------------
Mint is an Indian financial daily newspaper published by HT Media, a Delhi-based media group which is controlled by the KK Birla family and also publishes Hindustan Times.[2] It mostly targets readers who are business executives and policy makers. It has been in circulation since 2007.[3]

It is India's first newspaper to be published in the Berliner format. The former editor of the Wall Street Journal India, Raju Narisetti was the founding editor of Mint till he stepped down in 2008.[4] Narisetti was succeeded by Sukumar Ranganathan who served as editor till 2017.[5

...According to former editor Sukumar Ranganathan, in its 10 years of existence, Mint has won 10 Society of Publishers of Asia awards and 10 Ramnath Goenka Excellence in Journalism awards.[14]

In 2008, the newspaper won two awards at the 7th Annual Asia Media Awards organised by the World Association of Newspapers and News Publishers.[15]

For 2009, the newspaper won three Ranmnath Goenka awards in the fifth edition of the awards presented by the Indian Express Group.[16]

In 2011 and 2012, the newspaper won three Ramnath Goenka awards, two for 2011 and one for 2012.[17]

In 2016, Mint won three Ramnath Goenka Excellence in Journalism awards.[18]

[Georgy Porgy]

Yeah but Brian whose “facts”?
I think Anon is reading the reports correctly, whereas you guys are picking out bits and pieces and then jumping to conclusions that the court has not made.

Besides I cannot take Spence’s opinion seriously, the man is clearly deranged, no disrespect intended, but truth be told he’s barking mad. There are some folk you want in charge of a Boeing 777 and/or as judges in a court of law. Objective rational individuals who can strip the emotion of it.

Do you see Spence fullfiling that role? I mean god help us all —- he’s a compete nutter.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian
How can Georgy dismiss information without a detailed review?
And make a personal attack in addition to that?
How can Anon, after reading a government audit that states "not promoter related" and then claim "see, it says promoter related!"?

Even after his error has been pointed out repeatedly?

I believe it is these reactions that reflect everything wrong with today's RSSB culture of arrogance. And it is frightening to witness. And it isn't limited to the initiates, if Georgy is telling the truth.

Like the excuses neighbors made to the cries and screams for help over several hours by Kitty Genovese, until she finally died.

All the neighbors were certain that someone else surely must have called an ambulance. And they were angry no one else did something.

But when one spouse said to the other "shouldn't we call the police?" Did their spouse angrily exclaim, "nothing is wrong... Let someone else figure it out! What's your problem?!"

It is the diffusion of personal responsibility. And the fear and threat of taking personal responsibility.

The very belief we rely upon when life is too overwhelming can become a crutch turning us into irresponsible, even dangerously irresponsible, human beings.

I believe when Anon reads the SEBI report his brain alters the text to say "these were promoter related companies..." and actually deleting the word "NON-" before the word "promoter."

And therefore little more can be done.

Same for Georgy. He is angry and must make personal accusations, but will not reveal his personal bias.

Then Georgy claims to be an Atheist.

And Dungeness, who believes, even after the High Court of India ruling that surely there must be another real ruling, a true final conclusion sometime, somewhere in the future, and we should all just remain inactive and patiently wait.

13You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its savor, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men.
Matthew 5:13

[Spence Tepper]

Brian, it seems to me that it is the belief that God is doing it all, that God is all powerful that leads people to cut corners on their personal responsibility. Even fraud can be excused in this easy.

They need to be brought into Atheism. They need to accept full responsibility for their words and actions.

If there is a God who is good, then God demands it.

[Arjuna]

@ Spence- I get you. I'm only looking out for you brother in my own way. I left the path 15 years ago.

@ PJ - shut you. You sound annoying. Spence knows what I meant.

Adios

[Amar]

Georgy is in fact a troll. He says he isn't affiliated with RSSB and not a satsangi.

By reading his posts, he undeniably sides with GSD sympathizers, and has no facts or relevant opinions to offer.

So, according to his useless posts, one can deduce he is lying, probably about most things.

Nobody has responded to the fact that GSD and his family have had their assets frozen and forced by the court to repay. That is a damning judgement against them. Going back and trying to find holes in the data this is based on is pointless. The High Court has ruled that they ALL are to be held responsible for paying back the money.
Not just GSD, but all of them listed and the companies the monies were siphoned into.

The reason the focus is put on GSD in particular is that he should be no where near this type of thing. Not even within a whiff of impropriety. That's the reason. Others are clearly involved and they are and should be held accountable.
GSD is mixed up in this and that is wrong. That's sad and the nefarious thing about this. My parents developed an unhealthy relationship to money because running after maya "money" was wrong and the root of all evil. Now we hear that the Guru of the faith we've been following for generations, has separate rules for the guru and his close friends and different ones for the clueless and ignorant masses.

The guru is held more accountable than anyone else. And it's a shame that we're even discussing this, but it needs to be talked about. If the papers and news reports and court rulings are not talked about, then how would anyone know?

Ignorance, clearly is not bliss. Talk passionately and truthfully about the facts, not about how true your feelings are. We need to deal with what is happening in the real world and the consequences of these peoples actions. Acknowledge the facts and let's have a discussion about what you plan on doing, one way or the other. Denying the court ruling or ignoring it doesnt mean it is not real.

[Spence Tepper]

Amar
Amen.

[Georgy Porgy]

Friends, CoC disciples, and Spence,

My thoughts:

@Spence. It’s just my personal viewpoint - I think you are are an idiot, but I mean it’s not as personal as your comments to the guru. I mean come off it - you are barking rabid mad like one of your shepherd trying to bite the poor gurus butt - and I just called you an idiot. It’s tame. Also I suspect I’m more likely to be right than you.

@Amar. Call it trolling. But you don’t expect me to take any of your hang-em comments seriously do you? The life and reputation of an innocent man is at stake. I’ve got no religious affiliations whatsoever, never initiated or a member of any church - I was however forced by grandmother age 5 to attend bush baptist Methodist services on Xmas day. The minister never invited me back. Why are you so anti-guru ?