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June 21, 2019

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I appreciated all those same comments by Amar and am very familiar with the spiritual arrogance that I too acquired and witnessed all around me in RSSB. The equality thing doesn't resonate with me, but that's neither here nor there.

My post RSSB decade has been wasted at least partially in finding another cult to join, but I see an identical arrogance everywhere i look. Religion makes devils out of mankind. Whether it's god centered or secular religions the same attitudes are prevelant.

Like the crazy man on the road screams to the kids looking for directions in Friday the 13th part 3, we're all doomed.

Just to follow up on Brian's compilation, that this is what I've experienced and seen myself. If you're lucky and in an area that doesn't have this vibe around it, consider yourself blessed and move along with your journey. I've been exposed to all sorts of people over the years from different places of different seva rank, and they're all the same. Ego is tough nut to crack.

Where there are humans, there will be the mind and the mind is a bitch to control. We all fall prey to it at some point. I've seen GSD get pissed and get angry at his accommodations. They weren't setup properly. We all get angry. We all get disappointed, and egos will be bruised. But if we choose to follow a perfect living master, then the bar gets set high. That's where we can get into trouble.

GSD says this often, don't put me on a pedestal. Everyone thinks he's trying to be humble, but I think he's being honest. He's trying to tell everyone he's not what they think he is. He's just like us, in a seva that he probably wished he never took on. But I guess when you get dealt with a mind blowing ego swelling seva like that, you have to play along and maybe it just consumed him.

At any rate, I'm moving on and there is no hatred from me on GSD, just disappointment.

Hi Amar
You can still feel special. You're alive! There are miracles everywhere!
But we are all the same... Another atom in a fantastic creation. We can feel special when we personally make progress. We can enjoy the company of our fellow atoms.

But this caste system, this sense that life doesn't flow through all of us just some of us, that some are entitled to privileges, some are real and others aren't, is very wrong. We are all lucky to be alive. And I think it is an insult to reality to presume we are something more.

Discovery, I've found, is another opportunity to feel special. That moment when you see something new you didn't see before. That's a gift reality is giving to you. And that feels special. Of course, whatever we discover was already there long before any human being was born. But it's nice to be able to learn through discovery. That sense of something new is really wonderful. There are many innocent pleasures we can enjoy, and feel good about, even special about, that don't leave that sticky residue of ego... Layers of ego on top of ego until we don't even recognize what we were or are.

That encrusted cystic creature is not special, but horrifying. When a whole organization creates those like a factory pumping out cars, when it turns innocent beings into those like the Island of Dr. Moreau, transforming people into animals, and transforming animals to look like people, then we are happy to withdraw from it.

Amar, if Gurinder is just being honest and doesn't want to be doing his "seva", why doesn't he just come out and say it or quit the guru business?

He could do it without disrupting anything and tell the sangat that he's received a message from God to pass on the duties to whoever is next.

Or if he's just being honest, why not have a serious talk one time and say outright "I'm just a normal guy who got stuck with a guru job that I didn't know how to escape. I've never seen any inner master, I don't know shit about anything. I just want to make money and chase women."

Thinking that he's dropping little hints is just more of the same putting him on a pedestal. Honesty is direct. He's not direct or honest about anything. He's an actor.

In fact except for the Master I never considered any other perfect in this world and before joining RSSB we were people of different hue and nationalities and culture with imperfect or perfect societal/ governance system in place at our respective places.

In the context of Indian soil which has predominantly harboured corrupt systems and abject poverty mostly, the same people who basically migrate to santmat carry similar tendencies and culture although show great improvements.

Therefore system/management in place in the Dera and other centres has the smell of similar tendencies with high and mighty and the hierarchy of sewadars who chair the seats mostly affected with egoism and egotism while it may be absent or find subdued in developed countries.

Way back some sewadar asked me not to join permanent sewa at Beas as the environment is not that conducive and submissive to Lord as is expected and that I may do it at local centres instead to have a better spiritual environment.

Coming over to Guest houses for The Master and swanky cars etc I find it a little out of place and for that matter for Him to have had pushed Himself through an adventure transporting millions of dollars in a web of business deals from one entity to other as a part of a business group is also a surprise. Why. Was that huge required for Him to meet out His frugal needs and that we sincerely believe Him to be with. He knows best.

To seek Lord or Almighty and before that to know thyself is a compulsion and not a choice. If we think about Life and Death then we need to explore available choices and each option requires Belief or trust to enter to know about the unknown territory within oneself, in private.


Appreciate all your efforts in bringing the TRUTH to the light of devotees, but I feel there is more to do. I belong to the Country (India) where most of devotees aren't equipped well to understand the language English which is used here predominately.

It would have been really nice if we can somehow add translation of the text here in Hindi. I know a large number of my friends, relatives and coworkers who are at least in this dilemma that whether this news is really TRUE. I'll explore if I can be of any help. But this is really great information in one place.

it is not wrong to believe you were chosen, alas the teachings have morphed into Sant Mat 2.0. Teachings of Sant Mat 1.0 from Charan Singh Maharajs time are true as far as Guru coming at the time of death is concerned. Many in my known circle have reported Guru coming to take them at the time of their death or their near and dear ones reporting that guru in his spirit form did come.

id like to add to the previous comment that the guru followed in my family is from the anandpur advaita ashram , guna madhya pradesh lineage. Advaita is sant mat 2.0 which talks of non duality.

Q8i Christians all say they see angels when theyre dying too. It isn't even evidence for an afterlife. It's a symptom of a dying brain.

The disciple went to his teacher, "Master, Master, please help me. I need advice."
Master, "Not now, I am too busy."
Disciple, 'What are you busy doing?"
Master, "Nothing, come back tomorrow."
The disciple duly returned the next day.
Disciple, "Can you help me now please Master?"
Master, "No."
Disciple, "But you said you were doing nothing!"
Master, "I haven't finished yet!"

You all know this one:

Another disciple asked his guru what he did once he became "enlightened." ( me - whatever that really means)

Englightened and humble, ego- less human replies, "I chop wood and carry water.

Disciple, " What did you do, then before you became enlightened?"

Humble man, " I chopped wood and carried water."

I think there is something to Malvinder's claim that Shivinder was offered the Gaddi. That would explain his stepping away from the businesses, which he didn't completely, and spend his time familiarizing himself with the day to day Beas stuff.

Just a hunch, but it would tie in with his "buy in" and transferring money into GSD's family. Conjecture of course, but plausible. Shivinder was to make tours of the Centers outside of India, but that got squashed when the scandal broke.

Jesse, we can only guess at what his rationale is for doing what he's doing. Why he doesn't just come out and say it, I'm guessing it's the legacy he's leaving from this institution? Maybe he doesn't want to leave RSSB in ruins. Maybe his get out plan was to get Shivinder to buy in and abdicate to Shivinder so GSD could live in Singapore quietly, with his son. Who knows? Whichever way you try to reason it out, it's not palatable.

We may not ever know what the plan really was. I'm just happy to have slowly distanced myself from this path.

Jesse
Many see the Guru in their moments of deepest despair while in their prime and nowhere close to death!
Faqir chand said - people claim that i came and helped them, but i don't know, i never went! i don't know who went!

I am a follower of RSSB. Inspite of being in this path, i still chose to attend a vipassana retreat when i felt this RSSB is not providing a conducive environment to put into practice what we were taught - bhajan/ simran. I wanted an environment where we can practice what we were taught during initiation. I thought vipassana as an aid to improve my santmat practice. BUT Vipassana was really an eye opener - the way they have organized it. the 10 day experiences... all for free and no compulsion or being looked down if we do not pay donation. what a wonderful system.. again opportunity to attend 3 day/ 1 day retreats when we need.
but nothing like this in RSSB. The only sewa is by money or service we render, whereas there is no help really to make the disciples follow and do the most important seva babaji says - bhajan / simran.
I badly want to follow vipassana, but so called loyalty prevents me to leave santmat. but now learning about these scandals make me feel i should hv just followed my feelings and come out of this much earlier.

Just like the propaganda campaign aimed at maligning GDS, you again are ascribing false words and beliefs to an organization and man you clearly don’t know anything about.

Surely the whole point of RSSB (if you capable of understanding anything for what it is rather than how you falsely interpret it falsely through the limitations of your own ego) is equality. That the ego and you are unimportant. You are not special. What is special is the potential of every human being too attain knowledge of our higher selves. That is the whole point, you are not special at all - all that ego needs to be stripped bare if you want to attain any spiritual advancement.

By standing in line, thinking you are more special than anyone else, says more about your own overblown ego and psychological issues than Rssb ever could. In fact, you’ve managed to completely distort what it’s trying to teach. An adept would know he is not special, would not want to be put on a pedestal and this is where this humility comes from.

The v last thing they’d do is think they are better than anyone else. What a very wierd and telling article.

I loved the cartoon, "you were a believer, yes, but skipped the not being-a-jerk-about-it-part," because that works both ways and could say:

"you were an atheist, yes, but skipped the not being a jerk about it part."
Not saying anyone here is doing that... just that it's something to be aware of.

Just because you are an Rssb initiate means nothing at all if you are not able to overcome your ego and sense of specialness, you will get nowhere.

That much is obvious to me from the start. You should never have been initiated in the first place and those who are initiated who do feel and behave as if they are special and arrogant will probably get nowhere and up leaving like you CoC lot did. Your ego is simply too big and you don’t have. and probably never had or will have, the makeup to progress on this path.

You seem to have a hankering to be a member of a special club (this is what religion is all about). Total waste of time. it’s fundamentally about an ‘inner’ practice - nothing to do with seva, satsang or writing books of praise or hate or otherwise or you feeling special for doing any of these things.

I think the only thing a true satsangi should feel is not special, but lucky. Lucky in the sense that they’ve come into personal contact with a rare individual on this earth who they directly feel is capable of guiding them to reach their true potential.

If you don’t feel that way, fine, you should never have joined in the first place. You also should never have felt special. And you most certainly should have left earlier to get on with whatever makes you feel special. Perhaps you feel special in maligning GSD, go for it, just confirms why you were never right for spirituality from the start abd never will be, no matter how many books you read or different cults you join.

I was ‘initiated’ (whatever the hell that means) in 1970 by Charan Singh (actually by his representative in NZ.... THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A CLUE too))

I tried quite hard (like Brian) for a number of years....
What took away most of my respect for Charan was that (apparently) when he died, at the Dera, surrounded by all these ‘sevadars’ and doctors, he was wired up to all sorts of things monitoring this and monitoring that.
Hell’s teeth !
His entire message about meditation was that it is learning how to die bit by bit !!!!

Why could he not tell all that lot to get the hell out of it, cross his legs, leave his body, (which he should have been doing every day), and go !

I always followed Swami Ji’s dictat “ Until I see with my own eyes, I do not believe the words of the master”.

all a lot of ‘hocus pocus’ perhaps ?

Yes GSD should come clean and just admit he’s just another jiva, in human form...
But the followers don’t want to hear that...
The whole RSSB ‘edifice’ has got too big for its boots

Q8i
Many see the other things in their moments of deepest despair while in their prime and nowhere close to death!
Some other random person who i don't care about said - claim claim claim claim claim claim claim claim claim claim. None of it is verifiable! It's all gibberish!

Jesse, I appreciate your response and thoughts about that comment. I was just curious to see what someone else’s take on it would be. I now realize that you are more diplomatic and less jaded than I am! 😂

But seriously, it’s always good to get a fresh perspective.

Georgy, you're missing the point of all this. Yes, RSSB says all that nice stuff, but in practice, the ego gets in the way and everyone acts the same as if their at a mandir or gurdwara. Same shit, different washroom.

The politics, the fact that money gets you closer to the guru or controlling committee, is real and alive here just as it is everywhere else. So I've chosen to point it out, and leave it behind. There are aspects to RSSB I like. There are aspects of Buddhism. I like, such as mindfulness and meditation.

Everyone gets their freaking underwear in a knot because someone expresses their experiences or opinions. Understand what someone is writing, then comment. I said why I don't follow RSSB anymore, mostly because of GSD, but also because it doesn't resonate with me.

I don't like labels, why do you have to be either a Democrat or Republican. I like aspects of both parties. Why you have to pigeon hole yourself into religion A, B or C?

Everyone has an ego, Georgy, both you and me. When you angrily respond without actually trying to understand what I'm saying, then maybe try to take your ego down a notch.

Jesse
i don't know about random others you are referring to or what claims they have made or what they have seen. unverifiable gibberish or not i cant comment either way but i know that is irrelevant to what i said.

There is (or was can't be sure) also a guru named "Dugri vale guruji". He has a massive following these days. What is your opinion on him, does he too have a bad record that not many knows or his organisation is indulged in anything illegal ?

No amar - it is you who are missing the point, and so are many others like you - those who feel ‘special’ will get nowhere.

Most humans do have an ego, except for possibly those few rare enlightened ‘mystics’, who have learnt to transcend their ego and realize their higher self. Their message is universal and simple, which is that as a human being you can do the same as them, but first you have to get your ego out of the way and stop feeling so Gdam ‘special’.

Is it any wonder that those who are considered ‘saints’ throughout history, eg mother Teresa are considered ‘selfless’. That is they are less concerned for their self, and more for others - this is someone with a small ego. Whereas the Wallstreet banker is only and entirely out for himself, some pathologically so, and has a huge overblown ego.

There are others who pretend they are doing good, even those within Rssb or any religion, who do their seva and satsang and write books, but many are looking for attention to show they are special. You see the same on here with ppl think they are spiritually special and you know for sure they are not. You want to give to the poor, or help others, you do it anonymously and quietly and away from others - same as advancing spiritually - small ego.

Some ppl have more of an ego than others - some think they are better and special - but that’s precisely what the guru is trying to help you overcome. The Nazis also thought they were special, as have most of the biggest c**nts in history, that’s the one thing they all have in common.

The guru is trying to teach you to NOT be special - to go within and do your Gdam meditation - not share your experiences or thoughts or anything else. This is why none of you are understand the guru or the path and will never advance spiritually.

Georgy Porgy, I love your comments!

A friend used to have a favorite saying, "No one's life ever is completely wasted. They always can serve as a horrible example for others."

Your life definitely isn't being wasted. Your comments are a marvelous example of how people can look straight at reality, but not see it, because their vision is clouded by blind belief. So thanks for that.

Wow. After learning from Amar that the RSSB guru travels in a private jet, has lavish residences built around the world for his use paid for from the money of others, and encourages a system of volunteer work where some classes of "sevadars" are given special privileges, you somehow consider Gurinder Singh Dhillon to be an exemplar of humility and treating everybody equally.

And Amar didn't mention that the guru sits on a stage and allows his devotees to believe that he is God in Human Form, or that the guru and his family are involved in financial fraud totaling hundreds of millions of dollars, and is the subject of a court order that has frozen his assets so they can be garnished to pay huge debts that the guru walked out on.

Yet you see the RSSB guru as a model of humility. You aren't living in the real world, Georgy Porgy. Just like religious believers everywhere, you live in a fantasy world when it comes to religious matters.

So please keep on commenting. Every time I read one of your comments I feel grateful that I'm an open-minded atheist rather than a closed-minded religious believer.

AWESOME Georgy, so you, who knows nothing about RSSB, or about this Gurinder, propounds to know everything about it.

Agsin , since you don't or choose not to read carefully, I don't think I'm special. Quite the contrary, I'm telling you everyone feels they're special and entitled because they are on this path.

I guess we should all anonymously, fraudulently siphon money from a public company and refuse to pay it back. Great leadership and goal setting. Maybe I'll stop declaring income from my rental. The guru does it. Right?

Georgy is an RSSB hack. Stop lying Georgy. It will come back to bite you in the butt. Oops sorry, that's your special word.

Thanks Brian - I’m glad to be of service.

Yes Amar - you finally said something sensible, which I completely agree with, which is that yes m even me who knows nothing about it, knows more than you - which says it all really.

You’ve all missed the point entirely. Right from the start. Nada, zip, zero. Why did you even join the path in the first place?

You shoulda gone fishing or something ...

Ah yes the old “GIHF” chestnut.

It’s a favorite that gets wheeled out regularly to ridicule them ignorant Rssb folk.

Like virtually every other article on this website which maligns Rssb, the meaning has been willfully distorted. It’s a metaphor, a bit of shorthand to try describe the indescribable, or what some would consider a god, the ability to still ego and realize a higher universal self - our ultimate potential.

Look no further than your own disciple Amar who said to me above - ‘everyone has an ego’. By that rule, if amar ever came across someone with no ego, such a person would be superhuman to amar, a veritable god.

I think it’s possible that a very few rare individuals have learnt the path of no-ego and reached enlightenment. We see it from everyday behavior - the nicest ppl are often those with the smallest ego.

So if you extrapolate further, and somehow learn a method of eliminating ego all together, who is to say you cannot become a ‘god’ and reach a level of consciousness that no human with an ego ever could?

Georgy, I guess you don't make mistakes. You also don't read carefully. It's not just me saying it, others have said the same thing. Read, comprehend, then respond.

If you haven't been to a satsang, never met anyone from RSSB, then you don't know more than me.

It's like saying Georgy went on a blog about Hinduism and now knows more about it than every other person out there. Nice try. Go back to your satsangi buddies and come back with something more eloquent. Don't know why you're even here speaking about something you know nothing about. But, as Brian wrote above, keep at it. Makes for fun reading, and makes the day go quicker.

Georgy, all joking aside, I think it would be a hell of a fun afternoon having some samosas and cha with you and having a chat. I'm having some samosas right now actually. Yummy!

Amar,

On being ‘special’, I’m referring directly to your current master (Baba Hinesey Ji of the clan Sri Atheist) article above. You should read it and I quote straight from your guru’s pen:

“Instantly I thought to myself, “I’m special. I’m unique. I’ve got a spiritual practice known to only a few.””

Too much ego from your baba. So he cannot become a true baba.

Georgy, if you'd bothered to click on the link I shared in this post, you'd get the full story of what I said back in 2005. But that would take some work on your part, and I know you just like to make uninformed comments. But here's a passage to whet your appetite for my humility, and why I feel so much more relaxed and ego-less than when I was a member of RSSB.
--------------------
My believing now is centered around the notion of pressure. This isn’t something I believe in as much as I feel. I no longer like the feeling of being inflated more highly than the surrounding world. It takes too much effort to keep my ego-pump running all of the time.

Once I read on the Internet how members of my spiritual group, Radha Soami Satsang Beas, considered themselves Technicolor people in a black and white world. That’s a telling and accurate image. It is true for virtually all types of religious people, though, not just a few.

Yep you cannot best samoosas, actually maybe you can, a garlic naan is the nuts. You seem to know something about food but nothing about your cultural wisdom traditions - never mind, maybe next time around.

In regard to spiritual faith..

Maybe a little delusion is preferable to outright despair.

Maybe feeling a little superior in the movie theater line is better than having to face the Abyss and to search for something, anything that makes sense, to provide an anchor in the face of the terror of death and eternal nothingness...the slow degradation of aging and disease until the last breath is taken probably in agony and maybe alone.

If only we could recognize the Consciousness in which all this appears.

Nice to see you Tucson.
Insightful as always

Ah, a non-Indian telling an Indian that he knows nothing about my cultural wisdom traditions. How presumptive of you Georgy! You almost hurt my feelings.

But I can't take anything you write seriously. I know and understand 3 Indian languages. I've read Sar Bachan in it's original Hindi, both RSSB and Dayal Bagh texts. I've met personally 4 different Sant Mat masters and asked questions face to face with 3 of them. I did all this before I got initiated.

I'm not bragging, or conceited about it, but you suggest otherwise, so there you go. Knowledge is taking everything in from all sides, all perspectives that you're interested in.

Georgy, what religion or path do you follow and what benefits or way of life speaks to you. Help us understand where you're coming from.

Cheers!

Hi Tucson, how is following in ignorance more helpful than searching within yourself. Having false hope?

Who's to say that everyone is going suffer painfully during death. Everyone dies alone. Whatever the brain throws at us when it is shutting down, depends on our preconditioning. That's my opinion of course.

So it's a choice everyone makes, whether they choose to follow a certain way of life or not follow anything. Just as I don't need to justify my way of life, neither does anyone else.

It really used to piss me off when someone would denounce following a guru, some of my extended relatives, who don't believe in Sant Mat, would make comments and it just wouldn't enter my consciousness, that I should ask why, what is it about this that doesn't sound right to you? I just used to tune it out. That was my arrogance coming thru. I knew better, and they weren't enlightened enough to know it. Or my parents would say don't worry, they'll come to the path eventually...

"how is following in ignorance more helpful than searching within yourself. Having false hope?"

Searching for what? What is there to find?

Believing in things gives psychological relief to a lot of people. It can be a great tool.

Hi Jesse. So if it doesn't matter what you believe in, then believe that your neighbor's dog will impart his wisdom at the moment you die. Whether you believe that or in a guru it shouldn't matter then. If that's what you're implying. If you have to believe in anything whether it's your neighbor's dog or a guru it gives you psychological relief. It shoudn't matter right?

So what's the point in all of this? If I believe that there is a higher Self that I need to connect with, however I choose to do it, then that's what I believe and what will give me my psychological relief.

Or is it that you don't think there is anything inside us that needs to be connected with? If so, that's your opinion but it may provide that psychological relief others need.

Or Brian, as an atheist, may believe and have come to terms that he will go into nothingness because that's where he came come from. Either way, it's a valid point of view. That maybprovude him with the psychological relief he needs.

‘Maybe feeling a little superior in the movie theater line is better than having to face the Abyss and to search for something, anything that makes sense, to provide an anchor in the face of the terror of death and eternal nothingness’
— nothing like having something to look forward to! :-)

The rationale for most religions, faiths and activity of the human race! Faced with that what can humans do? Grab onto something that helps ease the pain, gives us hope….
Our whole life and way of living is governed by a belief that we are a separate entity, striving, progressing, trying to get somewhere. We’re not only waiting in line to watch the movie, we think we are the movie.

‘If only we could recognize the Consciousness in which all this appears’.

One way of making sense of all this. Certainly reduces any sense of specialness imo.
Question is - who is it that recognises said consciousness. It certainly is not a separated ‘entity’. The realisation/recognition that we are more like a ‘body within consciousness’ rather than ‘consciousness within a body’ is largely at odds with many religious beliefs and world-views, certainly not the standard dogma presented by the likes of RSSB. This ‘state’ however, can be experienced by ‘something’. This something unfolds as the sense of a separated entity lessens. I guess one word for it is awareness. That’s my take on it.
BFN

Nothing wrong with seeking self empowerment, independence and Truth.

"Ask yourself what is really important, and then have the wisdom and courage to build your life around your answer."

How easy it is to become addicted to something! This "more than a blog" along with the comments is better than TV.

All the more proof, it is all in the mind. Religion is an addiction, is it not then? Just as Sant Mat is. Reliance on a " Master" is too, is it not?

Is it not true then, to detach from an addiction is to attach to the emptiness of nothing?

For at the end of the day and the night, nothing literally really matters. Because everything dies and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Die to live? Why? Live now the best and kindest life you can. Enjoy the experience. We make the choices as to how we wish to treat our own being and that of all other beings.

I do not understand how my consciousness functions fully. Am I really meant to? All heavenly bodies have their own individual consciousness for they are separate identities within ( as scientists say) an ever expanding universe. I live within the consciousness of my planet, and the culture I was born into within that planet.

As I said earlier, how is it possible to be able to "see" my world, as long as I am "in" it?

Nothing really matters for no thing is independent of its own being.

If mind can attach and detach itself to anything at any given time, then how fickle is that? All the more proof to me, that reality is just totally empty.

Everything we see in this physical universe comes and goes. Egos arise and subside. The sun rises and sets. It all does not really matter in the grand scheme of things, for what will be will be. And what does, "Does it all matter?" really mean anyway?( When you analyse matter).

Tim wrote: Question is - who is it that recognises said consciousness.

Consciousness recognizes itself. There is no 'who' there. There is no 'other'. Anytime there is a "who' consciousness is lost in its own dream. It obscures itself in manifestation in an eternal game of hide and seek. It is both the seeker and the sought. Sometimes it awakens in this dream and recognizes itself, but even if it doesn't, it still is itself. There is no inside or outside of Consciousness or anything other than it. The idea of 'me' is a concept within it, but as such, 'me' is a phantom. The body-mind is an appearance within it. Waves arise on the ocean and merge back into it but the whole time there was no difference in substance between the wave and the ocean. Basic stuff. Been said for ages. Buddha, many others.

Tinke wrote: "Nothing really matters for no thing is independent of its own being"

--Here you are on to something. Go into that. As Itself, as Consciousness, in this moment, which is all there is, there is no mattering or not mattering. There is just being.

There cannot be self or other because there is no self that is not other or any other that is not self.


Amar

If you been to so many Q&A sessions, why don’t put your fraud accusations to the guru in Petaluma in July?

If you and the other CoC congregation are really interested in the truth, and getting it straight from the horse’s mouth (not from the Minty Mint), why don’t you all go to the Q&A in Petaluma end of July and ask GSD directly to his face, why he stole all that dosh, and how come the Indian government officials let him out of India to give satsang in Hong Kong Singapore USA and UK when he was supposed to be under house arrest according to the congregation of the churchlessness (atheists) cult. 

Then you guys can actually report back to the rest of the CoC with the direct unequivocal response. 

Dr Eugene Genetics:
The Seeming Paradox;
We have to free ourselves of our false beliefs before this freedom of false beliefs can happen.
However much we either control or are controlled by our Ego, a little delusion is preferable to outright despair, once this aspiring spiritual axiom is grasped dynamically.

Instantly I’m special. I’m unique. I’ve got a spiritual practice known to only a few. Therefore forevermore you don't make mistakes.

In time You also don't read carefully as a horrible example for others.
But you can take heart in your new non Egoic brain mind that Your life definitely isn't being wasted. Your comments are a marvelous example
or the path will never advance spiritually.

It doesn't matter what your neighbor's dog will impart in their wisdom

As the Mighty Guru said at the end of every discourse:
Yep you cannot best samoosas.

Yep, you sure can’t.

Georgy, I never said he's under house arrest. He could be if things progress badly with the repayments, but he's not yet, and maybe won't be. Have to wait and see.

As far as going to Petaluma and asking him, what do you think he's going to say? He's going to spend his time explaining why he did what he did and spill the beans on his arrangement with the Singh brothers? Seriously doubt it. He'll probably say it's up to you to believe what you want to believe.

Again, please read the posts before making a comment on them. Maybe you can go ask him why he did it and come back and explain to us. If we all ask at different venues, we can come back and compare notes!

Georgy wrote: "Some ppl have more of an ego than others - some think they are better and special - but that’s precisely what the guru is trying to help you overcome. The Nazis also thought they were special, as have most of the biggest c**nts in history, that’s the one thing they all have in common."

The Masters teach that they have come to bring certain souls back to Sach Khand. Not everyone; only those who are tired of this world and ready to go home. That means that initiates are separate from the rest of humanity. They are special because everyone else is still happy stuck in the cycle of re-birth, but the initiate has this realization that there is a better world and they know the Way.

You can find this statement over and over in Sant Mat. So the idea of being special and chosen is not due to egotism. It is part of the teachings of Sant Mat. It actually plays on that person's ego.

What spirituality and religion is selling is self-worth and belonging. As social animals, we all need that. The problem with most paths is that they start with the premise that you are somehow inferior and alienated. You need to believe something, do something, or know something in order to become worthy. Religious leaders and spiritual teachers play to the most vulnerable in our society because of their backgrounds-- people who already feel like nobody cares and nothing they do matters.

And the "worst c*nts in history"-- authoritarian regimes-- all played that game. The Dear Leader is perfect and beyond reproach, to be worshiped, loved, feared. They gave everything to the party and the movement, and so should you.

Self-interest gets put down a lot in spiritual circles, but I think we all are running on it-- even the most altruistic. It feels good to help others; there is this idea that you are a good person. People who suggest you eradicate your ego only see that as a better way you can serve their interests. If you follow self-interest far enough, though, you see that we are all interdependent on each other. So then acting in a way that only serves you and harms others isn't in your best interest. "A rising tide lifts all ships."

And when He passes
Each one He passes
Goes aaah

How can I tell Him I love Him
The Guru from Petaluma
Etc....

Amar,

Why would I want to confront him?

I’m not the one making all sorts of accusations that he is guilty - you guys are. What’s the phrase that Dungeness keeps quoting Spence on “pay your bills dude” - well I’m saying at least have the gumption to face the guy you are accusing square in the face that you are trying to hang.

Then you can come back and let us all know if the Minty Mint or the Punjabi Enqirer were right all along.

Ned,

that’s a more interesting interpretation. But to my mind those ppl or souls who are actually special do not feel that they are special. In other words, if there are any precious souls who attain no-ego consciousness are precisely the individuals who don’t think they are special to begin with and even after attaining such a state.

As to the statement that everyone has an ego, my own frame of reference agrees with that - but I may be wrong. Everything in the natural would would seem to follow this rule, even phenotypic altruism can be explained from the viewpoint of the selfish gene. Yet humans have a range of emotions that drastically broader than any other animal and some humans are more selfless than others. Certain mothers would not think twice about dying for their children - which goes every single natural selfish instinct. And there are ppl who are only interested in helping others, not for recognition sake, just to help others. So I’m not sure everyone actually does have an ego and their are certainly ppl with far smaller egos than others, and who knows - perhaps the pinnacle or perfection or humanity is realizing our high no-ego consciousness that only a very few ever do. I think that is unlikely but possible.

But all of that is from the western perspective (of me, you and Amar) - perhaps we have simply never come into contact or recognized a GiHF - who I suspect are incredibly rare.

Georgy, the High Court of Delhi has determined that Gurinder failed to pay his debts and must have his assets frozen prior to being garnished. This is an undeniable fact. So there’s no need for anyone to ask Gurinder about this. If you consider being someone who doesn’t pay their debts to be a sign of divinity, you have a very strange view of God.

Far as I know the court has frozen assets of a great number of individuals, one of those is GSD. I presume this simply means that further investigation is needed.

I don’t have a view on what god is, but if it’s someone who has no ego, and can access a state of consciousness that is in union with fundamental reality, then I suspect this is about as close to a ‘god’ as you can get. But no I don’t believe in a god that looks like charlton Heston and lives in the clouds if that’s what you mean.

"But all of that is from the western perspective (of me, you and Amar) - perhaps we have simply never come into contact or recognized a GiHF - who I suspect are incredibly rare."

Do you think westerners are innately less spiritual or something? Does "Amar" sound like a "western" name to you?
What's western about any of this, Georgy? Classical Indian texts are often in the form of dialogue and debate just like the western stuff. Even relatively modern texts like the Guru Granth Sahib contain debate form in Sidh Ghost and a few other places. Worshiping any guy with access to a printing press isn't "eastern."

You could even make the case that GIHF is a very western influenced thing since it wasn't hugely influential in India until the whole bhakti movement started poisoning the religions. And I wouldn't doubt that the case is being made by someone that those ideas about saviors and godmen started creeping in more and more with Christianity.

You're a sly colonialist, Georgy.

I’m lumping my views in with amar and Tim and you and most of the CoC exes on this site, who i suspect have a more skeptical western view of things, probably having been brought up in more secular countries - tho if you don’t think this generalization is accurate then please tell me how you feel I’m wrong.

I’m wondering if ppl brought up in a different , more devotional and respectful background, might have a different take on things.

But anyway I note you pride yourself on being intelligent and prickly - so please knock yourself out. Call me Lord Kitchener if it appeals to you.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel special, if we go about it the right way.

First, this is an amazing and special, miraculous creation. That the stars and the planets exist, the amazing variety of creatures, and their ability to think and feel and respond. Our own ability to connect with each other, and to have a sense of awe and wonder at the immensity of creation, and our tiny place in it.

These are all special things. Looking out over ten lovely acres at sunset as the sky turns through a rainbow of colors.

The sound of the wind on a cool sunset night.

There is more than we can take in. It's a treasure chest.

To be a part of that miracle of miracles of life.

To love that we exist, to be thankful for it and always seeking to live in that connection.

That's special. We get behind in being special, we lose ground when we lose that connection. It doesn't require any thought at all.

But we can participate in it also. We can create. Create art, design, literature, invention, solutions. We can participate in creation and creativity.

That's also special.

We can help, we can serve. We can heal.

The only problem is losing touch with helping, creating, serving.

It's like the pen stopping to admire itself. The pen was just an instrument in the process of creation.

That wanting to be special as an individual person is meaningless. We are a particle of it all, nearly infinitely miniscule and inconsequential . In the act of creating, serving, helping we do our part, small as it is. And in that participation in the larger process that connects us all, we participate in what is special. We are part of something larger, even infinite.

So rather than focus on that static and illusory notion of what we are, let us participate in something worthy and find our wholeness in that acting with and part of. Let's just do our best to find something worthy of our time.

Hey tucson - nicely put as usual. Basic stuff indeed, but it takes many of us a long time to start ‘getting it’.

777 - cool quote especially the ‘we let go the notions of an identity we have never been’. I like the sense and positivity of this.
You lost me again when you started going on about past incarnations etc.

A very good day/evening to all the peeps.

You can be brought up in a more devotional and respectful background anywhere in the world. There are more crazy religious zealots in the Eastern world than there are in West.

That background you mention is provisional on your upbringing, not necessarily on the country you're born. I find the more religious you are, the more radical your thoughts are, and intolerance breeds. Anti abortion, anti gay, white power beliefs, freedom to carry fire arms. It permeates everything. Some Americans feel their Constitution is right up there with the Bible...

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"Far as I know the court has frozen assets of a great number of individuals, one of those is GSD. I presume this simply means that further investigation is needed."

You're really reaching here. You presume wrong..

The high court of India deliberated, informed by several audits.

They made their judgment. Everyone on that list is guilty and responsible for exactly what they owe, including interest, down to last rupee. And that includes the thousands of crore debt the court assigned to Gurinder and his family. Their assets are frozen for one reason. They are seriously delinquent in payment.

Sometimes it's hard for people who have their head up Gurinder's ass so high as you do that they can't read a court order.

But that's OK, Georgy. You can always pull your head out, which, by the way, would make any person, including Baba Ji, at least relieved if not happy.

Take a good cleansing shower, and read the high court of India 's statement again... Slowly....


Hi Georgy

You wrote
"And there are ppl who are only interested in helping others, not for recognition sake, just to help others."

You should spend more time with them.

"Freedom to carry firearms."

God forbid people defend themselves! So disgusting.

Oddly enough I've met pretty fundamenalist Sikhs who've fallen prey to this non-thinking even though their religion requires them to be armed and ready to fight and die at all times.

What you think are your opinions aren't actually yours. You're reciting the most powerful media companies in the world verbatim.

We used to call it propaganda when the state directly disseminated information. Now that there's a nexus of info power that is shared by the state and corporations working together we call it "news."


Georgy, You wrote
"And there are ppl who are only interested in helping others, not for recognition sake, just to help others."

You should spend more time with them.

Gosh, Spence Ji, how edifying your gratuitous slights are!

Hm, maybe a little tough love is needed once in a while to
orient the unenlightened to "facts" and to the necessity for
righteous action though, eh.

How special ya must feel ! Did you absorb this wisdom from
one of the inner "fire side" chats? Or, is it just the rough and
tumble of slipping back down to earth... to the dreary role
you must play on the lower plane?,

Anyway, I'm surprised. It's such a stark contrast to the often
beautiful messages you impart.

Hi Spence, you say "There's nothing wrong with wanting to feel special, if we go about it the right way."
I really enjoyed your comment on this thread 23 June 12:31pm, just read through it again. Very positive.

Why is it so difficult to remain positive? We all continue to be either finding fault and judging or then the opposite, being kind and thoughtful. Just a world of duality and we can't help ourselves I suppose.

Not all of us are arrogant and full of ego when we believe that we have been chosen. Some of us are fooled very easily in the beginning. I suffered from an inferiority complex when I was young so of course it was wonderful to feel like I was actually going to be saved from this world of suffering.

Hi Jen
You asked
"Why is it so difficult to remain positive? We all continue to be either finding fault and judging or then the opposite, being kind and thoughtful. Just a world of duality and we can't help ourselves I suppose."

Yes, you've captured my own personnel dilemma in your comments.

You wrote
" I suffered from an inferiority complex when I was young so of course it was wonderful to feel like I was actually going to be saved from this world of suffering. "

Yes, similar with me. Sometimes I'm in with a group of people and a wave of inferiority washes over me, now at 62 years even. It happens less often but it still happens. I just want to withdraw into meditation. And then I think I've wasted so much of my life this way. But I have my meditation, so there is a purpose to everything.

We find or build our purpose. Religion is like buying purpose at a mall, off the rack. But when we see the sweat shop enslavement and exploitation behind those cool clothes, like the reality behind the Guru business, we just want to make our own way.

"Why is it so difficult to remain positive? "

Why is the attempt at forcing positivity on the world so pervasive? Why can't we just be negative if we want to, or if negativity is natural for us? Most of the problems associated with negativity result from all the failed attempts at trying to make everyone be happy all the time. It's causing schizophrenia everywhere. Everyone attacks negativity and negative people instead of seeing it and them for what they are. Just things like every other thing.

Why do we strive so hard to achieve one side of duality? If duality itself is a problem then both poles are wrong and positivity and negativity are equal.

Jesse, you hit the f'ng nail on the head.

Everyone is telling us you have to be happy, you have to be number one or you're a failure. Sets up a scenario for serious depression and a host of mental disorders. Be happy in your own efforts and take care of your health and family members.

Trying to be something you are not to satisfy society's skewed expectations is very unhealthy. Negativity, hate, criticism: all have their place and force us to discriminate the bullshit from the reality. Doesn't always sound nice and proper, but I don't give a shit. That's their problem.


"Why is it so difficult to remain positive? We all continue to be either finding fault and judging or then the opposite, being kind and thoughtful. Just a world of duality and we can't help ourselves I suppose."

Yes, you've captured my own personnel dilemma in your comments.

Jen, Spence, thanks for the exchange.

As for my snarky comment, it reflects how much fear is just beneath the
surface. I wasn't listening well enough.

Hi guys, your comments are interesting, especially as I enjoy all the different points of view.

Its quite strange that after I posted my comment I started to feel quite anxious which is annoying and I'm thinking about how to stop this existential angst and started looking up some quotes.

Found this from Zen Thinking: "Be still. Allow yourself some time to decompress and to absorb the stillness that can be found within every moment, no matter where you are. It's always within you. In fact, this stillness IS you. This is your true Self. It's an expansive spaciousness imbued with nothing but peace, love and happiness - that's waiting to be self-realised."

Now I am watching on youtube a discussion on the Rubin Report with Eckhart Tolle talking about existential anxiety and how he had a realisation of a dimension of consciousness within himself that was deeper than thinking, an awareness and presence, a dimension that transcends thinking, the essence of Zen. Finding one's own identity.

If you are interested, this is the youtube, its called: "The Essence of Mindfulness & ALL Spirituality / Eckhart Tolle / Rubin Report".

"Jen | June 23, 2019 at 9:43 PM"

Fake Zen. Fake Jen?

Hi Zen Master Jen
You wrote
"Found this from Zen Thinking: "Be still. Allow yourself some time to decompress and to absorb the stillness that can be found within every moment, no matter where you are. It's always within you. In fact, this stillness IS you. This is your true Self. It's an expansive spaciousness imbued with nothing but peace, love and happiness - that's waiting to be self-realised."

" Now I am watching on youtube a discussion on the Rubin Report with Eckhart Tolle talking about existential anxiety and how he had a realisation of a dimension of consciousness within himself that was deeper than thinking, an awareness and presence, a dimension that transcends thinking, the essence of Zen. Finding one's own identity."

This is Zen. The silence, the One-ness, the wordless and full moment.

It feeds us, so why not submit to it often?

Amar,
Totally relate to what you are saying...its refreshing to read your posts. And something in there is helping me make my peace with the disappointment with the guru and the path.

A nice bit of Zen, Jen

I watched this a while back and nodded my head:https://youtu.be/FVu6yU2plAo.

In the talk Eckhart Tolle says one can “Observe reincarnation in yourself many times during the day when you identify with a thought, because the moment you completely identify with a thought you as the consciousness have forgotten your essential nature”

Simplifies things quite well imo.

Hi Ocillator, I do find meditation relaxing and pleasant. I will continue with that. What I find as I move along now, is that instead of focusing my emotions and love towards a guru or someone else, I bring it inwards and I feel stronger with that. I feel more empowered and oddly, more centered.

It's an experiment for me and constantly changing, discovering more things about me as I go along. I don't think I will ever have it figured out.

So glad you found some benefit to things commented here.

Hi anami, you say:

"Fake Zen. Fake Jen?"

I no longer see myself as a RSSB satsangi. I'm not a buddhist but I do love Zen and look up quotes everyday which resonate with me. I also like Taoism and find quotes that help my solitary practice. Be careful with your thoughts, words and actions.

"Watch your thoughts; they become words;
Watch your words; they become actions;
Watch your actions; they become habit.
Watch your habits; they become character;
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny,"

Lao Tzu

I'm sorry, Jen. No insult intended. The phrasing seemed odd in places, and I thought someone was impersonating you!

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