RSSB guru identified as beneficiary of fraudulent funds

As has been evident to those of us who have been following the saga of the Singh brothers and Gurinder Singh Dhillon (the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas), the trail of money that was fraudulently siphoned out of public companies is leading right to Dhillon's pockets.

Here's a Business Today story that someone told me about today. It's short, so I've copied it in below. I couldn't resist boldfacing the parts that point to Dhillon's legal culpability in this financial mess. 

I've been wondering how long it would take until investigators in India would focus on the ultimate beneficiaries of the massive amount of money (about $332 million) this story says was diverted from Religare.

It's been widely reported that the Dhillon family used that money to invest in real estate deals that went bad, but so far the focus has been on Malvinder and Shivinder Singh, Sunil Godhwani, and others who orchestrated the fraudulent loans that ended up in shell companies controlled by Gurinder Singh Dhillon, his family, and close associates.

So it's good to see that Sheetal Talwar and his attorneys are telling SEBI, the Securities and Exchange Board of India, that the RSSB guru was the beneficiary of most of the illegally diverted $332 million, which means, almost certainly, that Dhillon also was part of the conspiracy to siphon off those funds from Religare.

Read on.

NRI film producer Sheetal Vinod Talwar has submitted to Sebi that Radha Soami Satsang chief Gurinder Singh Dhillon and his family allegedly benefited the most from Religare's Rs 2,300 crore fund diversion. Sebi's forensic audit via probe agency MSA Probe Consulting had identified diversion worth Rs 2,315.09 crore.

Talwar's Vistaar Entertainment and Religare Enterprises were partners in India's first SEBI-registered film fund - Vistaar Religare. Earlier, in March, Talwar had approached the Economic Offences Wing of Mumbai alleging he was threatened with life after his lawyers pursued repayment of $1.25 million paid supposedly towards Dhillon's treatment abroad.

Talwar has told Sebi that even though its Religare investigation via forensic audit firm MSA concluded fund diversion and large scale irregularities and illegalities, the probe did not lift the corporate veil to disclose the ultimate beneficiaries of the diversion.

Advocates & Solicitors Kartikeya & Associates-representing Talwar-have submitted to Sebi on 29 May, 2019 that, "...the persons who have benefitted the most and/or on whose instance the said illegalities and irregularities were and/or have been committed have yet not been identified. Please note that the persons and/or the shadow promoters of REL, RFL and their other group companies is one Gurinder Singh Dhillon (GSD/Babaji) and his family".

Sebi's original investigation against alleged fund diversion at Religare Enterprises & Religare Finvest was triggered by Talwar's primary complaint to RBI (later forwarded to Sebi) dated 12 April, 2017. In his complaint, Talwar had informed RBI about alleged "irregularities and illegalities committed by the promoters and/or board of directors" of the two companies. RBI forwarded the complaint to Sebi which ordered the probe via MSA.

Talwar's complaint to Sebi has also levelled a grave charge of a serious conflict of interest among Religare's then board  members. "...the fact that the companies shared common directors to the GSD family as well as were all run by GSD followers eg. Just a quick review would point to the fact that during the diversion of funds, Vitoba, Platinum and Devera entities to which fund were diverted would reveal that Yuvraj Narain Gorwaney alias Mithu is on the board of these companies-not only is Yuvraj...the secretary of RSSB, he also sits on the board of Logos Holding along with GSD and Shabnam Dhillon. Many such associations exist between the entities named and GSD family."

Talwar is a National Film Award winning global film producer and angel investor. His first feature film 'Dharm' secured the National Film Award. It premiered at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival. Talwar has produced films such as 'Rann' starring Amitabh Bachchan, 'Mausam' with Shahid Kapoor, 'Rakta Charitra' starring Surya. Among international films, he produced 'The Joneses' starring Demi Moore, the Martin Freeman starrer 'The Eichmann Show', 'Romans' starring Orlando Bloom.

Comments

[Jesse]

"As has been evident to those of us who have been following the saga..."

Only to those of us who've taken our heads out of the sand and not hysterically sought strange irrational defenses and impossibly high bars to clear before admitting that the dude holding the money is in fact the dude holding the money.

[Osho Robbins]

More evidence but not proof.
The believers will still believe.
Because they have their whole spiritual future at stake. Nobody can afford to risk their secured place in sach khand.

And they claim to love their master too. And lovers don’t give up easily.
As in this bulleh shah Kalaam

https://youtu.be/_nqNX6d7MFg

A man hired a detective to spy on his wife who he suspected of having an affair.
The detective reported back;
She went home with another man from a night club.
I saw the bedroom light turn on
The curtains were drawn and I saw the silhouette of a man and a woman in bed.
I saw them embrace then the lights went out.
“Damn it” said the husband
“We still don’t know for sure
The damn lights went out and we don’t know what happened next. I have my doubts”

[Amar]

The Article says: "Advocates & Solicitors Kartikeya & Associates-representing Talwar-have submitted to Sebi on 29 May, 2019 that, "...the persons who have benefitted the most and/or on whose instance the said illegalities and irregularities were and/or have been committed have yet not been identified. Please note that the persons and/or the shadow promoters of REL, RFL and their other group companies is one Gurinder Singh Dhillon (GSD/Babaji) and his family".

Looks like the even auditors are pointing their fingers at GSD and his family. Let's see if the authorities take the lead and pursue this.

In an Economic Times article from yesterday, they wrote "The three investors have appointed Kotak Mahindra Capital as the merchant banker for the deal, the people said. Two other investors — Axis Bank (5.5%) and the family of Gurinder Singh Dhillon of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (5%) — may exit the diagnostics company if they get the same terms as the buyers of the three PE firms’ stakes, the person said. “However, it’s very unlikely that IHH would facilitate the exit of these two investors,” said one person."

Looks like GSD is trying to sell off shares to create capital to pay off debts. Supreme Court has not allowed any funds to transfer out, so have to see what transpires with this also.

Read more at:
"https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/pe-firms-ny-jacob-ballas-others-start-process-to-sell-31-5-in-srl/articleshow/69682165.cms

[manjit]

Hey Osho - how's it going brother? :)

You wrote: "More evidence but not proof."

Sure, sure, no proof of illegality just yet, perhaps. But 100% incontrovertible proof that he is nothing at all like what a "Pooran Sant Satguru Huzur Maharaj" should be, right? I'll be honest, there's too many criminal cases in the world for me to really be interested in Gurinder's alleged criminality, but what does/should concern me/ALL of us is his alleged status as the sole saviour of souls in the entire multi-verse. Annnd I think the Jury's out on that one, bro :)

Though to be fair, there is more evidence of Gurinder's criminality than there is that any human being who has ever existed is literally a ""Pooran Sant Satguru Huzur Maharaj" as defined by RS dogma, so swings and roundabouts as to where we place our emphasis on evidence, I suppose.....

Osho: "The believers will still believe. "

Of course, such is human nature. So much fun isn't it? :)

Give us a shout/whatsapp sometime!! Cheers :)

[Spence Tepper]

Wide reaching medical billing fraud at Fortis when under Shivinder's leadership

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/serious-fraud-office-to-probe-fortis-religare-for-alleged-irregularities/article22795515.ece

You can take Shivinder out of Ranbaxy but you can't take Ranbaxy out of Shivinder.

[Spence Tepper]

Oops here is the correct link....

HomeCity
Religare Insurance booked for fake claim

Umesh R Yadav
Umesh R Yadav, DH News Service, Bengaluru,
JUN 07 2019, 00:02AM IST UPDATED: JUN 07 2019, 00:04AM IST

The accused showed that Rathna Bai had undergone medical treatment at Diya Healthcare, with documents attested by the doctors there. Even Bai’s signature was forged. (Image for representation)

A 59-year-old woman filed a complaint against Anuj Gulati, MD and CEO of Religare Health Insurance, Vijay Bhaskar, Religare’s Bengaluru manager and 13 others including doctors at Diya Healthcare, for producing fake medical bills on her insurance policy and claiming it without her knowledge.

Rathna Bai, a resident of Vyalikaval, alleged in her complaint that the accused forged medical certificates of her health checkup and despite knowing they are fake, Dr Vijay S, product head of Religare, submitted them to the insurance ombudsman in Bengaluru in June, 2018.

“When I bought a health insurance policy from Religare in 2014, I was not asked to undergo a health check up. I did not undergo treatment. But Dr Vijay along with Ramnique Sachar, corporate manager, Prashanth Singh, legal manager and Khushpreet Singh, head of claims medical, all from Religare, have helped create fake documents and submitted the same to the insurance ombudsman,” Rathna Bai said in the complaint."

https://www.deccanherald.com/amp/city/religare-insurance-booked-for-fake-claim-738589.html

[Spence Tepper]

"Malvinder and Shivinder Singh exit Religare Health Insurance
Religare Enterprises Limited has entered into a definitive agreement with a group of investors led by True North to sell its entire 80 percent stake in Religare Health Insurance Company Limited"

http://www.forbesindia.com/article/special/malvinder-and-shivinder-singh-exit-religare-health-insurance/46623/1

They exited in 2017.The Fraud happened in 2014 when they were the owners.

[manjit]

A rather remarkable thought just occurred to me.

Perhaps I'm misreading the situation, but it seems to me that many RSSB followers or, errm, "sympathisers" (?) on this blog are waiting for the courts and judges to adjudicate on whether or not Gurinder is a legitimate Pooran Sant Satguru Maharaj Baba Huzur Ji Maharaj from the 2,327 trillionth region, as defined by the RS dogma?

I'm not entirely sure that's their remit, folks?....

[zenjen]

Middle of the road attitude:

Question: Is Gurinder a fraud?

Answer: I really don't care because its none of my business and I leave it to the Court to decide.

Question: Is the path of Sant Mat worth following?

Answer: Being a vegetarian, not drinking alcohol or taking mind altering drugs, living a moral lifestyle and practicing meditation is an excellent way to advance spiritually. So, yes the four principles are definitely worth following.

Question: Is it important to have a guru or Master as an example?

Answer: We can learn from many spiritual and knowledgable people without putting them on a pedestal.

Question: How easy is it to follow a spiritual path without a guru?

Answer: Its quite simple. Become an observer of self, watching one's own actions and thoughts and behaviour constantly and also its important to try to be the watcher of everything that arises in the world without becoming too entangled and also being as kind and caring as possible.

Just my thoughts...

[Fairy Gyani]

Further proof by example ( if in fact , all the publications be true ) that one can have many "gurus" in one's life to teach and show a better way of living (as said by ZenJen above), but at the end of the day the only MASTER of your life is you! Choose to take the medicine or don't! A wise old sage once said, "Don't judge a philosophy by its disciples." Or the guru, as the case may be! Wise and thoughtful persons, as they progress on their chosen belief system paths will constantly change their points of view and understandings as they evolve in their practices. In the wider scheme of things, it's all over in a flash anyway, and I don't think the Shabd (This Uni- verse, we find ourselves in, or maybe think we are in) gives a dam!

[Dungeness]

Perhaps I'm misreading the situation, but it seems to me that many RSSB followers or, errm, "sympathisers" (?) on this blog are waiting for the courts and judges to adjudicate on whether or not Gurinder is a legitimate Pooran Sant Satguru Maharaj Baba Huzur Ji Maharaj from the 2,327 trillionth region, as defined by the RS dogma?

Manjit, Manjit... It's already been adjudicated in Kangaroo Court by
those brave enough to peek behind the velvet curtain. Ya know,
those who, faster than a speeding bullet, can see guilt or innocence.
Besides the truth is plastered all over the tabloids. Open and shut case.

GSD is a greedy , jet-setting land baron, a heartless destroyer of a
free school and hospital, a poisoner of African kids, a heretical
corrupter of RSSB dogma, a shadowy man who whispers death
threats galore, and undisputed criminal mastermind. Guilty, guilty
on all counts.

Sunny, Singh bro's, Shab, sons ... hapless dupes, linnocent pawns,
brainwashed zombies. Their cases will be dismissed with prejudice...
for now. We've got Mr. Big. The scaffold is in place. A scaffold one-
holer for the condemned is enough. We'll drill a few more holes just
in case.

[Hums]

Next one to be investigated should be Nirankari Mission as the entire family and the extended family are living off mission funds both in india and abroad

[Jesse]

"Perhaps I'm misreading the situation, but it seems to me that many RSSB followers or, errm, "sympathisers" (?) on this blog are waiting for the courts and judges to adjudicate on whether or not Gurinder is a legitimate Pooran Sant Satguru Maharaj Baba Huzur Ji Maharaj from the 2,327 trillionth region, as defined by the RS dogma?"

Good catch, Captain Obvious. Nothing gets by you.

Sadly, even if the courts do conclusively judge against Gurinder and convict him for everything he's ever been accused of, it won't stop him from being GOD. Ram Rahim Singh is still very engaged in Haryana politics from prison and also remains GOD of heaven and earth.

If any of you had any faith you'd know that GOD is still GOD even when he's making love to other dudes while in prison for murder and rape and whatever else.

[J]

If someone robs a bank to use that money with me in an investment deal, it doesn't necessarily mean the robbing of the bank was my idea.

The question remains whether Gurinder wholly orchestrated this affair (or was even aware of it, as he was undergoing cancer treatment), or whether his associates and relatives are responsible and did it to (likely) curry favor with the guru.

The people responsible for illegally taking the money out of the corporation to give to G's family need to explain why they did it. The answer to that question is of primary importance.

[Jesse]

The same people who need "masters" also need courts no matter how sufficient the already available evidence is ie Gurinder is a crook and RS in general is a stupid as hell cult who dishonestly translate books to make fools of its own believers, but wait until the court lords tell me so.

Seeking parents for your whole life to opine on your behalf, be they secret hidden amazonian shamans who randomly throw feces to prove enlightenment as we've heard about here, or RS grifters like Ishwar Puri who still wear those corny hats like they did in 80's Bollywood movies about Delhi, you never get to the promised land of perpetual nihilism and disbelief like I have. You're so addicted to authority that nothing can make you laugh at this world. You'll always be doe eyed and naive staring into space waiting for your dysfunctional mommy and daddy to tell you what to do and to punish you for no reason. You're broken people. Most of you who landed in religion land are totally broken.

By the way, I'm more advanced on the path of the masters than anyone has ever been. But I'm also super humble about it. That's why I've gone independent.

P.S.

Ishwar Puri lol. Look at that dude. Look at his face. Some weird hair growing out of the godforsaken nether regions of a listerine swilling bums unwashed decaying body has more spiritual authority than that frumpy bonehead. Get a suit that fits, guy. Like me. The real master, who wears the best clothes.

[Brian Hines]

J, the problem with your question is this:

The illegally siphoned money didn't go directly from Religare to the Dhillon family. In addition to the conspirators at Religare, the scheme involved shell companies that got the money as fraudulent loans, then sent the money back to Religare at specific times of the month in order to hide the transactions from auditors. Until the scheme collapsed when fraudulent loans couldn't be repaid.

So there were conspirators at the shell companies also. And as the Business Today story notes, the Dhillon family and their associates controlled the shell companies.

Thus your question is aimed at asking the Dhillon family and their associates why the Dhillon family and their associates passed money from fraudulent loans on to the Dhillon family and their associates.

My point is, the Dhillon family and their associates controlled the companies that sent hundreds of millions of dollars to the Dhillon family and their associates.

[RAVI BHARGAVA]

Spirituality is a completely different thing which can be experienced only by a sound meditation. The entire story reveals a conspiracy to defame the RSSB in order to extort some money. She may seek recovery of her amount through court of law if she spent. Courts r open for all

[Spence Tepper]

Hi J you write
"If someone robs a bank to use that money with me in an investment deal, it doesn't necessarily mean the robbing of the bank was my idea."

You went along with it, so does it really matter who started it?

A man's wife, two sons and their two cousins all collude to set up over a dozen shell companies so they can steal hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, the man, his wife and sons receive the lion's share of these stolen monies year after year.

Whose idea was it to start with?

Does it matter? The whole family went along with it year after year.

The man knew. The man offered one cousin the guruship if the other would cover up. Publicly the man said nothing. To the Law, the man said nothing.

The man took no action to stop it. The man made no effort to repay the money, and the man kept it secret year after year. And the man got richer. And the man said nothing.

Guilt is already there. Does it really matter where the idea originally came from? All participated in it, all kept the matter secret. All are guilty.

[Dungeness]

The man knew. The man offered one cousin the guruship if the other would cover up. Publicly the man said nothing. To the Law, the man said nothing.

There's validity to reporting these damning circumstances. But, then the morality
tale quickly devolves from a reasonable inference ("the whole family is guilty") to
unproven ones ( "the man knew/the man offered a guruship to a cousin").

Certainly, the family is morally and financially responsible for illegal loans. So they're
guilty to that extent. But no one "knows" who knew what and when. The adjudication
belongs in the court. Nor should an allegation of "selling a guruship" be presented as
fact to advance an agenda.

In overreaching, we become "guilty" of our own misdeeds.

[Kuljeet]

There are lot of things n suspections which only shows evidence, so evidence either right or wrong becoz a sharp mind person can make a true evidence but in actual its not true or right evidence . Talwar is not a spy or judge or God who's identify that is the GSD is true guru or fraud . He is a filmaker n easily know how to make stories which seems like real... if he gave any statement it not means this statement truth, so Mr. Talwar you have to prove it, because pointing the person is easy but proving is difficult, so work on it...i don't understand why people always looking for these shit things( to interfere with others life), do ur own work.. too much free for making bloody fake news...

[Reetika]

Church of church less is an ignorant person and all the people too who r talking that rssb is fraud

[Kaur]

Indian media and film makers are fake, lair and corrupted just like you Westerners who started this blog to spit your shrewdness on others forcibly.
I am surprised that why are you not dead yet? Heart attack should be best killer for you. We need to complaint about your blog that is used to spread hatredness of particular sect due to your narrow mindedness and evil heart

[kamal]

Respected sir,
On what basis you are trying to prove a spiritual master as a fraudulent person, Please sir we request you to attend the programs conducted by R.S.S.B to get the well clarity of the spiritual master ...the master has cleared himself that he is a just volunteer and he is trust member...to get the reality you attend just 7 days at BEAS...All is in white
Thanking you sir

[Mike England]

Dear zenjen
Question: Is it important to have a guru or Master as an example?
Answer: We can learn from many spiritual and knowledgable people without putting them on a pedestal.

Very well put.

Though one of my Sisyphean tasks is to put Dr Eugene Genetics on his pedestal each day. Due to His Ancient ness, he is unable to do this Himself.
Though now I think about, I think He is just being lazy.

[Mandeep kaur]

Rssb guru is good master in beas trusted me .my guru
best guru in punjab. radha soami gurinder singh dhillon wife is good women ilike you

[Spence Tepper]

Dungeness, the letter Baba Ji authored indicates he knew.
His reaction in Satsang when asked is proof he knew. And he knows. And he is doing nothing.

I get it though. To have a master is to place the locus of judgment in someone else's hands.

But there is a dangerous downside to doing this, which is that we do nothing because we aren't really, perfectly sure what's going on....and refuse to use our capacity to make a judgment. How far will we go telling ourselves we don't really know what's happening? To the Tenth level?

https://www.google.com/search?q=the+Tenth+level&oq=the+Tenth+level&aqs=chrome..69i57.4676j0j7&client=tablet-android-samsung&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

And the research this was based upon..

https://www.simplypsychology.org/milgram.html

Will we tell ourselves we can't be sure, while others suffer as a result? How long will we choose to be just bystanders in the crowd, expecting others to make decisions for us? Handing our responsibility to others, and protecting our own justification not to think, and not to act when real harm is being done?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/bystander-effect

[Spence Tepper]

https://explorable.com/bystander-apathy-experiment

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Kamal
I don't think we can do anything but see the facts that have been well documented. The Dhillon family and Baba Ji in particular were the recipients of hundreds of millions of dollars on fraudulent loans over more than a decade. Loans that were given in secret and which violated the law. These are proven facts.

Now after three independent audits (Deloite, and then Grant Thornton for Luthra and Luthra , and now the SEBI) , Fortis has asked the Securities and Exchange Board of India (SEBI) to arrest Malvinder, precisely because he and Shivinder robbed the company. And Malvinder has provided the SEBI with written documentation that he pleaded with Gurinder to acknowledge the debts and work to repay the loans but without response.

Then the new Religare board conducted their own audits. They concluded that the recipients of the loans, and that would include Baba Ji, actually knew about and participated in the fraud. The Religare board had filed an EOW, a complaint, with the serious crimes division of the Delhi police.

So where did Malvinder and Shivinder hide the stolen goods over all these years? Year after year they gave the stolen monies to Gurinder and Subnam, his wife, and the Dhillon family. To the total sum of several hundred million dollars.

For years Baba Ji, his wife and other members of his family took the stolen money and said nothing. In fact they participated in these robberies. by signing the loan documents that promised in writing they would repay them with interest. Every promise has been broken and no effort to repay has been made by Gurinder or any member of his family.

Does that reflect on someone's character? That is for each person to decide for themselves. It depends on one's standards of right and wrong. But it is only necessary at this point to acknowledge the facts, which fully justify legal investigation and action.

These were loans, signed by Baba Ji's wife, sons and other Gurinder associates, including leaders at RSSB, as the above article Brian has provided states, and not a penny has been repaid. And in particular the Fortis loans were made in secret without any collateral in violation of the law. And they are still remaining silent. Nothing paid back, no promises to do so.

These statements are not depictions of any person's character.

They are documented facts of one of the largest series of corporate robberies in India 's history.

Statements about the character of anyone are personal judgments. Not facts. We should not judge anyone.

But facts are important. When nearly a billion dollars have been stolen, naturally it is important to know who actually received that money.

To steal from other innocent parties and to accept hundreds of millions of dollars stolen from a healthcare system demands justice. To sign hundreds of millions of dollars worth of promissory notes in the form of loan documents to repay hundreds of millions in loans, and to keep signing new loans even when you haven't been paying off any of the others does raise a question of character. But what is important is the documented fact that this is what the Dhillon family was doing, year over year. The facts are very straightforward.

But the fact remains, and had been established by SEBI legally this was Fradulent. This includes efforts from the shell companies in concert with the Singhs to fictitiously report that the loans had been repaid when they actually had not: Money accepted by Dhillon family members,. This establishes this was fraud, repeatedly. Corporate robbery.

The evidence of Corporate fraud and falsification of financial documents has already been legally determined by the SEBI and the Supreme Court of India, and the companies are guilty. And Gurinder's family along with the Singhs, has benefited. And RSSB leaders still share directorships at those companies, most of which had been run by Shivinder.

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2018/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_40755.html

So who received these moneies as 'loans' gained through deceit and fraud, who also never repaid ?

Gurinder's family and associated RSSB leaders.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.htmlq

Now, let's do a little addition, shall we?

207 crore to Dhillon family (sons Gurkirat and Gurpreet)
287 crore to both Godhwani and the Dhillon family (Godhwani, Dhillon's chosen leader to help the Singhs, and his own family),
223 crore to the Dhillon family
152 crore to the Dhillon family
Total.... Hold on let me get out my HP 12C calculator.....

869 crore... Before interest...

Baba Ji, pay your debts.

[Jesse]

Spence, you just wrote about 1000 words of medium level difficulty English to someone who has never read 1000 words of any language in his entire life, doesn't speak basic English well, and thinks that blasting a comments section with various threats all at once while using variations of the same random Indian names is clever and that he's evading detection by doing so.

Consider your audience when communicating. You'd have more effectively got your point across to the semi literate kamal kaur deep jeet by simply saying "you're dumb. baba g is corrupt. shut up." His reaction would be identical, but at least he'd know what you were saying.

[Phil UK . -]

After hearing Mr Modi's climate change speech this afternoon
I'm so impressed

I really hope that BabaJi a la Robin Hood 'sleudered' our given 10M
from the gangster world
into 2 Billion
same time distanced the funds from the spoiling cousins

and is creating good for 2 million villages in India.

This is His Hobby, I believe
BBJ already helped India via Al Gore
with One Billion Patent Value,
given free to Mr.Modi by Elon Musks nephew

Quite the opposite of the Florida State
where it's almost forbidden to use Solar

All this makes my Day today

Phil UK

[Dungeness]

The letter Baba Ji authored indicates he knew.
His reaction in Satsang when asked is proof he knew. And he knows.
And he is doing nothing.

Oh, gosh, refresh my memory of this "smoking gun".

No wiggle room at all? This is an expert's prosecutorial judgment, eh.
Ya looked into his "lying eyes", waited for his sobbing confession, only
to get a telltale, damning silence and then "ya knew, ya knew".

Perhaps an online petition is warranted now... a plea to SEBI to initiate
an immediate indictment of the "Baba". Ya can point to his "reaction
at Satsang" to the scandal, how "he went silent". Paint for SEBI a portrait
of a guru gone rogue, his opulent lifestyle, the manifest greed. Mention
again those whispered death threats, those crude, demeaning remarks
to loving disciples, and, gasp... the telling of unholy jokes.

I get it though. To have a master is to place the locus of judgment in someone else's hands.
But there is a dangerous downside to doing this, which is that we do nothing because we aren't really, perfectly sure what's going on....and refuse to use our capacity to make a judgment. How far will we go telling ourselves we don't really know what's happening? To the Tenth level?

Yep, RSSB lays bleeding on the sidewalk... knifed through the heart like
poor Kitty Genovesee. We can't remain "guilty bystanders" like others.

We can't leave it to 12 dumb jurors. We gotta tell the police what we
know about the "Baba"... what a disappointing fraud he is. How he
broke our hearts. trashed the scriptures, shocked our sensibilities. He's a
devil, satan incarnate. Get a rope!

[Georgy Porgy]

Yup if these conspiracy theorists think he’s guilty - you know the guy is totally innocent and will go scot-free.

If this lot of whackos believes something to be true , you can bet your house on it being false

[Brian Hines]

Georgy Porgy, you appear to disagree with what was reported in the Business Today story. I'm curious: what specifically do you consider to be wrong in the assertions made by Sheetal Talwar and his attorneys?

You seem to believe that what was reported in the story is a "conspiracy theory." For you to say that, you must have information that contradicts what Talwar is claiming. What is it? I'm sure the Securities and Exchange Board of India would like to have that information also.

Enlighten us, please.

Or, if you don't have any such information, stop claiming that what's being reported in the Indian financial press is made-up conspiracy theories. I have very little patience with the "fake news" crowd, when they're unable to detail what, exactly, is fake about some news.

[J]

Spence: "Whose idea was it to start with? Does it matter? The whole family went along with it year after year. The man (Gurinder) knew."

To that, I'd answer: we still don't have any evidence that Gurinder knew (from the outset) of a plan to rob rupees from Religare. That we don't know does matter, very much so.

There's no question that parties within the Dhillon family are at fault. The pertinent question though is whether Gurinder knew about the plan from its beginnings and/or had a hand in its continuance. The answer to that question currently remains an unknown.

There's also the question of what the dipshit Singh brothers told the Dhillon family about the legality of the terms of the loans. I can think of lots of other questions besides, too many to name here. This is why myself and D and others here are saying there must be a forensic examination of all the pertinent loan documents before we can really arrive at a decision of who precisely is at fault.

What do we know of what Gurinder admitted in his letter? Well, he admits that he was pretty messed up with undergoing cancer treatment at the time that these loans were instigated. That's a factor that shouldn't be ignored.

Also not to be ignored is that both Singh bros initially said Gurinder was blameless.

I've studied religious movements for nearly 40 years. I'm not an expert, but I'm not a cult apologist either. I know as well as anyone the heinous things that cult leaders have done, and I don't think any religious leader should get a pass because of the neatness of his turban or the immaculate rep of his lineage. I argued for years with the defenders of the Twitchell cult and know first hand of the psychology of the cult apologist who can't bear to even imagine that his chosen gurus aren't pure as the driven snow.

I don't even much like Gurinder Singh. I do think he has a tough job and I have to credit him that he's apparently giving his all to it, just as Charan did. But I never felt attracted to him, and I've never been that impressed with what others have relayed about how Gurinder interacts with his followers. On the other hand, I don't think the evidence is anywhere near conclusive that Gurinder was the mastermind or even an abetter of this financial mess.

If it should come to pass that the courts rule that Gurinder was at fault, I'll be 1st to demand that he abdicates the Gaddhi Throne. There are few people I hate more than financial conmen.

But I'll wait for a court verdict, and not the media's suppositions * . And on that note, let me point out that the Indian media, which has never been friendly to RSSB, has yet to make the leap to assigning blame to Gurinder Singh. I find that telling. What the media is reporting are the accusations of one Singh brother.

* Footnote and caveat: As I wrote before, it's entirely possible that a religious leader could be the mastermind of this kind of financial crime, and yet no documents exist that legally tie him to the crime. That is, the religious leader could simply verbally "suggest" or command his devoted followers to do whatever, illegal or not, and they'd do it no questions asked. That being so, it will be interesting to see if others involved in his scandal will testify that Baba Gurinder Singh was indeed the Kingpin. If multiple people turn state's evidence against the guru, that will change the equation for me.

[Dungeness]

The letter Baba Ji authored indicates he knew.
His reaction in Satsang when asked is proof he knew. And he knows.
And he is doing nothing.

Oh, gosh, refresh my memory of this "smoking gun".

No wiggle room at all? This is an expert's prosecutorial judgment, eh.
Ya looked into his "lying eyes", waited for his sobbing confession, only
to get a telltale, damning silence and then "ya knew, ya knew".

Perhaps an online petition is warranted now... a plea to SEBI to initiate
an immediate indictment of the "Baba". Ya can point to his "reaction
at Satsang" to the scandal, how "he went silent". Paint for SEBI a portrait
of a guru gone rogue, his opulent lifestyle, the manifest greed. Mention
again those whispered death threats, those crude, demeaning remarks
to loving disciples, and, gasp... the telling of unholy jokes.

I get it though. To have a master is to place the locus of judgment in someone else's hands.
But there is a dangerous downside to doing this, which is that we do nothing because we aren't really, perfectly sure what's going on....and refuse to use our capacity to make a judgment. How far will we go telling ourselves we don't really know what's happening? To the Tenth level?

Yep, RSSB lays bleeding on the sidewalk... knifed through the heart like
poor Kitty Genovesee. We can't remain "guilty bystanders" like others.

We can't leave it to 12 dumb jurors. We gotta tell the police what we
know about the "Baba"... what a disappointing fraud he is. How he
broke our hearts. trashed the scriptures, shocked our sensibilities. He's a
devil, satan incarnate. Get a rope!

[Spence Tepper]

Hi J
You and I agree on a lot.
However you wrote
"If it should come to pass that the courts rule that Gurinder was at fault, I'll be 1st to demand that he abdicates the Gaddhi Throne."

On this I don't agree. I think he should show contrition, make plans to pay what he can, and continue with a more focused commitment to his job.

He was assigned this work and has no excuse to leave it. That would be, to me, even more irresponsible, and in fact impossible.

A teacher who fell can become a better teacher. The world, actually, has fallen. So this wouldn't be a much needed role model. It would be his best teaching!

In fact, if he can't, there is no hope for any of us.

But indeed there is hope, the path is real, and Baba Ji simply needs to clean up these extraneous things he had become imdedded in, perhaps by his own ambition.

Spiritually, he was brought back way too soon. But this is all part of a good story.

If he can admit his shortcomings only the arrogant Satsangis will leave. The rest of us will be like 'that's good teach! Now continue... Humility and honesty... Great role model, Ji! Well done! We've all been there done that in one way or another, bro. "

There would be greater hope, and less false pride among the senior Sevadars.

[Ashok Kumar]

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

[Matheikal]

I was ill-fated to be associated with RSSB for 3 years when they took over the school in Delhi where I was a teacher. I saw from very close quarters how fraudulent the whole cult was. They cheat and swindle without shame. I wrote a memoir after leaving that school. I left the school because they had shut it down illegally using all sorts of fraudulent means.

My memoir is available at Amazon.

https://www.amazon.in/Autumn-Shadows-Memoir-Tomichan-Matheikal-ebook/dp/B07RJGR2X6/

A quote from it:

"I imagined Dr Pranita and Ms Gurbuxani smirking at each other sitting in their air-conditioned office in the RSSB complex adjacent to the school campus. The school building had already been bulldozed. There was nothing left on the campus except a part of the staff quarters and a makeshift office at the entrance where Dr Pranita made her loathsome apparition for a short while every day.
My short stories of those days began to have witches as characters. Those witches had the faces of a godman’s women."

[Dungeness]

A teacher who fell can become a better teacher. The world, actually, has fallen. So this wouldn't be a much needed role model. It would be his best teaching!

In fact, if he can't, there is no hope for any of us.

Dear Spence,

Why should anyone shoulder this morality tale alone? If there's a residue
of faith in GSD, why not wait for his response? Why not wait for the
court's adjudication?

The final curtain and the play's denouement may pull in several others.
Sunny 'n the Singh bro's, Shabnam, GSD's sons are among the "usual
suspects". Are they just relegated to bit roles and not even around for
the denouement?

Wouldn't it be unsporting to declare Col. Jessup guilty in the first act and
head for the door? He didn't even get to thunder "You can't handle the
truth!". Even more dramatic and fitting, you'd miss the kick-ass corporal
telling his co-defendant post verdict: "Yeah, we did! [something wrong].
We failed to defend those too weak to defend themselves."

If you're sure GSD's guilty now, does he need guidance, lectures, shaming
to coax him to confess? Would it take a tearful intervention to push him
over the edge? Could anyone have faith in his advice after an intervention
or plea deal?

Why agitate for conclusions before letting the drama unfold, cautiously,
carefully in the courts where it belongs? This aren't the the actions of an
apologist or guilty bystanders. No one's ignoring the evidence.

The alternative is the drama of the mind, of letting it run amok with
judgment, and rendering its own verdicts. That's not having any residue
of faith in the courts or GSD. It's an arrogance all its own.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
You asked

"Why should anyone shoulder this morality tale alone?"

It comes with the job, Dungeness. He is the only actor free to choose.

You asked
1.
"If you're sure GSD's guilty now, does he need guidance, lectures, shaming to coax him to confess?"

2.
"Would it take a tearful intervention to push him over the edge?"

3.
"Could anyone have faith in his advice after an intervention or plea deal?"

1. All the students are responsible to practice what they were taught. If they can't intervene, they weren't listening.

2. He did his part, now it is our responsibility to perform. When you complete your four years at University you must take your exams and demonstrate that you got it. The professor's job is to create the exam and to give it to you personally, and for the student to complete their examinations, and then to score their results. It is only between you and he, no one else is actually involved.

Any student refusing to take the exam 'I can't possibly know as much as my professor' will need to return next year.

3. Can you have faith in anyone besides the Master? Any Flawed human being struggling for progress? How about faith in yourself?

That isn't an insult by the way. It is the flower of all creation.

[Sonya]

Gurinder deserves to spend the last of his days left in jail. Unfortunately (and sometimes fortunately) we don’t always get what we deserve. That’s because karma takes her time... sometimes many lifetimes. Disappointing, sad and disgusting but such is the plight of the worlds most democratic, 3rd world and hyper religious society. I find countries socioeconomic situations fascinating.

In America we have all these freedoms... liberties but also the highest number of incarcerations by a long shot. India is steeped in religion, no doubt finding in some sort of solace in believing there has to b something better...

Then you have China, not as many freedoms but a really good quality of life in the major cities. Yes, they have censorship and they are very well aware of it. Of course, our President refers to more than half of our news outlets and commentators as “fake news”. So what makes us so different from them as far as that goes (Please read The Art of War if you really want to understand how the Chinese think).

[Sonya]

And, NO, I did not have a pleasant experience with Baba Ji/Gurinder in Hong Kong. Suffered from two panic attacks for the first time since I distanced myself from him last December. That guy has SERIOUSLY bad mojo.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Sonya
I wish dearly that you return and see him as just a guy. Doing a job. Sometimes seriously, sometimes phoning it in. But nothing more.
I wish you never to be intimidated ever again. Not stressed. Imagine a greeter at Walmart puts on a turban. Imagine a grain of sand, just like you and I. A guy wit some serious faults. A bad gambler. Proud, in denial. Entitled. But zero power.

The power, as Zen Master Jen teaches, is what you give him.

Don't let the trapping of the followers trap you.

So you can go to Master and ask him. Wat up, bro? WTF?

[Dungeness]

1. All the students are responsible to practice what they were taught. If they can't intervene, they weren't listening.

Gosh, this kind of reductionist metaphor is slippery, Spence. the hidden
gem eludes me.

To me, intervention also extends to watching the activity of the mind.
So, the "Wat up, bro? WTF?" you recommend challenging GSD with is
fine, if it''s also directed at the mind.

Ya know, a little skepticism about the sudden thoughts and judgments
that pop into our heads at times wouldn't hurt. I know, I know we're
usually "extremely stable geniuses" who don't make mistakes. Or hardly
ever.

Extend that caution to the group-think of the unenlightened mobs who
conflate allegations with facts too. Ya know the ones... after consulting
their crystal ball, scream "the dude oughta be in jail", and "pay your bills,
Baba Ji."

Big-time interventionists. Accuser, judge, jury, and executioner all rolled up
in one. Maybe it's wisdom of a blog savant, But mostly it's just mind's bullshit...
a quick, lightening foray by the mind. That's our "duty" to challenge too.

[s*]

Good answer from Spence to Sonya!
He is just a human..
I know about panic attacks.
That is why..

<3

[Chowkidar]

Hey Everybody,

How about also discussing the Kerala Nun rape by Jesus Christ's representative on Earth and also all the other child abuses indulged by the holier than thou Vatican appointees.

[Georgy Porgy]

Oh Jesus here they go away - wailin’ and a gnashing - like a bunch of fishwives - get a life glut goodness sake.

Don’t worry the court system is there to mete out justice, not the hang’m high brigade, thank goodness.

[Georgy Porgy]

I got a question for the bitter exes, but it requires honesty.

Some of you been assosiated with some or other RS guru off and on for years if not decades - Do you honest believe that your guru (even if you personally lost faith in him or his teachings) is the sort of person who is an outright crook and after money?

Forget about family members who might be greedy or perhaps unfamiliar with corporate laws - this is a straight question - do you actually think Gurinder or Charan Singh would knowingly try unlawfully enrich himself?

[anami]

Does HC stand for High Court?
https://www.businesstoday.in/buzztop/buzztop-corporate/delhi-hc-orders-recovery-from-rssb-chief-gurinder-dhillon-wife-and-sons-to-pay-singh-brothers-due-to-daiichi/story/354797.html

[s*]

G P,
This has nothing to do with hang m high..
Not at all!!
It's just so difficult for people..
I sometimes go to sewa seeing my friends( family feeling)
Then I can feel happy and sad..because nobody talks about this..
And in fact ''I like the new santmat,without the concepts etc.."
I do'nt like it when satsangi's do not think for themselves.
Forinstance about donation after dead.
They maybe do these things because babaji say so..
But one should feel for oneselves.
Same with meditation..The length of time etc..
It is silly to feal guilty when doing shorter for instance..
Ohh well...
This is how I see the things..
And I wish babaji as a ''teacher''would talk about the problems..
What I said earlier I feel for them..
So...not hang him up high,but openess about situations where people can understand..

Love to me is the highest..!!!

[Mr. Curious]

You may have already seen this article; Gurinder and family have been ordered to pay back siphoned funds.

https://m.businesstoday.in/lite/story/delhi-hc-orders-recovery-from-rssb-chief-gurinder-dhillon-wife-and-sons-to-pay-singh-brothers-due-to-daiichi/1/354797.html

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Mr. Curious!
Yes, the Delhi High Court has ordered Gurinder Singh Dhillon and family and associates directly, by name, to pay their bills.

Responsibility for taking money and not repaying what they owe had now been placed directly on Baba Ji's shoulders by court order.

You now have your high court judgment.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Matheikal!
I recall there was a website detailing closing of this school in Delhi, and RSSB selling the land to a real estate tycoon.

But I can't find it.

Can you please post the link here?

[Juan]

Hi Spence,
Here you have the link to Matheikal's blog
https://matheikal.blogspot.com/

[Georgy Porgy]

S*

But why do you even go to the Satsangs?

Why don’t you just do the meditation ?

No need for anything else. What are you complaining about? Baba didn’t love you enough or what ?

He’s a spiritual teacher showing you a way. If you choose not to follow it, fine. What more is there?

Why are you all so worked up? He never forced you to join, he never asked you for any money (in fact I believe they feed you) or to make any contributions of any kind - what actually is all of your problem?

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Goergy porgy
I thought about the same thing and I think the answer to your question is that the exes left so now they feel the need to validate to themselves the reason for leaving the teachings. And the more they prove on this blog that they were right for whatever reason to leave, the better they feel about themselves. Simple as that.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Juan

Thanks for the link, but it's not the website detailing what happened to the Delhi school when RSSB took it over with the promise to run it as a charitable free school, then fired the staff over a period of several months, bulldozed it to the ground and sold the property to a real estate tycoon. There was such a website put together by several members of the school, but I simply can't find it.

Hoping Matheikal can help.

[s*]

G P and Jen f Austin,
Ofcourse, I do have my reasons..
I do not believe in the ''santmat teachings''as you know by now.
Nobody has to love me!! Ofcourse also not Babaji.
I mean Love is my ''believe"..I learned that from maharaji..is how I felt..(apart from the teaching)
He was my Father !!
And I have lots of good memories and sweet contacts over there.
It's near my home soo I sometimes join in there.
Is that so difficult to understand?

Also the hang m up high is not joy!! It is good that it's clear now how things are,how it is the real thing,had and still has to clear for everyone how things really are!! Even when bad..!!
There is also an in between land..when one just have good memories friends etc.
So it's not damned black and white.

[Georgy Porgy]

Jen from Austin

Yeah I don’t get it. What is actually their problem? I’ve never understood it from the start.

I can understand if they’ve joined some sect and been swindled outa their life savings or been forced into uncompromising situations against their free will - but none of that has occurred.

This lot get on their high horse about money from a company that has got absolutely nothing to do with them, whatsoever. They didn’t contribute to it and they didn’t lose anything.

Weird.

I mean if they want to leave, it’s not as if anyone tried to even stop them - tata gbye , don’t let the door hit you on the way out - so what is the problem?

It seems they believe they were entitled to something / I dunno what.