« What's next for the RSSB guru and Singh brothers scandal? | Main | Blind faith prevents defenders of RSSB guru from seeing reality »

June 15, 2019


Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Faiths and beliefs are temporary glue which one has to initially stick to taking the religious or spiritual offers as gospel ttruth upto a few sincere steps from any spiritual sect. Any further essentially demands real experience to ground or transform that faith into an empirical fact.

Definitely it may require considerable patience and perseverence to gather concrete evidence of same inside of us as an active reality of the Self - our consciousness - our soul floating in astral and causal regions due to. RSSB.path here ( yet to explore).

While I think initial meditative experiences may have similar or common progress symptoms.or billboards towards the inside due to any form of meditative practice, about which some of us interpret these as brains' extraordinary potential to move beyond logics of this world. Also some of us on this blog holds testimony to subtle inner experiences and to paint it as a plain and exclusive belief stuff seems difficult to accept even though the inner facts have even been challenged by Baba Fakir's theory.

We are in trouble if we think beyond life and that may prompt us to peep into beyond life phenomena thru the available options - the best of which has been the RSSB path.

I find it interesting that we are constantly surprised where, in spite of overwhelming evidence, people still support and cling to their adopted view or belief. In simple psychological terms it is cognitive dissonance:- 'The mental discomfort that arises where a situation in which a person’s belief clashes with new evidence is perceived by the person.'

But we don't always have to rely totally on science. It is quite possible to see these processes in ourselves as they happen. It requires just one principle – honest enquiry. Unfortunately we are almost incapable of applying this principle to ourselves on account of the fact that our minds are generally dishonest.

The mind cannot help being dishonest. Its very function is to protect and maintain its contents – its conditioning – at any cost, including truth. It certainly does not always want the truth. Truth would expose its insubstantial nature. It would expose the insubstantial nature of the information from which we derive the sense of self. The whole naked illusion would be revealed – although the mind would still be functioning as our source of information necessary for day to day living.

Exposing the mind would mean exposing the self – the me, I, ego structure. For this composite structure it would feel like death and no one, no mind/self structure would entertain that. Hence the quite natural rejection of evidence.

And here's a thought – perhaps such nakedness of the mind structure is enlightenment!

How apropos. As soon as I think I’ve gotten this whole RSSB thing out of my head it pops up in my dreams. Had a really strange dream last night. One that left me thinking for quite some time.

There is no risk in the belief or faith in concepts like love, goodness, an all forgiving benevolent higher power that is only there to encourage you to be better.

But gurudom is different. It’s akin to being a drug addict. Despite the fact that I suffered from panic attacks as an “RSSB-er”, I never actually had one when I was in the same room as GSD. It was the whole attachment thing that gave me panic attacks and having finally broken away from it all is, for me, like “getting clean”. My self-worth and survival is not dependent upon what one man thinks of me.

Ideals are good. Something to strive for. Hero worship is bad. That level of psychological dependence on another person is anything but healthy.

Getting away from it completely is like going to rehab.

DEVOTION is a one way street.

Once you enter, you cannot reverse.

At least not unless you let go of the basis of your devotion.

The issue here is - the foundation and the reason for that devotion is HUGE.

The whole spiritual future of the disciple hangs on it.

Most disciples will simply not risk their whole spiritual future.

They don't care if the scandals are true or not.

It's irrelevant, because the guru is going to take then to Sach Khand and they don't want to lose the ticket. After all, they have spent their whole life paying for the ticket.

The ticket is not for sale.

And - they have heard all the stories of the gurus who tested the faith of the followers.

naturally - the guru is just testing their faith and they are not going to fail.

Those who love have left logic way way behind.

They don't care about logic because they claim love and love is beyond logic.

If you listen to any devotional songs such as Bulleh shah's - there is no logic.

listen to this mix of the nooran sisters based on Bulleh shah (it's Punjabi)
can you see any logic in it?

The lover is not a logician and he doesn't care about truth - he has love instead.

He cannot be convinced because he lives in a different world.


Very well said. I just don’t understand why there has to be a divorce between love and logic. Shouldn’t both love and logic represent truth? A little logic keeps you from joining a kool-aid drinking Haley’s comet cult...

Sometimes we fall in love with people who are bad for us and become blind to their faults. We marry them and later discover they have another family somewhere else. That was a silly example (although some people have actually had that experience) but you get the point.

Trump's comment about shooting someone and people still being loyal has a bit of context to it.
1) It was a joke, and it got a huge laugh from the audience
2) The point behind the joke was that the loyalty of Trump's base was far greater than that of other candidates.
3) The reason why Trump's base was exceedingly loyal was because "they're smart." That is, their intelligence in seeing that his ideas for leading the country were better than the other candidates.

There's nothing inherently wrong with loyalty. Loyalty is part of what hold society together.

Of course, it's wrong to be blindly-loyal to a criminal. But endlessly calling someone a criminal doesn't make him one. We just went through 2 years of the media and the DNC assuring us that the president was had colluded with Russia and was therefore a traitor. Turns out there was no evidence of that. And so today, 51% of the public supports Trump. This could be blind loyalty, but it might be something else.

As for Gurinder. To me, things don't look good (I'm more disturbed by Talwar's accusations than anything else). And yet I don't see any reason for why the RSSB sangat shouldn't continue to stand with Gurinder, and wait for conclusive evidence that he engaged in wrongdoing.

you wrote - I just don’t understand why there has to be a divorce between love and logic. Shouldn’t both love and logic represent truth?

Love & logic are simply different worlds.

Logically nobody would ever fall in love. There are no logical advantages.

And you cannot reason with a person who has fallen in love.

Love cannot be explained logically.

John falls in love with Jane.
You explain to John that Sarah is prettier and more educated and more intelligent and has a better career.
Will he switch over?
No - he will say, "Yes - but I am in love with Jane"

It's a bit too late for logic.

I agree it would be a good idea if logic remained - but it doesn't -
unless of course - you're not really in love yet and you can still escape.

So caming back to RSSB - those who are on the threshold and not committed yet - they can leave. But the ones who have already long
decided that this is their path and given up - thet are in love with the path and their guru,
When you attack their guru - its worse than attacking them.
They will stand by their guru - no matter what happens.

They will never abandon their guru,

in real practical terms there is a hidden agenda.
There is a benefit and logic hasn't really gone. It's in the background.

that is why the lover is constantly checking to make sure the beloved
also loves him/her.
Normally it's assumed, because the lover puts the beloved on a pedestal.
The beloved can do no wrong.

The lover finds a reason for every action of the beloved.

in RSSB terms - the followers who are deeply entrenched - they cannot leave.
They are too far gone. They cannot think of a life without their path and their guru. The guru is their everything. You can point out all the blemishes.

They don't care - they don't see blemishes. The beloved is perfect.

Beauty is in the eye of the lover.

Majnu said "if you want to see the beauty of laila - you need my eyes"

Those who love the guru dont care about any financial fraud.

They will always stand by their guru.

You cannot weaken their faith with mere factual evidence.

When I go to the mic and have a conversation with their guru
even I am a threat unless I fully agree with him.
The moment I am seen to disagree or debate - I am the enemy
because they cannot bear to see anyone question their Lord.

Their guru is king and nobody is allowed to question him.
The true followers will defend him with their life.

Darshan Das was shot while giving a public satsang.
The paathi saw the man with the gun first.
He immediately put himself in front of the guru and took the first bullet.

Logically that makes no sense. Why die? But to him - nothing except the
guru matters.

you can call it delusional - but not to the lover.

check out this footage from gordon ramsay.
the guy believes in his pizzas and gordon is saying
"but you have no customers"
still the guy insists he will franchise his pizzas soon


J, maybe I'm calling for Gurinder to be jailed because being an early Trump supporter, I didn't get to take part in the witch hunt and calling for him to be killed, his children raped, etc like much of America did, especially many of the influential drug addicts of hollywood who we're supposed to think are saying important things. There was something primal in that media created mob that I feel I missed out on, so I'm taking part here by being Gurinder's Pharisee.

Funny thing is that I've become a Trump hater in the last few months, though for all different reasons (hint, I don't think masses of unknown people invading my country should get automatic air conditioned full service hotels with swimming pools before being confirmed as citizens). I believe our acting president at the moment is Jared Kushner who despite being a formal member of an active genocidal ethnic supremacist group who celebrate with parades the shooting of children, medical workers and journalists, rarely gets a bad word spoken about him in the press, and nearly everything he advocates for the genocidal foreign country he is likely a dual citizen of comes to pass while Trump's domestic agenda has been 100% thwarted.

I could easily give Trump a pass for hiring Kushner, just as I could for his hiring of psychopaths Bolton and Pompeo, but I think hiring them makes him guilty even if he had good intentions, which at this point I have no reason to believe. He's probably being bribed.

Being a good leader means carefully selecting your inner circle, and both Trump and Gurinder seem to have a knack for surrounding themselves with criminality. There are times and circumstances when association is a crime. These guys aren't just having tea with criminal fraudsters and war hawks.

People here have likened Gurinder to Jesus saying that Jesus dined with all the bad people of his time. But let's remind ourselves that Jesus didn't hire them all and ask them to continue doing their sinful activities for his personal monetary benefit. Assuming Jesus ever existed. Same goes for all "saints" of all religion, even the highly recommended ones on the underground A-list who throw feces like apes.

When you project Love on one .person it is true what you say Osho.

But when you just feel ,know, recognise Love in your Heart...

Love becomes different..

More Clear..



Always Love for Everyone..

Differentiation makes no difference..

Because one sees things clearly..

So Love for one person..is different..
Seeing Love everywhere..

Not easy in this world with stupid ''children playing''..they have to learn soo soo much..

Like we all have as long as we are here on the planet..


Good point. There’s nothing logical about being “in-love”. And I think there’s a big difference between loving someone or thing and actually being in-love with that person or thing.


Good point. There’s nothing logical about being “in-love”. And I think there’s a big difference between loving someone or thing and actually being in-love with that person or thing.

"Loving Someone" would be an action. Something you enact. Like a duty. In the same way a disciple may choose to love the master. He chose the path and now he must create love. That's the "act" of trying to create love. There is a reason and a motive behind it.

"Being In-Love" is when it has happened. It's too late to run for the exit now. Now you are in the hotel California - you can check out any time you like - but you can never leave.

Leaving is no longer an option because you cannot imagine your life without the beloved now.

There is also a stage of "infatuation" which feels like "in-love"
Usually infatuation does not last - it is a temporary stage.

Like when you first hear about the guru and then are excited at the prospect of meeting this amazing person.

Sheena's journey in her book shows these stages. When she first hears of the master - she wants it more than anything. Then she meets him and that bond is created over time.
Even when her friends are telling her she is an idiot to go back after all that has happened - still she returns. She was "in-love" and reasoning with her at that point was impossible.

She managed to escape only because she saw behind the curtain. The great wizard of Oz was just an old man.

Ultimately the purpose of the guru is to get you to leave. Once you mature and grow up - find your own feet.

He was only there because you needed that for a while.

Every child has that connection with their mother. The child learns love only from the connection with their mother. The child grows up and leads his own life - he doesnt remain with his mother forever. It's a stage. he grows and moves on.


Yes, ideally one would find their own feet and move on, but some things keep coming back like a bad dream. 😂

Just when I think I’ll never see GSD again, there he is...

The references to Russia, Israel and immigration remind me of the band Foreigner. Once, in a general satsang, a speaker quoted lyrics from "I Want to Know What Love Is." Dangerous move, considering thoughts could turn to "Hot Blooded."

Religious faith, by definition, doesn't care about other people, or anything else on Earth.
Thus religious faith is dangerous. It leads people to kill, torture, maim, hurt, do anything that they envision their God or godlike human commands. Caring, love, compassion -- these are characteristics of secular faith, which I'm proud to embrace.

This is an extremely prejudiced and narrow minded view of Religious faith.
Is it only religious people who portray the negative qualities you list above?
Likewise, the positive qualities are only the purview of the non religious?

I think the Author of the book reinforces Religious faith as the best way forward.
Gotta have sumthin to believe in, as the song goes!

Sometimes one just looses Love.
What actually IS it??..

One can feel it and one can loose it..at times.
Maybe it's gift when it's there..

Anami are you just mentioning band names that you know I'd hate? I saw those Rush lyrics, man. You're walking on thin ice!

And to whoever up there that said "There’s nothing logical about being “in-love,” It seems better to reduce it to "there's nothing logical."

Yes, no pun intended.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.


Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.