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May 09, 2019

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Miracles are inconsequential, they are irrelevant. If a guru or spiritual leader takes credit for miracles, your bullshit meter should be going off and telling you to stay clear.

If someone says they experienced a miracle event, then that person can use it to build their own faith. It should not be used to build up an event to a guru's credit.

Getting rid of mind is no mean feat, I am sure, especially at the time of death and one enters to state of the Bardo Thodol. Just a tiny extract taken from the introduction to The Tibetan Book of the Dead:
" Then he knows that whatever he may see, hear, or feel, in the hour of his departure from this life, is but a reflection of his own conscious and subconscious mental content; and no mind-created illusion can then have power over him if he knows its origin and is able to recognize it. The illusory Bardo visions vary, in keeping with the religious or cultural tradition in which the percipient has grown up, but their underlying motive-power is the same in all human beings. Thus it is that the profound psychology set forth by the Bardo Thodol constitutes an important contribution to our knowledge of the human mind and the path that leads beyond it ." Lama Anagarika Govinda.
Nothing that exists or that comes into being can possibly exist by its own side. Everything is dependent upon other factors to arise. There can be no independent origination. That is my take on the meaning of " emptiness". Form is emptiness, emptiness is form. The truth will always just be the truth, it is merely the language that changes to explain it. Now we have the scientific language in line with our evolutionary state of understanding . Quantum entanglement, proves dependent arising and origination. I suspect without mind, and upon death for most of us, even those of us who follow a "spiritual" path, philosophy, religion, belief system etc, and for all the visions, mediation, and practice over the years, death will just be like receiving an anesthetic. Who really knows how to go beyond the illusions of mind and matter? Really! ( But I still believe in Fairies).

In defense of Gurinder. Whatever he has or has not to do with the Singh brothers' financial situation is irrelevant. No doubt Charan Singh put him in charge, as Radha Soami Satsang Beas needed a good business head to "grow" the business. I assume many wealthy, and also not so wealthy, Indians donate. I wonder how many westerners do? In 1989 , the only time I was ever there ( initiated by Charan Singh) I donated a very tiny amount, all I could afford. The money to fund such an organisation has to come from somewhere. The organisation mainly benefits Indians, who really need the belief system and who benefit from it, emotionally, mentally and spiritually, hopefully. It is a predominantly Indian belief system. History proves humans need belief systems, whether they be based on fact, truth or otherwise. The mind controlling antics of the belief systems if the past and present , one would hope, had/have benign motivations. But of course, as we know that has not always been the case. Sometimes, we do have to accept a theory or idea in blind faith. An infant does not know that putting its hand on a hot element will cause great suffering. It just has to obey its mother. The same said for the practise of certain seemingly stupid rituals. (In my infant unknowing mind). At Beas, many many, good things are done to elevate those nationals who work, live and visit there. In the main, it is to elevate the consciousness of those who need it most, to rid themselves of past traditions and conventions that are so very much no longer applicable in their society. They must change their mindset it they are to evolve and live better lives. Change takes a very long time. Gurinder probably does not give long satsangs as the past gurus did, because, he sees beyond the Maya of it all. From what I have heard him say, he tells it how it is. YOU ARE THE MASTER! WAKE UP! The hundredth monkey syndrome is called something else now in science I believe. When enough "minds" entangle with the best and benign truths, then there will be a mass shift in conscious evolvement. But if not, then thank goodness for those on the planet who quietly work away in the background to help to eliminate the suffering of all beings. Radha Soami, Amen, Om Mani Padme Hum.

Because I can't let go of my egotistical mind and OCD tendencies, practice is the noun and practise is the verb. I mixed them up in both my posts, plus a typo if for of! The "teacher" in me!
Fairy Gyani, Sukhavati in Akanishta, and Little Tinkie.
I am beginning to believe that what region you reside in, in the three times, is your choice, your very own mind projection. I wish and wish internally and externally to go to the pure lands when I leave this body. In reality, I have no idea where Mt Meru is, nor anything about all of the regions Sant Mat, the Vedas or Mahayana Buddhism tell me. Are the purelands the same as the regions in Sant Mat? Are they just another explanation for the various dimensions in maths and physics, or what the scientists are trying to discover at Cern with the LHC? But suddenly one day in my quiet solitude of bliss and complete contentment, I realised in my very ever-present now, I am already there and it is just beautiful, I never want to leave! I think Gurinder is a man such as Faquir Chand, a realist. But men they are. However, there is a certain "light" that does shine in some very beautiful realised beings, but you have to be able to recognize it.

I don’t know why people are so obsessed with miracles. Even the book ‘A Course in Miracles’ spends close to 1,000 pages saying Miracles essentially equate to life. Life is a miracle. That’s all. The only miraculous thing a human can do, at best, is change their perspective. Maybe that’s where limited free will comes in... 🤷🏽‍♀️

I worked in Marketing for HHP. They’re definitely not flakey. In regards to Brian’s article, here’s an interesting link: https://www.health.harvard.edu/mental-health/the-power-of-the-placebo-effect

@Tinkie

.... No doubt Charan Singh put him in charge, as Radha Soami Satsang Beas needed a good business head to "grow" the business.

Hi Tinkie,

Every time when i read that Gurinder was a head business man in Spain before he was appointed Guru i know-that is not true-.

Gurinder worked for "Oriënt H.W.Balani Málaga" (trading watches) H.W. Balani (Hiro) was not only the boss of Gurinder but also the former rep. of Spain and some South American countries.

To get confirmed that Gurinder was not a bussinessman at all i wrote yesterday to my friend who worked in the same company and she confirmed that he was not.

Her answer today:
I think thats perhaps fake news. He did not seem to have a high ranking job with H.W.Balani thus they were quite shocked when he was named Master and rushed to get in his good graces!

The placebo effect is real, but so are events that defy explanation.

The superstition of believing in miracles as fact is matched by the sceptic with the superstitious belief that someone else's experience is a lie.

So here is the interesting thing about the placebo effect. In many cases, people physically, actually, get better because of it.

Something is actually happening. Belief in a higher power or the magic of spirit guides can actually improve not only our attitude but our health. While believing nothing can be done can hasten the spread of disease. Or it might drive us to get proper medical attention.

What is subjective has a physical componant.

Faqir didn't deny the power of the mind, or even psychic phenomenon. He emphasized both. He simply pointed out that this was all part of the mind, even legitimate psychic phenomenon like direct thought transfer. The part we are conscious of, the symbolic part, may only be symbolic and not literal. Still it represents something. And maybe learning to understand those symbols better is a way to understand another language of our reality.

As much as interested parties want to claim Faqir denied the possibility of paranormal events, he in fact claimed they exist. But he claimed that our mind may only be able to understand them through the language of our imagination.

Miracles!
The placebo, given by my Doctor, miraculously cured my Hypochondria. Unfortunately, the side effects were something else...

"The superstition of believing in miracles as fact is matched by the sceptic with the superstitious belief that someone else's experience is a lie."

Wuuuuuuuut?

Disbelief isn't superstition. I'll say it for the millionth time, people lie a lot and there is no reason to believe their experiences or take them at their word.

Long before you get to the reality or lack of concerning of miracles you have to deal with the fact that a huge amount of non miraculous stuff that people tell about themselves is completely false.

Nothing superstitious at all about not believing people's claimed experiences.

I think the problem is that we are connected and part of this creation, but our tiny brains have limited capacity to understand that connection.

But the wonder and magic is that we are all connected, and I think we should celebrate the subjective ways our mind uses symbols in the language of imagination to bring information to our awareness.

It's a beatiful as any other part of the creation.

But what does it mean? That is the realm of conjecture. And conjecture has a dubious accuracy rate.

Most of the time symbolic things aren't literal. They are subjective experiences, like all great art, that reflects some element of reality.

In fact no one on earth can exactly explain as to how does conscious occupies the foetus' brains in womb because without conscious brain in itself is mere flesh and blood. Its a mystery.

Medical science only claim it to be brain dead or brain live. What goes on inside the brain is a phenomena whether attributed to brain or conscious - let's figure this out first.

If it is mere brain then what Baba Fakir concludes by your opinions may be true.

But if brain is merely a tool for the conscious to operate in then things are beyond the reach of analysis by human species or Sciences. We need to take the help of sources as Bible, Kuran, Guru Granth Sahib and upon their recommendations to search for some adept who can qualify to analyse self- reveal to us as big bubble or whatever but Truth behind these world's weird phenomena unfortunately we are a part of as of now.

Therefore by trying to define with some iota of truth, using logics to create a mirage of some authentic explanations and leaving the source or origin of brains / conscious aside as stated at the outset of this comment seems not justifying the conclusions (reg inner or outer experiences) as presented taking these akin to placebo effect of brains.

Let's give more thought to it.

Regards.

Hi Jesse
You wrote
"Nothing superstitious at all about not believing people's claimed experiences."

Jesse I think I may not have explained my view.

You don't need to believe anyone else's experience, even your own. I don't think anyone here is asking you to.

Experience is the land of subjectivity.

But it's not truthful to make people wrong because they see or process the world differently. And not everyone who does so is lying. Honest people won't always see it exactly as you do. They might see it completely differently.

To hate on that is actually prejudice, which is a kind of superstition: that you must make them wrong, without evidence, just on the basis of superstition that their view is so foreign to yours you must deny it, as a threat, necessary to protect oneself or one's world view on claimed rational grounds, but which are often culture bound beliefs. Yes, that's superstion also, for those who act that way.

"The world would be a better place if everyone simply thought and did as I say."
- William F. Buckley

Not.

On the issue of imagination and theories of consciousness, this is a little visual presentation we prepared for a talk to the University of California, Irvine's Philosophy Club:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxydW5uZWJvaG1kaWdpdGFsbGlicmFyeXBhcnQ0fGd4OjZhMmZkYmY4MTExNzhlNDU

or here for easier reading without the visuals:

http://www.integralworld.net/lane160.html

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