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May 02, 2019

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He often said” do not react”..
So this is what he does.
I think when you “ care” you react..
It is strange that he does not “care”
Caring is sharing is comunication..
He could lay out what was/is happening.
Even to his nephews,because of his nephews he could have reacted..
I too do’nt understand..

I'm told that Gurinder will be coming to Petaluma very soon for a 2-day public event. I don't expect that anyone will show up to confront him and demand an explanation, refusing to leave until forcibly removed by stout security sevadars. I recall social media outrage over RSSB well over 10 years ago, and yet from then till now, no outspoken online exers ever show up to protest Gurinder events in even a Disney version of Antifa resistance fashion.

I don't believe anyone in the U.S. media will be showing up either. I doubt if anyone even bothered to alert the Press Democrat (if they're still in business) or any other Bay Area paper, and told them there's a blockbuster story about a scandal related to inter-family loans that maybe probably possibly conceivably might someday be tied to the Guru of Amy's Foods. It would be a hard sell. After listening to a 15 minute explanation of the scandal, reporters are going to pass, Very little sizzle, very small soybean steak. "Get back to us when you have proof guys."

I also don't believe this longstanding reticence to publicly confront Gurinder has anything to do with exers genuine fear that the Guru will send his minions to terminate his accusers. Gurinder isn't confronted because there's still not enough solid evidence with which to pin him down to wrongdoing.

Maybe someone will prove me wrong. There are 3 months to go, plenty of time to get organized.
https://petalumaprogram.org/

Tell him my baba was getting bored he needed some excitement and he came with a bang.

....Although this time Baba’s Bang has wiped away thousands crores rupees of public money, but definitely his next Bang will bring in much more thousands of crores rupees to the public.

What GSD does is his own business.
Of course you all have your own ideas about what he should do, but it’s his choice.
Donald trump is the US president and he does as he chooses. Lots of allegations, lots of opinions. But he will do as he chooses.
GSD is the same.
Telling others what to do is easy. But live your own damn life. Sort your own problems before you become a spoke person for others.
Each person knows best how to live his own life.
“God chooses to judge a man after his life. Who are we to judge him while alive?” Dr Johnson
Too many people think they know everything and act like they know better. But usually their own life shows they are idiots. It is easy to judge others.

You can do whatever you want as long as it isn't criminal in nature.

What are you gonna do if the blame does fall on GSD, however slim chance that might be? Claim something you have no basis on? Like there must have been a higher purpose for the criminal activity?

The fact that his name keeps coming up and his family and his closest associates implicated, doesn't that grey matter between your ears shoot some neurons off to say hey, is this right? Is this what a PLM should be involved in?

In search of
It’s me again😂 with all due respect to you, Help me out here I’m confused, you keep asking some questions but are not willing to hear the answers. Seems like you have made up your mind and if you have then why ask the question at all? Or are you only wanting the Master to give you the answer? Maybe that’s it.
IF so you will get it, little patience.
Good day

An intelligent response. Some thought put into maybe why he did it, had someone else do it.

Provide an alternate scenario.

Can you do that?

If you haven't been able to do it yet, it's because there is no rational reason for it.

I'm open to anything logical. Try me!

None of the logics are going to help you conquer the Death, Search.
Only and only meditation, love for the Master and the Shabd (the real master) will!

If you are an initiate,
as Hazur Charan Singh Maharaj Ji always mentioned:
"If you want to experience something noticeable, do it sincerely 2.5 hours daily without fail for continuous 40 days"

If you are really in search of the truth, give it a chance, it will be worth much more than you can imagine.

Don't follow a fraud.

Get your source correct. Sawan Singh said that, not Maharaj Ji.

If the path is correct, but you have no faith in the guru, what is your next step Sherlock?

Path is not necessarily incorrect, but the leader has shown inconsistencies and judgement errors. Saints have written in the past to beware of these.

Again, you provide no reason, no plausible purpose, no nothing. Keep searching for the truth. Why dont you ask him yourself? Are you afraid of the answer? Or afraid he won't answer you?

Take a step back and really ask yourself why you're having to defend him. Should you have to do that?

I've asked quite a few times to provide a plausible reason. I get nothing in return. Deep down you know there is something wrong, but the more you vehemently you come back at me and others is because you don't want to have to ask yourself that question. That doubt to creep in.

If your faith can't stand scrutiny, then it is based on falsity.

Spence your guru is a fraud too.

Don't follow a failed disciple and a Master abuser either.
If you have doubt on the Master, still much better to follow the Inner Sound and do your Simran and reach the truth on your own instead of anyone who couldn't bear prostitutes or the wealth at the Masters' disposal.

A person who disrespect the Sant Satguru,
who couldn't understand the Masters' workings,
who has resorted to abusing the Masters,
is not worth following either, Spence.

Unconditional Love has no conditions..
Also not 40 days 2 and half hours meditation.

I mean when meditation is good for you is an different matter.
All the time two hours long.. repeating the same words..pppfff..
Half an hour listening in a strange unpleasant posture..pff
I did for a very long time.
Not now anymore,I am freed!!!for a longer time now..
I do still meditation..Being..in the Stillpoint..
Also Vipassana..
Works very fine,no Master needed.
Espcially not a Master who one can not know( because he to ''high up''to KNOW..''
Everybody thinks( satsangi's) think they ''know'' their Master,but they have no IDEA about who he was is and will be..No idea,because he is just a ROLE..

Believe that He was getting bored up high above
( in Sachkhand)
And came with a bang to lower conscious

To look at the Tamasha( drama) and behave like minded with the trends in business (mostly malafide destined to earn more and most in shortest possible time) - taking decisions and facing music as alleged ( as yet).

Believe (me) if you can...
Trust(me) if you can..

I am a mystery wrapped under worst business deals as of now in a family or extended family where I have descended and among whom doing mega business deals is a trend than exception - He indirectly states in answer.

Hi Jim
You haven't met my Guru.

One Initiated
The path of love, of Bhakti, has many positive benefits.
In love, we see the sky, the stars and our Master within. In love, we find happiness, in love we are focused on one single point. Our attention is focused, and we go where our attention is.

And we merge with our beloved.

These are very natural benefits, healthy benefits. Meditating on the beloved takes you there.

If your beloved is pure, it is easy for your love and focus to be pure.
Then all that stands in the way are the negative and distracting thoughts that are your own.

But if you know even very little of your beloved, but in this simple knowledge, the knowledge of an innocent child, your love is pure, it is singular. And singular, your attention is focused. And in meditation we go where our attention is. Happiness leads to lasting happiness, bliss and ecstacy.

There are benefits whether the beloved is alive, a historical character, or simply an ideal that has taken hold of you.

This can become the center of your life. And every life should have a center. We are made to achieve singular attention, hard wired for it.

When you find the person who represents that ideal has human flaws, just like everyone else, and you turn from that truth, you create a division in your own heart that will disable your ability for singular love. Then you are lying to yourself, pretending what is broken isn't.

The answer isn't to justify those failings, but to accept that the human being, and the ideal he represents are not precisely one and the same. The human master is not the master. Nor is the human disciple the body.

We are more. So much more. Every creative idea will never be found inside this bag of flesh and bones. And that higher place is where we belong, up on high where our heart and mind and soul can take us.

Gurinder should pay his bills, come clean, demonstrate transparency and honesty, not secrecy and dishonesty. Then ask is forgiven and forgotten.

Because these higher values are much more important and are worthy of a teacher of those higher values.

And forgiveness is also of those higher values, so that we can all become one together.

But for that we must follow the vows of right conduct, and when we fall, as we do, we must encourage each other to acknowledge the fall, not with shame or blame, but with the effort to change our behavior, rehabilitate ourselves and each other, help each other, so we can become one again, and return, Religare, to that state of oneness.

So what we ask of Baba Ji we must be willing to do ourselves. Honesty, Transparency, Responsibility, Effort, Forgiveness, Progress.

"boredom is an insult to oneself"
-Descarte

Dear S*,

Sure, I sort of agree with you - once in bliss, the meditation continues as long as you are awake,
and sometimes in your sleep too.

the directive I repeated is specially for those who have never been sincere on the path and still complaining of having feel / experience nothing.

Believe(me) if you can!
Trust (me) if you can!

'me' refers to Baba li
That I intend to state in comment posted a little before.

@ spence - I have met your Guru

In search of
Hi. IF you have lost the faith you’ve lost it and there’s nothing any of us here on this blog can say or do that will change that. Like I said your faith graph is your journey. It’s ok go find what jives with you no need to keep asking the same questions you don’t want the answers to right? Somehow I feel you still need the answers but can’t come around to hearing it as your looking for something else. With regards to all this you will get clarity on all that transpired one day but will you be willing to hear and believe it at that time is the question?
It’s ok if you go elsewhere a whole lifetime seeking is a lifetime spent well. All I always say on this blog there is no need to be crude, disrespectful or judgemental towards HIM. Which many are constantly doing.
Like Ishwar puri once said that Great Master told him “If you find any other path that gives you more that this or is better for you than this...you are most welcome to go. This is what my master has taught me and it’s whats worked for me so I am imparting the same to you.”
Good day brother

Hi Jen from Austin.

Thanks for the response. I agree my faith is not where it used to be. For a number of factors, which l quite frankly feel is irrelevant to the questions I am asking.

Brian, myself and others have presented the findings of regulators, court hearings, and findings from in depth analysis of the events leading up to today.

Would you deal with a stock broker implicated in allegations of this kind? Would you buy real estate from a realtor linked to this type of news and findings? I think not.

So, here's the million dollar question: Why do you trust your freedom and future eternal inward journey to someone linked and implicated in this mess? Not only himself, but immediate family and senior RSSB members of Beas hierarchy?

If your FAITH and TRUST in bankers, lawyers, accountants, and stock brokers is now shattered with these allegations, why do you continue as if nothing has changed in your spiritual guide and counsellor?

If you counter that these are only allegations and unproven, fine. But if your own stock broker or lawyer was accused of this over a number of years, would you seriously continue using them? If your closest and dearest relative was considering using this person's services, would you not counsel them to find someone else?

Anyone, please just directly answer this question. I think it's a fair question. No dogma or prejudiced question here at all. Simple ethics and a totally relatable question.

Thank you!

I responded to In Search of on the relevant post, but the headline of this post is another good example (you don’t even see it):
“Gurinder Singh Dhillon should respond to allegations of his criminality”

Why should GSD respond to anything? Because you say so? Its not your job to put him on trial. You simply don’t understand the difference between skewed bias (fiction) and objective evidence (fact).

Who is in court? GSD or his relatives? Is it a criminal or civil offence? Have they been found guilty? Who has been found guilty and by who?

Actually lawyers often advise their clients not to say anything in case it is minterpreted, which is exactly what most of you are doing on this blog.

But leaving all that aside, GSD clearly has no time to play by any of your rules or expectations, and he’s completely right to do so. Not sure who you think you are fooling, but its obvious that you’ve already made up your mind, despite proclaiming otherwise. There’s no search for objectivity or truth or balance here. It’s one-way negative traffic.

Innocent until proven guilty. Waves and waves of propaganda doesn’t convert allegations, reports and/or hearsay into facts.

In search of
To answer your question in simple terms it’s because I TRUST my Master. And this trust does not come anything outside it comes from within. IF you would have asked me the same question when I got initiated or when I was a seeker my answer would have been different but now I have been on this path and practiced what I have been taught so I KNOW who my Master is. It’s as simple as that. It’s not hearsay it’s not talk it’s not reading it’s KNOWING. There’s a huge difference. You enroll in a school and your teacher gives you the lesson, you study the lesson everyday as instructed and slowly you learn. Once you Understand then you know the lesson your teacher is trying to impart on you. And you also know the knowledge your teacher has. Trust and faith is built. But all this comes only when you study. This is why I always tell any new initiate I come across...forget everything else but don’t forget your meditation. It’s the only way to KNOW. He is a lit candle and the only way to light ours to realize our own divine nature is to come in contact with a lit candle. You May say all this is “spiritual stuff” but I’m telling you my truth. Yes There are other lit candles in the world seek and you will find, I can only speak of the one I know.
Thank you

Hi Georgy
Even the Guru Himself has taken full responsibility as the cause for what has happened, if you believe what is reported above
"Tell him my baba was getting bored he needed some excitement and he came with a bang."

Baba Ji doesn't deny what happened and his choice to be involved, even to make the "bang" he chose to come with.

He just doesn't take responsibility for the fact that this was criminal. But he doesn't deny criminality either.

And the courts, in particular the SEBI, has already confirmed this is criminal.

It isn't necessary for you to read or believe the facts.
After all, our eyes, ears, and mind are flawed.
Even courts can be wrong.
Logic and reason can be twisted.
Bad reasoning is like a good prostitute who takes any position you like for a fee.

Sadly, the fee you are paying is your own integrity.

You may continue in your defensive/ aggressive posture. But along the way you must make excuses for crime.

And those excuses are not Sant Mat.


Appreciate both answers above. But as usual. You answer based on faith. You dont know. You can say it until you're blue in the face.

Again answer my question: yes you would continue to invest your hard earned life savings with someone who has allegations like this? Or no, you would find someone else to handle your money.

If you read from my very post up until today, I have never bad mouthed GSD, never called him names, never called him a crook. All I have asked of anyone here is to tell me why? Not one answer. Other than the usual "never question the guru".

So I question the guru, because most saints have said to question and verify the validity of his nature. The teachings are the teachings. Guru lives and breathes the teachings, usually.

So please answer the question. I will refrain from posting again until at least someone is honest enough to take a deep look within and answer honestly.

I know this will fall on deaf ears, and you will call me whatever you want. I've already started research, and its enlightening, freeing, and in most cases makes sense. I dont have to blindly follow anything someone says when they say "trust me."

I will continue to read and follow all comments. Best of luck to everyone and happy meditations to all!

Mr Spence, Good morning

You seem to shower petals while you rise to subtle levels - portraying an actual spiritual state that may exist but at some point you caution and likewise in a sense Mr Brian also has been cautioning differently time and again.

In fact many of us may be in divine love with Him as always which may be pure and close to singular and without fear of curse from Him or else for it is best friend like situation with Him and many of us talk on this forum fearlessly.

if He is ours then we own Him as He owns us and therefore concurrence with others on this forum about the worldly shortcomings that He seems to have become a parr of is relevant and no way is disturbing the chemistry between us.

But the story is yet to unfold or in a suspense thriller it is yet to be watched whether Hero is the mastermind of a web of deceitful greedy business decisions or He merely was a scapegoat for which He stands as a surety to mega defaulters.

In fact if viewed from a great distance we hold negligible significance and hence our affairs and therefore this worldly matter seems to have escaped His attentions or not been addressed by Him urgently as is demanded by a few of us including Mr Spence - your kindself.

Regards

Hi Meditator
You wrote
"But the story is yet to unfold or in a suspense thriller it is yet to be watched whether Hero is the mastermind of a web of deceitful greedy business decisions or He merely was a scapegoat for which He stands as a surety to mega defaulters."

Both. He is both. The story has already happened.

If he were innocent there would be no need for you to forgive Him. But if you do not hold him accountable, demand rehabilitation, and forgive, then what sort of brother are you?

He is already guilty, and the only solution is for you to behave like the best possible brother.

He can tell the truth, however painful; he can take responsibility for his mistakes; he can make efforts to pay his debts ; and he can join us again as a true brother. Yes, Gurinder has those superpowers. There is no risk there. But you will have to excercise them also. And until you do he is the scapegoat for your burdens and all of creation.

In search of
I’m sorry if my answer wasn’t clear I thought I did answer your question. Yes I would continue to invest my hard earned life savings with someone who has allegations like this because I TRUST him. And that is the honest truth. I know the allegations of wrong doings and death threats on Master’s part are not true. They are allegations. (I don’t know about anyone else involved). Why I know this? Refer to my last comment.
I can speak for myself, I don’t blindly follow, an inner relationship needs to be built.
Seems like you are assuming that everyone has lost the trust and faith which is not the case. You clearly have, and like I said with all due respect find something you are comfortable with. Looks like you already are. Good luck,
Light and love

No need to follow anyone. No need to invest your money in anyone. No need to smear anyone’s name or to confuse facts with allegations.

If you not interested in RSSB or GSD, leave, it’s as simple as that. Look elsewhere for what you think you need, end of.

Jen from Austin Texas, your comment reminds me why I'm an atheist who embraces facts and critical thinking. It sound like you would have followed Charles Manson to the end, even after his killing spree, because you wouldn't have lost faith in him. Ditto for someone who lies, cheats, and steals, since your faith is so gullible.

Religious believers like you support a lot of bad things in this world, because your "morality" is rooted in dogma, not empathy for others.

You seem to believe that it is OK for a guru to fraudulently take hundreds of millions of dollars from other people, and make death threats, because you have faith in the guru. I find this disturbing, though all too common among true believers like yourself.

No Brian you completely misunderstood my comment. It is NOT OK for anyone let alone a guru to do any of the above things you mentioned. My comment was that I trust that he did not do this. This is an allegation which you feel is true. It’s NOT true. Stop making assumptions of validity based on allegations.

And Brian be happy in your atheism. You have your view and I have mine. I’m not attacking yours am I? Why attack mine then?

Jen from Austin
I too suffered from the flaw you have illustrated. And that is to assume my subjective experience was superior to the objective facts, and further to assume that the difference between what I believe and what others believe was the result of their ignorance, not mine.

But, thanks to Brian, turns out it really was my ignorance after all.

Subjective experience only has legitimacy in the subjective world of our subjective experience. And in that world, for us, it is truth, it is fact.

Objective facts have no real weight there.

But in the objective world, truth is found in objective facts, and here they carry immediate and unassailable authority over subjective experience.

So telling others they are ignorant because you have special subjective experience has no weight, nor should it, against objective facts. It is a false argument to claim subjective fact is higher than objective fact in the objective world. Here all truth resides in objective facts.

And the facts are Gurinder to hundreds of millions of dollars in loans siphoned illegally and fraudulently by his wife, sons and RSSB buddies over debts years without repayment. Yes, this actually happened. Truth, can seem like an enemy. But it is your best friend.

Your enemy is emotion and illusion.


Jesus Christ old spence here thinks his Spock from Star Trek or something.

Mr objective rational thinking here - you have illustrated none of this at all. Practice what you preach. You are simply bowing down to your new guru Brian of the Churchless cult. Maybe you guys have a history of this. I mean proper atheists don’t get involved in cults and then see the light or have a change of mind - they were never duped in the first place.

And please keep your ramblings (sorry I mean sermons on the mount) to a minimum - i mean life really is too short.
Live long and prosper 🖖

Spence
Since your comment is directed to me I will reply to you...
I’m so happy for you that are no longer suffering and that Brian helped you out of that state. But don’t worry about me, I am not suffering, quite the opposite in fact.
I never said or insinuated that anyone was ignorant. I was asked a question so I replied to it. Go back and read it nothing about ignorance is mentioned there.
So you found your comfort in your beliefs now, that is great brother. Be happy...live and let live. What’s the need to join a smear campaign? What’s the need to be disrespectful, crude and nasty? What’s the need to assume guilt? By bringing someone down you don’t raise yourself. Your words and comments thus far show weakness, don’t be weak, be happy in your faith, non faith or whatever you choose.
All the best

Hi Jen
You wrote
"Your words and comments thus far show weakness, don’t be weak, be happy in your faith, non faith or whatever you choose.
All the best."

Weakness is an interesting word. In a building, a piilar that stands in all kinds of weather is considered strong. That pillar is built on a foundation of truth.

When the foundation is rotting, how can the pillar stand?

It can pretend to stand.

But remember this is Sant Mat not Faith Mat.

Spence my pillar is happily standing. Again it’s your opinion that’s it’s not based on truth. I know it is. Good day

There's still no evidence that Gurinder Singh lied, cheated, or stole from anyone. And for sure, there is likewise no evidence that Gurinder is a moral parallel to Charles Manson. Manson was a self-appointed messiah who organized drug and sex orgies and sent his followers out on missions of murder. Gurinder isn't quite there yet.

To equate Gurinder with Manson is out of line. So is comparing anyone who doesn't agree with us as being like unto members of the Manson family. They were murderers. Satsangis who give their guru the reasonable benefit of the doubt are a far cry from mercenary minions who'd chop a pregnant woman to death.

I'm tired of this culture where projection, supposition, and conspiracy theories are daily trotted out as facts, and those that don't go along with the party line are compared to Hitler or, in this case, Manson.

At this point, there are no facts that implicate Gurinder of any wrongdoing. All we do know is that the Dhillon family apparently played fast and loose with corporate money during the years that Gurinder was seriously ill. Who made these decisions is presently an unknown. More will no doubt be revealed on who precisely was in the wrong, and that will require forensic investigations of the terms of debt securities. We're not there yet. Let's not go nutz with the Mansonizing.

"To equate Gurinder with Manson is out of line. So is comparing anyone who doesn't agree with us as being like unto members of the Manson family. They were murderers."

There are Delhiites who hate RS and claim that they've murdered for property and other scandals. But you're missing the point entirely and you don't know how far these cults go.

Ram Rahim Singh is in jail at this moment for rape and murder, and he still has a massive following. When myself or others say that people would follow Gurinder even if a court found him guilty of murder, we're not only making a prediction, but one with an infinite number of prior examples.

One of the women of the Manson family still considers herself one of Charly's disciples.

Here's an article just updated today with quotes from the guru in jail for rape and murder. Of course, being a Sat Guru and all, his main priority when promoting various political candidates from inside a prison FOR RAPE AND MURDER is that they must support charities.

You just can't understand a real Sant Sat Guru. These rapes and murders were just his "mauj."

I've been saying it for a year and I'll repeat it again- RSSB followers will riot soon. There will be some huge scandal, people like Dharam and One Initiated will refuse to accept the truth, and they'll start burning down parts of Delhi and Punjab instead of doing simran.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/elections/news/no-msg-yet-dera-is-sirsa-kingmaker/articleshow/69171018.cms

"boredom is an insult to oneself"
-Descarte

Posted by: Spence Tepper | May 04, 2019 at 06:52 AM

Hi Spence,
His name is Descartes

Hi Jen
You wrote
"Spence my pillar is happily standing. Again it’s your opinion that’s it’s not based on truth. I know it is. Good day"

Is a very funny thing, Jen from Austin, and maybe just a difference in temperment, but my own inner experiences have caused me to be humble about truth. Of course I love to preach about what I believe and to share what I've experienced, but when pressed, as Brian has done so Bulldozery well for 'what do you actually know' I come up blank.

I can watch a movie that includes all sorts of constructed scenes and events that are physically impossible. And I have experienced such within. Alack, Agam, Anami, even beyond sound and light, in the arms of my Master, though these are the path through the entire creation.

But that's just my experience. And therefore it is subjective.

Do I get good internal advice? Only about my situation, and perfectly.

What does that mean? Could just be a mind that speaks in symbols working properly and accurately, occasionally. But what do I really know about the mind?

Even a broken mechanical clock is right twice a day.

But it is still one point. Monoscopic. So I can't tell you what I've experienced as an objective report, and certainly not what you are experiencing, I can't invalidate your experience. In some ways I can verify it. But I'd never want to denigrate it. It is your sacred treasure, and there are few of those in this world.

So there may be very good reasons why Baba Ji participated in promoting his sons and wife and cousins into positions in companies where they participated in siphoning monies illegally, fraudulently.

There may be good reasons why RSSB money built a brand new charitable hospital that was then transferred into Fortis private ownership.

Or why an RSSB free school in Delhi was destroyed and the land sold to a private developer. I have no idea why.

Those are objective facts.

I just think it's important to be sure no one is denying reality.

Because the path of truth is a path of peeling away layers of illusion, and most of those we thought were real.

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