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May 16, 2019

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I made a comment here earlier but my internet went down and it got lost. I'm gonna paraphrase here and simply say that Gurinder's followers have low standards.

Gurinder should try wearing a different hat. Right now he looks like a very unhappy Santa Clause. Why does he bother dressing up like a Sikh anyway. He should go “natural”. Or maybe he’s hiding the horns.

I just say that because I finished watching Lucifer—in Season 4. I’m a huge fan.

Spence and others here think the guru is guilty without due process.

Can you imagine the chaos if these blog writers were running the country?

Spence keeps on saying the same thing. Then why is Gurinder not been arrested?

He is carrying on as normal. Not what a criminal would do.

You only know some details not all.

You don’t know what the deal was between them. Maybe no money is owed. Nobody knows. Could be malvinder is making this up because he has no money left.

Spence is passing judgement without all the facts. Not even a court will do that.

Malvinder is a very bitter man now because he lost his money. Looking to blame someone for his own mistakes.

Trying to discredit the guru by alleging death threats. He is taking revenge and his words cannot be trusted.
Same as people on this blog are bitter ex-followers who write rubbish.

Hi Gurinder is
If you carefully read the article posted on the RSSB Website you see that some of Gurinder's assets have already been frozen by his creditors.

Yes, he has bills to pay.

Also, in the Religare petition to the courts, their EOW, they claim to have proof that not only Malvinder and Shivinder, but the recipients of the fraudulent loans knew and participated in the fraud... That would be the Dhillons.

The case of the RSSB free school in Delhi closed and sold to a private Real estate tycoon is a matter of expose by the teachers at that school.

The case of the new RSSB charitable hospital transferred "in a clandestined manner" is according to the court complaint testimony of the contractor hired to build the hospital for RSSB.

These are entirely separate from Malvinder or Shivinder.

Shivinder showed his true cowardice in front of the Supreme Court of India when he claimed he was no longer responsible for the fraud he had committed since he is now a holy man.

Both the Chief Justice and the prosecuting attorney have him a well earned scolding, and the court ordered him to pay his share.

Spence
You are not differentiating between gurinder the person and the companies.
They are not the same.
Some of the companies assets might be frozen.
Not gurinders assets. Not rssb either. Try to be accurate. Otherwise you are lying.

Spence is a liar and his only aim is to criticize RSSB Guru without proofs.
One of rumours he often writes is that RSSB sold a free school to a real estate company.,wheras to my best kniwledge,RSSB never owned a free school in Delhi and if it never had, ut never sold.Can splence tell the name and address of the free schiol that RSSB ever had in Delhi.
Even if RSSB had some property,,it has full right to sell it with the permission of the Master.The Master is the only authority to decide whether to run iit or dispose it.
He understans well difference between an individual and a company,but his aim is only to criticiize.

Bhana
Living in the will
Gurinder lives in His will and accepts what happens

https://youtu.be/3i4rTav1qGE
Will of the lord

Hi Gurinder is innocent

You wrote
"You are not differentiating between gurinder the person and the companies.
They are not the same.
Some of the companies assets might be frozen.
Not gurinders assets. Not rssb either. Try to be accurate. Otherwise you are lying."

But Earlier I had written

" Hi Gurinder is
If you carefully read the article posted on the RSSB Website you see that some of Gurinder's assets have already been frozen by his creditors.

"Yes, he has bills to pay."

Reading is a healthy way to learn and have dialog.

Here is the article I'd mentioned.


https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

And here it claims that some of Dhillon's (singular). holdings have been repossessed. From the above article...

"Dhillon's holdings, which were pledged to raise finances for the money-guzzling realty business, have been taken over by lenders."

Oops I lied. I'd written his assets were frozen. But as you can see some of them have actually been repossessed.

Spence, my God, your lies are getting even worse or you don’t understand business.
Dhillons Holdings were pledged does not mean Gurinder himself. Also it says taken over by lenders. That has nothing to do with this case. Any lender will take the pledged shares or company if the loan is not paid. It is not a sign of wrongdoing. It also has nothing to do with the Delhi high court case.
So you really don’t have any clue what you are saying.
The article also specifically says that Gurinder only gives advice if asked and believes each person has to make their own decision.
The name is “Gurinder is innocent”
Not “Gurinder is”

2.5 hours in and he talks about what a true human is. Beyond the five foes.

https://youtu.be/f7lfxRYOIzc

Gurinder Is,

The guru is a fraud and you're a retard. You have nothing to say, and you spend more time online whining about some turbaned doofus who your family makes you worship than you do meditating.

Wake up, idiot. Or at least do some meditating instead of trying to convince people who are smarter than you that your list of justifications for crimes are effective.

Sincerely,

Jesse

Jesse,
Perhaps you are the idiot.
You sentences don’t even make sense. When have I whined about a turbaned guru. You and Spence are whining about him. So you are the retard, not me.

You are worse than Spence. If Gurinder was a criminal, which you seem sure about, then why is he freely roaming the world?
Get a grip you lunatic. Stop making unfounded accusations. It is for a court of law to call him a criminal, not you.
You are dumb, not smart

"If Gurinder was a criminal, which you seem sure about, then why is he freely roaming the world? "

Why was O.J. Simpson roaming free after killing his wife? Why was the owner of Haldiram's restaurant allowed to stay out of jail even though the court convicted him of murder in Delhi?

Ask better questions.

Hi Gurinder is..

My point has always been that Gurinder should play his bills.
So when he pledged his own holdings to cover a loan and couldn't repay, lenders came in and repossessed his holdings as the article states.

As for the criminal issues, a court will decide. Those refer in part to other fraudulent loans Gurinder and his sons and wife received.

But I think everyone would be happy, including the courts, if all parties simply paid their bills.

And that is why I think Gurindar should live up to the vows and pay his bills.

So simple.


So when he pledged his own holdings to cover a loan and couldn't repay, lenders came in and repossessed his holdings as the article states.

He personally? Couldn't wife, sons, Godhwani have orchestrated the loans?
Won't details be hidden in the weeds until it's adjudicated? Or perhaps it won't
ever be clear. Still that shouldn't slow down those with "eyes to see" .

Is there some compelling reason to always frame responsibility as "he"? Or is
that totally laughable since everybody who's not a "retard" knows' the "Baba"
is guilty as hell... a cruel, greedy, sexist, unfit excuse for a guru, etc. etc.

Did I mention "He" promised an explanation which hasn't been forthcoming.
He's clearly deflecting, lying, deceiving in vile Trumpian ways.

"Book him Danno."

Dungeness, we can say he or they. Same difference. They're all business partners and "he" is the only one anybody is trying to cover for simply because he inherited godhood.

Even if he managed to keep his signature off of every single document, he personally chose every single one of the other conspirators that weren't in his family already. It'd be one thing if a single partner of his did something unscrupulous, but when everyone at the highest levels of his team are involved his negligence alone would be criminal.

Nobody is that stupid to have so many people around them committing crimes and to remain unaware of it.


Dungeness, we can say he or they. Same difference. They're all business partners and "he" is the only one anybody is trying to cover for simply because he inherited godhood.

No, I disagree. It's not the "same difference". "Guilt by association" is not a valid charging
document. Choosing Godhwani as his manager/advisor for instance is not de facto
evidence of criminal intent or complicity in crimes. It's a matter for the careful, deliberative
adjudication of courts based on strict rules of evidence.


It'd be one thing if a single partner of his did something unscrupulous, but when everyone
at the highest levels of his team are involved his negligence alone would be criminal.

"Everyone"? That's a sweeping indictment. How can one know how many were involved?
Or who? What evidence can be adduced? We can certainly see criminality. We can
opine based on the evidence as we see it. But, it's not a slam dunk legally no matter
how often insults are thrown at others with a more cautionary approach.


Nobody is that stupid to have so many people around them committing crimes and to remain unaware of it.

Again, how can anyone know who was involved? And how many? If it was amateur hour
fraud, why wasn't it caught earlier? Sometimes we don't really know what the people
closest to us are capable of. Or the lengths desperate family members/associates will
go to in order to hide the evidence of wrongdoing. Or how artfully they can deflect
blame... or obfuscate when caught.


It's easy in hindsight to fault others. It's easy to knee-jerk a quick opinion about whodunnit.
The reality is usually much harder to unravel. One sure takeaway though is not everyone
close to the scene of the scam is negligent... or stupid.

You guys have no life than to discuss this endlessly. I really don’t understand what you have against any Guru let alone him. It’s sad how much negativity you throw around.

Hi Dungenesd

I used the team he because the article said Dhillon's holdings (that's singular) not Dhillons' holdings... That's plural. The first is one single Dhillon. The second is the whole family.

His assets were seized by lenders. Because he didn't pay his bills.

It is simple if you read it as written.

"Again, how can anyone know who was involved?"

Dungeness, have you bothered reading a single one of the dozen or so articles posted on this site? We know the names of many of the relevant players.

"I really don’t understand what you have against any Guru let alone him."

A lot of Gurus are outright rapists and child molesters. A number of them convicted and jailed. Do you want us to stay silent about them, Anon? Is it Stockholm Syndrome you suffer from that makes you want to protect bad people?

Don't ask stupid questions. You're worse than Dharam and Gurinder Is.

As for anyone wondering why any of us could care so much about this particular scandal, you must be new to humanity. We humans love these kinds of soap operas. It's as primal as sex to want to watch your enemies in positions of power get destroyed and punished. Don't pretend to be above it, because you're not.


I used the team he because the article said Dhillon's holdings (that's singular) not Dhillons' holdings... That's plural. The first is one single Dhillon. The second is the whole family.

I filtered your statement into my fevered brain as "they're ought to get
him again" ;)

Anyway, though, couldn't wife/sons/Sunny G. have been cooking the
books. He coulda delegated details to them and gotten executive
summaries. Others mighta been relying on the theory that you can get
away with all kinds of stuff if the Guru ain't lookin'.., and found it to be
true. Gasp, he really does play a human in real life!

I know, I know, if anyone believes he didn't know what was goin' down,
they'd probably buy a bridge in Brooklyn too. Humor the poor dolts
though, hold a trial. We don't anyone skating. Who knows, there may
be some twists and turns in this drama.

"couldn't wife/sons/Sunny G. have been cooking the books."

Of course, anything is possible, but my opinion on the matter won't change even if everyone around him is busted on some charges and he remains standing.

When you delegate all your financial work to others yet are so negligent and ignorant of what's happening that every one of them is in on a scam except you, your negligence alone is criminally stupid. To me, your Brooklyn bridge joke is true in this case. He lived with at least one of these people and was on the board of multiple companies with the rest. There's only so much they could have hidden from him. And if he was totally ignorant of all that was happening, why was he involved? He should have bought shares like a normal person and let everyone else handle the business. Nobody forced him into this.

What I think would be an amazing twist to the story is if Gurinder ends up creating the most unlikely and unpredictable scenario by being miraculously innocent and coming out against everyone and becoming a snitch and witness. Spence will probably start seeing Gurinders astral form brighter than ever on that day.


There's only so much they could have hidden from him. And if he was totally ignorant of all that was happening, why was he involved? .

Well stated. I dunno. Whoever's involved clearly was trying to keep the
house of cards from collapsing and almost certainly telling fibs to throw
off suspicion. At what point, did the fib targets know or suspect it was a lie?
Why weren't they diligent enough to investigate on their own?

Plausible deniability is shrinking with new revelations but of course suspicions
always fall on the whole family, especially if it's deemed a "crime family". Even
without conviction, the weight of circumstantial evidence could get as heavy
as Dutch Schultz's "concrete shoes" on his last ocean cruise... depending on
your lens naturally.

The trial should reveal more unless all the lies and bodies stay buried. Recall
though, even a lowly accountant, was able to sink a mastermind. Or, as you
suggest, rats might might get religion and confess what really went down.
The Lords of Judgment will smile.

Spence says
“My point has always been that Gurinder should play his bills.
So when he pledged his own holdings to cover a loan and couldn't repay, lenders came in and repossessed his holdings as the article states.
My point has always been that Gurinder should play his bills.
So when he pledged his own holdings to cover a loan and couldn't repay, lenders came in and repossessed his holdings as the article states.”

There is no law or requirement to always pay your bills.

Lots of people default. Their house gets repossessed just as businesses get closed down etc.

It is not a criminal offence. It’s not even immoral. It can and does happen to anyone.
A person loses his job. A business loses a major contract. The real estate market turns downward. Anything,

Who are you to say “Gurinder should always pay his bills”

It is none of your business.

If you don’t pay, your assets get repossessed. Simple. There is no “should”
No criminal offence. Nothing to judge. You have a very distorted view of life and loans
Loans often don’t get paid.

Gurinder is Innocent, apparently you haven't learned anything about this issue, since your comments are astoundingly ignorant.

The money that went to the Dhillon family couldn't be called "loans," something you'd know if you'd read the complaints filed by Religare, Malvinder Singh, and others, along with the SEBI investigative report.

This was financial fraud. In no way were these loans secured by collateral. Vast amounts of money were siphoned out of public companies into shell companies controlled in whole or in part by the Dhillon family and their associates.

So please, stop with the uninformed comments. You can believe any sort of religious crap you want, but don't excuse the financial fraud with ridiculous talk about ordinary loans.

I am just glad that Spence and Jesse are not judges or presidents. They would lock away anyone who doesn’t pay a bill or appears to possibly be linked to some possible alleged crime.

Almost everyone would be in jail.

Get a grip guys.

You are not the judges.

Just two people with strong opinions based on guesswork. It’s not how the law works.

You also both have a personal grudge against Gurinder and are desperately seeking any tiny bit of evidence to nail him.

What will you get out of this? Just be honest and say “we don’t know for sure”
Better than lying. You have no case to prove.
Jesse, your logic is very flawed.
O J Simpson walked free because there was not enough evidence to convict him despite the lengthy trial.
Our law will not convict unless there is sufficient evidence. Otherwise innocent people will be in jail.
Will you reinvent the whole legal system because you think someone is guilty?
Let the legal system decide.
At the moment there are no criminal charges against Gurinder. These are the facts, regardless of if you like the facts

Is “criminal stupidity” some new crime that’s just been passed ? You write total nonsense just because you hate Gurinder.
Others choose to follow his path. That is their business.


Dungeness, have you bothered reading a single one of the dozen or so articles posted on this site? We know the names of many of the relevant players.

Yes, so many names, so many articles, so few indictments. I know, I know,
if you can't make an informed guess about who's guilty by now you'd hafta
be a total "retard".

Brian,
I was replying to Spence who says
It’s all about paying your bills.

The comment Spence made was specifically about Dhillon having not paid a loan and having pledged his holdings, the lender possessed the holdings.

That was the loan I was referring to.

I have read the articles and I am not suggesting they were just loans. Fraud was committed but not specifically by Gurinder. Malvinder and Shivinder were specifically part of the fraud. Gurinders role is subject to speculation.

If you don’t agree present evidence

Hi Gurinder is
You wrote
"Just two people with strong opinions based on guesswork. It’s not how the law works."

No, actually, it is looking at the large amount of evidence.

Rather than making character judgments, why not carefully examine the evidence?

A true teacher of spirituality lives by the vows. They are the model of it.

But Gurinder had indulged in land speculation and unfortunately those around him tried to cover his losses engaging in fraud. This fraud has been proven by the Securities and Exchange Commission of India.

And it's been going on for years.

As for the transfer of the RSSB funded charitable hospital to Fortis, a private company, that is a matter of court record.

Another old RSSB hospital in Mohali was sold to Gurinder's private holding company.

For your review...

Gurindar sold an RSSB charitable hospital, and all its acreage, to himself, into his private equity company, RHC, run by his son.

https://www.cnbctv18.com/views/the-devotion-of-the-singh-brothers-of-fortis-runs-deep-into-their-businesses-63575.htm

And in this legal document, where a construction company is suing RSSB and Fortis, it is confirmed.

https://indiankanoon.org/doc/87320658/

After all these years Spence still cannot write GurindEEEr.


Gurindar sold an RSSB charitable hospital, and all its acreage, to himself, into his private equity company, RHC, run by his son.

The article link provided mentions RHT rather than RHC. Separate entities?

In the same article, I notice mention of the substantial shares held by GSD's
son Gurpreet' and wife Shabnam as late as 2017 while GSD's stake was
"pared off by 2013" according to the author. So family members were
significant stakeholders financially and closer to operational details than
GSD... at least on paper, right? Of course. he coulda been masterminding
on kitchen napkins after dinner too...

But, even if it were Sam Giancana and the Gambinos, wouldn't it be fairer
(more accurate too) to say "sold to the family's private equity firm"? I think
this small nuance is important unless there's already a conclusion of fraud
and a rush to judgment.

I know, I know... you can cite other hinky goings-on too. Unquestionably there's
a reek-y a smell that certainly warrants further probing but even the article's
author concludes:

: "All this could mean nothing, experts say. But, it is curious as the same names
: or some connections come up repeatedly with Singh brothers and parties
: associated with it."

It's worth being as nuanced as the author. Call it fairness.

"if you can't make an informed guess about who's guilty by now you'd hafta
be a total "retard". "

I agree.

But Dungeness,

after reading all these articles and the court and government SEBI documents, and the article listed on the rssb website surely you have learned Gurinder owes a lot of money, hasn't been able to pay, and now some of his holdings have been repossessed, and others are being pressed for that money he still owes. Is it fair Malvinder and Shivinder are being threatened by the Supreme Court of India for, in part,
Monies Gurinder, his wife and sons took but did not repay?

Yes he may have been duped by others to participate in fraud. He, his wife and sons may have been tricked into taking hundreds of Millions of dollars without questioning year over year.

Any human being can be cheated. But cheat me once shame on you.

Cheat me twice shame on me.

And cheat me dozens of times, cheat my wife and sons, and at some point we must ask, "what the hell were you thinking?! These are stolen goods!"

No one is perfect. We try things, fail and move on. And occasionally there is a moment of success, and quite a few setbacks.

But we should all pay our bills.

And with that in mind perhaps we are a little less ambitious with borrowing other people's money.


Yes he may have been duped by others to participate in fraud. He, his wife and sons may have been tricked into taking hundreds of Millions of dollars without questioning year over year.

Yes, that's fairer. So now it's the court's purview to adjudicate all the gory details.
But overreaching, personalized attacks on GSD with hyperbolic rants about
"paying your bills" all ring very hollow. It's hardly a fair, informed legal analysis
of what occurred. Instead it's anger tinged, partisan rhetoric mixed with pious
homilies about how a Guru should behave.

I think a more measured approach would resonate with many, eg, "Serious
questions, reported in the Indian press and elsewhere, have risen in the last
few years about fraudulent loans extended to the Dhillon family. In my
opinion the court ordered repossession of Dhillon property is clear evidence
RSSB is rotten to the core..., etc, etc."

I know, I know where's the fun in that... But at least you have confidence it's
not the usual foaming- at-the-mouth attack crew spewing insults. Even the
Indian press in one of the cited articles, after detailing some of the facts,
concludes: "All this could mean nothing, experts say. ".

Who ya gonna trust... sober, investigative journalists or the rabid blog fringe.


Yes he may have been duped by others to participate in fraud. He, his wife and sons may have been tricked into taking hundreds of Millions of dollars without questioning year over year.

Oops, missed the sarcasm. Of course, this is fairer in a way. GSD is no
longer alone in the "Hall of Shame". No longer Mr. Big. His co-conspiring
wife and sons have joined him.

Dungeness, I fear you are missing the point.

This is not a statement of anyone's character. How can we know?

But we do have a relationship with our Master and the Path and those who represent it.

They have a simple job to do. Give the teachings and behave according to the vows.

When any Satsangi brother fails in their duty it is our duty to help. And the first step is to put aside excuses. No one is helped by making excuses for bad habits.

When Gurinder and family took hundreds of millions in loans they haven't repaid to invest and make even more hundreds of millions, they took risks. Risks simply for the purpose of making money.

Not risks on behalf of the teachings or the Sangat.

Now, how many millions does a person need to have? Apparently in Gurinder's family you need hundreds of millions.

Why?

What is the point?

Why are Satsangis investing Dera funds? Why is this such a focus?

And if it must be a focus when so much money must be stewarded, then why have so big an organization?

Why need so much land? And always more and more?

Teachings don't require land. Not one grain of sand.

When I was a small boy my parents left Judaism. This was in the early 60s before anyone knew what was happening in Palestine. But my parents knew and they were having none of it. The true Israel, they believed, is not a city on this earth. And so no real estate is worth fighting over, harming others over.

The inner path, the inner regions are rich. The inner life is rich. So why create an organization saddled with so much financial demands, and so much money, that corruption is the inevitable result? It has nothing to do with the true inner path, the teachings or spirituality. It is like mold in the dough. A little bit ruins the whole loaf.

It is like dirt in a glass of water. It doesn't take much to make it impure and undrinkable. Raise you ethical concerns with those buried in money and now debt.

Every Satsangi has a right to ask, "Why? Why did you do it?"

"pious homilies about how a Guru should behave."

Don't blame the critics for that, Dungeness. When these guru guys take the title of "master" and publish books with detailed descriptions of the exact way they are expected to behave then we have to hold them to their own standard.
If he didn't call himself god nobody would be talking about any of this.


When Gurinder and family took hundreds of millions in loans they haven't repaid to invest and make even more hundreds of millions, they took risks. Risks simply for the purpose of making money.

That's framed more fairly. No personal attacks on GSD and inclusion of "family".
There is a question of Godhwani's role as advisor and the extent of his financial
entanglement but that in no way mitigates the Dhillons' responsibilities.


Every Satsangi has a right to ask, "Why? Why did you do it?"

You're right and, importantly, as you and Brian have stated, it's imperative
that they ask these questions.


And so no real estate is worth fighting over, harming others over.

Wise words. (We can never thank our parents enough).

If the inner regions are so blissful, and full of amazing sights, then I don’t understand what GSD is doing amassing all this wealth.

Why waste time here if inner bliss is so amazing?

Unless of course he doesn’t reach any inner bliss and has to make do with outer wealth

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