Shabnam Dhillon, RSSB guru's wife, implicated in financial fraud

Well, today there was another story in the Indian financial press about the Singh brothers' fall from riches and how their involvement with Gurinder Singh Dhillon, guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, has contributed a lot to the legal trouble they're in.
Download Malvinder and Shivinder Singh and the ‘missing’ funds of a billion-dollar empire | Business News

The Indian Express story contains intriguing details about the involvement of the guru's wife, Shabnam Dhillon, in financial dealings that a criminal complaint filed by Malvinder Singh says were fraudulent.

Here's an image from the story that shows her connection to several shell companies that allegedly engaged in illegal transfers of money.

As you can read in the following excerpt from the story, Malvinder says that Prius Real Estate and Prius Commercial Projects engaged in a "wrongful loss" to RHC Holding. 

In the image above, the blue boxes indicate companies where Shabnam Dhillon was a director until August 2016. Those include Prius Real Estate and Prius Commercial Projects.

It's hard for me to believe that she was the mastermind behind the shady financial transactions. But she could be held legally responsible, unless her husband, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, breaks his silence and admits that he helped orchestrate the fraudulent transfer of funds.

Here's the excerpt from the Indian Express story. I've boldfaced parts for emphasis. Rs 6,000 crore is about $863 million.

The ‘Baba’ Factor

Earlier this year, Malvinder filed a complaint with the Economic Offences Wing (EOW), pointing fingers at his younger brother and RSSB spiritual head, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, for causing “wrongful loss” to him and shareholders of RHC Holding.

Malvinder’s affidavit filed in the Supreme Court this year claims over Rs 6,000 crore in loans and advances are to be recovered from “various individuals and entities belonging/controlled/linked to a few major companies and individuals, not a party to the arbitral award”. These include companies like Prius Real Estate and Prius Commercial Projects, Sunil Godhwani as well as the RSSB head himself, it alleged.

Shabnam Dhillon, Gurinder Singh Dhillon’s wife, was a director in Prius Real Estate and Prius Commercial Projects until August 2016, shows the Ministry of Corporate Affairs (MCA).

“I say that these loans and advances have become due, however, due to the differences within the family, the recovery process for the same has been blocked… In order to further strengthen the recovery process, I have even initiated criminal proceedings against some of the borrowers who owe money to the judgment debtors before the Economic Offences Wing,” read Malvinder’s affidavit.

His EOW complaint alleges that Shivinder, along with Sunil Godhwani and Dhillon, conspired to “siphon” money from RHC and settle the Dhillon family’s debts and dues by absorbing them in RHC. This includes an alleged plan by the younger Singh to take over six companies, including Modland Wears, Best Healthcare and Fern Healthcare, “without initiating any financials and legal due diligence”. The EoW complaint further alleged that the six companies in question had extended loans exceeding Rs 1,000 crore to the Dhillon and Godhwani family.

Modland, Fern and Best — in which the MCA says Shivinder is a director — were involved in “fictitious and fraudulent” transactions of over Rs 400 crore withdrawn from Fortis through ICDs, according to the Sebi.

Malvinder claimed his younger brother signed a “family settlement” with Dhillon agreeing to “absolve” him of “any wrongdoing whatsoever and agreeing that no liabilities or legal proceedings or criminality would be attributable” to the RSSB chief under any circumstances.

Furthermore, Daiichi in 2018 alleged that the brothers had siphoned funds through a complex “web of companies”, to render its award, now valued over Rs 3,500 crore, a “mere paper decree”.

Comments

[Jesse]

I'd guess that Shabnam probably was an active party in this mess. Greed gets to everyone.

[Osho Robbins]

"It ain't over till the fat lady sings"
and so far the fat lady has not sung.

allegations are not convictions.

it's all closing in and who knows what might happen next.

So far the primary objective of all the court actions is to recover the money.
Daiichi Sankyo just wants the money back and if they can't get it from the Singhs they want the Singhs to get it from the companies they sent the funds to. Let's not forget that the court is not going to be impressed with the singh's saying that Dhillon has the funds because they (the singhs) sent the funds over voluntarily and if there was any fraud then they (the singhs) were a main player in that fraud and it was the Singhs who changed the dates on payments.

The singhs transferred the payments over so it was a joint operation, not instigated just by the Dhillon companies and this is why the court is seizing the singhs assets.

[Sonya]

None if this would even be an issue if Gurinder and his family had lived a simple, modest life. If he hadn't felt the need to open a Satsang Center in every foreign land possible. If Gurinder had taken the whole initiation process seriously and didn't change it to an open invitation to all. I'm not saying he should have kept it cultish (let's be honest it is and always will be a little "cultish") but he's happy to have anyone who applies be initiated because that's more money for RSSB and more opportunity for him to travel all over the world setting up centers and being the center of attention. I think the two things he loves most are travelling and playing center stage.

Let's face it. He LOVES being adored. And is quick to rebuke anyone not terribly enamored with him.

There's a name for that... I forget what it's called...

[Dharam]

RSSB disciples have progressed very much by reading this bllog that they are going to guide the Master as to how Hr should do the initiation process ,He should have opened centres in foreign or not.Master is being guided by the disciples.
In fact,such people are not at all intersted to obtain the property that Master wants to give to them .Wayout to get that property is told to them at the time of initiation and in satsangs.
Rather,you are going to tell him what to do and what not to do.Remember,
Master is the custodian of the God's property of Naam and such prople are going to get nothing at all from Him or Maharaj ji.

[Dharam]

RSSB path i,.e,The Path of Naam or Surat Shabad Yoga is a path of surrender and love to the Master to enable your Surat to connect to the Shabad and enjoy bliss. of Shabad so as to enable the Shsbad to take you to the Mansions of God.
But people are more interested in His business loans and irregularities ,if any ,rather than His property of Shabad
and His mission of spreading the message of Shabad.
A Shabaf Master has no karmas,He is connected to the God,He is God Himself.He is the ONE who has created the world and in this world,there is nothing perfect.So,He is free to do anything with His Mauz.True disciples will enjoy His Company and Darshans.
The false ones have been given opportunity to criticize Him so that they are made to stay away from Satsangs.They need not go to satsanfs at all.They are busy in analysing His business problems and irregularities,if any, that might have happened circumstabtially due to His Mauz.
Yes,His Mauz.People may laugh but the whole universe,perfect or imperfect, good or bad was made by His Mauz.

[Sonya]

Post RSSB, This pretty much sums it up for me:
https://youtu.be/i5tmHw33_v8

I’m grateful. And grateful to have a place to express these views. Not all of us dance to the drummer’s beat.

[Anonymous]

who applies be initiated because that's more money for RSSB and more ...Sonya

.....yea right

[Sonya]

@Dharam & Anonymous

“A Shabaf Master has no karmas“
...yeah, right.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dharam

You wrote that a Shabd Master has no karmas.

That isn't true. No one can be here without Karma Dharam. The saints teach this. They must adopt karma to be here.

And everyone should pay their bills. It's basic morality.

A true Shabd Master is humble and doesn't go around acting as if they are above the law. They don't steal hundreds of millions of dollars from other people.

They don't actually commit crimes that are harmful to others.. They are the model of Ahimsa.

Destroying a free school, building a new 200 bed charitable hospital with RSSB funds and then transferring it into Fortis for-profit hands, destroying another charitable hospital, these are not the accomplishments of a true Saint. They have nothing to do with material wealth.

But where there is a real Saint, you will find clever and charismatic copies, swindlers, fakes.

Of course, their disciples have no idea they are fakes. They play their role well!

But behind the scenes these swindlers have taken hundreds of millions of dollars and mixed up charitable money with private money - hungry investment schemes.

Since you know nothing of these events, your ignorance is understandable. But you can investigate and learn so that you do not end up incurring so much karma blindly defending a thief, or a true Master who has decided to become one. Because he was bored. Really, does that sound like a real Saint?

It sounds a bit entitled to me.

[Sonya]

Sorry, iPhone doesn’t know what Shabad is... so it translated to Shabdaf. Silly Siri... and Alexa and all these modern AI bots I just can’t seem to live without.

One day we’ll have a “hey Guru” app to guide us.
#can’t wait

[Meditator]

Even in the midst of such turmoils and uncertainty clouding Him and His extended family directly He may still persist on for meditating(by us) as much as possible to pierce the wall and go above the darkness inside and be free of this world's nonsense who unfortunately or even fortunately by His divine order He may have become an active part of it ( of this grave mischief and nonsense) so much so that we have become dumb before RSSB critics ( incldg Ex's).

He seem to be breaking this perception of perfectness of a Spiritual Guru in worldly dealings perfectly to the hilt so that none of us may use Him inappropriately for worldly gains anymore and then relax leaving aside the main theme of His teachings. I believe He has only demolished the business empire of His beloved Guru's family in this saga of distrust and deceit which allegedly is being masterminded by He himself and leaving any other of any harm.

[Jesse]

Meditator, you should give the same benefit of the doubt to everyone. Assume murderers are really just saints with a secret message that you need to decode. Fully embrace your insanity and apply it to all instead of limiting your assumptions of miracles to guys with large organized cults. At least until Manjit the savior comes back and shows us the real truth (hint: it's related to an obscure buddhist sect you've never heard of and entheogens from rare rainforest tribe).

[Dharam]

If we are going by our karmas,we can never get rid of them as they are enormous and cannot be paid off in millions of births.
Soami Ji said," Kro bhakti jo karam dha." That means," practice a path which can burn your karmas."
Again He says," Shabad karam ki rekh katave,Shabad Shabad se jai milave." means only Shabad can cut the root of karmas and Shabad(Living Shabad,Master) can merge you into the Shabad( Devine Melody).
So,my humble submission,do not go by the business dealings which might have crept due to negligebce and wrongdoing of His staff and by Mauz of the God. Practice the Shabad sincerely and experience the bliss Go inside and you will find the value if the Master.Outside,you will find a simple man in Him but inspiring you to go inside and have experiences for yourself.

[Sonya]

@Jesse

Much appreciated. Humor always puts things in perspective.

@All RSSBers
The Great Delusion is that ONE man is perfect. Maybe I should have capitalized perfect too because it is absurd. Gurinder’s greatest weakness is that he thinks he’s perfect—without. He believes he truly is a “Saint” without the ability to make mistakes. That falls into my definition of insanity. It’s like the inmates running the asylum. Beas is Bedlam.

And now the light pierces through the darkness but the darkness does not recognize the light.

[Sonya]

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! You know how you say I’ll start my diet Monday and then just enjoy the rest of your weekend doing whatever you want? Or maybe that’s just me. I feel like I’m on an RSSB scandal binge and only plan to take a break next Monday... or thereabouts. Maybe.

Till then... the latest: https://m.economictimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/foul-play-behind-skipping-religare-offer-sunil-godhwani/amp_articleshow/68915102.cms

Who is this Siddharth Mehta? And why is Sunny all of the sudden speaking? When did he come out of hiding? Gurinder must be feeling the squeeze.

All is fair in love and war.

[Meditator]

Mr Jesse,

We need to judge this Man who allegedly impersonates as True Saint and worshipped by all and one except for a few, some of very few on this forum in two different frames. In one frame he has surpassed normal human tendencies and has behaved and talked and operated beyond sanity.
The other frame declares Him as our beloved Father- God, the top class spiritual teachers this world has seen bracketed with Jesus Christ , Nanak ..

Next since He represents the trusted hierarchy which has benefitted many spiritually and same stands even documented and also known through word of mouth and still claims bonafide Truth - similar benefits through meditation. Forget earthly miracles which even though may happen but for genuine seekers of truth this can not be a basis of analysis and knowledge about a Perfect master.

The others who are legal offenders and murderers as Ram Rahim can not be given that genuine benefit of doubt as their hierarchy is not well known and as much trusted. Besides how much benefit and extent the seekers got the benefit spiritually is not clear at least to me.

Yes, this is not the final word from me. Its just an afterthought. Let the events unfold further to know more of it.. Regards.

.

[Dharam]

Spence
It is very true that one who connects with shabad,Shabad can take him to the regions which are beyond Karmas.Practice of Shabad burns the Karmas.Who asks for the debts of Karmas? Mind,,Kal and Mahakal!
Who will ask for the debt when you leave behind mind,Kall and Mahakal?
It is Master and Shavad who take you beyond these by burning/forgiving your Karmas.
How ignorant are you to think that the Master who takes enormous souls beyond Karmas by burning/forgiving/paying off partially,Can He be affected by Karmas?No,not at all.
Go inside and see for yourself.Millions of gods and goddesses stand in row and bow their heads before the Master..Kal and Mahakal tremble on seeing Him,Who is there to ask account of Karmasfrom Him? He has come to save millions from Karmas and to take them back to Lord.

[In Search Of]

With reference to Sonya's link above regarding Sunil Godhwani, it's too much of a coincidence that he releases this info now. When things are starting to heat up in his direction with SEBI on their asses, he drops this to deflect attention. It could be that a new finding is coming out and he wants to have some direction away from it.

Not saying it's false info, but the timing screams something is up here, especially with him not having a statement on these affairs for months, and now this...

Very strange indeed.

Just a further comment here personally, I don't have any animosity to anyone, even GSD. What I don't like or appreciate is dishonesty and beating around the bush regarding answers to simple questions. Just state the facts without religious mumbo jumbo. Whe I see comments like GSD has no karma, it drives me nuts. He himself said he has karmas and he can't take on anyone's karmas. So it's disingenuous to state what you wrote and you lose credibility in writing this Dharam. It's easy to say "go inside and see for yourself". How many people can say that they can go inside and see this?

I think if you "went in inside" then you probably are in for a wake up call, no pun intended.

[Dharam]

In Search Of
Baba Ji never said that He has Karmas.He does say that He can't take anyone's Karmas.
RSSB teaching or Santmat is based on 3pillars:- 1.Sant (Saint), Satsang abd Naam or Shabad.
He means to say that one should practice Shabad and only by listening Shabad,our Karmas will be vanished,prarabdha has to be born.
Saint has no KARMAS.His real form is SHABAD.If you do not believe in Shabad form of Saimt,Santmat is not for you.
With Regards

[Osho Robbins]

@Dharam
Have you personally gone "inside" and seen the millions of gods and goddesses bow their head before the master?
Or is this something you read in a book?
Have you seen Kal and his brother MahaKal tremble in front of the master.

Reading books just gives you concepts.

GSD has said that there is no Kal. And no Dayal. That is a story, a myth. Not literal.
Neither did Kal stand on one leg doing bhakti.
Instead GSD says there is only the ONE and your job is to realize it.

[Dharam]

Osho Robbin
Well,you believe in Baba Ji's statement that there is only the One and your job is to realize it.Do you think you can realize the One with your efforts only and without the help and support of the Master.And who put you on the Path- Master only.That One can be realized only with the help of Shabad and the Master.

[Dharam]

@ Osho Robbins
You know in Santmat,Personal experiences should not be shared and even if I tell you,you are not going to believe ,while you are not believing experiences of the Saints.

[Jesse]

"You know in Santmat,Personal experiences should not be shared"

This isn't "santmat" as much as it is a policy of RSSB. I've never seen this anywhere else, and the books of most "saints" are nothing but lists of experiences. It's most likely banned by RSSB because RSSB initiates have the least amount of experiences. This is attributable to their guru being a money grabbing conman.

[Jesse]

"Instead GSD says"

So he prints books that say one thing and then says another thing in his talks. You know what this is called? Lying.

Who cares what Gurinder Dhillon says? lol that guy is an idiot. Stop quoting him as if any of this matters.

[In Search Of]

He has karmas, otherwise he wouldn't be here. And please explain to me why he has severe back pain and went through cancer treatment if he has no karma. I think I know what your answer will be: he's taking on everyone's karma's. But as you stated above, he can't do that.

Explanation please....

[Jesse]

"top class spiritual teachers this world has seen bracketed with Jesus Christ , Nanak .."

All I know about either of them is that their names are in popular books that people use to ritualistically escape their problems. When and where did you meet them, and what did they do in your presence that made you think they were superhumans?

"Forget earthly miracles which even though may happen but for genuine seekers of truth this can not be a basis of analysis and knowledge about a Perfect master."

According to who? This is religious gibberish. How do you know that the supreme creator of this world doesn't or wouldn't use miracles to prove his existence to people? You don't know anything. Neither do I. You just listed a bunch of unprovable things and tried passing them off as facts. Nobody knows other than Manjit Bhai Super Jatt, the Lord of Lords whose sacred name was created by a Punjabi name generator.

This is all a sick game you're all playing.

[In Search Of]

Jesse wrote: "Nobody knows other than Manjit Bhai Super Jatt, the Lord of Lords whose sacred name was created by a Punjabi name generator."

I laughed at that so hard I almost pissed myself! That;s just way too funny.

More of that please!

[Dharam]

@In Search Of
Cancer and back pain were all Sangat's Karmas.Saints have no Karmas at all.
It is his humility snd desire for the Sangat to do more and more bhajan and simran makes Him say that He can't take Karmas.He wants Sangat to do more and more meditation.That is why He somehow changes statements,as parents change statement before their children ,to put them on path.
These all statements,question and answers are between a lover and beloved that you can never understand.Here,there is no value of what is asked and what is answered,.Here,only lover and beloved are expressing their love for each other.You will never understand about this love between a satsangi and Master.It cannot be explained to you,nor can it be understood by you.
With Regards
.

[Meditator]

@Jesse

Perhaps all of us may not have been scratching our heads for so long after some of us having had become disillusioned with RSSB spiritual practice of realising oneself and God which stand extrapolated linked up with all the mystics of the east west north n south of world in their advocacy of God's realisation that id provable to oneself than demonstrable.

Trouble has cone only because it could not be demonstrated for others and so called preachers of truth - even Perfect Masters can go scot free despite alleged embezelments and deceit.

Still until He appears there is only bliss which can not be attributed to Him therefore and can not be confirmed by the respondents as because of Him entirely or its just a natural consequence of meditation.

How do we trust or distrust.

The way forward may be to check their either frames where they claim to be present. But in the pursuit of demolishing their spiritual face we need be careful and must give due care to their esteemed hierarchy if you believe in spiritual kind of thing besides considering His erstwhile and current beneficiaries of the system and their version or try yourself.

Helpless we stand when truths externally are yet to be fully exposed with any explanations reasons from its perpetrators. We can not say that it conforms with highest principles of mystics and you may be right in your way of criticising it if only limited to earthly logics leaving its spiritual angle.

There could be no linkage that may be established between the two frames even if He is crucified for His alleged sins as the picture what is clear to oneself can not be challenged by an external observer. They will retain their high degree of spiritual emotions despite their criticism.

Wish that the things if need be addressed in the higher frame of reference that is spiritual if have found inconsistencies in the lower frame of Guru.

Regards.

[In Search Of]

Like I said, more mumbo jumbo. You can't use logic with someone like this. Believe in what you want to believe, doesnt hurt anyone, as long as you're happy doing what you're doing.

Peace out.

[In Search Of]

With regard to money and spirituality, Soami Ji gave up the business of his father's money lending business soon after his dad passed away.

He felt it wrong to hold people ransom with interest charges. He asked his brother to call everyone who owed his business money and asked them to pay whatever they could. If they couldn't pay, the brother was instructed to tear up the contracts.

This is what Saints do. They run from money and fame. So in this case, GSD began his investing AFTER he took over the gaddi. What does this mean to everyone else?

Growing up we were told money is a sin and one shouldn't be greedy. Only make enough to take care of the family and lead a good comfortable life.

I guess some of us want to a little more comfort than others. Wonder what Jaimal Singh would say about this considering he lived in a mud hut on the very grounds GSD has renovated his penthouse.

This is what irks me. Do as I say, not as I do. Sheesh!

[Jesse]

"Helpless we stand"
and
"Believe in what you want to believe, doesnt hurt anyone, as long as you're happy doing what you're doing."

This is my opinion on spirituality. We're helpless. There is absolutely no way to know anything, including mind blowing supernatural experiences. And being helpless, I guess let people do what they're doing as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

Now defining what is hurtful is its own huge battle. So we're again screwed.

[In Search Of]

True Jesse. Following the RSSB thinking, without even knowing it, I had developed a sense of superiority, that I'm better than so and so because they dont have a living guru or that their guru is not the real lineage. Puke.

I find I'm more interested in discovering new thoughts, ideas, understanding that other people follow what feels good for them and I have no place to judge.

I have more empathy for people outside of the RSSB circle and not constantly trying to get in the inner circle of sevadars playing favorites, when they claim they're not. There is an air of arrogance that pervades the local senior teams, but they can't see past it. So I leave it to them, and I leave myself to my discoveries and new experiences.

Be nice, be happy, and most of all relax and use some common sense. I'm trying, I really am.

[manjit]

Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"
Jesse wrote: ".......Manjit........"

I wrote: Excellent Jesse, your simran is going very, very well!

With constant repition of this powerful Maha Mantra, your tendency towards exceptional immaturity, trolling, making lots of noise without signifying anything at all, staggering lack of knowledge, insight or experience masked by incredible & badly misplaced arrogance etc etc may eventually lessen.

In the meantime, you may continue to kid both yourself and others like Brian, that your utterly vacuous, childish and inane "commentary" on, well, anything, is something other than lazy, clichéd and juvenile.

Jesse wrote, in a variety of forms, encouraging us to take his views as something other than meaningless noise: "All I know about either of them....."

Bro, aren't you the dude who on several occassions linked to a website about the company/organisation "Dhillon Group" whose business included liquor, meat products (or whatever), and based on that criticised Gurinder Singh for his hypocrisy in getting involved in these things.......simply because, errrrrm, of the name "Dhillon"? This is the kind of foolish thinking that one witnesses in believers of bizarre and ridiculous conspiracy theories like "pizzagate"....you wouldn't believe in such bizarre and ridiculous things, would you Jesse?

You don't know anything about anyone, Jesse, you are simply engaged in a mindless & meaningless conversation with yourself, with the occassional pat on the back by like-minded ideologues like Brian who pat anyone & everyone with the same ideology on the back, regardless of how utterly absurd, vacuous, erroneous, naive & immaturely those views are stated.

Focus more on your simran of the great Maha Mantra Manjit, Jesse....your vain & immature babbling on forums like these will only encourage your fellow choir singers, I cannot imagine anyone with any real intelligence, experience, impartiality etc having any interest in your comments. They are completely & utterly void of any substance, on every level but the most uninformed, immature & superficial.

Yours,

Manjit, Manjit, Manjit :)

[manjit]

Further to my recent comment (which hasn't been posted yet), there are a few more things I'd like to add.

It is a small - or deluded by ideology - mind that conflates transparent & even admitted bile, spite, frustration, meanness, misplaced arrogance, ignorance, immaturity etc etc with wit, humour, insight etc.

Despite what those like Brian may say.

It should be made clear - there are gatekeepers to real & deep understanding, experience, knowledge, wisdom, perpetual experiences of joy, awe & astonoishment.

They make loud noises & fling excrement at passers-by, trying to distract you from the gate they are keeping.

They are self appointed keepers of the gate because they have absolutely zero understanding, either intellectual or experiential, of what lies beyond the gate. They are full of spite, anger, animosity - and very, very little else. They will shout long & loud about what delusions lay on the other side of the gate....

.....despite it being beyond obvious to anyone with even the smallest level of conscious alertness they have never even had a brief peek, let alone deep experience, of what is behind the gate.

Be careful when in the public marketplace. Be extremely alert and aware to a) what it is you want, b) what it is you have to offer, c) what a particular vendor has for sale.

If you are not alert you may not realise that a) you don't know what you want, b) you don't know what you have to offer and c) the vendor has nothing but frustration, ignorance, bile, spite, ignorance & nihilism for sale, despite all their loud marketing.

In these circumstances, a deal can be struck very easily and quickly.

A very, very bad deal.

Caveat emptor.

But to each their own.

[Jesse]

YES! MANJIT IS BACK!
Everyone read his comments carefully. He's literally the only person on earth who has read a book. If you play your cards right he might point to some lama that he knows but you're not ready for.

Goddamn. He is SMART and he knows it.

[Jesse]

Manjit "I can't make a comment without saying utterly vacuous" Singh. The most smartest man in his village!

And yes, Manjit you fucking retard. There is something worthy of investigation concerning the Podesta brothers. I know the late night talk show satsangs from where you get the right opinions have poisoned the well and all, but read the relevant emails. They're weird to say the least. Look into those guys connections with convicted pedophile Epstein etc.

Nothing scares a midwit who tries to weirdly flex his vocab like seeking truth.

[manjit]

Jesse: Petulant noises, but for once actually signifying something!: The level of discernment, intellect, knowledge & maturity.

Manjit: Hahahahahahaha. Ha. Haha.

Too easy.

Priceless!

As you were all :)

[Jesse]

"It should be made clear - there are gatekeepers to real & deep understanding, experience, knowledge, wisdom, perpetual experiences of joy, awe & astonoishment.

They make loud noises & fling excrement at passers-by, trying to distract you from the gate they are keeping"

We've all read spiritual books, doofus. This is just another magical wizard trope in your long list of hopes and dreams. Nothing real at all in what you say. You're a clown.

[Jesse]

Manjit is the perfect example of why the education system fails when it becomes for profit. He's too stupid to think, but his drunken father berated him night and day telling him he'd be nothing if he wasn't a "topper."

So Manjit spends 8 years in an English uni filling his average brain with words and cliches that he thinks are sophisticated but are truly vapid philosophical brain farts that regrettably were popularised. That's why everything he says is seeking authoritative approval.

In India they repeat this stupid saying "when the chela is ready the guru appears." Manjit will take this stupid statement and write a 80 page exegesis that sane people can reduce to 5 words.

"Charismatic cult leaders rule Indians."

That's the whole of it. Manjit can't produce anything valuable and isn't charismatic so he seeks solace in vicariously living through imaginary enlightened beings who hold total sway over his entire being. He's no different than Dharam or One Initiated except that he wasted a lot of money tricking himself into thinking he was worthy of post graduate education. Sad!

This entire subject of consciousness is hilarious. We're already in hell. There's no escape,baby. No escape! No baba. No entheogen. No knowledge. Nothing will help you.

[Georgy Porgy]

I just don’t get this constant stream of propaganda.

One question: did you (and do you) not have a deep respect for the guru that initiated you all those years ago?

Did you think he was a fool?
Do you think he was a crook or unkind or devious?

Why would he appoint someone with those qualities?

I suspect the opposite, which is he was a v good judge of character.

[Brian Hines]

Georgy Porgy, facts aren't propaganda. You're deeply mistaken. Try pointing out problems with the facts presented in the Indian financial press, if you can. Don't attack the messenger for a truthful message.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - hello

I must admit with my sitting on the fence - you are right. FACTs cannot be disputed as it is really happening. It can be absorbed by an impartial viewer from out space.

Some explanations are needed by RSSB -no reaction is no defence

[Sonya]

What about before he became the guru? Did he have karmas then? Obviously. So, one day he's a sinner the next a saint. Where did all the karma go? I guess his Master took on that karma...

And now he's perfect and can't make mistakes and therefore no need to apologize for anything. It's not an enviable position though.

He must really like people to keep taking on so many initiates. Sounds exhausting. If I had been appointed Master (and that would be as likely as Lucifer becoming the next Pope) then I would have done everything in my power to make the Sangat smaller. No overseas centers. No new buildings at Dera. Just wind it down... I like people but not enough to listen to their problems all day long every day.

[Sonya]

Georgie Porgie, pudding and pie,
Kissed the girls and made them cry,
When the boys came out to play,
Georgie Porgie ran away.

I’ve clearly run out of things to say. Must take some time off from this for self reflection. A very foreign feeling (I think they call it apathy) just set in...

[Arjuna]

@ Sonya - hello.

We’re to close to GSD? You mentioned that you have met him?

What is he like in one to one situations?

[Sonya]

Hi Arjuna,

Sometimes he’s sweet, often times very funny and flirtatious. He got really mad at me for something I said about him to someone else which was true but not very flattering. That’s why our last encounter was so ugly. Deep down he was just really angry at me for criticizing his behavior.

I don’t know what to say, Arjuna. He’s a different person to different people. He might be a true gentleman to some, a friend to others, a Saint in some people’s eyes. He’s extremely emotional and passionate and his moods span both ends up the spectrum often changing unexpectedly.

I’m actually really glad you asked this question. For some reason while thinking about it, the questions I had were answered. I have been angry at him for months now for how harshly he attacked me last December but I know exactly what his motive was. I reported some things he said and did that seemed completely inappropriate and several women were complaining about. The word got back to him and of course that’s when he completely turned. He does not like being rejected, I can tell you that. And I mean that in ever sense—rejected as a guru or saint or friend, anything.

Sometimes, most times he was really sweet or playful or funny... but then things get out of hand. I think he’s relaxed so much over the years that he doesn’t worry as much about what he says or does but that becomes an issue and it’s something that the people working closely with him at the Dera often address him about.

He’s very human. That’s just the best way to put it—very human. Aside from the fact that most people at the meetings seem to believe he’s God, he says that he isn’t and that he doesn’t take on karmas. He doesn’t talk much about religious things really... the only spiritual comments he ever initiates are about karma and meditation. All I know about his belief system is that he believes very strongly in karma and says meditation will help. He doesn’t talk much about the previous masters or the saints. And he only gives Satsang 19 times a year. The rest of the time he sits and looks at the crowd while someone else is giving Satsang.

So, on average he gives Satsang about 19 to 20 times a year and the rest of his teachings come out in Q&A sessions. Occasionally he’ll travel overseas and gets the sudden urge to give Satsang at a center where he’s visiting. But most of the time he listens and then answers questions.

No one can tell you whether he’s right for you or not... sometimes more information just makes us more confused. You just have to listen to your heart and to your gut...

Best,
S

[Arjuna]

Hello Sonya

Thank you for responding. I enjoyed reading what you wrote. I was interested in what your observations were.

I still have not made my mind up. My gut feelings are everywhere.

Truth be told that is not what I expected him to be. I thought love and kindness to all would be the main quality. Then again that could be my conditioning whilst I was on the path taking shape.

If I may ask- what did you say about him to others that made him so angry? I thought Saints have conquered anger (or is this my conditioning kicking in again).

Regards

A

[Jen]

Hi Sonya, here's another point of view.

You say: "That’s why our last encounter was so ugly. Deep down he was just really angry at me for criticizing his behavior."

From what you have said about this encounter with Gurinder here on this blog, my understanding is that he was probably calling you out, like chastising you or putting you in your place. I can also see from your comments here how you are very blunt and outspoken and not very tactful.

If he was a Zen Master you would probably have received a slap with a heavy stick. Look up Zen Slap.

Unfortunately you have taken his words and actions so personally and this is all about ego. You were and maybe still are someone who was in his inner circle and you probably overstepped the mark because of your judgmental and outspoken attitude. A little bit of humility will help.

I think what Gurinder said to you was probably the best lesson ever. Try to look at his words as a gift, it can be an awakening for you and help you progress on this path. We all have to take the slings and arrows in life to advance and hopefully develop humility and pure love.

[Sonya]

Hi Arjuna and Jen,

OK, I'm going to attempt to respond to both of you with one very long answer. :)

At the Dera during a Q&A session I asked Gurinder what happens to a soul when it commits suicide because I had tried to commit suicide twice in a 6 month period when I was 26. I asked him this because I thought maybe my thoughts and actions of self harm during that period of my life and my continual self loathing that existed after that event might be at the root cause of my panic attacks which I had been suffering from for 15 years. They started about a year before I became a satsangi. I thought perhaps the panic attackes (I was diagnosed with severe panic disorder because the attacks would last longer than an hour. One attack lasted 8 hours and I had to go to the hospital. It took me 6 months after that to feel like a normal human being again. It felt like one day I was a normal person, then I had an 8 hour panic attack and the next day I was paraplegic. I wasn't really paraplegic, it's just that's how much my life had changed and permanently changed. I guess having a really long panic attack is like going through battle and then you have PTSD from the panic attack.

BTW, It was a miracle that I lived both times because I was truly very happy that I would never wake up again. I didn't leave a note... it wasn't a cry for help. I tried to make sure no one would find me till it was over. And if you ask me why I tried to commit suicide (looking back it seems really dumb) but I was really depressed after my boyfriend and I broke up with my boyfriend. We had a very serious relationship... I madly in love... he asked me to marry him and then I found out he was seeing someone else. You know, the usual.

Anyway, yes I am fairly blunt and outspoken and the only reason I shared something this personal was because there was no way for me to get an interview with him and I wasn't sure I'd ever be back at the Dera. He said "nothing happens to the soul it's just he mind, depression is a first world problem you don't see poor people getting depressed because they're too busy working. Stop feeling sorry for yourself." That's what he said. Just like that.

The weird thing is that I had really been starting to question Sant Mat and him, however, even then I was very much in awe of him and somewhat "in-love" in a Master/disciple kind of way. I thought he would be the last person on earth that would ever hurt me. My heart was absolutely broken and if my husband hadn't been with me I guarantee you I would have taken the 3 months supply of sleeping pills that I happened to bring with me. I would have taken them all at once right after that happened. So, I went from the memory of one betrayal and broken heart to the realization that there isn't really anyone you can totally trust in this world.

So, maybe I deserved it. The reason I think he was so harsh was because I had been talking with some ladies after one meeting about how inappropriate he had behaved. They brought it up and I joined in because we all witnessed the same thing. Basically he was just being super flirtatious with some young women but it's not like he "took them home or anything". It just seemed a bit off-color. And I think the word got back to him that some people were concerned about it. Of course, that may not be it at all. He may never have even heard about it.

Maybe I just needed someone to tell me that I was a selfish fool for trying to commit suicide twice over some stupid guy (I didn't tell him about the guy - I didn't say exactly why I did it--just told him I had been depressed). And maybe I needed to realize that a guru isn't going to be there for you either to comfort you. Maybe he wanted me to learn that it's a mean, mean world, that he and that only the god inside of me can ever comfort me. Maybe he also wanted me to understand that love is bullshit. He also told me that mental health problems are a first world problem. He made that very clear over and over. During that session someone asked him about people with serious mental health problems (like it was their family member or something) and he just shook his head and said you don't want to know what I think about mental illness. He said that. Exactly like that. So, I would ever ask him about depression or anxiety if I were you. And God forbid you mention anything more serious like bipolar or schizophrenia. I think besides being born blind at birth, having a serious mental health problem like bipolar or schizophrenia are the only other things that will keep you from being able to be initiated today.

Now all that is very dark. It's hard for me to see how I could have been in such a dark place like that at one time in my life when I'm usually really happy these days. I also don't have panic attacks anymore. After that I experience I left Sant Mat for good and when I left Sant Mat I stopped having panic attacks. The panic attacks were horrific and I no longer have them, nor do I have depression.

So, yes Jen, I think you're right. He gave me exactly what I needed. And what I need is not him.

[Jen]

Hi Sonya,

Thank you so much for opening up to us and expressing your feelings. I also suffer from depression at times and then have to be strict with myself and pull myself together. Glad you are not having panic attacks anymore.

So happy that you are taking back your own personal power. This is one of my mantras, because when we are over sensitive and highly emotional we do give our power away to others. Expecting someone else to save us is when we have that neediness inside and we must learn to have faith in our own self.

I won't say anymore, very grateful to you for not being upset with my comment! Remember, you are your own Master!!

[t@o]

true, there is no answer, no solution, no escape, no way out, no thing in this world can help. resistance is futile. surrender is the only option. but surrender only comes as a rare gift of mercy. surrender comes to the one who dares to love god, rather than love himself. fools and rascals all still spend their desperate lives clamoring for naught. this so-called material world is somewhat like a prison-house, or rather, a lower dimensional reformatory of sorts. the walls, the bars, the barriers of the prison are made out of the impulse to control, to possess, and to enjoy. but, if one simply becomes humble, sincere, serving... then the walls will open, the bars will melt, and the barriers will turn into pathways. hell into heaven. the choice is, as it ever was: to reign in hell, or to serve in heaven.

[Marko]

Is that the original tAo man ? Are you old friend?

[padam]

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[subrat]

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[Alodeep]

https://indianexpress.com/article/india/the-dera-by-the-beas-6155961/

[HS 😳]

I think at some point we’re going to have to talk about the thing that none of us really wants to—the unfortunate coincidence of the timing of Shabnam’s death. It makes GSD look guilty AF.