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April 17, 2019

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Hello,
Has anyone gone to a Satsang and directly questioned Mr. Dhillon regarding his legal troubles (or lack thereof), during the question/answer sessions?
Wouldn't that be a good place to start, if someone is genuinely serious about getting to the truth? It can't be that difficult, given that the doors are open to the public.

I’m so tempted to post a link to a song on YouTube but I’m going to refrain this time. Maybe Gurinder will post some of the entertaining albeit slightly awkward videos of Dera’s Christmas parties that he gets filmed each year.

Hi BSingh,

I have been assaulted for just asking a question about a very serious personal matter. I'm certainly not going to ask him about his financial problems... or even insinuate that he has problems to his face. It would just turn into a fur flying cat fight.

Have you ever asked him a question?? If you catch him on a bad day and ask the wrong thing you might see a completely different person. He's not a Libran for sure... (that's a reference from a previous post). ;)

But, by all means, do give it a try and let us know how it goes...

Just a quick guess, but I think there are at least 50 RSSB books. All of them with the exact same boilerplate about the path. Seekers go from RSSB book to book, thinking the next one will say something novel. But they really all do same the very same thing. RSSB isn't like the cults of Rajneesh or Da Free John, where every book (sometimes) makes for fascinating new reading. All RSSB books are pretty much the same, and as far as their explication of the RSSB religion, exactly the same. Take it from Trump, RSSB lit is similar to the Adi Granth. Not that Trump, but Ernest Trumpp, who concluded that Adi Granth was not worth translating in full--"the same few ideas, he thought, being endlessly repeated." Sounds familiar. Trumpp described the Granth as "incoherent and shallow in the extreme, and couched at the same time in dark and perplexing language, in order to cover these defects. It is for us Occidentals a most painful and almost stupefying task, to read only a single Rag." He could be describing RSSB pubs.

To give Gurinder the benefit of the doubt on his 29 yr lack of publishing, he is supposed to have said that the current RSSB books say it all. It's hard to disagree with him on that. Then again, there's the elusive sant mat 2.0 that Gurinder is said to espouse. Something else I'm waiting on.

Hi Jay,

One profound difference with Gurinder is he teaches that the Masters can’t take on other peoples’ karmas. I have to ask, if the Masters don’t help free their disciples from their “sins” then why does he make such a big show of giving darshan?

What did Charan say about darshan and why he attended Great Mater’s satsangs? Darshan supposedly (according to the books) erases lifetimes of sins. But Gurinder has made it clear that darshan doesn’t do anything really—it certainly doesn’t remove a multitude of sins according to Gurinder because the Masters can’t take on sins or remove sins, or forgive people of their sins. Gurinder says you must suffer, you must go within to see all the sins you’ve committed and just suffer, and somehow that will deliver you. Gurinder is like a rose garden with no petals.

According to Gurinder, the only responsibility a Master has is to tell you to meditate. He’s like a fitness coach that doesn’t do anything except tell you to exercise. He’s like the teacher who doesn’t do anything except tell you to learn. He’s like the college medical professor who doesn’t do anything except tell you to perform surgery. He doesn’t “do” anything. He says, “Just do it”. But he doesn’t do anything himself other than build buildings and tear them down and build more. Speaking of which he actually destroyed the only cool spot at the Dera—the funky tea shack by the flower garden. He took out that particular flower garden too... He paved paradise and put up a parking lot.

To be fair, he does make sure the Dera stays clean. It is spotless. No leaves or dust. It runs incredibly efficiently. Sevadars clean the Dera so repeatedly it practically puts extra wear and tear on things. But it certainly is clean and uniform—one of the most spotless townships in all of India.

According to one of his friends, he hates leaves. Just hates them. That’s why women sweep the streets of the Dera 24/7. 😆

I know he stays very busy... seems to be busy on an administrative level, lots of meetings and emails, phone calls, texts and catching up on news as well as occasionally glancing over recent blog posts by one of his ex-bodyguards, Brian, who at one time really and truly was ready and willing to take a bullet for him.

A small home is easy to manage. A medium sized home requires a little more work and with a very large home you have so much more work to do just to maintain it that you have to hire a few people. Then with a mansion you have to hire an entire staff to keep the place in order. And in a mansion everything is soooo incredibly inconvenient. Just to run to the kitchen or one of the living rooms or dining rooms can take 15 to 20 minutes! So you end up turning your bedroom suite into a studio apartment. And then you’re comfortable again.

@Sonya
He is the MASTER of Dera.Dera is only for those who accept Him as Master.Master is Master.He can do anything.Why should others go to Dera who do not have faith in Mastership of the Master.
Regards

Hi Dharam,

I think a lot of people go to Dera to see him in person and try to make better sense of the path. People put forth a lot of effort getting to the Dera because they are searching for answers and solace. People hope they will find it there, but it isn’t there. It’s in your heart.

Still, a there are also many people who go just for a 3 week “vacation” of catching up with old friends, making new friends and to enjoy their Guru’s Q&As held every night either at their hostel or the Mand Pandal.

"Dera is only for those who accept Him as Master."
Punjabis tend to disagree with you. To them the dera is a nice comfy tourist place they can get clean surroundings and free food in. All paid for by rich westerners and I'm guessing stolen shareholder money.

All this is so stupid. Let's talk about sex, drugs and everything else you desire so strongly but forcefully suppress.

Gurinder is not teaching.
He is de-teaching.

Sonya raises a good point in the matter of the sant mat guru "taking" the initiate's karma. I don't have the knowledge at hand or the time to fully investigate sant mat's theology on karma. Others here likely know more than I do. But I'll offer that Gurinder's predecessor, Charan Singh, said this about karma. I've emphasized some of the words in all caps:

"Saints SOMETIMES do take the karmas of their disciples, and being in the domain of Kal, they themselves have to account for those karmas on their bodies. That is why we feel that they are suffering physically, from a health point of view. Actually, they are above the cycle of karmas and CAN clear any karma. They do not like to break the law of nature, being in the domain of Kal." https://www.rssb.org/2017-02-15.html

As I read that passage, and search my memory of Charan's writings and talks, I don't recall him ever promoting the "guru takes on the karma of the initiate" theme. Charan may have done so, I just don't recall it. On the other hand, this theme about the guru taking on a portion of the karma of everyone he initiates in a big part of the message of the Kirpal Singh line of sant mat gurus. So it must have roots in sant mat theology, otherwise RSSB and Kirpal line initiates wouldn't be aware of it. Mabye it's in Sar Bachan? But even if it is found there, how to explain why Charan Singh either ignored, downplayed, or "changed" this particular part of sant mat's teachings?

@Marko,

Are you saying Gurinder is trying to deprogram satsangis?

Do you think Gurinder believes in God? I mean he no longer believes on Kal. He definitely believes in the law of cause and effect, but maybe he doesn't truly believe in a God in the way that the Sant Mat books of 'ol proclaim. Hmm... I really wonder. He says just sit in meditation and enjoy it--doesn't care much about the inner experience, just sit. He has a nice collection of Buddhist statues outside his office... or he did a few years ago anyway.

Maybe Gurinder sees "God" the same way Buddhists do but is trying to gently, slowly move people towards that line of thinking.

Right now I feel like I'm in the Unicorn Room in Argentina while gurus are committing Boltonous crimes.

Hi Jay,

Very interesting. Thanks for the link.

I'm going to sum this up by saying be a Master must be the suckiest job ever. You know what, this isn't going to make me agree with Gurinder but I will openly acknowledge that he has a really shitty job and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. I GENUINELY mean that. The more I think about it... I feel a little more sympathy.

And then secondly, why do they issues with breaking the law of "nature"

I found this - Feb 2017 - a small portion of the article in the link you sent.

"So Masters come on a mission of mercy. They have no load of their own, but they are so kind-hearted and merciful that they also suffer along with their disciples because they want to help them. They have to hear everybody’s woeful tale, everybody’s miserable story, everybody’s problem. Nobody will come and share his joy with him. Everybody has to share his tears with him. So naturally one is also affected to that extent….

Saints sometimes do take the karmas of their disciples, and being in the domain of Kal, they themselves have to account for those karmas on their bodies. That is why we feel that they are suffering physically, from a health point of view. Actually, they are above the cycle of karmas and can clear any karma. They do not like to break the law of nature, being in the domain of Kal. ..

Devote maximum time in your own progress,so that you are left with no time for criticizm of others.

Is Gurinder guilty of changing sant mat? Arguing contra:

Virtually every sant mat guru has deviated from the teachings of his own guru. Over time many things have been abolished. The hookah smoking, toe sucking, Vaishnava mandals of Shiv's day. The fantastical claims of guru bilocation and intimate knowledge of personal karma made by Jaimal Singh. Sawan's Singh's initiation of children is no more, along with his statements about eating an egg leading to future rebirths.

These changes all point to Charan Singh, who was quite aware of what his predecessors taught but nevertheless chose to take no part in such practices. Did Charan Singh thus "change" the sant mat teachings?

In my view, Charan's presentation of the sant mat guru was highly metaphorical. That is, Charan resisted the personal identity of "Godman" at every turn. He never once claimed or suggested that he had any pesonal spiritual powers whatsoever.

It could be said that Gurinder is merely carrying on Charan's tradition of presenting the guru as a metaphor.

Toe sucking? Vaishnava mandal's. Good God. Weird.

Well, put in this perspective, then I would expect Sant Mat to change even more dramatically over the lives of the next two Masters at Beas. Then again, Gurinder may have decided it's just too cruel to appoint someone to that kind of position. Perhaps he'll leave it as a little town with a long spiritual heritage.

I have such mixed feelings about Sant Mat. I mean, I don't agree with the basic teachings but I do respect the no drugs and alcohol... completely follow vegetarianism, meditation and living a moral life. Okay, admittedly the only one of those that I'm really good at is the vegetarian one, but I do try really hard to follow the other four. However, since my view on karma is quite different to Gurinder's I don't seem myself going back. Other than that I don't really care... once you take him off the pedestal it's pretty easy to accept him for who he is.

I mean, he still has the whole media and financial troubles to deal with. But that's not my problem. I have to many problems of my own... LOL

Criticism of others is the basis of sant mat. Sant mat criticizes all religions, followers, and relentlessly criticizes how initiates conduct themselves. Goose, gander.

"That is, Charan resisted the personal identity of "Godman" at every turn. "

Yes he did this precisely by printing a book of personal hagiography that had his picture on the front page with the caption "perfect living master."

@Jesse: I'd agree that Charan allowed his followers to produce all his RSSB books with covers, fly leafs and introductions that unambiguously denote Charan as PLM. Yet Charan also denied being any better than the average satsangi, and said that "the real master is the shabd." Whether this contradiction is all a sublime paradox of spiritual truth or a bunch of BS is for each of us to judge. My overall point was that if Gurinder is guilty of changing the RS teachings by saying the Master is something of a fiction, then Charan should also be held accountable for the very same revision.

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