RSSB guru responds to allegations of criminality (weirdly)

Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, has been decidedly silent about allegations of criminality (financial fraud, death threats) made against him by his cousin, Malvinder Mohan Singh.

But someone emailed me this exchange that reportedly occurred on April 10, 2019 during a surprise visit by the guru to a meeting of the Singapore RSSB group. I won't even attempt to comment on it, since the guru's responses are so weird.

Q: Babaji:  what do you have to say about the financial scandal?

A: RSSB has nothing to do with it. In case you want to read we have an article on the website. 

 

Q: In case someone asks what should we say?

A: Tell him my baba was getting bored he needed some excitement and he came with a bang. 

 

Q: Are you sure I say this?

A: Yes, it’s up to you whatever you want to believe.

 

Q: How come you have been silent on it and made no comments?  

A:  If I don’t tell you to react then how can I react.

 

Gurinder Singh Dhillon

Comments

[Sonya]

Why can’t this guy just go away... for good. Retire. Confess. Take retirement. Anything, just go away. I’m so sick of his sickness. https://youtu.be/LRP8d7hhpoQ

[Sonya]

And one more... https://youtu.be/MYSVMgRr6pw

I was feeling sad. 13th year anniversary of my initiation. Then a stray cat in the neighborhood started meowing loudly as it does from time to time when it’s hungry. So, I offered it some food and my sadness went away. Just goes to show we’re all connected in some weird and wonderful way. Gurinder is no more God than the stray cat crying out in hunger. The difference is Gurinder’s church offers no sacrifice of kindness. His church is built around his egotistical worship of himself. These words may sound harsh but I think they are generously fair. Amen.

[RSSB Is truth]

RSSB has nothing to do with the financial scandal is right.
It is a personal matter, and they always announce “don’t ask questions about masters personal life”
The reason to attend satsang is spiritual not to expose scandals.

The last response is meant to say
If I am telling you not to react, then how can I react?
That’s the way he speaks sometimes

All he has said is
It’s a personal matter
It’s up to you what you believe
Why react?

Nothing that’s new news here.
He has answered well.

[PJ]

So if a satsangi is falsely accused of something, they should stay silent because otherwise it's reacting. And this is bad.

[PJ]

Also, if it's nothing to do with RSSB, why is it on the website?

[Sharky]

Gurinder Singh is a true master. Those who go inside knows about it. He is from the 16 sons of Satpurush. Next Rssb Master will also be from the 16. He has played this game so that the unmarked souls leave the path.

And Sanya, your confidence is as long as you have money in your bank account.

[Jesse]

Gurinder and his cult quickly switch emphasis between the organization and the guru when convenient.

The one constant is that anything good that happens at all in the world is the grace of the guru. But bad events get shuffled around with blame landing all over the place. Some nebulously defined version of karma usually suffices until now I guess since it's the guy who claims not to have karma being implicated.

In this case when the guru himself is caught up in very negative things it's odd that he vaguely takes blame by instructing that guy to say his baba needed excitement, but also tries to evade that same blame by exonerating RSSB. Because let's face it, he is RSSB.

Had he said that the volunteers, management and others involved in RSSB management were innocent it'd make sense,but he didn't say that. He's being sly like this on purpose.

Like Brian said, it's just weird. There isn't much else to take from this. None of it makes sense unless you accept he's basically a criminal or believe that this is Krishnas divine lila being played out in 2019.

If the latter is true, I wanna know who Gurinders gopi girls are so I can rate their looks on a 1-10 scale.

[Jesse]

"It is a personal matter, and they always announce “don’t ask questions about masters personal life”
The reason to attend satsang is spiritual not to expose scandals."

RSSB is Truth, what if the guru had stolen the entire dera to buy fentanyl and hookers. Would you still say we shouldn't ask personal questions and just go on getting darshan from the guy as he slowly became emaciated and suicidal?

Where exactly is the line of corruption and criminality that must be crossed before we have a right to know if a godman is really a worthy spiritual teacher?

By the way, old RSSB books say the exact opposite of you and implore everyone to know as much about a guru as possible before accepting him.

Maybe Osho Robbins can tell us if in sant mat version 9.7 it is acceptable to bow to a rapist and kiss his feet as long as he looks good on stage and is a confident public speaker.

[Osho Robbins]

@Jesse
unless the year is 2090
we're still on version 3.0 not 9.7 (Yet)

[Matheikal]

Weird indeed. He's indirectly admitting to his culpability.

[Pooja Arora]

This dera have killed my father. My father is missing from dera beas from last 5 months. And they are sitting mum not doing anything not even supporting us. They have given money to police and politicians to close my father's case. My father was devotee of RSSB from last 27 years and don't know what they did wrong with him. After 9december he did not come back from beas. And their socold sevadaar saying he committed suicide. Don't know what they are hiding from us. Seriously my all believe is lost from them.

[Vikram]

The allegations are all from the shit and ass hole church people. Why not expose the rapists preacher and father's in the churches.

[RSSB is truth]

Pooja claims RSSB killed her father.

Maybe he did commit suicide.

You can’t just make an allegation without any evidence. What reason did they have to kill your father.

How would the sevadar know he committed suicide?

I didn’t say we should not ask personal questions. I only said they make that announcement.

Your argument that “what if...” Is rubbish because as are not asking hypothetical questions.

He answered a few questions and have good answers. He is not disturbed by the things happening. Everyone on this blog would be going crazy if this was happening to them.

He is carrying on with his satsang as normal. Most people would have a mental breakdown. He is not even bothered which is very impressive

[Jesse]

Vikram, you mental clown. Nobody here is Christian. Nobody here defends Christian priests doing anything evil.

Also, Christian priests diddling little boys makes international news all the time. Hindu Gurus raping boys all over the country, human sacrifice and other bizarre atrocities that happen all over India don't leave India. Luckily I read Indian news so I can tell people like you to stfu when you try to shame white people for noticing anything that happens in your homeland of Uttar Pradesh.

I pray you never have kids. IQ is highly heritable and we need less braindead people like you drooling and mumbling while standing in the way of civilization. Only Kashmiri Brahmins should really be breeding tbh.

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/society/article/2141250/indias-killer-godmen-and-their-sacrificial-children

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/mar/05/india.theobserver

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-39176570

[Sonya]

OK, who to address here first... 🤔

Sharky,
Supposedly the Master only initiates “marked souls”. That’s kind of the foundation of it. And regarding Gurinder’s bank accounts, my issue is and has always been that he has TOO MUCH MONEY (I don’t mean to sound like I’m screaming with the all caps thing, just haven’t figured out how to work the bold/italics feature).

RSSB Is Truth,
Gurinder only gives around 19 Satsangi a year. That’s it. That’s shocking for a spiritual leader. There are local sangats where sevadars give more than 19 Satsangi a year. And in his Q&A sessions he spends MUCH more time with people who have non-spiritual related questions because the only answer he has for spiritual questions is do your meditation and don’t talk about it. Weird.

Pooja Arora,
OK, you’ve got my attention. What on earth happened?? The date of December 9th is a bit suspect. A lot of crazy sh*t went down around that time period. Could you give us more details? Or email Brian?

[Sagar]

Seems like some people are lacking humour :-)
The scandals surely exist, however, they do exist in any ordinary life. If you try and understand the massive operations of RSSB, you would know in a place like our planet, society try and uproot it all. Such issues are bound to take place, and it is not like the master is running away from it.
You can criticize all you want. It is your right to question. I run a blog too and it is fun. But, I will make this clear, as a disciple, nothing about this social world is anywhere benefiting to the spiritual purpose.
If you don't understand this statement, all I ask you is to smile and close your eyes to sense God. I ask no contemplations of any man, not even my Master, just stay there, put and feel the universe reveal how funny it all is.

[Jesse]

"You can’t just make an allegation without any evidence."

Ok RSSB is Truth. Take your own advice and quit alleging that this RSSB cult is true or that your baba is anything more than a rich dude who talks on a stage in front of crowds.

[Georgy Porgy]

Great response from the head honcho - he simply doesn’t bother himself with lynch mobs that are hellbent on villifying him.

What kinda disengenuous idiot asks ‘ in case someone asks what should we say?’ Think for yourself fool.

[Sonya]

GP,

“What kind of disingenuous idiot”?
“Think for yourself fool”?

It’s like you pulled those words straight out of the mouth of the Baba himself... quite something. Oh, the love he must have for his disciples.

But right now I’m more concerned about how the Dera reports suicides and murders to the authorities.

[Sn]

@pooja arora is it true?? Details please. This is worse than the financial scandal . I know a dera resident killed himself more than an year ago and it was hidden no case but it was families wish too . and it seemed fair thing to do to let it go and not speculate . But hiding the whereabouts of a person ? I mean thats terrible . Police and politician part is very much believable . You should continue to knock doors in dera . Its just terrible .

[Sn]

@rssb is truth , you have no right to suggest anything to pooja or defend anyone without knowledge . If you were at her place you would be writing worse things .

[Sonya]

Why is RSSB buying up so much land? Read these articles, digest them and be horrified. I think we have a much bigger story here.

https://m.tribuneindia.com/article/report-16-606-farm-suicides-in-15-years/526766/amp

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/chandigarh/its-clash-of-stats-over-punjab-farm-suicides/amp_articleshow/63405424.cms

https://m.timesofindia.com/city/chandigarh/dharamvira-gandhi-faces-threats-for-raising-dera-beas-forcible-possession-of-farmers-land/amp_articleshow/62542750.cms

[RSSB is true]

Dear Jesse
"quit alleging that this RSSB cult is true"
I have not said that - you did. it is just my online name. its is also my opinion only.

only you idiots are making unfounded allegations. he answered some questions in his unique way and you people think it is weird.
more like you are all weird.
he does way more than 19 satsangs a year because you forget all the unofficial ones and just those is more than 19. again more rubbish being said here

[Jesse]

RSSB is True,

The words unique and weird are essentially synonymous in many contexts so you're also admitting that his response wasn't normal. You see it as a positive, I see it as a deflection and a negative.

I don't care how many satsangs he does. The man is a fraud. If you've read all the articles on the topic, and more importantly if you're honest and not suffering brainwashing symptoms, then there's no way you can say that Gurinder and his family have not done at minimum terribly unethical things.

Now go do your meditation and let us talk. We're not hurting anyone.

[One Initiated]

Wow, 19 satsangs in a year,
when even 1 was enough to go inside.
Babaji is so humble for the ignorant and irresponsible disciples.

Sonya, good research, but a bit too late.
you are publishing the stories from 2018.
you will find these stories have little meaning when you go out there and find out the facts, backgrounds and historical information.

I am surprised and happy you used the legit and correct word "buying"
Yes, RSSB is purchasing the land legally for a noble cause.

[Sonya]

At the unofficial Satsangs he listens while someone else gives Satsang and afterwards he does Q&A. Rarely does he actually give an impromptu Satsang when he’s traveling.

[Sn]

@RSSB is true then what r u doing here? If only rubbish is being said here why get urself dirty . Dont discuss then .

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Sonya you just like Brian are not writing anything objectively. It’s a smear campaign you just have the need to pull everything related to the path down. Read your comments. Your huge ego was bruised and you just can’t learn from it and use the incident positively in your life instead you have this need to prove the other wrong. Sit back and think about this problem of yours. You jump with excitement every time Brian writes anything negative on the path and Brian on the other hand never takes any positive news and writes it on his blog every negative thing written by anyone gets airtime. I’m sorry but this is not free speech it’s a smear campaign based ONLY on allegations. Call it what it is.

[In Search Of]

Jen from Austin Texas: what is the positive news? No news is not positive news. If RSSB is open and transparent as they say on their website, why have they not put anything of the last 6 months of news releases regarding GSD on the website? The Singh brothers or Godhwani, or the death threat allegations by two different people. One by his own family member no less.

RSSB is doing what they always do, bury their head in the sand and hope it will blow over and be forgotten. Please enlighten everyone what the positive news is. I could really use some right now.

[In Search Of]

And... some are allegations, and some are based on the market regulators pointing directly at the companies with GSD and his immediate family members on the board of directors involved in accepting these loans fraudulently - THIS IS A FACT. The letter GSD sent to Malvinder to accept the terms they had agreed upon or turn over the holdings and he would figure it out. FACT.

There's also the question of the hospital being swapped from the hands of RSSB into a for profit hospital. Who gained from that? What were the terms, and why was it done? What was the need to do that?

Malvinder's own lawyer stating to the press that the brothers had been duped by "a guru" into giving up their money. I wonder who that guru is...?

Facts are facts. Allegations are allegations. It's troubling to say the least that RSSB and it's head are being linked to these fraudulent crimes. This type of bullshit and the spiritual path should never cross paths. I leave it you or anyone else to see as they see fit.

It doesn't sit well with me. When GSD says in response to these questions that it's up to you to decide what's true or not, does not answer the question. He said it doesn't have anything to do with RSSB. So that means it has to do with him. Ponder on that for minute.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

In search of
I can answer all your questions but would like to take if offline please provide me with your details. I have many positive stories for you as well.

[Georgy Porgy]

RSSB

Pros
- free healthcare to the poor
- tries to lessen suffering
- inner contemplative practice
- vegetarianism
- equal rights for all

Cons
- the leader has ‘relatives’ involved in a court case relating to property

Jesus - what an evil organisation. I can’t understand how you could bear it for 35 years. Harrowing.

Article after article of 2nd hand, hearsay, unsubstantiated, crap alleging the most total and utter bullshit.

Out and out smear campaign.

[In Search Of]

Much appreciated Jen from Auston Texas.

I have to say that good and positive things should be shared openly. There is no need to hide or keep private any details which are good. Goes back to what I've mentioned in previous posts. RSSB inculcates, for reasons I have no idea why, a need to keep things hidden, private: good or bad.

It's either a weird power trip or what, I'm not quite sure at this point. I grew up in an RSSB family and understand inside and out the inner workings of the senior management of the RSSB management style and directives coming from Wayne C's department at Beas. Still doesn't explain why. They just do it.

Again, please share. Good things can usually lead to other good things and positive thoughts.

[In Search Of]

Georgy Porgy, for someone who knows very little about RSSB, you seem to have a very healthy understanding of what RSSB is. If I didn't know any better I'd say you were an RSSB hack. Until an official comment denouncing any of these allegations is presented by RSSB, then it's open season.

By RSSB not providing even one sentence denying any of this, it automatically creates these speculations. The findings of the SEBI report are indeed factual. No disputing that. The fact that they point directly through shell companies to GSD's immediate family is another fact. All he has to do is release a press release that says: It's all false. DONE. Right?

When there is no response to allegations, you leave it to the general public to surmise, extrapolate, insinuate... you get my point.

Recollections of answers GSD gives during Q&A are left for interpretation. We weren't there. But the one about the child being molested by the father, and GSD's response to that, is unacceptable.

He could have said, in response to her, I will meet with you after the programme and talk directly. This would have let the sangat know it was serious, and a personal direction to her as to what she she should do, ie: call the cops and kick his ass out on the street.

No amount of serious discussion will sway you, or anyone steeped in the RSSB doctrine to have any effect.

Make a statement and move along is what I would recommend to GSD. Maybe you can send him the message though your contacts at Beas.

Cheers!

[In Search Of]

Those relatives on the board of those shell companies and siphoned monies are his two sons, his wife.
The other members of the boards of these companies were high ranking RSSB management types and personal friends of GSD.

Sunil Godhwani is GSD's right hand man in financial decisions and he himself said he takes his orders from the guru. So what's your answer for that?

You actually want to say that all these people were not influenced by GSD and what has transpired? They tried to get away with transferring funds and got caught in the real estate bubble. Why is he involved in accumulating wealth? Most members of the sangat have an unhealthy relationship with money. It's supposed to be bad and hankering after it is detrimental to your meditation. Really? Do as I say, not as I do.

It seems the closer you get to GSD's inner circle, the more the greediness and running after money you seem to get.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

In search of
I speak about these good things with my family and friends all the time but this forum is not the place as I don’t feel the commentors here are objective, instead I feel they have some personal agenda or vendetta to put the path down. If you are willing to share your info I will answer all your questions to the best of my ability if not then please go ahead and form your own judgements.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

In search of you have no idea what really transpired, again you are assuming based on what you have read and on the allegations made against Master. It is ABSOLUTELY NOT “do as I say not as I do”. He is a living example in every way if you only knew and your conclusions are not true they are not fact they are allegations made against him. Again I will say I have answers to all your questions but will not do it here on this blog.

[In Search Of]

I appreciate your response Jen from Austin...

But you don't KNOW. I don't know. Only he knows and he's not talking. So you take your angle, I take mine based on the facts I can see and take my decision making based on that.

Clearly, I've lost faith in this. You still have faith and I'm happy for you. No amount of telling stories about how a guru showed up at the time of death, etc is going to change that.

There are mechanisms in the brain and force of suggestion that can be repeated by people who have no connection to surat shabd yoga. My own close relatives have experienced this at the time of their death. But is this the purpose of it all? Nothing for your entire life and when you're out of your mind in pain or whatever ails you on your death bed, it might happen. and most likely not?

So again, feel comfortable in your faith and I'm happy for you. For those that don't have that faith or realize it's not jiving with them, then we have a search for the path that fits.

Be kind, loving, empathetic, and have a sense of humor. Don't throw out faith based regurgitated mindless stuff you have no idea is personally experienced, real or relevant.

Take care.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

In search of
I am not interested in telling you any stories your not interested in hearing. You asked about positive in your first response to me so I said I can tell you many positive things. Your faith graph is your journey, I was only trying to answer the questions you put out there brother. I am not talking about death or anything like that you brought that up and neither will I say one can experience divinity only on this path. There are many ways but for me this is the way I know of...this is the practice I follow...and this is the Guru I’ve learned from. I know nothing about what death will bring but I don’t need to know my life has been beautiful thanks to him.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Oh and let me add by beautiful life I don’t mean easy. I’ve had many ups and downs

[Sonya]

Jen from Austin,

If this guru works for you then keep following him. Clearly others have doubts, questions and serious objections. Just because people speak out against your guru does not mean they’re on a smear campaign. It’s wrong to keep the truth hidden and this is a conversation. People disagree and agree in conversations. They share opposing views and agreed upon views as well. This is a conversation, and yes, sometimes it gets heated but it is not a smear campaign just because it isn’t in line with how you see things.

I recognize that you and GP are working hard to save the reputation of GSD. And that’s what this is about—opposing views. I couldn’t possibly hurt Gurinder more than he can hurt himself. And he can’t hurt me anymore than I can hurt myself. He certainly wasn’t the greatest teacher in my life but he definitely was an impactful one. I learned so much from my experience following him on the path of RSSB. Those lessons could have been learned with much less pain if I had followed my instincts from the beginning. But sometimes we choose to learn things the hard way.

Fair enough? No hard feelings. He just isn’t right for me.

[Sonya]

Jen from Austin,

We’ve all had ups and downs. That’s what makes human. I say that with empathy. Another person’s suffering cannot take away my pain. In truth I think other people’s suffering only adds to our collective pain as sentient beings. That’s why my views on karma are very different.

I had a dream just last night about Gurinder which is really rare, and he was asking me where I was from. So I showed him this road that went along beautifully green hills and I just kept telling him how beautiful it was. I told him some people prefer the desert and that’s OK. He hadn’t been there before but he was curious although he didn’t have much to say. He was just interested.

Anyway, it reminded me of one of my favorite songs: https://youtu.be/ouWQ25O-Mcg

[Spence Tepper]

"This dera have killed my father. My father is missing from dera beas from last 5 months. And they are sitting mum not doing anything not even supporting us."

Who can ignore this plea?

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Sonya I completely agree that people have opposing opinions and it’s fair if he isnt right for you. The reason I call it a smear campaign is because of the words you all choose to use and the negativity you get into. To not like or agree with the Master is your choice and you completely have that choice and even the voice to say it out but when you downright post words which are unfair, crude, negative and unwarranted then it’s not free speech it’s nasty. Go back and read your comments you will know what I’m talking about. I don’t even want to repeat them by typing it here. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind at all. Just be nice.

[Brian Hines]

Jen from Austin Texas, you're sounding like Donald Trump with your accusations of fake news. Here's an idea for you: instead of criticizing the messenger of bad news about the RSSB guru, try a critique of the messages being conveyed about Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

Meaning, if you disagree with facts about Dhillon that are shared on this blog, or inferences based on those facts, speak up. Tell us which facts are wrong, and why you consider them to be wrong. Otherwise...

It isn't a "smear campaign" to share facts about the guru that have been reported in the Indian financial press. It isn't a "smear campaign" to share stories about how the guru has treated people, such as the woman who tearfully told him her husband was sexually abusing their daughter, and the guru brushed that off with advice to be nicer to your husband.

Dhillon has been accused of criminal misconduct: engaging in massive financial fraud and making death threats.

Those are facts. You can choose to ignore facts, but the facts remain facts nonetheless. I do my best to deal with facts on this blog. I realize that facts can be scary to religious believers like yourself, but you should consider becoming more embracing of facts.

Really, facts aren't scary. They just are facts. Since you are a devotee of a supposed "satguru," Gurinder Singh Dhillon, keep in mind that "sat" means truth. If you aren't devoted to the truth, which manifests as facts, consider whether you really believe in "sat."

I do. I just don't believe in gurus.

[Jesse]

Jen From Texas,

Speaking of smear campaigns, the smears lobbed at every religion on earth by RSSB was one of the reasons on my long list of why I left the cult. After a while I started wondering how the books not only praised the methods and gurus of RSSB, but also claimed the efficacy of all other religions and spiritual practices were inferior, even in cases where it seemed RS had lifted all its ideas. For example Surat Shabd Yog is in other spiritual books from that era, including Yukteswar's Holy Science, but you'd never suspect this if you were in the Radha Soami sphere.

There was an interview between a Catholic theologian and Charan Singh printed in one of the old magazines. If anyone can find it it's worth reading because Charan basically tried to tell this Catholic what Christianity REALLY is, but had no clue about the religion at all. It was so hard to read. Like Manjit (smartest man on earth) vs a corpse in a debate. Charan looked really dumb and confused.

In another book someone asked Charan Singh why wine was drank in the Bible if all real Saints were totally sober, and if my memory serves me correctly he says something implying that the spelling was wrong and it was grape juice from the vine, not wine that they were drinking. Obviously this is an insane thing to say unless of course vine and wine are both similarly spelled in Koine which I doubt.

But the whole RS m.o. is to claim that all religions from Sikhism to Judaism were wrong, and that nobody but the relatives of Sawan Singh know the truth of all these religions. In doing so they succeed only in denigrating others, which I'd find more respectable if they were more direct about it and named their books things like Your Religion Sucks Ass and I'm the Boss Guru: It's Time to Bow (to ME)

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Go back and read your blog posts Brian they are accusations not facts until they are proven to be true they are merely accusations and allegations not facts. My neighbor accused me of something a few days ago, I was in the backyard at that time but did not do what she said, so her accusations of my wrong doing was merely that- an accusation. True I was in the backyard (that was a fact) true she accused me(that too was a fact) but her accusation of me was NOT a fact. Same thing here.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Accusation of my wrong doing I mean

[E]

Wine back in the days was greatly diluted with water. In a typical lunch setting it was basically grape juice. One needed to drink litres to get drunk. Another favorite was pomegranate. They would mix the two.

Also. Catholic priests know of Christianity as much as Democrats and Republicans know of not going to war and messing in the internal affairs of most of the countries on the planet

[E]

I would add Dem n Republican 'politicians' to equate the 'priest' in the Catholic

[Sonya]

Hi Jen from Austin,

OK, I'll be nice and focus on the facts.

[Sonya]

I guess these would be considered facts. There’s a lot to read through. Some of interest. Some raise even more questions...

https://www.casemine.com/search/in?q=radha+soami&narrowing=Radha+Soami+&sort=&judge=&courtType=0&published=&isFilters=1&isTribunal=-1&myCourt=0&year=&customYearFilter=false&tabName=filter

[Sonya]

Jen from Austin, since you think I’m crude, I’ll share another fact with you. Gurinder made a joke about the “highway” they built specifically for him to go up to the second floor of the Mand Pandal so that he wouldn’t have to climb the stairs. He joked and compared it to an erection—it goes up and it goes down. When a young lady got up and asked him about the joke he said, “Sister, you’re too young to understand the meaning of that joke.” Needless to say, he got into A LOT of trouble for that. And, Jen, that is a fact.

[Dungeness]

But the whole RS m.o. is to claim that all religions from Sikhism to Judaism were wrong, and that nobody but the relatives of Sawan Singh know the truth of all these religions

Jesse, that's not accurate. Fanatical, artless disciples notwithstanding, mystics
do not disparage religions or specific teachers. If asked to comment on certain
approaches -anything from worshiping trees to an online promise of "soul travel"
for 29.99- they may give their frank opinion however.

In "Call of the Great Master", Sawan was asked about Christ's status and
demurred: "We should not discuss personalities, much less the leaders of
other religions. No good comes out of such discussions."

Charan Singh wrote comparative works on Christianity. See "Light on St John"
and "Light on St Matthew". From the introduction: "If you go deep into the
roots of Christ's teachings, you will find his teachings are the same as the
teachings of all other saints".

A modern mystic Ishwar Puri was recently asked what's the right religion and he
answered the one that says truth is inside you and not outside.

[Spence Tepper]

Jen of Austin, or fake "Jen" , or whichever name or sex you would like to be regarded as this hour....

Your unwillingness to address the actual evidence undermines the objectivity of your argument. And that actually adds to the case that Gurinder isn't legit.

The fact that Gurinder hasn't paid his bills and some of his assets have been taken over as a result you can verify for yourself by reading the article posted on the RSSB website.

The fact that his sons and wife were involved in fraud with Malvinder and Shivinder is already established fact by the Securities and Exchange Board of India's (SEBI) legal ruling. That isn't a press report, that's an SEBI document.

The fact that RSSB built a new charitable hospital then transferred it to Fortis in a clandestine manner is a fact. That isn't a press report. That's testimony from the owner of the company that built the hospital, and it's in a document from the India Courts.

The fact that RSSB closed down a charitable school for children in Delhi and then sold the land to developers is a matter of public testimony.

These are facts. You may have your own opinion about them.

The fact that the Singhs were found guilty of tainted drugs and were given the largest fraud penalty in the history of the U. S. FDA is a fact. It's a matter of public record.

Shivinder 's claim that he is no longer responsible for his actions because he is now a holy man is not only the absurd and hypocritical statement of a privileged brat who has no consideration for the harm he has caused others, but is also a matter of court testimony.

You don't need to believe these facts. That is your right, and I respect it. You don't need to accept facts at all. Everyone wants to believe in miracles. We all need them. These days Gurinder could use a few himself.

But these are facts and you should not make false personal accusations of slander of those who are simply acknowledging these facts and trying to figure out what it all means. Calling that slander is slander.

[Sonya]

And another fact that is especially funny, when but without a doubt crude. Gurinder told us he was staying at a hotel where there was something wrong with his toilet and every time he used the toilet he had to call someone from the hotel to flush it. After about the fifth time of having to call someone up to flush his toilet he said, “Man, I’m tired of this shit!” but he covered his mouth after he said the word “shit” (during Q&A). About half the crowd laughed... And yes, he got into a lot of trouble for that one too.

He likes to make poop jokes and he does it quite regularly in Q&A sessions with westerners. That is also a fact. I don’t know what his fascination is with his own poop but he will tell you all about. Now, I’m just repeating the things he has said here. Are they crude? To a lot of people they are but to some people they see them as funny things the Master says to make himself seem more down to earth. Even with “facts” the reality is you’re going to interpret them through your own set of filters.

I’m just saying, you may think I’m crude and rude and obnoxiously outspoken but I can assure you, Gurinder has no trouble keeping up with me. I guess that’s one of the reasons I always found him so charming.

[Sonya]

The truth is, I consider Gurinder to be a worthy opponent and I guess that’s why I keep playing this game. But the reality is neither he nor I are going to win. So I’m done. It’s getting to be a waste of my time. I’ve made my point loud and clear.

[Jesse]

E, you have no idea at all what you're talking about.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

Sonya
I have heard all the above mentioned jokes before. By definition crude is something that’s cruel and rude and these are neither those 2.
Thank you for your comment on being nice and focusing on the facts. Much appreciated Sonya. I’m also done here.

Have a wonderful day.

[Georgy Porgy]

Yep Jen from Austin is 100% correct, it’s a smear campaign.

Just goes to show that not all Yankee Doodle Dandees are completely doolalee bonkers and barking fkn mad.

GSD like ‘Poop’ jokes - is that turd? This guy sounds more and more like a legend to me. I watched a program on NatGeo where the chief of the kukukuku tribe of Papua New Guinea let a clanger go and everyone thought it a cracker. Regardless of culture, everyone enjoys a good fart joke.

[Dharam]

Brian
Nice to read your comment that you believe in Sat and not the guru.
Who told you about the Sat? Answer is : By a satguru.You did not know at all that there exists a Sat untill you joined Santnat and met a Satguru.You knew about Sat as much as that you becane a speaker to tell others about the importance of Sat.Sat us what exists for ever and never vanishes.Sat is what created the whole universe which includes good as well as evil.And you cannot meet the Sat( Satpurush) without a Satguru ,since this is tge law or rule made by Him only.
That proves you know about Sat but you are not interested to see the Sat,expeience the Sat at all.Because you have gone against the Satguru who can take you to the Sat,can make you experience the Sat,can make you merge in the Sat so that you yoursekf become the Sat and are able to leave tgis false world.

[Brian Hines]

Dharam, what are you talking about? "Sat" is a word that means "truth" in a language other than English. I didn't learn about truth from a sat guru. That's ridiculous. I knew the meaning of truth before I ever heard about gurus or RSSB, and I've remained committed to truth ever since.

Expand your awareness. Burst out of your religious bubble. Truth is the basis of science, philosophy, journalism, education, and virtually everything else we humans do. Truth doesn't belong to religion, and certainly not to any particular religion.

[One Initiated]

truth shall be revealed to all of us.

As they say: Death is true, life is false.
whether we commit to it or not, it shall come unto all of us.

[Dharam]

Brian
RSSB was right to sack you from speakership because you have zero knowledge of Santmat.
Sat or truth in santmat means which is always alive,which never changes and never vanishes.It is a creative power ,also known as Word,Shabad and Naam.
' Aadi Sach Jugadi Sach,hai bhi Sach ,Nanak hosi bhi Sach 'i,e a power which existed before the creation, exists niw and shall exist for ever.That power is truth or God,Shabad,Naam -------.
Sach,Sat are same which literally means truth.
Brian,you are at the right place where you should be.

[Spence Tepper]

A person who commits fraud, and doesn't pay their bills is not a Sant Sat Guru.

Disciples who claim otherwise are entitled to their opinion, but excusing fraud just illustrates their disconnection from clean moral living, which they had once promised to live by.

But when the guru has forfeited his role for mere worldly wealth, can we expect anything more from his followers?

[In Search Of]

Dharma, please respond to Spence. I want to hear what you have to say to the FACTS he stated based in the legal findings.

Where is the Sat? Are the coutys and SEBI lying?

Please enlighten us. Something original pleas. Stop repeating what's written in the books.

[One Initiated]

You are entitled to your opinions as well, Spence.

A Master who delivers enormous spiritual bliss in each and every satsang is a Sant Satguru even at the brothel or at Wolrd bank's wealth.

The worldly wealth is no more than the dust for HIM - In the realm of Kaal it is needed when needed for the betterment of humanity, HE does as HE wish - but never to please you or singh brothers.
the money always had belonged to HIM. read more from Phil - you talk of evidence but when real people comes online and give historical evidence - you and the likes ignore.

Guru Nanak dev ji did it, Soami Ji maharaj did it - Babaji will do it as and when required, if anyone is at a temporary loss due to Masters' proceedings, are always given back in the multiple factors of 100s of the times - as their contribution worked towards the betterment of humanity.

Thousands of disciples who are getting spiritual bliss by Babaji on daily basis,
HE is a Sant Satguru - come and attend HIS satsang and you shall get some glimpse, instead of sitting in USA and working on the inflated news like a media judge selling their TV show.

your attempts of derailing the loving disciples are all in vein and will always be, because you are neither a Master - nor you've reached Sach Khand.
In actuality, you know nothing except the news.

[Georgy Porgy]

A fact is a statement of unequivocal objective truth. There are very few (if any) facts in our existence and if you are so quick to judge something a fact, you are a fool.

The steps in any proper court (not this online kangaroo court) are:
1. Is their any truth to the allegations (based on objective evidence)?
2. If true, do they go against the law of the land?
3. If unlawful, who committed those acts (GSD is not in court)?

Each of steps 1 to 3 are to be decided by an independent impartial court, not any of you. And certainly not any disgruntled ex-satsangis with their own axe to grind, who are completely incapable of separating fact from fiction.

There is very little (if anything) in our existence that is a fact, except for death and taxes and a few scientific laws (and even all of those might not be facts).

Allegations are precisely that, until decided otherwise. The allegations are against relatives not GSD or RSSB

[Brian Hines]

Georgy Porgy, I guess you haven't been following the facts presented on this blog very closely. Allow me to enlighten you. A criminal complaint has been filed against the RSSB guru, which is a step toward him appearing in court.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon has been accused of conspiring to commit massive financial fraud with the aid of his right-hand man, Sunil Godhwani. He also has been accused of making a death threat in that same complaint. See:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/02/legal-filing-against-gurinder-singh-dhillon-is-fascinating-reading.html

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/04/new-delhi-police-investigating-criminal-complaint-against-rssb-guru.html

So you're wrong in your comment above. An allegation of criminality has been filed against the RSSB guru. You really should inform yourself before you write a comment. I do my best to deal with facts here on this blog. Unfortunately, many commenters, like you, are allergic to facts and prefer your own opinions.

[Jesse]

Courts of law are something we use to manage the complexities of society. They are not all seeing oracles with a unique access to truths and falsehoods.

Humans are allowed to make their own judgements. Just as courts are often right and often wrong, so are we. This stupid idea that we're not allowed to use available facts to come to our own conclusion is a crutch for idiots who require authoritative opinions to make sense of the world for them (see Manjit and Georgy Porgy) instead of making sense of it themselves. "Powerful gurus and their magic" and "let the law decide" are not real opinions. They're sad jokes expressed by desperate men.

Plus anyone who knows anything about India knows that the society struggles with corruption in the legal system. If we had to leave all our opinions aside and depend on them for truth we'd be better off flipping coins to make decisions.

And to add to all that, the same RSSB that many of you have borrowed your worldview from has its own criteria that you're selectively choosing not to use in this case. Gurinder, according to Gurinders organization, is not qualified to be a guru. Period. He does not meet the expectations. So forget courts, forget this blog. Use your organizations rules, books and speches. If you believe in all this stuff then you have no choice but to leave Gurinder and search for a real guru.

[Georgy Porgy]

I’m not wrong at all. Actually you’ve just demonstrated the difference between allegation and fact, and you still don’t get it.

Has GSD been convicted in court? Yes or no? If no, these are and remain allegations only, not facts.

Innocent until proven guilty. It’s called due process.

[Dharam]

Blogger Brian
Sat is not merely a word that means truth.It is a power that created the creation.Sat in santmat means a power which is always alive and not changing at all.The power which exusted before creation,which exists in present abd shall always exist unchanged.That never vanishes is called sat in santmat.
That power is cslled sat ( truth), Naam,Hukum,Word,Shabad,God-----and do on.That is a power and not merely a spoken word.

[Dharam]

Bligger Brian
Please read in the above comment as:
That power is called Sat,Word,Shabad and so on* ---- (at place of do on @ typing mistake)

[Georgy Porgy]

Courts of law are definitely not perfect and there are often miscarriages of justice, but they are a damn sight better than the biased opinions of moronic individuals who have their own subjective agenda (see Jesse and Brian).

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dharam
Sat Nam contains all truth.
The audible force of life contains all truth because it is reality in its pure form.. 'The force that through the green fuse drives the flower'.

Therefore every real event that happens is the Truth.and any honest recording of it is truth, and any honesty reflection of that is truth.

Fraud is fraud. It doesn't matter who committed it. The event is what it is. Theft is theft. When you take on promise of payment and cannot pay what you took, and your family hides this from those they promised to repay, these are simply factual events of wrong doing.

It isn't complicated.

We are all here because we are guilty of this.

But whether we make excuses for our state, even by making excuses for Baba Ji, or acknowledge and make effort to honestly do what we can without excuses, without blame, but instead forgiveness, that is our choice.

By refusing to acknowledge the thefts conducted you make excuses for no one else but yourself.

And by acknowledging what Baba Ji and his family have done, and asking them to please do the right thing, please be honest and responsive to those who love them and depend upon them, please make reasonable effort to repay, and then forgiving them, and then forgetting as if nothing ever happened, you lighten your own burden.

But hiding the truth is wrote the opposite. You build a barrier and closer yourself off into darkness.

But that prices of coming out into the light can't happen without Sat, Truth. It doesn't happen pretending it didn't happen.

Would you treat your brother this way, with excuses, hiding crimes, blaming the facts themselves, hiding in the shadows and letting your brother hide in the shadows? Or would you help him acknowledge the difficult truths, and enter the path of rehabilitation?

Tell me which way is the way of the good brother?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi One
You wrote
"A Master who delivers enormous spiritual bliss in each and every satsang is a Sant Satguru even at the brothel or at Wolrd bank's wealth."

You see we both have an idea of what a Sant Sat Guru is. But a true Master may be quite different.

They are aligned to Truth. They cannot tell lies, they cannot live separately from the Truth. They speak Truth, and do not hide from it. They never accept money they didn't earn, they never assume any authority in matters of spirituality.

You will not find them leading corporations. They won't wear expensive clothes, a crown or a turban of authority. You will find them in the mail room, at the reception desk, working at the thrift shop, or at the patients ' bedside.

They are there for those who sincerely need them. And they have the power of the entire creation at their command.

But this world of tears is led by charismatic swindlers.
They have millions of adoring fans who feel the love of their bollywood star and pour forth their love to him.

Absolutely worthless.

I'll say this again. Brian is the Lord's Bulldozer dragging us down from our ivory towers through the dirt of our own ignorance.

But you world do better to accept this mud, which is clean earth and nurturing rain, and stand up and walk along, because we are all made of earth, and avoid the inevitable shock of discovering too late the Truth.

[Jesse]

"they are a damn sight better than the biased opinions of moronic individuals who have their own subjective agenda"

That's called a jury.

[Jesse]

Georgy, that there have been allegations is the fact. That the court cases are going on is a fact. That Gurinder has chosen to surround himself and work intimately with shady businessmen for personal profit is a fact.

I'm personally calling him guilty. He's less than a dead rat to me. The court may fail in their pursuit of justice but the evidence is sufficient for my personal standards.

GUILTY OF ALL CHARGES.

You too are guilty of cultish behavior and would be kicked out of my home if you ever said such stupid things inside of it.

[Dharam]

@ In Search Of and Splence
1.You are time and again talking of fraud and theft. It is not known to you or me that money taken by Baba Ji's family was taken up as loan or for some liability of Singh Brothers to them or for some other purpose known to Singh Brothers and Baba Ji's family.
There is also a note in press which says some verbal settlement was there
between them which Malvinder backed out.So whose fault it is? This all is their family affair and Baba Ji needs not to explain all to Sangat.Sangat( True Seekers) do not ask any account of His personal business from Him except a few nor He wants to discuss it in Sangat? Are Sangat asked abiut their business liabilities and assets ? No.
2.So far as money of Shareholders is concerned,It was the wrongdoing,if any, of Singh Brothers and executives who made illegal transactions may be against knowledge and advice of Baba Ji. But a few people are pointing fingers wrongly towards Baba Ji on incomplete reports.May be Baba Ji and His family has been trapped by some executives by their mistakes or silliness.
3.Now,Let us come to role of Baba Ji in Santmat.The Power of Sat or Shabad or God wants to take back the soul to Him and He needa a human to reside within to connect the Souls to Himself.God chose Baba Gurinder Singh Ji ( from family of Baba Sawan Singh Ji ) to reside within and to take role of Satguru to enlighten the souls and preach Santmat.So He is GIHF.
Initially,Baba Jaimal Singh practised Surat Shabad Yoga for 40 odd years day and night before starting this role and transferred this post to Baba Sawan Singh Ji who was not His relative abd practised for years before taking this role.He transferred this role to Baba Jagat Singh Ji who was not His relative.He transferred His post to Baba Charan Singh Ji who was not His relative.Maharaj ji transferred this to Baba Ji,who is His relative.So,it is with the order of God,may be outside family or in the family.That does not matters.What matters is that a seeker needs help of a human in which power of Sat resides and He is called Sant Satguru or a Perfect Master.

[Georgy Porgy]

Yip who gives a good Gdam what you personally call him - that is precisely the point, you’ve already judged. There’s no objectivity in the slightest - just another cult of disciples boosting each other’s wee britches.

But the good news is your personal view is totally and utterly irrelevant, much as it might irk the ‘hang-em high’ brigade.

Allegations are not facts. And you wouldn’t kick me out of anything even if you tried your v best.

[Dharam]

@Splence
Which bill did He not pay? You are just concluding on allegation of soneone in the press and that report may be wrong?
Your sole purpose is to find a report and criticize Baba Ji.You have no right to interfere in private affairs of anybody.It is upto you ti decide whether you want to take His help for spirtual progress or not..
Has someone asked you your own bills and business transactions?

[Dungeness]

I'll say this again. Brian is the Lord's Bulldozer dragging us down from our ivory towers through the dirt of our own ignorance.

Dear Spence,

Bulldozers can run amok too. They'll demolish a dangerous building on
campus, then feeling emboldened, joyride on over to the Dean's office
and bring it down too.

But whether we make excuses for our state, even by making excuses for Baba Ji, or acknowledge and make effort to honestly do what we can without excuses, without blame, but instead forgiveness, that is our choice.

Bull's eye! Except, once you acknowledge there's wrongdoing that
needs to be adjudicated, it's time to set aside divine hunches that
GSD is either "guilty as hell" or "entirely blameless". Both are reckless
joyrides.

They are aligned to Truth. They cannot tell lies, they cannot live separately from the Truth. They speak Truth, and do not hide from it. They never accept money they didn't earn, they never assume any authority in matters of spirituality....

Agree.

You will not find them leading corporations.
They won't wear expensive clothes, a crown or a turban of authority....

That's as falsely doctrinaire as saying "I could never trust a teacher
who doesn't look and act like Jesus (or Muhammad or Swami X or ?)".

Who knows, any one of 'em could be a master at operating bulldozers.

[Dharam]

@Jesse
Nobody cares whar you say ,speak and judge.For true seekers,GSD is GIHF and shall always remain,since their sole purpose is to meet the Lord.
For them,you are less than a dead lice.

[Dharam]

@ Dungeness
It is strange that you want to see GIHF wearing simple clothes and leading simple life.He is from creator who has created all expensive things of the world.Why can He not lead a Lavish Life.
In Past,thrre are examples.King Janak was a Spirtual Guru who freed millions of souls with the power of his meditation .

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
This Bulldozer has Lazer focus and is reliable as the Earth under your feet... But don't stand still... Keep moving..

[Dungeness]

It is strange that you want to see GIHF wearing simple clothes and leading simple life.He is from creator who has created all expensive things of the world.Why can He not lead a Lavish Life.

Hi Dharam,

I'm not arguing that at all... quite the opposite. It's where
your heart is that matters.

[Jesse]

Dharam, Gurinder is a satanic creature who will burn in hell. I'm the only true master but you're too blind to see it. Sorry, hell for you too.

[Dharam]

@Jesse
I will not say ' hell for you' but say Sachkhand for yiou.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dharam
You wrote
"Which bill did He not pay? You are just concluding on allegation of soneone in the press and that report may be wrong?"

You may read about his holdings impounded on the RSSB website article here

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

Additional unpaid loans were procured for Gurinder fraudulently from Fortis healthcare, crippling that company.

The SEBI concluded this was fraud.

https://www.sebi.gov.in/enforcement/orders/oct-2018/order-in-the-matter-of-fortis-healthcare-limited_40755.html

And this is why the Singh brothers and these shell companies, including RHC holdings, together have been ordered under penalty to repay the loans.

They were given ninety days to do so and that period has passed.

Now the Crimes division is building a much larger case.

And this is where things stand today.

So who received these moneies as 'loans' gained through deceit and fraud, who also never repaid ?

Gurinder's family and associated RSSB leaders.

https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/fortis-fraud-may-exceed-rs-2-000-crore-says-sfio-1550522937932.html

Now, let's do a little addition, shall we?

From the above...
207 crore to Dhillon family (sons Gurkirat and Gurpreet)
287 crore to both Godhwani and the Dhillon family (Godhwani, Dhillon's chosen leader to help the Singhs, and his own family),
223 crore to the Dhillon family
152 crore to the Dhillon family
Total.... Hold on let me get out my HP 12C calculator.....

869 crore... Before interest...

So.. This is a long way to say, "Dude, pay da man!"

[Dharam]

Spence
You or reportes do not know purpose of these payments.
There was a settlement between the parties and some assets were also transferred .
And they need not explain to you or me or press reporters.

[In Search Of]

Nothing wrong with making payments or transferring money. Happens all the time.

If you have a legit purpose to do it, do it legally, why do it ILLEGALLY? That's the question you need to answer Dharam. Where's the dharam in doing things illegally and against the law? Especially if you represent the spiritual entity of RSSB? I think they figured they would never get caught.

[In Search Of]

And, the fact that hundreds of millions of dollars were being transferred to himself and his immediate family without his knowledge is laughable. Is it possible he knew it and thought they were doing it legally. Perhaps. Perhaps...

[grapelove]

Thank you Sonya for your valuable links and additional info. Thank you Spence for your cool, calm ray of sanity. Thank you Brian for refusing to accept the delusional denials of the straightforward facts.

[B6news]

Thank you Sonya for your valuable links and additional info. Thank you Spence for your cool

[Sonia]

B6News,

You know, regardless off who did what and what the final outcome is—what truth is revealed, spirituality and business just don’t mix. Even if the Dhillons and Singhs are proven innocent beyond a shadow of a doubt, I personally believe spirituality should never be incorporated. Would have been best to keep things simple from the get go. I don’t believe Masters should have proxy initiations. A disciple should be initiated by his master directly and not in some massive group initiation. That would have kept RSSB a true spiritual colony...