I'm an atheist with more faith than any religious believer

A week ago I came up with the title to this blog post.

The next day I wrote a comment in reply to someone who goes by "In Search Of" that ended up being a good start to explaining why I consider that atheist me has more faith than religious believers.

Here it is.

Following my comment you'll find excerpts from one of my first Church of the Churchless blog posts from way back in 2004, "Just have faith." I'm pleased that while I've become more of an atheist over the past fifteen years, my basic faith in reality hasn't changed.

In Search Of, you asked: "Brian, help me out here. Am I being unreasonable? Why can't I get an intelligent response to my question? Are we unable to differentiate between logic and faith? Or are the two at opposite poles? Is this the real question we're trying to answer? And is it an answerable question?"

Great questions. Interestingly, I came up with the title of a future blog post yesterday that I wrote down for future reference: "I'm an atheist with more faith than any religious believer." In brief, here's what came to mind that led to the idea for this blog post.

I have faith in reality.

Not just bits and pieces of reality, but reality as a whole -- the entire unimaginably vast cosmos, including the aspects that we humans currently know about and also the parts that remain a mystery. Sure, I also have faith in discrete entities. My doctors. Scientists. My VW GTI. My MacBook Pro.

But it isn't possible to have 100% faith in anything discrete.

For example, every finding of science is open to revision if new facts are revealed. Ditto for my faith in my car, which has had defects that needed to be fixed. And certainly ditto for religious leaders, even those like Gurinder Singh Dhillon that are supposedly "perfect masters."

Yet even given all that, I believe in a cosmos that operates according to some beautiful laws of cause and effect.

This applies at the quantum level also, though the laws appear to be more probabilistic than deterministic. Still, probability is a law, or quantum mechanics wouldn't be such a precise science that's responsible for much of our modern technology.

So my mantra is: "I open myself to reality, however it may appear." I wrote a blog post about this: "An atheist meditation that pleases God."

Where I went astray during many of my 35 years of being devoted to RSSB and the Sant Mat meditation practice was having undue faith in a particular aspect of reality. Namely, RSSB and the gurus in that tradition. My observation is that many others fall into the same trap.

They ignore evidence that doesn't fit into their mental model of what reality is like.

But reality doesn't give a shit about our mental models. Reality is simply what it is: reality. As another favorite saying of mine from Philip K. Dick puts it, "Reality is that which, when we stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

The guru's financial dealings/wrongdoing aren't a matter of belief. They're well documented. But RSSB devotees are so used to relying on belief, they aren't able to accept that no matter what they believe, reality remains.

So no, I don't believe that faith and reason are opposed.

At least, not in how I view faith: as trust in a reality that exists independent of our beliefs about it. Thus my view is that it's up to us humans to do our best to understand reality, not for reality to comport with our beliefs about it. That latter option leads to magical thinking.

I see it all the time in comments on this blog. RSSB devotees feel that if they only scream loudly enough into cyberspace, "The guru did nothing wrong! The guru is God! Stop criticizing the guru!", somehow this will change the reality of the guru's behavior.

All of our mental models are false to some extent.

However, we get so attached to them, often there is no crack in the mental model armor where greater and more accurate knowledge can enter.

Religious people are especially prone to this, because their need to believe that not only this life, but also their afterlife, is in the hands of a higher power is so strong, so compelling, so desperate, their reluctance to adjust their mental religious model is equally strong.

With my VW GTI, which I like a lot but am not hugely devoted to, I still found it difficult to accept that a creaking in the sunroof really was a major defect. I tried quite a few ways to fix it before it finally dawned on me, and my dealership, that the whole thing needed to be replaced, basically. See: "My VW had a creaky sunroof. Here's the tale of a 5-week repair."  

There's an analogy here.

Sometimes an entire mental model needs major refurbishing, or even replacement. That's what happened with me and the RSSB teachings. Well, looks like I just wrote a good portion of the above-mentioned planned post. Thanks for giving me that head start.

And here's the excerpts from the above-mentioned "Just have faith" post.

Faith is wonderful.
Faith is all we need to be spiritual.
Just faith. Faith alone.
So we shouldn't have faith in anything other than pure, naked, empty faith.

...Here's how to tell the difference between true faith and false faith:

Imagine that you are standing in the middle of a bare windowless room. Two doors lead out of the room. Both are closed, but can be opened with a turn of the doorknob. The doors are marked with signs that describe what awaits on the other side: (A) Reality, (B) Belief

After you open a door, you have to walk through it. The door then will shut and you never will be able to leave the place you have entered.

Choose Reality and you will know things as they really are, from top to bottom of the cosmos.

You will know whether or not God exists and, if so, the nature of this ultimate divinity. You will know whether death is the final end of your existence or if it is the beginning of another form of life. You will know whether there is a meaning to the universe beyond what human beings ascribe to it.

Or, choose Belief and you will know only what lies within the confines of your current suppositions about the nature of the cosmos.

For the rest of your life you will be confident that what you believe to be true, really is. Any evidence to the contrary will not make an impact on your mind. You will remain doubt-free, faithful to the beliefs you now hold about God, creation, life, death, and the purpose of human existence.

Which door would you choose to walk through?

Before answering, consider carefully the potential ramifications of your choice. Reality is an unknown, a mystery. It could be frightening or fabulous, painful or pleasurable, warmly loving or coldly uncaring. Do you want to embrace absolutely real reality? Or would you rather hold on to your beliefs about what is real?

Someone with the type of faith extolled by the Church of the Churchless would unhesitatingly choose Door A and boldly stride into Reality. For their faith is not in anything particular, but is a faith that truth can be known, should be known, and, indeed, must be known.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

Sadly we live in a multiverse, psychologically. Every door we think is a door to reality opens to another room with the same two Fucking doors!

[Spence Tepper]

A belief can carry your through very tough times, the room without any doors at all.

And the more you focus on that internal faith in a higher power that is there to help you, the less painful the immediate reality. Calmer, in the midst of the storm, you may see what you didn't see before.... A way out? From the rain, thunder and fog, emerge two doors.....

Welcome back to the Fucking multiverse!

[Dungeness]

There was a door that promised to be
everything I was looking for. Maybe more.
A doorman nodded and cracked it ajar.

I peeked in... it's what i was seeking for.
He nodded and beckoned, I stepped in.
Turning back, I gasped "there's no end".

"It's not that far", he smiled, "just a little bend
and then there's a light. Step away. It's a
train alright.

[Dharam]

Brian
If you or other criticizers scream or speak loudly against the Guru,Santmat is not going to change nor the faith of true seekers who are in search of divinity is going to change.Santmat is made by the God, Sant has been sent by the God Himself to bring His( God's) souls back.Do you think you can challenge the God by scraming and criticizing the Guru? No,never.

[Pema Tej]

Dharma,
It seems to be that you are doing more of the screaming...
Brian seems to be simply sharing his point of view.
You on the other hand, is on a churchless site screaming God this God that... Don't you see what you are doing?

[Arjuna]

@ Dharam - please share what your God is?

He sounds to me like “how dare you challenge me - I am God. Now I’m front of me mortal or I will punish you”

I thought God was Love. Not sure I like your God.

Have you met him? Is we do have that experience you would know that not a leaf moves without his permission. If Brian is doing something wrong that is for him to bear.

I am sure that god does not need a mouth piece on this site.

[jay]

I'm a religious believer with more doubt than any atheist.

[E.M.]

How interesting the blog asks: "... how else do you reveal the truth than by asking tough questions?"

Then cites Stefan Molyneux: "“Truth has nothing to do with the conclusion, and everything to do with the methodology.”

There is real irony in the Molyneux citation. He is viewed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as:

“A libertarian internet commentator and alleged cult leader who amplifies "scientific racism," eugenics and white supremacism to a massive new audience, Stefan Molyneux operates within the racist so-called “alt-right” and pro-Trump ranks.” … “Molyneux has been delivering “race realist” propaganda, based on pseudo-scientific sources, to his audience on an ongoing basis for over two years, and thus has encouraged thousands of people to adopt his belief in biological determinism, social Darwinism and non-white racial inferiority.”

The Anaïs Nin conclusion and quote feels more appropriate.

“When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons.”

[Jesse]

SOUTHERN POVERTY LAW CENTER LMFAO!
One of the most shady and dishonest fake non profits to have ever existed and who are being sued currently by multiple parties for libel called someone racist and labeled studies that point to inequality in something other than height "pseudo science"? Oh my god the horror. Shut the blog down. We're all equal. Everyone on this blog has an identical IQ and precisely the same behaviors. Everything is the product of environment and genes simply don't exist.

By the way, Splc's founder and their CEO both just stepped down for racist practices and sexually harassing employees. The FBI stopped using data provided by them 2 years ago or more. And Mark Potok keeps a chart on his office wall where he tracks the declining white populations of USA and Europe. He legitimately is in the business of replacement theory agitprop while writing that it's a myth.

E.M. you're a dupe. I could make you believe anything if you buy into whatever the SPLC has said.

[What is love]

Many of the people who now turn against RSSB or Gurinder Singh
were once his devotees, and professed undying love for their guru.

guru / disciple connection is one of love.

I personally doubt this love.

I think it is a lie.

People pretend to love because they have an ulterior motive, in this case - salvation.

It's really a business deal. the deal is: I will do the meditation and seva and you take care of my soul after death.

but it's a fake deal.

Nobody loves the guru and the guru also loves nobody.

Each is in it for themselves. For their own selfish reasons.
The guru gets attention, love, money etc.
The disciples feels looked after and safe.

until it all falls apart and the truth comes out.

there was no love. no real connection.
it was all a fairy tale - a make believe story.

the wizard of oz - it turns out is no wizard once the curtain falls - he is just an ordinary man.

The wizard concept was just marketing to get Dorothy and the scarecrow and the tin man to seek.

In the end they found only what they already had.

The tin man wanted a heart and the wizard said "hearts are not worth having until they can be made unbreakable"
The scarecrow wanted a brain. The wizard gave him a certificate.

the central message was: you already have what you seek.

people look up to the guru but the true guru claims nothing.

at best he becomes the device to remove your false seeking

the disciple himself is fake and has no love. the guru also has no love.

when there is a motive, there cannot be love, only pretence

[seeker]

Wow what a great message by @What is love

[Dharam]

What is Love
This false love or pretence of Love can take one to self realisation and God realisation if he or she practices meditation and Surat Shabad Yoga sincerely.Once realisation is there,it turns to a real love.zOn the contrary,if one only attends satsang or even speaks satsangs or does sewa but doesnot practice the path,tgen he or she will have no realusation,no experience.In that case,love may be real or fake.
In fact, all of us love ourselves and have lost our identity. So,if we really love ourselves and want to know ourselves ,i.e., our own udentity ,we have to start with this fake love and when we go inside,we shall find that master is shabad and shabad is our realself in which we shall merge,we automatically get true love for the master.So fake love ( with Bhajan and Simran) is the start and means, and true love is the aim and the target.

[D]

What is love is not entirely correct

The guru - disciple relationship is in fact based on love, not necessarily a fulfilled love at inception of the connection, however it is a love in the making from one side of the equation.

Some are more sincere than others at inception of the relationship.

For those who's motives are for ulterior purpose, i.e. for salvation or a business type deal like "I will meditate this much you give me x amount of personal reception or recognition" it's heading for a rude awakening.

No such deal exists in guru / disciple or disciple / guru relationship.

It may be rare when the relationship is based on pure unconditional devotion from both perspectives, however this is in fact the true basis of the relationship.

Those who's initial expectancy is based on ulterior motivations when entering into this bargain of give and take conditions, will not amount to much appreciation of any love, if anything.

[Georgy Peorgy]

An atheistic beliefs are not informed by subjective beliefs and faith, instead by objective evidence and only arrived at until all the facts are out.

You guys should at least try understand atheism if you going to quote Hitchens - understand what he actually stands for.

These arcane news items that you have carefully selected are not exactly the NY Times or Nature magazine. Not only that they say nothing about the guru that you are so keen to impeach - instead these articles single out others.

Just because you personally might believe the head honcho is guilty doesn’t make it so. How can you possibly jump to the conclusion that he is guilty based on so little. This is not an atheistic , not someone practising the scientific method. it’s a kangaroo court, a witch hunt, a set of personal biases. You are jumping to conclusions before the jury has even been established let alone is out.

This is precisely the kind of mindset that gives true atheism the worst name.

[What is love]

There is no love. That is obvious.
The same people who professed undying love turn against the guru.

Is that called love?

Does a mother ever turn against her own child? No. Because she loves no matter what the child does. She may admonish but will never condemn.

If the disciple has fake love, how can his meditation be anything other than fake?

The fake person with a selfish motive is only interested in himself. Whatever he does is based on what he can get.

He will pretend to love only because he thinks it will help him.

How is that love?

Self interest is not love.

The fake can never lead to the real.

True love has to be the starting point.

And there is no true love, all fake.

Humans cannot love because self interest is the basis of their life

[What is love]

What is the reason a disciple joins the path?

Does he come from love? To give? For no reason?

No chance.

He comes to get. He wants something.

So this can only be a business transaction.

I want salvation and you have it.

Give it to me and I will give you
Seva and meditation in return.

Please explain how that is not a business transaction.

[Jesse]

What is Love, you succeeded in writing the most retarded thing I've ever read in my life.

"Does a mother ever turn against her own child? No. Because she loves no matter what the child does."

"Humans cannot love because self interest is the basis of their life."

Were you talking about tiger mothers, bear mothers or some sort of alien mothers? If humans can't love, then how do mothers love if they too are human?

Get out of your guru cult. The guy is a dick and he uses your money to buy airplanes.

[Turan]

Have just been re-reading some of U. G. Krishnamurti's stuff. His comments makes me laugh - he is so outrageous - but not without an element of truth.

There was this reflecting 'What is Love's' business transaction post.

Quote :- "The teacher, guru, or leader who offers solutions is also false, along with his so-called answers. He is not doing any honest work, only selling a cheap, shoddy commodity in the market place. If you brushed aside your hope, fear and naivete and treated these fellows like a businessman, you would see that they do not deliver the goods, and never will. But you go on and on buying these bogus wares offered by the experts." (From Mind is a Myth)