How many people has Gurinder Singh Dhillon indirectly killed?

Yesterday a commenter called "BlackRose" asked the question that I made the title of this blog post.

It's impossible to know the answer.

All we can be sure of is that Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, lacks both normal human compassion and the most basic understanding of how to talk with someone who was, or is, suicidal. 

UPDATE: I just made this comment to someone who tried to justify the guru's unfeeling response toward people with suicidal tendencies. I'm curious if anyone disagrees with it. It sure makes sense to me.

Dungeness, you're presuming that being "spiritual" is something different from being a decent human being. I heartily disagree. Being a decent human being is the foundation of spirituality. Absent that, it's possible to justify lies, deceit, abuse, and other things that gurus sometimes engage in.

When someone shares a serious personal problem and seeks support/advice, I've never heard a decent human being say, "Stop feeling sorry for yourself" or "That's a sin."

Yet Gurinder Singh Dhillon said those things. This shows that at least when it comes to talking about mental health issues, including suicide, the RSSB guru doesn't act like a decent human being.

Like I said, spirituality should enhance the qualities of a decent human being, not negate or lessen them. If the RSSB teachings negate/lessen those supports of positive qualities, obviously someone should run from those teachings as rapidly as possible.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the uncaring guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas

BlackRose commented on a post I wrote a few days ago, "Why a guru shouldn't give mental health advice." In it I shared a tale from a woman, Sonya, who told Dhillon about her attempts to commit suicide and got a response from the guru that included these unfeeling words:

"Stop feeling sorry for yourself."

Below you can read about another instance in which the RSSB guru turned a blind eye toward someone who told Dhillon that she was thinking about suicide. 

His reported response: suicide is a sin.

A few years later, this person killed herself. Neither her mother, who accompanied her to the interview with the guru, nor Dhillon, did anything to help the woman.

This is beyond shameful.

It borders on criminal negligence, failing to take the most basic steps to help someone who is thinking of taking their life. If a counselor or teacher had behaved the way the guru did, dismissing someone's cry for help with a curt "suicide is a sin," they'd be guilty of professional malpractice.

A guru should manifest the best of human qualities, not the worst. Rightly or wrongly  (I'd say wrongly), many people trust what a guru says.

After all, why did this woman and her mother ask for an interview with Dhillon? Almost certainly, because they believed the RSSB guru would offer some wise words.

Instead, the suicidal woman got worse than nothing.

Compassion, understanding, empathy -- that's what she needed, along with being told that it was imperative she get professional psychological help as soon as possible. The Mayo Clinic describes what should be done if someone is suicidal.

Dhillon did the exact opposite. He didn't tell the woman to get help. He wasn't compassionate. Instead, he was judgmental. Read on for what BlackRose said:

I really resonate with this post. A few years ago my cousin committed suicide. At first it came as a huge shock as it was very sudden and I thought no one knew she was suffering. Turns out I was wrong.

Both her mother and Gurinder Singh knew and did nothing. After the suicide my cousin's mother revealed that two years prior to the death she had gone with her daughter for a private interview with him where my cousin confessed to him that she was thinking about suicide.

I did not hear this story first hand but he apparently told her that suicide was a sin and her mother yelled at her for saying such things. I do know that no action was taken.

Neither Gurinder nor my aunt told a single soul about this at the time and so no one took action to get my cousin the help she needed. If Gurinder Singh, who my cousin believed was god incarnate, was compassionate to her and encouraged her to get help she may still be alive today.

The surprising thing is that there is another satsangi young person tangentially related to the same family who I have heard is suicidal. I don't know her name or know her personally but I sincerely doubt she is being given the help she needs either because of Gurinder's denial of depression as a real thing people all over the world of any class experience.

How many people has he indirectly killed because of this? I feel deeply sad for my cousin and the other girl.

What's also disgusting is how another commenter, "Grateful one," tried to make it seem like Gurinder Singh Dhillon was blameless in the woman's death. 

Below you can read a confirmation that the RSSB guru said suicide was a sin -- a horrible thing to say to someone contemplating taking their own life. 

The uncaring attitude shown by "Grateful one" makes me exceedingly grateful that I no longer put any faith in gurus. True believers like "Grateful one" are unable to recognize how blind they are to a guru's shortcomings, instead going to great lengths to excuse inexcusable behavior. 

As you can read below, "Grateful one" is deluded enough to argue that a suicidal person wasn't depressed or had any problems. That is flat out insane. Because devotees of the guru believe he is God in human form, they consider that the guru can do no wrong. 

But he did.

Gurinder Singh Dhillon did nothing to help a suicidal woman. Yet somehow "Grateful one" believes he wasn't involved in the situation at all. That's a lie. In a personal interview he told the woman suicide is a sin, and did nothing to help her. So it is entirely appropriate to ask, how many other people has the RSSB guru indirectly killed?

Here's the comment from "Grateful one."

Blackrose, I’m sorry but I know your cousin she was a very good friend of mine and I know the entire family as well. Yes she may have mentioned to her mother that she had these thoughts but her mother did not take it seriously as she never thought she would do it and I also know for a fact that Babaji was very sympathetic to her situation and told her clearly that suicide is the biggest sin and one should not do it.

She even asked this in a q and a and I heard his response myself as I was there. Your cousin(my good friend) was neither depressed nor had any problems. I find it’s very easy to blame someone else(in this case the master) for what she chose to do to herself.

That is very wrong as he was not involved in this situation at all. Your cousin wasn’t initiated or followed the path or any vows so how can this be related to the Master or his teachings? I know first hand because my friend stayed with me and we talked about it. This is the problem with these kind of comments where people write whatever they want which is non factual and only hearsay and many people tend to believe.

Comments

[Sonya]

I must say, I’m completely in awe of how awesome Gurinder Singh Dhillon seems to think he is.

He knows all too well the impact his words and actions have upon others yet continues to speak and act so carelessly.

[Spence Tepper]

This is a very old culture of prejudice, of looking down with shame upon thosr who suffer. Reminiscent of Patton's slap.

Midieval.

[Sonya]

The Dera today is a reflection of Dhillon’s true character—the sterility of it, the three giant grotesque statues, the strain you see so visibly on sevadars faces. He has made the Dera about him, not about true spirituality or the love of a benevolent God.

The three statues—one with God holding the whole world in his hands (that would be Sant Mat’s Kal), the second looking somewhat like Atlas. It’s a figure of a man holding the entire universe, not just the world.

The third is the most disliked among everyone because it’s just so ugly. Even my husband who is a devout Satsangi kept saying every time we walked past it last December, “I just don’t get that”. In the roast of Gurinder during the Christmas party, Michael (his attorney who gave the roast) joked that we should all place flowers on the statue and start worshiping it, then maybe Gurinder would tear it down. It’s a statue that looks like it was forged in the bowels of Mordor itself—three gruesome muscular men tied to a long rope trying to move an impossible stone.

Gurinder’s ego is larger than the world. His compassion is smaller than a tea cup and his insight is minuscule. All of that makes for the recipe of a very dangerous man.

And then there is his favorite phrase, “It’s my way way or the highway” which translates into Sane English as “it’s my way or the high road”.

[BlackRose]

Thank you Brian for highlighting this. Gurus need to be held to the same moral standard as the rest of us. When someone works up the courage to express their innermost pain to someone in a position of power, there is a moral responsibility there to help and at the very least respond with care towards a person in a fragile state instead of dismissing mental health issues as invalid, wrong, or sweeping it under the rug. The words of people one respects and believes in hold great power.

[Sonya Bellarozzi T]

BlackRose (beautiful name BTW—mine is Bellarozzi),

Couldn’t agree with you more. I’d give anything to go back to the time where I was completely unaware of GSD. I would give up all of my travels to exotic places around the world just to forget the pain. But the past is part of my learning experience. I feel I could have learned these lessons much more easily if I hadn’t been so rebellious.

There was something about your comment and your experience that really touched me. Again thank you for sharing.

It’s courageous people like you that shine a light on the darkness. I wish and hope for more people like yourself to share their experiences.

I would give almost anything to never have known GSD at all.

[Osho Robbins]

"An Inspector Calls". By JB Priestly.

The play is about " who had a part in the suicide of Eva Smith?"

It appears everyone played their part.

Yet everyone has a justification for their actions.

If Gurinder had said, "please seek counselling or medical help."

Would that make it okay?

What if she still committed suicide?

Is Grinder then responsible?

If a street beggar asks me for money and I say no, then he dies from hunger,
Did I kill him?

Where do you draw the line?

[s*]

Brian did you skip posts?

[s*]

Agreed About the atmosphere in Dera!
It is different.

What I found shocking was the two big Bank buildings right in front of the Satsanghar..

More places are too big to much buildings no sand no nature just by itself,
too less sand and trees.. etc..
The sewadar's are different too.
It is because it has become to large maybe.

[Dharam]

Brian
You should rename name of your blog as' Radha Soami Satang Beas Critics.' That will be more appropriate.
And why do you post photos of Baba Ji.Rather,you should post your own photos .

[Al]

Brian Hines - Gurinder obsessed.

[Nancy]

Brian Hines - Gurinder obsessed

Very true and it’s a good thing. He is constantly thinking of him, Albeit negatively but still obsessed nevertheless. 😊

[Sonya]

Saying Brian is obsessed with Gurinder is like saying Mueller is obsessed with Trump. We all play different roles in this world. Someone needs to shed light on Gurinder’s harmful behavior which has effected not just a few individuals. GSD through his selfish actions helped bring down a once thriving family business—a financial empire that served the public through its healthcare services.

GSD has negatively impacted shareholders and played more than his fare share in the Religare scandal which left a huge stain on India Inc. He is completely out of touch with his country and an embarrassment to it as well.

Instead of taking the surplus of Seva donations and putting that money towards charitable causes, he moved it in and out of dozens of shell companies so that he could use the money to try and turn a profit by investing the funds. He’s a gambler. He invested the money unwisely and now hundreds of shareholders are suffering the consequences. Even worse, the ones he advised in those financial schemes are now facing criminal charges and potentially facing prison sentences as well. All because they allowed Gurinder’s advice to influence their decisions.

He doesn’t just give bad advice to Satsangi’s in Q&A. He gives bad advice to investors and colleagues. If GSD wasn’t SO INCREDIBLY AWFUL AT GIVING ADVICE Brian probably wouldn’t have anything to write about him.

Perhaps he has too many first world problems to understand India or the sangat anymore.

[Brian Hines]

Sonya, you're right. I'd be writing more about other subjects, such as non-religious meditation, if Gurinder Singh Dhillon wasn't engaging in so many misdeeds.

But since I'm familiar with the religion he leads, Radha Soami Satsang Beas, I write about the guru's wrongdoing -- in the same way that, if I had been a Catholic, I'd be writing about the wrongdoing of the Catholic Church.

[Um]

Things, are what they are,
seldom what they appear to be,
[in the eye of the beholder],
let alone how they are made to be seen.

[jay]

According to the New York Times, everything the president has ever done is evidence of chicanery, ineptness, greed, and harmful intent.

When the president said positive things about Putin and Kim, the Times said it was evidence that "he's a tyrant! He loves dictators! He should be criticizing them!" But when his VP recently criticized the despotic country of Iran, the Times said "he's trying to destroy fragile peace we have with Iran!" You can't win with some people.

Still, I think it's good to bring this issue of the worth of the guru's advice out into the open, even if it is presented in the most extreme "how many times have you beaten your wife" loaded question format.

[Jesse]

"If Gurinder had said, "please seek counselling or medical help."

Would that make it okay?"

Yes, Osho. That would be both a compassionate and helpful response that would possibly have led the victim to someone qualified to assist and offer medical solutions to a medical problem.

Why do you even have to ask such an stupid and inane hypothetical?

"If the doctor would have given the heimlich maneuver to the choking man instead of repeatedly kicking him in the face..."

Brilliant stuff.

[Osho Robbins]

@jesse
You completely missed the point I was making.
I wrote
“If Gurinder had said, "please seek counselling or medical help."
Would that make it okay?
What if she still committed suicide?
Is Grinder then responsible?
If a street beggar asks me for money and I say no, then he dies from hunger,
Did I kill him?”

You went off and answered your own made up question.

If despite medical assistance or counselling, she still commits suicide.

Now who is responsible?

Did the doctor kill her?

Nobody becomes responsible simply by giving advice.

Richard handler, creator of NLP uses uses non medical approved techniques yet gets powerful results. He is a world renowned expert but does not sympathise with depressed people. Instead he has techniques to break their pattern. Tony Robbins also uses the same techniques.
If a Tony Robbins participant commits suicide is Tony a killer?

[Osho Robbins]

Here’s Tony Robbins dealing with a depressed man.

Notice he doesn’t sympathise or tell him to get medical help

https://youtu.be/sX5WmCTg8zY

Another video on how we create states

https://youtu.be/IJrcJUV8d20

[Osho Robbins]

When you sympathise with someone depressed,
You confirm their state and make it worse.

I am not saying that simply denying is going to help. What I am saying is, you need to break the pattern.
That’s what Tony did in the video.
He commented on the red shoes to break the depressed pattern
Then he told the guy not to laugh as it will fuck up the depression.

His technique is powerful and gets instant results.

There is no guarantee that the man will not commit suicide.

It would be ridiculous to blame Tony Robbins if the man commits suicide two years later.

Yet that is what some of you are saying.
The position is absurd.

I am not saying Gurinder helped. But he doesn’t claim to be a therapist or counsellor. So why go to him with that problem. Go to an expert

Intelligent people take advice only from proven experts in the field they want advice in.
You don’t ask a person on benefits or welfare how to become a millionaire.

You ask an expert.

Free advice is everywhere but that doesn’t make it of value

People think the guru knows everything which is unfortunate because it’s not true.

[Al]

Will Brian Hines be guilty when somebody dies because of his critics.
Ah no he and Jesse will go to the funeral and laugh at relatives. Right Jesse? Right Brian who did nothing when this was said?

[Osho Robbins]

Here’s a guy explaining that depression is a lie

https://youtu.be/LCs96zGUD1c

It appears to be true, but it’s what we have created.

[Arjuna]

@ osho- I have heard master tell people at Haynes when I used to go “to seek medical help”.

Why he did not on this occasion - I have not the foggiest of ideas.

God will to all

[Mike England]

Osho Robbins
Your comments seem to be missing some steps in cognitive process.
The many points you make leave out a vital logical step.
If the Master gave advice, it is up to the person to take it. Action is now fully on that person. The Master has done his best in the situation.
Is this point lost on you?
Do not take your usual roundabout route to answer this question directly.

[Sonya]

Hi Osho,

That's actually a really good video. It doesn't say that depression is a lie, though. And depression is still a very complex issue...

Thanks for sharing.

[Spencer Tepper]

Gurinder's Ass...etts may be frozen:

"To ensure that the money for the enforcement of the award remained, the high court had ordered freezing of the accounts of Malvinder Mohan Singh, Shivinder Mohan Singh and other members of the family. "

https://www.business-standard.com/article/companies/delhi-hc-dismisses-malvinder-singh-s-plea-on-access-to-pension-fund-account-119032900853_1.html

[Spencer Tepper]

The bills are coming in....Malvinder says Gurinder owes rs 6,000 Crore and he's sending out the bills...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/will-recover-dues-from-radha-soami-head-others-malvinder-singh-to-supreme-court/articleshow/68475740.cms

[One Initiated]

hi Spence,

Nothing will help you or anyone by propagandizing the stuffs.
It's 24th April now, and you are sharing articles published/updated in March.
Gossiping about anyone (let alone Masters) is a very bad deed.. doesn't suit a disciple and also definitely not to a senior individual.

Current Master is taking great care for this planet earth and it's beings,
not to please people like you or singh brothers.

All these articles are merely adding fun for the critiques of RSSB.

I am adding this comment to make aware all those gullible readers who are being targeted by these fake comments and expressions and takes a negative stand and gets derailed from their Spiritual Path just by reading these articles pointed by people who don't know anything behind the curtains and don't have a glimpse of how Masters work for the good of humanity.

Not only now in this year and time, but every Master from the history had similar set of critiques, they still accomplished their tasks - which we admire now after they've gone.
Same will happen in this case. Time is the key.
Everyone be patient and keep attending to your daily meditation without fail.
Love.

[Jen from Austin Texas]

One imitated thank you for your comment. Will do for sure

[George Porgy]

More hearsay and 2nd hand accounts.

First off, who knows what was actually said and how.

Also, perhaps the advice was well meaning. In 1st world countries there are millions with these neuroses who are molly-coddled by so-called mental health professionals who say the ‘right’ things but actually end up doing nothing in practice - the person commits suicide regardless.

In 3rd world countries like parts of India, ppl often struggle and fight to stay alive on a daily basis. Children wade through scrap heaps. Sleep on the floor. No parents or anyone else. Sheer misery and hardship. If you come from that society, imagine listening to some middle-class American whine about her suicidal tendencies.

If you believe all life is precious, then you would believe suicide is a sin. I think it’s up to you what you want t do with your life, but don’t use it as a bargaining chip to seek attention from others.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi One Initiated
The real estate investment thing, the fraud, the unpaid loans, these are real events.

The new charitable hospital built with RSSB charitable funds and then transferred to Fortis to become a private for-profit hospital, the closing of the free school in Delhi and sale of the land to private real estate interests are actual occurrences.

Our interpretation of what these mean is an individual matter.

But they happened, and the recipient of much of the monies involved was none other than Gurinder and members of his family, his associates and relatives. And this took place repeatedly over several years.

They live in wealth and some of it acquired dishonestly and dishonorably.

And under no circumstances have the participants publicly accepted even the smallest particle of responsibility, remorse or effort to recompense.

It's wrong to pretend something didn't happen that did.
It's wrong to pretend theft and fraud are unimportant.
Money is deeply involved and at the root of these bad behaviors.

We just need to acknowledge honestly that these occurred.

Any effort to hide or remain silent is not responsible behavior.

It is very simple.

I'm sorry to say that ethics are at issue.

So if you wish to find a teacher or leader who is going to help you live to the highest ethics, these events are critical considerations.

Let's stop hiding and pretending. Truth is about pulling back the curtain and letting the light pour forth. It is what it is.

Sat truth.

That's what this is about.

We love Gurinder and are doing his will by encouraging our brother to remember his real job, accept full responsibility for all of this, leave off his career with money, live modestly, pay his bills and live the clean moral life he preaches and which we all strive for.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Georgy
You wrote
"If you believe all life is precious...."
Then you honor the life presented to you, and do not dismiss that one's experience.

[Osho Robbins]

Hi Sonya,

you wrote:
"Hi Osho,
That's actually a really good video. It doesn't say that depression is a lie, though. And depression is still a very complex issue..."

Not sure if we heard the same video
but just to clarify

this is the video:

Here’s a guy explaining that depression is a lie
https://youtu.be/LCs96zGUD1c

1:20 Depression is a liar. the term "depression" is a liar
in that you can't "have" depression - it's not a "thing" as such.
It's a habit - something we practice and get good at.

2:10: The way I see depression: I see it as a liar
meaning that "depression lies to you" - tells you untruths that you start to believe

in other words - your version of reality is severely distorted
e.g. "we see the world as FULL OF PAIN" when in fact there is pain there
but is it not FULL of pain. The "FULL OF"" is a distortion because we dismiss the "good" things in life
then we make it permanent by thinking there WILL BE NO HOPE in the future either. This will lead to thoughts of suicide because if there is no hope and never will be - why live?

4:25
"But if you can realize it's a LIE - that's when things change.

So if someone is depressed - feeling sorry for them or dealing with is like it's a REAL THING - makes it worse - because it confirms the distorted view of life a real.

Of course just saying "SNAP out of it" or "get over it" or "do meditation" or
"It's a sin" doesn't help

It can make it worse. I don't agree with the "It's a sin" because it makes it a real thing and gives it more power.

What's necessary is to SHOW the person that they are distorting reality to make it fit their own pre-determined version.

Change that underlying belief and depression collapses like a house of cards.

HOW you do this - you have to learn. Tony Robbins uses NLP techniques
which are very powerful for getting fast results.

in short - you UNPACK the words to reveal the obvious LIE the person is telling themselves.

e.g. Nobody cares about me or loves me

unpack:
NOBODY?
"Well - apart from my best friend - but she's really busy"
so SOMEBODY does love you?
"Well - yes - but she doesn't really count"

"Because she's really busy, right?"

"yes"

"Well - what if she wasn't too busy to see you?
would she count then?"

"well - yes"

"And that would mean that at least SOMEONE loves you?"

etc

If Gurinder was a trained NLP practitioner he might be able to help depressed people. but otherwise why ask him about depression.

there was a guru I heard many years ago and he said on stage
"People come to me with headaches, backpain, unable to walk etc.
but I tell them I am not a doctor"

[Sonya]

Hi Osho,

Yes, I guess depression is a lot like the inner experiences of Sant Mat—neither are real. They’re just distortions of the mind.

[Osho Robbins]

We love Gurinder and are doing his will by encouraging our brother to remember his real job, accept full responsibility for all of this, leave off his career with money, live modestly, pay his bills and live the clean moral life he preaches and which we all strive for. - Spence

Spence, if you love someone, by no stretch of the imagination do you want to see them behind bars.

In Christianity, Jesus claims to love humanity - he doesn't say "you will have to suffer for your actions" - he says "I come to forgive your sins"
The Christian God is another matter - he doesn't really forgive - he's a "jealous" God as he himself claims - perhaps he needs a little therapy.

Not that I am a Christian - just making the point about "love"
If you "love" you want to help and you don't condemn.

If you hate him - just say so. Why pretend to love?

You appear to actively seek any reason to find him guilty.

You have called him a thief, a robber.
You get excited when an article comes out saying that "other family members" will also be investigated.

You appear to want him to be found guilty.

I am not a follower - but equally I have nothing against him either.

for you - it's personal. My question is - Why?

There are many criminals out there - many have done much worse than this man you are after.
How come you don't want them behind bars?

Or is this just the way you express your love?

perhaps the inner master is guiding you.

Nothing it too far fetched these days

[Arjuna]

@ osho- the reason spencer would not go after the bad people in the world or be critical of them - as you ask above is due to the fact they would hunt him down.

I like him though.

And there are bad men out there.

All the best buddy

[Georgy Porgy]

Bottomline - stop whining and whinging.

Okay you got a few in this here website who talk about empathy etc - but they sure as hell don’t care about these ppl. Why should they, why should GSD? They don’t. Why speak nice words and not give a shit in reality? Is it not better to speak harsh words?

Far as I understand RSSB is about following a sustained period of practice.

What kinda idiot thinks the head honcho is a suicide counsellor or social worker, or a panacea for all their issues, he’s not.

I mean come on, grow up.

[Arjuna]

How many poor souls commit sucide after rehab or having extensive counselling?

It’s hard and I feel for them.

[Spencer Tepper]

Hi Osho!
You wrote:
"Spence, if you love someone, by no stretch of the imagination do you want to see them behind bars."

Exactly, which is why I implore Baba ji to do the right thing, come clean, take responsibility and pay your debts...at least as best you can...You know trade the jet in and take commercial airlines...etc..

That kind of thing....

But it isn't loving to worship someone when you know they are doing wrong. That enables bad behavior.

Indeed, whatever it takes to save the soul, even prison time if needed. But all that could be avoided by a couple of simple steps: Honest confession, sincere apology, working to make amends...Do we need to call in Maharaji's divine Bulldozer, Brian, to help rehabilitate Gurinder?

I'm sure Maharaji wants Baba Ji to come clean on this too.

[Osho Robbins]

Spence,
you wrote
"Exactly, which is why I implore Baba ji to do the right thing, come clean, take responsibility and pay your debts...at least as best you can...You know trade the jet in and take commercial airlines...etc..
That kind of thing...."

Let me ask you something.
Do you know what the actual deal was between Malvinder / Shivinder and the Dhillon family?

What's clear is that the Singhs gave shares to the Dhillons worth over $250 Million. Technically they bought them just before the company floated and were then worth around 100 x what the Dhillons paid for them.

Now common sense tells you that nobody just gives someone that kind of money for nothing. Clearly it was a business transaction.

One reason why the singhs might do this is to save tax. That's no crime in itself - tax avoidance is perfectly legal. But they must have a deal about what they get back.

Obviously it's now clear that there was an ongoing deal and Malvinder / Shivinder were sending over funds. We don't know the details of what the Dhillons gave them back. Malvinder claims he is owed a lot of money - but we only have his word for it. Why did he never ask for it back before this?
That's why the court is asking the Singh's to get the money if it's owed.

Perhaps Gurinder does NOT owe any money. I am saying - you don't know because you don't know what the deal was between them.

It's an assumption that GSD owes money. Only Malvinder is making that statement and he has a motive and reason to make it.

If Malvinder and Shivinder had enough money to pay the court - the matter would end there. It's because they have lost their shares that they no longer have the money to pay Daiichi Sankyo the money that is due.

You are acing like judge and jury - when in fact the details of their dealing is not known. Unless I am mistaken - so far it's a civil case about recovery of monies owed. That may change in the future.

You have said you would like Gurinder to be behind bars. Is that an act of love. Are you saying that out of love or hatred?

Why is it your concern? You don't seem concerned about Trump or anyone else? Why is this so personal for you?

Obviously you have some feeling towards him which you call love but is clearly something else.

Why not be honest about what you feel? Instead of claiming it is love.

[Osho Robbins]

Spence:
"I'm sure Maharaji wants Baba Ji to come clean on this too."

Are you SURE - or have you seen this on the inner planes?
as you previously claimed to have contact with the Radiant form.

If you are not guessing - then come clean and tell everyone you have no contact with any inner radiant form. If you do - then tell us what he inner form is saying.

And do you think Maharaj Charan Singh is sitting up there somewhere in Sach Khand observing all this and saying "Hey Babaji - come clean and stop running a business - just be a master and clean up your act"

Is that what you think Charan does now ?

And what about kal? where is he when you need him?

Surely he must have played his part in all this?
As the books depict him - he's a cunning little bastard.

maybe he was responsible for all this?

I know when Thakar Singh got caught up in the bad publicity
he said "the negative forces got a hold of me" or something like that
don't quote me.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho
You wrote
"As the books depict him - he's a cunning little bastard.

maybe he was responsible for all this?"

Met him and find out for yourself. Maharaji is very pleased with Kal, who does his job perfectly, in service to Maharaji.

If you place your hand upon the stove after you were told explicitly not to, the burn is yours, not Kal's.

But we can't help ourselves, so that's why we turn to our Master, for strength to overcome.

Kal is also a perfect teacher. But he sends in horrific bills... As Baba Ji and family are finding out.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho
You wrote
"It's an assumption that GSD owes money. Only Malvinder is making that statement and he has a motive and reason to make it."

I think this is incorrect. If you will read the article posted on the RSSB website it says that the banks now have taken control of Baba Ji's assets precisely because he cannot pay what he owes.

[Sonya]

Georgy Porgy,

I hate your name. That aside, you annoy me more than I can put into words so here is a quote—words from another:

“Once the dust of volcanic love has settled and the harshness of a new reality has become oppressive, disillusionment may have to be mended, wounds to be healed and emotional fallouts to be taken care of, mindfully ( "Is that all there is ?")”
~Erik Pevernagie

[Sonya]

@Gorgy and all Sant Maters

OK, let’s end this once and for all—it was my fault for joining a cult. There. I take full responsibility. If you’re going to drink the kool-aid don’t act surprised when it’s poisoned. That’s essentially what my non-Satsangi friends say. They’re like “why are you surprised that a cult leader would behave in such a way??” And from that perspective it makes perfect sense.

Lesson learned.

[Sonya]

And by all of my non-Satsangi friends, I mean all of my friends. I don’t have anything to do with Satsangis anymore and my husband and his family won’t even whisper anything about Sant Mat around me because they know and respect how I feel about it. It was a Jim Jones experiment that I survived... nothing to take away from it. Just happy my life is back to normal and my family is too.

They couldn’t understand why I’d ever want to go to India in the first place. My brother was horrified the first time I told him I was going. He said, “Even Indians don’t want to go to India!” It was a Seinfeld episode... 😂

[George Porgy]

Sonya

What are you banging on about now? Who cares about you and any cult. What you do or what your join, makes no iota difference to me or anyone else.

What did the guru do to you that was such a heinous crime?

You sound confused. I’d recommend some comedy. Do you guys have humour in the US?

Relax. Don’t take it all so gdam seriously Ffs.

Jesus Christ almighty the poor guru must be suicidal after listening to all these sob story Greek tragedies - the poor guy must be a saint. I’d tell you all where to get off.

[In Search Of]

Georgie Porgy wrote, "Jesus Christ almighty the poor guru must be suicidal after listening to all these sob story Greek tragedies - the poor guy must be a saint. I’d tell you all where to get off."

Wow: blasphemy, sin and anger in the same sentence. That's a perfect trifecta right there. Congrats!

[Georgy Porgy]

A trifecta, Wahoo !

At least it’s stopped the Gdam ‘me me me’ whinging.

The headline of this post really takes the cake. Hell even the most loyal disciple (Gestapo member) must feel a bit embarrassed at the shameless propaganda. Perhaps not.

One wonders how you lot would all feel if your name was run-down by these 2nd hand accounts from flakes? A sustained smear campaign all masked in the name of free speech.

Bet you’d all run for the hills if the same was done to you.

But no, every wierdo ex-RsSB who comes up with some completely unsubstantiated attention-seeking allegation gets airtime. Karma would he that the same happens to you.

[s*]

Georgy Porgy,

You said to Sonya,

''What are you banging on about now? Who cares about you and any cult. What you do or what your join, makes no iota difference to me or anyone else. ''
......................................................................................
What you know about ''anyone else''??
Your posts have no value at least not to me.

[In Search Of]

Hi George Porgy. If it was me, I would give a statement that it's all untrue and the facts will come out. Done. GSD can't do that. Once he does, it opens a pandora's box for the him and the sangat. Since I would say that probably 75% of the sangat doesnt know anything about the fraud allegations or anything else about the hospitals etc, why poke the bear?

Seems to be working for him in the most part.

What I have trouble with is RSSB followers speaking nonsense. Clearly, those who have lost faith in GSD are here posting on the facts and allegations against him and RSSB. If you have faith in GSD, good on you.

You don't need to defend him. He can do this on his own. Speak in facts, personal interactions, perceptions that are relevant, not faith based regurgitation.

[Georgy Porgy]

In Search Of

I don’t know GSD and I only know a v small amount about RSSB, but this looks like a witch-hunt, a sustained smear campaign.

Articke after article of dodgy anonymous posts from ex-satsangis making the most horrendous allegations without a shred of Evidence.

If there is karma, someone will do the same to you lot. Start a website. Post the most horrendous allegations and then say, yes it’s free speech. I’d like to see how you feel.

Apart from the fact most of the disenchanted are clearly unbalanced as individuals, if you are going to dish it out, then by god at least have the balls to take it.

What happened to that v interesting poster illanovitch? He used to bring some balance to the Force.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hi Spence

In regard to your recent exchange with Osho - I believe he makes some good points. First, in regard to the RSSB/GSD saga, deals were no doubt done and thank you for sorting and helping to present this info. Yet as far as I can tell allegations have yet to be proven. And even though it seems GSD shares responsibility there is the distinct possibility that other folk will take the fall and he will remain ‘out of jail’. Second, I like Osho, have difficulty reconciling your perspective concerning the inner/outer master. To me there would be accord between the two if it was the real deal. However I have not seen the radiant form so this is just my opinion. From what I remember of the RSSB teachings it is a very ‘hi’ state, very few devotees actually experience this - one has to be almost a saint.
Talking about saints, my other point relates to your comment ‘Do we need to call in Maharaji's divine Bulldozer, Brian, to help rehabilitate Gurinder?’ Yes, we know Brian’s blog continues to be helpful and informative to many folk but ‘Brian the Divine bulldozer?’ As per Brian’s pic of himself from the 70’s - he did look a bit Jesus like, but if you keep saying things like this his holy head could start to swell :-). I’m half expecting you to say that your inside info tells you that when GSD ditches the turban it’s going to fly off to Oregon and land on Brian’s head - Sri Sri Sri, Prabhu Hinesananda Goswami jaya jaya!!
Keep smilin

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Tim
Gurinder's accounts are well documented. Even the article posted on the RSSB website mentions business interests that have already taken over Gurinder's holdings, because he could not make his payments. Real estate speculation is the cause. There is plenty of evidence, even on the RSSB website itself, and more still in the press.

Each of us must make our own decisions about these things. So as far as you are concerned,my inner Gurinder is only subjective. That's how it must be.

Therefore all that we can truly share is the objective evidence, and that points clearly to criminal behavior on a large scale and fully warrants detailed and extensive criminal investigation.

I personally believe this is exactly what Gurinder wants. And he does not want superstitious blind cult-like adherence to get in the way, which of course it can't anyway.

His house arrest days have already been scheduled in another set of books, and he is quite satisfied with the progression of events from these we read today to those that are following inevitably.

As for Brian, he is the most reliable of all of us. He hates to acknowledge intuition. But his is quite developed.

[In Search Of]

Georgy Porgy wrote "What happened to that v interesting poster illanovitch? He used to bring some balance to the Force."

You can't be serious. ...bring some balance to the Force?

To be clear, I'm hoping in the deepest depths of my dwindling faith in the guru that things will get squared away, but I have my doubts. My thinking is that GSD will come out relatively unscathed. But my point is that the faith has been shattered, destroyed.

[Dungeness]

Therefore all that we can truly share is the objective evidence, and that points clearly to criminal behavior on a large scale and fully warrants detailed and extensive criminal investigation.
...
His house arrest days have already been scheduled in another set of books, and he is quite satisfied with the progression of events from these we read today to those that are following inevitably.

Dear Spence,

"His house arrest"? Seizing GSD's assets may make that venue
problematic. If he's fitted for an ankle bracelet, they could let
him to crash with friends til trial I guess. Perhaps "house arrest"
was meant figuratively since it's in another "set of books" though.

Seriously, the objective evidence that'll have GSD doing hard
(or soft) time is still unclear. No specific court charges. No trial.
No tabloid pix of the "Baba" doing the perp shuffle.

For good reason. There are several potential bad actors among
GSD's family and relatives and associates. It's for the courts to
examine evidence. Slowly, deliberatively, with forsensic audits,
with the testimony of expert witnesses and others under oath.
Always setting aside passion, the shouts of provocateurs that
he's a cruel, greedy scumbag who ignores the suicidal and
sexually abused.

Or, should we dispense with the court's laborious, slow, pesky,
painstaking procedures and convict him here and now? Just go
go with the rock-solid "intuition" of blog commenters who know
in their hearts that he's guilty and needs to confess tearfully
before God and flock that he's a lost soul who went astray and
fleeced his loyal, trusting sheep. Once the tears have dried, he
can do his time like any other perp.

[Georgy Porgy]

Yep Dungeness is the sole voice of objective reason among this hang-em high posse. The Gestapo would string him up given half the chance.

If you had enough of RSSB, walk away, end of. Why the smear campaign?

Sounds to me like the sum-total of GSDs crimes are that he dented a few egos or didn’t pay enough attention to a few self-absorbed souls that were never going to understand the teachings in the first place.

Far as I can tell it’s about an inner practice and helping those less fortunate (free medical care to the poor etc. Not about publishing books, giving boring sermons on the mount or generally pushing your own view of what it’s about when you’ve actually never understood it in the first place.

[Pooja Arora]

The worst case happened with me. my father was 27 years dovotee of Radha soami satsang beas. he is missed from there from last 09 dec.18, from canteen no.3. beas. The dera sevadaars are least bothered even they just get free and told us that your father committed suicide in Beas Dariya. No body found yet neither they even complained to police that day. They are such pathetic. No humanity shown to the family of their 27 years old devotee. Just running a business.

[guggs]

"If you had enough of RSSB, walk away, end of story. Why the smear campaign?"

Atleast this page was "illogical". He is not a psychiatrist.

Please bring some information about "how-many-people-has-gurinder-singh-dhillon-DIRECTLY-killed".

I will be more than happy to read it.

[Jesse]

""how-many-people-has-gurinder-singh-dhillon-DIRECTLY-killed"

I am 100% certain it was exactly 6 million. Not one more, or one less. I know for certain the number is accurate because I saw a picture of shoes in a pile, and someone in Hollywood made a documentary about people picking eating diamonds and digging out the diamonds from their feces over and over again.

Any attempt to dispute this number will result in jail time, your reputation being ruined, getting fired from your job, and possibly your kids being taken from you, because freedom.

As the America loving Congressman who doesn't take large sums of money from foreign lobbying firms Dan Crenshaw said recently "You'll regret asking these questions."

[Ingrid Johansson]

I miss Charan Sighn! He would have advised this lady that took her life for her to seek medical care. He would have been there for her with his words.

[Sonya]

I miss Charan Sighn! He would have advised this lady that took her life for her to seek medical care. He would have been there for her with his words.

Posted by: Ingrid Johansson | February 24, 2020 at 04:11 PM

Thank you 🙏

[A Wise 🦉]

I miss Charan Sighn! He would have advised this lady that took her life for her to seek medical care. He would have been there for her with his words.

Posted by: Ingrid Johansson | February 24, 2020 at 04:11 PM

Don't be too sure about this. Your pralabd (destiny karmas) reign supreme.

There is no shortage of individuals committing suicide despite all the possible health care.

Eventually there is absolutely no difference between Charan and GSD. They know what's right, what's appropriate and what's the outcome gonna be for the soul. All for the soul's good.

[The Repentless Slayer]

""how-many-people-has-gurinder-singh-dhillon-DIRECTLY-killed"

I am 100% certain it was exactly 6 million. Not one more, or one less. I know for certain the number is accurate because I saw a picture of shoes in a pile, and someone in Hollywood made a documentary about people picking eating diamonds and digging out the diamonds from their feces over and over again.

Any attempt to dispute this number will result in jail time, your reputation being ruined, getting fired from your job, and possibly your kids being taken from you, because freedom.

As the America loving Congressman who doesn't take large sums of money from foreign lobbying firms Dan Crenshaw said recently "You'll regret asking these questions."

Posted by: Jesse | November 12, 2019 at 10:32 PM

What a let down. Just 6 million and not one more or less.

But since you seem to be a good at keeping accounts - how many has your Guru or should I say your wife's Indian Guru DIRECTLY killed.

[Gaurav]

One more baba in row....my family. Is in radhswami satsang from last 10 or more year..... gurinder Singh having some soul....and they attacked on people....bahut bakbas satsang h yeh don't go.... I strongly advised.....I broke all his photo of this guru....bahut harami type ka h....he spread some soul on my family.... gurinder play with innocent soul.....Sala Karam dusro s utarbata h bahut pareshan kiya Meri family ko...I give large amount of bad heavy word with my broken heart....his mama Charan Singh also big fraud.....their soul ....Charan Singh ....mere papa ko bahut pareshan kiya h .....bahut harami h....Sala guru k ma'am par chor h.....please don't go this satsang...I request to all of u...... Uor family suffer a lot what I feel.....believe in mother goddess if u are in Hindu religion maa save my life....Sala yeh mind brainwash karta h .....bahut harami h ..aisa lagega yahi sab kuch h....my family blindly follow....this nonsense fucking baba....I meditate long hour.....I know some truth about....due to my third eye penetration.......nanak. Is bigger than this satsang never follow this satsang....I humbly request you to not join not go this nonsense...qutiyapa.....believe in yourself believe in universe that give u power......love u alll.....

[Tera Baap]

One more baba in row....my family. Is in radhswami satsang from last 10 or more year..... gurinder Singh having some soul....and they attacked on people....bahut bakbas satsang h yeh don't go.... I strongly advised.....I broke all his photo of this guru....bahut harami type ka h....he spread some soul on my family.... gurinder play with innocent soul.....Sala Karam dusro s utarbata h bahut pareshan kiya Meri family ko...I give large amount of bad heavy word with my broken heart....his mama Charan Singh also big fraud.....their soul ....Charan Singh ....mere papa ko bahut pareshan kiya h .....bahut harami h....Sala guru k ma'am par chor h.....please don't go this satsang...I request to all of u...... Uor family suffer a lot what I feel.....believe in mother goddess if u are in Hindu religion maa save my life....Sala yeh mind brainwash karta h .....bahut harami h ..aisa lagega yahi sab kuch h....my family blindly follow....this nonsense fucking baba....I meditate long hour.....I know some truth about....due to my third eye penetration.......nanak. Is bigger than this satsang never follow this satsang....I humbly request you to not join not go this nonsense...qutiyapa.....believe in yourself believe in universe that give u power......love u alll.....

Posted by: Gaurav | March 03, 2020 at 10:49 AM

Looking forward to more posts from you.

[Jen]

Suicide: one person dies every 40 seconds.
(9 September 2019)

Suicide rate highest in high-income countries; second leading cause of death among young people.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/09-09-2019-suicide-one-person-dies-every-40-seconds

Who you gonna blame...

[Sonia Taylor]

Really?

Countries With the Highest Rates of Suicide

In all but one of these countries, men are more likely than women to end their lives, says the U.N.

By Sintia Radu, Staff Writer 
June 20, 2018
U.S. News & World Report

Countries With the Highest Suicide Rate:

Top 10 List (Lithuania being highest)
Lithuania
Russia
Guyana
South Korea
Belarus
Suriname
Kazakhstan
Ukraine
Latvia
Lesotho

[Alton]

How would I handle it if I was Baba Ji and someone came to me about wanting to commit suicide. First I would hug the person and then ask the reasons why that person wants to commit suicide.  I would spend at much time as needed.  I would say that they can come visit me as much as needed. I would say to that person that they need a friend to talk to them about it.
And more.I left the fold about 8 years ago when a young woman told me that she was sick and traveled thousands of miles to visit Baba Ji and she refused to see her.. I just returned and may leave soon. Is this guru heartless.My other gurus at least have good hearts. The late Darshan Singh, the son of Kirpal Singh, stayed up all night seeing anyone who wanted to see him.I see that my post was not approved.  Brian, please tell me how I can start my own [email protected]

[Tanya Alexander]

Your posts seem to be demonstrating a real interest in RSSB. But even before that, I can tell by your posts your not a man who respects other individuals religious beliefs.

I do apologise, as this is a very sensitive subject, but within Christianity is there not a long debate regarding suicide being a sin? Taking any life that is not created by you is a sin, including yours. You didn’t create yourself, who are we to end the life of something that isn’t ours. You don’t have to agree with myself, but I am entitled to give my part also.

Taking anyone’s life in this world is a sin am I correct? You murder someone you go to hell as they say. Your body is also a living aspect. Secondly, mental health is very real, and it’s beyond devastating how this can push individuals to take there own lives.

Gurinder Singh ji isn’t a practitioner within mental health. He isn’t a therapist, he does not hold a counselling degree. I find it difficult to believe he dismissed the individual by saying “Suicide is a sin”
End of story, that’s it let’s close the chapter. What really was discussed behind those doors sir?

His teachings are to be a good human being, to support individuals whom are at there weakest. He advises his sangat to turn the other cheek if someone is challenging you. He advises aspiring initiates to stick to a diet where no animals are cause any pain.

What I’m really concerned about is you. Are you okay, as I can see your posts are always aiming at him, and I read the individual under the name of black roses comment. It didn’t actually look right, very blunt. And if it is correct why not take action? I would highly advise yourself to start posting material where there is evidence and sources, references. That will help us all to access and further read this criminal stories you are sharing with us all.

There are many individuals out there who don’t recognise there master, as in Jesus time, there were individuals whom didn’t recognise him, and rebelled against him and put him on the cross.

You see my brother, find peace within yourself, use your time to research and get to know all cultures and mystics. Please do all the education and research before you build a post from someone who left no other sources behind.

It would be like me paying someone to write a hatful post aiming towards a religion.

Be kind my brother. And again seek.

[George Ji]

https://psychcentral.com/blog/differences-between-a-psychopath-vs-sociopath/

Traits of a Psychopath
Psychology researchers generally believe that psychopaths tends to be born — it’s likely a genetic predisposition — while sociopaths tend to be made by their environment. (Which is not to say that psychopaths may not also suffer from some sort of childhood trauma.) Psychopathy might be related to physiological brain differences. Research has shown psychopaths have underdeveloped components of the brain commonly thought to be responsible for emotion regulation and impulse control.

Are you a psychopath?
Take the Psychopathy Quiz to find out!
Psychopaths, in general, have a hard time forming real emotional attachments with others. Instead, they form artificial, shallow relationships designed to be manipulated in a way that most benefits the psychopath. People are seen as pawns to be used to forward the psychopath’s goals. Psychopaths rarely feel guilt regarding any of their behaviors, no matter how much they hurt others.

But psychopaths can often be seen by others as being charming and trustworthy, holding steady, normal jobs. Some even have families and seemingly-loving relationships with a partner. While they tend to be well-educated, they may also have learned a great deal on their own.

When a psychopath engages in criminal behavior, they tend to do so in a way that minimizes risk to themselves. They will carefully plan criminal activity to ensure they don’t get caught, having contingency plans in place for every possibility.

[Nisha Ahuja]

I know many people around me who wanted to take their lives since years ago but did not do so because Gurinder Singh Dhillon has mentioned over and over again that "Suicide is a Sin". You must also realise the fact that the cousin of this "Blackrose" who was thinking about suicidal tendencies committed suiside after two complete years of having an interview with Gurinder Singh Dhillon. Which means somebody with suisidal tendencies got two complete years of life just after realising the fact that suiside is a sin.