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April 04, 2019

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This is both the first time i've ever been on your site as you uploaded a new post, and maybe my favorite post you've ever written.

When I was in RSSB I thought I was special, and everyone around me thought they were special, too. Somehow access to such a special religion with special people just made most of us really unhealthily cultish and egotistical like most of the commenters here. It didn't seem to make the fear of death dissipate for anyone either. If I were to judge RSSB by its fruits, I'd say it's a rotten tree.

Lately I've been going to Hindu temples and doing mantras. I ask the priests for a simple mantra for each of the gods, and bow down on the floor in front of the statues or "murthis" before I repeat it in my mind for as long as I feel like. It's something ritualistic I enjoy, and there is no fear or seeking of any rewards. Nobody bothers me and there's none of the arrogance like there is in a guru cult. It's just me and the gods, be they real or not, having a moment together.

I recommend doing something similar to anyone who is still into spirituality but trying to get out of the trap of godmen and their businesses. Make up your own religion if you have to. It can't be any worse than these unoriginal and boring imitations of the old bhakti traditions.

Let me try to help.

Life: Consciousness moves and as a result space and time result and dualism is manifest. Thus, the Universe of objects with which Consciousness identifies itself is born. This creates the sense (illusion) of self and other when in actuality there is neither.

Death: Consciousness rests. Space and time disappear. As a result, objects cease to exist as well as duality. The manifest Universe disappears. Illusion is no more. This undifferentiated state persists unidentified...until Consciousness (itself) moves again.

In either case Consciousness is fully present.

In Reality Consciousness is never born, nor does it die.

It appears as many but is always, in Reality.. One.

In Reality there is no "other"

Appearance is One becoming aware of itself as many.

The Universe is Consciousness being conscious of Consciousness..

It is Awareness being aware of Awareness by making an object of itself.. infinitely.

You, whoever reads this, are That.

All.. is That.

Such is Eternity. Know this and be at peace.


What exactly is the problem with death? It is obvious to all that death is inevitable, that it is part of the natural cycle of life. The body at some point, either through getting old, diseased and feeble or through some terrible disease causing a life of suffering can be quite ready to welcome death. Yet this process, this intelligence of the body is usually over-ruled and avoided in favour of hopes of a cure.

Who or what is it that hopes for a cure, that clings to the hope of continuation? It is quite natural for the organism to struggle to stay alive, it is instinctive, but when death is inevitable (for whatever reason) there is still a strong element within us that attempts to deny the unavoidable. Those witnessing the death also hope for a miracle – either medical or divine. Who is the denier, the avoider? If not the body then that leaves only the mental realm to account for this – that means the mind or rather its sub-structure – the self. Again, this is quite natural. The operation of the self is a great survival aid. Through the process of brain-mind-self-memory-thought, the self protective instinct is magnified – and it can and does lead us astray.

It leads us into the complex realm of concepts. Concepts (beliefs, thoughts, ideas and opinions) not being part of the reality that we can touch, see or feel, can be and often are the main sources of the conflicts and sufferings we endure. Yet we do not see this and if we do we ignore it or justify it.

When it comes to the many beliefs that separate us, we have such strong investments in them we would fight, kill and die to defend them. And what are we defending? Simply a series of conditioned thoughts and beliefs that emanate from the uninvited conglomeration of information we call the mind, and as can be see, mind is its contents from which the inevitability of a conceptual self is constructed.

It is this self, this mental construct that feels itself to be the real me that fears criticism, fears being wrong, fears being dismissed – all of which diminishes the egoistic aspect of the self. The final affront to the self is annihilation – death.

The only way it can avoid death lies within its own machinations. Having created the mental construct – my 'self' – it can do no other but to invent a belief system or series of beliefs to pacify or deny the reality of not existing. The body at some point will accept the reality of not being, but the self will employ any means to survive.

Being an astronaut or deep sea worker
and you think the equipment is you, you will die

Shabd will never die and we can be that; the purpose of rssb


All.. is That.
Such is Eternity. Know this and be at peace.

Trouble with that mantra -any mantra-- is we go right on
hugging duality for all we're worth. Dammit, it pisses me
off!

@ Brian - you are the lucky one! Your master will be there with a smile😍

"Shabd will never die and we can be that; the purpose of rssb"

Why, if this shabd is real and powerful, was it unable to stop Charan Singh from being obsessed with buying expensive watches? Why was the magical shabd less than adequate to control the mind of Gurinder to keep him from immense greed that might land him in prison?

According to your books the shabd is so sweet that normal people stop sinning after slight contact with it. These men are supposed to literally be shabd incarnate and they're out here stealing your money. So, what you say about shabd sounds like bullshit, Phil. I think you're in a cult and repeating its party line. I did it for a decade myself and I kind of feel embarrassed by that part of my life.

If there's anything real about the mysticism talked about in RSSB books, it's likely only real outside of that organization.

@Phil-U.K., ..........you still have time to follow the examples of you Father & Grandfather! Send Money $$$$$$$$$$, at least enough, to pay off the Loans. ( if they left you any, and didn’t already send it all to RSSB? )

Hindustan Times: ‘Will send former Ranbaxy promoters to jail if found guilty of contempt’: SC.
https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/will-send-ex-ranbaxy-promoters-to-jail-if-found-guilty-of-contempt-supreme-court/story-9b0ZNymBHbqa2n5eilZTSM.html

Jim

To truly die and just merge back into everthing is wonderful! If only we could be assured of that!
To become nothing at all is a sheer joy.
My happiest moments are when I'm not even thinking about anything at all!
More please!

"Trouble with that mantra -any mantra-- is we go right on
hugging duality for all we're worth. Dammit, it pisses me
off!"

-- The difficulty is illusory.. that we think we are hugging duality when we are duality, both sides of the coin at once. It is fine as it is. Nothing to achieve. That which is desired to be achieved is that which would achieve it. Reality is never an object of itself. If it is seen, it is something else. You know the old saying.. If you see Buddha by the road beat him with a stick.

To be or not to be, that is the question....

Not to be ain’t a problem if you don’t even exist

It’s only a problem this side of the fence

@Spence,....you need to find at least a few things that make you happy and gives you a little pleasue to think about. Travel, explore, ride a Motorcycle, try some new Coffees and Chai, visit places like the Golden Temple, in Amritsar, or hike up to the Tiger’s Nest Monastary in Bhutan, and try meditating with the Monks, or go to Dollywood, in Pidgen Forge, Tenn. and ride the Roller Coaster and Stream Train. There are millions of things still left to do and enjoy in this world, as long as you look for as many as you can find and do, instead of wasting time looking for Doom and Gloom stuff. Explore new places in the Astral and Causal Planes you have not yet visited. Sach Khand will always be there, and waiting for you, Eternally, but what’s the hurry? If you were living as a Muslim female in some shitole country, as the 4th wife with only your eyes showing, or any other place than in your Spence Body in America, where every one in the entite world want to immigrate to, the Home of the Brave, and Land of the Free, then, you would have at least, an excuse to desire to end it all and vanish in to oblivian nothingness, permanently! But you are a talented White Privilaged American! Don a new Red MAGA Cap, and help Trump and us American Delporables make America Great, instead of trying to destoy it within, as the Progressive America hating Liberal Democrats continue to do.
Jim

@ spencer - as Jim has tried to help. You could go to all those wonderful places he has stayed above.

Or you could go to an Army Boot Camp for the weekend and get put through the paces as all soilders are. It gives the brain a kick too. Clear it first with your doctor or physician as your guys may call him or her☺️

@Spence, ......why don’t you write a Book, or even write on your Atheist Blog of the Banned damned, how to stay out of Hospitals, by doing what ever you are doing, to stay positive, and how to dodge the thorns of the world while picking Roses, and enjoying the Bliss of Meditation, that you keep saying you experience, while cursing the world.

It appears you must be accessing some real low Astral Realms in your Meditation. Check out a Jurgen Meditation. Its different than the 5 Name Simran, but you need a change of Scenery and Sounds, occassionally, to break your depression. 😇😍🙏🏻

https://youtu.be/5b7OsEmv578

Jim

@ Jim - the loser realms are where unsavoury folk go - right?


The difficulty is illusory.. that we think we are hugging duality when we are duality, both sides of the coin at once. It is fine as it is. Nothing to achieve

Yes, yes... that's it!

We're swimming in duality, We chatter about it with the very
mind that's been spinning it. We're caught in our own web.

The mystics though suggest we're consciousness itself, not the
mind, not its sleight-of-hand. Neither are we the senses or the
magic show that we experience outside.

All that's needed is to take off the blinders and realize who
and what we are. No place to go, nothing to achieve.

"We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our
exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the
place for the first time." - T. S. Eliot


My happiest moments are when I'm not even thinking about anything at all!
More please!

Amen!

Hi Jim
It seems I've done a poor job describing things.

To experience nothing. It's thrilling.

Cheers Brian. Agree with the sentiments.

I admit I'm scared of death, and as my mum once said, "it would help if you believed in God", yes it would, but I don't!

One of my favourite films is the Matrix, and I sometimes think those who are religious are still plugged into it, and don't see, or want to see, the reality of our finite existence.

I enjoy life, apart from mild anxiety (see above), and that is why knowing it will end scares me. The only times I ever feel it would be ok to die is when I'm on my own deep in nature, so maybe there is something about modern urban life that has disconnected us from that which is natural, including death, and has added to our (my) fears.

Always wondered if it’s the fear of death which ultimately seperates the religious from the atheist.

Yip good post, a lot to chew on but mostly also informed by your RS background. Don’t forget you spent 30 years doing it and many blog posts decrying it, including the top 5 of your latest. If you truly not interested why take a chunk outa them?

Me thinks he doth protest too much

@ I’ve come across many times - when something flies by your head and you think “thank the baba”.

Jim, you are sounding very preachy, especially when you have plenty of money to travel around the world and are so insensitive to actually boast about it. Its a pity because I used to enjoy your comments.

I seem to be the only one on Spence's blog AtheistNBeliever and its just me posting quotes that I enjoy, so I'm off now to the Banned and Damned as Jim calls it. What Brian likes to call the place for the 'religious crazies'.

But hey! Its no probs as far as I am concerned because 'we're going to die'. A sense of freedom at last ?!

@Spence, ......to experience nothing, is thrilling, but not as thrilling as experiencing every thing while being nothing.
Jim

Hi Jim
You wrote
".to experience nothing, is thrilling, but not as thrilling as experiencing every thing while being nothing."

Comparisons are odious. Your mileage may vary.

Jen
Your citations at Atheist and Believer are pure sentiments.

There are no bad guys there. But not every one is ready for Sach Khand.

Some of us still have an axe to grind, looking for a tree in someone else's back yard to chop down. .

Yep it sure sounds like they protest too much
Also they're fooling themselves if they believe they're humbly heading for death

Paul kind of put it in a nutshell

"I die daily"

Get that right then go onto the internet and beat your breast at how humble you've become.

D, how do you know how humble someone is going to be as they're heading for death? Sounds very unhumble of you to pretend that you know this.

As for me, I'm even more proud of my humility than I shared in this blog post. But I don't "beat my breast" about how humble I've become. I simply am quietly pleased with my profound humility. Why, I'm even thinking of having a t-shirt made that says "I'm with Humble," with an arrow pointing at my head.

If I become more humble, I'm worried that I'm going to overdose on humility. Probably need to have a card in my wallet that tells an ER doctor to inject me with a dose of ego if I'm brought in with a humble overdose.

Hi D
You wrote
"Get that right then go onto the internet and beat your breast at how humble you've become."

Pot meet kettle.

Brian you wrote
"But I don't "beat my breast" about how humble I've become. I simply am quietly pleased with my profound humility. Why, I'm even thinking of having a t-shirt made that says "I'm with Humble," with an arrow pointing at my head."

OMG, LOL....

The practice of meditation involves sitting still, and trying to put our mind on something neutral, and off the stresses and worries of life.

Over time and practice, our limbs become numb, and while there is a transitional period of minor pain, in time that passes and we are in this wonderful free place. Free of worry, free of the body, at least free of proprioception. This is a neuro/physiological process. There are natural mechanisms in the brain that with practice wet can trigger which turns of body and brain functions... Ie, the practice of becoming nothing.

But the result is that, the less we are thinking and feeling, the more ecstatic we become. In the absence of body proprioception, there is even the sensation of floating up. That can even become rushing upwards.

But the short course is that the less we deal with the body and daily thoughts the more ecstatic the experience. It's very natural and physiologically based.

So death, putting aside the momentary pains, if we have practiced letting go, is likely to be the most joyous experience, from the point of physical sensation, calm and happiness. That nothing is the greatest experience. It's a gift. We just need to practice and appreciate how great it is. Practicing that nothing can bring us into that happiness even as we live. It's a great resource to get us through living!

And if we get good at this physiological and mental practice of being comfortable moving into nothing, embracing nothing, then it becomes far more joyous than any external activity.

If you can turn off much of your brain and some of your body through practice, and it leads to pure pleasure, the greatest pleasure, imagine when all of it goes. Once you accept it as inevitable, you can prepare for it, and it likely can be the greatest high of our lifetime.

Well, as understand it, if RSSB is right, you shall return to this earthly realm and have to repeat all this pontificating all over again. Problem is you might be resurrected as a water buffalo and I dunno how much contemplation is involved there.

Hi Georgy
Your best insurance policy is kindness. Do not cheat, do not lie, do not steal, honor your mother and father, do not defraud, champion the poor, help the prisoner earn pardon, give support to the handicapped, comfort the downtrodden. And build the atmosphere of kindness in your life to do these things.

All else is wasted time. The lover of land acquisition will return as a dung beetle to horde whatever he can claim in battle. And have his fleeting victory.

Every desire earns its due.

Far as I can tell despite many posts on the topic, GSD has not been linked to land acquisition.

He seems to have been found guilty by proxy. Pontus Pilate would be proud. Hell hath no fury like ex-RSSB members scorned. It’s like the Wild West our here, yeehah hang-em high.

No clear objective thinking. Where are the true atheists?

The hope of some contact with the great beyond
We all want some message from that place
It’s the Creator’s greatest mystery that we’re allowed no such consolation
The dead stay silent
And we must wait

Mike,

wow, what a quotation:

"The dead stay silent, And we must wait"
For me it's the quote of the year.

In one line it explains a lot of things.

It's just lovely.


One Initiated
I like this one too, so I posted it here. I heard it years ago on Dr Who. There are many deeply profound quotes etc from non religious/spiritual sources.
To balance the ashtray, as it were, I’ve put this link to the RSSB essay.
The opening gambit below is the bit that gets me.
https://www.rssb.org/essay5.html

Most of us stay in perpetual motion all our lives. Afraid of death, we fill up our time – and minds – with the comfort of busyness, with responsibilities and pleasures. We fear death because it lies on the other side of the barrier between known and unknown.

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