Arguably it doesn't make sense to consider that meditation styles can be classed as winners or losers. But, hey, that's no fun! So in this post I'm going to choose a winner after considering a question I got in an email message recently:
Do you have any opinion as to whether vipassana is more or less equal to RSSB's simran?
Well, of course I have an opinion.
I'm a blogger. Opinionating is what I love to do. I've got opinions on just about everything. Heck, on one of my other two blogs I rated the grocery carts at the three stores in south Salem (Oregon) where I do the weekly shopping for my wife, dog, and myself.
First, let's get some terms defined. Vipassana is a Buddhist meditation practice that is basically what is now called "mindfulness." Sure, there's more to it than that, as discussed in a Tricycle article, "What Exactly is Vipassana Meditation?"
The distinction between Vipassana meditation and other styles of meditation is crucial and needs to be fully understood. Buddhism addresses two major types of meditation. They are different mental skills, modes of functioning or qualities of consciousness. In Pali, the original language of Theravada literature, they are called Vipassana and Samatha.
Vipassana can be translated as “Insight,” a clear awareness of exactly what is happening as it happens. Samatha can be translated as “concentration” or “tranquility.” It is a state in which the mind is brought to rest, focused only on one item and not allowed to wander. When this is done, a deep calm pervades body and mind, a state of tranquility which must be experienced to be understood.
Most systems of meditation emphasize the Samatha component. The meditator focuses his mind upon some items, such as prayer, a certain type of box, a chant, a candle flame, a religious image or whatever, and excludes all other thoughts and perceptions from his consciousness. The result is a state of rapture which lasts until the meditator ends the session of sitting. It is beautiful, delightful, meaningful and alluring, but only temporary. Vipassana meditation addresses the other component, insight.
Simran is one component of the Surat Shabd Yoga meditation practice taught by Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), along with other sects that fall into the general category of Sant Mat. Simran is the repetition of a mantra, so it falls into the Samatha or concentration category, as noted in the passage quoted above.
The other components of Surat Shabd Yoga are dhyan, visualization of an image (usually the face of the guru who initiated the practitioner), and bhajan, listening to a supposed celestial or supernatural sound.
The simran part of Surat Shabd Yoga is what I was asked about, but what follows really is a comparison of Vipassana and Surat Shabd Yoga in general.
I practiced Surat Shabd Yoga diligently for about 35 years, meditating every day from 1 1/2 hours to 2 1/2 hours. For the past 15 years or so my morning meditation has been Vipassana/mindfulness oriented.
The key difference between Vipassana and Surat Shabd Yoga is the goal.
As noted in the passage above, Vipassana, or mindfulness, aims at being clearly aware of whatever is present within one's consciousness.
It isn't other-worldly, unless sensations of another world are present. Typically awareness of the breath is used to calm the mind, though thoughts and emotions aren't rejected in mindfulness meditation, since they can be another object of awareness.
Surat Shabd Yoga, on the other hand, is very much other-worldly. The goal is to withdraw one's consciousness from the outside world, including sensations of one's own body, and bring awareness completely "inside."
Once there, at the eye center or Third Eye, supposedly one's soul consciousness rises to higher realms of spiritual reality, considered to be five in number.
Now, I've used supposed and supposedly to describe Surat Shabd Yoga meditation, but not to describe Vipassana or mindfulness meditation.
This points to the central reason I consider Vipassana to be superior: it deals with what is actually present in consciousness, not with what might be there. Surat Shabd Yoga, on the other hand aims at leaving this world behind in order to gain a supposedly better one.
Even the simran or mantra repetition aspect of Surat Shabd Yoga has an other-worldly connotation, since the Five Holy Names repeated by the practitioner supposedly are associated with characteristics of the aforementioned five higher realms of reality.
So the benefit of Surat Shabd Yoga meditation is much reduced if, as I consider highly likely, the supernatural regions it posits actually don't exist.
Meaning, if there's no supernatural side to reality that human consciousness can become aware of, then Surat Shabd Yoga basically is Samatha or concentration. There's a benefit to being able to concentrate on a mantra or image to the exclusion of other sensations, thoughts, emotions, and such, but otherwise the Surat Shabd Yoga practitioner isn't doing anything special.
Ah, that word, special.
This points to another reason why I now much prefer Vipassana/mindfulness meditation. There's nothing special about it, nor is there any claim that it's something special. It's simply an attempt to recognize whatever is happening with as clear an awareness as possible.
As I frequently hear on my Daily Calm guided meditation via my iPhone's Calm app, "breathing in, know that you are breathing in; breathing out, know that you are breathing out." (Also, as I've noted in a blog post, when locking my car, know that I am locking the car.)
So mindfulness is a universal approach to living.
In a very real sense, there's nothing higher or lower, better or worse, desirable or undesirable. If we're happy, we know we're happy. If sad, we know we're sad. Judgement is absent from Vipassana meditation, as I understand it.
If the mind wanders, we know our mind is wandering. When the mind is concentrated, we know our mind is concentrating.
By contrast, my experience is that Surat Shabd Yoga practitioners -- at least those in the RSSB organization -- consider themselves to be on a very special path that leads to God-realization. The RSSB teachings claim that those initiated by the guru, who is viewed as God in human form, are "marked souls."
Marked, that is, by God as deserving of being put on a path that is guaranteed to lead to God-realization within a maximum of four lifetimes (which entails a belief in reincarnation, obviously).
The Surat Shabd Yoga goal of leaving this world behind to find a better one within the depths of one's consciousness also encourages an unhealthy disdain for everyday life among many devotees. The RSSB guru sometimes is adored more than an initiate's own family, in line with Jesus' supposed saying:
"Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:37)
Bottom line: I'm enjoying my meditation much more now that I've switched to a Vipassana/mindfulness approach. I feel more in touch both with myself and with other people. I no longer consider that I'm on a special spiritual journey leading to the highest divine realm that people who practice other forms of meditation are unable to reach.
It feels good to simply view myself as an ordinary human being living an ordinary life.
But if God or a supernatural divinity actually does exist, seemingly Vipassana meditation will help me be mindfully aware of it, should that divinity deign to make an appearance in my consciousness.
UPDATE: I neglected to mention another reason I prefer Vipassana/mindfulness meditation now. In accord with Buddhist teachings, Vipassana leads to a realization that there's no "self" inside our head, no enduring essence, nothing separate from ever-changing experience.
Surat Shabd Yoga, on the other hand, assumes we have, or are, a soul that is unchanging and eternal, even though there's no convincing evidence of this. So in addition to assuming that supernatural realms of reality exist, Surat Shabd Yoga also assumes that the soul exists.
I want to know reality as it is, as clearly and fully as possible. Fantasies about what could be, but isn't, can be fun to engage in (that's why movies and novels are so pleasing), but they shouldn't be taken seriously.
Wow, I really needed to read this! I was just sitting in my room feeling anxious about a lot of pending deadlines coming up at work.
Surat Shabd yoga was very confusing to me. I remember from day one after getting initiated always resisting “the pull” to go up. It never felt right. And I never cared whether I did my meditation the right way or wrong way I just cared about putting my time in. I enjoyed it because it made me feel very calm and it would clear my head. Occasionally I would see flashes of light and different things but just never wanted that. I don’t know why... might have had something to do with my rebellious 20’s and certain hallucinogenics. Most trips were good but the last was really, really bad so I had no desire whatsoever to see or hear anything supernatural in my meditation.
I love meditation, though. I really do. It always felt good and still does.
I did Simran during meditation as a Satsangi but not during the day. And I didn’t feel guilty about that because the words always felt very strange. They felt like rocks in my mouth. But that’s just me. A lot of people talk about how much they love doing their Simran and they do it as often as they can each day. My husband is really big on Simran. He sits in meditation everyday too but has a harder time with that exercise. And that’s OK.
Other mantras feel better to me but I think that’s because they’re in my mother tongue and have such warm associations.
Anyway, thanks for this! It’s a nice break from the headlines.
Posted by: Sonya | March 19, 2019 at 09:51 PM
Vipassana meditation is from the Theravada tradition so its quite old. Probably its much older than that still. Its premises are based on the fundamental dharmic teachings common to all dharmic paths. That is Seeing into the true nature of existence: impermanence, emptiness, unsatisfactorness. The three aspects of dukkha. Vipassana literally means "Seeing into" which in turn denotes a high degree of mental concentration. A one pointedness to achieve direct knowledge of sukkha-liberation from the these three aspects. Now how to achieve this concentration is a matter of methodology. Mantra\Simran or breathing. To concentrate on that inch of air before it enters your nostrils, or on hearing the repetition itself. Samatha in turn is calming the mind specifically through the breath.
Now. One may try calm the mind and then achieve insight. Or achieve insight and then the mind calms. Its a matter of practice. Iit seems you are talking about Samatha not Vipassana. Moreover, in moderd times Vipassana, as it has been re-introduced, is a practice which involves a 3, 10,20,40 days silent retreat in a buddhist settings. Its a vipassana retreat. So its actually going away from the world.
Your analysis of nada yoga vs vipassana is off the mark. Perhaps you meant to talk about nada yoga vs samatha. Traditionally Vipassana, both etymologically and in its emphasis on direct experience through concentration is the same as surat shabd. Whether this is achieved through breathing or listening is a matter of karmic pull. Samatha on the other hand is calming the mind by not giving any substance to any form or thought or practice. Also. Vipassana, samatha, zazen and all dharmic paths emphasise the outmost importance of a teacher.
Comparing surat shabd with vipassana, in order to distinguish which is best (quoting you "practice other forms of [trancendental] meditation [whose practitioners] are unable to reach" beyond beeing wrong, denotes a discriminatory mind.
Love & Devotion is @ the heart of surat shabd yoga. Surat's (the soul, the attention) is in love and in devotion to the Spirit that creates and permeates everything.
Posted by: E | March 20, 2019 at 02:33 AM
Baba-Ji generally recommends seekers to avoid all sorts of concentration on the breath.... so it seems to be, that simran and vippassana are not likely related..
Posted by: Pema Tej | March 20, 2019 at 06:08 AM
@ Brian - why would you want to be attached to this illusion lol. It’s not real!
Tell me if it is in 2119?? Oh we won’t be here lol.
You kill it with your humouress posts😀
Posted by: Arjuna | March 20, 2019 at 06:46 AM
E, thanks for your comment. I just want to be sure that we're clear that vipassana meditation and mindfulness are very close to being the same thing. Concentration is something different, though mindfulness and concentration work together.. Here's some links along these lines. After them, I'll share a passage from the fourth link that I liked:
https://buddhism.stackexchange.com/questions/12420/what-are-the-differences-between-vipassana-and-mindfulness-meditation
https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/teaching-yoga-and-vipassana
https://inward.nl/blog/mindfulness-meditation/difference-between-mindfulness-meditation-and-insight-or-vipassana-meditation/
http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english_16.php
https://www.thecontemplativelife.org/vipassana
------------------
Mindfulness, on the other hand, is free from all these drawbacks. Mindfulness is not dependent on any such particular circumstance, physical or otherwise. it is a pure noticing factor. Thus it is free to notice whatever comes up - lust, hatred, or noise.
Mindfulness is not limited by any condition. It exists to some extent in every moment, in every circumstance that arises. Also, mindfulness has no fixed object of focus. It observes change. Thus it has an unlimited number of objects of attention. It just looks at whatever is passing through the mind and it does not categorize.
Distractions and interruptions are noticed with the same amount of attention as the formal objects of meditation. In a state of pure mindfulness your attention just flows along with whatever changes are taking place in the mind. "Shift, shift, shift. Now this, now this, and now this."
Posted by: Brian Hines | March 20, 2019 at 09:12 AM
Arjuna, hopefully you're kidding. I ask, because I've known lots of RSSB devotees who really do believe that this physical world isn't real.
There's no evidence of that, actually. So that belief can lead to an unhealthy rejection of this clear and present reality, finding solace in an imaginary world of someone's imagination.
We have to deal with reality as it is, not as how we'd like it to be. That's Meditation 101, the essence of mindfulness. Which is a big part of the reason I now embrace mindfulness/vipassana meditation.
Posted by: Brian Hines | March 20, 2019 at 09:32 AM
@E
Love & Devotion is @ the heart of surat shabd yoga. Surat's (the soul, the attention) is in love and in devotion to the Spirit that creates and permeates everything.
Hi E,
Just a few thoughts here...
“Soul” and “spirit” are the same thing. The soul can’t be separated from Spirit. The separation is an illusion. So, the idea that you need to travel through all these realms to realize that the soul and spirit are the same thing seems odd... a bit dangerous psychologically. It’s the false guilt imposed by your mind that makes you feel separate. Spending hours a day in a practice to reconfirm your self-imposed shame while trusting you’ll see another human to take you through all these “regions” until you get to the point where you realize you’re not separate from yourself seems rather bizarre.
I’ve known several satsangis who’ve described negative experiences traveling the inner regions. It seems those regions are more like lucid dreaming.
My phone just made a typo and put Lucifer dreaming instead of lucid dreaming. Glad I caught that! But it did make me think... you travel through all the realms of the mind to find your soul when you could have just started with that.
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 10:17 AM
It seems what Satsangis are actually trying to do is astral travel.
‘The Men who Stare at Goats’ is a fun film... “psychic abilities” and “astral travel” have nothing to do with being a better person or becoming enlightened anymore than dropping acid or taking shrooms.
This is my opinion, it’s not a fact. But the idea that Surat Shab Yoga can take you to an enlightened region is not a fact either. It’s a group belief but not a scientific fact.
The biggest problem I have with believing you need a GIHF to take you to God is in the first part of this sentence. You need “God” in human form to take you to “God”?
Realizations & epiphanies. They happen in an instant.
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 10:42 AM
@ Brian - yes I was messing .
This world is real for us whilst we are here- and then all that legacy of our lives is being buried six feet under becoming good for worms. Or we are burnt.
Who knows what lies in the end - that I do not claim any certainty (at the moment)
Posted by: Arjuna | March 20, 2019 at 10:42 AM
Sonya, great comment. What we're after is unity. After all, aren't almost all of our problems -- heck, maybe truly all of them -- arise because we consider ourselves to be separate beings?
I'm not denying that pain, hunger, thirst, fear, anxiety, sadness, and such exist. But we suffer most when we feel that we're captives in a world-jail that is unfairly causing us distress. Like you said, recognizing that the Jail Is Us, so to speak, leads to a relaxed acceptance that what there is, is also what we are.
How could things be any different, really? Aren't we made of whatever the world is made of? Don't we act in accord with how the world is causing us to act? It sure seems like reality is more like an ocean with many waves that aren't really separate from the ocean, than like a beach with genuinely separate grains of sand.
Searching for the ocean when you're already part of it is crazy. But that's what dualistic religions, mystic paths, and spiritual teachings would have us do. Right here, right now, we already have what we're looking for, if only we have the eyes to see.
Posted by: Brian Hines | March 20, 2019 at 10:44 AM
Soul = God
In all scriptures & vedas
Jeeva = Soul + Ego
Posted by: Jean | March 20, 2019 at 10:44 AM
@Sonya
'I did Simran during meditation as a Satsangi but not during the day. And I didn’t feel guilty about that because the words always felt very strange. They felt like rocks in my mouth. But that’s just me.
So, you neglected deliberately - Of course This Power
is not your taste in your mouth
You can still try it
Jean
Posted by: Jean | March 20, 2019 at 10:55 AM
Whyyyyyy are there so many Satsangis on this Church of the Churchless blog??? 😱😱😱 My husband always calls it Church of the Godless. 😂
@ilanovich
I just read your post from the last post... a lot of times I forget to go back and read previous posts’ comments when I’m on to a new one.
All I want to say is you need to RELAX. No need to get so upset when you feel one of the minions has gone. There are so many minions more.
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 11:17 AM
It’s like the missionaries have come to Africa. Isn’t there a Church for the Churchful site somewhere?
Actually, I enjoy differing points of views. My husband and his family ardently follow Sant Mat, their guru(s) and we get along fine.
As for my “pride” and “first world problems”, isn’t that like the pot calling the kettle black? I don’t live in luxury or have millions of people bowing down to me every single day.
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 11:30 AM
Leaving aside the supposed theological effects of these 2 meditations, I've found the mental/emotional effects of practicing vipassana vs. sant mat meditation to be markedly different. With many years of practice of each of these meditation modalities, I'm still not sure which one I'd say is "better" than the other. As many others have noted, vipassana sometimes leads to an unsatisfying emotional dryness. Others seem to thrive on it. I think the difference is that successful vipassana meditators (eg Dipa Ma, Dalai Lama, Goenka) strongly incorporate metta (lovingkindness) into their vipassana practice. I've spent time at a theravada buddhist center and wasn't impressed, as the longtime monks there all struck me as having rather grim personalities despite their years of seeing through impermanance.
I find sant mat meditation curiously grounding, though it too has its limitations. One limitation being that practice of sant mat meditation seems to require at least short term acceptance of certain aspects of sant mat theology and guru worship, and that can mess with critically thinking mind. Also, I've found the 5 names to be an exceptionally compelling mantra, and yet the effects of simran diminish the length of time they're practiced.
There are other meditation options that might be explored. I've found that the TM meditation has distinct benefits and it might be worth exploring for people who have problems with sant mat or vipassana. For one thing, there's no "work" in TM as there is with the other two meditations.
One thing more. Despite what Goenka and others might claim, vipassana as most of us know it is actually a recent development, as it's a streamlined approach to meditation that was popularized in Asia only a few decades ago. There's more to Buddhism than endless watching of the mind and body. To paraphrase St. Paul,if there's not love, then meditation is a waste of time.
Posted by: jay | March 20, 2019 at 11:52 AM
Jean, the soul isn't God in Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. That would be heresy.
In the monotheistic faiths, there is a dualism between God and humans. Since I don't believe in God, I don't believe in that theology either. I just wanted to point out that the soul isn't God in all creeds.
It isn't even clear that Christianity accepts the existence of an eternal soul:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul_in_the_Bible
Posted by: Brian Hines | March 20, 2019 at 12:32 PM
It seems what Satsangis are actually trying to do is astral travel.
‘The Men who Stare at Goats’ is a fun film... “psychic abilities” and “astral travel” have nothing to do with being a better person or becoming enlightened anymore than dropping acid or taking shrooms.
Agree totally. The mystic's goal is to fully realize who
and what you are. Astral travel can't "take" you "there".
There is no "there".
Ishwar Puri, a modern mystic, says consciousness is our
essence. We don't go back and merge in the ocean.
We're already the ocean but, with our badly scattered
attention, buy into the notion we're really only "drops"
in it.
This is my opinion, it’s not a fact. But the idea that Surat Shab Yoga can take you to an enlightened region is not a fact either. It’s a group belief but not a scientific fact.
Agree again. Every spiritual claim remains a belief until
you confirm it experientially yourself.
The biggest problem I have with believing you need a GIHF to take you to God is in the first part of this sentence. You need “God” in human form to take you to “God”?
This is a tough to understand. I think the mystic explanation
is that, we've so completely lost touch with the truth of who
we are, we have to project another human being as the
conduit to receive it. Especially in the beginning.
Basically, all the GIHF does, is remind us we are God ourself (God="ocean", the "totality of consciousness") and to inherit
our birthright, you have to look inside, not outside. Not to
some GIFH on a velvet platform but to the one within you.
Realizations & epiphanies. They happen in an instant.
Agree once again. Particularly when we concentrate
our scattered attention back inside.
Posted by: Dungeness | March 20, 2019 at 01:48 PM
Vipassana “freed” me from Santmat.
It was soo good to just feel my real Inside trough Insight.
To see and feel undergo what is in me..just that in such a natural way.
Yes that was freeing.
I also saw my natural devotion..not to a “PLM “
but just the feeling of love.
But also the acceptence of sadness of doubd etc..
To hear..to smell to feel warmth,cold,tiredness,happyness..
Hearing birds and all sorts of things..
Walking meditation is a good thing too
Everything becomes very much alive.
Because of awarenes..
Posted by: s* | March 20, 2019 at 03:04 PM
Both of these methods have great benefits. But what matters most is which method is really natural for you?
For some, being pulled within is very natural, and simran and Dyan help simply to clear away other stuff, though they are of themselves, a source of beauty.
When the mind wanders in Vipassana, you can look at the thought and see it dispassionately, and name it.
But at some point, naturally, the attention returns to the rising of the breath.
In Sant Mat meditation, when the mind wanders, we are told to gently return it to the repetition.
In both cases, the attention on the breathing or the attention on the repetition and imagery creates a focus of attention that leads to an expansion of awareness.
That expansion can be to our outward, or our inward surroundings.
The mind returning to that center is not an act on our part. It happens naturally. Our mind moves in natural cycles. There is a cycle time to how often and when the mind naturally returns to the center, all on its own.
And this begins with our becoming aware, not simply of the new thought, but of the fact that we are now focusing on something new.
If there were no natural mechanism, we would never know we are now focusing on something different than we were. All we would know is whatever we were focusing on at the time.
The very mind that pulls you out, naturally pulls you in. No effort needed.
In that sense, learning to be a passive observer is the key to advancement in both methods, and the reduction of cycle time.
And the expanded awareness of either inner or outer worlds.
Posted by: Spence Tepper | March 20, 2019 at 03:40 PM
"After all, aren't almost all of our problems -- heck, maybe truly all of them -- arise because we consider ourselves to be separate beings?"
Brian,
I wholeheartedly agree, almost all of our problems arise because we consider ourselves to be separate beings. We hurt others because of our own self endowed "special-ness" that makes us feel entitled to having more than others, and we suffer when others do the same to us. If we truly realized and respected our connected-ness to every other living thing, there would be no greed.
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 09:06 PM
@Dungeness
You have a unique way of making your point.
:)
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 10:52 PM
Necessity made us to think and follow the best of the salvation practices. Most of us may have followed the RSSB Guru commanded meditation and also life but disillusioned tried other means which may suit us.
But the promises RSSB makes and owes to their disciples may be much more than any other available means. The problem which has become an impediment to his followers is His mysterious approach to worldly affairs and also add to it a sluggish progress in the RSSB meditative practices which we ever hold dear than any of our acts or duty. Regards.
Posted by: Meditator | March 20, 2019 at 10:59 PM
My brother-in-law and I are pretty close and he was initiated by GSD. He loves Gurinder to death. He finds comfort in Sant Mat whereas it only served to make me feel more separate from everyone including myself, if that makes any sense.
Unity is love. Feeling like your more special or more enlightened than another can only serve your ego. I’m finally over being upset by some of my negative personal experiences with the guru. I don’t envy him either. He’s very likeable when he’s not being all “judgey”. Satsangis say meditation is supposed to connect you with your guru and then your guru connects you with God. It’s so guru centric. Why do they claim you need a “Living Master” when the guru doesn’t initiate you, see your application for initiation or even know your name? My husband never even met his Master. I did but that’s another story.
The Living Master thing really perplexes me and that seems to be the basis of RSSB’s version of Sant Mat. That’s the be all and end all for them.
I have a lot of confounding thoughts about Sant Mat from time to time and that’s one of the top 5.
Posted by: Sonya | March 20, 2019 at 11:09 PM
Hi Sonya
The Cusak clip is quite ‘out there’ and wackily funny. Never thought there’s a place you can visit that’s full of white unicorns - probably located on some internal dweep with the neighbouring one full of hansas. Ha Ha. Apparently you have to be a virgin to ride one?? Ah the purity of the soul…
Hey Jim read your link - I found it interesting, though after my first look the article seems to mix up soul with self-consciousness, consciousness and spirit. I remain of the view that soul represents something original and not in a separated state. I know this is all mental gymnastics but I’d still like to get a better handle on what soul is - maybe whatever it is is beyond words. Continuing with the theme however -
Jean - I like what you said - Soul = God, a non-dual thingamajig :-)
Jeeva = Soul + Ego - Okidoki.
I’m reminded of what Teilhard de Chardin once said ‘A physicist is an atom’s way of knowing about atoms’ (or something similar). Perhaps the Jeeva (Jiva) is the soul’s way of knowing about soul.
Meditation is a lot about realising that the ego part is ultimately illusory, so when this fully hits home everything becomes soul guided and the ego just a tool. But before such awakening the mind/ego has to get sorted via some process, so it (the ego) has an important role to play in the process of ‘getting over itself’.
BFN
Posted by: Tim Rimmer | March 21, 2019 at 12:28 AM
@ilanovich
You’ve captivated me with your charm. Is that how you win over the masses?
Posted by: Sonya | March 21, 2019 at 12:37 AM
@ilanovich
I definitely agree with you, Love is far more superior to intellect. Maybe we can just agree on that for now.
Posted by: Sonya | March 21, 2019 at 01:06 AM
This is my understanding of meditation :- Whether from a Zen Buddhist perspective or a western psychological perspective, my inclination was and still is secular and not inclined to assign life or experiences to religious interpretations. My meditation is also secular. It is not confined to a half an hour or so of 'sitting practice' but to every aspect of my life. It stems from many years ago when driving. I looked into my rear view mirror and saw behind me a row of very vivid-green bushes. I had driven by them twice a day throughout the spring but being immersed in thought had not noticed them. I decided as I had a limited time in this world I'd pay more attention to this grandeur – this included the grandeur of my mind and its processes. This was the beginning of my – shall I call it – my awareness practice.
I kept many notes and soon realised that the source of the experiences and my interest in such matters had a common denominator – 'Me'. So I watched and saw that this 'Me'', this 'Self' had its origin amongst my thoughts. In fact, when I wasn't thinking about it, it ceased to exist. But, just as when protecting my body, when challenged in any way it would 'rear up' and defend itself. My notes were mainly about 'Who am I', or identity. I realised that the 'self' was a construct derived from thought, and that thinking had its origins in my life experiences. Self and mind were no longer mysteries but simply the result of the accumulation of experiences 'stored' in the brain as mind. From this vast store of information (the mind) a self naturally manifests.
I saw that where the self is assumed (and usually unconsciously) to be a real and separate entity, not only would it use information for its day-to-day living in the world, it would also 'latch on' to concepts that appeared to promise more than simple living. Perhaps because it senses its precariousness and inevitable demise it attaches itself to concepts, to beliefs that offer some sort of meaning and continuity that does not occur in real life.
It is quite feasible that in realising the illusion of mind and self as being mental constructs such freeing is enlightenment – blown all out of context and proportion to fit into various inventions to accommodate the insecurities of the mind/self.
Such is my meditation.
Posted by: Turan | March 21, 2019 at 03:00 AM
@Tim Rimmer,...you write,...Hey Jim read your link - I found it interesting, though after my first look the article seems to mix up soul with self-consciousness, consciousness and spirit. I remain of the view that soul represents something original and not in a separated state. I know this is all mental gymnastics but I’d still like to get a better handle on what soul is - maybe whatever it is is beyond words. Continuing with the theme however -”
Me: Glad you read what the spirits answered in the Spirits Book. They must know what they are! But soul in MY view, is a little different from how those Channeled spirits were trying to describe souls. To ME, ALL spirits, including those animating us now, were CREATED Eons ago, in the Dawn of timeless awareness, by the Only ONE Spirit, GOD, ( call God any thing that pleases you), but as each individual created spirit incarnated in to any physical body in The Wheel of 84, Charausi, TIME in Space Began for that spirit who became a soul, at its first incarnation. Now, every one of those spirit/souls became Eternal. There was no soul to possess ir contain Awareness of Spirit who created each spirit, until they became living souls.
Each innocent Created spirit, BECAME a “ living soul” as the “ Breath of God was breathed in to a body at birth” according to the Bible. From that Millisecond forward, Karma bagan for that, and each individual soul.
From there forward, you may continue the soul journey and answer to the soul puzzle by reading my Journey of my soul, right here!
https://eternaloasisofsouls.blogspot.com/2014/11/soul-convicts-wanted-dead-or-alive.html
Cheers,
Jim
Posted by: Jim Sutherland | March 21, 2019 at 03:40 AM
I have this book of inspiration that was given to me by a friend and just happened to read this today:
Love
In honesty, is it not harder for you to say “I love” than “I hate”?
You associate love with weakness
and hatred with strength,
and your own real power seems to you
as your real weakness.
For you could not control
your joyous response to the call of love
if you heard it.
By not offering total love
you will not be healed completely.
Love always answers,
being unable to deny a call for help,
or not to hear the cries of pain that rise to it
from every part of this strange world.
The opposite of love is fear,
but what is all encompassing
can have no opposite.
**********
I don’t normally type out long passages from books but happened to find this one particularly uplifting. Especially the emphasis on fear being the opposite of love. I guess that’s common sense but sometimes people use fear to try and achieve a positive result, which never truly really works. At least not in a lasting way.
Posted by: Sonya | March 21, 2019 at 08:08 AM
I'm a Vipassana meditator myself, so naturally I empathize with a great deal of what you say here.
However, what I find kind of off-putting is the mumbo jumbo that invariably surrounds this sort of thing.
For instance, in the article you've linked, the author/monk says : "It takes years, but one day the meditator chisels through that wall and tumbles into the presence of light. The transformation is complete."
Thus, at its core, Vipassana meditation is not so much simply a means for enhanced appreciation of the here and now, but a means of breaking through to something "higher".
And there lies the catch! Because until you do break through, you are to take this on trust. And in this, as far as I can see, Vipassana is no different than, for instance, the Surat Shabd meditation that your RSSB teaches. (Let me make my meaning very clear, by repeating: In this and this respect alone the two are similar, that both claim to be experiential, and both claims that applied practice leads to very dramatic breakthroughs, which claim you are to take on trust, often for long years, often for all your life.)
Mind, this is not necessarily a criticism. As I've said earlier in more than one comment on your blog, I remain open (and indeed hopeful) of there being a higher aspect to our mundane reality -- while of course realizing that this is something of a long shot, and rationally speaking not remotely likely -- and, because I remain open to this possibility, therefore I am quite willing to test this out myself. Hence my continued practice. (Well, that, as well as the fact that I find meditating both enjoyable and beneficial.)
So well, here I go, playing Devil's Advocate, and pointing out an essential similarity (similarity, specifically in the sense I've described here in this comment) between the Vipassana meditation I myself practice, and the Surat Shabd meditation that RSSB teaches.
Posted by: Appreciative Reader | March 22, 2019 at 07:45 AM
Hello, interesting thread and post! I practiced Kundalini Yoga for 1 year (as taught by Yogi Bhajan who was an initiate of Kirpal Singh) and then I attend a Goenka Vipassana retreat. One day 3, my kundalini rose up and I had the breakthrough experience of emptiness. This is a huge deal, was totally unexpected and quite scary! But what I find so interesting is how all these philosophies and practices are essentially aiming for the same thing, 'enlightenment'. Goenka was Indian and Theraveda was aimed at individual enlightenment. Tibetan Buddhism on the other hand is much more complex and simple, depending on how one sees it. All I can say is, keep practicing! The experience of emptiness is indeed life changing, and can come in many ways, I guess. It doesn't need to take years, it needs 'grace', and that is something one cannot manufacture. I don't consider enlightenment to be a goal or endpoint, but a moment of experience beyond time that hopefully leaves a lasting impression. Remember, Gaia the earth is burning and asking us to wake up!
Posted by: Saraswati | September 15, 2019 at 07:51 AM
Any Way But For Liberation There is only one meditation that is Surat Shabad Yoga As Guru Nanak Said. Nanak Learn the Art of Dying While live So anyway if Any body want Liberation So Follow the Rssb Path And its Your Choice if you Want Reincartion i Lower Species .bye
Posted by: Vishal | November 16, 2019 at 02:06 AM
Though I am not into blogging stuff that much, but, having gone through the article I am a little bit confused. The writer personally might have a different objective that he assumed can be achieved through Vipasna. What if someone has different goal ?
Like, for me I have just 50 healthy years in this world to live providing if I wont get any typical disease or disorder. So what shall I get post noticing things well ?? Eventually, we all have to die, one may attain more wisdom through Vipasna, hence, he or she might live a better life, then again, at the end He/She and the others are same. For me, making 50 years of life better is not that important. Its better to research for the eternal truth that many have experienced in this world. Surat-Shabd Yoga is the practice to die, and many Near Death Experiences tell that they have experienced the Incredible realm of Sound and Light. So for me, Practicing death and trying to achieve that light and sound is better than focusing on things, phenomenons, body parts, materials which are unfortunately perishable.
Posted by: Sumit | March 10, 2020 at 10:33 PM
I find this article so interesting and very valuable. Understanding different prospects are so informative.
I am 50+ male and born in a satsangi/RSSB family and got initiated 23 years ago. I spent almost an hour of meditation daily in these years except a few years at peak of my career. I always found myself highly devoted to RSSB teachings. I didn’t get much inner experiences except a few twinkles of light. I was able to hear inner sounds but never found peace /Ananda in it. As per RSSB teachings it does not matter if you have or not-have inner experience, we need to keep practicing.
Recently, I had chance to attend 10-day Vipassana course, being an experience meditator it was hard for me to stop simran/mantra but for sake of understanding I did whatever best I could. I was truly amazed by its experience. On 8th day when I experienced free flow of inner energy, I felt like in different world. It was an experience which is hard to explain.
After returning home, I switched back to my routine RSSB technique and to my great surprise, I was able to achieve mind concentration so quickly and inner sound was so loud even difficult to bear. I am now even able to sit 3 hours of meditation without any problem and even feel like always willing to do more meditation.
As most of us may be knowing RSSB technique is a combination of Concentration and following Nada Yoga (inner sound). Apart from this, Love is the key aspect. It fulfills the need of different set of people. Those who have very mind and will obey the instructions without any question, Guru’s love is the answer. Due to selfless very deep love, they surrender very easily and achieve the state of “tranquility”. That is why it is called easiest way. However on the other hand, the people like us (The above Love people will hardly read such articles ), it is hard to accept Living Guru as God, can follow the technique of Concentration/Simaran/Mantra (A state of single thought) and once you achieve this state, you can switch to nada yoga (inner sound) (A state of zero thought). RSSB emphases on inner sound (Like eating food) as compared to simran/mantra (Like preparing food).
What I conclude from above is:
One can achieve a state of single-thought through either simran/visualization or through Vipassana whichever is best for you. It is like preparing the food, just a different recipe. There is nothing in the Vipassana which conflicts with RSSB. Nada Yoga/ Inner sound is the next stage which is not taught by SN Goenka Vipassana (For good reason). Even Budha also mentioned inner sound as supreme power (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C4%81da_yoga)
As I explained my experience in the beginning, I found Vipassana is a great way to focus the mind and perhaps it should be a preferred way for the beginners (remember it may take multiple lives to achieve liberation). Following sant-mat/ RSSB inner journey is actually require a saint like level, before that it is a very dry meditation. Vipassana can take you to that level easily. Moving focus point throughout the body is much more easier than focusing at one point.
Currently I am doing both methods, doing Vipassana when mind is scattered and doesn’t like to be focused. Switching to regular Nada/inner sound when focused and truly enjoy it.
Throughout the day, for me, it is easier to do simran (may be due to my old habit), others can observe breath. The purpose is to keep mind inward.
Posted by: Ran | November 28, 2020 at 07:09 PM
This is really odd... I feel like I’m in a time machine. I clicked on the home page link of COTC as I was thinking about Vipassana yoga and this came up. I’m serious when I say I clicke on the CURRENT home page link. Very weird.
Anyway, I’m also confused about Buddhism and what it teaches since there seem to be so many schools of though within Buddhism. Here’s what I found on the web from the BBC:
“What does Buddhism teach about life after death?
All life is in a cycle of death and rebirth called samsara. This cycle is something to escape from. When someone dies their energy passes into another form.
Buddhist believe in karma or 'intentional action'.
Through good actions, such as ethical conduct, and by developing concentration and wisdom, Buddhists hope to either gain enlightenment or to ensure a better future for themselves. These good actions are set out in the Eightfold Path, which includes right speech, right livelihood, and right concentration. Good actions will result in a better rebirth, while bad actions will have the opposite effect.
Depending on the actions performed in previous lives, rebirth could be as a human or animal or even ghosts, demi-gods, or gods. Being born as a human is seen by Buddhists as a rare opportunity to work towards escaping this cycle of samsara. The escape from samsara is called Nirvana or enlightenment.”
So, do Buddhists believe in a soul? It’s confusing and hard to tell.
Posted by: Cait | November 28, 2020 at 10:19 PM