RSSB guru made death threats, says India filmmaker

Looks like a pattern. When Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) is asked to repay money he owes, he doesn't pay up, then makes death threats against the person who wants their money back. 

This is alleged by Malvinder Singh in a criminal complaint filed against the RSSB guru. And now Sheetal Talwar, a filmmaker, is alleging that he also received death threats after trying to recover a $1.25 million loan given to the guru.

A Business Today story tells the sorry tale. I've shared it below. 

Astoundingly, Dhillon requested the money in 2015 to help pay for his cancer treatment. But now this supposed "spiritual" leader not only won't repay the money, his associates are threatening physical harm to Talwar and his family.

I'm baffled by how anybody can consider this guy to be God in Human form, as the RSSB teachings claim. Not only isn't he God, Gurinder Singh Dhillon isn't even as moral as a normal human being.

Most people would be grateful that someone loaned them money for cancer treatment. But Dhillon isn't. While serving as the RSSB guru he and his family have sucked in almost a billion dollars from other fraudulent loans, yet he won't pay back the $1.25 million loaned him by  Talwar. 

What a jerk.

This includes the people who do the guru's bidding without asking themselves, "Is this wrong? Should I really do what the guru wants?" They've surrendered their inherent human morality to a fake guru who cares much more about gaining worldly wealth than doing the right thing. 

Here's the Business Today story. I've boldfaced some especially disturbing parts.

In a curious twist in the ongoing saga of Singh brothers' missing billions, an NRI film producer Sheetal Vinod Talwar has approached the Economic Offences Wing of Mumbai alleging he has been threatened with life after his lawyers pursued repayment of $1.25 million paid supposedly towards Radha Soami Satsang chief Gurinder Singh Dhillon's treatment abroad. "I was coaxed into parting with $1.25 million towards Gurinder Singh Dhillon's treatment and allied expenses in 2015. Dhillon spoke to me twice to help with funds," Talwar told BusinessToday.In in a written response. Money was given to Hong Kong-based company Mega Brave Limited run by RSSB's Lakhi Samtani & Manoj Sabnani.

This is the second criminal complaint against the Baba and RSSB associates. Earlier, on Feb 5, Malvinder Singh had approached the Economic Offences Wing in Delhi accusing Baba Dhillon of threatening through lawyer Ferida Chopra that Malvinder would be eliminated. Malvinder had sought payment of Rs 8,742 crore towards money loaned to firms owned by Dhillon, his family and RSSB associates.

Dhillon did not respond to a detailed email seeking response to Talwar's allegations. Sources close to Shivinder have called the allegations "false" and "rubbish".

Talwar though is a National Film Award winning International film producer and angel investor. His first feature film 'Dharm' was acknowledged with the National Film Award. It premiered at the prestigious Cannes Film Festival. Talwar has produced films such as 'Rann' starring Amitabh Bachchan, 'Mausam' with Shahid Kapoor, 'Rakta Charitra' starring Surya. Among international films, he produced 'The Joneses' starring Demi Moore, the Martin Freeman starrer 'The Eichmann Show', 'Romans' starring Orlando Bloom.

During Sunil Godhwani's tenure at Religare, Talwar launched India's first SEBI-registered film fund - Vistaar Religare.

In his complaint before the Economic Offences Wing of Mumbai on 20 November, 2018, Talwar has alleged that in 2015, Sunil Godhwani and RSSB's Sharan Bhojwani introduced him to directors of a Hong Kong based company Mega Brave Limited-Lakhi Samtani & Manoj Sabnani. He was told Samtani and Sabnani were intimately connected to RSSB. When they found him reluctant to lend, Talwar says Dhillon spoke to him to assure that the money repayment should not be a problem as the borrowers were "extremely wealthy in their own right and it was only because of some immediate restrictions and his health that they were unable to transfer the said amount of $1.25 million".

The complaint filed by Talwar's lawyers Probus Legal alleges Dhillon "took advantage of Mr Talwar's faith and respect towards him and lured him into parting with such a huge amount of money". The petition says despite the fact that "the said advance was a short term loan, our client (Talwar) did not receive any money".

In his complaint before EOW, Talwar annexed an email he wrote to RSSB's Sharan Bhojwani on March 20, 2017, detailing the threatening call: "I am shocked at the turn of events. About 30 mins ago I got a call from a Delhi no. threatening me with dire consequences if I pursued the legal option at Hong Kong. I and my family at Delhi were threatened with physical harm if I did anything that troubled Babaji."

"I was told that Sunny (Sunil Godhwani) and Babaji could not make the payments as it (Religare) had hit the LERMS limit. And that I would be reimbursed when the fiscal began. The requests came from Sunil Godhwani, Sharan Bhojwani and Shivinder. However, I have not been paid the full amount till date inspite of repeated reminders. I have received life threats on phone when my lawyers pursued the balance payments," Talwar told BusinessToday.In in a written response.

"My various emails/calls reminding them about repayment fell into deaf ears and were ignored. This forced me to approach the EOW and take appropriate legal action", Talwar adds in his response to BusinessToday.In.

Comments

[Spence Tepper]

Yes it's another picture of a bird....

Circle meet drain.

[Spence Tepper]

A true Saint saves lives, not take them.

[Radh(er Not) Soami]

Don't believe everything guys! While I am certainly not condoning the actions of GIHF by any means, these kinds of people do tend to come out of the woodwork suddenly (making similar complaints) when a big one is named/exposed. While the plaintiff seems like an accomplished person with both local and international production/direction, his own track record with money is nothing to write home about. Take a look at this:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/heidi-queen-mountain-faces-accusations-missing-payments-crew-berlin-2017-974908 [Not paying and love of court cases!]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/entertainment/hindi/bollywood/news/TalwarEros-lock-horns-over-Mausam-dues/articleshow/12338906.cms [seems like pot calling the kettle black]

https://www.bollywoodhungama.com/news/bollywood/sonu-sood-locks-horns-with-sheetal-talwar/ [Sonu may act villain in films and may be a bit show-off but is decent in interactions]

And that may just be the tip of the iceberg since a person with that pattern of non-payment certainly will not have just few cases.

That said, Sheetal's connections with Religare are certainly on record as far back as 2008:
https://www.livemint.com/Companies/JnMXMZYJVIhn67uF0jk2eM/Religare-in-pact-with-Vistaar-on-Rs200-crore-movies-fund.html

So there is something there, but take it with a grain of salt. My 2cents.

[Arjuna]

Two sides to every story. I don’t buy it.

@ Brian - if he is that bad surely he would have threatened you. You are bad mouthing him after all.

Sorry don’t buy it. Giveing you a -F grade for this one.

[In Search Of]

Interesting background on this Sheetal's love of of the courts.

Do have to admit though, regardless of any truth or not, the news that has come out in the last 18 months is still unbelievable.

I can't remember RSSB being in the news with this frequency for anything prior to the last 10 years, good or bad.
Maybe it's a combination of the availability of the digital format and news availability along with RSSB spreading it's reach and political clout, or...

But again, strange times and worth the effort for everyone, whether a follower of RSSB or not, to take a deep unfiltered look at what's going on and take a pause. Breathe, and ponder over the situation that's unfolding before us.

Brian, thanks for the providing the platform to discuss these happenings, since there really isn't another place to voice our opinions.

[Spence Tepper]

It's possible this will invite all sorts of people, like the Bill Cosby case. But at some point the weight of evidence will support the fact that something was going on, even if some of the claims are ambulence chasers.

The problem with running a financial empire is that even with the best intentions, pressures cause people at different levels to misbehave. The captain of the ship carries the responsibility.

This is why, I believe, a true Saint lives a very small life, without any formal authority, so that their heart and their conscience is clean. Their worldly dealings are absolutely beyond question, and false accusations are easily dispelled.

[In Search Of]

ilanovitch, with disciples like "you", who needs them? Baba Ji has told all disciples to stay off the Blogs and Facebook sites that are not authorized by the Dera.

So I guess you're like one of "us"... lol

[Spence Tepper]

Should a true Saint wind up at the top of a financial empire, it would be a miracle for that empire to run without any subordinate misbehavior. Yet they carry the responsibility.

I don't see it as a job that can be done by someone who is dedicated to saving souls.

You cannot serve the world and the lord together. Either one or the other will suffer. You have to choose what your life is going to be about. Spirit, or money?

[Dungeness]

Should a true Saint wind up at the top of a financial empire, it would be a miracle for that empire to run without any subordinate misbehavior. Yet they carry the responsibility.

Dear Spence,

Without becoming apologist, the shell company executives included
immediate family, didn't they... Shabnam and sons, as well as nephews
Malva and Shivi. To what extent are EOW/SEBI/courts alleging GSD's
culpability or even that he was masterminding the graft?

Or is there some implicit assumption GSD shoulda micro-managed
his own family? Told them how to live and behave in both worldly &
spiritual realm. A "My Way or the Highway" edict. If any of 'em are
guilty, I would think he'd deserve a little credit for not throwing them
under the bus in any event.

Of course if GSD was listed as director/honcho of a shell entity, he
must take total responsibility and issue his promised statement but,
as discussed, the deferral may be on advice of counsel.

Now the opprobrium is growing by leaps and bounds. First came
the death threat to Malva via GSD's attorney. Is anyone prepared
to say attorneys never go rogue? The latest smoke is another threat
of bodily harm - this time to a filmmaker from muffled voices in the
dead of night. What basis is there for innuendo that GSD was
behind either?

There's too much of a rush to judgment even if it doesn't reach
the level of a Kangaroo Court.

[Brian Hines]

Dungeness, have you read the criminal complaint filed against GSD, his family, and associates by Malvinder Singh. It describes how the RSSB guru was involved in fraudulent financial activities, as well as death threats. Sure, these are allegations. But they're believable allegations, especially since GSD has made no attempt to refute them. See:

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2019/02/legal-filing-against-gurinder-singh-dhillon-is-fascinating-reading.html

And the two death threat allegations weren't made informally. Malvinder's was part of a criminal complaint. The new one was made to the Economic Offences Wing of Mumbai. I'm assuming India has consequences for making blatantly false accusations. So why would the filmmaker do this if he made up the whole thing?

[In Search Of]

Just to follow up, and it's been nagging me quite frankly.

If Malvinder is a disciple of Mr. Dhillon, and a close relative, and a father figure to him (Malvinder), then why on earth would he file a legal complaint against his own guru and family member that a death threat was made via the guru's lawyer?

What would possess Malvinder to put that in writing and file it as a complaint?

If you work for the guru in a professional capacity, in this case as a lawyer, you DO NOT do anything that would put your Guru in a bad light. So let's say the lawyer went "rogue" and threatened Malvinder without Mr. Dhillon's knowledge. Don't you think Malvinder would ask Mr. Dhillon why he would do that?

If he didn't ask him, then in his mind, the threat was real and didn't need to be verified. So there has to be some substance to this. There are obviously some conversations we're not privy to and things may have been implied, yada yada, blah, blah, blah.

If Malvinder had a feeling he was not going to get the money back and was going to take the blame for it, he could have just stated that, why put the death threat in there? Maybe his cheese slipped off his cracker from the stress, who knows?

Maybe the insight he had in the lead up to all of this left him disillusioned about the relationship, both family wise and guru-disciple wise also. Not sure, but knowing how the disciple relationship works, saying the guru made a death threat is way out there.

These guys, Malvinder and Shivinder, aren't stupid people, so I'm not getting my head wrapped around this one right now. Maybe we will never find out...

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
It is difficult to say what exactly Gurinder's role has been. Much easier to discuss Sunhil Godhwani, Gurinder's sons and wife, who were directors at Religare, shell companies, and Fortis along with the Singh boys. But since Religare originally grew with Dera money, I think it likely it did so with Baba Ji's knowledge.

" Sunny, as Sunil Godhwani is known among friends, was brought in to manage the finances of the dera during the churn that took place after the passing of Charan Singh in the early years of the new master Dhillon.

" Some old-time mutual-fund managers remember interacting with Sunil Godhwani for the investment of dera’s funds. Thus, he quickly became part of the inner circle of the new master. No wonder when the Dhillon family chose to enter the corporate world, they chose to go with Sunny.

The Articles of Association of Luminous, when originally filed in April 2002, showed that Sunil Godhwani and Shabnam Dhillon were its first directors. Sunil Godhwani continued on the board of Luminous till October 2007, when he took Religare Enterprises to its IPO.

Incidentally, the Religare prospectus says Sunil Godhwani, 46 at that time, had “20 years’ experience in business” and had been the managing director of Religare Securities Limited (RSL) since April 15, 2002. "

https://www.rssb.org/news26.html

When you look at the recipient of the loans, Gurinder's name comes up.

We know that Gurinder, through Sunhil at Religare, had a major role in placing the Singhs and his son in senior positions at Fortis.

The Singhs invested in Religare, Religare forms fortis and puts the Singhs in charge.

Sunhil, and Dera funds, started Religare way back in the 80's.

Although the Religare leadership appears to have changed, when new leaders don't follow suit with Shivinder, they are pushed out...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/chairman-director-resign-from-religare-board/articleshow/62388462.cms

If you walk through a fish market and say "Hey it stinks in here!" you may not be able to pinpoint exactly which fish is the culprit. Likely most all of them.

[Grateful one]

In search of
With every story that has come out in the news you have only heard one side of the story... have not heard Babajis side. I suggest you wait for the other side before forming your conclusions and accusations. Anybody can file and throw shade on anyone they want especially in India. I don’t ask you to take my word for it but please get the full story. There are dangers to a one sided story. This Master practices everything he teaches that’s all I can say. Good day to all. (With folded hands)

[spence Tepper]

If you walk through a fish market and say "Hey it stinks in here!" you may not be able to pinpoint exactly which fish is the culprit. Likely most all of them.

... But when a fish monger claims, amidst that reeking smell, "No fish stinks until you can prove which specific one!" while very much in line with our legal system approach, strains credulity, and deserves a well-earned eye roll.

[Truth be told]

Ok guys beware of this blog as I have posted 3 items as my handle but Brian keeps deleting it after it says it’s posted. So basically your getting a one sided story not a fair discussion of all sides as the comments he doesn’t like he deletes

[spencer tepper]

So we can now add extortion to fraud?

[PJ]

@truth be told
Sometimes comments go to the spam folder, and get published later. I don't think your posts are getting deleted unless off topic.

[PJ]

Brian said:

"So why would the filmmaker do this if he made up the whole thing?"

Good point. This is not a joke, saying this stuff. You can get sued and prosecuted. I'm not saying I automatically believe an allegation, but it does sound believable in context. And where is the rebuttal from GSD? For anything?

[Grateful one]

In search of

[Grateful one]

All this time you are only hearing one side of the story in the news ....haven’t heard Babajis side. I don’t ask you to believe what I say but do hear both sides before you decide anything. Anyone can throw shade or put a case on anyone especially in India. There are dangers to a one sided story. This Master practices what he teaches is all I can say.

[Dungeness]

It describes how the RSSB guru was involved in fraudulent financial activities, as well as death threats. Sure, these are allegations. But they're believable allegations, especially since GSD has made no attempt to refute them.

That hopscotches straight over "due process" to the conclusion
that GSD is guilty. Plausibly, as I stated, the attorney may have
counseled GSD to remain silent.

If not, GSD may have other reasons for doing so such as avoiding
further sensationalizing the case in the press. This is exactly where
the case shouldn't be tried. Armchair lawyers and bigots -on both
sides- look only through their own lens and render kneejerk verdicts.

Or maybe GSD knows others are culpable and chooses not to jump
into the fray. Perfunctory, useless protestations of innocence and
wild unproven accusations are both unproductive. They just fuel
counter accusations and more sensationalism. Sometimes, silence is
the best defense of all.

And the two death threat allegations weren't made informally. Malvinder's was part of a criminal complaint. The new one was made to the Economic Offences Wing of Mumbai. I'm assuming India has consequences for making blatantly false accusations. So why would the filmmaker do this if he made up the whole thing?

I believe threats were made too. But I don't believe GSD authorized
or made them. Given the level of rhetoric and passion, isn't it plausible
some RSSB zealot or rogue attorney could have made the threat on
his own to "protect the beloved Guru (or client) who could do no
wrong"?

On the other side, what can the "torch and pitchfork" brigade cite in
GSD's past to suggest likelihood of guilt? That he's an Al Capone type?
A ruthless businessman whose criminality led him inexorably to corrupt
those around him, defraud, issue death threats, run a crime family?

Photoshopping a GSD picture to look like a mugshot or gleefully
reporting innuendo isn't persuasive. The courts are here to adjudicate.
Let them.

[Daljit]

Do RSSB websites and blogs allow critical posts ?
How much censorship do they have?
Are they as open as this website in allowing all types of comments?

[One Initiated]

Brian, PJ,

No, you do not get automatically sued in India for framing false accusations unless the accused files a counter case on the complainant.
Most commonly if the complainant is proven false, ends up with some monetary penalty for wasting court's time.
In rare cases court itself does suggest the police to proceed against the complainant.

The above posted account of Sheetal Vinod Talwar sounds funny and unarguably false - specially to those in India who did follow the account of Sheetal vs. Sonu Sood.

[In Search Of]

Hi Grateful one.

Appreciate what you've written. But I'm not drawing any conclusions, I'm asking the question. If you read my comment, the tone is one of disbelief that he wrote that in his complaint.

So why would he do that if he wasn't seriously pissed off? Why not just throw Sunil Godhwani and Shivinder under the bus, and leave his guru out of it?

That's the part I don't get. Not drawing conclusions, but one can assume there is something festering there or else why would you put it there? It doesnt help you get the money any quicker...

[In Search Of]

I've mentioned in a previous comment that even if Baba Ji makes a statement that this all false and will be fought in court, it will still be a he said - he said scenario. Disciples will probably believe him, and the doubters won't.

Doesn't solved anything. So at the end of the day, the whole mess becomes a stain on the RSSB legacy and the guru, right or wrong. That hurts me because I grew up in this atmosphere of satsang , seva and guru.

Very troubling.

[Grateful one]

In search of
because he wants to divert the blame and attention off him and on to his guru. These type of blame game cases last lifetimes in India. It’s his tactic.

[Grateful one]

In search of
But this is nothing new Gurus have had to face critism throughout history only difference is now it’s in the digital age so it’s more in your face and your more aware. And did you think everything would work out 100 percent perfectly? Everyone has karmas this is a test. so it’s up to you what to Believe and what not.

[Brian Hines]

Daljit, great point. No, RSSB doesn't have any web sites or blogs where people can freely comment. But I'm pleased to allow this, because unlike RSSB, I believe in free speech and open discussion of ideas -- even, or especially, those I disagree with.

I do have some commenting limits, though. "Trolls" aren't welcome here. Meaning, people who aren't really interested in open discussion of ideas, but just want to spout their own narrow views, usually religious, with boring repetition.

I'll be patient with them for a while, to see if they're really Troll-like, then their comments get deleted.

[In Search Of]

Thanks Grateful one.
I'm choosing to believe and not believe.
I'm quite frankly beginning to be indifferent to the whole thing. It appears that timing is everything, as the saying goes.

I don't have any ill will for the guru or anything like that. Maybe I'm a little pissed that it happened. How could this happen to this squeaky clean RSSB I grew up with? Whatever little faith I did have has moved more into faith in myself.

I know the answer is within me and that is where I will seek it. Just a shame though it has come to this.

Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

[One Initiated]

Yes there isn't any other website where the news related to RSSB have posts where title are covertly crafted to attract more traffic.
On the contrary, rssb.org does publish the bloomberg articles on the official website
for example this: https://rssb.org/news29.html

Brian,
First this above accusation is completely fake and then the news article of this false case which you published has the title that "Babaji's associates threatened" whereas your blog post's title reads "RSSB guru made death threats"
Speaks a lot about your conscience and ethics and also how the digital media is capable of twisting the facts so easily.

[In Search Of]

One Initiated, RSSB has not published anything since then. Especially the editorials from Nov 2018 up to now.

I know because I check the website multiple times a day, hoping they will provide links to this fiasco. Nothing as of this evening.

[Spence Tepper]

There are fake priests, fake leaders, fake gurus.

India has a beatiful history of spirituality, and a parallel history of fake gurus, swindlers.

The claim that "my Guru is so beatiful and powerful..." is the common testimony of both.

So that testimony is meaningless.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Grateful One
You wrote
"All this time you are only hearing one side of the story in the news ....haven’t heard Babajis side."
Yes we have. None payment. Silence. Speaks volumes.

[One Initiated]

So does the fake disciples, Spence.
Where do you belong ?

[The true believers are doomed]

Everyone has their side of the story
Here’s mine.
Swami ji used to spit in the prasad
Those who were not true believers left.
The true ones stayed.
Moses was asked to just watch and say nothing while a holy man did all the wrong things. Moses complained and was then told the reason behind those wrong actions. It was a test of faith.
The faqir who went to see a prostitute and all the disciples vanished.
So many stories.
All saying: remain faithful.
The believers buy it.
Normal people don’t.
The believers are brainwashed.
They cannot think anymore because their faith thinks for them.
They will believe no matter what happens.

[jay]

Gurinder had no health insurance? Hard to believe. His family had no funds to pay his medical expenses, which necessitated million dollar loans from movie producers? There was no dera hospital or satsangi doctors who were willing to treat Gurinder gratis? Also hard to believe.

On the other hand, this makes 2 people who charge Gurinder with making death threats. Multiple sources are more credible than the lone accuser.

Yes, it is illegal to make death threats in India: https://www.quora.com/Is-threatening-to-murder-someone-punishable-in-India

[Spence Tepper]

Hi One Initiated
You asked
"So does the fake disciples, Spence.
Where do you belong ?"

Definitely with the folks who look at objective information, and not with the ones making personal attacks.

But what is a fake disciple of truth?

I think it's anyone who chooses personal comfort above Ahimsa.

I think it's anyone who, while claiming the Master is perfect, actually believes they are perfect, at least perfect enough to judge others without any objective data.

So I would ask you, One, who is the real and who is the fake?

But let me let you in on a secret.....

We are all fake, living in Maya, until we are raised into Truth.

Truth Invites inspection.
Truth loves an honest debate.
Truth welcomes questions...
And raises even more of her own.

I may not be able to tell you what a true disciple of RSSB really is today.

But I do know the vows include living a clean moral life, earning our own way, and not being a burden on others... In addition to vegetarian diet, no recreational drugs or alcohol (or anything made with those) and of course 2 1/2 hours of meditation every day minimum, until the whole day is our meditation. And all these merely the foundation of a life seeking Truth. A life base upon Ahimsa.

A Life giving, not taking.

Seeking Truth, not running from it.

A life as a student, not a teacher.

A life encouraging learning, not a static dogma.

Truth in all her beauty and ugliness.

A disciple of Truth. A lover of Truth.

But as for being a disciple of someone else, I don't know anything at all.

If you are a real disciple of a fake Guru, tell me more about what that is.

I'm happy to be a fake disciple of a fake Guru and a real disciple of Truth.

As a disciple, I'm still learning.

How about you?

Are you a real disciple? Of what?

[One Initiated]

Dear Spence,

You need to asses yourself first, you, without being to India,
ridiculing the most amazing work being carried out under our beloved Babaji and taking all that on a complete discounted tone, badmouthing the Master without a single evidence at hand - isn't all that personal remark ?

What do you think what you are doing here ? Whom you are helping to? the Indian Supreme Court ?
Your whole stand is just laughable.

[Baba]

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/delhi-police-books-singh-brothers-others-on-charges-of-cheating-and-criminal-conspiracy/articleshow/68611401.cms

[Rahul Dhiman]

Brother, if the associates were that bad as you are quoting, Trust me, you would have not been able to post this article but you will never find yourself in any such situation as these two people i.e marivender and talwar are reporting. I percieve that you have every right to speak whatever you want to but still do not just criticize anyone out of no where, like the paid media do ,grow up.

[In Search Of]

Just came out with regard to Sheetal Talwar's allegation that he received death threats from a RSSB Office. Link is below:

https://www.masala.com/producer-sheetal-talwar-alleges-death-threats-from-godman-followed-by-shahid-kapoor-and-his-family

It's a follow up interview to the one from March 27th.

Here's an interesting excerpt:

"Do you think this incident reflects on the growing criminalizing of religion in our country ?

I think this reflects not on not only the criminalizing of religion, but if you move to the genesis of it, it actually stems from the growing endemic mix of spirituality, politics, business and money. The power in being a guru or then being thought of as God in Human form by millions of followers is absolute - and like in any other field - such belief and power corrupts."

[Spence Tepper]

Hi One Initiated
You are making personal accusations rather than addressing in detail the information that has been published by the press, the court, and the securities and exchange board of India.

My comments are only about those documents.
And a few others... The legal document about the new hospital built for RSSB but then handed over to Fortis before construction was complete.

Or the free school in Delhi that was demolished and sold to real estate interests.....

Or the mohali RSSB charitable hospital demolished and land sold to Baba Ji's own holding company.

And of course the fact that Religare was built largely on Dera funds.

Since you claim to be there, then you must know all about these things.

And you could, if you chose to, enlighten us about the intimate details that might help us see it as you do.

Or you could continue behaving in a prideful and imperious way, demonstrating for all to see the problem.

[Dr.Prerna Yadav]

I don't know what personal grudges you have with RSSB , I think your sole aim is to frame out such false accusations and post them here just because you are getting this digital platform to make your own headlines. This is not the first time, earlier also many people have tried very hard to dename RSSB and this time too you will fail. Real people are not gonna believe anything ,this is India where media can put anything which catches attention.Invest in some thing productive.Radhasoami ji

[In Search Of]

With all due respect D. Prerna Yadav, the info related in Brian's blogs are based on the SEBI findings and court orders, in addition to the newly filed FIR against Malav, Shivi, Sunil G, others mentioned and still to be identified..

Nothing is made up. If you follow the links Brian and others have posted here, they are all based on the above findings. The real issue you're attempting to address, in my opinion, is that Brian's blog puts these findings on a platform where the average person can view and comment on. Where else can you do this? On the RSSB website? Definitely not, nor elsewhere openly.

The findings and reports that have been filed are part of public record. Now, within the filings some allegations are made, which we cannot take as fact, but we can draw multiple conclusions from. That's all.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dr. Yadev
There is now a very real criminal investigation going on regarding the Singhs and Godhwani, including their indictments as of yesterday, regarding in part illegal loans they gave to Dhillon family members, who participated in business dealings, who may have participated actively in the fraud, and who have accepted these loans and never repaid them for years. They are estimated to be anywhere from 2,000 to 5,000 crore Rs.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/delhi-police-books-singh-brothers-others-on-charges-of-cheating-and-criminal-conspiracy/articleshow/68611401.cms?from=mdr

What exactly does this mean? You can review the evidence for yourself.

It means something, and you are invited to share your reflections on these very real events.

It also means that even Satsangis such as you and I are not perfect, and as there have been false Gurus in the past, our judgement may be mistaken on both sides of the discussion. Here is where objective facts become so important, as they become available.

Therefore we should weigh facts and make decisions based on facts at all times.

I don't agree that devotion to a true Saint includes blind faith or superstition.

And India, and the world, have had their share of powerful, charismatic frauds who have done much harm, empowered by millions of followers who have given their allegiance blindly, falsely, emotionally, to these attractive, humorous, intelligent, charismatic and magnetic swindlers.

The harm, then, the Karma for this harm rests with those followers who backed them, who chose to leave aside their capacity to think and to know right from wrong, and indeed their duty as an adult.

What appears charitable may have a very dark and harmful side. It's standard course for human history.

If you're meditating, certainly that should improve your discrimination, not degrade it.

Keep in mind that on this web site many of the individuals on both sides of the discussion are Satsangis, including the author of this website. We are all devoted to truth and kindness and the basic principle of Ahimsa: 'First, do no harm.'

But if there is a possibility, however ugly or painful, that we are assisting in giving power to criminal behavior, we must change our course.

[No one]

Reading and pondering everything.

Now m thinking what change has RSSB teachings brought into my life. And answer is I have been as light as a feather. When my gf ditched me after 8 years of relationship, anyhow I survived that big mental agony but why ! I have seen people committing suicide and weeping out to their heart. Why didn't I do so.

I have seen my brother always being in tension even after earning handsome money, he is worried about things he don't have. Buy why I am not worried even after earning half the amount he earns ?

I have observed a power saving me many times from troubles, otherwise those would have costed me my life. but why does it happen to me ?

I have no answer than....I follow the teachings of RSSB and not only follow I try to do all the sewas as mentioned by rssbs... Physical (not only at RSSB centres but in every part of my life), monetary (not to rssbs but on milap.org), by heart and simran.

I don't know if babaji is responsible or are really behind all those shits but as RSSB teachings say that the true relationship between a guru and disciple can only be felt, I am feeling the importance and positive effects of that relationship in my life.

I can't explain that in words.

And someone said that we are brainwashed... Fine. In Geeta after teaching everything to Arjuna Krishna told him to forget everything he was taught. Krishna said him that you just come to my shelter, I vl myself take care of your problems and issues but u vl have to follow all what I say without any questions.

Even guru angad dev ji made mud houses on the order of guru Nanak dev ji more than 72 times. After 10 to 12 times every disciple started thinking that guru nanak dev ji has gone out of mind but guru angad dev ji (bhai lehna) kept making. Was bhai lehna ji brainwashed ??? No. He was just taking the test of guru and then was appointed as second guru of Sikh dynasty.

I don't know what more to say.

[Jen]

I agree with what you say "No one" in your comment above. I still think of myself as 'being on the Path', sticking to the principles and I often think how wonderful it is when things seem to magically work out for me. I think focusing on being positive and not blaming others is very empowering. Sometimes I feel like I have some kind of mystical guardian angel. Probably it is the Shabd, the audible life stream. I am very grateful.

Quote from Spiritual Database:

Audible Life Stream: The Source of Everything

"Who can comprehend it or assign qualities? 
Who can analyse it? 
But we know from its manifestations that it has at least three very wonderful attributes:
Love – Wisdom – Power"

http://spiritualdatabase.blogspot.com/2015/03/audible-life-stream-source-of-everything.html

[Anon]

No one and Jen
I feel the same way. Very nicely put indeed.

[No one]

Very true, who can comprehend and who can analyse.

Whatsoever is going is very good and it must have happened cause the result whatsoever will be will help souls like us to attain new path in life. Either the result will destroy us completely or will make our believe more firm in him.

But.............................
Whosoever is putting negative comments or are against RSSB, I firmly mark... the joy, the love and bliss of his companionship in my dhyaan is the biggest happiness that I have ever got in my life and I would never get such happiness in worldly thing.

[U dont have to know]

Hello sir
GSD were declared the hair of the trust in1998 I guess and he took the responsibility of the trust in 1990 . Its almost 30 years isn't it?? Then why now ?? Earlier Shivender singh left everything for sewa in Beas n now his brother is accusing GSD for fraud n extortion? WHY NOW ?? Why not 3 years back or 5years back ?? We have never heard any satsangi or authorities of beas asking for sewa(money) there are thousands of people who eat langar day and night and they cant put sewa in the box but they are never asked to leave without food . What rubbish are u talking about ?? Have u ever visited Beas yourself ? Have you ever attend one single session of satsang or questionnaire? Your analysis is incomplete and that is doing harm to an entire community. So please mind your words n please do the homework first then come back .
RADHA SOAMI
(Please mind my english)

[Jesse]

"Why not 3 years back or 5years back ??"

This case goes back much further than 3 years, guy. Read first, talk later if you don't know the first thing about it.

And everything has a time. "Why now? DERRRRRRR????" Do you drool? Why do murderers murder at the time they murder, and not at the moment of birth? Why not at conception?????? Why don't they continuously murder every second of their existence, even though their own mothers say that they're good boys who didn't do nothin wrong?

Go take a nap and let the world continue without your disturbance, "U dont have to know." You're an irritant.

[Jesse]

"When my gf ditched me after 8 years of relationship, anyhow I survived that big mental agony but why ! I have seen people committing suicide and weeping out to their heart. Why didn't I do so. "

Because she was a ho and you're probably a sociopath. Millions of breakups happen daily, you're not a saint because you didn't commit suicide, psycho. Most people don't commit suicide after they get dumped by random chicks.

"Even guru angad dev ji made mud houses on the order of guru Nanak dev ji more than 72 times."

These stories end up in every single eastern religious tradition and are from the janam sakhis which are basically like fairy tales for Sikhs. There is no value in quoting them in any form other than crude teachings to people who need help understanding the most basic questions in life and would murder if they weren't taught not to.

You RS people need to stop proselytizing. You're disgusting animals trying to dupe more people into your backward cult thinking.

[Jen]

@Jesse,

You go too far, you say... "You RS people need to stop proselytizing. You're disgusting animals trying to dupe more people into your backward cult thinking."

Why the constant nasty attacks? Do you get off on this because you are living a very miserable and unhappy lifestyle, so you take it out on others? If its just for fun then you have a mental problem imo. I don't understand why some people have to be mean and bad tempered All The Time! Give it a break bro, have some compassion, people have feelings and these people you are talking to have their own difficult lives to live and if they find comfort in a spiritual path... so be it.

[Jesse]

"Why the constant nasty attacks?"

Because I amuse myself by speaking truths with extreme hyperbole.

Trying to con people into worshipping criminals is pretty animalistic and disgusting. Start calling out these frauds and your energy wasted being on the internet will at least help the world slightly. Enforcing more politeness is what gets us into these messes.

[Jesse]

"if they find comfort in a spiritual path... so be it"

If I find amusement in mocking them, so be it. The world isn't Disneyland. You're not going to acheive the mono polarity of bleached smiles that you hope for.

People murder each other all the time and you're hurt by me mocking religious people. Makes no sense.

[No one]

Great Jesse....

First thing, you can see my comment. I didn't make any single effort to proselytize, my whole comment was about my experience of being into RSSB, or you can say what changes occurred being in there.

Second thing, why am I wasting my time here and why so my other indian natives are. When the person saying all good an bad is not from my country being completely unaware of what my culture and society is and for him janam sakhis are nothing more than fairy tales?

You said all those written in Janam Sakhis are fairy tales. Fine those are.

Now u would say that all those who sacrificed their life for saving Hinduism under guidance of Guru Gobind Singh ji that is marked in history and have evidences too are also fake.

But do mark, that all is not fake. So were all they fool who sacrificed their lives and of their children on call of a Guru Gobind Singh Ji ??? No they all were supercharged by the power of spirituality that made them so brave, so fearless that for righteousness they withstood death without any fear. Am I proselytising RSSB's teachings now ???

You know you became too personal to call someone sociopath in a discussion that sounds quite immature. Fine I being sociopath didn't commit suicide or kill her ???

Mr. Jesse In my life I have seen umpteen people never been ready to listen other just proving to be always right and Jesse in ur reply u too did that. Your cup is already filled with no room left for other things to be poured.

Now question left for GSD involvement into financial fraud. We are eagerly waiting for the results of investigating agency, and whatsoever will be the decisions of supreme courts we will withstand that.

[Jen]

Well Jesse, now I'm trying to figure out why I was triggered into responding to your angry outbursts.

You say its "Because I amuse myself by speaking truths with extreme hyperbole".

Okay. I shall just leave it at that. Sorry, its actually none of my business. To each his own.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi No One
The wait is over, at least in part.
The high Court of India has met, deliberated and determined that Gurinder, his wife and sons, other Satsangis involved all owe millions of dollars and they are delinquent in payment. The court ordered all the above to pay immediately to the court directly.

Guilt and responsibility has already been determined by the highest court in the land. And Gurinder is guilty and responsible for every single Rupee that went into his hands.

[Mr. Curious]

No one, the court's already decided. Your eager waiting is over. GSD was found to be involved (along with others) and his assets will be liquidated. You're a bit in denial.

I don't doubt your life improved bc of the path. That, however, is due to any positive lifestyle changes you made and the power of belief. Not bc GSD is GIHF. God doesn't need millions of dollars, dozens of fake companies and a private jet.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi U don't have to know
You asked
"Then why now ??"
Because the fraud committed at Ranbaxy, including tainted meds, by the Singhs has resulted in a 500 million dollar fine. Which they have not paid. So the courts are involved. They investigated and found the Singhs had given a lot of that money to Gurinder, his wife and sons and other Satsangis in fraudulent loans. And worse, they siphoned other people's money to Gurinder, his wife and sons and Satsangi followers.

And Gurinder, his wife, his sons, and other Satsangis haven't repaid.

So now, just this week, the high court of India is ordering Gurinder, his sons and wife, and other Satsangis involved, to pay the court directly.

Then the court will repay Daiichi, who bought Ranbaxy.

Along the way several audits have revealed fraudulent siphoning of money to Gurinder, his wife and sons, and other Satsangis, by close Satsangi friends of Gurinder, his wife and sons.

This is all catching up to him. The thefts, the fraud, the tainted medication, this is the year the house of cards can no longer stand under its own weight and is collapsing.

The problem with Gurinder's blind ambition was always there. But we all made excuses for it. We assumed it was divine. But it was just blind ambition.

[Jesse]

Jen, I actually like you. I find it interesting that you get pissed off about something, then seem to judge yourself for being pissed off. I do the same sometimes and I think it's one of the best and worst things about humanity at the same time. We second guess ourselves and attempt to restrict our nature, which is great in the short term, but probably leads to many of the weaknesses that plague civilized man.

But I don't care about what I say online in regards to these cults and their promoters. If someone wants to express all kinds of fake love and sentiment about some guy s/he has never met and knows nothing about, they are asking to be mocked and insulted with equal and opposite fervor. If you say he's a god and a saint and his followers are just humble people looking for help, then I say he's a devil and a criminal and his followers are wolves in sheep's clothing trying to destroy the whole world with their filthy tricks.

[Jesse]

"Now u would say that all those who sacrificed their life for saving Hinduism under guidance of Guru Gobind Singh ji that is marked in history and have evidences too are also fake. "

Have you ever met a Sikh, and do you know how much they hate when Hindus say that they exist for no reason but to save Hindus? You're a dense and uneducated dork. Go to Harmandir SAhib and start telling them that their religion is about saving Hindus and see if you get laughed at or slapped across the face.

"No they all were supercharged by the power of spirituality that made them so brave, so fearless that for righteousness they withstood death without any fear. "

LOL ok man. They fought a few battles. Not the first or last people on earth to go to war.

You're the type of dude to lose a game by 100 points but celebrate like a madman every time you almost score. Total loser mentality. Sorry your girlfriend dumped you, but it's obvious why she did.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
You wrote

"And everything has a time. "Why now? DERRRRRRR????" Do you drool? Why do murderers murder at the time they murder, and not at the moment of birth? Why not at conception?????? Why don't they continuously murder every second of their existence, even though their own mothers say that they're good boys who didn't do nothin wrong?

"Go take a nap and let the world continue without your disturbance, "U dont have to know." You're an irritant."
....
" Because she was a ho and you're probably a sociopath. Millions of breakups happen daily, you're not a saint because you didn't commit suicide, psycho. Most people don't commit suicide after they get dumped by random chicks."

...

Please stop! It's impolite. But more importantly my side is hurting like in real pain from uncontrollable laughter....

And I'm running out of tissues from the tears accompanying the laughter...

So just stop... At least long enough for me to take a breath and open another box of kleenex.
;)

[Dungeness]

So now, just this week, the high court of India is ordering Gurinder, his sons and wife, and other Satsangis involved, to pay the court directly.... fraudulent siphoning of money to Gurinder, his
wife and sons, and other Satsangis, by close Satsangi friends of Gurinder, his wife and sons.

This is all catching up to him. The thefts, the fraud, the tainted medication...Gurinder's blind ambition was always there. But we all made excuses for it. We assumed it was divine. But it
was just blind ambition.

Ah, good. A commendable job of detailing court rulings which track
illegal funds to Dhillon family and friends. Not a whiff of psycho-babble
either... at least to start.

But then without a predicate, your narrative becomes all about "him"
and "Gurinder's blind ambition". Or is it that just shorthand for the Dhillons
and others so you really meant "them" and "their blind ambition"? "Of
course, of course". you say... "do we have to spell it all out"?

Or is this just an inference that "GSD hadda to have known... what kinda
GIHF woulda not known? So let's cut to the chase and crown him 'The
Mastermind'". That's what he is! We all know a GIHF can be a fraudster
even if mumbles that he's only a sevadar, right?

By their fruits, ye shall know them. You want evidence of GSD's rotten fruit?
Look at those ginormous Satsang centers that are getting built, that jet-
setting around to give Satsangs, his heretical changes to holy RSSB dogma,
those cruelly cutting put-downs's of questioners, and gasp... telling off-
colour jokes Charan wouldna never dreamed of.

Proof positive! He is the "Anti-Baba!" Truth-telling, fact-loving Blogger Ji's are
here to expose this corruption, smite the unholy, rebuke those credulous,
blind fools that understandeth not a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Halleujah, we're free. Washed clean in the Blood of the Blog. Our inner warrior
has slain the sheep of blind belief. We'll feast on seared mutton tonight.

[Jesse]

I'm being unreasonably negative today, Spence, cause I'm just not in the mood for bad ideas and even worse defenses and justifications that never seem to change regardless of how the information we have on the case changes. Glad someone is getting a laugh out of it at least.

The only cult I'm interested in defending at this time is the NXIVM cult specifically because Alison Mack is extraordinarily gorgeous and has my favorite shape of teeth. If they can settle out of court or whatever it'd be so amazing to take over after Keith Ranier and get a chance to own her with the purpose of helping her "personally develop" like he did. Get her branded with a big J and really help her succeed.

For those who don't know, this is what I'm joking about, though the reality of it isn't so funny-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NXIVM

[Jen]

Jesse, I remember when you left. Was it about a year ago? So here you are back again still stirring things up and I actually do find it quite entertaining. I do like your honesty, even though it can be quite brutal at times.

So Gurinder has been neither vindicated nor brought down, although with all these money problems and the constant barrage in the Indian newspapers and on this blog about it, I'm surprised he is still surviving.

I still believe in karma so it doesn't bother me too much. I do feel for those who still have faith but we all believe what we want to anyway.