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March 12, 2019

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ilanovitch
These are the same people that tell us to not go after money and greed. Even if GSD is innocent, huge doubts need to be placed on him.

Master will be fine! Have faith brother and sisters.


Lastly, someone emailed me today, saying that I've been using an official photo of Gurinder Singh Dhillon that doesn't capture his true personality. Here's a likeness included as an attachment to the email.

Yep, the only enhancements I can see would be a touch more
"red eye", slightly deeper frown lines, a twistier mustache, and
maybe, just maybe, a bit more visibility of the mouth to see the
hidden, cruel sneer.

It's all a trick of Kal, the negative power, to make the Perfect Guru look bad. Don't pay any attention. It's a test of faith. Do not succumb and you will be rewarded. Continue with your simran and bhajan with love and devotion and don't eat any pie crusts with a brushed-on egg white glaze.

During the 60s, 70s, and 80s, Charan initiates marveled at the dera, calling it "heaven on earth" and "the enchanted land." No one asked where the money had come from to develop the dera. No one asked who was paying for the free langar and the dera hospitals. No one questioned how the guru Charan Singh Maharaj was living as a king without employment.

Great review Brian! Interesting to see today's latest article in the business press, and their graphic of where the money went.

One more bird picture to add to the other 6,000.

When does "borrowing money" turn into robbery?

1. When you fictitiously and fraudulently attempt to cover it what you took, to falsely paint a financial picture that you had repaid your loan when you had not.

2. When you take new loans on top of the old ones before you have paid the older ones, and the debt climbs to hundreds of millions of dollars and....

3. When you let the corporation that lent you the money take the fall for the fact that you haven't paid a penny.

4. When you don't publicly acknowledge your debt and offer a means to make up for it.

5. And when you attempt to continue the cover-up by having those who love you assume responsibility for the money you took and didn't repay.

6. And you do this to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

That isn't "unrepaid loans". That's robbery.

Imagine if we knew about what our past actions in previous lives were. If you still believe in the theory of Karma... We would be ashamed of ourselves.....this is nothing. This will not impact RSSB followers.....you are the same as those who persecuted Jesus and other Saints of the past....Brian is the likes of antifa and Wolf Blitzer....he should actually work for CNN....

pj2000, so tell me what is factually wrong in the blog posts I've written about the RSSB guru. Don't count the opinions I've expressed based on the facts reported by the Indian financial press, the SEBI investigative report, and Malvinder Singh's criminal complaint.

It isn't "persecution" to report facts. Quite the opposite. Truth-telling is a virtue.

You seem to be implying that Gurinder Singh Dhillon is suffering now because of prior past bad karmas. I agree with you, so long as we accept that those negative actions didn't occur in previous lifetimes, but in this lifetime.

Brian wrote:
"Lastly, someone emailed me today, saying that I've been using an official photo of Gurinder Singh Dhillon that doesn't capture his true personality. Here's a likeness included as an attachment to the email. Reportedly it was taken at a distance by someone close to the guru, then cropped and enlarged. "

Brian, gossips are not good.

The photo above is also an official one and is available on rssb official website.
here is the link:
https://rssb.org/images/Photos/popup_Babaji_Gate.jpg

High res can be downloaded here:
https://rssb.org/images/Photos/Baba%20Gurinder%20Singh%20Ji-Dera-11x14.jpg


When you fictitiously and fraudulently attempt to cover it what you took, to falsely paint a financial picture that you had repaid your loan when you had not.

Kinda like photoshopping an old GSD photo into a mugshot...
pre-indictment, pre-conviction.
.
After all, with a photo like that, who else could be the
mastermind of the Dhillon crime family? Or, dunno, maybe
the idea was just to depict a quiet, serious moment.
Who knows, some may even read from his pose, a little
compassion for the many harmed in this drama.

Nah,,, everyone who's exercising their passion for facts and
self-evident truth knows he was behind the whole criminal
enterprise. Or at least should be 99% sure.

Hi Brian!
Keep up the good work.

Hi pj2000,
you wrote:
"you are the same as those who persecuted Jesus..."

You know pj2000, Jesus overturned the tables and angrily threw out the money lenders doing business on the steps of the temple.

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

— Matthew 21:12–13

Brian is doing Maharaji's work.

So, between Brian and Gurinder, who is in the role of Jesus, and who is in the role of the thief?

"15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—
. . .
"24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time."
Matthew 24:15,24-25


The big news is coming...wait for it...GSD will be proven not Guilty...

You have made him Guilty without trial....Brian why dont you reach out to him....after all you are doing Mahara ji's work LOL like he appointed you to be master hahaha give me a break.

@spence
Do you know WHY the sebi report and the news articles do not use the word robbery and you do?

It's because you don't understand the meaning of robbery.

here it is:
the action of taking property unlawfully from a person or place by force or threat of force.

So where was the force or threat of force?

There was none.

do you think that people who default on their credit card payments should go to prison?

I had a lodger recently. She was from India and came to the UK as a student. She bought an Iphone X on contract and only made the first three payments and took the phone with her. She still owed the phone company over £1200 and still gets letters demanding payment. She also took money on two credit cards and then left the country with that money, with no intention to pay it back.

What do you think we should do to her? Should she be locked away? Serve 10 years in prison? It was INTENTIONAL and it was fraudulent. It was a crime.

Let's take some more examples of crimes. If you have ever run a limited company, it is now a criminal offence to file the company accounts late.
it is a criminal offence to fail to buy a TV licence in the UK.

It is a criminal offence and fraudulent to fail to file your correct income and "Hide" some cash payments - yet probably every citizen does this except those who don't work and live on benefits.

Everyone does it - but hopes not to get caught. it is the same in the corporate world. You act as if this the first corporate fraud in history.

It happens every day.

This has only made the news because of two reasons.
1. The scale is huge
2. The people involved are famous. The singh brothers were infamous for being one voice in two bodies. They never said a bad word against each other and were international heroes. The same with Gurinder. A guru you could not say a bad word about.

But Gurinder never claimed perfection, even before this incident.
he never claimed it because there is no such thing.

He is a human, just as you are.

He has no special powers and has never claimed any.

Just as you and I have no special powers.

He also says we all have karmas.

Not that I believe in karma theory anymore.

Now you can project all the old teachings onto him. And then show him as a fallen guru.

I say, he was and only claimed to be a human.

Same was what David Lane said to me about Charan Singh back in 1990 or so when I met him. He said "I consider Charan Singh to be a man, so my faith can't shatter as I don't make him out to be a God"

So does Gurinder ask to be worshipped? Does he have people bow to him? Does he put himself on a pedestal? Does he claim special powers?

He simply advises people to do the best they can.

Now let me ask a bigger question. Is there anyone who has not done anything "wrong" in their life? Of course everyone has done "wrong" and hardly anyone admits it.

I used to run a seminar called "Transformation day" and during the seminar I would say
"Raise you hands if you have ever met a BAD person?" Every had shoots up.
"Raise your hands if you have ever met anyone who is "NOT NICE"." Again every hand is up.
"Raise you hands if you've ever met a criminal." Once again all hands are up.

Then I switch over.

"Raise your hands if YOU are a BAD person." Not a single hand goes up.
"Raise your hands if you are a NOT NICE person." No takers.
"Raise your hands if you are a CRIMINAL." Once again no hands.

Then I ask the BIG one.

"So, WHERE exactly are these BAD and NOT NICE and CRIMINAL people?
Because there sure as hell are none in this room!"

What does this show? We are all LIARS, fraudsters, and at times NOT NICE.

But and it's a BIG BUT (no pun intended) we will NEVER ever ever ever ADMIT IT. Why not? because then it's GAME OVER.

GAME OVER? Yep. GAME OVER.

What Game?

The game of life. The game we are all playing.

The game that says "I am a good person, but you are fucking idiot"

Everyone does whatever they need to do to have the maximum pleasure in life and the minimum pain.

Applies to every human on the planet, from the beggar on the street to the president of a country and to every guru too.

It applies to YOU and ME and everyone.

In short we are a Pleasure Seeking and Pain Avoiding Robot. No exceptions.

Applies to a Mother Theresa and to a hardened criminal serving 10 years.

We all do what we are no "Supposed to do" and we do out best not to get caught.

We all Speed when nobody is looking. Just watch the traffic before and after the speed camera.
it goes like this: 80mph.... 70.... 60..... 50..... 50..... 50..... 60..... 70..... 80......

and if you carry on doing 50..... people will be honking their horn and calling you a nuisance on the road.

Just watch a programme called "Mystery Diners"

every employee on the fiddle against the very business that is paying their wages. When they get caught, they deny it. When they see the footage and cannot deny anymore, then they justify it.

This is ALL HUMANS. There are NO EXCEPTIONS.
Donald Trump does it. A Guru does it. I do it. Spence does it. Brian does it.
Even 777 does it but it will be hard to understand what he writes if we ask him, so won't bother.
Mother Theresa does it. Osho (the real one, not me) does it. Gurinder does it, Ram Raheem does it.

Humans find loop holes. If there is one - we'll find it.

RSSB teachings themselves are a loophole.

If you meet a Perfect Master, he'll give you INITIATION and will meet you at death (loophole) and you'll avoid the angel of death and the guru will drop you off at one of the regions where you can continue your meditation and then finally reach Sach Khand. Once there you can meet Sat Purush, a being of immense light, and enjoy a cup of tea with him.
It's all a big fucking loophole.

Jesus was a loophole. No way you're getting to the father except through ME - Jesus

We are all in the same trap.

"I am OKAY - but you are a FUCKING IDIOT"

Laugh if you want to - but it's true.

When I go to the Mic at Haynes to ask a question (which I don't have)
I can see it clearly.
They all think "Fuck me - it's that fucking idiot who thinks he is cleverer than BabaJi again. "
Not that I care - Like I have said many times - I like some entertainment from time to time. Otherwise I get bored, just waiting to die.

Look Osho, spirituality aside, a good human being doesn't engage in deceit.
A good person earns their own living, and doesn't harm anyone.
And though even a good person makes mistakes, a good person does what they can to make up for those mistakes, and takes responsibility for themselves.
They don't lie / make up fictitious stuff.
They don't deceive trying to cover up loans they haven't repaid.
It's all so simple.

And they don't let other people take the blame for their actions.

A good person does the opposite. They reach out to cover the mistakes other people make.

It's not complicated when you don't have an attachment to someone.

And when you do have an attachment to someone, you should be acting for their welfare, not to enable their addictions to money, power, etc.

GSD is going to release a fury of info and you will all stand down wait for it!

@Spence
This has nothing to do with Gurinder. Read my comment again.

So are you saying you are a good person?
as defined below:
Never lies
Never deceives
Never cheats
Never speeds
Never done any harm to anyone in your whole life - not even an enemy

in fact just look at your own list and tell me that you have never done any of those things


@ Pj2000, Yes I am looking forward to this result: Gurinder "proven not guilty".

Simply because of the self righteous outrage and condemnation here on this blog.

Everyone of us has a kind of fake self image. Don't we pretend to be kind and loving but actually hold all sorts of nasty opinions about others. We try to be genuine and act truthfully but we know deep inside ourselves that we are just playing some kind of game in many different ways simply to survive.

As Osho says "Gurinder never claimed perfection, even before this incident".

What I am saying is

Everyone does what they can for themselves.

The most popular radio station in the world is WIIFM.

Or my version WTFIIIFM

What’s In It For Me

It’s the same in RSSB

The disciples are in it for themselves.
The secretaries and speakers for themselves.
Gurinder for himself.

Everyone for himself

There are no “good people”

There are no “bad people”

But to “me” it appears like there are good and bad people.

Because I have an agenda which is to look after me.

So anyone who helps me is good
Anyone who harms me is bad

Not really, just how it seems to me

If some billionaire calls you, me, anyone.
And says “I have an opportunity for you to make one billion dollars”

And then offers you a deal that involves a few white lies. A bit of minor deception. Change the odd date here and there just by a single day, nobody will notice.

Who would not take the deal?

If you say “me” you can add “liar” to your list of sins.

Everyone does it, it happens eveyday.

But when “I” do it, it’s just a minor little thing. When “you” do it, you’re a fucking criminal and a deceitful robbing little bastard.

We always justify our actions
And we condemn others

I was initiated in 1970 by Charan. The one quality that stood out to me was that he was very patient answering all the dumb questions night after night, over and over. In that regard he certainly was a saint unlike Prof. Bhatnagar who did not suffer fools lightly. In fact, after one of my dumb questions he called me one. I was shocked but he was right and I did not hold it against him.

I guess Charan had a wrist watch fetish. I've heard other stories.

When he died I was numb. I literally could not feel my feet as I went around fixing the pasture fence.

Then I went to see Gurinder in San Francisco in 1991. There was less human feces on the streets there in those days so walking to the auditorium was no problem. Anyway, seeing Gurinder was a catalyst for my undoing with the RS path. A complete turn off. I eventually woke up to another perspective. Hint: 'Who' would be going to Sach Khand and just where would that be? I no longer believed and phased out over the next few years and never looked back except for coming here once in a while for giggles and grins, although lately its been more like ho hum. The days of the great Churchless participant, tAo, are long gone. Osho and a few others are pretty good.

Now, I don't worry about eggs at all, but I used to worry about the chickens until my son welded a very strong iron mesh enclosure for them. A bobcat was finding them easy pickings. Now, I don't think a bear could get in, but we don't have any of those.


The eye centre.

What is that? The centre of the eyes?

Someone asked Charan.

He says “close Your eyes and you are at the eye center”

The eye centre or the opening of the Shabd is the Sant mat version of heaven.

There is none,

You make a fictional god, create a fictional palace for him then create a fictional way to get there

Then of course you need a fictional guru to get you there.

I admit the books do describe all that nonsense as if it’s real, but ..,..
GSD has said burn the books.

So burn them. And walk away from the teachings

Then you find yourself.
And you are nothing.

You definitely are not perfect


I think PJ2000 is simply givin us a good ole troll....

Kudos to Brian Hines. It seems that ex-RSSB satsangis have far more tolerance for free speech than their brothers in the Kirpal line. This comment about Sant Rajinder Singh has apparently just gotten me banned from the RS Studies Group on Yahoo, moderated by James Bean:

Rajinder Singh's younger brother says that when Rajinder became guru, he had to quit his job in electronics, and so it fell to him (the younger brother Mac Duggal) to support Rajinder and his family.

That was 30 years ago. Now Rajinder lives in a 2 million dollar home, drives a Porsche, put both his children through medical school. And that's just the evidence of Rajinder's wealth that we know about. Did Rajinder's younger brother really pay for all of this?

Or is Rajinder really working at a software firm as a "manager," and is earning a huge paycheck?
The only details given out by Rajinder's religious organization is that Rajinder lives by the code of ethics that his grandfather Kirpal Singh preached about a guru earning his own living. And that Rajinder retired 30 years ago, implying that Rajinder was wealthy enough at that time to never work again.

Something is obviously wrong with this picture. If Mac Duggal was telling the truth about supporting Rajinder and his family because of the time constraints of Rajinder's new role as guru, then how can Rajinder have time to be a manager in a software firm?

Many of Rajinder's sermons touch on the topic of money, advising us to stop being so materialistic and focus on our spiritual lives.
----------------------

Hi tucson, I was also initiated a long time ago, over 50 years. I was in my early 20's and like you just kinda drifted away slowly but surely over the years and although not an atheist, just am a different person to that young insecure, seeking for something more than this. Still stick to the principles except I have some kind of aversion to meditation. Strange.

I also miss tAo. When I first started reading this blog many years ago he had a huge influence on my way of thinking. You also tucson, you sounded almost zen like in your attitude and still do. Now I enjoy the unknowing type thinking, such a relief, to not know the answers, so no expectations, no striving.

@Jen "As Osho says "Gurinder never claimed perfection, even before this incident".

We have covered this again and again. He is indeed claiming perfection because that is the office he has accepted.

@jay
The "earning your money" thing doesn't mean a job. What if someone owns a business?
Maybe Rijindar Singh owned or had a share of the business his brother runs.

I know someone who did a business transaction with Mac Duggal. He wanted a refund and complained to Rijindar but Rijindar took his brothers side. As you would expect

@PJ
Doesn't matter, as he denies perfection as did charan Singh.
Charan refused to take the gaddi.

Only agreed if he was accepted as a sevadar.

Of course disciples think its humility
But are mistaken

Just as people misunderstand gurinder when he says no master comes at death

Hi Osho
You wrote:
"So are you saying you are a good person?
as defined below:
Never lies
Never deceives
Never cheats
Never speeds
Never done any harm to anyone in your whole life - not even an enemy

in fact just look at your own list and tell me that you have never done any of those things"

Sorry Osho, but it appears you did not actually read what I had written:

"And though even a good person makes mistakes, a good person does what they can to make up for those mistakes, and takes responsibility for themselves.
They don't lie / make up fictitious stuff.
They don't deceive trying to cover up loans they haven't repaid.
It's all so simple.

And they don't let other people take the blame for their actions.

A good person does the opposite. They reach out to cover the mistakes other people make.

It's not complicated when you don't have an attachment to someone.

And when you do have an attachment to someone, you should be acting for their welfare, not to enable their addictions to money, power, etc."

I don't think you see how your actions actually enable criminal behavior.

It's not a matter of being perfect. It's a matter of being responsible.

You are suggesting that it isn't normal to be responsible.

But look around you, everyone who raises a family, holds down a job, stops to help when you have a flat tire, is being responsible and decent. When they teach their children not to lie, that's just normal decency.

They aren't perfect, but they aren't stealing hundreds of millions of dollars, Osho.
That isn't normal.

And when normal decent people do make a mistake, they own up to it right away.

You and I have two completely different value systems.

But I suggest that if Gurinder cannot live up to the minimum standards of decency in this very imperfect world, I'm not sure his behavior should be set as the new standard. That would be lowering the bar.

A true Saint raises the bar, and helps us within to have the strength to reach that bar.

But the Chaurasi thing is never stopped..:0(

So..also the need of the Master..

We Satsangi's are the lucky ones..

You are all confused! Anyone who ever claims himself to be a perfect saint is not a saint at all. Read the adi granth!! Read sat Bachan!! GSD has said this for years!!!! You will all be shocked with what is coming and sitting in the blog in shock like Wolf Blitzer on election night 2016!

Baba Gurinder could have stopped the chaurasi idea and perfect living master,”but he did not really.
All my satsangi friends still believe him as gihf.
So when someone say he never said he was perfect??
That does not mean anything,because he still plays the role..

@s*

read the scriptures and they clearly state the facts around karma, circle of life, and the need for a guru!

ilanovitch,

Some years ago after he quit this blog, tAo contacted me and invited me to visit if I was in his area. I haven't been near there yet and I haven't heard from him since. I don't know if he is sick, well or something else.

Jen,
Like you, I find meditation difficult. Always have but I still managed to do it back in the Charan days. I have always been an impatient type and somehow after a few minutes I find myself up and walking to the next thing whether it be the refrigerator or whatever. Sometimes I find myself sitting in what could be called a meditative state. Then, all of a sudden, I'm back at the frig again. Even so, I'm not fat.

I gave up the vegetarian thing more than 20 years ago after many years on the veg diet. I found that my body performed better with more animal protein and less grain. In my case this change resulted in about a subjective 10% gain in physical capability and overall health. Humans are omnivores and can adapt to many different types of foods and dietary theories.

My current diet theory is don't eat too much. Being hungry is good.. up to a point of course.

@*s
Friends of me attended 3 days of Bandara last Weekend in Delhi

He said HE ( Gurinder) was never SO Awesome and powerfull
and lovely
How come there are only 3 photos of him
with 10 000 more iphones around
compared with our lovely Princess Daina ?

I m also curious what tomorrow will give

TMHO, besst is RSSB to buy
all companies and shares involved and we just forget
the brothers

These extreme left ANTIFA like folks will do anything to bring him down. I relate Brian to Wolf Blitzer...always crying about Trump....Brian is always crying about GSD. Its amazing after all of their years on any path that they have not learned a drop of what the Gurbani says or other scriptures say. They will burn anyone at the stake and Brian has been trying for the longest time. Yet when GSD visits any center all of the seats are filled and ever expanding........Brian's wife brainwashed him. She wanted nothing to do with the PATH so what did he do....he went after the cat.

What do they say to my family members who have experienced the radiant form??? Who would answer questions of my family members! My grandfather would sit for 5 hours at a time! These are all the doings of the mind.

GSD will get all of this sorted just stay tuned for his side of the story. BNN (Brian News Network) will fail just like CNN is failing today.

pj2000, how do you account for all the stories in the Indian financial press about the RSSB guru's financial dealings? Are they "fake news" also? Almost always my recent blog posts about Gurinder Singh have been written after someone emails me a new story that mentions him.

Those reporters don't have anything to do with RSSB. They're just writing about the facts as they know them. So if anyone is out to bring the guru down, and I'm not saying they're doing this, it would be the Indian financial press.

Don't blame the messengers for a disturbing message. Blame the person who did the disturbing things. In this case, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, his family, and close associates. That's a fact, not fake news.

Hi Brian!
I don't know how you do it!
pj2000 is visibly hurt, and I fully understand.
But he's taking it out on you.

Facts are terrible things. They are monsters.
But ignorance is the bigger and more horrifying monster, when we see what people do acting on it.

Please keep up the work. This is a crucial time. You are like Radio Free Europe during WWII.

Spence, you're right. It's amazing how much power a retired guy in Salem, Oregon has over a guru with several million followers. I'm not sure what pj2000 meant about the cat reference. We don't even have a cat, though our dog would love to have one. Briefly, before she did unspeakable canine things to it. I do like the Radio Free Europe image. Thanks for sharing it.

@ Spencer - Radio Free Europe! Behave man!

I keep telling you this but you keep talking about facts and more facts . Nothing happens to GSD.

Just watch and see. But you know this already as you go within and talk to him. So no need to to convince you really.

"Gurinder never claimed perfection, even before this incident".

PJ says: "We have covered this again and again. He is indeed claiming perfection because that is the office he has accepted."

If people project 'perfection' onto another thats their own fault. When they realise that they were wrong in putting someone on a pedestal why don't they just take responsibility and accept that they were wrong. Because they can't handle realising that they feel stupid. Wake up, realise that the 'emperor wears no clothes' and people see what they want to see.

Don't believe anyone, is my motto, find your own truth and whatever makes you happy, 'nothing' matters really, because this little insignificant life is very short.


Please keep up the work. This is a crucial time. You are like Radio Free Europe during WWII

Hello Spence,

No diminution of Brian's efforts but a comparison to "Radio Free
Europe" is a bit grandiose. What risk to life and limb and property
(including family and friends) exists... We can safely assume there
won't be any death threats from Indian attorneys either.

Of course, there may be a few tongue lashings on CofC from the
die-hard faithful. Arguably there should be medal or two for
enduring those though :)

It's worthy, insightful reporting and an important counter balance
to blind religiosity. But, the bulk of the credit should be to the Indian
press who researched the issues and ran the stories. Just sayin'

@Arjuna i have been reading what u write in a number of blogs . I am confused . You sometimes affiliate with pros and sometimes cons of rssb .
@osho - sorry but your concept is a common perception and yet it is a very screwed up one . You are right people are not perfect and somewhere everyone have selfish motives . But there is a right and wrong . And there is a concept on where you can be selfish and where you cant be . Its plain and simple . The concept that everyone is commiting wrong deeds and escaping from the punishment whenever they possible can and its okay if someone is doing it , its a concept that will make every act justified .
The world works harmonously because there are rules , regulations , right and wrong . People do break them and escape scotfree but it does not make it right and getting used to it and declaring it as a universal truth will make this world a havoc . May be that is the problem today . Wrong is just not wrong anymore . If we cannot be always right , atleast we can call what we are doing wrong or if not to ourselves to others and someone else will point it out when we are wrong . Atleast the wrong is being called out if not by the person wrong themself atleast by someone to that person .
PS: my comment has nothing to do rssb or this money thingy . Its just a comment on oshos concept .

@Arjuna : i meant to write number of articles in this very blog .

Arjuna wrote: "I keep telling you this but you keep talking about facts and more facts . Nothing happens to GSD."

Yes, nothing happens to GSD despite facts. His followers, for the most part, are still devoted and he is not in jail.

Then we have the case of Trump where there are no facts regarding criminality or illegal collusion with Russians or other alleged/rumored misdeeds and yet half the country hates his guts* and want him impeached yesterday.

Odd Matrix we are living in.

*Hating someone's guts is a special kind of hate. It means you hate their very soul, their inner being, what makes them who they are as it emanates from the core of that being.

@sk
Some good points.
You say there is an actual right and wrong. You also say people are selfish sometimes.

So is eating meat wrong?

Is driving at 70 in a 60 zone wrong?

Is cheating on your taxes wrong?

Is cheating on your spouse wrong?

Is pretending to be sick to take a day off work wrong?

Is downloading music or a movie without paying wrong?

Is telling a lie wrong?

Is it wrong to comment on this blog when gurinder has specifically said not to. Obviously applies only to followers.

Is it wrong to miss meditation.

Is it wrong to judge others.

And the second part.

Have you ever done any of those wrong things?

And if you have, did you come clean, or did you justify your actions.

Think about this for a while. Maybe write some incidents down.
Then reply.
If you are honest you will realize just how devious humans are.


*Hating someone's guts is a special kind of hate. It means you hate their very soul, their inner being, what makes them who they are as it emanates from the core of that being.

Not the whole soul... just the part that lies and cheats 90% of
the time :)

@ilanovitch This is no proof of divinity though. Some people are just very, very charismatic. If a Hollywood actor wanted to convince you they were a Guru, they could do it. Rock stars deliver magical experiences to their audiences, revered as modern-day gods, yet most are degenerates who just have a god-given talent that they have worked on.

Perhaps it is the energy of the Satsangis themselves that is creating this atmosphere? That's a question because I'm not saying either way, just that being charismatic and uplifting has no relation to someone's spiritual status.

@osho i personally cheated on my partner ( not marriage just relationship) and came clean after a week because just couldnt take it on my conscience . Had to beg, make a lot of amends , heard a lot of abuses and so on emotional torture but stood by it because i was wrong . Yes i have lied ,done a lot of things you have mentioned . But thats what my point was some things should not be okay when done . And we as humans sshould be able to distinguish where we need to accept and make amends and where its okay to just be . Like little lies are cool , like faking a head ache to acoid going somewhere but faking a disease to get money as sympathy is wrong .
Think about it if we just accept the monstors in us and not tame it , what will this place be . We all have capabilities to be as bad as possible and as good as good can be . It just depends on the standards we keep . Not making it okay for wrong to happen . We will never be perfect but we can be decent .

ilanovitch,

by HIS grace, I did attend the 3 days discourse on the last weekend in Delhi, and it was simply amazing.

HE appeared on stage in HIS majestic grandeur.
HIS voice fills you with a plethora of spiritual vibrations.
The whole premise was full of electrifying environment.

I congratulate those who were able to attend.

The fake discussions above in the comments have zero gravity,
specially for those who are able to attend HIS discourse and receive inexplicable spiritual bliss.

ilanovitch, you speak nonsense when you say it isn't a "normal human endeavor" for the RSSB guru to give talks a few days a month to many thousands of people. President Donald Trump does that, and he's having to deal with more investigations into him by legal authorities and Congress than Gurinder Singh Dhillon is.

I can't believe that being the guru of RSSB is a bigger job than being president of the United States. Recently Trump talked for 2 hours and 20 minutes to a conservative convention. The crowd applauded and cheered, loving his charismatic presence (for Trump lovers, at least; I detest Trump).

I didn't hear anyone being amazed at Trump for being able to do that while he also deals with other matters. You're putting the RSSB guru on a pedestal he doesn't deserve.

ilanovitch,

I think PJ above at 9:34am is exactly right.

I was at some of those bhandaras of 500K strong back in the 70's and 80's. The enchantment is a sort of mass hypnotism/group think. Some people would actually faint or collapse. It was very impressive, the vast shade canopys and all. The immaculately turbaned holy figure in sparkling white prominently positioned on the elevated white dais as the huge crowd sang and chanted. This has got to be the real deal. Right?

I watched Charan bless a roomful of tens of thousands of chapatis to feed the masses along with rows of massive vats of dahl. Huge stacks of tin plates. Remarkable.

But the downside was equally palpable. Clouds of dust polluting the air from the multitudes moving en masse. It settled on everything. We stayed in our room with the windows closed as the throngs milled about. It was oppressive and claustrophobic. The stench of raw sewage running deep through the gutters. Litter on the streets the sweepers struggled to keep up with. I was glad it was over despite being a true believer. I mean, 500,000 couldn't possibly be deluded, could they?

Many millions voting for Hillary and nearly as many voting for Trump. Each group thinking the others were fools.

What a world. What a Matrix.

I can't believe I'm getting into this.

I doubt Trump could sit in a semi lotus position with his back straight for much more than a few minutes, if at all. Perhaps because he is not an Indian, but I have seen him deliver a clear two hour dialogue with focused attention to millions while attending to managerial and administrative functions of a vast country and feeding a multitude (food stamps, armed services). You think Charan didn't have help?

I'm sure millions wish Trump would lie down and withdraw his life forces, die and preferably leave the country in the wise and capable hands of AOC. We're dead in 12 years if we don't, you know. Like fucking extinct.

ilanovitch, I agree with you entirely when you say, " It's all in your perspective tucson, you can view it any which way your mind and conditions attune your argument or thinking."

We're on the same page after all.

@ilanovitch Don't be naive. A billionaire could easily do that:

If someone has a personal nutritionist, cook, and a doctor to give them test, GH, and vitamin shots. And then a ready supply of an adrenal stim like ephedrine or caffeine, or in Trump's case Cocaine, anything can be done.

You have much to learn.

"When crime succeeds
It is called virtue."
Seneca

."The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster was an energy accident at the Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant in Ōkuma, Fukushima Prefecture, initiated primarily by the tsunami following the Tōhoku earthquake on 11 March 2011." Wikipedia

One could very well argue that its an insult to, if not a crime against humanity that this company still exists today. The monetary costs of Fukushima are irrelevant.

In honor of a friend who loves him, their friend keeps their doubts to themselves...
In respect for a father who loves him, the son goes to the rallies, pays their party dues and remains silent...
In respect for a Director who adores him, though they think he is just an actor, the workers put their few coin in the basket, paste the banners up through all the town, and even in their own windows, wear the armbands, and in time, gradually, begin to feel a little pride that they are members. A little special...

And his rousing speech begins to rouse them too. They begin to see an agent of God and destiny standing on the podium, speaking the words of the divine.

Deutschland, Deutschland, you are above all. And this third reich shall never end!

And on Krystal Nacht, they are anxious to show their love for their Charismatic and beloved leader.

"Trading in the financial markets is stimulating, exciting and engrossing. But you can become addicted, just like with actual casino gambling or using illicit drugs. Like any severe addiction, trading addiction can cost you your job, relationships and, of course, your financial resources. In this article we will talk about what causes trading addiction, the symptoms and how to break out of the downward spiral. The problem focuses on the brain and understanding how its reward systems can literally train you to trade compulsively and dangerously."

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/071713/downward-spiral-trading-addiction.asp


" Addiction can also be a source of terrible shame, self-hatred, and low self-worth. For an addict, it can be terrifying to acknowledge the harm one has done by one’s addiction to oneself and potentially to others one cares for. When they are high, their fears of inadequacy and unworthiness fade away. Users often report a sudden dissociation from self. For example, alcohol and heroin are often sought for their numbness.

"Admitting the negative consequences requires one to end the behavior causing these consequences. But the quitting itself will bring pain and distress. Denial, therefore, protects a person against this negative experience by denying the reality of one’s situation, when doing so would cause such psychological pain and distress.

There is also evidence suggesting that addicts lack the knowledge about the negative consequences not out of denial, but because of impairment in insight and self-awareness (Naqvi et al., 2007). Chronic drug abuse has been recognized to be associated with impaired self-awareness (dysfunction of the insular cortex), which manifests as denial of the severity of addiction and the need for treatment. For example, only a small fraction of heavy drinkers admit they have a drinking problem. This is a reason why some people keep drinking even as they realize that the habit is destroying their lives."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/science-choice/201811/the-role-denial-in-addiction%3famp


And his rousing speech begins to rouse them too. They begin to see an agent of God and destiny standing on the podium, speaking the words of the divine.

Point taken.

And his rousing speech begins to rouse them too. They begin to see an agent of God and destiny standing on the podium, speaking the words of the divine.
You should definitely watch last week's Bill Maher's New Rule (about religious people comparing Donald Trump to King Cyrus): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQBIBjbpzoQ
So pertinent to the "agent of God" thing!

"... But they don't care. You see that's religion for you. The more it doesn't make sense, the better because it proves your faith" ... "You know they also, get this, believe it's significant that the chapter in the Bible that mentioned Cyrus is Isaiah 45 and Trump is the 45th president. You can't argue with science, people". Haha. So true. :)

The Supreme Court of India says the Singh brothers should pay their debts....
"The court, then referring to the foreign tribunal award in the favour of Daiichi, told Singh brothers: "It is not just about Rs 4000 Crore or individual honour It is a question of honour for the country. It doesn't do good for the country. You were once the flag- bearers of this country. Pay your debts and come out of this."

https://www.news18.com/news/business/since-you-arent-a-sadhu-anymore-start-thinking-about-money-sc-tells-former-fortis-promoter-2066259.html


And what about Baba Ji's debts?
What about Shabnam's debts?
What about all the hundreds of millions in Dhillon family debts, and the fraud they engaged in to escape payment?

Will it take another order from the Supreme Court of India 's Chief Justice before Baba Ji takes even the responsibility every parent teaches their own child?

Who raised these people to become frauds?

The sin of greed can pull down even the noblest.

Ilanovitch,
Every decent human being makes every effort to take responsibility for themselves.

It isn't complicated.

Boing has to fix their error. And they are doing everthing they can to do so. That effort is honorable.
Why should Gurinder be treated any differently?

You must learn to separate the Gurinder you love, who is a part of you, from this actor, who must play a role.

And we must honor that role that He Himself is playing, not in denial but in honest acknowledgement.

If He chooses to be a thief, it's is only to test your commitment to Truth and ultimately the justice necessary to protect the innocent.

If the Supreme Court of India must remind Shivindar of his basic responsibility as a human being, what then of the mentor who taught him to run from duty, hiding behind the skirt of a false and fraudulent spirituality?

We're in a fix, aren't we ilanovitch. It appears we really know nothing for sure...not even that.

I posted it another thread... looks like SEBI has another order in place, this time based on Religare businesses (previous findings were re: Fortis' missing ₹473 crore, which is likely to be revised to >₹2,000 crore):
Sebi finds diversion of ₹2,315 crore from two Religare firms to Singh brothers.
https://www.livemint.com/companies/news/sebi-finds-diversion-of-2-315-crore-from-two-religare-firms-to-singh-brothers-1552577351236.html

"The Securities and Exchange Board of India, or Sebi, in an order passed on Thursday found that funds to the tune of ₹2,315 crore were diverted from the books of Religare Finvest Ltd and Religare Enterprises Ltd towards the benefit of erstwhile promoters namely Shivinder and Malvinder Singh.
...
The 24-page order highlighted the role of 21 entities or companies that have been used in the alleged routing of these funds. Some of these companies at the centre are interestingly the ones that were involved in ₹473 crore of fund diversion from Fortis Hospitals, according to Sebi order in December.
...
The recorded recipients of funds were merely a facade for REL’s promoters and their agents," said Mahalingam citing the allegation against the companies."

EconomicTimes writes: "The markets regulator ordered REL and RFL to initiate steps to recall all the loans extended either directly or directly [sic] to 22 entities including OSPL Infradeal, Bharat Road Network, Shivi Holdings, Malav Holdings, Malvinder Singh and Shivinder Singh, along with due interest, within three months.
...
In an order on Thursday, Sebi said that REL, RFL and seven other entities had indulged in diversion of funds to the tune of around Rs 2,315 crore from RFL for the ultimate benefit of the promoters and their related entities, in a fraudulent manner. “A detailed investigation of the fund diversion in this case is necessary to find out the role of each entity in the alleged routing of funds,” Sebi said in its order.
...
In order to find the ultimate utilisation of funds of RFL, the entire transactions in the bank accounts of the companies and the promoter/ promoter connected entities needed to be examined in detail from FY2008-09 to FY2017-18, Sebi said.

Read more at:
www.economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/68414339.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Here are the 21 entities (from BloombergQuint). Many of the entities are the same as in the Fortis fund diversion. Looks like when the going was good (back in ~2011-2013), they were emboldened to implement/exhibit these schemes/behavior everywhere.
OSPL Infradeal
Bharat Road Network
Platinum Infrastructure
Ad Advertising
Artifice Properties
Best Health Management
Devera Developers
Vitoba Realtors
Fern Healthcare
Modland Wears
Rosestar Marketing
Star Artworks
Tripoli Investment & Trading Co
Volga Management and Consultancy
Zolton Proerties
Religare Comtrade
RHC Holding Ranchem
ANR Securities
Shivi Holdings
Malav Holdings.

Read more at: https://www.bloombergquint.com/law-and-policy/sebi-asks-two-religare-firms-to-recall-loans-worth-rs-2300-crore-from-singh-brothers-21-others#gs.1im6fp

What I found amusing was what Shivinder's affidavit (allegedly) said. From the above story that Spence linked, it's interesting that the judge had to say that "since you aren't a Sadhu anymore, start thinking about money".

When the sparring brothers showed up on Thursday, senior lawyer Fali S Nariman, representing Daiichi, pointed out that while Malvinder claims is trying to pay off all debts, Shivinder says he has become a sadhu.

Interacting with Shivinder, CJI Gogoi said: "You are telling us that you have nothing to do with business anymore and that your brother is looking after it since you have renounced the world. If you have a debt to pay, your renouncing the world wouldn't matter to us." At this, Shivinder's lawyer PS Patwalia submitted: "Mr Shivinder has come back to the world in December 2017."

"Oh! That's good. Now that your lawyer says you've come back to the world, start thinking about money," retorted the CJI.

Looks almost like Bollywood movie dialogues!

Good Evening Mr Spence.

You of late have started using tough words as:

If the Supreme Court of India must remind Shivindar of his basic responsibility as a human being, what then of the mentor who taught him to run from duty, hiding behind the skirt of a false and fraudulent spirituality.


I do not know if the Outer master may pardon you but inner one may be happy with your staunch approach. I may well understand the cacophony of others on this burning issue - which naturally will hit further many more devouts of RSSB and therefore more bitter duels may ensue on this forum. But I expect only Truth and not bitter inferences against the Outer Guru by your kindself who is a projection of inner one and most of us believe so including you.

Now as far as the question of 'sin' by the Holy ghost in His earthly attire is concerned, I think those who believe Him to be Perfect then whatever He does or behave or spells can not ordinarily be compared to us mortals - because what He does must be deliberate attempts to work as per divine plan. We may understand this by a simple analogy:

Say, if Almighty chooses Himself to be a sibling of a pimp in a brothel or is brought up in a Butcher's family then what a character will He hold despite He being the Supreme Being in essence and we may greatly benefit from Him despite the apparent shortcomings in the character He holds on earth.

Likewise if He is grown up with business relatives and thus had to make business decisions at some point of time due to adverse circumstances( as father figure) beyond His control which may even be with lots of selfish intentions (collective of a family) leading to a Fraud kind of situation. Even though it is also a fact such Perfect Masters have ever remained role models for their disciples throughout their lives and have been always better off than their best disciples in their worldly dealings, acts and behaviour. But yes, there has been instances where a Guru has done an extremely indifferent/abnormal thing at a point of time which was in larger good of their disciple/s eventually.

Therefore should we still believe His divine potential. That is the question otherwise such frauds by rich and mighty are a common scene in India/other places and many of them go into compromises in a compromising system or are condoned if not waived off completely.


If I count on believers and disbelievers on this forum they are almost in equal numbers but some of us are swinging both ways simultaneously. And there are also a few of us who are in their extremes to attack ( outer Master) and defend(inner Master)- they are the ones who carry conviction or Truth about the Master.

Rest is our own judgement but without support/grace from inside it may be difficult to counter the logics.

By cacophony I wish to suggest the odd repetitions by the members over some points. Wish it is not taken otherwise... Regards.

Hi Mediator
When you see the Lord in everyone, then the outer behavior is of no consequence on anyone's part. The Lord resides within all.

It is good to see God in Gurinder, and better still to see the Lord in your bitterest critic.

So if you go to Satsang and there before you, you see and feel, filled with awe, that this is a true Saint, consider the only real spirituality is whether this inspires you to find / build that within yourself, and to help others to see that within themselves as well.

As for the personal life of this star, they know best their situation off the dias, and every one of us must go through our own Karma.

If that actor must go to jail, the inner Master is not affected nor any less perfect a source of peace and strength.

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