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March 04, 2019

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Again with another WOW. 😐

Spence succinctly paints such a clear and comprehensive picture of what took place that I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the media outlets picks it up and includes his comment in a future article.

I think a lot of RSSB Satsangis want so desperately for this ongoing disturbing news story to end. And other Satsangis like GSD’s inner circle just want him to find a way to fix it and make it stop.

But as Spence has highlighted, there’s more to this than just money being mfinancial losses.

I’m still really, really, REALLY surprised at the lack of foresight. I guess that’s what happens when you treat a publicly traded company like a small family business.

I swear, my iPhone is trying to make me look really stupid. 😂 Auto correct has been aggressively messing up my texts and emails ever since my last iOS update.

Anyway, I meant to say...

“But as Spence has highlighted, there’s more to this than just money being moved improperly and financial losses.”

I know that GSD’s inner circle and many Satsangis aware of this story (a surprisingly large number are still clueless) are like, “God please make it stop...please... this is hell... I’m plagued with doubts... just make it stop!” 😣😖😫😩

At least, that’s what I imagine they are thinking.

ilanovitch:

Yours is a classic example of denial.

I'm sorry for your disappointment.

Really, I am.. for all believers who put their trust in this "Sat" guru.

@ Tucson
Ditto

“I think denial's fascinating. It's a jokey word, but it really happens, and sometimes in enormous ways.”

~Marian Keyes

ilanovitch, I find it amusing that you couldn't find any factual errors in this summary of the RSSB guru's financial wrongdoing, but you still consider the accusations against him to be untrue.

As others have noted, religious believers like yourself are masters of denial. They refuse to face facts, preferring to remain in the cozy confines of their illusions.

Thank you for commenting on this blog. You remind me of why I'm so proud and pleased to be a reality-loving atheist rather than a closed-minded fundamentalist.

@ilanovitch
It’s not glee. Believe me, I wish it weren’t so. It’s heartbreaking for all involved. It’s disheart for Satsangis who have to watch and it’s just sad to the rest of us.

I don’t “delight” anyone’s demise. Not mine, not GSD’s. Suffering sucks. But it’s important to stay aware.

You seem to be devoted to RSSB if I’m not mistaken. You’re right, no one should take pleasure in the suffering of others, but when something to this degree happens, there are several parties suffering. It wouldn’t be right to blindly follow one and ignore the damages caused to the other party/parties.

This is not a personal criticism of you. It is a very difficult and unpleasant situation affecting hundreds if not thousands of people. And no one should feel gleeful over something like that.

I wish there were a way to edit my comments even after they have been posted... 🧐 (I know, I know, I should hit review and then post the comment...)


so he (Spence) knows how bad it is for the guru and his family to take massive amounts money from Indian healthcare companies with no intention of paying the money back.

Hm, what's the basis for asserting GSD had "no intention of paying
the money back"? As I recall (maybe incorrectly), GSD's notorious
"Family Agreement " concludes with a request that Malva return
properties "to settle accounts".

I'm sure that phrase could be read (and, lest we forget, in addition
to a vile "death threat") as conclusive of GSD's greed and blatant
criminality. But what definitive evidence rules out GSD's intent to
initiate a sell-off of those assets to repay stockholders, i.e, "to settle
accounts"?

I mean, what alleged criminal wouldn't want to appear to be
making a good faith effort to "do the right thing". It's sure to shave
a few years off his sentence. Hey, even hardened criminals can
have a "come to Jesus" moment... (er, make that "come to Guru")

News flash to the liquored up mad dog posse hanging out in
Blogsville: sleep if off and let the sheriff and the courts take it
from here.

@ilanovitch

I respect your opinion. I do not agree but I respect it.

In a previous comment on another post I shared with you a very high level overview of why I felt so “fervently”. But something interesting has happened. Ever since my recent email to Brian where I shared the full details of what occurred and the history of events leading up to it I have slowly begun to let go of the pain and anger.

The reason being, I was able to share the full story of what happened to me with someone who both understood where I was coming from and allowed me to own my feelings without judgement. When I tried to share what happened with a few close members of my family who are not familiar with GSD or RSSB, they reacted with both compassion and confusion. Confusion over why I would follow a guru or join what they deemed to be a “cultish” organization in the first place. And when I talked about the event with my husband and his family their reaction was also compassionate but with an agenda to get me to see the situation differently—they wanted me to try and accept what the Master said as somehow helping me to “pay off my karma”.

In both cases I received a compassionate response but also a certain amount of judgement. In both cases I wasn’t really, in a sense, given the opportunity to “own” my feelings—the intense hurt and disappointment. However, when I was finally able to share this with someone who understands the impact that a “Master” can have on his initiates and understands the history, dynamics and nuances involved in these types of relationships, it felt like I was finally able to connect with an empathetic listener. Brian didn’t tell me how I should feel, he didn’t tell me to try and look at it from another point of view and he didn’t offer a remedy other than true empathy. Finally, I could share my story without receiving any hint of judgement and that allowed me to validate on a deeper level that I had the right to feel the way I did. I had been building up anger over the event ever since it happened as sort of a self-defense mechanism. I believe that deep within my psyche there was a part of me still trying to prove it was OK for me to have those feelings. Anger is a common go to self-defense mechanism for a lot of people. And I’m a “fighter” so to speak, so fighting what I deem to be unfair just comes naturally.

It’s kind of weird. Nothing about the event changed. No remedies were offered, just true empathy and understanding. It goes without saying that if GSD had taken that approach it would have yielded far greater results.

I believe this is why support groups where people have experienced similar things can be so beneficial. You can always find a compassionate listener, but you’re lucky if you can find an empathetic listener.

Spence said'
'If Baba Ji wanted to pull RSSB down into flames, he could not have come up with a better, more extensive plan. So let's do our part and acknowledge the flames so that His will, the erosion of RSSB, proceeds with all due speed'.

Part of me wonders whether GSD has pressed the auto destruct button; either deliberately or not. What better teaching in a way?
Almost as if saying; now i have your attention will you still keep believing untenable dogmas? Maybe he is just sick and tired of the whole role? Krishnamurti dissolved the organisation built up around him in 1929 and disillusioned followers of his non messiah status.
Maybe this is GSD's version, albeit perhaps not intentional? Who knows what is going on.
True orthodox believers are going to be severely tested by this however. Or are they? I think faith's acquired in childhood under pleasant circumstances will be resistant to whatever the outcome here. I think a sex scandal would be more impactive, but finances don't rock people too much, even if fraud and criminality is proven.

@ all. Watch this space - nothing comes out of this. No need to go into detail or try and sound intellectual with quotes.

Nothing happens- shall I repeat that again.

Have a great evening.

@ Mr Brian @ Mr Spence

A very Good evening.

A more clearer autopsy findings of a mega fraud coming finally from Mr Spence while He knows it indicts His dear Guru is a bit daring while he claims to carry Him all along, in awe. He also visits Him daily inside and that makes it more interesting.


A grand omni-paradox in the making with One of his great disciples sticking to the Truth while at the same time one of His most favourite Ex disciples endorsing same with his knowhow from the media and other relevant sources.

And to me none of the above is wrong in its own ways. I give benefit of doubt in case of Guru for I have not the ability to comprehend his ways and grand divine plan. For some it may be extremely wrong and criminal but I shall not defend Him if they think so as with open eyes black is always black and white is white.

Truth Triumphs!

I think if Guru is perfect He should be happy to have either of you as disciples for you have stuck to Truth in trying circumstances even when 'Truth' itself was in question so I believe. It does not matter if one of you have left the path. It is for Him to acknowledge it and accept. If He does not then your leaving has no significance. Your closeness to Him is also decided by your behaviour and attitude to His creation and love of truthful ness.

To me meditation is a means to reveal Him right away and understand and belive in His existence. And say, if He does not gets revealed by ones best efforts it matters but still not a big deal. Sometimes He will. Anyways I am not dead sure about His perfectness but because I believe in his predecessors and owing to some blissful experiences I have had I trust. Lets see how the divine drama unfolds as it involves Omni... (my belief)

Regards

Hi Dungeness:

Baba Ji's letter to Malvinder is a little specious and depending upon Malvinder's testimony may not provide a fully valid context.

Malvinder's context is that Baba Ji is handing the liability for all these unpaid loans to Malvinder and Shivinder in exchange for some other form of payment. Malvinder claims he had promised, perhaps upon his potential death from cancer, to give to Shivander the Guruship.

We have an accusor with a vested interest. But it is really is for Baba Ji to come to his own defense, or others in the matter. And then for a court to decide culpability.

The fraud is already fact, and the letter, if it really did come from Baba Ji, is evidence that Baba Ji had no intention to repay anyone and expected others, in trade for something, to assume all the liability. In secret.

If it smells like a dead fish, and looks like a dead fish, it might be a very new form of tofu. But unlikely.

I wouldn't worry about it, though Dungeness. You don't need to make any excuses for Baba Ji.

This is his doing. Well planned, well played. And it's his purpose.

Your job, and the job of all who love Truth, is not to allow your ethics and morality, finely tuned by meditation, to be corrupted by emotional attachments and justifications. This is that mighty storm that will blow away the weak but enflame the strong.

Real love of Baba Ji and real love of Truth and Right action cannot be two separate things. They must and are one thing. No justifications.

You know right from wrong. Stay strong with that. Don't let emotion cloud that intellect and clear heart. Pretend, if you like, this is just some other Guru. See it objectively. Then you are doing Master's work.


@ mediator - Spencer’s inner guru is but a projection of his mind or a powerful entity has him. A very menacing one.

It disgusted me to hear that he wants RSSB destroyed. It’s not a plan by the divine but the evil in their minds .

Spencer’s argues that Brian is doing maharaji’s work. What a crock of dog poo.

Surely would not maharaj ji choose Brian to take on the following to make that world a better place for the poor and exploited. Interesting that the divine has chosen Brian to take on the path he left it got booted out off. What to do God’s work - start with these first and then family or corporate fraud.

Drug barrens
Underworld Gangsters
Corrupt politicians
Corrupt Pharmaceutical companies
Racketeering
Sharks or loan collectors who prey on the weak.
Bullies
Big Tech
Media people who exploit the truth

Want me to go on??? I have got nothing against Brian - he is merely doing his own work for whatever end he has chosen.

Peace out


First there was Sheena, then Sarah and now Sonya.

Their stories are similar, that they seemed to have quite a close and friendly relationship with Gurinder. Quite strange really, compared to most of the satsangis experiences with the guru where he is quite remote and we are lucky to have even a short interview with him.

Maybe this is why they had this sense of being very special and then realised that they are just like the rest of us, hence their anger and frustration.

Its difficult to understand the reactions these women have, its almost like "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned". Why so angry and upset. When I saw through the veil of deception I simply left Sant Mat without any kind of anger or revengeful attitude, after all its my own fault for being gullible and falling for the magical idea that I was one of the chosen ones who will be saved from rebirth.

Why not just take responsibility for one's own actions and beliefs. Why the whinging and carrying on like some pathetic child who didn't get their own way.

@ Jen - well spotted!

@All

RSSB.org does a quote of the day every day as you probably know. So here’s their quote of the day for today:

"If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn’t part of ourselves doesn’t disturb us."
— Hermann Hesse —

So I guess this applies to all of us some of the time.

And, Jen, you have no idea what happened last December. Everyone was horrified. It’s not about wanting special treatment. What happened was extreme—he was just so bitter and angry. It was truly bizarre.

I’m very excited tired of being attacked about having been attacked...

Also, GSD has several favorites (not me) who he spends lots of time with outside of the meetings at their homes—men and women, together and alone.


You don't - neither one of you - not Brian Tucson Sonya Spence and the rest of the sideshow hosts - have the vaguest foggiest clue as to what is ACTUALLY going down.

Hi ilanovitch, as they say in the military, I must (sheepishly) fall in
behind those who don't have the "foggiest clue". But, I think we
could all use some self-examination as we march boldly ahead :)

Hi Sonya,

You say, "And, Jen, you have no idea what happened last December. Everyone was horrified. It’s not about wanting special treatment. What happened was extreme—he was just so bitter and angry. It was truly bizarre."

People were horrified. Maybe, it will take time, but some will eventually realise that they are projecting their own inner power onto this man, who is not perfect, just another human being with suffering the same as any other. He will also be judged if he is doing wrong and will suffer the karmic consequences.

My reaction would be to feel sorry for him. What a tremendous burden he is carrying, my heart goes out him, like I've said before he is just playing the role he has been given. We are all capable of compassion, I think its probably the most important human emotion available to us.

Also, if I am being too naive, what does it matter in the scheme of things, better to be kind than angry and upset.

"No need for temples. No need for complicated philosophy. Your own mind, your own heart, is the temple; and your philosophy is kindness." —His Holiness the Dalai Lama


I wouldn't worry about it, though Dungeness. You don't need to make any excuses for Baba Ji.

Hi Spence,

Thanks, your insights on GSD's "Family Agreement" may be
spot on. I'm glad you expressed a sliver of doubt about
its authenticity too. There needs to be a counter-balance.


Your job, and the job of all who love Truth, is not to allow your ethics and morality, finely tuned by meditation, to be corrupted by emotional attachments and justifications.

Yes, thank you. Brian has done well to expose that corruption.
But, with our imperfection, that same singularity of purpose
easily becomes overreach. I think it clearly has here.

Too many comments reveal abandonment of comment sense,
There's a rush to judgment. A conflation of allegation with fact.
A leap to conclusion. A scant regard for the careful, measured
rule of law.

This is the stuff of "Kangaroo Courts". It's fueled by the same
hidden emotions that are such a tell when you spot any "true
believer".


Real love of Baba Ji and real love of Truth and Right action cannot be two separate things. They must and are one thing. No justifications.

"Right action" has to apply to everyone. Even the reformers.


You know right from wrong. Stay strong with that. Don't let emotion cloud that intellect and clear heart. Pretend, if you like, this is just some other Guru. See it objectively. Then you are doing Master's work.

Good advice.

For the record, I don’t hate Gurinder. I used to love him very much. Now I just can’t get him out of my head... and it’s really starting to annoy me.

So... I think I mentioned this before, I’m reading Hyperbole and a Half by Allie Brosh. It’s the story of Allie’s life but it’s also the story of my life. It is the funniest book about “unfortunate situations, flawed coping mechanisms, mayhem and other things that happened”.

It’s about all sorts of annoying and weird stuff... even a good section thrown in about depression. It covers all the crazy shit that actually goes on inside our minds that we never really analyze or won’t admit to, and yet with all that it still leaves you feeling really good.

I’m just sharing this because all these posts are getting on my nerves today and normally I enjoy what everyone has to say...

Yes, I’m sure it’s just me... 🙄 (ilanovitch, DO NOT agree).

Just had a thought—are GIHFs not allowed to apologize because they’re supposed to be perfect and apologizing would make us question their perfection? 🤔

Till tomorrow... will be reading 😘


ilanovitch wrote:

""Disappointment" ? Tucson - seriously? Disappointed in What exactly?
You're totally misapprehended with what's going down, as are the rest of this "hang em high" posse of ill content."

-- What do you think is really going down?

@Jen

I just needed come back and say thanks for your input. I know your advise was meant with good intentions. Yes, feel sorry for him too...

Hi Sonya

You wrote
"Just had a thought—are GIHFs not allowed to apologize because they’re supposed to be perfect and apologizing would make us question their perfection? 🤔"

An apology is a precious as good criticism.
And to give and accept an apology without hesitation,
instantly without condition, with the full sincerity and effort to make amends, or to continue if nothing had happened...
Is the hallmark of what it means to be an adult. And reflects the wealth of a true King or Queen.

"I am responsible for this," with a willingness to spend one 's life happily making up for it....

And "It never happened, I'm with you all the way" with a loving embrace given freely and frequently...

I believe a true Saint is the first to do both. If there is such a thing as spiritual wealth, this is the only true proof of it.

When Baba Ji says, "I apologize. This was wrong. I'll spend my life working to make up for it"...
Then we will know he is truly saintly.

And when Satsangis say, "Thank you Baba Ji for being truthful. But to me, it never happened. Let us all work together to clean this up."

Then you will have a real Friend and a real Sangat.

You all miss the obvious.

Gurinder is not a thief or a robber. There is no arrest warrant out for him

Guess why?

He was given the money.

The people who gave it need to explain why they gave it.

If the people who gave it can show they acted in the best interest of the shareholders then its fine. If not then they are in trouble.

Not gurinder.

Spence you appear to have a Christian background and believe in sant mat principles.

But Jesus said "judge not"
How come you judge so much?

Are you without sin that you cast the first stone?

You are a Osho robbins do you get paid to do all these videos or you are trying to help humanity so that they can enjoy life rather than following principles? if you say one thing and do another

Jesus said don't judge or condemn anyone because you are not without sin.

Spencer you judge as if you are the appointed judge. You say gurinder should be behind bars.

What gives you the right to judge?

He used to be your guru now you hate him?

Why are you so against him?

Hi Gurinder is my Guru :

I don't think you have read what I wrote precisely.
Fraud has been established by two separate audits sponsored by Fortis' board and a separate review by the Securities and Exchange Board of India.

The courts must determine culpability.

But Baba Ji placed the Singh brothers in their Fortis positions when the company was formed by his investment company, Religare Holdings.

Baba Ji took the loans and never repaid them.

As for judging, I agree shouldn't judge people for having their own beliefs or style of living.

But if someone is doing something harmful or dishonorable or dishonest and it effects other people, we should help them rehabilitate.

That's where sincere apology and sincere forgiveness go hand in hand.

If Baba Ji were to say "This is my responsibility and I will spend the rest of my days doing whatever I can to make up for it," then you may count me first in line to say "It never happened, Brother. Let me help pay what I can of your burden."

That's what Christ meant. Not to turn away when harm is being done. That isn't love.

Christ told the woman caught in adultery, "go and sin no more."

And he told his own followers “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt loses its taste with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer food for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. Just so, your light must shine before others that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.” (Mt 5:13-16)

If we lose our ability to see right from wrong, to live for the Truth and use our voice to acknowledge wrong doing, we are not good for anything.

What is the point of meditation if you lose your ability to see the truth? To know the difference between right and wrong? We become worthless to God, and only worthy to be trampled upon like the dirt under our feet.

When harm is being done, it is our duty to intervene.

It works like this G is my G

Apology "I'm sorry I didn't repay those loans. I'm sorry I demolished the v charitable hospital and sold the land for my own profit.
And I'm sorry for the damage all this has caused. This is my responsibility, and I'll do everything I can to fix it."

Forgiveness "No problem. Let me help you with that."

Is that so difficult to understand?

This is basic humanity 101

Hi Spence,

Really appreciate your comment. Beautifully written. I’ve noticed your comments always seem to maintain a consistent, good natured, level headedness. Can’t say the same for mine but it’s always nice to have someone like you around.

:-)

@Arjuna
Hi.
Good Evening.

Concerning Mr Spencer's interest I think he is bent upon putting the truth and only truth out in open without a bias for a character in this world theatre who he regards as Divine Doer in action subtly as per some divine plan. That is his personal hardcore experience which you or I may not contest for you or even I can only safely assume it to be his cranial malfunction displaying the same (alleged) Grand Fraudster on his screen may be on daily basis in meditation.

Your take of the whole financial fiasco which is distasteful to many of us:
Surely would not maharaj ji choose Brian to take on the following to make that world a better place for the poor and exploited. Interesting that the divine has chosen Brian to take on the path he left it got booted out off. What to do God’s work - start with these first and then family or corporate fraud.

In fact this is the crux of our dilemma. What is expected of us in rightful manner as a devout of RSSB - charity to the hilt, love without bounds, money- a mere rub of our hands, etc seem surreptitiously given a go completely while even poor and not so wealthy satsangis who were regulars in weekend satsangs at Beas and other places were obviously fed upon the opposite so as to be worthy of His grace and love. Here, I beg to differ with Mr. Spencer because it has been the same He whether inside or outside, who has ben propounding the sanity in character and intentions with honesty and to who I owe much of the good in me.

Pray that if He is perfect He will understand us and will give us a solution - stability of mind and spirit whether from inside or outside it is upto His grace.

@ mediator- hello

Reading your response - brought me some peace. Thank you.

Regards

Arjuna

Arjuna, what are you constantly seeking peace from others? Why don't you just leave this blog and get back to your meditation and find the truth? Definitely here you won't get any as per your current understanding. So don't seek for people who align with your thinking and bash others who do not. Grow up. This is to all the defenders, stop defending if you know it's the truth. Be quiet.

@ seeker!!!

What are you a seeker off?

Arjuna,
Well I am a seeker of the truth, same like David & Brian, but I have come to realise that these spiritual gurus are just ordinary human beings; you can think of them like teachers, the ones you find in school/colleges. It's just that instead of them teaching physics/chemistry they teach spirituality, and we people put them on a pedestal and treat them like Gods and get exploited in return. I mean look at Ram Rahim, a sexual offender but still so many educated morons are still following him, his followers trend him on twitter every now and then in India.

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