On living an atheist life: nothing special, not feeling alone

As I've done in previous posts, here's an email interchange I had recently with someone who visits this blog regularly and likes to share ideas with me. 

I WROTE:

Yes, giving up the feeling of being special is indeed a relief. As you’re probably aware, I’ve written about this from the perspective of index investing. Trying to beat the markets both takes a lot of work and has been proven to usually be a waste of time, since investors typically buy high and sell low, rather than the reverse.

Likewise, so is believing that you can beat the God market. As I’m sure I’ve noted before, now I simply say, “God, if you exist, it’s up to you to show yourself to me, since there are so many ways people have used to find you, they can’t all be correct.”

 

Even if it can be argued that God likes all of these ways, seemingly God also would like my attitude of “I want to know you, but it’s your job to make the connection.”

 

To me this is much more logical and scientific than picking one way to know God, which statistically speaking is almost certain to be wrong. So I just sit in as much inward silence as my meditation allows, and wait for God to show up. So far, nothing. Unless God is that nothing, in which case I’m decidedly enlightened.

 

THE OTHER PERSON REPLIED:

Hi Brian, thanks for writing.  I really like that last paragraph.  “Unless God is that nothing, in which case I’m decidedly enlightened”.  Awesome.  

I really enjoyed the post, Here’s a positive sign of my (mini) enlightenment.

And I can totally relate to much of it.

This part really got me thinking:

“But now I've come to feel something different, and seemingly more attainable. I simply want to be as fully aware as possible of whatever it is I'm doing until I take my last breath. What that whatever is doesn't matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things.”

Good stuff! 

I was thinking about something sort of similar recently.  I was listening to someone talk about things they want to do before they die.  Like the bucket list you mentioned.  This person happened to be a Christian, so the list consisted of things they believed God wanted them to do, and some of their own desires. 

Funny how those are separate.  And they felt like if they didn’t accomplish the God stuff, they wouldn’t get their full reward and all that.  Sounds exhausting!  But I get it.  I used to think the same way. 

I’ve noticed that, after practicing mindfulness to varying degrees for the last few years, that I don’t really have a list of things I want to do, anymore.  I’m mostly content to live day to day.  That doesn’t mean that I don’t have a few things I’d like to do in the near future, but they aren’t things that are on an important list. 

Even if I did have a list of cool stuff, and was able to do most or all of them, the memories and emotions tend to fade pretty quickly.  Especially when living mindfully.  I was kind of laughing thinking that when we die, assuming there is nothing after all this, we won’t remember any of the cool stuff because… well, we will be dead.  LOL 

And if there is some kind of afterlife that’s anything like what people think, it will probably be cooler than the cool stuff we did here, so the stuff we did here will pale in comparison. 

I don’t know if this sounds nihilistic or not, but I don’t think of it that way.  It doesn’t mean that I don’t plan fun activities.  Like this summer, my wife and I will celebrate 25 years of marriage and we will go to Florida for a week.  I’m sure it will be great.  But I’m not driven to cram in as much stuff into my life as I can before I die.  It just seems more relaxing that way.

I’ve noticed something interesting going on with me.  I don’t have any atheist friends.  And I only have a couple of friends who would probably be considered agnostic.  I’m finding myself feeling, I guess lonely, for lack of a better word.  I know for a fact that is why many people go to church.  It’s part of their social life. 

Christianity is so prevalent in this part of the country that it permeates everything.  So it kind of changes how people view the world and life.  I know my views on most things have changed drastically since I left religion behind. 

I was meditating with a Buddhist friend on Sunday mornings for a while and we had some really good conversations after our meditation time.  But we stopped meditating because his schedule changed.  I didn’t realize how much I enjoyed being able to talk to someone about my current views without judgment until recently. 

So I find myself reading blogs and listening to podcasts.  Not really to learn something new, but I guess it’s that human need to hear other people say things similar to what I believe.  It’s interesting to hear people talk about going from a religious life to an atheist life.  Lots of similarities in their stories.  I guess that kind of makes me feel not as alone as well.

I hope you and yours are well.

Talk to you again soon.

Comments

[tucson]

YOU say: "So I just sit in as much inward silence as my meditation allows, and wait for God to show up.
God, if you exist, it’s up to you to show yourself to me, since there are so many ways people have used to find you, they can’t all be correct.”

**I'm just reiterating what Buddhists have been saying for centuries. I have been saying the same thing on this blog for years and years. Nothing original about it, but I'll say it again..

God doesn't show up because it is what is looking.

If you ever see God, beat him with a pvc pipe, because it is an imposter. Anything objective is not real. God is not a thing. It might help not to think of yourself as an atheist. Don't think of yourself as anything at all.

By now, after hearing and reading this stuff for years and years this must seem to be cliche', unsatisfying and meaningless. You want more. Something tangible. It's frustrating all this trying to no avail.

Kwai Chang Cain in the old TV series was asked, "What do you do".

Cain shrugs his shoulders, "I live".

YOU say: "seemingly God also would like my attitude of “I want to know you, but it’s your job to make the connection.”

**It's not that God is being difficult, it's just that here is no connection to make. There is nothing separate to be known. Who is there to know it? What you think you are is just memories. There is just a sparkling* in this very instant as a non-thing.

*Everyone is probably tired of the commonly used phrase for this.."radiance".

YOU say: "And if there is some kind of afterlife that’s anything like what people think, it will probably be cooler than the cool stuff we did here, so the stuff we did here will pale in comparison. "

-- This is the afterlife and the forelife. There is always just this.

You could say that at death you enter the undifferentiated state without dualistic relativity, as the Entirety. As that you may remain or continue manifesting as this and that, in some cases struggling to find out what is being discussed here. Or, as something else.

Eternity moves
Space becomes
Time appears
Dualism appears
The universe appears
You identify as a relative object in manifestation.

Eternity rests
Space disappears
Time is no more
Dualism is no more
There are no objects
The universe disappears
You are but there is no you

Above I paraphrased Wei Wu Wei

Whatever can be said has been said before.

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Brian : "So I just sit in as much inward silence as my meditation allows, and wait for God to show up."

That's kind of poignant. I can empathize.

In a way, this is like being in love. Of course, if your beloved returns your love, then that's the end to it. Again, if she doesn't, and you are able to move on fully, that too is the end of it. Third case: You see no indication of your love being reciprocated, nor is there any direct indication that it isn't, and so, if your love is true enough and deep enough, then -- even in the teeth of a lack of 'evidence' -- you keep persevering, and you keep hoping, while at one level recognizing that all of this may be in vain.

Thus with this God business. There are those who find confirmation of God (let's not go into whether that confirmation is real or imagined, real or delusion, that's a separate discussion). Then there are those who, on not finding confirmation, simply move on from the God question, dwelling no more on this issue. (And of course, one related category would be igtheists who'd never ever concerned themselves with the God question at all, ever). And finally, the third category: those who're clear-headed and recognize that there's no evidence for God, who are decidedly atheistic, but who nevertheless do not quite "move on", not quite. There still remains some hope, and they still persevere, in their own way.

I myself have moved on from theism (never wholly unquestioning theism, never quite blind faith, but theism nevertheless); on to wholly on-the-fence agnosticism; to soft atheism; and further to (selective) hard atheism (that is, my atheism is soft in many instances, but on the other hand I've now begun to find hard atheism to be the reasonable stance in many other cases).

Nevertheless there still is yearning, there still is hope. No delusion, none: and I clearly recognize that chances are there'll be no nothing behind the curtain; nevertheless, hope there still remains, and I persevere on with my "practice", my atheism notwithstanding.

God bless you, Brian, for so beautifully recording your own journey in this blog. Footprints in the sand, and so forth. Others do draw both instruction and inspiration from you.