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February 18, 2019

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Thanks Brian for the update. You're a rockstar. You are just amazing.

I can’t see how that letter is an admission of liability.

It is asking the Singh brothers to sign the settlement letter.
What does that letter state?

It rather appears to stare that money is owed to gsd. Certainly very ambiguous

Osho Robbins, did you read my blog post excerpts from the newspaper story, and the story itself? The letter addresses more than a billion dollars in loans made to the Dhillon family and their associates that haven't been repaid.

In large part because of this, the Singh brothers business empire collapses. Shivinder Singh was willing to sign the family agreement letter because reportedly he had a commitment from Gurinder Singh to become the next guru. But Malvinder wants the money paid back, because he's on the hook for the loans made to the Dhillon family through shell companies.

When Malvinder persisted in his demands, he's asserting that Gurinder Singh made death threats against him -- just like a Mafia boss would. You really need to give up any belief that the RSSB guru is anyone other than a con artist.

Hi Brian
I understand what you are saying.

I just don’t understand why this letter is addrsssed to both of the brothers, when in may 2018, Shivinder was clearly with him, and I believe, staying in Beas.

The letter also states that the liabilities are not being taken care of.

What liabilities? He appears to be referring to liabilities of Shivinder and malvinder.

But what liabilities would they have to gsd and family?

Unless I have missed something, it doesn’t quite add up.

There is huge money involved in this. Malvinder and Shivinder have lost their entire family wealth. Mostly due to bad business decisions.
The decision to do business with gsd was also a choice they made.
Obviously when they originally sold their shares to gsd’s sons, that was the beginning of some business deal. Nobody just sells their shares just before going public.

Hi Osho
The agreement, if you read carefully, is for the other party to take care of Gurindar's debts, as per some prior agreement.

And because they have not, Gurindar is stating that he wants the other stuff he gave back.

In this letter he is actually confirming the fraud but attempting to claim a private agreement to forgive and forget supercedes the theft of publicly held funds.

Sadly, these liabilities aren't to Malvindar or Shivindar. They are to the Fortis board and stockholders.

The only way to do that is for Malvindar go to jail for the Dhillon fraud.

Malvindar can't make the liabilities go away.

He can only agree to assume all responsibility for Gurindar 's theft and go to jail in his place.


BTW Osho, if you are willing to go to jail for Baba Ji, you might consider, as several may be doing tonight, in light of the published letter, to offer to sign it, take a portion of the liability, and because it is far more than any average citizen can pay, go to jail for your Guru.

Proceed at will!


Sadly, these liabilities aren't to Malvindar or Shivindar. They are to the Fortis board and stockholders. The only way to do that is for Malvindar go to jail for the Dhillon fraud.

I saw Gurinder ends his letter to Malvinder explicitly with:
"revert all the properties back to us with a list of the
liabilities and we can work to settle the accounts".

Forgive my confusion but that sounds like Gurinder is
offering to resolve the issues collectively. Were some
of the acquired assets in Malvinder's purview possibly?

If so, wouldn't Malvinder and BabaJi's efforts to make
Fortis/Religare whole be good news to their Boards and
an opening for a settlement discussion? Or, at least a
mitigating factor in any criminal charges that might be
filed?

Brian ,
I had been informed by a few people in dera about meeting her regarding work . If it is false i dont know why they would lie . And if it is false then i am sorry for writing something that wasnt true . But i was under sn impression of what i was told by people living there, people who always know the happening of that place .


Sadly, these liabilities aren't to Malvindar or Shivindar. They are to the Fortis board and stockholders. The only way to do that is for Malvindar go to jail for the Dhillon fraud. Malvindar can't make the liabilities go away. He can only agree to assume all responsibility for Gurindar 's theft and go to jail in his place.

Um, I noticed Gurinder ends his quoted letter with:

The amicable way forward is to reverse all the decisions
and revert all the properties back to us with a list of the
liabilities and we can work to settle the accounts.

Forgive my confusion, but that sounds as if Gurinder is
offering a way forward to collectively resolve liabilities
after dissolving the private agreements. It seems more
strategic for them end the in-fighting in any event.

Wouldn't a Gur./Malvinder outreach also likely be well
received by Fortis/Religare as an opening for a settlement
discussion with their Boards? Any such efforts would almost
certainly be viewed favorably or, at the very least, reason
for mitigation of any criminal charges that might be pending.


Brian,

Just wanted to say how much I appreciate your ongoing coverage of this twisted affair. You are literally a “light bearer” (even if you don’t believe in the supernatural. ;)

I greatly admire Malvinder’s courage to speak up against his ex-guru. It must be far more intimidating for Malvinder to take this stand than any of us can truly understand or appreciate.

Also, it’s interesting that people zero in on one thing—like the letter—without putting it in the context of ALL the content, news articles and reports. This is exactly why we have Trump supporters—it seems so many people zero in on one thing and have tremendous difficulty putting information in context.

Thanks again. Your work is deeply appreciated.


Also, it’s interesting that people zero in on one thing—like the letter—without putting it in the context of ALL the content, news articles and reports. This is exactly why we have Trump supporters—it seems so many people zero in on one thing and have tremendous difficulty putting information in context.

Ah, yes, that's why we have legal systems and actual
evidence is examined critically in a court of law.

It's amazing how many of us zero in on myriads of news
items, opinions, and unconfirmed "reports" to declare
"verdicts" outside a court of a law. Yep " GSD is a fraud
and a cheat. Every sane person knows it. Hang him.
We don't need no stinkin' court."

Neha, the Dera is filled with people who would willingly lie on behalf of their guru. I can't say with 100% confidence who is right about Sheena, but until I see solid proof to the contrary, I'm going to believe Sheena when she says that she hasn't returned to the Dera or visited there.

Keep in mind that Sheena wrote some intense criticisms of Gurinder Singh's behavior. And now the Indian press is reporting about the guru's financial wrongdoings. It's possible that people at the Dera are making up stories about Sheena in an effort to show that Gurinder Singh is winning over his critics, with the implication being that Malvinder Singh and the Indian watchdog agencies also will end up on the guru's side.

I don't believe that at all. I'm just saying that since the Dera leadership has been deeply involved in the guru's financial misdeeds, there's good reason to consider that they're lying about Sheena. The guru and his cronies can't be trusted to do the right thing. Their focus is on using their positions to make lots of money.

Spence wrote: The agreement, if you read carefully, is for the other party to take care of Gurindar's debts, as per some prior agreement.

And because they have not, Gurindar is stating that he wants the other stuff he gave back.

In this letter he is actually confirming the fraud.

OR:
That is exactly my point. Gsd owes the two brothers a huge amount of money. But then I do not understand how they are required to take care of the liabilities and debts of Gsd.
That means they are supposed to give him more money.
I don’t get it.
If he already owes them say $1 billion;
And he has transferred property worth $200 million; then he still owes them an additional $800 million.
How can that translate to them owing him money for his debts.
Why would they agree to that?
Why would the letter or agreement state that they have to pay his debts when clearly he owes them a huge amount of money.
All I am saying is that something does not add up.
In business, people do lots of dodgy things. It is the nature of the beast.

In this case huge amounts of money are involved. Threats, blackmail, forgery, bribery, under the table deals. These all happen and are commonplace.

Very few eventually come to light, because that only happens if things go “wrong”.

In this case things went wrong. Then it’s each man for himself.

So Shivinder attacks malvinder. Hardly a surprise. They are no longer best friends. They pretty much hate each other. This is a war and each party does what it needs to do. Politics, strategy, threats, they will all happen. It is unrealistic to think otherwise.

Gsd just has more to lose because of his public position.

The ONENESS context:

There is only the ONE, there is no other.

So then what’s all this that’s happening?

The same ONE is playing both sides of the game. It’s easy to see if you are not involved.

There is a saying; everyone is enlightened at the top of a mountain, no involvement; no argument.
It’s easy to see that all is one and nothing really matters.

Now let’s bring the Buddha down from the mountain top.

Still nothing matters. It’s all just a game. If you die today, then all this money has zero meaning.

But when you are in the middle of it all, it is hugely real.
It is easy to say, “I am not involved, the money is just a game. I know this is not real”
However it certainly appears real when you are involved.
Just imagine for a moment that all this was not to do with gsd.
Is was two other parties.
And someone asks him a question on the mic about the saga.
He could easily say “none of it matters. All the money is left behind. It is maya. Just step back and see it all as a divine play”

It’s easy when you have nothing involved. It’s not so easy when huge family fortunes and reputation and blackmail and threats are involved.

A far cry from the days when baba Jaimal Singh sat in a little mud hut by the river beas.

Sawan said “I will make this a huge ashram in your name”

Jaimal said “yes, but it will become your prison”

Gobind Singh sacrificed his four sons and still didn’t get upset.
“Nothing is mine” is easy to say when you have very little. Not so easy for Janak when he hands over his entire kingdom to a man who cannot even stand up straight.
The realisation that janak got in return was “ nothing is mine - not even ME”

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Everyone knows this won't make the slightest bit of difference to the true believer. It will all be washed away in metaphysical sleight of hand way; that the Guru is testing the disciples; that he was not involved in unscrupulous elements; that even he has karma to go through; that faith needs challenges; that despite it all he is still God incarnate; etc/etc.
It will all be wished away and ignored, except for the very few who will engage their critical thinking faculties.
Only problem is that this looks like what it is; financial wheeling and dealing and underhand behavior. Dress it up how you like; for anyone else it would be straight forward low behavior, but as it involves an 'elevated soul' then it has to mean something else to the theologically blinded true believers. In this case it doesn't look to me like some God game out of John Fowles the Magus; some elaborate testing of faith by a Sufi master. It looks just like what it was. Only saving grace is that it isn't a sex scandal.

Hi Osho:

You wrote:

"That is exactly my point. Gsd owes the two brothers a huge amount of money. But then I do not understand how they are required to take care of the liabilities and debts of Gsd.
That means they are supposed to give him more money.
I don’t get it. "

Here is my take on this. We know Gurindar's wife took loans amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars through shell companies. This was done illegally and constitutes fraud.

Many of those loans were the property of Fortis, a publicly held company.

The loans were given with zero collateral, in secret and in violation of company guidlines as well as ethical and legal standards accounting practice.

According to the letter, In 2013 Gurindar makes a verbal agreement to give certain things to the two brothers in exchange for handling those liabilities. Gurindar submits, days ago, this letter as an explanation about the fraudulent loans. This letter refers to them as Liabilities.

As the letter states, the verbal agreement was upon hearing of his cancer diagnosis, so this is really a form of estate planning. Malvinder and Shivinder offer to do anything they can to take on these debts for their beloved Guru, and Gurindar also offers certain things to them.

Then, when Malvinder refuses to sign this (because basically, to cover those liabilities himself he will be going to jail), Gurindar writes this letter asking for his stuff back, the things he gave Malvinder and Shivinder.

And then Gurindar says basically, give those things back and I'll work on settling these liabilities myself, out of court.

So, the properties he gave, he wants back. And no, Shivinder won't be wearing the turban any time soon.

Unfortunately, we don't really know what he gave the brothers in that verbal conversation.

But we do know there is no legal means for Malvinder to cover the loans.

Basically Gurindar is either asking Malvinder to cook the books again or to go to jail. The idea that Malvinder can just take responsibility to make the debts disappear reflects the culture of a family run empire, where anything goes, not a publicly held company, where you must have transparency and responsibility to shareholders and the board to follow accounting, ethical and legal practices.

At this point Malvinder doesn't have the secrecy available to cook the books once again, and so he would have to go to jail.

Gurindar well knows that Malvindar can't give back what he was given since he is already in hoc.

What Gurindar needs to do is just go public. Which this letter attempts to do, but not in a very ethical and forthright way.

What Gurindar is saying here is, "yes, I did take the money, but Malvinder had agreed to take responsibility for all that in exchange for other stuff I gave him".

Not how a true Sant Sat Guru actually operates, which is to take full responsibility for one's own actions.


However, the Sangat will gladly cover the loans. Take 4M people, and if each donates $100 the Fortis loans are covered. Donate $300 each and the whole for both the loans and the liabilities of both brothers disappears. I would gladly donate $300 directly. Why? Because Gurindar is just a guy, but a guy who has held a very high and inspiring standard for conduct for decades. The fact that he fell is not an issue. He's just a guy. We all do have our shortcomings. He happens to like money.

But to live for an ideal, that I support.

My sense is that the leaders are discussing this right now, or are being set upon by Satsangis who want to do this.

Naturally, much of the Sangat can't afford any such thing, but there is so much wealth among the rest, it would be possible.

But of course, as above, then we are donating to a friend who got themselves into hot water with shady financial dealings. Not a true Guru. But a man who has inspired acts of charity, kindness, forgiveness and decency around the world for a very long time.

That's the price to pay. The Sangat won't care. They love their Guru. He's fine just as a human being. A flawed one, but an inspiring one.

This will be the end of this particular line, and that's as it should be.

Another line will start at the right time and place.

There is only ONE on one level.
Then as you get closer and closer to the level of “reality” that we live in in this world, you have to respect that there are many. Many others that are not you and we have boundaries. Boundaries don’t really exist on the plane of ONENESS. But on this plane—this shared reality; consensus reality, we have to respect boundaries and that’s why we have laws.

A good investigator researches all the findings before determining what’s true or “more true” out of all that is brought to light. There’s no need for condemnation—that’s for the courts to decide.

Karma is cause and effect. It’s Old Testament justice—eye for an eye. And if you live by that principle, which GSD does, then you will die by that principle as well... if you’re guilty that is. Who knows, time will certainly tell. I believe in forgiveness but GSD doesn’t and that’s really too bad for him.


Basically Gurindar is either asking Malvinder to cook the books again or to go to jail.

I think those buses outta Dodge have already left the station
haven't they... the press is hot on their tail and who's gonna
believe any books they cook now.

No, I'm intrigued by GSD's letter ender: "we can work to settle
the accounts.". Call me crazy, but I suspect that's inclusive of
every party in this sordid mess. GSD did describe it as the
"amicable" way to move forward too. If there's a "jail"
option, that'd hardly be the case.

His language may also signal an opening for a settlement
discussion with the Boards regardless of any subsequent
criminal prosecutions. Being made whole would certainly
have primacy for defrauded stockholders in any event.

Where is Sheena? Does she ever tslk for herself?

Quote Spence: They love their Guru. He's fine just as a human being. A flawed one, but an inspiring one.


Hello, Spence. Long time! I guess the other blog keeps you busy these days?! We miss your considered, reasoned, gentle comments here.

Re. the above -- certainly that sentence itself, and also all of what you've said in this vein -- lots of contradictions there, wouldn't you say?

How can a flawed human -- flawed to the extent of, perhaps, actual criminality -- be "fine", or an "inspiration", unless you're holding to unreasonably low standards? To say nothing of his posing (probably overtly, and certainly through implication) as some kind of spiritual superman when he is, in fact, nothing of the kind (as you yourself have now come to accept)?

Sure, even a flawed human being can be a friend, and it is a good thing to stand by a friend and help them in trying times, as you've offered to do. That's a separate thing altogether.

In fact, I'd say, myself, that misleading trusting folks is, in my book, an even greater 'offense', if I may call it that. You take the simple trust of literally millions, and have them believe you're some kind of divine being, and that you'll be instrumental in getting all kinds of fantastic things done for these people ... that's, like, insupportable! I can sympathize if the man is literally delusional, but if he isn't, then ...?


And what happened to GSD's declaration, reported here some weeks (or was it months?) back, about giving a comprehensive statement explaining all of these irregularities?


Spence presents the compassionate view;
'The Sangat won't care. They love their Guru. He's fine just as a human being. A flawed one, but an inspiring one'.
That about sums it up as far as impact on RSSB followers goes. Used to be one until very recently, but am now waking up from the dream. Find it all a bit sad really, especially for family members who may be upset by it all. But then again I don't think this will penetrate the thick veil of faith and will be justified along the lines of 'well he makes mistakes (or seems to) on the human level, but at the Divine level he remains the same'. Don't underestimate the ability of 'true faith' to justify/excuse/forget/dismiss/evoke metaphysical speculations. anything but engage with true critical thinking, albeit tempered by the warmth shown by Spence.
At the very least some of the 'true believers' don't just think GSD is just human. If they can allow this mess to permeate their consciousness then they may start to see he is just a bloke, a geezer, a dude, a regular guy who screwed up. He may even be an exceptional guy in some regards as Spence flags up. But lets be clear, he is no GIHF (God in human form). No more than the rest of us anyway, in case you still believe in any of this.

A true shock indeed for HIS millions of followers for multiple reasons. One is that HE seems to have been in deep crisis. Of whose doing is this need an answer and which may never get revealed. Whether he himself has fallen consciously into it or was just carrying the burden of his other greedy family members. None of us is sure.

A common satsangi recognises him to be wealthy as were his predecessors. This lineage of Saints could not be compared to Guru Ravidass or Kabir or even Christ who lived a life of mostly penury and hardships except Baba Jaimal Singh ji who had simple lives and habits. What has compelled their families to fall in trap of this huge money businesses - intertwined into many ifs and buts. Not easy to comprehend.

A business model in India in itself suggests that ethics and clean money must have been compromised to lesser or greater extent even though perfect legally - in books or records. And to be at the top ladder among business houses as Fortis or Religare etc mean that it must have been difficult to retain morals or ethics or clean money and which is extremely essential in this spiritual business.

Say, I get involved in such intertwined business chain so as to maximise profits geometrically while at the same time be perfect in the spiritual arena, will it work? I have so far no answers with this development.

I have kept safe distances from such compromises except for one or two minor ones (that too only very recently) with the purpose to be as clean as possible even though indian conditions do not allow same sometimes.

a satguru is never in crisis. he can handle anything. this is nothing for him. guru gobind lost his four sons and didnt care. what makes you think any of this matters to gurinder?

this is just a business deal. malvinder has lost and wants revenge now. he was never a disciple.

gurus do not give the gaddi for money. this is a made up story. who is the right person is chosen.

how does malvinder know? was he there? no - its just his theory. part of his revenge to make gurinder look like a bad person. this is verh bad karma to do this to a guru who comes only to help others

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