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January 08, 2019

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And one who likes psychedelic mushrooms and a bit of pot! The true test of spiritual evolvement is going it alone, without mind altering substances. You do the whole yards or not at all, if you are serious. Contradictory, expounding being a vegetarian and still taking mind altering poisons I'd say. Makes you lose credibility. (I read your blog on the mushrooms).

Fairy writes: "The true test of spiritual evolvement is going it alone, without mind altering substances."

--What is it that evolves spiritually? Where is it located and what are its boundaries (if any)? What is spiritual evolvement and who determines it has occurred or that it is genuine or if there is such a thing as 'genuine evolvement'.

Fairy writes: "Contradictory, expounding being a vegetarian and still taking mind altering poisons I'd say. Makes you lose credibility."

-- What is contradictory about being vegetarian and taking psychedelics?

Blogger writes: "...people will go to great lengths to save a kitten or baby duck trapped in a storm drain. These same people, though, have no problem eating chickens raised cruelly in factory farms."

--This is interesting because I am one of those people. I have chickens, mainly for eggs. A bobcat (whose pelt now hangs on a guest house door) came along and killed a couple of them. I heard the terrified squawking and came out to find two dead or dying chickens while the bobcat casually sauntered off, paused, and licked its paws.

One chicken was mangled and dead but the other was still clinging to life with a punctured throat. I was distressed because this chicken had a name, Margaret, and was one of our favorites because of its cute personality. I held her for a while unable to help in any way and she died shortly.

I was pissed and thought about trying to chase and get the bobcat, but realized that would be futile. It would be watching me, invisible its hiding place, while I trudged around with a machete ready to do battle. Yes, snowflakes, I sometimes exhibit some of that dreaded toxic masculinity.

So, my attention turned to the dead chickens. What to do with them? One was pretty torn up but Margaret was in good shape, for a dead chicken, except for the wound in her throat. I decided to process Margaret for the evening meal. Why should she go to waste? So, into the crock pot she went with some spices and vegetables. The other chicken was buried until some coyote found it and dug it up.

The time came for dinner and we sat down to some Margaret soup. This was weird. The flavor was undeniably good because Margaret was healthy on a good diet of bugs, lizards, grain and vegetable scraps. A fine specimen. But at the same time it was difficult because of what the chicken was.. a kind of pet. I think it is best not to name any animal you may end up eating.

I am not a big meat eater. I don't enjoy the slaughter, blood and guts. But I have to say it is natural. Life feeds on life and everything dies one way or another. I will die one day and possibly become food for something or things. It's just the way it is. If we turn all the farm animals loose, they will still die either to illness, starvation or predation. It likely will not be painless. Sometimes the slaughterhouse is more merciful than what nature has to offer.

There is no doubt humans can live on a vegetarian diet, especially if a wide variety of foods are available due to farming. Modern agriculture allows us the luxury of being picky. Personally, I have found the body thrives better with some animal protein in the mix. I know, "scientifically", complete protein can be found in plant food, but there is something in the symbiotic relation of nutrients in animal food that provides something more.

I think the natural diet of humans becomes clear when we are cast into nature with nothing but a knife or sharp stick. Ever seen the show "Naked and Afraid"?

We are omnivores by design and vegetarians by choice.

omg tucson, I would never have been able to eat Margaret. No flipping way! I'd rather starve than eat animals or birds. Surely humans can evolve from being indulgent savages?!

I'm not very impressed with people and the way that they behave and its not easy being different and trying to live with compassion and understanding and at the same time observing most people who don't seem to care about anything other than themselves. Its a totally crazy world imo. Even though I don't see myself as a satsangi any more I'm still grateful for following a path that teaches strong ethics in observing the five deadly sins, lust, anger, attachment, greed and ego. There does not seem any point in living if we have nothing to live for except indulgence. Of course no-one is perfect but at least we can try to live with strong ethics.

Its okay tucson, I still luv ya and I know you won't give a sh*t about who and what I am. Gotta laugh at life as well as trying to do the best we can, probably what helps is to believe that we actually have a soul and an afterlife to experience...

Hey Jen,
I care about who you are and your thoughts.. as far as a blog goes. I understand your sentiments about eating animals. I was a strict vegetarian for 27 years largely because of Sant Mat influence, but also personal sentiment. I explained my current thoughts and rationale about food in my comment above which changed once Sant Mat was no longer the guiding force in my life.

In the case of Margaret, I didn't want her death to be just a death, go to waste and just decay in the ground. Sometimes practical considerations outweigh idealistic ones.

However, such considerations stop at relatives. All others, do you prefer to be sauteed or baked?

Tucson, you say: "All others, do you prefer to be sauteed or baked?"

Oh dear, I wonder that maybe some time in the apocalyptic future there is a scarcity of food and people might become cannibals. Like some kind of horror movie. Now I will stop thinking about this! Freaking me out!

I'll end with "chickens are people too"... ;)

Tucson, In answer to your question about my perceived contradiction about being vegatarian and taking mind altering substances - as well as being vegetarian from an ethical and compassionate point of view, it is also for health reasons and purity in finer or sattvic(?) type nutrition for maximum awareness benefits. Therefore, if that being the case, it is obvious drugs certainly add to toxin levels in the body. "Shitty" livers cause "shitty"dispositions.

In answer to what is awareness and where does it go? I really don't know yet, and doubt if I ever will. Look at Rupert Spira on You Tube. He explains it quite well I think.

Chooks eat their own excrement as do pigs. The pigs clean the latrines in India sitting below long drops waiting - so I have been told although I never saw it, while there. Why do you think Muslims don't eat pork? Why do you think samonella (?) is rife in chicken and pork. UGH! Plus these days factory farming, apart from being cruel and disgusting, the food the animals are feed is suspect. Now I read on SOTT that plants have feelings and feel pain. Well everything is relative at whatever level or degree of consciousness we reside in. Of course we could be harvested when we die for some other degree of being as nutrition. Or some race of beings on the same physical plane could be waiting to harvest us when our population explodes. Science fiction!

Black holes are very hungry! But that's another story. Really in the end what will be will be. And as MRSDOASYOUWILLBEDONEBY in The Water Babies said, BEDONEBYASYOUWOULD!

Furthermore, plants, I believe , have only the water element active in their make up. I am no scientist, but I would think it most beneficial for humans to nourish themselves with a plant based diet, compassion aside, given the water content that makes up our bodies, with Earth, Wind, Fire, Water and Ether all active and flowing in harmony on a vegan (preferable) diet.

We all know that water molecules are affected by vibrations. You can see lovely or ugly pictures of the effects of sound and mood on water. So it stands to reason that plants have feelings then, given their active water content. Perhaps the water molecules in plants remain purer than those in grosser forms of life, as do other elements as they progress up the scale or down the scale ( scale= vibration=shabd). Everything is really just scientifically based. I think Sant Mat and Mahayana Tibetan Buddhism just try to explain this at different levels according to understanding. In Buddhism, at one particular level in the early stages a concept is taught, then as one progresses, that same concept is taught in a different light which is quite different from the original thought.This is what I think, anyway. And as you progress in your understanding, you see things differently. You would not tell a 4 year old child about menstruation and the complexities of creating a baby. You would explain it in simple terms at a level the child could grasp. What that child's understanding is at that stage, only the child knows. As it grows older and is ready with more of life's experiences behind it, then it is ready for a deeper understanding and the actual truth of the function, which could very well negate all previous understandings on the matter.

Just so, for religion and the process and progression of TRUTH.

words....words.....words

noise in the wind

those you help will turn on you

no one is worthy

the compassionate are alone

on this earth

the great secret of mankind ..,,,,

we have already gone to hell,,,,,,

and we are all in denial

Hi Mike. Long time no see.

Jen, There was a movie decades ago called "Soylent Green", I think. I also seem to think Charlton Heston was the star. I'm too lazy to look it up. Anyway, it was about a future time of food scarcity where the dietary staple was something called Soylent Green. It turned out it was made of people. I think I spoiled the punchline.

Fairy wrote: " it is also for health reasons and purity in finer or sattvic(?) type nutrition for maximum awareness benefits. Therefore, if that being the case, it is obvious drugs certainly add to toxin levels in the body. "Shitty" livers cause "shitty"dispositions."

-- I have seen very toxic, unaware vegans and very healthy, aware omnivores. It all depends. Moderation is the key, they say. Also, moderation in moderation is important too. Sometimes, in the case of psychedelics, a little temporary toxicity is worth it. Again, moderation is the key as well as moderation in moderation. Even so, even saints and sages die. Those that haven't are rumors.

I was a fruitarian for some time. I believed that was the ideal human diet. I was young and athletic at the time and I did physical work. I found the diet insufficient, so I added nuts, seeds and greens until I got serious about a certain sport. Then the body needed every calorie and nutrient from every source available that I could manage to stuff into it. Still it wasn't enough. Oxidative stress puts years on the body, much more than animal protein. Again, moderation is the key and moderation in moderation. It's a balancing act. Sometimes the body needs this and sometimes that and sometimes nothing at all. Rigidity in principle or ideal can be toxic as well.

But yes, factory animal farming is gross. In nature, pigs are much cleaner.

I think I read something by Rupert Spira-Spiro? If I remember correctly I enjoyed his perspective. Consciousness always is just this, body or not.

tucson: "I have seen very toxic, unaware vegans and very healthy, aware omnivores." I agree, moderation is the key. Also my theory is that a positive attitude is probably the best thing we can do for our body. I am careful with what I eat and also try to stay off the sugary stuff.

I remember watching a documentary called "Is Sugar the New Fat?" they thought people were overweight because the problem was too much fat in the foods, so they changed to using more sugar instead of fat in products, so now we have an even bigger problem.

Just watched the youtube trailer of Soylent Green (year 2022) glad you told us the punchline! Masses of people fighting for food, quite prophetic, only 3 years to go, oops.

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