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December 07, 2018

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Hi Brian
You wrote
"Since members of this group were told over and over that they've been singled out by a higher power to learn cosmic truths and experience realms of reality not available to other human beings, naturally a pervading sense of "tribal" pride was evident throughout the organization."

This rings true. In our Sangat about nine or ten years ago there was a newer Satsangi of only four years who had been a devout catholic nun for decades. I remember a phone conversation with her. She was both disappointed and distraught that Baba Ji had said Sant Mat wasn't the only path to enlightenment. He had said there were other paths also. But she bemoaned that after all she had been wrong all those years praying to Jesus, and she thought she had finally found the one true Master, only to be told this wasn't the only path. So then what is the true path?
It took me a few moments to figure out why this would be a bad thing to her.

"Look," I tried to explain, "you weren't on the wrong path before and you are not in the wrong path now. All that love you showered on Jesus, that's God's love in you. It comes from within you that is divine. You didn't make that love. Just as you didn't make yourself. It's perfect, it's a gift, even though we don't understand it. Nothing was lost. It's just moving the same money from one bank to another, and with each wave of sincere love. The account grows and grows. It hardly matters what bank you keep it on. You put it in the bank closest to your home. That's a great place. "

@Appreciate Reader

This above article says it all perfectly. The three paragraphs above just before the heading "profitable spiritual investing"

The point I was making, in the comments at "the absurdity of sach khand", before it got into a lengthy discussion about the eternal (non ending) nature of the universe, was exactly what Brian has written much more clearly above: namely that everything here is maya, no exceptions. Not even the universe.

And the way out is the empty space, the not-maya, which cannot be described. This is exactly what sant mat guys call "shabd" except they have made the classical mistake of giving it a "form" (light and sound) so they are chasing it, once again falling into the same trap of making god a noun.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/brother-attacked-me-malvinder-no-he-hit-me-claims-shivinder/articleshow/66978529.cms

Maybe some unknown dealings of Babaji Gurinder Singh Dhillon surface up.


Quote Osho Robbins:
" ... everything here is maya, no exceptions. Not even the universe.

And the way out is the empty space, the not-maya, which cannot be described."


Yes, Osho Robbins, that is exactly what Brian seems to be saying. (Somewhat surprisingly, I have to say.)

I'm afraid I don't agree.

To think of this as "maya" would be to imply there is something that is not maya. If what we see around is all there is, then it makes no sense to think of this as illusion or maya merely because this is transient.

As for "the way out" -- why, we're now firmly in beliefs-land when we start thinking and speaking of "a way out" of all this. If this is all there is -- then there is no question of any way out of this, except that our consciousness ends at one point, at which moment of annihilation we cease to register anything more.

To think and speak in terms of "a way out" clearly implies a whole worldview for which there is no evidence.




While the above, what I said, is my view on "what is" -- nevertheless, I confess, I devote a not insubstantial portion of my day to specific practices (based on three separate systems) that seek to uncover exactly these layers, that I'm saying there are no grounds to accept.

So, while it seems both you and Brian are wrong in thinking and saying these things -- you're basically sharing beliefs for which there is no evidence -- nevertheless I do hope that something along those lines might actually turn out to be the case, and that my "practice" -- humble and ineffectual though it is -- might let me share in some form in that greater reality.


Wow Juan!
"Malvinder said the board meeting was held to decide to recover the money from the Dhillon group. However, he claimed that Shivinder went to the Hanumen Road office and tried to disrupt the board meeting in order to derail the recovery process, though he is not a board member. Malvinder said when he came to know of the episode he rushed to the venue. As soon as he reached there, Shivinder assaulted him, he claimed.

"Shivinder, on his part, denied Malvinder's claims as" false and fabricated " and said it was Malvinder who hit him.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/brother-attacked-me-malvinder-no-he-hit-me-claims-shivinder/articleshow/66978529.cms

Had they only followed Brian's advice and invested through index investing so this would have been avoided., but no, they had to have it all.....

Fraud and flawed characters..The Dhillon legacy.

@ Brian - I agree with that post.

@ Spencer - disheartening this is. But I agree with you too. Flawed and loads of brain washing

Hi Osho and Appreciative
Great exchange!

Osho you wrote
"namely that everything here is maya, no exceptions. Not even the universe.

And the way out is the empty space, the not-maya, which cannot be described. This is exactly what sant mat guys call "shabd" except they have made the classical mistake of giving it a "form" (light and sound) so they are chasing it, once again falling into the same trap of making god a noun.... "

And Appreciative, you responded

"As for "the way out" -- why, we're now firmly in beliefs-land when we start thinking and speaking of "a way out" of all this. If this is all there is -- then there is no question of any way out of this, except that our consciousness ends at one point, at which moment of annihilation we cease to register anything more.

To think and speak in terms of "a way out" clearly implies a whole worldview for which there is no evidence."


Let me offer a third view I call Oneness.

The universe is really one thing. It can be reduced to one thing called energy, in one form or another, and space, in a very large span of time which we occupy moment by moment in different places here.

It takes many forms.

And we are witnesses to a few of these through these biochemical vessels.

We can see only a tiny fraction of the individual forms, places and actions that fill this universe. We can also conceptualize what we've learned into a larger understanding of our connectedness to this time, this location, this body, this idea, these beliefs, this whole.

Our mind can make symbols and put them together in different ways, so we can invent things that didn't exist before.

All of this is reality, though we only witness a small part. And science has confirmed some things, but there is much that science doesn't know yet.

To call this illusion would require another benchmark for reality which, in comparison one would make the claim for illusion.

Today I see something I didn't see yesterday. By comparison, yesterday I was in a little more illusion, and today I'm in a state of more reality. I got to this place through some learning and reflection. That's how I know that now I see things differently.

I didn't leave. Well, I'm no longer living yesterday, but I didn't have to do anything to get to today other than live through what has taken place between yesterday and today

The world is the same world, same reality. A layer of my own illusion has fallen away. I've entered a place, psychologically of greater clarity. But the world is the same and I'm still a part of it.


THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEEVAS (Souls + ego)
No singel exception

They will all return to the one (Brian's 'existence'). , . . ALL
Each atom, each quark
no other destination

There is just some difference in Time to exit

That'sall - All of us will enjoy, smile about it , what happend here.

But U must believe it - We really must - to hav it ended in a reasonable period
because what we believe ( think quantum ) will come forth

777

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