« My "spiritual" Theory of Everything is coming along nicely | Main | Comments are back to being moderated. Religious craziness is the reason. »

December 01, 2018

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Master Brian writes,.......”for about 35 years I practiced a form of meditation that involved devotion to a supposedly "perfect guru." The technique involved repetition of a mantra with a focus on the center of the forehead, drawing attention away from the body and external world. The goal was to "go within" and experience realms of existence beyond the physical.

I learned a lot during those years of meditating from one to two-and-a-half hours a day.

Eventually, though, it dawned on me that what I was learning wasn't what this particular spiritual path of Radha Soami Satsang Beas wanted me to learn. So for quite a few years I've shifted to a Buddhist style of meditation centered on awareness of the breath -- along with whatever else is happening within me and without me.,”

Me: Brian, from what you wrote above, it appears the reason you have never learned to enter Sach Khand the Radhasoami Way, is because you are not listening to the Sound.

I believe that the final Goal of Sant Mat, reaching Sach Khand, and the Goal of Buddhism reaching Nirvana, and the Goal of Hindus reaching Samadhi, is all the same Place.

Sant Mat Technique of focusing at the Third Eye doing Simran Mantras, THEN listening to the Sound of Shabd, which opens the Star Gate to the flickers of Light, Lightnig Bolts, Sun, Moon, then the Silver White Swirling Star bobbing up & down, left to right, right to left, tauting you, challenging you, to catch it if you can, stabalizes, at your Third Eye, and sucks you right thru the middle Vortex launching you out of body in to the Astral Blue Sky on your way to Sach Khand.

ALL of those Visuals are unleased from the Sound, as Light comes from Sound, not Sound from Light.

You should have learned ( of you weren’t smoking Weed and drinking Alcohol, and were paying attention ) that the Soul has only two Sensory Detectors, i.e. Sound & Light.

Your Buddhist technique of “ watching your breath” or “ being aware” will never launch you out of your body in to the Astral Blue Sky.

Breath is air. There is nothing to SEE and nothing to HEAR. ( unless you exhali g Weed smoke)

Even using hand Mudras will keep you in your body.

Sant Mat is still the only Real Deal.

You have been initiated by the Best of The Best Master of our life times, i.e. Master Charan Singh.

Take the Advice of those you who have succeeded in obtaining the Promises Master Sawan Singh made in Spiritual Gems, and that Master Charan taught that you have read,

Repent from all your failures on the Path of Sant Mat, and start back at the beginning, as if on a New Path. Charan’s Bulldozer Chain is still hooked to your Third Eye, where his Astral Clone was implanted.

Renew your Vows, and return to Tithing your time of 2-1/2 hours a day in seeking God, and waiting, watching and hearing as the “ Window of Heaven” i.e. the Star Gate leading to Sach Khand opens for you.

Its never too late as long as your still in your body and doing your Spiritual Practice you were taught by Charan at Initiation.

Shut out the Skeptics, the loosers, the Exers, the Agents of Kal, and quit wasting time reading more books. You have already read the Books that led you to ask Charan to Initiate you. Now, take and use his Prescribed Medicine and quit watching Weed tainted breath!

Radhasoami,
Jim Sutherland,


I remember at initiation we were dis-advised
to have any concentration on our breath chakra

That is because many disciples come from that level
where Brahma reigns,
Same for the heart chakra !

The Third Eye is a totally different ball game

Yes, . . your martial comparison is correct
you stayed at the brown belt dog chasing its tail

like going to the ISS using a ferry boat

Why not go back for at least a year to the other entrance which
connects with you Crown and your Master
and makes you lose your itching ego

777

You stayed on the brown

Buddhist NIRVANA leads souls to Oblivian.

Hindu Samadhi leads souls to Oblivian.

RADHASOAMI collapses Observer souls in to the Observed.

Jim Sutherland

@ 777 - the breathing technique is dangerous perhaps Brian is meat to go through a lower door where he will meet entities of a rather dubious nature and then realise!

@ Jim - salute!

Wow I loved reading your thread - it makes so much strength and loved the bull dozer comment - glad we are all tied to the Lord. Thank you for writing that - it was of a different level

777, you have no knowledge of what meditation is all about. Following the breath isn't dangerous at all. It is very healthy. Only RSSB/Sant Mat fanatics who believe the only REAL meditation is what the RSSB gurus teach believe this.

You are breathing every moment of every day, as we all are. Following the breath doesn't mean controlling the breath, except briefly. You simply use the breath as a focus of attention, along with being aware of bodily sensations, what's going on in the outside world, and inner thoughts/feelings.

Educate yourself before you leave more ridiculous comments. I'm fine with you sharing your religious beliefs, as crazy as they may be, but believing Buddhist meditation is dangerous is way beyond crazy.

The author of either this post or the book it attempts to review appears to have a lot of ideas about what nirvana is or isn't, what are or are not defense mechanisms, and what notions of the self or no - self are. He / they seem to think most spiritual pursuits are wrong outside of their own practice.

To escape all that thinking you can't actually start judging all these things. Quite the opposite. You must accept that unicorns might exist, along with trolls ( ;)) and be fine not worrying about any of it. You might say "unicorns might exist, they might be part of someone else's spirituality, but they are not part of my experience and not my thing."

Any form of significant mental focus, including athletics, can take you away from the ego, and into a higher plane of thought, higher mind, greater intuitive insights that are more accurate than daily thinking, even at some point universal mind where whole designs, entire scripts and symphonies, mathematical formula, genetic restructures can be viewed, if only momentarily at first, in their complete entirety. Including your opponents next step.

And that does require an object of focus. Could be the car you are trying to repair, the canvas you are trying to paint. That white lion of a blank screen you are trying to fill with ideas, even fictional ones.

Work in the lab, focus on theoretical physics, any focus at all can accomplish the entire loss of ego, teamwork included, so long as your focus is the goal. Becoming one with the idea, the task, the athletic performance, in that mind of prolonged focus, where you really are returning your mind over and over to the problem, the work, the concept. At some point you are pulled into that concept, that story, that invention. And then you are experiencing a higher level of mind that has nothing to do with you personally. You are one with the objective. And the design designs itself so long as you stay attending to it!

And then it takes you on a ride and you want to stay there moving through the issues and the organic emergence of solutions that emerge through the fog is parts, but completely on its own. Like a flower growing, the design and the final result were always there. The water of your attention was the only remaining element needed.

That is a level of nirvana, and this is the pleasure that keeps most of the creative world, that impetus for creative work in this world, going. Rather than leave all that, go into it! And you will be leaving yourself behind. All that will matter is the greater purpose.

"Love the art in yourself, not yourself in the art."
-Stanislavsky

It is the exact same process as focusing on your breath and then in that, leaving your self consciousness and experiencing real happiness by leaving that self - conscious worry behind. It's a natural process.

Are there regions of heaven? Is there a God? Both of these are experiences.

Anyone who says there is nowhere else to go but where you are only has it partly right. That is a nice game to help you start within yourself. That's where it all happens. Not anywhere else. The launch pad is within you. But there are infinite places to go through that Star gate. We are all connected, the whole creation, and all the larger ones this small one resides within. To get there you need a seed thought, and that thought takes you on a specific journey. You are picking a location to start, athletics, science, philosophy, mathematics, engineering, business, art, and with a single point of focus opening a wormhole only large enough for your attention to pass through infinite time and space, all the past and all the future within that single infinite one dimensional string no larger than the width of the smallest quanta.

But to understand how to do that you may find teachers in many different places, and endeavors.

Before there can be God realization there must be self - realization, and that is art, and different for each person. To look at others' practices and call them wrong is so old fashioned and wrong itself.

The art of focus and the pleasure of using mind to go beyond mind is as widely varied as each of us, including Einstein riding on a beam of light. He wasn't thinking about his breathing. He was worshipping a beam of light with every grain of his attention.

So what works for each of us is going to be different.

God realization is too big. Let's start with self - realization.

I believe this is what Buddha was talking about.

@ Spencer “know thyself”

As for Shabd, the divine sound, that attends any significant focus on anything. Reading a textbook carefully can bring forth the Shabd, the divine Logos, the Word.

Having sex can bring forth Shabd.

Suffering grief can bring forth Shabd.

Anyone who reaches a level of focus will experience Shabd.

The issue is how to focus on the Shabd itself so that it grows into a mighty storm of thunder and lightening, and then the deep resonating of the bell of creation itself,
then and pulls the soul beyond regions of mind, lower and higher, in an instant through the stars, all the while realizing every particle of light is conscious, is love.

That is a different destination. Not everyone is mentally ready for that.

But enjoying the pleasure of nirvana, blowing away all other thoughts and just enjoying the existence of all these solutions, all this full creation, that is an easier go, and Spirituality all its own.

The practice of art or engineering is spirituality.

@ Spencer - what you wrote above is so gorgeous “star gate” etc and the science behind it - just wow . It’s so profound and deep - rich too. You are operating from a higher mind brother

Copied from above below

“Anyone who says there is nowhere else to go but where you are only has it partly right. That is a nice game to help you start within yourself. That's where it all happens. Not anywhere else. The launch pad is within you. But there are infinite places to go through that Star gate. We are all connected, the whole creation, and all the larger ones this small one resides within. To get there you need a seed thought, and that thought takes you on a specific journey. You are picking a location to start, athletics, science, philosophy, mathematics, engineering, business, art, and with a single point of focus opening a wormhole only large enough for your attention to pass through infinite time and space, all the past and all the future within that single infinite one dimensional string no larger than the width of the smallest quanta”.

The comments on this post by RSSB true believers make me ever so happy that I'm no longer mired in Sant Mat dogmatism. Wow, you guys really believe that the only genuine form of meditation is that proscribed by a few gurus in northwest India, and every other form is worthless.

Your disdain for Buddhist forms of meditation reveals that you know nothing about them. I've been meditating for quite a few years with a focus on breathing, quieting the mind, and being acutely aware of sensations both within and without me. I can testify to the benefits.

Spence, since you haven't read "No Self, No Problem," I need to tell you that in the parts of the book I've read so far, more than half, there isn't even a hint that Thubten disparages other forms of meditation. He simply is presenting the truth about meditation as Buddhism sees it, and as how he has experienced it.

There are many subtle ways ego expresses itself. One is believing that we have found a spiritual, mystical, or religious path that is superior to all others. Buddhism doesn't do this. At heart it is a self-destructing philosophy, as evidenced by the adage I cited, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

This morning I read a beautiful passage about prayer. Not a prayer to god or a guru. A prayer to Truth, asking that we come closer to it. This is what Buddhist mindfulness meditation is all about. Dissolving conceptual illusions and coming closer to how things really are. In a Buddhist term, "empty" of inherent existence, where all things are interconnected in a wonderful oneness.

Dualist religions like Sant Mat don't understand this, because they are focused on dividing reality into parts: good/bad, heaven/earth, soul/mind, etc. Believers in dualism can't help themselves. However, both scientific evidence and internal experience show that Buddhism is closer to truth than dualism is.

@ Brian - and what is this truth you are going on about??? That this is not your home and your body is not yours. Don’t get too shell shocked when you come face to face with it! To be fair I will then envy you but be happy for you also as you will be enlightened.

Someone asked the Buddha how they could be happy! The Buddha replied “ never be born”.

That is truth - I just wish I was detetemined to find it as you are. Master is really pushing you - he knows best how to clean a vessel. Luck you!

@Brian
"" the only genuine form of meditation is that proscribed by a few gurus in northwest India, and every other form is worthless.""

Brian says makes me remember Simon says ( Jimi Hendrix )
U Guys all :

Go up
Sit down

OK Brian
again so misunderstood

The only way out is the CROWN , the TOPof yr head
you can go there via the third eye

Breath is another door, lightyears lower
I would say : a trap

Finding a helping hand (Saint) is just fine
Just find somebody who ie already where u want to go

777


@ 777 you are right.

There are more documented cases where people have begun to lose their minds with this new age mindfulness.

Some have attracted entities to pester their family and loved ones in their own homes too.

The thing is Brian will be fine - he is Initiated so no harm will come to him (thank God).

He may even clear the demons out of one of the hells if he accidentally allows his consciousness to go there. The light from his master and him will be too great for them to take.

He is in a win win situation.

The Great Way has no gate;
 there are a thousand paths to it.

If you pass through the barrier,
 you walk the universe alone.

When we see truly, there is nothing at all.
 
There is no person; there is no Buddha.
  
Innumerable things of the universe
  
Are just bubbles on the sea.
   
Wise sages are all like flashes of lightning.

Hi Brian
I fail to see how you interpret my comments as disparaging Buddhism, or any form of focused attention on anything, even your breath. Which, when I focus on mine all I can think is 'Mint! Need Mint Now!"

Let me remind you that while I am a Satsangi, I'm not representing Sant Mat teachings, just my own experience.

On rare occasion I will reference Sant Mat, but not in the above comments.

So we have two things going on. First, my comments about your post, which you haven't actually addressed, second your comments about Sant Mat.

As for my comments which you acuse of dualism, that arises when you accuse other beliefs of being false, as you do frequently.

Brian, where there is no dualism, there is no right and wrong. It's all One. The here and now includes yesterday and tomorrow, and every 'there' imaginable.

Objectivity on the other hand, is all about dualism. Right and wrong, true and false.

A prayer to the One is not the same as a prayer to Truth. The latter is dualism.

@ Brian,.......what does your breath look like, when you watch it? How do you focus on some thing invisible, or even imagine air, .....unless you live in L.A. where you can SEE the brown polluted air your breathing? Or in New Deli ?

I have read where some Buddhists teach to breath in one nostral, then expell through the other nostral, etc, but focusing on any thing in the lower body below the Third Eye, KEEPS you IN your body. That’s why one of Kirpal Singh’s famous comments he always taught was,....” Rise above Body consciousness,”

I agree with 777 here, i.e, we leave the body thru the Crown Chakra, the Top of the head, and the Third Eye is the entrance or 10th Gate to the Exit .

I visited Lahsa Tibet, this Spring, and walked thru the Dali Lama’s Potala Palace. It was very difficult to breath in there, as what little Oxygen that was left inside, was polluted with incense burning, and candle wax odors.

Now, I COULD see my breath, in there, as the air was more polluted with particulate than in Beijing in January when they are burning coal for heat.

And speaking of fanaticism, Buddhists are insanely in to Idol Worship! I saw more versions od Buddha statutes than you could ever imagine, in Lahsa, all over, outside, and inside the Monastaries. Some were on hillsides, some sitting up, some laying on their sides.

In your Buddhist practice, would you, do you, prostate before Buddha Statues?

Is you do, then you are an Idol Worshipper. Prostration is a big part of doing Penance in many Buddhist Sects, especially in Tibetan Buddhism, which is Idol Worship.

Radhasoami Practitioners worship their Inner Master, ....at least that is the Goal. Of coarse, there still is some worship of outer items Masters have worn, etc., but Charan Singh discouraged participating in such Idolatry, as Gurinder does.

I have sat with the Buddhist Monks meditating in the Tiger’s Nest Monastary in Bhutan, as well as in Tibet, and listening to their Chants of the Om Mani Padre Om Mantras, while clanging their bells and blowing their horns , are all mimicking what Radhasoami Practitioners experience inside their own bodies, using the Surat Shabd Yoga Techique.

I have been inside Buddhist Temples in Hong Kong, Sri Lanka, in the Temple of the Tooth Monastary in Kandy, Sri Lanka, and all over Banchok, Thailand, Viet Nam, and mostly every country that has Buddhist Temples and Buddha Statues.

I conclude, they are ALL Idol Worshippers!

Again, you are fooling your self, if after 35 years of practicing Surat Shabd Yoga, and now are saying we are fanatics as compared to Buddhist Idol Worshippers, then, continue your In body consciousness, because you are destined to remain there, as long as you keep “ watching your breath.”

You might be able to B.S. Arm Chair Travelers and those who have never personally visited the countries that are Buddhists, but you can’t Bull Shit me.

But, different strokes for different Folks, as they say.

Cheers,
Jim

@ Jim - I would have loved to have wrote what you did above. But I don’t have the life experience or travels.

Learnt a lot from your post Jim. Thank you.

Hi Jim!
What a great travel log! Thank you. Who knew these traditional practices are still going on?

Yet I feel that in the depths of worship of their ideal so many distracting thoughts are eliminated, and in their focused prayer, as they are prostate before the feet of their beloved statue, amidst the scents of incense rising above the squalor, a priest might enjoy that gift of focus, that nirvana. They may be transported momentarily beyond the trappings of body and mind, between their distractions, beyond hate, untruth, arguments for this and against that, and all opinions, into a grand love, bliss.

I love your conclusion, Jim : 'Different strokes for different Folks "


"prostrate..." Not "prostate..." auto spill!

All this talk and defensiveness from satsangis.

There are so many Buddhist paths and no need to cling to any particular one, not like satsangis who cling to their beliefs in Sant Mat, although most of them are not particularly happy with the current guru, Gurinder and some of you are obviously still very Christian in your mindset.

Buddhism teaches how to deal with anger which is a mental state created by the mind. Look deeply into yourselves to see why you are being so self defensive.

You can’t beat mind with mind 😀

We can't beat the mind with mind but Buddha taught that the way to free the mind from suffering is through gaining insight and understanding.

Gaining insight is the practice of Mindfulness, being fully aware in the moment. I prefer this to the practice of worshiping a guru. Just simply dealing with my own mindful practice, not easy but very worthwhile imo.

@Spence,...I am Eclectic, and am facinated by all ways Lovers of God seekers of his/Her/Its merits.

As for why I spelled Prostrate , that was Brian’s Master reminding him that he still needs a Plumber to Roter Root his Prostate. :-)

I don’t use Auto Spell on my iPad or iPhone, because it has a launguage of its own, which is not me. I am me, and if you can’t understand what I try to explain, in clarity, with out burying my messeges in intellectual fodder, and important sounding words as A.P. does, thinking they, you, or other Spell Checkers do , to try to one up me, well,.....I guess we will have to leave it to the Sangacity of the Readers, as the late Michael Martin coined. But what real difference does a few mispelled words do, in what I write, considering the International Audience of readers we have here? Many don’t know the difference between shit or Shinola, as far as the English language is concerned, I’ll bet that less than 5% of the Readers here read all through the massive Drivel of Wordy Bull Patty that Appriciative Reader writes, which is mostly questions, from a blind intellectual Dummy asking the other blind for answers to the unknown. HaHa. Lift up your pant legs , before A.P. PuppIE waddles in, and pees all over them, while trying to impress you with big words. In contrast, I’ll bet at least 95 % of the Readers here read every word I write here,...including my mispelled words. :-)

As for travel, I have to admit, my attitude and impression of what I thought I knew, or was sure I knew from reading Books and Scriptures changed big time, after actually vsiting those countries, and spending time with the Locals of each country, in their places of worship. Since I am still interested in all Religeons and Sects, their places of worship are the first places I look for, in every new country I visit.

If you have ever vistited The “ Holy Land”, i.e. Israel, you will quickly discover there isn’t much Holiness there! Its a War Zone of haters, that isn’t even safe to walk the streets in Jeruslehem! And getting worse. While our Ship was docked in Israel a couple of years ago, a Rocket fired from the Gaza exploded close to our ship! The Captain quickly sailed away from that “ Holy Land.”

Countries we have toured since Aug. 2012, after retirement.
Countries We've Visited:
Andorra, Antigua, Argentina, Aruba, Australia, Bahamas, Barbados, Belgium, Bhutan, Brazil, Canada, Chili, China, Columbia, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cuba, Curaçao, Denmark, Egypt, Estonia, Fiji, Finland, France, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Vatican City (Holly See) Hong Kong, Iceland, India, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Malaysia, Malta, Mexico, Monaco, Montenegro, Nepal, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Palestinian Territories, Panama, Portugal, Russia, Saint Kitts, Saint Lucia, San Marino, Singapore, Saint Maarten, Slovenia, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Thailand, Turkey, Tuvalu, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, Uruguay, Vanuatu, Venezuela, Vietnam, United States, China, Tibet, Netherlands, Germany, Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slavakia, Switzerland, France, Luxembourg.

I always seek out and visit the Places of Worship, first.

Cheers,
Jim

Jim
The misspelling was mine, not yours.
I was correcting a typo I found free - reading my own comment.

Jen
I'm as much a Buddhist as a Satsangi. Nothing in what I wrote conflicts with the teachings of Buddha.

And your definitions of those teachings, along with your quotations are lovely.

Why my comment about the universal nature of mental focus of any kind as a path to happiness should upset you, Brian or anyone else is beyond me. It shouldn't.

People do see what they want to see. And all I can say is please re - read what I wrote.

@Spence,.....No, I mispelt Prostrate before you did, to ring Brian’s Bell. :-)
See,....” In your Buddhist practice, would you, do you, prostate before Buddha Statues?“

Jim

Although I'm seemingly change subject it's nor

After our last breath, we go were our heart was/is to stuff we love

Where that is, we will tell ourselves . . how clear will this be

Therefore the Bardo Todol , the Buddhist manual for the death
which is sung for 3 days for those who can pay, . .
Warns the defund
like all these "likes" like in FB or TW and they sing "Don't go there"

This is mainly and almost always for those who have affinity to the lower chakras
( in Buddhism often the belly - hence these swollen bellies
in christianize the heart hence these Jesus statues with wounded heart )

If one had meditated or love the 2 highest chakras, it's little
use to pay the monk_singers and even the Bardo Todol itself says
"don't go further - He who has that position of pure Love
may just proceed
He needs no warnings
Let's all bow deep for such a guy and let's ask his blessings

So Brian, Just see where your love is
and you know the outcome

What Arjuna said is true but Master used the term :"Abraham Tank" or stronger Bolo

You MUST have felt some love for Charan the first year - be a kind guy again
and everything will be fine
at your death
and wé will cry a little, not you. !

777

ps
Very important is a very straight vertebra, even when it hurts
No easy chairs please
last time I said this was to David Lane
who then disrupted conversations


"Where that is, we will tell ourselves . . how clear will this be""

BUT THEN WITHOUT THE USUAL HYPOCRISY

777

Hi Spence, you say "Why my comment about the universal nature of mental focus of any kind as a path to happiness should upset you..."

No worries Spence, I'm not upset at all, just doing my thang (now I'm talking Australian or Canadian whatever, can't help it) gotta laugh Spence, luv ya...

Hi Brian,


There are many subtle ways ego expresses itself. One is believing that we have found a spiritual, mystical, or religious path that is superior to all others... "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him."

I think those attitudes reflect the hubris of of disciples rather than
teachers. That's actually why the words of Great Master reported
by Ishwar Purii resonated with me:

    "Here's a practice that has worked for me. I hope it will for you
   as well. But, if you find something better, please tell me and I'll
   follow it too."

,
This morning I read a beautiful passage about prayer. Not a prayer to god or a guru.

I believe I also read Great Master advised that if "Guru" was
a turn-off, to re-brand him as a friend or guide. Nothing more.


This is what Buddhist mindfulness meditation is all about. Dissolving conceptual illusions and coming closer to how things really are.

The gift of mindfulness is enormous. It's what attracted me and I
have benefited from its practice. After many years though
I realize I'm totally overmatched by the depth and power and
obstinacy of the mind. The Dalai Lama has spoken of the eight
channels the mind speaks in. How do you dissolve conceptual
illusions without to "listening in " on the "mind's party line" (if you're
old enough to remember having a telephone party line).


Dualist religions like Sant Mat don't understand this, because they are focused on dividing reality into parts: good/bad, heaven/earth, ...

I think Sant Mat at its core focuses on the same mindfulness
Buddhism does. After all, it's a path of experience. Most of
our confusion comes from what we read i suspect. I. Puri
admits he never read any Sant Mat books until he started
getting confused questions about certain passages in the
literature.


Cool post Brian, interesting to note the first name of the book’s author - Anam - add an i and ‘voila’ :-)

First I’d like to point out that from what I’ve understood about ‘the Buddha’ is that ‘He’ was the first dude I heard about who was ‘enlightened’. One would think therefor that Buddha’s original teachings were surely about this and clearly some folk did and have got stuck in to realise what he was on about.

What I like about the quotes from ‘No Self, No Problem’ is how such information points to the simplicity of the practice. Simpler is generally better in my view - use the breath to quieten the mind, realise ultimately there is no self searching - suffering over, we’re already ‘it’.

If I view this in light of Sant Mat teachings I think some confusion continues to result from how the self is viewed. The self that falls off in Buddhism is the ‘I’ created and maintained by thought, and that which maintains a belief in separation. It’s my view that in Sant Mat (as I remember) such a realisation occurs at the level of causal mind before the ‘I am that’ realisation. Reflecting on this strengthens my belief that soul is different to self and is not a separate entity.
Further, given that Buddha was ‘enlightened’ then surely there is a commonality of experience here? Could it be just how its packaged?


I’ve added comment on some of the text you quote:

“A true spiritual path transcends all concepts and belief systems. It is not about reinforcing the mind's illusion of self as an identity”
- I agree. Belief and concept are held in place by the thinking process. Any process/technique that not only removes such but points out how such things reinforce each other is good. Ultimately all concepts have to be surrendered including those about path and guru.

“Holding on to conceptions such as "sacred" or "spiritual" while we are working toward transcending self-attachment is very subtle.”
- I agree. I also think some Buddhist approaches are really good at exposing the subtlety of ego e.g. thoughts like: my experiences prove that ‘I’ am on the right track, ‘I’m’ making progress, ‘I’m’ becoming a more ‘spiritual person’ etc

“Rather, nirvana is a great cessation of the separation between us and the truth. It is the mere acknowledgement of what has been the case all along. It is like waking up from a nightmare. It's a great relief to discover that nothing has to be done.”
Loss of separation=end of suffering. Using the word nightmare is a bit harsh in my view. However, looking at the rest of the words reminds me of what Osho has been harping on about re the Dera Baba’s Oneness teachings - very similar imo. I recall Sarah?? commenting in the past about seeing a whole lot of Buddhist statues in Gurinder Singh’s house? Is he into Buddhism?


“Sometimes the spiritual search itself prevents us from seeing the truth that is always with us. We have to know when to stop the search.”
- It’s the ‘I’ that searches and strives. When the I falls away who searches? 

“When self dissolves, everything is already awakened”.
- Makes sense to me 

“Many spiritual traditions teach us that we cannot be free in this lifetime. But even if they teach us that it is possible, they make it sound like it is some kind of a super attainment unlikely for us to reach.”
Dogma keeps us believing we are a separate entity. Keep thinking this and it will remain so.

I’ve been re-reading Rodney Smith’s latest book - ‘Awakening, A Paradigm Shift of the Heart’, looks like it has a similar theme. His style is very much to the point, punchy, and filled with wisdom imo - I think you would appreciate it Brian.

From Pg 48 [I’ve added the brackets] - ‘Once the thought is surrendered, the sense of self is left without an object and the “I” disappears, closing the gap [between thinker and thought]. When separation ends, so does the problem, and the desire to escape ceases. When there is nowhere to go, time and distance also come to an end and the abstract reality [created from thought] transforms itself into the formless awareness’

Best wishes

I do like “ some” of the Buddhist Teachings, ......such as the “ impermanence of all material creations”, and the “ compassion for all Sentient Beings.”

But, there are so many variations of Buddhism, that its difficult to find any particular Sect of Buddhists that are free of Idolatry or Vegetarians. Their Variety of Gold Foiled massive Buddhist Temples and Gold Foiled Buddha Statues, in the centers of starving peasant Villages , are a witness to those of us who have seen them in person and watched Worshipers buy flowers, wreaths and food to offer the Gold Foiled Buddha Statues.

https://matadornetwork.com/bnt/25-thailands-beautiful-temples/

I recently spent 3 hours in a Buddhist Temple in Thialand, that had a huge Temple with more gold than at the Vatican! An old black dog was laying on the ground dying, with hundreds of Worshipers standing before the big gold Buddah with their offerings of flowers and food they had hust purchased from the Buddha Bazzar. The dog was so weak, it couldn’t get up, or walk, as people were stepping over it, and a Policeman in a Black Uniform was kicking the dog trying to force it to move away from the crowd. Such compassion for Sentient Beings. Such hypocrites worshiping Idols!

Then, we must not forget how Buddhist Monks and Nuns beg for their daily food and sustenence, walking around with their Begging Bowls. At many of the Temples, I saw big fat monks sitting down eating food offerings from Worshipers and Seekers asking him questions. The Monks are lower on the food Chain in Tibetan Buddhism than the Lamas, who are like Masters , or just below Pope Dail Lama. But, as expected, the Nuns only real devotion is servicing the Monks. I sat right in tne middle of a Buddhist Nunnery in Lahsa
With my Wife, and meditated with the Nuns for 30 minutes. They then served us Tea and Bisquits. After we left the Monastery, my Wife kept arguing with me that there were no Nuns , as she thought they were Monks, because they all looked the same, with shaved heads and Clothing. I finally convinced her they were all females!

I also sat in a huge Buddhist Monastary Temple in Bhutan, ( not the Tiger’s Nest) and meditated as a Guest fir 30 minutes with a Group of 20, among 4 Buddhist Host Monks that invited us to hear a Buddhist Lecture given by a vistiting Tibetan Buddhist Monk from Tibet. Each of us was personally greeted by the Monk, as he placed a Silk White Scarf around our necks, bowed his head, folded his hands, and prayed we each would have long heathy lives. It was nice, and I enjoyed sitting with the Idolotors listening to the Guttural Omm Mani Padre Omm Chants, with Clanging Symbols and long Horns blowing! ( Confession: I was doing my Radhasoami Six Name Simran during the entire Service, as I did in every Buddhist Temple I visited.)

Jim Sutherland

Quote Brian:
for quite a few years I've shifted to a Buddhist style of meditation centered on awareness of the breath -- along with whatever else is happening within me and without me


Ah, welcome home, Brian! Welcome to simplicity, welcome to shedding baggage.

That’s one of the methods I myself follow. The specific tradition I’ve learnt my particular technique from, and consult for guidance on, is quite lean, as far as incidental beliefs, and fairly bereft of all mumbo-jumbo; and I personally weed out what little of the hocus-pocus there remains in the tradition itself, before breathing in (yes, pun intended) the fresh air of dogma-free Practice.

Since you’ve been practicing this for some years, no doubt you’re aware of this: but, while there are variations in the details of technique across individual schools, nevertheless there are two separate supports to this practice, each of which is essential to a balanced firming up of one’s consciousness and one’s attention.

You mention the first, Anapan -- which is, as you say, focus on the breath and everything around. This is basically a means of stilling the mind, and there are versions of the Buddha’s teachings, especially within Vajrayan, where visualization and Mantra practices -- not dissimilar to your RSSB Simran -- are used. Practices like these focus the mind, and, when fully successful lead allegedly to the intense concentration of Samadhi.

The second stage -- and bar the novice who’s just starting out, practitioners are advised to attend to both stages simultaneously -- is to use this (at least somewhat) heightened focus and, shifting one’s attention from the primary focus (of breath, or visualization, or mantra), to focus entirely on specifics (as prescribed in the individual practice, e.g., sensations within the body itself, or thoughts and emotions, etc.).

No doubt you’re aware of this, given your years-long practice, but I just wanted to emphasize the double-barreled nature of this practice. Focus on the one to the exclusion of the other is -- allegedly -- not conducive to balanced “growth”.

I mention this because Anapan, once you’ve gotten used to it, is very relaxing, and does lead to what may be described as bliss, which may end up taking attention and effort away from the Insight part. Apparently and allegedly, that is sub-optimal.

To Appreciate Reader:

Well, that's like, your opinion man.

'Appreciate Reader'.....

Ahh yes!!
Mindfullness or vipassana is fantastic!
It saved me from believing in stupid problematic idea's.
Because just be..follow breath and just feel/see what's happening is healing to me.
No expectations at all.
Perfect..relaxing and also going trough moments of pain fear etc.. and just sit trough it..
Like a mountain..or like water or whatever is there in the moment..

Jim says: "And speaking of fanaticism, Buddhists are insanely in to Idol Worship! I saw more versions od Buddha statutes than you could ever imagine, in Lahsa, all over, outside, and inside the Monastaries. Some were on hillsides, some sitting up, some laying on their sides."

Jim says to Brian: "In your Buddhist practice, would you, do you, prostate before Buddha Statues?"... "Is you do, then you are an Idol Worshipper"

Jim, why make such a big deal about... "worshipping Buddha Statues","Idol worship", "prostate before Buddha Statues".

What about Christians bowing and praying to the figure of Christ on the Cross?

You still sound like a Christian mentioning Jesus quite often, so why is it okay for Christians to wear, carry, kneel before and pray using a Bible and a Crucifix.

At least the Buddha statue is simply a figure sitting in a meditative posture and is not as repulsive as a figure nailed to a cross. Sorry, but I've never been able to understand why people are praying to victimhood and suffering, its probably to make them meek and mild and submissive. I know people believe that his suffering somehow "saved the world" but that didn't work out did it.

I prefer an image of someone who gave up his wealth and left his princedom to seek a higher path and achieve spiritual wisdom.


Hello, Jim.

I know you’ll be sure to see this comment of mine as too little too late, but I’d like to apologize to you for my previous comment, addressed to you on this thread.

At one level it was no more than what you deserved, and no more than your unprovoked and repeated insults coming home finally to roost. But at another level I find, on re-reading that comment, that I’m deeply ashamed at having written it. That it was you who provoked this exchange of personalized insults, while perfectly true, does not take away from my discomfort at having written it.

I’ve requested Brian to take down that comment.

Like I was saying to Spence just now, I realize that I may have gotten carried away with commenting here, especially of late, and may have ended up investing more of myself into my online persona than might be strictly reasonable or healthy. As such, a stepping back might be in order.

Allow me to leave you, then, with my apologies and good wishes.

Please don’t stop commenting here because of what I’d said to you. Those were my words, and I spoke for no one but myself when I said all of that. That has nothing to do with Brian or his blog.


@AP, thanks for the apology. You SHOULD be ashamed of your self , if you are young and have not been taught to respect your Elders, or if you really are a highly educated individual, as you attempt to present your self here, then you blew you cover wide open, and exposed exactly what lives inside your skin. You first blew it wide open with Jessie, but did say, much of what many of us were thinking, but had chosen to lay back until he became an obvious Racist, at least, against East Indians, but I attributed his bigotry against Indians as possible conflicts with his Indian Wife. But, at the end of the day, none of us should be judged only by our thoughts, but by our actions. Then, after Jessie, you opened a window aimed at me, than with your last Diatribe, unleased Holy Hell on me, just because I was facetious in comparing your debating tactics, ....or, more so, your questioning tactics that seemingly never seem to satisfy your thirst to squeeze the very last morsel of information and thoughts from any one who will hang with you. You act almost like you are writting a Book, but about a subject, i.e. Sant Mat, you don’t even appear to be interested in. You are so Wishy Washy, that you bounce from one thing to another, but with out sharing enough of your own personal experiences to even allow any one with experience to begin to help you. Osho and Manjit have more patient in dealing with you than I and Jessie have, but that does not mean that we are any less informed, experienced, or to be taken any lighter than they. They have their own Mojos, and I and others have ours, but different, not less inportant than any thing Brian Hines or David Lane writes, because they were once considered in RSSB Inner Core, but are now Exers. Actually, I am as much of an Exer from RSSB than any one, but I really was never a full blown RSSB Fundamentaist Devotee to begin with, as Brian keeps referring to any of us that must have not become full blown Atheist RSSB haters. I also want to address my calling Osho a “ Whore Master.” He advertised his own thoughts about certainly not thinking sexual promiscuity was imoral, especially after being involved with OSHO’s Orgy Cult. Plus, his fowl language using the F - - K word every other sentence, certainly should have never hurt his feelings at all to be called a Whore Master , because for him, I meant that as a Compliment, not a derogatory statement. I applauded him as a good looking sexy young man who was able to hypnotically seduce other, attractive females, who are willing to offer Osho Sex, either for free, or payment. But either way they offer it, promiscually, for free, or for money, they are definitly WHORES. So that would make Osho a Whore Master, as he carves another notch on his Score Keeping card of how many Who're he seduced. As for my comment to Brian regading his smoking Weed and drinking Alcohol, he posted several times, that he is presetly is smoking Weed and drinking Wine, .”..to relax” , so I was not insulting him for his 60s Doping days before he was initiated by Charan Singh. I mentioned to quit smoking Weed and drinking Wine, because I am 100% positive he, nor any ofher users will ever be able to rise above body consviousness to the Third Eye as Users. We ALL gave up being Users when we took the Vows. Again, thanks for your Apology, which I accept, but that does not mean I intend to begin a cozy friendship with a pdeudo Troll that poses as an intellectual, but is really an.........uncontrolled shooting from the hip acting Youngster that has never been taught how to repect their Elders.
I now know how Rodney Dangerfield feels! “I get no respect.”
It might surprise you, as per your comment “ no one reads your blog.”. I know exactly how many have read my blog, as blog owners are given their Blog Stats. I can assure you, Thousands have read my blog, many still read it, and look for new bolg posts, and many privately contact me, thanking me for the help I have given them. But my blog is my Archieve, nor a Forum , where Trolls will enter and destroy it, if I open it up to Trolls like Brian says I others are.
I do not post on any Forum I am monitored on, so this is my last post on Brian’s Blog, as long as he keeps it monitored. I write from my heart, exactly as my Inner Master instructs me to write, and I do not accept amy Moderators changing a word I write, unless its a typeo, which will be many.
Also, I hold no ill will against ANY Poster in Brian’s Church, as we are all Struggling Souls, as Charan always said. And I like Osho and Manjit, regardless of our little public spats.
Adios,Amigos. Happy Trails. ( until Brian opens the unmoderated doors back up to us Preachers. )
Jim Sutherland

Hi Jim
You wrote
"Adios,Amigos. Happy Trails. ( until Brian opens the unmoderated doors back up to us Preachers. )"

Have a thicker skin please.
And that also goes for Osho, Appreciative and Brian.
Have a skin so thick that you simply don't see insults at all. Because when you try to comment upon them, it becomes another insult.

No one lets fly their arrows of personal attack without some level of either threat or hurt.

And that does no good.

No one thinks they are wrong. That is the human condition. Trying to prove anyone is wrong accomplishes nothing.

All we can do is present a case, an argument. A portfolio of ideas, narrative, experiences. All anyone can take from this is a picture.

Whether that picture is credible, or applicable actually has nothing to do with the person who painted it. Can the artwork stand upon its own merits?

And is the art patron experienced enough to appreciate the work in context?

We aren't actually speaking with each other. We are creating our concept statements, reviewing the piece of artwork and writing our review for an invisible audience.

Adopt this mindset please. We can all create great works of conceptual art. They shouldn't be the same. Your boring.

Craziness is a positive asset in the creative arts, properly disciplined.

"they shouldn't be the same. THAT'S boring". Autospell.

Hi Spence,

Good advice, as a sensitive person, to "have a thicker skin". I've always admired how you never seem to be hooked or triggered by some very confronting comments.

You say: "Adopt this mindset please. We can all create great works of conceptual art. They shouldn't be the same. Your boring."

LOL, way to go Autospell...

I like what you say here: "Craziness is a positive asset in the creative arts, properly disciplined."

I really enjoy creating abstract paintings which probably shows my unusual mindset. Good to be a little crazy and at the same time having some discipline. Its all about balance.

Cheers
Jen

Hi Brian,

Just thinking about you and want to say that I am very grateful for your patience over the years and very much appreciate your kindness and fairness.

Now with you doing the monitoring, you don't have to post this on the blog, just a quick message of thanks.

Cheers
Jen

Quote Jim:

“ @AP, thanks for the apology. You SHOULD be ashamed of your self , if you are young and have not been taught to respect your Elders, (…) ”


Jim, you silly old coot. You couldn’t leave well enough alone, could you?

A “stepping back” on my part does not mean some kind of Trappist-like vow of (digital) silence, and nor should you have taken it to mean that I am somehow unable to come back here to set the record straight.

No, I do not respect you. You possess no quality that might elicit respect. I started out extending to you every bit of the respect that I naturally and by default extend to anyone I interact with, and treated both you as well as your experiences and beliefs and opinions with respect; but you’ve yourself divested yourself of that respect with your conduct, and with your repeated pattern of behavior. If you lived to be a hundred, or even a hundred and ten, not even then would you be deserving of any respect from me, not unless you changed your ways.


Here’s the thing: What motivated my comments the other day was not respect, but pity. I had clearly indicated as much. A Jesse is young (or at least, if not young, early middle aged), and evidently experienced in the ways of the Internet, so that someone like him will probably not have let my online takedown of his posturing here prey on his mind for more than a few hours, if that. You, on the other hand, are older; and I did not want you to go burst a vein or something in frustration or anger at my out-ing of your particular posturing. And so, in retrospect, and out of pity, out of compassion, out of not wanting to cause you actual hurt -- even if you were every bit deserving of it -- I offered you a way out, to save face.

What I was “ashamed” of, was at myself having ended up stooping to your level of mindless personalizations. What I was “ashamed” of was the realization that I was reduced to wasting my time exchanging meaningless and pointless comments with the likes of like you and Jesse, both of you clearly ill-bred louts that I would not dream of wasting my time with IRL. What I was “ashamed” of was that my commenting here seemed to have become compulsive, to the extent that I was reduced to unthinkingly raining (figurative) blows on a crazy old man -- which, no matter how well-earned those blows, is hardly a self-image that can be pleasant, once one becomes self-aware enough to catch oneself at it.


That “stepping back” I referred to? Sure, I stand by it: But it was simply a realization that I was spending anywhere between fifteen minutes to nearly an hour here on this blogsite of Brian’s most days -- which is probably more time than Brian himself spends here! -- and what is more, unlike in earlier times, that wasn’t time spent learning new things and understanding new perspectives. My time spent on this site seemed, over the last few weeks/months, to have devolved to largely sparring mindlessly with the likes of you. Only a fool wastes their time this way. That realization hit home the other day. Hence the “stepping back”, hence this self-imposed (and self-declared) cutting down on commenting here, while still not keeping away from spending some minutes browsing through the posts and comments -- or from coming up with an occasional comment when warranted, like now.


And you couldn’t leave well enough alone, could you, Jim? Your comment here, above, is perfectly disingenuous, but it is so pitifully stupid, and the disingenuousness so very transparent, that one does not know whether to laugh out loud or to commiserate in silence.


But here’s the thing. My interactions with you were not entirely without benefit, to me I mean. There is something I learnt from you after all, something I’m taking away from my time wasted on you, and for that I thank you, Jim.

Here’s what I got to learn from you:

I tend to treat others’ beliefs, as well as their self-proclaimed declarations of their beliefs, with trust. I tend to take them at face value. Well, interacting with you has taught me how that can, at times, not be very wise. There are times when it is reasonable to be hard-atheistic about individual claims, and when soft atheism is actually unreasonably ambivalent.

You, Jim, simply do not have any transcendental experiences. I am as sure of this as I can be of anything at all. No one can possibly have had such dramatic experiences as you lay claim to, and still have ended up so petty, so mean, so small-minded, so wholly clueless and stupid, and so obviously disingenuous, as you evidently are (at least basis your comments here).

As such, your past declarations of earth-shattering experiences? I call bull shit. You’ve been lying, plain and simple.

To be clear: I am not saying RSSB experiences themselves are bull shit. No, those I remain agnostic about, and am I willing, even now, to take them at face value. But your particular, personal experiences? Those I am perfectly willing to be hard-atheistic about.


Adios yourself, false prophet.

Quote Spence:

“Have a thicker skin please.
And that also goes for Osho, Appreciative and Brian.
Have a skin so thick that you simply don't see insults at all. Because when you try to comment upon them, it becomes another insult.”


I disagree.

Sure, having too thick a skin is dysfunctional. But to say that one should be wholly insensible to personalizations -- whether offered to oneself, or to others -- is to err by leaning towards the other extreme.

I expect a middle ground is what is healthy.

Simply ignoring others’ insults, not just one-off utterances but repeatedly -- and not just at oneself, but at others also -- is tantamount to giving serial abusers a free pass on their abusive behavior. Both IRL and here, online. It is tantamount to indirectly actually rewarding their abusive behavior.


“No one lets fly their arrows of personal attack without some level of either threat or hurt.

And that does no good.”


It does, actually, sometimes. Sometimes a dispassionate shooting of “arrows” is the way to go, in response to repeated offense on another’s part.

And nor does it always have to be “dispassionate”. There isn’t anything wrong in feeling and registering as well as acknowledging threat and hurt, when such is actually clearly intended by others. I’d say it isn’t very sane to remain wholly and literally unmoved by a punch to your face or by someone insulting you -- whether IRL or online -- unless, that is, you’re trying to parody the alleged and fabled equanimity of the Buddha!

And yes, like I was saying, it does a great deal of good, occasionally letting fly these “arrows” that you speak of. It stops the other person’s asshattery. When repeated gentle admonitions don’t work, sometimes returning a direct punch in the face works, and puts a stop to asshattery for good.

For evidence of this, you need see no further than my interactions with Jesse and with Jim. (Although I’m afraid I wasn’t ruthless enough in Jim's case, and my compassion for his white hair -- and possibly weak heart -- got in my way.)




As for your repeated refrain -- mentioned more than once, in other comments addressed to me in other threads -- of picking up “grains of truth” from amongst the chaff of others’ commenting?

That’s silly. Beyond a point, it makes no sense at all, not unless there’s some kind of a famine going around, as far as “truth”. The reality, especially in today’s connected world, is exactly the opposite.

Someone like Jim, for instance? No doubt even he will have some good things that one can learn and profit from. Obviously. But to get at them would be like trying to draw blood from stone.

Far wiser to simply stop wasting one’s time after a point. Which is not to say that one is saying there’s nothing there at all in him of worth, it is simply to say that the effort to get at that teeny-tiny load of “truth” simply isn’t worth it. (Brian said something like that himself, in his response to you in another thread.)

“Truth” and “wisdom” and “knowledge” aren’t in such short supply in this world, that you must necessarily go to the trouble of mining every last drop out of someone’s scant store of these things. When you find these qualities lacking in someone, it is usually wiser to move on to where one’s time is more fruitfully spent.


In this context, I’d like to refer you back to my comment addressed to you the other day. In fact to two comments, mine addressed to you the other day (in the “Comments are back to being moderated” thread); as well as mine addressed to Jim just now (in this very thread, and currently in moderation Bardo, waiting there to see the light of day).


Do you agree with the actual point I make there, in both of those comments, about why I’m now finding myself hard-atheistic about Jim’s particular “spiritual” experiences? Do you agree with the reasons I offer, basis which I’m saying Jim’s a liar and a charlatan, as far as his copious outpourings about his spiritual visions? If you don’t agree, then I’d be interested to hear your counter-arguments. If you believe my conclusion from my interactions with Jim warrant re-examination, I’ll be happy to do that, provided you can give me reasonable refutations for my own arguments and good reasons for such reexamination.

You would remember, from our past discussions, my preference for a soft atheistic stance over a hard atheistic stance. My key take-away from my discussions with Jim is that there are times, individual instances, where soft atheism is clearly wrong, and hard atheism is the reasonable position to take. Even when the “proof” isn’t cent per cent ironclad.

After all, my reasoning around Jim’s visions cannot be really be thought of as wholly ironclad, can it? And yet, I’d say we can be reasonably sure of the spuriousness of his visions, as reasonably sure as we can be of anything. After all, we do not know, either, not for sure, that the law of gravity does not come with an expiry date of December 31, 2018, and that come New Year 2019 suddenly gravity won’t start repelling instead of attracting; and yet it would be foolish to stay ambivalent about this, despite lack of ironclad proof.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Your Information

(Name is required. Email address will not be displayed with the comment.)

Welcome


  • Welcome to the Church of the Churchless. If this is your first visit, click on "About this site--start here" in the Categories section below.
  • HinesSight
    Visit my other weblog, HinesSight, for a broader view of what's happening in the world of your Church unpastor, his wife, and dog.
  • BrianHines.com
    Take a look at my web site, which contains information about a subject of great interest to me: me.
  • Twitter with me
    Join Twitter and follow my tweets about whatever.
  • I Hate Church of the Churchless
    Can't stand this blog? Believe the guy behind it is an idiot? Rant away on our anti-site.
Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...