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September 04, 2018


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Now Brian - you are on to something! Will make an investigative reporter of you - I knew it.

Money talks and Guru!

Playing the victim. Too sad for words. Seriously...the power of money to destroy character.

The kingdom is being razed, as if by a bulldozer. Probably the bulldozer of Mahraji and Sawan Sihgh.

The folks most bewildered, who will say "How did this happen!" with the highest disbelief, will be the the principles involved: Gurindar, the Singh brothers, Sunil and Subnam.

They will be the most amazed and incredulous that this could happen to them.

That's what makes lawsuits.

@ spencer - hello sir - hope you are well?

Take it you are on about Shivinder?

Hi Arjuna…

Yes, Pride goes before a fall.

But it's all good.
When they accept their responsibility in these crimes of theft their chance to return to Spirit will begin. And that's the good news.

But along the way they will all, and it appears Gurindar is in that 'they' will need to acknowledge this is wrong, and it has happened on their watch over two decades.

Right now they think the problem is the softening real estate market, and that their intentions were good.

But there is hope as facts come forth that they might regain a shred of integrity.

It might be their first taste of it.

You're so wrong about Donald Trump. The media obsessing about nothing burgers that every president does isnt true scandal.

Hopefully we can start jailing fake journalists, many of whom are on the payroll of foreign entities which we're not supposed to name.

About this Singh bros debacle, it's just standard India stuff. They're the most tribal people on earth, but also have very little loyalty. This will end badly for RSSB in the end if what I suspect to be true really is. RSSB isn't disconnected from these businesses. It's all one thing.

@ Jesse hello 😀

I’m Indian and not tribal 😀and I have loyalty.

Hi Jesse:

You wrote:

" it's just standard India stuff. They're the most tribal people on earth, but also have very little loyalty."

Really, you conducted a study?

Could this be sort of...hold on a minute....Prejudice?

Many Presidents do engage in scandal and theft also, and it's a good thing when it comes out. It actually reflects well on society trying to raise the standard of ethics and behavior. It's a good thing, however painful.

Presidents of the United States are not much different than ordinary folks.

When you have someone that doesn't engage in such things, that is also nice to see.

We all have feet of clay, and should be held responsible for our actions. That is the basis, however uncomfortable, for progress.

"Really, you conducted a study?"

When speaking about a culture, one is obviously dealing in generalities. If you don't think that Indian people IN GENERAL, not every individual Indian obviously, you're lying to yourself.

Go to India 10 or 20 times, work for Indians, read the opinions that indians express about themselves all over the internet. Or if you want studies, try the international transparency index, Spencer. Do anything but express feigned outrage and virtue signalling.

Reality is what it is. Hurt feelings won't change this.

Hi Jesse:

You wrote:

"Reality is what it is..."

Which version?

i agree Trump needs to go! Cretin of a human being !

He is a human faeces in action but even he serves a purpose in that we must not be like him.

We see in others what we are ourselves. All the guru haters and Trump haters you are projecting onto them what you really are and it seems very ugly to me. Judge yourself before you judge others. Why so much spite and glee in your judgments. Why do people love to name and blame. I don't like to use this word but yep, its all grandstanding and self-righteous EGO. Is this my ego thats speaking? No, I think its my compassion for others, we are all imperfect human beings and reading the gleeful put downs have triggered me. There is too much hate in the world.

Well Jen, whats the difference between a hater and the hater of other haters? Nothing.

And if I see someone as a murderer, does that make me a murderer?Because that's what your theory states. That we're not able to analyze or use discretion, but rather everyone simply projects all attributes onto others.

Sounds fake.


This churchless church has become a place of worshiping anger and hatred. Very sad. What happened to taking the 'middle road' Brian. Over and out.

I’m really missing the Sikhs right about now... they must be amused by all of this as they are ardent RSSB haters. And yes, hate is ugly. But isn’t it OK to hate what is wrong? I can’t love it...

Hi Jen!

I'm with you on no gloating. Whatever Gurindar, Movinder, Sabnam, Sunil and Shivindar have done, that could have been you or I.

Money does strange things. Land speculation does strange things to a person's values and ethics.

And the last person to figure that out is usually the one who has succumbed to "the negative power".

Hard to imagine this could have happened to Gurindar. Impossible for most.

And it is only because of the mountain of information that has been generated, and the number of years this has been going on, that I must conclude this isn't right.

Now, if Gurindar and the others realize what they've done, repent, pay their dues, and never place themselves as authorities over others, especially in such matters as ethics, they are welcome to join the club.

We are all sinners here, and that's OK, so long as we are all working on personal progress.

I think Brian would agree that under those circumstances, they would be welcome here at the Church of the Churchless to share their own views on life, spirit and morality.

In short, Jen, they can do no worse than you and I. The issue is taking a job they are unqualified for, and hiding truth. It's not necessary.

So, if they are sinners, they are closer now than ever before in getting clean.

And to paraphrase great Master and Maharaji, you can't even meditate if you can't get clean with your own conscience.

So, no blame, but yes, full responsibility please. That's step 1.

Jen, the melodrama is a bit over the top.
Nobody is worshipping hate. Hate is just a natural emotion like any other and people express their hate for various things.
Hating the likely corruption of this guru guy or even the man himself isnt wrong. Hating a politician isn't wrong.

These people are out stealing money and claiming to be gods. Hate all you want or don't, but don't pretend like someone else who doesn't speak about flower power and universal love is a uniquely evil person or that you've transcended the desire to judge.

I think DJT is the best president in my lifetime, yet I couldn't care less if people express negativity about him. I just think their analysis is usually utterly and terribly wrong.

Hate away. It's natural. You're doing it as you pretend not to.

Sarah, within the various factions of Sikhism there are about 500 of these dynasty feuds going on at any particular point in time.
They might be amused, but their problems are far bigger and there's a lot more violence they have to deal with than in the RSSB feuds.

Jen, I don't know what you are referring to when you speak of hate on this blog. Yes, the comments are rough and tumble. That's the way it is on almost all social media. But my posts aren't hateful. I do my best to speak the truth as I see it.

Maybe you view the fact that truths are being revealed about Gurinder Singh and RSSB as hateful. I disagree. The truth is never anything other than the truth. If you see hate in truth, it isn't in the truth, but is coming from somewhere else.

What's happening is the slow and steady dismantling of the Perfect Master aura that really needs to go. So this is a good thing. Gurinder Singh and RSSB insiders have been engaged in behavior that is clearly unethical and may even be illegal. We'll just have to wait and see how the legal case filed by Shivinder Singh plays out.

This is the first tine in the history of RSSB that a guru has been implicated in such shady dealings. So, again, it's a good thing that people are being exposed to the truth about Gurinder Singh Dhillon and his family. Read the comments by Spence Tepper on this blog. He's been doing a great job explaining the scam that the Dhillon family and those who supported them took part in.

Look, I realize how painful it can be to learn that a religious leader isn't what they were claimed to be. The Catholic Church has gone through scandals, as have most other religions. Now it is RSSB's turn. When someone is put on a pedestal and worshipped as God in Human Form, it is inevitable that eventually the truth will come out about the RSSB gurus.

Anyway, it's better to see things as they are, rather than as how we'd like them to be. Why? Because we really can't make much progress in any area, especially spirituality, if we aren't grounded in reality.

Arjuna, I just saw your comment.
Of course I'm not saying any individual of any specific characteristics.
My point was that, for reasons unknown to me, in India and the diaspora there is a lot more of this kind of family drama that involves various brothers and cousins in a business deal who all end up ripping each other off. I've literally never met an Indian who didn't have this going on in his family, and I've known hundreds of Indians and married into a Sikh family. And yes, there have been numerous shady things happening in my in laws family involving familial drama, money and property.

On the flip side, many individual people I've met in India were some of the best people I've ever met in my life. This includes many friends, my wife and some of my brothers in law. But they don't change the general fact of the current state of Indian culture that my ex cult leader also seems to be part of.

Thanks guys for the replies. I suppose leaving the spiritual path I have followed for over 50 years is a big deal for me. At times I feel some peace of mind when I try to follow the 'middle path' but as a sensitive being its very difficult when there is such a division when everyone I know (except Jesse) is a Trump hater, even my family, so now I feel like a recluse more than ever. The negative power Kal (the mind) is in full force and I'm trying to avoid the victim mentality and to keep my balance which is not easy.

I like what Brian said and will remind myself of this: "What's happening is the slow and steady dismantling of the Perfect Master aura that really needs to go. So this is a good thing."

Look, I realize how painful it can be to learn that a religious leader isn't what they were claimed to be. The Catholic Church has gone through scandals, as have most other religions. Now it is RSSB's turn. When someone is put on a pedestal and worshipped as God in Human Form, it is inevitable that eventually the truth will come out about the RSSB gurus.

The mystic path is not about "worship" or "putting on a pedestal"
but about mindfulness. With that comes internal discipline and

How quickly we're ready to convene the Kangaroo Court though.
No one's been indicted- not the nephews or Gurinder either that
I'm aware of- but we're ready to have 'em all doing a perp walk
along with pedophiliac priests.

That conflation speaks volumes about us. Ah, but that's not
enough though. With a flourish worthy of Trump's vile tweets and
his accusation of a "deep state", there are hints of revelations
("truth" it's called here) about other RSSB "gurus".

We're all flawed human beings and I think we should be a bit
more careful declaring something to be the "truth".

"The mystic path is not about "worship" or "putting on a pedestal"
but about mindfulness. With that comes internal discipline and

Not according to most people we call mystics, and most certainly not according to RSSB.

Jen wrote: ".. as a sensitive being its very difficult when there is such a division when everyone I know (except Jesse) is a Trump hater, even my family,"

-- I am not a Trump hater. To me he is a breath of fresh air even if it is a little hot at times. There are a lot of lies and distortion in the media which is largely responsible for the tremendous division in society and what Trump is about.

You wrote: " I suppose leaving the spiritual path I have followed for over 50 years is a big deal for me."

If you live near Melbourne, see if "Sailor" Bob Adamson is still giving talks (He's getting up there in age. Maybe he croaked). Or, read his book "What's Wrong with Right Now?.. unless you think about it". He discusses a simple, grounded approach as to how things are. Clue: He was influenced by Nisargadatta. This might help you put aside your feelings of loss now that RSSB is being exposed. You need a different kind of "spirituality".

Hi Dungeness

The FDA already rendered their verdict. And reconfirmed it.
Luthra and Luthra already concluded their audit.
The board at Fortis already confirmed the basis for their decision to fire the singhs.

All this is now history.

And RSSB funds and collateral were in the middle of it. Money diverted went to companies held by Sabnam, Gurindar 's wife, each with the same tiny storefront address somewhere she never visited.

One only needs to read for oneself. And think for oneself.

And ultimately, one must do that anyway, right?

Gurindar isn't the path. The physical Master isn't the real Master.

But this man acted, who put the younger Singh on a stage to give Satsang at the Dera, setting him up as a moral authority, does not have the moral capital anymore to do so.

Whatever he is losing in money,
Much more was lost in moral stature.

He became bankrupt the moment he decided to use RSSB holdings and sale of Ranbaxy to buy his way into hospital land and the purchase of a dozen businesses in his wife's name.

No anger, no emotion at all. I'm numb.

But my judgement isn't.

I wonder if this fallout is real or just another well thought out ploy to drag the ongoing legal cases to eternity.


You've been played by the mind,
being amongst the 20 disciples who lost faith on Master when HE visited brothel.

The mind unless expanded to the Causal,
can not understand the proceedings of the True Master.
Even if all of His disciples goes astray, He doesn't care,
HE has to proceed to do what's better for this planet - to tackle the forthcoming apocalypse,
which is going to be bad, very very bad and will demand a lot - for what HE is preparing for.
The energies of this physical world, who are in charge of their individual powers, does not permit that to be done in any easy fashion, for they can not understand the bigger Cause - the causes of the cause.

Somewhere else you also wrote this shame will always be with His name,
as if HE cares for your shame, HE doesn't.

The Pilot/Captain of the ship doesn't care what the first time voyagers feel during the tidal waves about the ship OR about the captain.
HE continues to drive the ship at maximum efficiency towards the completion of eternal goal,
even ignoring the ongoing discomforts of the passengers - as HE knows, it's all temporary.

And I feel HE's been congratulated by the foregone Masters on how beautifully HE is carrying the task in midst of this tough world.

Don't think that a Master is answerable to a disciple. That's the cheapest trick by the mind a disciple fell into due to his ego and logical thinking.
HE is not answerable to you or anyone here on this board,
and thus HE will not answer. The progression of this world's turbulences will.

Truth will prevail.
Not the version of material deeds of this physical world,
the Truth that which is the Word, that which is the Shabd - will prevail.

I remember the incident of bunch of very advanced satsangis who receives His inner darshan,
sitting in front of The Great Master,

And HE asked in happiness: "What do you want"
they said:
"Faith - always in your feet,
this mind is a great betrayer,
it can make anyone go astray with it's tricks.
Please always bless us with the faith in YOU and to never fall prey to it."

I wish courage and Master's grace to everyone to be capable enough of handling the mind games.

I'm starting to think that One Initiated is a master troll, which I'd respect if true. Playing internet mind games is a great and healthy hobby. But he posts way too much insanity for it to be real. The things he says are really, really, really crazy and stupid. No healthy normal person could say that stuff and believe it.

Sandeep, you said "I wonder if this fallout is real or just another well thought out ploy to drag the ongoing legal cases to eternity."

That's a good point to consider as far as the Dhillon and extended family's strategies are concerned, but for those who are ex members or skeptics of RSSB it only makes the family look worse morally.

Reading Spence and Jen's accounts of being challenged emotionally by the revelations concerning their guru makes me think that my hyperbole may have been remiss to a degree.

While I maintain the view that the entire spectrum of radha soamism is cultish and fantastically dishonest, I also can see how it may have been easier for me to leave without much anxiety because I only stayed around for a few years. 30 or 50 years of anything is hard to let go of. Your entire identity gets wrapped up in the religion at that point and it becomes your social circle and family to a large extent.

If this thing all falls apart, maybe ex sangis could start their own meditation groups sans the master. Might be a healthy way to maintain the good aspects while discarding the bad.


Normal is one who finds himself in tune with the norms of this world.
Spirituality is outside this physical world - in terms of frequencies.
The frequencies above (which are here only) - are so high - they can not be perceived unless we tune ourselves to those excessively high frequencies.
Could only be done by meditation and listening to the Sound - slowly and slowly - the antennas will start tuning to those frequencies - and the explosion will only happen with Love - when every pore of your body is filled with the pure love - it will burst and you will enter.

Those frequencies, with which each particle of astral is vibrating, is beyond the comprehension of the scientists - thus they call any such experience as abnormal or hallucination - it's not in their norms of this world... and they can not reproduce it.

If once you will attend a spiritual hurricane.
you will no longer find yourself normal, indeed.

Hi One Initiated!

I thought as you did before.

And I can tell you some fine miracle stories about Baba Ji.

But the fact remains he chose to divert church funds through his cousins.

So you have two Baba Ji's and evidence for both. One with immense spiritual power, and the other, a hunger for material wealth and a belief in his own infallibility. A belief he imbued in his cousins.

That is evident in their lack of responsibility for their actions at Ranbaxy as well as Fortis.

I have no bias against Baba Ji.

I have nothing but love for him.

But the same criteria for right and wrong which applies to you and I also applies to him.

Is one thing to build platforms or kiss prostitutes. None of those things are a breech of law, none is immoral, none is a violation of ethics.

We have all taken a vow to live a moral life, and that must apply to Baba Ji as well.

It does. Diverting funds for personal gain is a clear violation. Had it been one time we might have said it was a misunderstanding. But this has been going on for many years.

Do make your own decision, but make it an informed one please.

Baba Ji is a powerful soul. But he is not a Sat Guru.

I just remember the first time I visited the Dera in Feb 2013. The Sikhs—Sikhs representing several different sects—came to the Dera for a meeting with GSD about the destruction of the old Guru Nanak building/gurdwara. They were furious with Gurinder and RSSB. They, The Sikh Nation, actually declared war on RSSB. And of course he held a large luncheon meeting for them at hostel 6... I guess GSD thought if the Sikhs were going to attack, best start with the Westerners. Anyway, it was the first time The Sikh Nation declared war on someone/group and didn’t go to war. So, Gurinder must be more charming than I give him credit for. However, he was visibly shaken. He actually looked scared as he led them around. Then he gave them a tour of the Dera but wouldn’t let the Dera tour guide go with him. He went alone with them. Well... other than the driver of the bus. They fully intended to destroy him. I often wonder what saved his life. I’m actually thankful that he lived long enough for me to realize he was a fraud, but now I’m sad that he’s around misleading people, taking advantage of the poor elderly who work there 6 days a week—physically demanding work that people well into their 70’s shouldn’t be required to do just for “Darshan”. I spent time with some of these people in their homes. And the accommodations of the “lower caste” jobs are like slums. They tell a completely different story to what we Westerners have been fed.

All for “His Darshan”. My husband still believes in GSD and that he’s just a modem guru—a guru for these times. He refuses to believe the “fake news” media about him. I finally told my husband that if I looked GSD in the eyes, I’d be giving him Darshan! 😂 😂 So ridiculous.

Hi One

Maharaji taught me a very special guideline to use when having to determine the truthfulness of something or someone. In basic words, "Truth Invites Inspection."

I have found it a very helpful rule. Perhaps it may be of help to you as well.

Sarah, Sikhs are constantly 'declaring war' on something or someone. It's one of the tenets of the religion. Go to youtube right now and look up "Gurdwara fight" and you can watch them violently attack each other in their own temples for hours on end.

And they shouldn't talk about destroying things. They spent 100 years destroying important parts of their own history because a British backed sect decided that the majority of Sikh history was what we'd call heretical.

The Akal Takht put out a hukamnama, which is what Muslims call a fatwa, declaring that all deras must be removed from Punjab in 2009. They were unable to muster any broad support because nearly everyone is part of a Sikh offshoot at this point and deras are the vast majority. The reason I say this is because it wasn't Gurinder's charm that protected him, but that those Sikh leaders know where they stand and wouldn't do something stupid that would harm them more than their enemy.

@ Spencer,....it takes a lot of guts to admit GSD isn’t what you thought he was, and sharing your very extensive research and reasons for reversing courses and no longer pimping GSD and RSSB, Truth and honesty always prevail, but some times the end dosen’t come until violence breaks out. I hope it is all Fake News, regarding the financial stuff, but it looks very real. But even if it all turns out unreal, Gurinder’s infatuation with sexual thoughts ARE real, because I witnessed it in person, which busted my RSSB balloon in a single POP, which didn’t need as much pricking as your ballon needed to POP. Sorry for your loss, but we still have Charan and Jesus,......so our Marks are tatooed permanetely at our Third Eye.

We need to pray and meditate for the survival and Spiritual transition to Safe Havens for all of the drowning GSD Desciples jumping off his sinking ship that is reeking of shit more and more as more of the scandels unfold,

But, as I said in one of my recent posts, every Marked soul should not fear, as they will be transitioned to where ever their Karma has predestined for them.

Jim Sutherland

hi Spence,

"And I can tell you some fine miracle stories about Baba Ji."

You can tell stories, What I am telling is not a story,
it's a first hand experience with HIM - and not a once upon a time,
it's always and also in each and every live discourse that I attend.
And that is realised every time, HE is the true Sant SatGuru.

You are not agreeing right now because you've not been through what I've.
All your judgements are just outward based on material world proceedings
and not inward.
Had you been in contact with Hazur Maharaj Ji, you would have been able to confirm,
which now I am sure you are not.

Thus essentially what all you are explaining and were explaining
the theories and not based on your own experiences.

"Is one thing to build platforms or kiss prostitutes. None of those things are a breech of law, none is immoral, none is a violation of ethics."

Ethics and laws are all made by the fake govt. of this world.
In this current world, every democratic country and every democratic govt. is a fake govt.

Otherwise there is so much wealth in this world, and still people are dieing with hunger.
What are the govts. doing to balance the wealth amongst all the humanity ?

I noticed people blame the same thing on the Master - but they don't realise
what a tremendous job is being done at Beas for serving free 3 meals daily in the 100s of millions count
without asking any question to anyone - is not a small thing.
I challenge anyone who blames it otherwise, should visit the Langar facility.
I am ready to accompany him to every step and they shall prove the words to me and I shall do the same.

Master does what is right for humanity and neither for pleasing the govts.
nor for the suitability for the shrunken minds of the disciples.

SatGurus are the true governing authority of all the realms,
however in this physical plane as a human being they remain in composure, and does follow the natural ways.
If someone wants to see what a SatGuru is -
the worst possible thing is to see and judge His physical presence - which is also amazingly soothing and beautiful.
The Inner Grandeur is beyond the description of words - and HE isn't shy inside.

On the Inner Planes HE is always in HIS full majesty.
And unlike here, the lucifer and all his agents always bow to HIM.
And this is all I am saying about our loving Baba Gurinder Singh Ji.
Upon realisation most people here (mostly at the time of their death beds),
will want to cry endlessly for their misdeeds and doubts - HE is kind to forgive all.
After being forgiven, they will want to cry even more for being forgiven.
And that will bring amazing speed to the soul.

A True Master's ship never sinks,
those who are jumping off - are just elongating their path.
The will all still be fine at the end, but along with bearing their own created troubles.

As said by the seniors: "Every inch of every centre will be used as shelter"
Most of the exers are just going to wait and watch,
ending up wasting numerous years of this precious lifetime.
In fact many of the aged ones are going to die and reborn by that time,
they will only realise the realities at the time of their death.
Many will witness it live.

"Do make your own decision, but make it an informed one please."

There isn't any decision to be made. It was already decided for me by HIM.
Not only you, even if ~7 Billion+ people of this world will point fingers to the Master,
it doesn't matter to me - because what I've been through - they have not.

You said: "But he is not a Sat Guru." - how do you know that ?
Did Jesus or Hazur told you that ? - No.
That's only because you've not yet realised it.
And that you are on the judgemental side based on the material proceedings.

One way is that the statement will be validated and make sense
if you are a Sat Guru, which you are not -
hence your statement is completely invalidated.

Spirituality is called the art of pure subjectivity.
It's said that it's purity makes it a view of truth or reality that is free of any individual's biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings.

People call it the art of finding ultimate depth in life. Or, the art of escaping suffering, by embracing what you can't change.

How the hell does Gurinder's involvement, make anything Spiritual?

@ Sage : +1
@ Jesse : +1

Sent from Economic Times Mobile App.(Download Now):

And the contempt of court continues

"If once you will attend a spiritual hurricane.
you will no longer find yourself normal, indeed."

One, I think you're just trying to overcompensate for being a bit dim. You don't know anything about anything, so you cling to all sorts of poorly constructed and vague ideas about mysticism because it makes you feel special.

Reminds me of those Hindutva sites where everyone is embarrassing themselves and making claims that NASA stole their space travel concepts from the Vedas. They have no mind to comprehend the world they live in, so to make up for their lacking, they attribute others' successes to their own magic. It's sad to me.

As I've told you repeatedly, were you traveling the astral world (you're not) then you wouldn't be here arguing about it with people who disbelieve. At minimum I'd suspect your otherworldly vantage point would offer the wisdom not to engage in things you're so far above, but you're not wise nor are you positioned in the astral plane as you pretend.

Give it up. You could worship cows, Jesus, or the plate of dal sitting before you, and it would offer the same results as worshipping Mr Business. And those results are vanity, dishonesty and nothing good.


You only have to wait for the death of this physical body of yours.
You do not have any other hope left for yourself. You are in a sad situation.

You will have to live all these years in the spiritual draught,
you will still enjoy this draught due to your ego,
It might be possible some life event might change you again,
if it does, be courageous to onboard again and inform all others here.

The very elders exers are in much better situation than you,
they will get blessed much earlier than you.

@ One Initiated : I have more than a few elder ex-Sats in my family who are in a horrible situation with absolutely no Beas-blessings whatsoever. Who is coming to bless them ? They are in a sad situation. You just can't stop with your dogma and can hardly engage in anything that goes beyond the hocus-pocus of the loophole infested Mat.

And, this isn't about age, it's about understanding ... or the lack of.

... the Brothers were still young when at the Ranbaxy restructuring following Parvinder Singh's death, Davinder S. Brar was unceremoniously relieved. Brar was a good man and this was the turning point in the history of the Singh family. In the succession drama that followed, GSD assumed the role of the " God Uncle " who, rather responsibly, inducted the Brothers into their deserving roles. The rest, like they say, is history.

GSD has proved that both Guru and Gurinder, like two good fairytale characters will always be loved by the Beas evangelicals. Well, I mean it's funny, in a bizarre, sad way that the Brothers couldn't take control of their lives and were led astray for years by a man who had no real business acumen or foresight. Were the strutting little Singh roosters hitching their wagon to the star of Sach Khand ? More like the Death Star from Star Wars. Goes to show that when you collude with someone corrupt, you're going to end up covered in shit.

What were the Brothers thinking ?


"I have more than a few elder ex-Sats in my family who are in a horrible situation"

Exactly, if you continue your spree of abusing the Masters,
you and the likes will end up in same and even more horrible situation.
If you are happy during the deeds, be ready and happily accept the fruits too - be it bitter and painful.

You have examples live in front of you, still not taking lessons and following same mistakes.

Their horrible situation will only end with the end of their body.
The Master who initiated them and the current Master, both will come.
You shall spend time with them very closely in their ending time,
they might give you some hints, those hints can change your life - only if you are in acceptance mode.

They will only feel blessed once their current episode ends,
they will lead much better satsangi life in their next birth.

"if you continue your spree of abusing the Masters,
you and the likes will end up in same and even more horrible situation."

"They will only feel blessed once their current episode ends,
they will lead much better satsangi life in their next birth."

Sant Mat totally doesn't use threats of horrible things and torture to keep its followers in line.

Just don't dare notice that turbaned godman selling deadly medicine to epileptic children so that his cow of a wife can gain status in her community of corrupt bollywood nobodies. You notice his crimes, and you suffer severe poverty and illness, and are born as a worm next time. It's that simple, slave.

Stay in line or else!

Spence. You have been a stalwart defender of RSSB and Gurinder until the current revelations. But now that the evidence is clear, you admit and accept that Gurinder is flawed and not a Sat Guru. I respect that.

One Initiated, you are full of excrement. Your post above on Sept. 4 at 9:33pm is proof of that. Jesse appears to share this point of view and explained why with much more intelligence at 7:47 AM above.

@ Jesse : ROFTL ... let's go on a date the next time you are in New York, whatever you like to drink, on me.

Save whatever you have after finalizing all debt and dues,start a fresh god will help them to regrow

Everything should be new ,new you new name new broder vision ,you people they people have not done any sins being born in this family , things as soon as the troubled water leaves worry is a Breach of faith bad experiences are just lesson new road is open only thing is how to direct driving

@ One Initiated : I'm done with your dogma which isn't even worth replying to, even Gurinder would refuse to read the codswallop. I seriously suggest you go to Satsang and get some updates from the Guru himself.

Omg so much anger and venom between some of you 😀

I fear a lot of you would be able to give me a good pasting if you ever stepped in the boxing ring with me. I’d be knocked out cold by some of you lot!

Chill man!!
@ Jim - salute and I hope all of us exerts who were intiated by Gurinder get saved. And yes you I know you have advised me what to do already 😀

Salute Jim


That's correct, as I said, you are left with no other option
than to just wait and see and experience it yourself.

As a brother Satsangi, my part is only to alert you with the misdeeds.
It's upto you and your thoughts how to perceive them and proceed further.

With every abusive comment, you are just piling yourself with more stuff to settle
and lengthen your path.


Jesse, has his own karma and you have your own.
Your appreciations of rotten comments doesn't matter for anyone else,
it can only rot your thoughts further.

@ Bombay blonde - hello Princess 😀

Did you exers relatives who are in a bad state start to eat meat and drink ?????????????

@ one intiated - I agree with you on the sufferings that followers - but as long as we walk true that we haven’t hurt anyone - we can be fine! In the divines eyes.

I’ve seen exers covered in maggots , being hit by invisible entities, seeing all types of things which are rather unnatural and most importantly two asked their family members to keep me there in their hospital wards as they was something else in with us - but left when I went in. The suffering I saw is nothing but a mere taster - most of this lot will ask for evidence loooool. Oh they will get it alright - first hand! Their intelluctiak will be pickled at that stage as they won’t even know if they have shit themselves. This is a taster 😑

Usually it’s a bad death - all I saw were shadows - it’s all fun and just chill bro.

You talk about things as you have seen them first hand as have I. I hear the crowd shout “we want evidence”. It’s a coming baby loooool


"even Gurinder would refuse to read the codswallop"
Yeah, as if you know about Masters,
when not even knowing the causes of the horrible condition of your family members.

Better know and monitor your own actions,
than to think to reply or not to reply on comments.

Probably you are setting yourself to need a lot of help.
I feel pity, I hope not, but looks like it's going to be very tough for you.


That is another fake comment by you regarding the gurudwara.
you are consistently misusing (precisely using) this space to spread fake stuff,
I know that incident of Gurudwara inside out. And you've portrayed a completely falsified and half baked story.
Ask me if you want to know the complete details and I shall respond you with proper evidences.
What are you achieving by spreading such fake stuff over and over again ?


"but left when I went in" - that was interesting account,
and you shared nicely in short words - thanks for sharing.

Yes, I have closely observed various deaths of both the believers and non-believers,
and there is magnificent difference in that.
I've witnessed myself non-believers and abusers going through so much pain and agony
on their death bed sometimes for many weeks.
Someday I would like to explain some of these accounts here.

@ one intiated - hello!

Don’t have a go back that’s all!

“They” do come for them lol. And no one saves them. But don’t tell them lol.

Stay well brother - calm down a bit with this lot though. Not worth it . Peace be with you 😀

Please all of u stop writing non sense....please keep spirituality aside with all that happened between the brothers....mistake is done by hunans and this is never initiated or taught in sant mat....stop writing ......it hurts....he is the living n genuine true god

This hocus pocus about death experiences is stupid. Devout satsangis die horrible deaths all the time.

Arjuna, do you refuse to buy metal on Thursdays? You know that's what makes people poor right? I KNEW A GUY WHO DID IT! HE'S POOR!

You people and your stupid superstitions are a real drag. I feel dumb after reading that stuff.

@ Jesse hello - nope I don’t believe in that kind off stuff - like not eating a certain food on Tuesdays. Lol

But I know what I see - and I’m probably more trained to see that all of the bloggers here in my day job- take that the right way.

I’m not here to convince you of anything. I was just just calming one intiated down abit! 😀.

Jesse - sorry didn’t want to make you feel dumb 😀

The thing is, after a while, hearing all the same things about spirituality becomes like the line from Idiocracy- Brawndo is what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.

One anecdote about someone dying in a bad way after leaving a guru is proof of nothing. People sometimes get cancer after starting a new healthy lifestyle. Was the healthy choice the cause if their ailment?
Even joking about a gurus power actually gives him worldly and psychological power over innocent people.

But this man acted, who put the younger Singh on a stage to give Satsang at the Dera, setting him up as a moral authority, does not have the moral capital anymore to do so.

Thanks Spence for shedding light on this.

But did the Great Master lapse when allowing Kirpal Singh to
give Satsang at Dera? Or should Gurinder have been more
aware of the financial misdeeds of those in his orbit?

I'm sure the answer is yes to both. The courts will assess the
appropriate legal penalties. Maybe GSD will step down in
the aftermath too.

But, the real bankruptcy is often with the rabble shouting in
the back of the courtroom.

@ I’m not talking about a master - I’m talking about something else.

No one has power over us ! We invite in those - what word can use for you? Not sure. So you choose

I’m not entirely convinced of holy men so I don’t believe they have any power to punish us.

You tell me why people get cancer after starting a health life style - I don’t sure know!

“Shivinder Singh said in a press release issued on Tuesday that the action was long overdue but got delayed in the hope that "better sense shall eventually prevail and another ugly chapter of family feud would not be written in our family business’ glorious history."
Stating that he was dissociating with his brother, Shivinder claimed that "The collective, ongoing, actions of Malvinder and Godhwani had led to a systematic undermining of the interests of the companies and their shareholders as also the committed and loyal employees of the group."
This is turning into quite a financial and spiritual drama.

Shivinder Singh has been rumored to be the successor of Gurinder Singh Dhillon as the RSSB guru.”

-------Is there really a split in the family, or this is a drama orchestrated by them to keep the image of Shivinder clean as he seems to be the only candidate.

The image of the RSSB successor should not be tarnished by these scandals and to maintain the RSSB empire in the family control, this could be a strategic move.

The faith of the disciples in the Guru must be maintained.

Shivinder, by blaming Malvinder and Sunil will come out of the scandal clean, innocent, and the chances are Malvinder later on blaming Sunil could also come out clean from the wrongdoings. Only Sunil Godhwani is likely to be held responsible and accused for all the wrongdoings.

At this moment these are just assumptions but time will reveal, or not!

Juan, you're right to question every move. Personally, it looks to me like a desperation ploy to maybe avoid possible jail time. It's clear he wants to return to the Dera because he thinks he can become the next 'Master'.

Maybe that was part of the deal: embezzle the funds to GSD's wife, and get the gaddi in return.

Arjuna, maybe we agree on this but are using different terms. I think that yes we do invite certain kinds of thoughts, and sometimes people to hold power over us, and possibly at death that can come to the forefront of our minds.

But not because of an outside force. It's our own brain doing it in my opinion.

Juan, I suspect you might be correct. Though for anyone paying attention, an attempt to shift blame only adds to the shadiness.
If that guy was so innocent and focused on spirituality, why was he still part of the business? He could have sold out, stepped down and still be both rich and untarnished.

These guys are greedy idiots I think. They're bad people. Scam artists. Shady. Use the term of your choice, but you would be stupid to trust them.

If there's a hell, I suspect it's full of gurus and priests.

One Initiated says: "what a tremendous job is being done at Beas for serving free 3 meals daily in the 100s of millions count without asking any question to anyone - is not a small thing."

This is true, most of us spoilt westerners forget that the poor need this kind of charitable institution and also how much it must help them when they are experiencing a difficult life to feel like they have spiritual protection.

RSSB is more like a religion now and Gurinder is just a figurehead but at best it is a very good one to follow imo, especially with the four principles, vegetarianism, no alcohol or mind altering drugs, living a moral life, meditation.

People can choose to believe whatever they want... if it helps... so be it.

Juan, here's a problem with your theory, Sunil Godhwani is Gurinder Singh's right-hand man. They are very close, and reportedly the guru was intimately involved in Godhwani's decisions regarding Religare and other financial dealings.

So in a way Shivinder has filed a complaint about Gurinder Singh also, since the guru is tied so closely to Godhwani. This would make it rather awkward for Shivinder to be Gurinder's successor. Not impossible, but less likely.

Also, it wouldn't be surprising if the lawsuit came to involve Gurinder Singh, especially if Godhwani doesn't want to assume all the responsibility for the financial dealings Shivinder is disturbed about. Maybe Godhwani would be willing to do that, out of obedience/devotion for the guru.

But we've seen in the case of Trump that some of his close associates have chosen to cooperate with investigators in order to avoid or lessen jail time.

Every gurdwara and many hindu mandirs give away free food too. It's not a big deal.

The dera in beas is basically in the middle of nowhere. They only feed pilgrims who come from far away and who give the dera money anyway. It's not like they set up charity restaurants in densely populated areas.

Go to Bangla Sahib 7 days a week and watch anyone in the middle of delhi get fed. Not pilgrims, but anyone who is hungry. Or go to your local church. Christians feed literally billions of people.

Hi Juan!
Neither Shivandar, nor Movinder, will be able to sue their way into cleanliness!

But it seems Shivandar, under Baba Ji's advice, thinks he can sue his way into heaven. This is very poor judgement.

The incriminating evidence has the name Subnam Singh Dillon on it...All the loans funneled to Gurindar through the shell businesses listed under Subnam's name.

The Luthra and Luthra audit has all the loans Fortis made without collateral, and to cover the loan payments of prior loans. It has already been shown that for the past few years money has been siphoned into Subnam's business entities, and that these have little to do with hospital operations.

The sword has already pierced the heart of Baba Ji, and we are just witnessing the unraveling of life from this corruption.

It is just a matter of the details being publicized and understood.

And unfortunately it goes all the way back to the poor decisions made by both brothers at Ranbaxy to falsify their drug testing records and more.

All this lawsuit will do is draw more public scrutiny to Shivindar himself. And then the public will see he has no Healthcare management experience at all. Never ran a hospital nor a department. He is a financier, and this was a land valuation and speculation scheme.

It's never a good idea to sue. When you point one finger of blame the public spotlight points three back at the accuser.

But this is in line with the feeble attempts of this family.

What you see is that THEY believe they are infallable. THEY believe they are destined for Godhood.

And this is the kind of poor judgment, corner-cutting, corruption and poor decisions that accrue.

Shivindar really believes he is entitled to God hood and somehow his own brother is standing in the way.

But that also reflects Baba Ji's arrogance. An arrogance that has been on display, along with his charisma, knoweldge and spiritual power, at every Satsang.

One Initiated wrote: "I've witnessed myself non-believers and abusers going through so much pain and agony on their death bed sometimes for many weeks."

--I'm sorry they had to go through that but does that mean that devout Christians or devotees of other religions are going to die horrible deaths because the are not satsangis or drink wine, etc.?

After all, whether or not their faith is misplaced, they are sincere in their belief and love of God. Does Sat Purush then allow the full force of karma to descend upon them, brutally and relentlessly, simply because they did not come across a perfect living param sant sat guru? It must be because they are in the merciless clutches of Kal. Sat Purush stays out of all that lower region stuff.

I personally know of several initiates (satsangis) of Charan Singh who died in car wrecks. One fellow, died in great pain screaming for his mother. Apparently Charan was not there to lighten the load. Perhaps this poor guy ate some cheese made with animal rennet or pastry topped with egg whites and a karma rog ensued, rendering even Charan helpless? The others thankfully died fairly quickly but not pleasantly. No doubt sword thrusts were turned into pin pricks due to the benevolent grace of the Master or the deaths would have been more prolonged? I also knew a satsangi who was raped brutally while she was closing the shop where she worked. It was a series of sword thrusts and not pin pricks.

Look, even though these stories are true, I am, of course, being sarcastic to illustrate that some devotees' exaggerated beliefs in Sant Mat "magic" often do not manifest in the lives of followers, but sometimes they do? Like this one, told to me via the horse's mouth...

One time a close western follower of Charan occupied the next room to his in a hotel during one of his tours. Her son was there and quite ill with a fever. Charan came in the room and looked at the boy and then returned to his room where he coughed violently for a few minutes. Shortly after that the boy's condition improved and over the next few hours he became well.

So, was Charan "taking on" the boy's karma resulting in his recovery, as believed by his mother, or was Charan simply choking on some overly spicy bean curd? I'll leave it up to the reader to decide.

By the way, One Initiated, I usually regret it when I say someone is full of excrement even if there is some truth in it. Sorry.

The reason Baba Ji Himself can't be sued is because he has only provided advice. And not in a professional capacity.

But what a great husband to tie his wife legally to these siphoned funds. As the legal owner / major investor of these shell businesses Subnam Singh Dillon can absolutely be sued and on several counts.

It would be very bold for a court to go there. But publicize the details and the court of public opinion will handle the rest. It's as inevitable as the greed, pride and entitlement that brought this all about.

Hi Dungeness:

You asked
"But did the Great Master lapse when allowing Kirpal Singh to
give Satsang at Dera? Or should Gurinder have been more
aware of the financial misdeeds of those in his orbit?"
Everyone must tolerate the imperfect world around us. I can't possibly imagine what Baba Ji is thinking. And I have enough love and respect for him not to try.

But a crime is a crime. And crimes were committed involving him.
It's easy here to slip into making attributions of greed. It certainly looks that way. How can a greedy person also be a good spiritual teacher? We are all a mixed bag. And even the "Teacher" must incur some Karma. Where a line has been crossed, for me, is where crime is involved, theft, cheating, secrets, lies, blame placing on others and avoiding responsibility. No true Guru indulges in such things, I firmly believe.

Hi One:

You wrote to me above:
"You can tell stories, What I am telling is not a story,
it's a first hand experience with HIM - and not a once upon a time,
it's always and also in each and every live discourse that I attend.
And that is realised every time, HE is the true Sant SatGuru."

My stories were my own personal experiences. And they were miraculous.
You got that wrong.
Take a look at your comments again. Is it the Sat Guru that is perfect or you?
What is really your claim?

Dear Tucson,

You are an years old friend, and also very senior by age.

And it does not sound nice to me for you to be saying "Sorry" to me.
I am sorry that my comment made you to use the cuss word.

I am in Love not in hatred.

"When my wife in her former life 1947 at the separation
was raped, next killed by burning, . .
She was shielded off by Sweet MaharaJI Beloved Sawan Singh"

You are insane, and also a disgusting liar, 777.

No, 777. No panic about anything at all. It's surprising that someone who has attained omniscience like yourself could be so utterly wrong..... about everything. Not to mention dishonest.

You read in an rssb book that Sawan Singh initiated some Pakistani kids before partition and you're trying to pass it off as if somehow you're connected to the story. You're a really stupid troll.

777 wrote:
"When my wife in her former life 1947 at the separation
was raped, next killed by burning, . .
She was shielded off by Sweet MaharaJI Beloved Sawan Singh"

And Jesse replied:
"You are insane, and also a disgusting liar, 777."

So basically something which is beyond your perception,
and you feel incapable to find a memory block of your mind to process that info,
you label it as false.

Tucson, so what do you think about 777's inner experiences
and all the past lives incidents he has shared here numerous times?

No One, it's not beyond anyone's ability to see obvious lies and call them out.
Go spend some time in new age circles and everyone claims to have been a healer in ancient Egypt. They, like you and 7, are LARPing and lying.

@ Jessie - think you are right we have different terms.

I just want closure I guess something real to believe in - this Religare business isn’t helping me!

They have clearly done wrong and must say something or repent.

Too tired to write more- long day in the heat and I need sleep!

Arjuna, I'm not a Zen practitioner, and I think Zen is full of superstitious beliefs and mandatory practices of showing undue respect to supposedly enlightened people.

But, the practice of zazen itself and the very basic theory of it is amazingly simple and gets to the point of reality as we can perceive it.

You just sit and remain aware. That's all. Not contemplating, imagining, hoping, thinking or anything else.

After decades wasted in deity, personality and law centered shams like RS, Sikhism and Christianiy, the idea of meditating in the Zen style sounds very appealing and I believe it honestly points towards what is real as opposed to what is more exciting to fantasize about.

One Initiated asked:

"Tucson, so what do you think about 777's inner experiences
and all the past lives incidents he has shared here numerous times?"

--I don't know about 777's inner experiences. It appears he is well versed in mysticism but that doesn't mean he is flying around Lake Mansorovar or Sahaj Dip, or penetrating Bank Nal or that such places exist within him or within the awareness of anyone else. I mean, if I wanted I could make up stories and exaggerated half truths about spiritual experiences, past lives, etc. and sound sort of convincing, but would that prove anything or be of any value to the reader? I don't know where 777 is at. Is he crazy? A troll? Has his kundalini gone awry?

I have told this story before, but there was this guy in Santa Monica who used to roam the beaches singing endlessly for hours while banging on a tambourine.. "Merry go, merry go, merry go 'round". Usually I would think , this guy is a lunatic and totally fried while at other times I would think, you know, I think this guy is onto something, some kind of truth about the human condition. Maybe he's enlightened and is trying to teach us something, you know, trying to wake us up.

There are certain things that 777 says that stimulate my intuition about "spiritual" things in the same way that poetry has that effect or hearing that guy on the beach.

One time I was listening to the Beatles song "I Am the Walrus" and when Lennon hit the line "I am the Walrus, goo goo ga joob" it triggered a complete shift in my being/awareness that has stayed with me to this day decades later. Yes, I had taken some pretty good LSD and had just finished reading Watts' "The Book"... A great combination catalyst for me in those days.

So, don't throw 777 out with the bathwater. Sometime, maybe, he will be that catalyst for you.

Hi Arjuna,

We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make the world.

Cheers bro

Brian, Of course Gurinder seems to be involved in all the decisions and probably he is also responsible as well, but inspite of all that I think it is very unlikely that he could be dragged directly in this lawsuit because all the instructions given by him, I guess, would be verbal and he is not an authority in the company to take decisions, whereas Godhwani being the CEO of the Company would face hard time to prove the contrary.

General Elections in India are to be held next year and involving a Sect Leader in a lawsuit with such a large following would not be good for the ruling party, so the involvement of GSD in this lawsuit is unlikely.

Lately the children of initiates, the younger generation have no interest in RSSB. They are the ones who would come to know of this scandal. The following would hardly suffer and continue to rise.The classic followers hardly care who is on Gaddi as long as he is with a beard, turban and white robes and Shivinder, although involved in this scandal would not face any resistance. Even if the successor to Gaddi is not Shivinder, it would be somebody else from their family.

In India everything can be solved by paying a price. Godhwani is probably the only one who would be sacrificed in the service of the Master.

Jesse, I don’t think any of these, nor the previous Gurus had anything to do with spirituality. It is their business, and they would put all their efforts to maintain their control on the followers and organization.

@ Jen - I agree 😀

@ Jesse - I’m not in the mind to try any thing at the moment as where I am is - well I must engage my mind and keep it sharp. Will see how the land lies after December.


Yes, GSD (too) will put all his efforts to maintain his control on the followers and organisation.
He was a member of a humble family when he was sent to Spain and this reminds me
of a quote by Erich Fromm:

The ordinary man with extraordinary power is the chief danger of mankind

GSD said a few months ago that he hates the internet, and that if he had the power he would destroy it, i wonder why lol.

@ G.S : Hilarious !

Bombay Blonde - Where are you from? Mumbai or Pune?

@ seeker : LOL ... I'm just a hire who types ... :)

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