RSSB calls 1500-2000 secretaries to Dera. Something is up.

UPDATE ON SEPT. 25: Juan just left this comment, indicating that the September 17 meeting of Indian secretaries was indeed scheduled, then cancelled. I've also heard that Gurinder Singh Dhillon's scheduled initiation ceremony in New Delhi, which was last weekend, I believe, was cancelled. So it still seems to me that something is up. We just don't know what.

UPDATE ON SEPT. 11: I've heard from someone with close ties to RSSB that actually there isn't a meeting of Indian secretaries happening on September 17. If Juan reads this, I'm curious to know how he learned of the meeting, and whether there was any written documentation of the meeting notice. It's strange that nobody from RSSB said that the meeting wasn't happening after I wrote this post. The only skepticism was from a few commenters who said a meeting happens every year around this time.
-------------------------

If true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, today's comment on a recent blog post, "Will Gurinder Singh quit as RSSB guru and appoint a female successor," seems like pretty big news.

I was the secretary of our local Radha Soami Satsang Beas group for many years. Periodically I'd get written communications from the Dera (RSSB headquarters in India), but to my knowledge this is a first in the history of RSSB -- requiring secretaries to come to the Dera for an obligatory meeting. 

UPDATE: Above is another comment from Juan, which was published on this post. If I read it correctly, the meeting is only for secretaries in India. So I've reflected that new information in this blog post. I've added another guess, (3) below, as to what the meeting is about.

What's the reason for this meeting? We could wait and see. But that's not as much fun as speculating. Which is what I'll do. 

First, Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the RSSB guru, has said that he intends to answer questions about his suspicious financial dealings, which have attracted a lot of attention in India. However, it doesn't seem likely that the guru would require the secretaries to journey to India to hear a report that could be communicated in written form.

So what else could the reason be? These are my top guesses. Feel free to suggest your own via a comment on this post.

(1) Gurinder Singh is going to announce that he is resigning as RSSB guru, and wants to explain his reasons in person. He then will announce his successor, who could be a woman.

(2) Gurinder Singh is going to announce a major change in how RSSB operates. Perhaps there will be less emphasis on overseas centers, and more emphasis on initiates' private meditation and spiritual life. Going back to basics, so to speak.

(3) Gurinder Singh is going to announce his response to the allegations about financial impropriety concerning RSSB and the Dhillon family, urging the secretaries to communicate that response to the Indian members of RSSB.

(3) Gurinder Singh is going to announce that Brian Hines (me) has been correct that the RSSB guru is just an ordinary person who lacks mystical powers, and appoints me as the new "guru" who will deliver messages to RSSB members through this blog. (OK, I'm joking.)

Comments

[[email protected]]

You need better sources. He isn’t even in Dera the third week of September. His schedule is listed on the www.rssb.org site. At least fact check before you go posting like a parrot!!! Fake news! Libtard!

[La Madrugada]

@Brian
Would be glad with the third option.
You have already many followers, but
please, no turban, no podest and no posh "clubhouses"

[Marko]

Quote Brian
(3) Gurinder Singh is going to announce that Brian Hines (me) has been correct that the RSSB guru is just an ordinary person who lacks mystical powers, and appoints me as the new "guru" who will deliver messages to RSSB members through this blog. (OK, I'm joking.)

.....me:haha Brian this was good one

[[email protected]]

Also just shot a text to our local secretary no such meeting has been called. Brian you are loosing it...posting off of “comments” your blog will fade back to 100 hits per month by end of next month. And you will cry like a liberal hippie that you are...go hug a damn tree. FAKE NEWS! I assume you are going to post as blonde or Jesse your made up blog followers.

[[email protected]]

@ Jesse the dumbo in the room. No changes have been made he is all set for Delhi Satsang. Only thing that will be cut short is your so called intellect. FAKE CNN reporting going on here!!!! No facts!!! Just pseudo messages!!

[Jesse]

[email protected], One Initiated or another one of my detractors has a quantum science super detector spirit words verification awesomeness machine or something like that. He also thinks I'm Brian because his Vedic science machine of words can prove that we write the same.

Except that we don't write similarly. Not even close. I'm actually named Jesse, and I am the true form of your guru. When you go beyond the pig form, then comes the normal dude form. That's me. Meditate on me.

[[email protected]]

@ Jesse stop trying to use big words...it hurts your tiny liberal brain. Judas that’s who you are...back stabbers that’s what you are. Go find a hole to hind in maybe under the oak tree in your yard.

[[email protected]]

By the way Brian isn’t so clean himself...plays dumb and gets fined with ethic violations as well...

https://katu.com/news/local/blogger-accuses-salem-city-councilor-of-retaliation-state-says-blogger-broke-law

[La Madrugada]

@Jesse

Except that we don't write similarly. Not even close. I'm actually named Jesse, and I am the true form of your guru. When you go beyond the pig form, then comes the normal dude form. That's me. Meditate on me.

Jesse, you made my day, tears in my eyes of laughing
chair is chaking too!
sorry for my english, not my first language

[Jesse]

""He was in his right but to me he was being kind of a sore loser," said Hines. "It's totally open what I was doing. I just don't think that I should've had to register but that was the law in Oregon so … so be it."

Kind of different than godman saying "everything is private. don't ask questions about my personal life" as he gets busted over and over again.

Funny how Brian Hines, normal Oregonian guy on the internet, has more honor and honesty than billionaire guru who calls himself god. We really should make Brian the head of RSSB. Dear Blogger we could call him.

[[email protected]]

Liberal tears....don’t worry more is coming on Brian and I will post it here.

[[email protected]]

@ Jesse you are ignorant not once has GSD said he is god. You are a bafoonnn..

[Jesse]

Mystic, he prints and sells thousands of books that say "perfect living master" and a website that says the same. A perfect living master is god according to those same books and websites.

Don't lie. His self assigned title is god.

[[email protected]]

@ Jesse again you don’t listen to anything GSD has said! He clearly has said in many Satsang sin Punjabi! That this body cannot be the guru;nor can this body be a disciple...goes on to say that the power to be a guru or disciple is within our souls only! Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chela! That the shabad is the guru and through attaching tothe sound current the soul becomes the disciple.

[Juan]

Brian, in fact you are the real Guru for true seekers, where the Dera is always open without any security check and the initiation is without any conditions.

The meeting will be attended by 1700 Area Secretaries/Incharge posted in India only and it is on 17th of Sept. It is expected that Gurinder would be there, although nothing specific has been said.
He will be in Malaga (Spain) on 28th, 29th and 30th of this month.

[Juan]

Mysticmystic wrote:

At least fact check before you go posting like a parrot!!! Fake news! Libtard!

----I think the most reliable person who could confirm about this is One Initiated.

[Jesse]

Brian, did I misread your post, or was it edited? I swear it said you had no reason to believe the message by Juan was true.

I probably just read way too fast and uncarefully. You can delete my post where I misquoted you.

Or just leave it up. I like when some of these guys have my own errors to use against me. They're already at such a disadvantage that I feel bad for them.

[Spence Tepper]

Gurindar Singh will maintain his financial empire at all cost. His pursuit of wealth has been so singular and the main focus of his life.

The Singhs have already been found guilty of fraud with the Daiichi sale, and now the nearly $400M in siphoned funds to the Dhillon family is being investigated.

But there are so many corrupt interests involved it will likely take years.

The real change is that the investigations will forever be publicly documented and never again will RSSB be able to hoodwink so many true seekers who take the decision to ask for initiation as a serious responsibility.

But there will always be lovers of truth. Brian, Jesse and others among them.

And they can rest easy that they have done the Lord 's work.

[TheGodfather]

Hello Mr. Brian

I have one question for you..

How do you write so WELL?
Do you have like a fun version of Grammarly or is it you're native or simply your mind shits gold?

Please do respond.

[Jesse]

I know people think I am ripping on Indians a bit too much, which I'm really not since my views are far more nuanced to be discussed in depth here, but I gotta say one more thing about the cultural differences.

Actually, this is more about how both foreigners and upper class Indians use poor Indians as mascots. Look at Labor of Love or the other books about Seva from RSSB, or watch that video on the site which shows how all the loving poor Indian people are so spiritually enlightened, and material concerns are the last thing on their mind.

You're told they travel from long distances out of nothing but the most pure intentions. They have no malice in their hearts. All they care about is love, light, life, and being angelic perfection in human form....

Then you read the comments here from all those angels. Comments like "fuck you bastard!" and "you will suffer for disrespecting my baba ji!" and whatever else. The whole facade is just blown apart after reading these comments and you realize that RSSB, like most religions, simply doesn't have any innate power to change the nature of man.

There is nothing about these religions that has ever been proven effective in making people better. "Good" people, regardless of any background concerns, usually remain "good." Same for "bad" folks. When you read about transformations, those stories are exceptions to the rule.

The fact that you're not allowed to communicate with them at Dera should sort of tell you something about the falsity of the propaganda. A lot of those angels are good, a lot of them are really bad, and RSSB will never change them. They're here cussing and hoping death upon us. Is that the fruit of meditation?

[Brian Hines]

Jesse, I did delete your comment, because I do believe what Juan said is true. Here's how I started out the post:

"If true, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, today's comment on a recent blog post, 'Will Gurinder Singh quit as RSSB guru and appoint a female successor,' seems like pretty big news."

It isn't the clearest sentence in the world, but what I meant to say is that I have no reason to believe the comment isn't true. That means I DO think it is true. If I'd said, I have no reason to believe the comment is true, that would have meant I DON'T think it is true.

[Jesse]

Yes. I was scanning to fast and misread the comment you made. It was my mistake for being hasty and careless.

It's all the more clear now that Juan has said that those instructed to attend were from the Indian sangat only since that's certainly doable. Gurinder should pay for their tickets though, being that he's mixing business with spiritual treasure.

[Dungeness]

The real change is that the investigations will forever be publicly documented and never again will RSSB be able to hoodwink so many true seekers who take the decision to ask for initiation as a serious responsibility.

Spence, I hope you'd agree GSD is entitled to a fair hearing
since he's promised a "statement at an opportune time".
One of those bombshell articles makes clear GSD hasn't
been fingered as a wrong doer either. If RSSB is the nasty,
malign cult the blog rabble have imputed it to be, surely'
one of his shadowy confederates would've flipped and
thrown him under the bus by now. Journalists would have
pounced on evidences of "ostrich skin" jackets, offshore
accounts, Maserati's, and juicy bacchanalia. What am
I missing, who's being hoodwinked?

Whatever's revealed, the stain on RSSB is outsize. Perhaps
that's due to the absurd expectations that GIHF is gonna
stage-manage destinies to comport with some idealized
image of how "holy folks" should behave. In any case, the
legal drama should unfold so more is known without a rush
of kangaroos (also called a "mob" in the plural) to judgment.

[One Initiated]

Jesse,

I never thought you are Brian.
Just like me and everyone else, you are different person with different set of karmas,
and you will pay them back separately.

Don't assume Brian or this blog would be able to help you in paying back.

The only thing that would help you is listening to the Sound,
and you will have to do it on your own.

I do love you and care for you, you are doing too much harm to yourself,
and last thing I would want to see is you facing anything bad,
I wish you a lot of Shabd and great inner speed.

[Best]

I am extremely disturbed to see all this.

[Osho Robbins]

@Brian
I will go with option 4
But you have labelled it incorrectly as 3
So sorry you forfeit the guruship.
Be more careful of your numbering in future

Can you just imagine
You as the next guru with all
Commandments being issued on the website

[Best]

Hello everyone
My first comment was just like we all test Mike before making announcement. I have been going to Dera Beas since 40 yrs, that's my age too. I have been witness to Maharaj charan singhji's time, his demise and subsequent installation of throne on head of the current guru. I started going as everyone in my family used to be their followers.
In earlier times, everything used to be very simple and pleasing. Be it the designs of building, sheds, sewa, Sanjay, sewadars, cars, flats. But slowly everything kept on changing. It's like think Big, do Big. The inclusion of higher officials of army, administration etc into higher echelon of Dera management have brought the ' Superior than thou ' attitude amongst the jathedars and higher officials of Dera administration. They just run everything in a dictatorial manner by giving justified and unjustified orders.
RSSB is quick to adopt technologies. They have details of every sewadar, his family members, his vehicles, business etc. What they do with that, I don't understand. Frankly speaking, they are running a state within a state. They have their own rules, not answerable to anyone. That is why they do everything with impunity. They don't care at all. They have supporters in every political party and administration.Political parties don't dare to annoy Dera supporters. That's why everything has been moving at snail's pace. They don't allow media in the Dera. That's why it hasn't become a full blown media story yet. It will become one, for sure. But will take time. As elections are coming up in 8-9 months, I am not sure how much delay they will make in completing the investigations.
All those persons who say that Dera and fortis/religare don't have close relationship, are fools. There is a Fortis hospital on Chandigarh road at Ludhiana. When they couldn't find a suitable place for the hospital, they were simply given the land from the satsang Ghar land. Now Fortis hospital is in front and satsang Ghar is behind it.
I will shed more light on the deeds later. We should be rational and objective, not be blind followers. Don't feel bad, they are going to harvest, what they have down.

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Best : +1 YES

[Marko]

Quote Osho.....

Can you just imagine
You as the next guru with all
Commandments being issued on the website

...me: Osho or imagine Brian with turban.

[Shruti]

I have done sewa in sewa smiti for an year so i can tell you this , every year the secretaries are called and have a meeting with baba ji . I dont know the exact number or this time is there an increase but in sept or oct every year this happens so it might be just that .

[G.S]

Baba Brian Hines or Maharaj Hines, which one is it going to be?

[Marko]

Blogger Bhudur Hines Ji Maharaj Singh

[Jesse]

"I do love you and care for you, you are doing too much harm to yourself,"

Be careful of cults. If people who you've never met in your life tell you they love you, there is something seriously wrong. You can't love people you don't know. Saying you can is creepy and manipulative.

If they say that they want to save you by telling you to literally worship the leader of the cult ie "listen to the sound" and imagine his face, they are even more dangerous.

Stay away from RSSB

[Shruti]

I have done sewa in sewa smiti so can say this for sure , every year there is a meeting of secretaries from all over in beas in sept or oct . So this might be it .

[Arjuna]

"He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster.
And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."

This gorgeous quote popped into my mind 😀

And what a guy Nietzsche was. Have a lovely day folks - the sun is out and it’s going to be fab!

[Sarah]

UPDATE:
(3)
(3) 🤣🤣🤣

With talk of a woman being appointed, I started thinking about the bizarre role that the wives of Gurinder and Shivinder (Shabnam and Atiti, respectively) have played in this financial scandal. If these women are just “homemakers” then WHY do these men list companies in their wives names?? Clearly Gurinder has been putting business first over the years earning an unGodly amount of money (fun to say 😉). Here’s an article from several years back. Just look how active his “wife” was in their family companies then!! BTW, I’m guessing SGGD stands for Shabnam Gurkeerat Gurpreet Dhillon. Just a guess... see article link below.

Must continuously read and refresh our memories to get a clear picture of this whoppingly gigantic convoluted mess!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/markets/the-dhillon-factors-in-religare-115093000975_1.html

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Dungeness
All this is only to support an open mind, and encourage the courts to investgate thoroughly.

There already is the court judgements and the FDA judgments against the Singh brothers. Those are thoroughly documented.

Now we have the Luthra and Luthra investigations and those of the Fortis board, and others, into to illegal loans, and the terminations of the Singh brothers.

Those are matters of record.

Next are the $400M in unauthorized and uncollateralized loans to the Dhillons basically embezzled from the Fortis hospital system. And finally that those Dhillon loans were never paid, but serviced by creating new loans based on collateral of the Dhillons in part
Based on the artificial value bolstered by the prior loans.

When you look at all the information, you see that one individual funded the expansion from the trusts into Religare, mentored the Singh brothers, signed his wife and family members as principles in a number of new shell companies, including the Fortis healthcare acquisition, and then promoted the Singhs as principles at Fortis : Gurindar Singh Dhillon.

The legality of all this is up to the courts. The atribution of blame is up to the courts.

But the ethics of nepotism involved, of siphoning and embezzlement, of illegal leveraged loans on top of leveraged loans, and the business entity whose name is the center of all of this is well supported: Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

Such activists have nothing to do with being a Sant Sat Guru.

Is devotion to saving souls really just a sideline?

All that I was taught by Maharaji, by Sawan and Jaimal Singh says the opposite. Love of the lord is the single occupation of the Saints.

You might draw a different conclusion. It is your right to do so.

And if any of this is actually Baba Ji's intention, it is not to throw off those who accept their responsibility to make their own decision, regardless of the outcome.

It is to throw off those who cling to superstitious myths, so attached to their salvation they cannot let any risk enter in, even relinquishing their dignity as adults.

Yes, this may ask be part of Baba Ji's plan. Though you would have to go within to set it.

And the plan is the destruction of the religion that RSSB had become, and the corrupt financial institution that is the current RSSB.

Who better to do this than the Master?

[Osho Robbins]

Does anyone knows if there is normally an annual general meeting anyway, once a year with all the secretaries.

What I mean is, perhaps he has this meeting every year.

[Brian Hines]

Osho Robbins, I asked someone the question you raised. This person appears to be very knowledgeable about Dera goings-on. This was the response I got:

"To my recollection, this is the first time that such a meeting has been called for at the Dera."

[Shruti]

@blogger brian i m 100 pc sure it happens every year . And its nto false u can call the dera and check too

[Ashok G. Bharwani]

Hi Brian,
Interested Reading all these new Issues , I was attached with RSSB since i was 11Years old boy , but since 1998, a very simple question related to sant mat and Karms was being asked by GSD in chile, which was not being able to answer, and the same queston Purposely I had asked in North Caroline as had to take my Mother who wanted to meet her . Again Inspite of Responce of the simple question MEN got angry at Satsang hall in front of 2000 Disciples. MASTER GETS ANGRY for a simple question related to Karms and Saint Mat . which i had followed almost 36Years. That day onwards for me GSD lost all the respect and was being considered a common Person like everyone in this UNIVERSE , and Infact A CROOKED Person who has been playing with Public Sentiments and Collecting Billions of Dollars on Donation, Men is HUNGRY FOR POWER AND MONEY and obviously not going to Neither resign nor any of the option you mentioned - Specially the last one - NEVER and if he has to, he would give the power of attorney to his Family Members . is a same group of RAM RAHIM who is in Prison for 20Years - in 1960,s RSSB group was being divided for the Post of who would be next Guru.

[287daysleft]

Ashok:

What was the simple question Babaji could not answer?

.

[Bombay Blonde]

Sarah says - With talk of a woman being appointed, I started thinking about the bizarre role that the wives of Gurinder and Shivinder (Shabnam and Atiti, respectively) have played in this financial scandal.

I say - No role. None, whatsoever. And that's because the Sikhs are extremely patriarchal. Women don't get too much internal power to wield until they come of an age where they assume the role of the matriarch, and that's much later in life. Shabnam has gone along with whatever GSD's done. Aditi and her family enjoy excellent repute. Aditi's mother is a very good woman I hear. With the gossip mills working overtime to juice whatever comes their way, I haven't heard a single wrong thing about Aditi and her family. Just posting what I get to know.

Sarah says - If these women are just “homemakers” then WHY do these men list companies in their wives names??

I say - It is common practice to give the women of a family shareholdings within a family business. It marks a good practice of financial inclusion and can also be an arrangement for tax efficiency. It's acceptable and legal. Several communities in India consider the women of the house as avatars of the Goddess Laxmi who is the goddess of wealth and a symbol of good fortune. I wholly endorse this practice, as this way women aren't as easily disposable should there be a divorce. Womens rights within patriarchal structures are always complicated, but it is always good to see families who give status and equality to their women by giving them internal holdings.

[manjit]

Dear Spencer - Wow, quite staggering to read some of your recent comments! My respects go out to you for being able to change your mind and remain true to your own values!

However, I am a little staggered at the following comment, and feel perhaps a small dose of sanity & honesty is required in the current self-congratulatory & delusionary maelstrom of this blog - Spencer writes: "But there will always be lovers of truth. Brian, Jesse and others among them. "

Huh? :-o Shall we examine this comment? :)

In between Brian's obsession with "visitor counts" to his blog, what unflattering picture a news channel used of him, crying at transparent Freudian praise projected upon him and what type of honorific should be used to appeal to him (oh, in "jest" of course, though never a truer word spoken...) where and when exactly has Brian been a "lover of truth"?

Let's leave Jesse aside for a moment - self-admitted and self-evident trolling in the form of easy, juvenile, vacuous, naive, cynical & profoundly ignorant "arguments" wrapped in a body of arrogance that considers itself "intelligent", despite being the level of argument and knowledge you would expect from a petulant child. You may consider this to be evident of a "lover of truth", I consider this to be evidence of ignorance & cynicism expressing itself.

But Brian? Is this the same Brian who preached and promoted RSSB and Gurinder for years - and ONLY found himself disillusioned - overnight & instantaneously - when he was fired from his official position, hence robbing him of the recognition and attention it is absolutely self-evident to any semi-conscious person is what really motivates him?

Is this the nature of "truth"? Preaching one thing because one is given a position to preach, then immediately preaching the complete opposite overnight because that position is taken away from you? Why does this seem more like the nature of unexamined egotism and pride, the complete anti-thesis of the path he once preached (but clearly never understood beyond the intellectual and conceptual)?

And, really, what is this "truth" he "loves"? By sheer accident of his position (in truth, the real criticism of RSSB here is how and why people with absolutely no experiential understanding or experience on any level whatsoever are allowed to author books and hold satsangs about something that is supposed to be a purely experiential path!) and his deep desire for attention and recognition, people from all over the world send him links and rumours about RSSB - not a single thing he has "reported" on this blog was unknown in the general public before, from Gurinder's wealth, sexualised comments, potential chosen successor etc......NONE of these are Brian's insights or knowledge, they are all incidental news items that have been forwarded to him & which he publishes on his blog without examination because it gets him the attention he very clearly desperately craves and for which Brian subtly takes credit.

The deep disnonesty, lack of integrity, lack of genuine concern and compassion (incidentally, something that Jesse has also openly admitted when he says things like he has nothing for contempt for people who believe in RSSB....he doesn't realise the pyschological projection!), complete lack of concern for "truth" is evidenced, for example, when Brian brings up the "me too" movemement when discussing Sheena's "Memoirs of a Seeker" book, despite there being nothing even remotely similar to the abuses being revealed by the "Me too" movement. To equate Gurinder initally wishing to make transparent and open a false allegation of sexual impropritey (then changing his mind when requested not do so by the woman in question), or making one seemingly "hurtful" comment about her sexual past amongst friends is imo completely disgusting & dishonest. Brian doesn't care about RSSB satsangis or women who are genuinely harrased or abused, and will use anything to highlight his cause, which is to get recognition, attention & visitors to his blog, even if it dimishes the pain and suffering caused by genuine, hidden abuses (again, please note, Gurinder wished to make it known to everyone!). A similar sort of disgusting lack of concern and insight into more serious issues, purely based on the completely unexamined (the psychology behind Brian's entire blog history I find quite obvious myself) desie to criticise Gurinder and RSSB, was evident in Brian's post about Gurinder's non-judgemental comments about abortion a few years ago.

What am I trying to say here, Spence? Please don't mistake Brian (or Jesse's) comments with a love for truth, that would be imo a spectacularly misguided and erroneous perspective. These guys are playing a part in a phenomena they have no understanding or comprehension about, and they are clearly and transparently (and indeed self-admittedly in Jesse's case) not motivated by truth, love, compassion etc. They, in fact, don't even understand the subject they're discussing, but are mrely expressing their own disattisfaction, lack of experience and knowledge etc.

I am astonished you do not recognise this and instead ascribe noble motivations & knowledge that are patently not true?

To all the many thousands of visitors to this blog that Brian keeps reminding us of - please do note that Brian's ultimate realisation is this; Existence is utterly futile, we are mindless meat robots, nihilism is the truest & most wisest realisation possible, there are no such things as mystical experiences....and other assorted delusions born of a mind with little to no direct experience of these subjects. Is it any wonder in such a miserable, sad, ignorant world-view that meaning & value is sought after in the gleeful & joyous descruction of the belief and faith of others, and an ever increasing "visitor count"?

As you know, I have been a critic of Gurinder and RSSB for 2 decades now (and criticised Gurinder's sexualised comments before anyone else ever mentioned it anywhere online, criticised his obsene wealth before the inevitable scandals which are no more concerning than the fact he had that wealth in the first place, which we've all known for years etc etc)......but to somehow imagine those who know & have experienced nothing, seek attention and recognition at all costs and have no concern for integrity, who have NOTHING at all to share but bitterness, cycnicism and nihilism, are more noble, honest etc than the teachings and values RSSB hold? I find that absolutely staggering, especially coming from you! Be careful who you throw your lot in with!

I wish good luck to you and all others who may be struggling emotionally & intellectually with the current state of Radhasoami affairs.

Peace, Manjit

[Jesse]

I knew Manjit's comment would be insane as soon as he said Brian was "obsessed" with visitor count. If mentioning something once registers as an obsession to someone, you know they're psychologically unbalanced, and oh did Manji go on to prove that.

Nice comment, buddy.

[manjit]

Jesse; " If mentioning something once registers as an obsession to someone"

If mentioning something multiple times over just recent months doesn't "register" at all, and one delusionally claims it was mentioned only once, then you can be certain you've entered the realm of the "psychologically unbalanced".

Hi Jesse!

[manjit]

Hi Jesse - It is abundantly clear you have no real comprehension of the dynamics of psychology, Radhasoami faith, mystical experiences or, well, anything of any relevant note.

So let me help you along with a bit of CotC "history". Here is where Brian got "sacked" (really? Was it a "job"? What was he paid in? Attention?):

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2005/10/ive_been_fired.html

In that blog, Brian references a post of mine from RSS forum from 10 days earlier where I predicted he would be removed from his position.

It was immediately subsequent to that sense of being "fired" that Brian's cynical, atheistic & mindless criticisms of RSSB & Gurinder started to take place. It is interesting, is it not, that one day you're preaching in promotion of a cult & it's dangerous guru, and the very next day apparently based on something as utterly inconsequential and irrelevant as being removed from a worldly position of recognition, you start criticising that guru and path as false?

Something is indeed "false" about all that.

I let the wiser amongst the readers of this blog decipher just what that "falseness" is....

It is far easier to see through this charade than it is of the ancient practice & experience of shabd yoga....but you wouldn't know that, at all, because all you're seeing through are your concepts of shabd yoga, and you have zero, zilch, nada, NO personal experience of either shabd yoga, guru bhakti, devotion etc

[Jesse]

You said in one sentence that I didn't know that Brian had mentioned his site visits, and that I did know that Brian had mentioned his site visits. Get checked out man. You can't remain consistent for an entire short sentence.

One time I asked him about traffic. Not his obsession. Not mine either. Just a normal thing to wonder about. Many bloggers talk about traffic. Another time he mentioned it in response to increased traffic due to being in Indian news. This is normal.

Get outside. Have a drink. Relax and don't read into things you can't understand, Manjit. You're obviously incapable of understanding nuance and humor and its hurting you, so take a break.

[Jesse]

Yoga is lame. I don't want to experience anything that would make me like you or your thief guru, manji.

[manjit]

"Get outside. Have a drink. Relax and don't read into things you can't understand, Manjit. You're obviously incapable of understanding nuance and humor and its hurting you, so take a break."

Hehehe! Delusion and projection are rife here, clearly. I haven't posted here in months. Perhaps you need to take a break? Delusion, delusion, projection. Obviously so.

Simply claiming to have a sense of humour....when it is evident that all is really being expressed is cynicism & bitterness.....does not make it so.

You live in a world of fantasy and projection, and think your words create reality. You really haven't got a clue what you're talking about, and it shows.

[manjit]

"Yoga is lame. I don't want to experience anything that would make me like you or your thief guru"

My theif guru? Is that the organisation you were initiated by, but I wasn't? Your delusional disconnection from reality is transparent. Pay more attention.

Yoga is lame? But, honestly Jesse, what do you know any Yoga? Absolutely nothing beyond the superficial and meaningless. You are like a 5 year old child discussing quantum science in the conceptual framework of silly putty.

Every single comment of yours I have ever read here has been incredibly facile, juvenile and lacking in any kind of wisdom, knowledge or insight. I could train a mischevious 12 year to post comments indistinguishable from you, no personal, direct knowledge or experience neccessary. Entirely vacuous noise.

You might consider that very intelligent, wise and amusing....and surely you brother in dogmatic arms Brian will support you, you being part of his cult of adoration.

But it will never make it true. Reality itself will shine through the vacuousness of your comments.

Cheers!

[Marko]

Quote Brian....
Wow, that’s great! People are reading my blog!” It didn’t bother me to hear that I’ve been making some people uncomfortable.

..quote Brian...
My obsession tends to be expressed in words, of course. That’s a problem.

Quote Brian...
Believe me, the person who has been made most uncomfortable by my writings is me.

[Marko]

Quote Jesse
Yoga is lame. I don't want to experience anything that would make me like you or your thief guru, manji.
.....
As far as I know Jesse ,Manjit does not have a guru.

[Jesse]

He doesn't have anything interesting to say either, Marko. Nothing is worse than a wannabe psychoanalyst.

Reminds me of my days at the cafes listening to first year psychology students trying to understand why their mother didn't understand them.

The whole idea that yoga is special only exists because an entire society failed to contribute much in worldly terms and seeks relevancy through the trickery of mysticism. It's unprovable and thus safe to claim you're the best at. Who can challenge you? Nobody.

As I keep telling these clowns. I am the fully realized guru. They're just not spiritual enough to know it.

[Jesse]

Can anyone here tell me why so many commenters use the word quantum? Is it an attempt to sound smart?
It's kind of hilarious and reminds me of Deepak Chopra's quote creator app.

[Jesse]

"Simply claiming to have a sense of humour....when it is evident that all is really being expressed is cynicism & bitterness"

Hey, I very pleased with my cynicism and bitterness too. Don't try to pigeonhole me and limit my qualities, Manji.

My cynicism might be what I'm most proud of, actually. It's nice to have an honest cynicism in a world full of hypocrites pretending to be enlightened who use the word "quantum" for absolutely no reason at all other than that they think it's smart sounding.

This world needs a dose of honest negativity. I mean, you're negative too, but you seem to think it's serious and important, which makes your negativity dishonest.

I'm a dadaist, as well as your satguru. Trust me if you want to be saved, Manji.

[manjit]

Hi Jesse - your first post? Vacuious and irrelevant noise, obviously.

Your second post? How utterly desperate you sound to say something wise or witty - don't try so hard, your buddy Brian and other mindless RS cynics will say you've hit the nail on the head!

Meanwhile, back in reality - your attempt to associate what I meant with Quantum "woo" associated with Chopra is incredibly desparate sounding, almost delirous.

I'm not making connections between the quantum and the spiritual, but rather pointing out the absurdity of trying to discuss quantum mechanics with a child who cannot count to 100.

You may not realise it, behind your transparently emotive desperation to want to appear cool, witty and wise, but there is humour in that last parargraph.

Cheers, I'll be here all day! :)

[manjit]

"My cynicism might be what I'm most proud of, actually"

Of course! Along with your bitterness, what else do you have to share? Evidentially, nothing!

Jesse: "This world needs a dose of honest negativity"

Well, you've mastered the negativity. Now onto the honesty!

You're a "Dadaist"? How retro-chic of you!

As is your wonderfully intelligent and witty "put-down" by dropping the last letter of my name.....I'm so offended, what will I do with myself!

Oh, hold, nothing, because I'm not a child.

:)

[Jesse]

You already said "vacuuos and irrelevant noise" I think. Try another one.
Or try making a point other than that you're emotional and you hate Brian, me, other people maybe?

Is RSSB corrupt? Will it appoint a new guru soon? Speculate on the issue instead of purely insulting with repetitive character assassinations.

[manjit]

"You already said "vacuuos and irrelevant noise" I think. Try another one."

Eh? How about I stop repeating that when you stop making vacuous and irrelevant noise?

So, not anytime soon then!

"Is RSSB corrupt? Will it appoint a new guru soon? Speculate on the issue instead of purely insulting with repetitive character assassinations."

What's the matter Jesse, don't like what I'm saying? Too much indisputable and transparently self-evident truth that you are unable to counter on ANY level whatsoever for you?

[Jesse]

Here ya go, manji.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ButtHurt

[manjit]

Wow Jesse, you really are an intellectual giant!

Have you ever considered that every single post Brian has ever posted since that fateful day in 2005 he considered himself to be "fired" has been motivated by "butt hurt"?

Have you considered that every single post you've written here is motivated by & transparently demonstrates "butt hurt"?

Have you considered you are a veritable gold-mind of Freudian psychological issues writ large in every single comment you make?

You really should consider it.

[Jesse]

Keep crying if you want maaaaanj, but it's not helping your case. Try expressing an opinion on the topics here instead of reeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! ing so much.

I think Gurinder likely committed crimes. What do you think?

[manjit]

"What do you think?"

I think you are a self-admitted and self-evident troll who has no understanding or comprehension of your own emotions & motivations, let alone that of others as you repeatedly claim. I think you have absolutely no understanding on anything other than a most superficial and vacuous level any element of spirituality, mysticism, yoga, RS, Gurinder, science, pyschology etc. I think you are doing nothing but expressing your own empty inner bitterness and imaginging it to be wise & witty, primarily because Brian ensorses that particular delusion because that is how the cult of this blog works, and that you do this for emotional reasons you have absolutely no understanding or grasp of.

I think there is no point discussing RS or Gurinder with you, just as I see no point in discussing quantum entaglement with a child who struggles to count to 20. Deep truths are beyond your capacity, imo. Mindless criticism and bitterness is too facile for me, I'm sure you can manage that self-deception all by yourself - why do you need my help, any child can accomdate your requirements?

But, I could be mistaken. Cheers buddy!

[Jesse]

So, do you have an opinion on the topic of this website or do you just want to cry about me more and more until the sadness and hurt stops? Are you listening to emo music? Maybe some ghazals? Sulk as much as you need. We're here for you.

I personally think there will be riots either at the dera or maybe the delhi satsang ghar. We can get a glimpse of the low quality people who are getting defensive because Brian dares to mention the possible corruption in RSSB. Think how bad these guys will freak out if Gurinder goes to jail.

It'll be scary because unlike some deras, RSSB has a very competent logistics team who could very well apply their skills to urban battle.

[manjit]

"So, do you have an opinion on the topic of this website or do you just want to cry about me more and more until the sadness and hurt stops?"

Am I not commenting on the topic of this website?

Brian's "butt hurt" at being "fired" from a non-job that's meant to dimish ego, and the subsequent 13 years of posts masquerading as genuine love, knowledge, compassion etc for RSSB devotees?

How about discussing how profoundly disgusting and abhorent Brian's attempt to connect "Sheena's" experience with Gurinder where he was FALSELY accused of sexual misconduct and he wanted to make it OPEN but agreed not to upon the lady's request, and making a comment about someone's suitablility to give marriage advice, with the REAL and ACTUAL sexual abuses that are being reported via the "me too" movement?

This is bottom of the barrel insincerity, isn't it? Shall we discuss it?

Jesse "do you just want to cry about me more and more until the sadness and hurt stops? "

Cry? About what? The guru I have been criticising for 20 years online and was never actually initiated by?

Or cry about the abhorent nature of egotistical attention seekers with not a shred of sincerity, knowledge, experience or integrity taking great delight, glee and pleasure in criticising a guru & faith which provides unmeasurable comfort and security to hundreds of thousands of people, simply because it makes them feel good to get so much attention?

[One Initiated]

hey Manjit,

Long time, hope everything is going great!
good to see you back :)

Have a great time.

[Jesse]

You're a bit hyperbolic Maanj. Just a tad bit.

You make it sound like opining on something is a terrorist act. A lot of comnenters here do that.

Must be the lack of freedom in your heart. No revolutionary spirit.

There was an artist who did a piece called "Piss Christ" which was just a crucifix in a bottle of urine. Probably the most disrespectful piece of art of all time. Christians were less upset about that artwork than you spazzy hindus and sikhs are about someone investigating a gurus alleged criminal fraud.

That says a lot about you. A lot of bad things. You're not helping anything or anyone by perpetuating extremist stereotypes at all, and its only gonna make more people leave RSSB and write critically of Indian cults. I'm starting a blog that will make this one look tame. Can't wait to see your sadness and tears.

[manjit]

Dear Jesse - to anybody who even remotely knows me, from my copious posts over 2 decades here (and even more so in real life), will know implicitly and without any doubt at all, that your entire comment above is delusional nonsense completely disconnected from reality at every possible juncture (err, perhaps apart from the hyperbolic bit :).

That says a lot about you; vacuous noise signifying nothing.

All the best!

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Manjit : What do you really dislike about Jesse's no-holes-barred, unapologetic, unabashed and bare-boned disposition ? ( Okay, call me a mindless RS cynic, that's fine, let's get that out of the way ! ) A lot of what Jesse says makes sense. He doesn't feel the need to cajole anyone's sentiments and calls a spade a spade. There's no tip-toeing around comments. There's no " how do I say this politely " ... he's authentic, raw, real and refreshing. The other day, he pointed out something rather interesting about langars - that the people feed themselves. There's always something to learn Manjit, that's how I see it. From Jesse, from Brian, from you.

[manjit]

Hi Bombay Blonde! You ask "he's authentic, raw, real and refreshing."

I can understand why you or Brian like what Jesse writes, because it accords with your current perspective. That's not complicated.

But what is evident, is, that his comments, imo, contain absolutely no knowledge, information or experience beyond the entirely superficial and shallow. Further, he has already admitted he is a troll (that Brian pretended was his sense of humour, despite it appearing more like bitterness from both), and that he has nothing but contempt for RS believers.

In other words, all we are getting from him is troll like comments which are really nothing but ignorant bitterness and cynicism expressed out loud.

I simply cannot see anything in his comments beyond that arrogance and ignorance of any value & information, and something I couldn't teach a child to emulate perfectly despite having absolutely no knowledge, experience or understanding of the subject themself. It is cliched & trite cynicism & bitterness, with nothing else besides - though I CAN understand how mindless and cynical quips would be appreciated by those he is seemingly supporting. I have never been a fan of such superficiality, pro or anti anything. It is vacuous, empty, meaningless.

But to each their own.

[Jesse]

Bombay Blonde, Manjit is mad because I noticed that he uses the word vacuous in every single one of his posts. It's a strange OCD thing he is trying to deal with, but I can't ignore it and as Guru of the whole inhabited earth it's my duty to point out his lack of variety in terminology. My disciples are required to use diverse insults when hyperventilating on the internet using ALL CAPS and exclamation marks.

He also probably didn't study psychology, but wants to psychoanalyze me from a Freudian perspective, which is amazingly weird. When he fails to explain his "quantum" analysis of my "projection!!!!" feelings of deep seated inadequacy bubble up to the forefront of his consciousness and he feels the need to lash out as if I am the creator and not simply the guru, and that i made him intellectually average and less than versatile in his personal expressions.

Instead of insulting me, he needs to learn from me, and pour out his woes on the creator if he's to make any progress in this path of love called Jesse Jaise Koi Nahin Yoga.

[Jesse]

You said vacuous again, Manjit. I thought we talked about this?

[manjit]

Jesse: " I thought we talked about this?"

We did? I thought we agreed I would stop using it when you stopped making vacuous comments?

Your reply to Bombay Blonde suggests you haven't. at all, so I too will continue!

VACUOUS.

Cheers!

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Manjit : Jesse's pro freedom and he's anti Guru-cults. I find myself in the same space, or current perspective like you say. In my humble opinion, the rebels are the most rooted. I wish you well ... :)

[manjit]

Hey Jesse / Bombay Blonde - does anybody want to discuss with me the abhorent nature of trying, desperately and with complete failure, to associate Gurinder's complete transparency with the hidden sexual abuses in the "me too" movement? How low is that?

How about the deeply duplicitous and deceitful nature of preaching for a guru and cult to the masses, and then preaching the complete opposite the very next day because you're "fired" from that position? Is there anything within that guru and cult's teaching which justifies such an instantenous flip-flopping of position?

I mean, what precisely in the act of removing Brian from OFFICIAL RSSB preacher deligitimised the RS teachings and theology that he the day before he was parroting and regurgitating mindlessly? I'm somewhat confused by it?

Cheers!

[manjit]

Hi Bombay Blonde, you write: "Jesse's pro freedom and he's anti Guru-cults. I find myself in the same space, or current perspective like you say. In my humble opinion, the rebels are the most rooted. I wish you well ... :)"

Indeed, such "group-thinkl" is nothing exceptional or difficult to understand. It is, in fact, simple mob or cult psychology.

I have never been a fan of such vacuous intellectual and emotional positioning, myself.

I wish you well too! :)

Manjit

[Jesse]

A trip down memory lane. Understanding the genius of Manjit's very, sophisticated, adult and mature polemic style-

"Entirely vacuous noise. Reality itself will shine through the vacuousness of your comments. How about I stop repeating that when you stop making vacuous and irrelevant noise? I think you have absolutely no understanding on anything other than a most superficial and vacuous level. That says a lot about you; vacuous noise signifying nothing. It is vacuous, empty, meaningless."

Still waiting for an opinion about RSSB's sale of charity-owned land to for-profit company in part owned by head of RSSB charity. Sounds shady to me. Maybe tie that into what looks here to be a damage control PR operation by the Dera which is being called a "meeting of secretaries."

Is it big news? A nothing burger? Something in between? Is focusing on the alleged criminality of the head of RSSB simply.... VACUOUS? Let's find out.

[Jesse]

"How about the deeply duplicitous and deceitful nature of preaching for a guru and cult to the masses, and then preaching the complete opposite the very next day because you're "fired" from that position? "

Makes no sense. He was fired for essentially preaching against the guru. Why are you focused on something that happened years ago anyway as if it's relevant to what is happening in RSSB today? That's a really weird deflection.

"does anybody want to discuss with me the abhorent nature of trying, desperately and with complete failure, to associate Gurinder's complete transparency with the hidden sexual abuses in the "me too" movement? How low is that?"

You don't know what the word desperation means. And what was the "complete transparency?" What are you even talking about? This is gibberish.

"I'm somewhat confused by it?"

I think you're discussing life i general here.

[manjit]

Hey Jesse, I get it - you want to focus on something other than your own complete lack of knpowledge, understanding & experience of RS, Gurinder, Shabd yoga, yoga of any sort, mystical experience of any sort, history, science, psychology etc, and want to focus on a guru and path you have self-admittedly never been too attached to, left years ago, have no current connection to, and have nothing but contempt for the followers of etc.

Well, we must all have hobbies, however pointless & evidential of unexamined psychological issues they are!

But I want to discuss something else, Brian's deceit and duplicity, or your self-admitted trolling bereft of any worthwhile content BEYOND that of being juvenile and mindless criticism of a path you actually understand very, very little about (however much that vacuousness appeals to other emotive critics here :).

Can't we have our own interests? You mention censorship, but isn't that what you're trying to do to me and my comments? I shouldn't be surprised, the level of ironic projection of your own issues upon me and other posts has been breathtaking & astonishing!

[Al]

Jesse/tAo

[Jesse]

"the level of argument and knowledge you would expect from a petulant child. "

"You are like a 5 year old child discussing quantum science in the conceptual framework of silly putty."

"but rather pointing out the absurdity of trying to discuss quantum mechanics with a child who cannot count to 100."

"Oh, hold, nothing, because I'm not a child."

"I see no point in discussing quantum entaglement with a child who struggles to count to 20."

"why do you need my help, any child can accomdate your requirements?"

"I simply cannot see anything in his comments beyond that arrogance and ignorance of any value & information, and something I couldn't teach a child to emulate perfectly"

You're eerily repetitive, Manjit. Children, counting to small numbers, randomly saying "quantum", cynicism, projection. It's the same words and themes over and over again but no substance.

And for a supposed non-Satsangi, you're EXTREMELY defensive about Gurinder. I actually wonder if it's not that you weren't initiated by choice, but rather not allowed to be because of reasons I won't mention here. One thing I've learned in life is that those who say that everyone is projecting are usually the projectors themselves.

[Jesse]

AI, are you saying you think I'm tAo? If so, you're wrong.

[manjit]

Jesse: "Makes no sense. He was fired for essentially preaching against the guru."

Huh? No my somewhat confused & ideologically disposed friend, he was "fired" FROM preaching FOR his guru. Please note I clearly understand what happened - I was the one who predicted he would be "fired" only just prior to him being so. It wasn't because he was "essentially preaching against". That is absolute nonsense and delusion, and clear evidence you have absolutely no grasp on the dynamics of what is going on here, at all. But you keep defending your new guru.

Pay attention - whilst I may realise you have exceptionally little insight into RS, Gurinder, RSSB, Brian, this blog etc, there are others who delusionally imagine you DO have some insight (simply because you're a critic of RSSB.....that's all it takes!! :) - don't let them down with your constantly vacuous and erroneous posts.

Jesse: "You don't know what the word desperation means. And what was the "complete transparency?" What are you even talking about? This is gibberish"

Oh boy. Somebody anonymously claimed that Gurinder was having an inappropriate relationship with "Sheena". He wasn't. He wanted to let all his regional secretaries or whomever to be told of the allegations.

For Brian to somehow, disgustingly & manipulatively, associate this kind of complete "transparency" with the ACTUAL sexual abuses revelaed by the "me too" movement I feel clearly demonstrates the nature of this blog and it's owner, the honesty, sincerity, decency etc.

To each their own sagacity - don't let your cultic affiliations, either pro or anti RS, sway us to obvious and self-evident truths.

[Jesse]

If you want to talk about yoga, let's do that, Manjit. I've done a fair amount of it, read nearly every RSSB book printed before 2010, read some ISKCON books and listened to a lot of lectures by various yogis. I certainly have views on the subject.

But you'll have to go get your inhaler out of the cupboard and calm down first so that you don't have an accident while you angrily rant about how smart you are and how stupid everyone else is and how they don't know anything, and everyone but you is a vacuous child who can't quantumly count to 3 because they're projecting thie deceitful cynical vacuousness!!!!

[Al]

Jesse is tAo

[Jesse]

Ok, Manjit, you're a satsangi. There's no way you could be this defensive and not be. It's literally impossible. You're also a borderline psychopath and a dolt, but that's beside the point.

You're lying. Just like Dharam, and One Initiated and everyone else who pretends that it's not what is said about the guru, but the possible inaccuracies that bother you. You're just here to uphold journalistic integrity lol. That's what you want me to believe.

You, maybe more secretly than others, are super upset that your lame guru is being exposed as a fraud. So you come here and pretend like you have a problem with the ethics of the way things are reported on this site.

"Dude, I'm totally not part of that cult BUT DONT EVER INSULT THE GURU AGAIN!" GTFOH man. You're the weakest.

[Jesse]

AI is wrong and doesn't know where to find syntax analysis tools online.

I am not tAo. Was never tAo, and will never be tAo.

I know who tAo is because years ago when Brian published my "I'm leaving RSSB" rant here, tAo was a commenter. I don't do multiple names on websites like some. I'm Jesse.

[Al]

Oh come on Jessy Yollanda you little bitch get some sense of humour. It was a joke i thought you knew.

[manjit]

Dear Jessie - out of your stupefying & vacuous comments & juvenile attempts at humour above, I have managed to extricate two semi-coherent questions:

1) Jessie: "Ok, Manjit, you're a satsangi. There's no way you could be this defensive and not be. It's literally impossible. "

Me: Well, beyond your vain & delusional imaginings, narrative and projections, let's have a little look at actual real world facts, should we? Please bear in mind, I have been posting online here and RSS forum for almost 2 decades, have communicated with numerous people privately, and actually know a few personally (such as "Osho Robbins").

I have never been initiated. I have not attended a satsang or seen Gurinder in person for 12 odd years. This includes, for example, when he held satsang an hour's drive from my house on a weekend I was free a month or so ago, and which "Osho Robbins", despite also claiming to not be a satsangi, also attended and had a discussion with Gurinder. I simply couldn't be bothered and have no interest in it. During that time, both yourself and Brian, alleged "exers", have been posting daily about Gurinder & RSSB. During that time, I have not thought about him or RS at all.

Now, these are simply facts. Weave and project whatever delusional & self-serving narrative you want around that, but they might be more persuasive if you somewhat retain some connection to actual reality?

In view of the above facts & your demonstrably untrue claim here, may I suggest you haven't got the faintest idea what motivates me or my emotional state of mind, whereas yours and Brian's are obvious and evident?

2) Jesse: "If you want to talk about yoga, let's do that, Manjit. I've done a fair amount of it, read nearly every RSSB book "

Why would I, or anyone else, what to discuss such a complex and nuanced subject as yoga with somebody as obviously ignorant and dishonest as you? Do you remember the last time you thought you could have a substantial discussion with me? Remember, when I provided with plenty of factual substance to your request, and your only reply was "this is a garbage discussion" and other juvenile "butt hurt" comments?

So you've read books, well done! I even know somebody who WROTE RSSB books, yet had less than zero personal, experiential knowledge and insight into the reality RSSB presents! (hint; you are incredibly sycophantic towards this person :). Did either of you realise that the books state concepts and intellect are no substitute for experience?

I think, Jesse, your potential contribution to such subjects can be summarised in a comment you made last time I discussed "mystical experiences" and altered states of consciousness with you; you said "being the "zone" during sport" is "about as close to a mystical experience as is possible", or some other such profoundly mistaken, experientially & intellectually ignorant and arrogant comment.

WOW! Such complete ignorance of the potential of human consciousness and experience!

Why don't you at least get some basic, fundamental, for the masses,pop-conceptual knowledge (experience is harder to get) of that which you speak so arrogantly and dismissively? Try reading this book, for example, which was a top 10 best-seller!:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stealing-Fire-Maverick-Scientists-Revolutionizing/dp/0062429655

You are so out of your depth it's incredible, you don't even have a grasp on basic fundamentals & experience!

Being in the "zone", be it during sport, during socialising or during "seduction" is par for the course on any mystical path - in ways you could not even begin to comprehend, my friend.

And that that is merely "beginner's phenomena" is something, evidentially from your own comments, way, way, way beyond your current capacity of understanding and experience. It is your mistakenly placed pride in cynicism & bitterness that blocks you off from ever being able to learn and understand what I am talking about here, as you're appear more interested in the childish and meaningless games of ego that are played here, by those who have nothing else.

You can read the above as however you like. I trust in truth and have no concern for your delusions.

[Marko]

Jesse i quite know Manjits story and can asure he is not initiated.
But i still hope you can open heart for him cause he really has much knowledge but knowledge aside he is relly nice person with no gimmick.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Jesse
Don't take Manjit too seriously.

He is a wise soul in a devil's advocate body.

If you haven't been torn to pieces by Manjit yet, you haven't really lived.

John the club!

His exceptional scholarship is worth it. And his good intentions always come through.

The one thing Manjit cannot tolerate is any harm to innocent people anywhere.

We all share that here.

[Jesse]

"my emotional state of mind,"

Yes, Manjit, I noticed that you're highly emotional, too.

Manjit has said nothing today other than that he thinks I'm stupid, as well as repeating the word "quantum" about 500 times, and creepily talking about children a lot. Why everyone insists that I like him or give him a chance is beyond me. He's worse than the other loquacious one who after many, many, many words fails at saying ANYTHING.

"You don't know anything, children count to higher numbers, quantum things, delusional!You don't know anything, children count to higher numbers, quantum things, delusional!You don't know anything, children count to higher numbers, quantum things, delusional!You don't know anything, children count to higher numbers, quantum things, delusional!You don't know anything, children count to higher numbers, quantum things, delusional!"

If this passes as evidence of a powerful intellect to some, I hope all universities in the world get shut down tomorrow and Pol Pot becomes king of the world. That guy is ridiculous.

[Jesse]

"you said "being the "zone" during sport" is "about as close to a mystical experience as is possible", or some other such profoundly mistaken, experientially & intellectually ignorant and arrogant comment."

You're an illiterate retard, Manjit. I didn't say that, though the analogy is in the ballpark. And I didn't have that conversation with you if I recall, which means you and your many thoughts about children use lots of different names here. One more super creepy point for you. Makes me wonder if I should contact that Pakistani guy who is doing the grooming investigations in UK.

I said what I said specifically in regards to the concept of enlightenment as was being discussed, which often is loosely described as a state of hyperawareness, or expanded awareness and a sort of effortlessness in ones actions. This comes up in religious texts often."Do without doing" type of stuff. It's something I've seen people "in the zone" experience personally, but never have I met someone who sits and babbles mantras a lot achieve it temporarily or permanently. They just yammer a lot and behave emotionally as you claim to do. I feel for you and your strong feels though. It must suck.

[manjit]

"Makes me wonder if I should contact that Pakistani guy who is doing the grooming investigations in UK."

Wow!

Creepy indeed brother, creepy indeed.

Still, you retain your legendary, errrm, "wit", I see........

VACUOUS.

[manjit]

Jesse: "Manjit has said nothing today other than that he thinks I'm stupid,"

Yes, I'm engaging with you PRECISELY on your level of interaction on this forum!

Why, don't like it?

Awwww.

:)

[Jesse]

You obviously haven't read my comments if you think you're emulating me, just as you didn't read Brian's testimony as to when, and why he was "fired" from RSSB.

You're a liar.

[manjit]

"You obviously haven't read my comments if you think you're emulating me, just as you didn't read Brian's testimony as to when, and why he was "fired" from RSSB.

You're a liar."

Just how does one engage with furious but vacuous noise signifying nothing, having no substance, reality, truth etc?

Engaging with you is so easy, because you're saying nothing at all. It is all noise and pomp born of a bruised but inflated ego hiding behind absurd claims of "humour", without any substance at all.

[Jesse]

Manjit, when people make confident claims about the nature of reality, and I can break their claim apart with only a few words ie a guru whose supremacy is proven by his ethics has stolen millions of dollars thus disproving his claimed supremacy, then why get into anything else?

That's what I'm here to discuss, and you've yet to make a rebuttal. Do it or shut up.