Religious believers ignore reality, while making up fantasies

After fourteen years of blogging here on the Church of the Churchless, I'm not surprised anymore by this evident fact about most religious believers:

They make two mistakes. They ignore aspects of this evident physical reality that conflict with their chosen religious dogma. And they embrace fantasies about supernatural realms that almost certainly don't exist. 

Thus religious believers close their eyes to what can actually be known, while making up stories about what is unknown -- such as what, if anything, lies outside the bounds of our universe.

Here's some examples of what I'm talking about. 

I've written several posts about recent stories that reputable Indian business publications have published about a guru's highly questionable financial involvements. (See here and here.)

These are well-researched stories that lay out in considerable detail how Gurinder Singh Dhillon, the guru of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), is deeply enmeshed in the tale of how two brothers, Malvinder and Shivinder Singh, who are relatives of Dhillon, have lost billions of dollars through shady business deals.

But RSSB true believers refuse to accept the facts that are right in front of their eyes, even going so far as to consider that the guru is orchestrating the bad press about him as a test of how devoted and obedient his devotees are.

Obviously this is crazy.

But since crazy is the foundation of every religion, including the teachings of Radha Soami Satsang Beas, followers of the guru who comment on this blog, such as "One Initiated," have resorted to name-calling and insults because they are unable to come up with facts to refute the tell-all stories published by Bloomberg and Business Today.

(Additional stories about Gurinder Singh Dhillon and the Singh brothers have been published by other organizations.)

What's obvious to everyone but those head-in-the-sand acolytes is how readily religious believers ignore facts that threaten their belief system, while accepting extremely spurious dogmas that have no demonstrable evidence to back them up.

I'm proud to be a member of the Truth Telling Club. We aren't an actual club, of course. But I feel a close connection to everyone who does their best to accept reality as it is, and to dismiss fantasies that aren't real.

This is difficult work. It requires research, an open mind, a willingness to admit errors and mistakes, a heartfelt commitment to following the truth wherever it leads. 

By contrast, religious believing is easy.

So is ignoring facts about the ugly side of one's chosen religion, such as the sleazy financial dealings Gurinder Singh Dhillon has been engaging in while he supposedly was dedicating himself to both his own spiritual uplift and that of his disciples.

The good news is that the truth always wins out. Reality always has the last word. Why? Because truth and reality are vastly more powerful that falsehood and fantasies.

Likely there is more truth to come out about the RSSB guru's financial dealings.

We live in a world where secrets are difficult to keep, even by the rich and powerful.

Fortunately, our world has plenty of people who value honesty above lies, truth-telling above dissembling, straight talk above meaningless blather. Religions likely always will be with us, but I'm confident that their power will diminish as reality increasingly comes to be valued above fantasy.

Comments

[One Initiated]

Brian,

It's much worse bad mouthing the Masters.
Which you and the fellas are doing over and over again.

And all the words I used I learned only from you and Jesse.
the only difference is you used these for Masters and I used (only 1% of) them for the culprits.

[Brian Hines]

I bad mouth the Masters because, like I said in this post, I've joined The Truth Club.

Meaning, I've always been committed to finding truth, but I now have been enlightened to the fact that during my true believing RSSB days (35 years, actually) I wasn't honestly seeking truth, but was content with pleasing fantasies.

I can't blame you for still being in The Falsehood Club.

I know how difficult it is to break free of dogmas that seem so satisfying because they aren't true. It takes courage to face reality as it is, rather than as how we would like it to be.

I hope you find that courage one day. Indeed, I hope everybody does.

[Neon]

@One Initiated, don't you think the followers of Ram Rahim and Asaram had the same mindset as you? They thought their "masters" were infallible, that they could do no wrong.

But that didn't stop anything did it.

[One Initiated]

Neon,

Good point. My answer is No

Being in India I do come across followers of Gurmeet Singh and Asumal,
however I have not met a single one who could claim to have been through inner experiences.

Essentially they were not even Gurus in the first place. Thus your statement is actually wrong.

By HIS grace, I am in contact with, not one but few,
who constantly receives HIS darshan and are living always in a blissful state.

And by HIS grace the current Master Baba Gurinder Singh Ji Maharj
has revealed HIS grandeur on me and that has left not a minutest scope of doubt.

As mentioned many times even by Brian that it's the game/illusion of our mind.
I questioned: "why don't you recreate ?" Can you ?
Ofc he skipped that and didn't respond.

Instead of spending quality time in meditation,
If you only find the wait and watch policy your best guide,
you will only going to end up wasting ultra precious years of your life.

Here I totally agree with you Brian, the Truth wins, it shall and will win.
And we all are approaching to the same common truth: Death.

I believe everyone should at least think for 5 minutes,
what exactly you are doing in your life, except following the automated process of reaching your death. What's the actual goal of your life, except meeting the death ?

For me, nothing is more shameful than to have wasted this precious human life,
where one even after coming under the feet of True Master, couldn't enter into that Territory.

[777]

Talking about the google "Nice-Matin"+777+Vivaldi happening at the beach
I said to a cousin, an architect
"If I did put the moon at the other side of the earth as a proof , without any tidal damage or so
would you believe me ?"

He said : I would believe you are a great magicien, . . that's all"

And he was right

As some Masters were roasted, crusified etc , I don't think we can solve all this
We cannot look in each other's brain
Only Herman's writer could ( Herman's Head TV series )
In the astral sphere we can

I hope that Truth will prevail sept 25th

777

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian!

Reading your recent posts, including your self - congratulatory ones, has given me a renewed and revised picture of what is right and wrong about your position.

1. You seem, post after post, to constantly focus on what is wrong about other people who do not believe as you do.

2. You return to arguments again and again that have been disproven, demonstrating the intractability of your position.

In other words, facts be dammed. And so you are guilty of your primary argument against others.

For example, your view of Atheism.

Why do you care how religious folks describe Atheism?

They aren't Atheists. It's not up to them to get it.

And furthermore, are you so sure you can accurately group all religious people alike in your depictions?

To claim Christians are ignorant about the facts of Atheism is just as reasonable as the claim that all Atheists are clueless about Christianity.

Atheism is a range of beliefs. Many fine Atheists have written about Atheism spanning a wide range of views: From the passive scientific view holding no belief at all, because of the lack of quality scientific evidence; to the extreme Atheist zelout view, believing firmly that not only there is no God and cannot be a God, but adding the views that all such beliefs are terribly wrong and harmful and should be actively fought, and indeed that the existence of a system of belief in God of any kind is harmful to humanity.

This has been discussed here ad nauseum.

But you seem incapable of acknowledging a different viewpoint, even one so simple.

Then your posts about the business dealings in India....

You fail to understand the separation of these personal issues with the Teachings.

The Teachings are verified by our practice alone. They are a set of natural tools for our own personal development.

There is a lot of hard science on meditation that supports the positive benefits of such practice.

In terms of the practice, which every Saint claims is the whole point of their teachings, the hard scientific benefits support the value of that practice, cultural wrappings aside.

How much return we get personally each can verify for ourselves.

But that entire line of reasoning you dismiss as unrelated.

As Maharaji wrote

"You see, we can only live in the will of the Father when we don't live in the will of our mind."

This is the point of Meditation, to raise us beyond our current thinking to a larger perspective through our own personal practice.

Whether you believe that or not is entirely separate from the fact that this is the core of Sant Mat teachings.

You are creating a straw man by refusing to acknowledge those teachings and instead focusing on what you perceive to be the flaws of individuals.

All individuals here have flaws. We wouldn't be here otherwise.

But our capacity to understand them rightly, at a distance, is a miss-use of the capacity we were given to understand our own.

Brian, all the evidence about other people means nothing if your own ability even to understand the nobility of Atheism remains undeveloped.

Atheism does not depend upon a criticism of anything or anyone else.

And so long as you make Atheism dependent upon the human flaws of others who believe differently, even your own understanding of Atheism and ability to practice a deeper understanding of reality has a very flawed basis.

Your philosophy of truth cannot be an argument of what is wrong with other's beliefs or behavior.

When will you get beyond that? That is the day you will help your loyal and loving followers here in this church you yourself made, to do the same.

Atheism can stand quite powerfully on its own two legs, and, in combination with meditation practice, reflects a healthy lifestyle, and does not require anyone else, conquering anyone else, fighting anyone else.

..

[Spence Tepper]

When anyone walks into a new church they do so with the hope for a new belief they can live by with greater peace and happiness.

Some may take solace in the comfort of knowing they are not the only ones who left the last church. And they may find a momentary personal acknowledgement in sharing their difficulties with their old church

But to spend their days in the new church simply commiserating about the old one actually makes them dependent upon that complaint.

That takes them nowhere.

[Brian Hines]

Spence, your comments are entertaining, because they are so hypocritical. You say that I shouldn't be critical of "other's beliefs or behavior." Yet you criticized my beliefs and behavior. Don't you see the hypocrisy, or are you so deep into the depths of your religious dogma you're unable to see what you're doing?

I'm content with my philosophy of life. I enjoy pointing out the flaws and dangers of religion. I revel in learning the truth about this world, which, in accord with the scientific method, involves pointing out falsities -- such as unfounded religious beliefs about the existence of God and supposed God-realized people.

I fight for the truth. That's what I've been doing on this blog for fourteen years, and I'll continue doing it. Thanks for participating in this fight by regularly visiting this blog and commenting on my posts. When religious believers like you feel threatened by my posts, I know I'm doing something right.

[One Initiated]

hi Spence, long time !!

I hope you are doing good and everything is well !!

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian

You wrote

"I'm content with my philosophy of life. I enjoy pointing out the flaws and dangers of religion"

Me too, even when that religion is scientism.

"I fight for the truth."

Which version?

"When religious believers like you feel threatened by my posts, I know I'm doing something right."

Really, you need other people to be threatened in order to feel right?

[Brian Hines]

Spence, I'm a citizen activist here in Salem. Conservatives in this town don't like me, or my writings. Often when I've testified at City Council meetings the conservative councilors will make critical remarks about me. I enjoy that, because it shows that they're worried about what I'm saying.

Likewise, I find it both amusing and interesting that religious believers like you spend so much time responding to my posts, trying to find weaknesses in my arguments. That shows me that you, and other religious believers, feel threatened by my truth-telling.

If you were really confident in your beliefs, you'd be doing something else than commenting on an atheist blogger's posts. I suspect you recognize that my arguments are powerful attacks against false religious dogma, so that rouses you to try to protect your belief system.

I spend exactly zero time on religious or conservative/ Republican blogs, because I don't see any point in doing this. They have my views; I have mine. C'est la vie.

So no, I don't need people to feel like they are threatened to know that I'm doing right with my truth-telling. But it's a good indication that I'm on the right track.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi "One!"
How you doing?

[Bombay Blonde]

Good post, Brian.

RS believers make every effort to justify why their Guru and his dealings are void of fault. But unlike the teachings, corporate fraud is a tangible truth that doesn't need multiple interpretations.

I wish the believers would stop placing stories above reality, but their diligence in believing fervidly opposes reason and points at the age old problem about faith - that there is some reward for devotion to their Guru-deity.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian

You wrote

"If you were really confident in your beliefs, you'd be doing something else than commenting on an atheist blogger's posts. I suspect you recognize that my arguments are powerful attacks against false religious dogma, so that rouses you to try to protect your belief system."

Brian, you're not actually attacking my belief system at all. You're attacking something else that you've labeled" my" belief system.

I don't visit here to learn about Sant Mat. You are not entirely knowledgeable on that subject.

Maharaji wrote

"The real love and devotion should all be diverted within, towards the meditation."

Since you repeatedly fail to acknowledge this core teaching from your own Master (and mine). It is clear your understanding of the path is flawed.

As a psychologist I'm interested as to why you cling to your own depiction at the expense of hard factual evidence to the contrary, such as Maharaji 's quote.

I'm also interested in Atheism, and honestly, you do a terrible job representing it, which is surprising. I think it's because you spend so much time attacking other individual's beliefs. But Atheism, which has its foundation in Stoicism, is a rich and noble tradition.

Count me as an Atheist in that tradition!

If you spent more time on Republican websites maybe you'd understand them better, and that might actually help your political efforts to actually get something done. Just saying...

[seeker]

One Initiated - What inner experiences are you talking about brother? The ones that are completely created by your mind? Do you know that everyone has different experiences within depending on their sankaras? One does not need a God in human form for you to have those experiences. One needs a guide, that's it. No human being can be perfect irrespective of their awareness.

Why don't you read about Baba Faqir Chand, he told the truth about Sant Mat like no one did. He was even backed by the Baba Sawan Singh. Checkout some history. The inner experiences do not make your Guru perfect. Do you even know what Guru is? Guru is the Shabd roop i.e. light and sound.

Kabir rightly said

गुरु को मानुष जानते, ते नार कहिए अन्ध ।
होय दुखी संसार मे , आगे जम की फन्द ।।

This clearly states that if we start calling human being as a Guru then we are blindfolded.

We will be unhappy and will be tied down to this cycle of birth and death.

My dear your own true self is your Guru, you do not need anyone outside who acts like a God. I feel so sad that so many people are blindfolded in this age in the name of Santmat.

I hope this makes sense.

Thank you.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian hello

Let it go man! You are just burning yourself up now.

The Beauty of it is that Maharaj Charan is still going to save your ass. Learn to relax abit 😀

Im sleepy and hot in this god forsaken place - laters mate!

[Sarah]

I’m not an atheist but I do know that if any of you RSSB-ites went to a psychologist here in America and said that you worshipped a this guy who you believe is God and that he leads you on all sorts of weird and wonderful “trips” inside... well, you’d be referrred to a psychiatrist. And if you went to the psychiatrist he would give you a diagnosis that would require a script for antipsychotics, or possibly the doctor would suggest a stay in a mental hospital. That is not an exaggeration in the very least. Please give it a try.

The US mental health care system doesn’t View this “God-man”/inner experience stuff the same way India does. Very seriously disconcerting.

My word for the mental health of anyone who follows a man and believes that he is God and sees/hears things while they’re awake is “questionable”. Very questionable to put it politely.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Sarah!

There are several psychologists who are Satsangis.
A psychologist would not do as you say.

They would determine whether you were happy with the lifestyle you chose, whatever it was, and work to help you adapt to your current environment. They might suggest that you avoid making any such claims.

And there are very few Satsangis, none I know after 30 years on the path, who would share their personal love for their Guru in terms of 'God In Human Form' with anyone.

Even Baba Ji told a Satsangi in front of thousands that to conclude he was God was the height of presumption and to stop doing it.

Sarah, you are using a depiction of Sant Mat, and Psychology, that is quite slanted in your assessment.

I think it would be more honest for you to say "that sounds crazy to me." Even good devout Satsangis would accept that it does indeed sound crazy.

It does.

But some things that sound crazy turn out to be true.

Most of the Matter you see around you, walls, cars, the sun and the planets, are actually empty space.

Science has proven some very astounding things in what little science has actually confirmed.

However that sort of astounding truth can't be shouted. It can't be taught. It must be experienced.

Besides, God In Human Form is very much dependent upon your definition of God. If you are an Atheist then it really is fantasy to you.

But your reality is limited to your thinking and experience, just like mine and others.

So we are going to find reality as different as each of us.

And we should respect that.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Sarah
Sometimes the craziest things turn out to be true.

"Your theory is crazy, but it's not crazy enough to be true."
Noel's Bohr

[Jen]

Hi Sarah, no need for a psychologist.

A mystical experience is a particular state of consciousness that can change your life forever.

"This moment can only be described as “ecstatic” in that you experience your connection to life expand significantly. In this moment you feel that life is full of beauty and sacredness, but this feeling and phenomenon is somehow objective and outside of your individual self."

We're not crazy, we just have an experience of being more than we are, a oneness with all that is, a different kind of consciousness which is entered into when meditating.

I feel sorry for the earthbound 'this is all there is' type of person.

[One Initiated]

Dear Spence,
Thanks, good to see you back online.

Dear 777,
Couldn't agree more.

Dear Sarah,

Just hope that the "psychiatrist" you will send us to,
is not an RSSB initiate - ha ha 🙃

Alright, even if actually the "psychiatrist" will do all what you said: SO WHAT ?

Your above comment is only relevant if you consider the USA Mental Health dept.
as the ultimate place on this earth.
Which even you don't consider true,
as you said "I’m not an atheist" - so whatever believe you hold other than RSSB
will also be proven false by these psychiatrists.

Thus none of us (including you) are going to waste their time with them.

[One Initiated]

Dear Seeker,

"Guru is the Shabd roop" - very true and so the disciple.

However, you as a disciple still exist in human form too.

Baba Sawan Singh Ji were in Human Form.

Kabir Saheb Ji, whose lovely verse you've used,
had He not appeared in Human form, you were not writing the above verse.

Are you initiated ?

[Osho Robbins]

@one Initiated
you wrote to Brian
"Brian,
It's much worse bad mouthing the Masters."

Much worse than what?

When you make a statement like that, the statement is not complete unless you explain exactly what you are comparing it to.

And how do you know and decide what is good or bad or better or worse?

What is your evidence for making such a statement?

Brian is pointing out articles of news that are already news, not hearsay.

The news articles are also on the official RSSB site.

Do you feel it is your job or duty to protect RSSB or the singh brothers?

watch this video
https://youtu.be/xpZr7_es0FY

its just like the believers on here who cannot understand logic,
and are making logical falacies in their arguments

[One Initiated]

Dear Osho,

Btw, I didn't get a chance to receive you ever since you got back here after quite long.

Hope you are doing great and good to see you back :)

You did post that video quite long back too, and I did watch it.
I thought it was clear and Brian did understand that.
If it wasn't for you, here we go:

Reference from AdiGranth:
"Sant ka nindak maha hatiyara"

meaning:
An abuser of the Saint is a great killer.

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Osho

Did you check out the free Langer article along with the others posted on RSSB? 20M meals served free every year?

Just sayin'

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, your quote assumes there is such a thing as a Saint. Actually, there isn't. Even Gurinder Singh Dhillon agrees with me, since for several years he has been telling people in his talks that he is just an ordinary human being, no one special.

So maybe it's time for you to stop believing in pre-scientific holy books like the Adi Granth and get with the modern version of Sant Mat the RSSB guru is now teaching. I've done RSSB a service by writing several posts that describe the updated teachings, which I mostly agree with, because they are pleasingly atheistic. See:

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/08/gurinder-singh-completely-upends-sant-mat-dogma-.html

[Spence Tepper]

"Brian you wrote

"I've done RSSB a service by writing several posts that describe the updated teachings, which I mostly agree with, because they are pleasingly atheistic"

So now you claim Sant Mat is really your brand of Atheism?
And you are providing a link to your own teachings, claiming these are Baba Ji's?

Why not let Baba Ji's own representatives handle that?

https://www.rssb.org/index.php

"By performing the meditation practice according to the teacher's instructions, individuals can realize the presence of God within themselves."

Brian it's one thing to have a different belief and to speak to your personal beliefs. It's another to put words into someone else's mouth.

That's no Seva.

[Spence Tepper]

https://www.rssb.org/index.php
"By performing the meditation practice according to the teacher's instructions, individuals can realize the presence of God within themselves."
Sorry Brian, you aren't an RSSB rep.

[One Initiated]

Dear Jen,
Loved reading your response to Sarah,
that was put up nicely.

Dear Brian,
that's the humility of Saints,
None of the Saint of history has ever called Himself a Saint.
They always take the name of their own Master and refer themselves as a disciple.
Baba Gurinder Singh Ji has an extremely down to earth, simple and stylish persona.

Guru Nanak Ji said: "I bow to those who see Him inside"

[Brian Hines]

Spence, you aren't a RSSB rep either. Below is what the guru himself is teaching, according to someone who recently had a 20 minute public conversation with Gurinder Singh Dhillon.

So it looks like I'm right and your outdated link from the RSSB website is wrong. There is no realization of God, according to the guru, because we already are there (leaving aside what "there" means). See:

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/08/gurinder-singh-completely-upends-sant-mat-dogma-.html

And in case you're wondering, no one has challenged the accuracy of what Osho Robbins reported below.
-----------------------
I was at Haynes park on the Sunday before the UK national satsang.

I went on the mic and had what can only be described as a most intriguing conversation with the Baba of RSSB.

The exchange between us went on for approximately 20 minutes.

This is what he stated clearly in that conversation:

(1) You are right, there is no journey because you are already there and you just have to realise it.

(2) You are correct in saying there are no regions.

(3) I have never read the Sar Bachan and what it states there is just a story, not literal. None of those regions or the lords of the regions exist.

(4) There is only the ONE. There is no individual soul. So you don't actually merge back. You are already there.

(5) Don't focus on the physical master. I am only here to clarify. I am just a human being like you. I cannot forgive sins. I cannot erase karmas.

(6) Meditation just means to quieten the mind and turn inwards and let go and realise who you are.

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, here's a more likely possibility. Gurinder Singh doesn't call himself a saint because he knows he isn't one.

[Spence Tepper]

Brian, I get that you really want to believe what you have posted is what Baba Ji believes.

But anyone can go to the official RSSB site and read what it says.
That's Baba Ji's organization.

Osho is not an RSSB either. Neither am I, which is why I posted the RSSB link. Read it. It's different than what you claim.

[Spence Tepper]

Brian, neither you nor I are RSSB reps. . That's why I gave the link and quote from Baba Ji's site. That's His site, not your nor Osho's words.

[Spence Tepper]

https://www.rssb.org/index.php
Osho isn't Baba Ji's rep either Brian. Jeez how hard is it to go to Baba Ji's site?

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian
You wrote
"So it looks like I'm right and your outdated link from the RSSB website is wrong"

But maybe it's not quite so black and white...Maybe both are correct :

"The opposite of one truth may not be false. It may be another truth."
Niels Bohr

Why not go within and find out?

[Brian Hines]

Or, since you have such an affinity for the RSSB gurus, why don't you simply accept what Gurinder Singh Dhillon is teaching now, rather than believing that you know more than he does?

As I'm fond of pointing out on this blog, religious believers such as yourself twist themselves into knots in order to preserve the dogmas they hold so dear. Simple truths are ignored, while complex fantasies are embraced.

Rather than accepting what the RSSB guru is saying, you want to create your own "gray zone" that somehow encompasses two contradictory teachings, Sant Mat v.10 and Sant Mat 2.0/3.0

Likewise, rather than accept the simple truth that the guru is enmeshed in some unsavory financial dealings, RSSB officials are offering up a complex tale of how Gurinder Singh is somehow controlling the reporters from Indian business publications in order to test the obedience of his disciples.

When something smells like a pile of crap, it usually is.

[Brian Hines]

Spencer, Gurinder Singh is playing with your mind, along with the minds of other RSSB true believers, and you're only going to get the joke at a very late date -- after most other people have understood what is happening.

I've heard that Gurinder Singh doesn't even live at the Dera any more. He lives in Singapore, only traveling to the Dera when he has to. He is play-acting at being a guru, while his main role is that of a businessman. He says one thing to Indian audiences, and another thing in his English satsangs.

These facts are obvious to anyone with an eye to see, but you choose to keep your head in the sand. That's your right. I'm just here to point out the truth about RSSB and Gurinder Singh, which is much different from the viewpoint you're clinging to.

The RSSB web site, which you believe to be accurate, says this:

"The present teacher is Baba Gurinder Singh, who lives with his family at the main centre in northern India."

So keep this in mind as more facts come out about where Gurinder Singh lives. Like I said, I've heard that he lives with his wife in Singapore. Maybe this is right. Maybe this is wrong.

Regardless, it is either right or wrong. Gurinder Singh either lives most of the time in Singapore, or he lives most of the time at the Dera. I say Singapore. So let's see how this turns out in the next days, weeks, or months, as more facts come to light.

[seeker]

One Initiated - Your comment does not prove any point. What are you trying to say?

I already quoted from Kabir's teachings which clearly states that the outside human body should not be called a Guru or God. You can only find God from within, one should not make the outer form as God like how people do.

I quote from the Granth Sahib too: Bani Guru Guru Hai Bani which means the true Guru is the bani which is sound and light within rest all is made by mind.

I request you to go through some of the books written by Baba Faqir Chand. He clearly explains everything. The form of the Guru you see within is your own mind, everything you see (regions, forms) are created by your own mind.

Yes I am initiated.

[287daysleft]

Sasha Shulgin described himself in an interview as "agnostic," despite the following statement that kicks off the book PIHKAL:

"I deem myself blessed, in that I have experienced, however briefly, the existence of God. I have felt a sacred oneness with creation and its Creator, and--most precious of all--I have touched the core of my own soul."

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Brian
Comments and observations about any individual, news reports, gossip at long distance, even Osho's regular reports which, oddly, are only consistent with his own long standing views, and flattering to yours, have little to do with the teachings. Teachings that are remarkably consistent through the ages.

Three points for you.
1. There is no such thing as supernatural. That is your straw man. Everybody and everything is part of the same creation. We experience and understand what parts we, or science, have access to, and that is quite different person to person. Meditation simply expands our understanding, our field of perception, experience and thought: When we do it in a an unbiased, calm environment.

We are just returning to where we are. We experience the ripples, we see those waves in the surface that move through us, that make impressions upon our mind. But we are the pond. Our journey through the stars and regions is really just back to the center and then to the whole that we were always connected to. But this is an immense whole.

The problem is that living through the brain we are largely unconscious of that greater existence. And when we leave the brain in idle to return to that center, whatever we experience there often makes no impression on the brain. We often have no memory of what was astounding internal experiences within for this reason.

So when we return here, we are still stuck here with all our narrow thinking, opinions and biases and just a vague impression of something awesome and greater. In a way each of us has two separate and in some ways unrelated lives. Meditation is the practice of bringing the two together gradually into consciousness.

Advanced in meditation, we can see both, though not at the same time usually, only briefly. The Masters live in both simultaneously.

These truths are not only found in spiritual literature consistently down through the ages, but more importantly, become our daily experience. Then the books aren't necessary. To get to the point where you could actually burn the books is a very noble goal.

2. There is no divine spirit unconnected to this creation. It isn't in some higher region alone, as your book falsely claims.

You can experience the Spirit here and now because it is connected to all things, just like waves of energy that hold all the tiny invisible particles/ waves we see as huge and pervasive matter all around us. Matter is mostly empty space, though in our day to day experience it is perceived as quite different.

The earth seems large and massive. But it is largely empty space, and within that space there can be many, many earths. Physics has already confirmed some of this, which a subtle look around with a developed sense of vision reveals. Were you to compress all the empty space out of this creation into one solid ball of matter, that ball would be microscopic in size.

And as nature abhors a vacuum, the empty space isn't empty at all. Just not currently measurable, not part of this dimension or plane, to use a mental term. In truth it is all one creation. So you might define the regions as levels of our own perception of them. But all the things in each region are right here. They are called regions because our perception of them unfolds in those stages, though that is also subject to individual variation.

3. Living here, we are all subject to our limitations, to lust, anger, greed, attachment and pride. We have our prejudices, our biases, our desires, our genetics, our conditioning, our culture of time and place and precisely because we are so conditioned we are really pushed in specific ways as a leaf on the surface of water is easily blown about by the wind. But the water is not so readily moved. As we move our consciousness up, or into the very center, that empty place, we are not so easily influenced. And gradually our spiritual limbs, long asleep, awaken, and we realize we are a much larger being connected to all creation.

But having to enter a dynamic world of action, a particle of the creation in time and place, we can easily succumb and lose that center, and once again be that leaf easily pushed, easily corrupted.

Hence the necessity of personal discipline, a quiet life, and constant effort at meditation.

As for all the current events, they are predictable. And every player must go through that destiny.

But try to see it from a larger perspective. When you read a newspaper article, try to read between the lines, and then question your own presumptions in doing so.

When I wrote before that you should let the courts do their job, that is truth Brian. It is not necessary for you to be judge, jury and executioner. The courts are doing the work they need to do, and there is wrong doing as well as some noble sentiments. Let the courts sort that out.

Because there is a greater mystery within each of us worthy of pursuit, and which requires our full attention. And most importantly, you will never understand what is going on within someone else as well as you could understand what is going on inside you.

Those people in the news are undergoing intense scrutiny. They don't need ours on top of that. Not does your opinion at this distance add any factual value at all. But we should most certainly apply some scrutiny to ourselves. And if we don't, then we are the fallen ones.

Because those in the news should have more closely scrutinized their own behavior all along. So let's take a positive lesson from this and realize how remiss we have been in our own personal duty.

[s*]

That is beautiful 287 days left!!

Thanks!

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Sarah :
I’m not an atheist but I do know that if any of you RSSB-ites went to a psychologist here in America and said that you worshipped a this guy who you believe is God and that he leads you on all sorts of weird and wonderful “trips” inside... well, you’d be referrred to a psychiatrist. And if you went to the psychiatrist he would give you a diagnosis that would require a script for antipsychotics, or possibly the doctor would suggest a stay in a mental hospital. That is not an exaggeration in the very least. Please give it a try.

And, Sarah, what would this psychiatrist diagnose if you told him that you believe that your ancestor got kicked out of a garden for eating an apple at the instigation of a magic talking snake, and that for this heinous predilection of your ancestors for apples all of your ancestors' descendants, including you, have been sentenced to a miserable life and an even more miserable hereafter. And that the guy who kicked out your ancestors sent his only son on Earth to enact a particularly grisly piece of play-acting, so that you could be forgiven for this inexplicably unacceptable appetite of your ancestors for apples? What would the psychiatrist diagnose, and what would she prescribe?

The fact is all religious ideas are batcrap crazy *. None of it -- no religion, anywhere -- makes any kind of sense. Anyone sporting these ideas would be certified for life to a loony bin : it's just that these religious ideas are so very widespread, that you can't commit people for crazy religious ideas.

( * Unless, that is, there turns out to be some overriding evidence, if only overriding subjective evidence, for the teachings of any religion. And I'd say the chances of that are no more for one particular brand of religious ideas than another.)

.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Sarah, merely pointing out that by these eminently reasonable standards of yours, some 90% of the world's population would qualify as crazy. (Using the figures from Wikipedia for numbers of followers of particular religions.) Even assuming that only half of those who tick religion boxes actually believe in the teachings of those religions, that would still mean that around half of the world's population are crazy.

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong, mind, merely pointing out the full implications of what you're saying here.

[Appreciative Reader]

Incidentally : the pewforum.org numbers (which are probably more reliable than some Wikipedia stats) indicate that around 85% of the world population (not 90%) say they're believers.

So that, if half of those who tick the religion box in census forms actually take the teachings of their religion at all seriously, then the number of believers would be nearer to 40% than 50%.

Not that that makes any difference to the substance of my argument. Just clarifying an error, which is no more than a detail, that had crept into my earlier comment.

[Joe]

While Shabd Meditation can take u naturally & sweetly beyond the endless wall...

Great music can be induced through dmt.

https://news.sky.com/story/paul-mccartney-i-saw-god-and-linda-came-back-to-give-me-a-sign-11487608?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

On another note...

http://zdoggmd.com/incident-report-179/

Creatures that see reality as it truly is…go extinct.

We evolved to see the world through symbols that HIDE reality.

That’s the provocative result of research done by Donald Hoffman, Professor of Cognitive Science at the University of California, Irvine .

[Brian Hines]

777, regarding your recent complaint that I delete 3/4 of your comments, that is flat-out false, so I deleted that comment. The truth is, I only have been deleting your wildly off-topic, preachy, and incoherent comments that are impossible to understand.

So you need to take the rest of September off from commenting. I'm tired of dealing with your inability to abide by this blog's commenting guidelines. I've warned you numerous times about this, and you keep on ignoring me. As I've said before, commenting on this blog is a privilege, not a right, and you've lost that right for the rest of the month.

If you leave any comments from now until October 1, I'll delete them as soon as I'm able to do this.

[287daysleft]

Strangely science has become the new fundamentalist religion. As Bernard Haisch notes:

"Science has, in some ways, taken on the mantle of a religious orthodoxy whose mantra runs something like this:

Science tells us about physical reality. It cannot tell us anything about any possible non-physical realities. Since non-physical realities cannot be investigated by science, they do not exist. End of story.

Fundamentalist scientism, which has squelched a large portion of the scientific imagination, has many far-reaching implications. Adherence to the creed fosters a conviction that the only possible reality is that explored or conjured up by physics and limited to matter and energy. It inculcates a belief (presented as fact) that science has proven God and immaterial intelligences to be merely leftover antiquated myths. It encourages a view of consciousness as something limited to a bit of brain chemistry, ..." p.75 The God Theory

.

[Dungeness]

He says one thing to Indian audiences, and another thing in his English satsangs.

Are you referring to those "no journey, no regions" remarks?
Shocking? Not really. He's explaining that it's a metaphor,
not gainsaying it. There's no new RSSB dogma. No version "X".

Mystics will agree though the individuated soul has contracted
its consciousness and forgotten its real identity which is "God"
(or "Totality of Consciousness" if that's clearer). So it's only a
"journey" in the sense of reclaiming that identity. Whether you
term it self discovery, self realization, or just expansion of
consciousness, the end point is the same.

The "journey" may not even include a sojourn in "inner regions"
or even mention them. No brochures, no descriptive travelogue.
The focus is on a shift in consciousness, a transformative
awareness... not outward spectacle. That's the real journey.

So in that sense, there are "no regions", "no journey". A drop
just realizes what it is. It doesn't have to travel back to the
ocean. It's already there.

[Dungeness]

He says one thing to Indian audiences, and another thing in his English satsangs.

Are you referring to those "no journey, no regions" remarks?
Shocking? Not really. He's explaining that it's a metaphor,
not gainsaying it. There's no new RSSB dogma. No version "X".

Mystics will agree though the individuated soul has contracted
its consciousness and forgotten its real identity which is "God"
(or "Totality of Consciousness" if that's clearer). So it's only a
"journey" in the sense of reclaiming that identity. Whether you
term it self discovery, self realization, or just expansion of
consciousness, the end point is the same.

The "journey" may not even include a sojourn in "inner regions"
or even mention them. No brochures, no descriptive travelogue.
The focus is on a shift in consciousness, a transformative
awareness... not outward spectacle. That's the real journey.

So in that sense, there are "no regions", "no journey". A drop
just realizes what it is. It doesn't have to travel back to the
ocean. It's already there.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - what evidence have you got that Gurinder is living in Singapore?

Please don’t say “sources”. Have you seen him there?

God if we in the forces relied on sources we would be dead most of the time ha.

Trust but verify.

I’m not standing up for Gurinder as he is a big man and can do that himself - before you have a pop at me 😀

[One Initiated]

Brian wrote:
"I've heard that Gurinder Singh doesn't even live at the Dera any more. He lives in Singapore, only traveling to the Dera when he has to"

Plain and straight forward False.
This statement of yours could be proven false within few seconds of visiting the rssb website.

Take a look at the Satsang schedule here: https://www.rssb.org/satsang_schedules.php
which excludes the foreign Satsang programmes.

You can not even imagine to travel this much year over year even for your fun and without the task of delivering a discourse.

And He is travelling for the spiritual betterment of millions of human beings.

He is carrying an enormously huge task on His shoulders and beautifully completing it year over year.

[Brian Hines]

One Initiated, so you don't know where the guru lives. You're just guessing. Well, I've heard from a credible source that he lives most of the time in Singapore, with his wife. That's where the guru's children and grandchildren live, Singapore. And that's where he has received medical treatment, Singapore.

So like I said, let's see what additional information and facts come forward about the guru's primary residence. You provided no information that proves it is false that he lives in Singapore. But that's what I'd expect from a RSSB true believer, guessing.

[Sarah]

@Appreciative Reader
I never said I was a Christian or Jewish or Muslim. I have said on this site that I appreciate the teachings of “Jesus”—whoever that was—that emphasized forgiveness.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - end point - you don’t know where he lives either!

Why does it matter anyway - you have left the Path???

Why spend the limited time you and all of us have chasing information on what is irrelevant.

So goodbye for humanity - like getting your blog advertised and donating the proceeds to a soup kitchen for orphans! So called intellectuals and atheists as well as believers have caused enough kids to become orphans!!!

Do good man!!! Instead of this crap!!!!

[Arjuna]

“So do good for humanity”

[Appreciative Reader]

Quote Sarah : @Appreciative Reader --- I never said I was a Christian or Jewish or Muslim. I have said on this site that I appreciate the teachings of “Jesus”—whoever that was—that emphasized forgiveness.

Hello, Sarah.

No, I did not for a minute mean to imply that you’re a Christian, or a Jew, or anything like that. In fact, I never even read your earlier comment, that you refer to here, where you say you appreciate the teachings of Jesus.

You suggested to One Initiated that his particular religious beliefs are psychotic, and especially that US psychiatrists would deem them such, correct? Well, I assure you the US is chock full of people who would, basis this criterion, be deemed equally deserving of a straitjacket.

Think about all the people you yourself know. Think about all of your own friends, your own extended family, your colleagues. I’ll wager a not insignificant proportion of these will either be observant Christians (of whichever denomination), or observant Jews, or observant RSSB-ites, or observant Muslims, or observant Hindus, or whatever.

Mind, I’m not talking of the whackos, I’m not talking of the religious nut jobs, who are obviously a small minority within the believers. I’m speaking of your garden variety believer here. I’m speaking of the perfectly sane, perfectly decent and kind and civilized people, fully functioning members of the community they live in, people who believe in the insane bronze-age fables thought up by ignorant goatherds that are the Old Testament, and/or the equally irrational (if somewhat less rabid) pronouncement within the Gospels, and/or the perfectly crazy contents of the Koran, and/or the pretty but fantastic stories that comprise much of Hinduism, et cetera.

All of these people, should they go to a psychiatrist and spell out their actual beliefs (beliefs basis which they spend a not insignificant portion of their money/time/effort), then by rights they ought to be certified psychotic, wouldn’t you agree? Yet psychiatrists don’t do that -- despite the obvious insanity of these beliefs -- precisely because these beliefs are so widespread, and because we all seem to have somehow arrived at this de facto consensus (quite incorrectly, in my view!) that crackpot religious ideas get to be evaluated on a different standard than other crackpot ideas.

Given this, your effectively labeling One Initiated’s religious beliefs as psychotic, while not necessarily incorrect, seems to me a flagrant case of special pleading. Because by these standards, probably as much of 40% of the world’s population would qualify as psychotic.

(At least, it would be flagrant special pleading on your part, unless you also happen to be of the view that a very sizeable chunk of the world’s population, including many of your own colleagues and friends and family, are actually crazy and in actual need of medical treatment. If that is what you honestly believe, then sure, then I can get behind the internal consistency of your beliefs when you tell One Initiated that his religious ideas are literally crazy.)