Here's the truth about when I started criticizing RSSB

Falsehoods bother me. Including falsehoods about me.

Like the completely unfounded rumor that I started criticizing Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), the Indian spiritual group I belonged to for 35 years, after I was fired as a speaker at meetings of the group.

I've noticed this falsehood popping up in recent comments on this blog, most recently from "manjit." Like so many religious believers, "manjit" is repeating a conjecture that isn't correct, but since it feels good to spout it, it gets spouted.


Well, here's some truth-telling. I've shared it before in comments, but I wanted to write a blog post that I could link to when the Brian was upset when he was fired, so he started criticizing RSSB lie surfaces again. 

Actually the truth is just the opposite: after I started critiquing RSSB on this blog back in 2005, I was told that I could no longer speak at RSSB meetings (satsangs) because my blog posts were making RSSB devotees upset and uncomfortable. 

Read all about it in "I was fired," an October 2005 post.

Well, my Meister Eckhart fantasy has been fulfilled. I’ve been fired from giving talks (known as “satsangs”) at meetings of my spiritual group because my Church of the Churchless writings have been too heretical.

Yesterday our local secretary informed me that he had been told by a regional representative, Vince Savarese, that my blogging about Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB) had caused a lot of people to be uncomfortable. In New York. In India. All around the RSSB world.

Naturally I blurted out “Wow, that’s great! People are reading my blog!” It didn’t bother me to hear that I’ve been making some people uncomfortable. I regularly hear from others that they appreciate my posts, so it all evens out. Yin and yang. Like and dislike. Attraction and repulsion. That’s the way of the world.

Regardless, the RSSB powers that be don’t want me to be a speaker anymore. I said, “That’s fine. Now the folks at the Radhasoami studies discussion group who have been taking bets that I wouldn’t last as a speaker beyond mid-2006 will feel vindicated.”

Interestingly, it was "manjit" who wrote that October 2015 discussion group post linked to above who said about me, "Yes, he's writing some interesting stuff. I now often check out his blog," then predicted I wouldn't last as a satsang speaker past mid-2016. 

"Manjit" was wrong about the timing of that, just as manjit now is wrong about why I was fired as a satsang speaker. I guess he's forgotten the early Church of the Churchless blog posts that made RSSB devotees uncomfortable.

My turn away from RSSB and organized religion began long before October 2005, and the posts I've written since have been motivated by a commitment to truth-telling, not resentment at RSSB. 

Here's links to some of those pre-October 2005 posts, along with excerpts:

January 2005: "Religious questioning is natural"

I’ve become a bit of a Sant Mat “heretic,” just as you seem to be. Maybe more than “a bit of” in fact. My quest these days is to discern the essential in spirituality. The rest seems to be in the realm of religion, not mysticism or what I like to call spiritual science. There is a lot of religiosity in RSSB even though this path supposedly isn’t a religion. When blind belief and faith are elevated over direct experience and questioning, I call that a religion.

March 2005: "All masters but one are false"

This has been one of my criticisms of Radha Soami Satsang Beas (RSSB), the spiritual path that I’ve been associated with since 1970. Gradually over the years it seems that personal experience of the divine gained through meditation has been downplayed in favor of fawning guru-worship. Disciples are urged to surrender to the master, who is expected to take them back to God if they simply have faith and believe. Well, if that’s what I wanted I would have remained a Christian.

June 2005: "Cults, religions, and science"

I “signed up” for RSSB some thirty-five years ago precisely because I wanted to be a member of a non-religious spiritual group. Now, either RSSB has changed or I’ve changed. A third alternative is that both RSSB and I have changed: RSSB in the direction of becoming more religion-like, and me in the direction of liking religion even less.

July 2005: "Why I embrace unorganized religion"

When people fall into the trap of saying “I’m a Christian,” “I’m a Muslim,” or “I’m a satsangi” (in the case of RSSB), they enclose themselves in one more layer of illusion. This further distances them both from God and from their fellow human beings. Like this fair façade, their spirituality may be superficially attractive. Yet a closer examination reveals that it lacks depth and is flimsily propped up by artificial supports: dogma, blind faith, self-righteousness, unquestioned adherence to arbitrary moral codes.

July 2005: "More criticism of Radha Soami Satsang Beas"

But the reality is that my current preference for churchlessness is an evolution from my previous attachment to a church—the “Church” of RSSB. So my personal experience with organized religion stems from this source, as does the experience of my correspondent and quite a few others who visit the Church of the Churchless.

If I had remained a Catholic, I’d be focusing on the rigidity, narrow-mindedness, and self-righteousness of Catholicism right now, because this would be the religion that I knew best. Instead, I’m making the same criticisms of RSSB, because that is the religion I’m most familiar with.

My point is that what’s written below speaks of the failings of RSSB and its members. Yet these failings are present in all organized religions, as is pointed out by the author.

September 2005: "Bursting belief bubbles"

However, when it comes to spirituality I really do want my belief bubble to burst. I can say this with some confidence because I’ve been pricking away at my own bubbles for quite a few years now.

“I am a member of a special spiritual group.” Pop.
“My guru is God and will make me just like him.” Pop.
“The course of my life is being guided by a higher power.” Pop.
“If I have a sip of wine I’m a sinner.” Pop.
“There’s only one way to meditate, the way I’ve been told.” Pop.

Some or all of the above statements may be true, but I no longer believe them to be true. Lacking certainty, I hold these beliefs in abeyance.

So these posts written prior to when RSSB "fired" me as a satsang speaker demonstrate that RSSB devotees are wrong when they claim that my criticisms of RSSB stemmed from my being upset that RSSB rejected me. 

Again, the opposite was the case: my critical questioning of RSSB dogma caused devotees to become uncomfortable, which led to my firing. I was pleased to speak the truth as I saw it then, and I'm pleased to speak the truth now. 

Comments

[Jesse]

Didn't I just tell you that he was a guru critic prior to being "fired", Manjit.

Why do you lie so much?

[manjit]

Jesse; Noise

Brian wrote: "Like so many religious believers"

What religion do I believe in precisely, Brian? Falsehoods bother you? They why do you make them so often, factually speaking?

Brian writes: "Actually the truth is just the opposite: after I started critiquing RSSB on this blog back in 2005"

Oh boy - the utter lack of clarity and understanding in Brian's entire self-serving post! THIS "I've been fired" post from 2005 is PRECISELY the post I linked to in my one of my first posts of the day:

http://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2018/09/rssb-calls-1500-2000-secretaries-to-dera-something-is-up.html?cid=6a00d83451c0aa69e2022ad3b02ff4200b#comment-6a00d83451c0aa69e2022ad3b02ff4200b

Indeed, I am the "manjit" from the RSS forum that Brian mentions in this very post from 2005 who was "taking bets" he would be "fired"!!

Brian's repeated ignore-ance of my reminding him of this tells it's own tale, I feel.

However, let's look closer at those pre-October posts Brian mentions.

Yes, they were critical - but they were in context of him being an official speaker and author for the organisation. There was literally NOBODY suggesting you would be relieved of your duties at the time, because your posts were NOWHERE NEAR as CRITICAL as they became instantaneously upon your being "fired" (revealing choice of word, btw :).

And THAT is precisely the point, and why the esteemed David Lane said:

" I say he stays on unless he is booted."

To which I replied "I never mentioned what would be the CAUSE of his retirement from
satsang.
...

I would be nuts to place bets Brian would cease holding satsangs
simply because he's in a 'different' place, perhaps. I'm actually
counting on there being Beas officialdom pressure being
applied.....somehow or other......"

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/radhasoamistudies/conversations/topics/97467

I think these comments reveal the true nature of your blog comments back then, seeing as they were without the benefit of hindsight and foresight, and are not now being used to create self-serving & egotistical narratives of any integrity that was never there.....nobody believed you would "leave", including yourself. You were getting too much attention.

Cheers though!

[Brian Hines]

manjit, you use a lot of words to cover up a simple fact: I caught you in a falsehood, and you are unwilling to admit it. This is the mark of a religiously-minded person. They cling to false beliefs, even when facts to the contrary are pointed out to them. I was right. You were wrong. And unlike you, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong. But in this case I was right.

Go through the archives of my blog. You'll find that I wrote about many subjects prior to October 2005, and I wrote about many subjects after that date. RSSB was just one of those subjects.

[Jesse]

In which Manjit lies and backpedals again. Didn't you just say that he was never critical of the guru?

And didn't Brian just post lines which he spoke which were critical of RSSB and the guru?

Now after lying multiple times you are saying "ok it's not that he wasn't critical, but he got MORE critical! Yeah that's what I meant the whole time. Noticing this is noise. Don't notice that I'm a liar, plz"

[manjit]

Brian: " you use a lot of words to cover up a simple fact: I caught you in a falsehood,"

Huh? You use a lot of words to cover up a single fact, too; neither myself or David Lane for one moment considered you would leave RSSB of your own accord.

Not for one solitary moment.

You know, likes loads of other people have done, like myself for example, your "True Believer" friend!

Spin and weave that whatever way you wish in your own inimitable style.

Here's a clue, my dear brother, here's a clue:

"Integrity will take you to the reality."
Nisargadatta

Brian, calm down, I'm merely offering a consideration for your wise & discerning readers for just why you have never had a single mystical experience in your entire life and why you know think we live in a cold, meaningless, mechanical universe within which we are mindless meat robots and why existence is utterly futile and nihlilism is the true philosophical outlook on reality.

[manjit]

Jesse: "noise".

Dear Jesse - I had enough insight into what Brian was doing, and the RSSB organisation, to predict he would be fired and that he would not leave of his own accord.

Twist, distort, manipulate emotionally etc those simple facts whichever way you wish.

I have de facto demonstrated my accurate (indeed, predictive :) awareness of the subject.

Unlike Brian, this is not some news story or anonymous accusation that has been forwarded to me which I then publicise for attention & to unduly take credit for it; those were my own thoughts, spontaneously shared, without motive. That it turned out to be reality is incidental...and should reveal something beyond the "noise" of this forum.

But, judging from all your posts, it is evident reality is of no interest to you.

Vacuous and substance-less noise signifying nothing is more your cup of tea. Knock yourself out bro!

[Jesse]

Manjit: busted

Good job at moralizing. Got caught being a compulsive liar in just a handful of comments. Congrats.

[manjit]

Jesse: "Got caught being a compulsive liar in just a handful of comments."

By both yourself and Brian insinuating I am a liar spreading mistruths, perhaps a clarification is in order.

It is apparent neither of you understands what "integrity" means or signifies on a spiritual path.

Here are the facts, again.

Brian was an official preacher and author for an organisation.

At no point was he considering leaving this "dangerous" cult he still preaches about now, but from a critical perspective.

Then, he was fired.

Overnight, his level of criticism went through the roof (from a level of "criticism" where both I and David Lane had NO DOUBT that Brian would leave himself......can ANYONE imagine Brian not leaving with his current level of attention, sorry, errrm, criticisms? Anyone? No?).

Integrity?

Sincerity?

Read between the lines.

YOU decide!

[manjit]

Okay, it's clear there is no more substance - or even any substance - to deal with here.

Jesse: "noise"

Brian: "me, me, me"

Gurinder is bad, the worst. RS is a cult. There no mystery to consciousness or creation. All is mindless mechanical entropy. Existence is entirely futile, nihilism is the truth.

This where you are lead, when all the noise and bluster of self-seeking attention masquyerading as a concern and compassion for truth dies away.

Meaningless nihilism and futility.

:-o

My profound blessings to you all, it's been so much fun :o) ....although a little disappointing at how fragile and fleeting all these facades are....

[Jesse]

Manjit, acting outraged won't change the fact that you just got caught lying.

You being the big brain nibba that you are, don't you think that after years of reading reports of financial misdeeds by the guru of RSSB would maybe, just maybe, add to ones negative views of a religion they were once part of?

Or are we required to take a single position on a religious organization, and stick with that position in its entirety regardless of any new facts that are revealed?

That sounds dumb, Manjit. Really dumb.

[manjit]

Jesse: "Manjit, acting outraged"

Am I acting outraged?

It feels suspiciously like amused, to me, though? Perhaps that is symptomatic of my many psychological issues, as can be attested to by numerous people who know me?

Jesse: "Got caught lying"

Did I? Is that so because you keep on repeating it, or because your guru Brian keeps denying it? Which of these 2 deceptions of yours makes me a liar?

Hey, here's an idea, try reading this post date stamped before Brian was "fired":

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/radhasoamistudies/conversations/topics/97467

Brian didn't leave, he was pushed.

He was so, so far from leaving, that neither myself or David Lane entertained that idea for a moment.

Integrity.

As I said before, you can distort these simple facts, or misrepresent what I actually intend to mean, in whatever way you wish, and create one of those "verbal-only-realities" you keep producing out of your mouth.....I really shouldn't be surprised your realities and egos are so darn fragile.....they are merely vacuous noise!

Jesse: "That sounds dumb, Manjit. Really dumb."

:(

I don't know what offends me more, this or when you were dropping letters out my name?

Oh, wait, I really couldn't give a monkeys......we're not all Brians you know, I couldn't care less how I sound or appear to you!!

Can I log off now, or shall we play some more vacuous noise signifying nothing? :)

[dharam]

Brian
you say you started criticising RSSB before you were fired from sewa of speaker.it shows your immaturity.a mature man would have resigned frim sewa of speaker citing the reasons to the master first and would have waited for his resoonse for some time before starting criticism.
Did yiu think that you will be able to close santmat.no,it cannot be closed because there is no other simpler way for self realisation and mental peace to the seekers other than santmat.that is why more and more people have joined santmat instead of more and more criticism.and criticisers will go more and more distant ffrom self realisation due to their ego and as you spoke as a speaker that they will go to the lower species instead of being at the top of ladder of 84. now you will say you do not believe in all that. but your belief or criticism is not going to change the law of universe or law of karma.
oh,i luckily remembered.i wish to thank you for your book'Life is Fair'. you are great but unlucky fellow bkz now a days yiu do not believe in Law of Universe or Law of Karma.

[manjit]

Well, I have to be honest, I never really read this post initially - I've encountered Brian's deceptive and manipulate smokescreens several times before and over almost 14 years. I've had great fun with the vacuous "discussions" here today, but I thought I should add at least one more serious response, so I've read this post semi-fully.

To clarify, Brian infers in the self-defensive screed above that I am saying he only started "criticising" RSSB AFTER he got "fired". This is a "falsehood". Because, there is a difference between "critical" thinking and criticism.

The facts are, Brian was a preacher and author for the organisation, and had no apparent intention of leaving. Whilst he was expressing thoughts and ideas which were, as I stated at the time, "interesting", they were nowhere near the level of criticism we saw explode almost overnight from that day.

This is fact.

And it is evidenced that neither myself or David Lane for a single moment thought Brian had either the integrity or level of disillusion with the guru and organisation to leave of his OWN ACCORD; he would have carried on with his high-profile position unless pushed, or at least that's what me and David Lane thought at the time (and, actually, so it happened in reality too; nice to have reality on your side in these delusional discussions :). This is simply fact:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/radhasoamistudies/conversations/topics/97467

I am NOT claiming there was no level of "criticism" or, more accurately, "critical, rational" thinking about RSSB before Brian got fired; this ridiculous inference suggests I am not aware of Brian's posts prior to then, which makes my "prediction" even more remarkable, doesn't it?

No, that is a smokescreen. What I am actually getting at is a slightly more sophisticated argument which brings into sharp focus Brian's alleged "love of truth" that my ORIGINAL comment to Spence about started this whole discussion. What kind of a "love of truth" or whatever is this "spirituality" and "faith" that is so clearly dependant on material position and recognition? How do you go from, factually speaking, preaching FOR somebody to preaching vehemently against, without any notable knowledge or experience to de-mark the change, other than the obvious affront to ego? Yes, this is about a love for truth and integrity. Or lack thereof.

Now, 13 years later, Brian preaches ideological materialism, nihilism & futility under the guise of "spiritual independence", and is extremely critical of RSSB on a daily basis, and takes overt glee and pleasure from all the recognition he gets from it.

Fair enough, each to their own I suppose.

Before I go, though, I find Brian's putting quote-marks around my birth name, Manjit, quite revealing. We've had this discussion before, too, where he also falsely accused me of using multiple usernames - I never have and never will! Clearly he either doesn't believe me, or has forgotten. C'est la vie!

I find it revealing because it clearly demonstrates Brian's un-examined prejudices and paranoia based on his ideological and fundamentalist faith in reductive materialism and a meaningless, futile universe.

When he recounted "Sheena's" story, despite "Sheena" clearly being a pseudonym, did he ever put quotation marks around here name and her anonymously recounted story? No.

When he told the story of "Tara" (Bombay Blonde?), probably another pseudonym, did he use quote-marks every time he mentioned here, like he does to my name above? No.

These are anonymous people making highly subjective and unsubstantiated critical claims, almost certainly using pseudonyms.

I, on the other hand, have been posting here and RSS for 18 odd years using the same real name. Multiple people have communicated with me before in private, and I have even met several people in person, such as Osho Robbins. I have also clearly explained this to Brian several when he openly claimed, falsely, that Manjit is a pseudonym. If it is, it is the one my parents gave me and is also on my birth certificate.

Despite all this copious evidence that I am indeed "Manjit", Brian continues to put quotes around my name, suggesting deception on my part.

This is blatant double-standards (again, INTEGRITY) as well as deceptive and manipulative. Such a dishonest approach coloured so strongly by one's personal biases and preferences one can only assume is applied to everything Brian analyses?

Caveat emptor.

I leave any readers who have been reading my posts over the years, have contacted me privately - or met me in person like Osho Robbins or Chris C (MBW), to decide who is being deceptive here with this selective "manjit" business.

G'nite my fellow truth lovers and seekers :)

[dharam]

Manjit
Relax ! Brian is going to study santmat books written by him and other santmat books kept in his library.Then he will meditate for some days and will let phase 3 version of his views on santmat.May be he becomes preacher of santmat again.

[dharam]

correction in my previous comment
Brian will post phase3 version of his views on santmat in his blog.

[Whisper]

Oh wow... Brian, the level of bs in this post is transcendental.

[Jesse]

" If I write long academic manifestos that declare how honest I am based on the fact that I use my real name online, the lies I just told 30 seconds ago will disappear."

Manjit. Integrity personified.

[Arjuna]

@ Brian - I have been thinking! I think Master will be just fine and things will carry on as before !

Watch this space - note I am neither for or against this path at present.

And yes the facts are there for all to see - however people will move on.

Just watch and see time will tell! I personally want closure

[Spence Tepper]

Hi Colleagues
Manjit, chill.
Brian's doing a great job, the work assigned to him to keep the objective standard of truth in front of us all.
Frankly, if it took his separating from Satsang duty to do this duty, this is the higher Seva.

Because RSSB isn't just a teaching, and not a monopoly of the truth.

It is also an organization of people, brought together based on need, desire, Loneliness, pride, and humility. It's all there. Even a growing dose of holier than thou.

There's no breathing room there.

So, thanks Brian.

[Spence Tepper]

And by the way Manjit, when you aim you brilliant laser at real I issues your writings are equally brilliant.

But to pick apart the bethel shortcomings of another hard working and earnest human soul is actually beneath you. Avoid it.

[Jesse]

Don't use my name, clown. I don't love Manjit. I'd go to his funeral to laugh at his family.

On the subject of integrity, isn't he the guy who likely used university grant money to wander around India like a hippy looking for a compilation of horoscopes of everyone who has ever and will ever live?

Assuming he did that on company time and money, you'd think he would have had the integrity to maybe consider that 10 billion or so pieces of paper might not fit in a dingy shack in Mohali.

[Joe]

Brian's history of going from active membership of a religion then to atheist blogger is a good example of "integral" levels of development. While once at the "mythic" level or perspective, he has moved on to the "rational" level or perspective. Both possess a truth, but both are partial perspectives. The danger is that when an individual is at a particular level of development they tend to believe that what they are perceiving is the truth. As a result, I am sure that Brian wholeheartedly believed in the R.S. story back then, just as he wholeheartedly believes in his atheist story now.

Culture wars are all about one level pitting itself against another level, as in religion versus science etc.

It begins to become rather droll after a while, especially when you start to see what is actually going on.

[Brian Hines]

Joe, I've read some of Ken Wilber's books, so your mention of integral levels of development reminded me of Wilber's philosophy. Some of it rings true. Some of it doesn't.

The question I have relates to your comment about "start to see what is actually going on." This presumes that there is something more real than what appears to be real. If so, how could one know that reality, and how would one know that this reality is actually more real than everyday reality?

I guess I've become a sort of scientific Zen guy now.

I consider that science is our best way of knowing the reality that can be considered objective, because it can be observed and studied by many people. And I'm attracted to Zen, and also Taoism, because these seem to be wise ways of understanding the subjective reality within ourselves.

And just for fun, I like to throw in a healthy dose of neuroscience -- which casts doubt (along with Buddhism and Taoism) that the "self" actually exists, or that free will actually exists.

Thus we seem to be waves tossed up by the ocean of the universe, not individual ego-selves, soul drops, or whatever. I find this to be wonderfully reassuring, and more believable than the dualistic mysticism I used to embrace.

[Jesse]

I thought the "what's really going on" thing was referring to what he'd mentioned about the culture war that seems to be a side effect of our confidence in the particular vantage point or level that we currently occupy.

[Brian Hines]

Jesse, that makes sense. I was thrown off by the fact that Ken Wilber's levels of development range from lower to higher, which I question. It's pretty darn complicated. This is a brief summation.

http://www.integralworld.net/overview.html

What I question is the idea that Wilber has figured out, as the last part of that link says, "the hidden pattern behind all cultures and views."

Meaning, Wilber seems to believe that he has been able to get outside of his own culture and views, which I seriously doubt. Yes, scientists are able to do this to a large extent, but it takes many scientists to do this, with rigorous checking and validation of theories against observations of physical reality.

[Jesse]

Thanks for the link Brian. It was a hilarious read for the most part.

I'm fascinated less by the merits of metaphysical descriptions as I am of the psychology behind those who get off on making them. It's just like all these conversations I had with my next door neighbor as a kid that someone took very seriously and decided to map out into a system so that they climb the ladder of university and publication house credentialism.

Millions of normal lay people have essentially described something like holons in late night conversations possibly after smoking a bit of weed, but Wilber, he really went overboard with the idea because philosophers have a weird hobby of not stopping until they've invented an entire holistic cosmology in their head. Why we're supposed to take them seriously, I don't know. Listen to John Maus talk for 3 seconds and it might seem less reasonable to respect philosophers simply for using that once-honorable title.

Describing the unseen universe is like making constructed languages or something, except even less useful. This is why Amazonian shamans just sell white people the ayahuasca and hope they leave ASAP.

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Jesse : I was halfway through your comment when I thought of Ayahuasca. Strange. I'm of the belief that there are some good Shamans out there. Buyer beware, but yes, I think one has to find the right one. I don't believe in the reset effects it has on the brain, I just found it relaxing. No insights gained, no lost. Just a high. But, could there exist a possibility that some Ayahuasca, in the hands of a right Shaman, does have the mind healing / altering properties that some speak of ? I'm skeptical. It's a matter of what's spiritually on-trend, IMO.

[Pema Tej]

Dear Brian,

I appreciate your honesty, wit, clarity, and humour.
I don't see any contradiction between practicing meditation the sant mat way, and enjoying reading your blogs. What bothers me is the amount of unfounded hate you receive from those who pride themselves on being spiritual.
I do not have a problem admitting that I hate the haters on your blog posts.
You continue to do you...

[Jesse]

I'd assume there are good shamans and good foreigners who take part in the ceremonies, but then there are also a lot of experimenters, mostly coming from the west but not solely, who want to intellectualize the experiences of ayahuasca and use them as part of their philosophy or to add to their list of essential life experiences. Those are the types I think the shamans would hope just go away and stop treating everything like a science experiment. I say this all from second hand info received from an old friend who was big into the stuff a decade or so ago and struggled to find serious ayahuasca communities.

In writing all that, I realized that I have something in common with Gurinder Singh. I too think westerners tend to apply concepts and ideas to things that just need to be experienced as is and not thought about. But then again, we wouldn't be westerners if we did that.

[Tim Rimmer]

Hey Manjit
Nice to see you back. Mind you with all the discussion and dialogue I feel I’m a bit like the slower tomato trying to ‘ketchup’ with the others…
If all the recent RSSB/GSD posts are true then there’s certainly going to be a lot of heartache and gnashing of teeth in the pipeline.
I remain bemused as to the nature of the so-called changed teachings and what seems to be substantially unethical behaviour. I’ve always believed that the clearer one gets with one’s thinking (supposedly a result of effective meditation), the easier and clearer it is to translate this into ethical behaviour because one no longer just reacts to situations.
I also remain bemused by the apparent lack of response to all this in a general RSSB sense, however my RSSB contacts have shrunk, so I’m out of any loop that may be processing this (apart from this ‘strange loop’ :-) Perhaps Osho has observed what’s been happening in the UK?

Hi Jen - thanks for reminding me of Meister Eckhart - cool dude in my opinion - (was this on a post that has been removed?). It also got me harking after some of the other stuff we used to discuss on this blog. You know simple, uncomplicated topics like ‘Do we have a soul?, Do we even exist? That ‘point’ between being and non-being. Chop wood, fetch water stuff… time to go and water me ‘erbs.

[Brian Hines]

Pema Tej, naturally I enjoyed your comment. Yes, one would think that those who aspire to being "spiritual" wouldn't be so hateful, demeaning, and even profane in their comments.

Look: I'm a political activist here in Oregon. Politics is rough and tumble, as can be discussing religion, spirituality, and, yes, a guru's financial dealings. I always try to base my words on facts, reason, and my personal point of view.

It bothers me, but it really doesn't surprise me, when other people resort to name-calling, because it always is easier to attack the messenger than to address the message.

It's amusing when I share a lengthy fact-filled story from a respected India business publication, then get comments along the lines of "Don't insult the guru!" Um, if you don't like what the story says about the guru, then why don't you present some arguments about why the story is wrong?

I agree with you that meditating the Sant Mat way and reading my blog posts aren't antithetical. But you are a reasonable person. Too many RSSB devotees seem to believe that it is impossible to mix spiritual faith with an embrace of worldly facts.

Actually, this is very much possible. It just takes an open mind.

[Jen]

Hi Tim, you ask "thanks for reminding me of Meister Eckhart - cool dude in my opinion - (was this on a post that has been removed?)"
Yes, the post seems to have gone...

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Jesse : That's correct, it's about finding the right community and the right Shaman, at the right time. NYC has a bunch of ceremonies every night, but I'd never go near one. Ayahuasca is an experience, not just a substance.

A handful of well educated Indians are breaking away from religion. It's just the beginning. It will only get worse for these Guru cults when the Indians start questioning. Gurus adore illiteracy. They think to be illiterate is to be able to experience. Being illiterate means being innocent. Illiteracy equals a pure heart. Illiteracy is somehow related to a faster ascension in the astral planes. Knowledge corrupts, pollutes and is a barrier to spiritual upliftment.

Keep them dumb. Keep them guessing.

[Jen]

BB: "Knowledge corrupts, pollutes and is a barrier to spiritual upliftment."

Depends on what kind of knowledge?

Its really difficult to believe that you two (BB and Jesse) were ever satsangis. I can't understand the gleefulness you display at the so called downfall of Gurinder's nephews business and how you delight in trying to uncover more evidence about Gurinder's involvement. Brian's blog has become a kind of gossip column but he also seems to be enjoying this so very much.

Did you two ever believe in the law of karma, reincarnation, living an ethical moral life, not judging others, doing your best to be kind and helpful... ever?... or were you always vindictive and gleeful at another's demise.

Karma's gonna get ya?

Oh well, I seem to be on a slippery slope here and wondering if my comments might be banned. I keep on telling myself to stop reading and commenting but I also seem to be addicted to this soap opera.

[Jesse]

"Its really difficult to believe that you two (BB and Jesse) were ever satsangis. I can't understand the gleefulness you display at the so called downfall of Gurinder's nephews business and how you delight in trying to uncover more evidence about Gurinder's involvement. "

Does the fact that practicing satsangis today have all sorts of imperfections and outright vindictiveness strike you as even more strange? Shouldn't they be held to a higher standard than ex satsangis?

The fact that there is evidence at all of the family's wrongdoing is the source of my glee because it saddens me that these godmen get away with what they do, and I think this time justice might prevail. Great pleasure can be derived from these sorts of things. It's natural.

[Jen]

"Does the fact that practicing satsangis today have all sorts of imperfections and outright vindictiveness strike you as even more strange? "

Jesse, I no longer go to satsang and don't know many satsangis. I just feel for those who are reading this blog but then, who am I to understand any of this?!

[Bombay Blonde]

@ Jen : Let's get a few facts in line. I have no issue with the Singh Brothers. Where have I let you down ? Please fact check and post. On the contrary, I feel terrible for them because they were the most prominent Sikh family of Corporate India and I still can't believe they got themselves into this mess. ( Why don't you read up on their Uncle Analjit Singh and how he has chartered the course of his businesses. ) I sympathise with the Singh Brothers, how could they be so foolish ? Will you blame this on a real estate crash ? Really, Jen ? Only time will tell what really happened, but whatever's out there in the public domain is straight up unethical. Forget spiritual standards, even by worldly standards it's very, very shady. What is your independent opinion on this ?

I have a hard time accepting the current Guru through the lens of the philosophy, and that's all there is to it.

I'm privy to information that a hundred others are privy to. In fact, it is the Satsangis who are gossiping more than the ex-Sats. Some even feel that they missed the money-bus. ( Unbelievable. ) If you are interested in real RSSB gossip, there are plenty of people I can connect you with, but trust me, it's not up your alley. It's just boring.

I think Jesse was right. It's easier to sell your story than to stick around in a blog translating Spence's experience to an old man who doesn't understand English. You seem to value sheen Jen, but I have no gloss to offer. I'm candid and will continue to be.

If the disgruntled Satsangis stop forwarding what they hear, which is often the right information and some valid speculation, we can talk about Zen Buddhism and gay rights. Come, let's do that instead.

[manjit]

Ahh, well isn't the self-deceit on this page delightful :)

Dear Spence - Your comment is amusing. Mainly because you appear to be repeating things I've written on this very blog within the last 3 or so months regarding the great service Brian is doing etc and how valuable it is? Your repeating it to me as if you are providing some grand insight I hadn't considered (indeed, said numerous times) actually suggests you do not understand my current meaning or purpose, does it not? But let's leave all that aside, I have serious doubts about your current capacity to understand my deeper meaning or purpose. So, instead of trying to censor me, perhaps tell me where I'm wrong? Did Brian not get pushed from his position as satsang speaker? Did his criticism not explode instantaneously afterwards, suggesting no integrity? Does Brian's apparent only concern regarding the recent traumatic news about RSSB with being with how many visitors he gets to his blog, how unflattering his pic was (btw, does anyone REALLY believe Brian didn't go live because it was too early for him, or because he is unable to discuss the subject spontaneously and needed to pre-record a message so he didn't appear, well, clueless? Authenticity, sincerity & real knowledge & understanding is required to speak "live". Honestly, too early!! Haha! :), or Brian posting & praising comments from people who are jumping around from one father figure to another, projecting ludicrous notions of "unconditional love" upon him, who do not understand their psychological issues and the dangers of projection upon an unskilled therapist etc - does any of this concern YOU?

You state about Brian that he: "keep the objective standard of truth in front of us all. " Huh? Is that the "objective standard of truth" which Brian demonstrates in the following comments: "This is a really weird story. It reminds me of the "Me Too" movement in the United States, a groundswell of women speaking out about sexual harassment in the workplace (and any place, really)." & "It sounds like India hasn't gotten on board with the Me Too and Times Up movements, or at least the Dera hasn't " ?

Do you consider these, imo disgraceful, factually inaccurate, dishonest, manipulative, desperate attempts at connecting Gurinder's behaviour with the "me too" movement, to be keeping the "objective standard of truth" before us? Seriously? I call it cultic nonsense, a clear example of saying anything to get attention, pure "virtue signalling" in the sense the label is applied to get sympathy, even though the label does not apply in any sense on any level whatsoever. Deception, distortion, dishonesty, manipulation etc, yes...but objective truth? Thess are morally repugnant inferences to make and it should be obvious to anyone with an interest in truth or a modicum of impartiality.

Dear Joe - agreed on many levels.

Dear Pema Tej - seeing as this defensive post by Brian was about my comment, I can only assume you refer to me with your "What bothers me is the amount of unfounded hate you receive from those who pride themselves on being spiritual. "

Well, this is factually incorrect in both claims made; I do not hate Brian, and I have no pride in anything "spiritual". These are projections of your own and have no relation to me. You should examine what causes such factual falsehoods to arise in your mind, perhaps?

Look, I get it, a lot of y'all are cultic minded people who needed authority figures, father figures etc. This is a basic level psychology. So y'all bounce around from one stone idol to another, projecting all kinds of ideals and noble qualities that may not really exist "out there" in the stone idol. This is all well and good. Really, I have no interest with those who culticly followed RS, and now culticly follow this blog and Brian. However, there will be some people whose association with RS & Gurinder was not cultic or religious, but an expression of a genuine desire for the mystical and all things related. Their association with these groups will be limited, and they will move on and transcend these silly paradigms. They may be at the point where these current round of criticisms are the turning point for their leaving the RS paradigm.

A few people here mention "shamans". Yes. I just feel it is a shame that the shaman of this blog has never had a single mystical experience or realisation in his entire life. It is a shame that he believes, completely delusionally, that such experiences do not even exist. I think it a shame that he is a rabid, fundamentalist atheist, a reductive materialist and follower of the ridiculous belief of "scientism". I think it even sadder that this shaman will lead you to where he is; the "realisation" existence is futile, life is meaningless, consciousness is an accident, and nihilism is the true philisophy.

Beyond all the cultic group games played here, defending this religion or that philosophy, I am merely raising awareness of that fact that your shaman is a master of misery and nihilism, futility and meaningless.

These are factual claims and are evidenced throughout the history of this blog.

Brian now, transparently disingenuously writes things like "I've become a sort of scientific Zen guy now. ", " I'm attracted to Zen, and also Taoism", " Too many RSSB devotees seem to believe that it is impossible to mix spiritual faith with an embrace of worldly facts." etc etc

I mean, come on, apart from Brian, is anyone else really buying all this evidential nonsense and deception?

I've actually read and understood great deals of Buddhist, Zen and Daoist philosophy. I've also experienced many of the "mystical states" that are engendered through these practices.

Brian's mindless, out-dated scientism, fundamentalist atheism, reductive materialism and futile nihilism, cynism of "mystical experiences" etc, his REAL deep down & experienced reality (all these nonsense claims and throwing labels around about like "zen", "taoism" etc is utterly meaningless and disconnected from any coherent reality) is in NO way related to Zen or Daoism. Brian's nihilistic, miserablely futile, limited view of reality is the very anti-thesis of the deeper reality pointed to by these traditions. Brian, with his exceptionally limited exposure to (and capacity to understand, imo) textual sources, exposed instead to such dubious and modern sources as Stephen Bachelor for eg., is reflects a deeply vacuous, superficial, erroneous, misguided approach and understanding of such subjects.

Nihilism, futility, never having experienced a single mystical experience in your entire life etc is not zen, realisation of "no-self", daoism etc. Some people will claim anything, use any label they think will get them attention, make them look wise etc; "zen", "daoism", "spiritual independence"; but, let's not forget, without personal experience of the reality these systems or words are merely pointing too, it's vacuous noise signifying nothing. Any imbecile can parrot words and concepts. If people are impressed by that, they deserve what they get. Fake shamans. Facades.

Pema writes: "I don't see any contradiction between practicing meditation the sant mat way, and enjoying reading your blogs"

Who says there is a contradiction? Yes, you can do both - but that doesn't detract from simple facts, does it?:

1) Brian doesn't meditate the "sant mat" way.
2) Brian is a nihilist who thinks existence is futile and all mysticism and their implied experiential reality to be delusions and hallucinations
3) Brian never had a single mystical experience using "sant mat" meditation or via any other means, his entire life; his comments about mystical experiences are based on ignorance, factually speaking.
4) Brian's grasp of science, philosophy, RS, Gurinder etc is incredibly circumspect and lacking. His desperate desire to be published and recognised doesn't diminish this fact, although people are readily fooled and duped by appearances, titles, position, books etc.

Beyond these facts, you are of course free to project upon Brian whatever experiences, knowledge, motivations, understanding etc as you wish. This is the cultic merry-go-round of putting fake stone idols on a pedestal and then inevitably being disappointed.

My only real advice, my only real passion and motivation for posting here? Watch you don't follow him too deeply into the pit of reductive materialism, a mindless and purposeless universe, existence is futille, mystical experiences are a lie etc etc.

Not only is this pure delusion, a mental creation of misery, it is also purely dangerous, imo. Cover this evident truth up by dropping labels like "zen" or "daoism" all you like, but the reality of your existential futility & nihilism shines through, for example during moments like worrying about what picture of you is used when you criticise the belief, the life-support of many people on an Indian news channel, or when you gleefuly report on how many visitors you get to your blog, seemingly unaware or unconcerned with the gravitas of what is being said, instead focussing on the only important thing; how much attention you are getting. Suffering and misery writ large. But to each their own.

I know people will not like what I write above, and will receive genuine hate from the cult of Brianers (like Jesse's delightful comment to me, ignored by all those here who project that I hate Brian for simply pointing out facts and alternative perspectives: "I don't love Manjit. I'd go to his funeral to laugh at his family". Of course, Brian would call this "humour" and "wit", whilst all RSSB critics are hateful, or whatever other self-serving, double-standard and delusional narrative he trys to fool himself with!).

Hi Tim - Hope you're well! Agreed. It's a shame there isn't a more impartial, objective "forum" where these things could be discussed and unpacked from outside the particularly one-sided and critical narrative there is on this forum. The RSS forum used to be that place - and it was, imo, far more interesting than this one-track blog for years due to the diversity of voices, but changes to the yahoo forums have basically killed that place, yahoo groups are so yesterday!

But my personal interest in RS/SB is limited. I've said everything I've had to say about that over the years at RSS and here (and, you will notice, there is not a single coherent criticism of RS & Gurinder I haven't repeated endlessly years before!I

think there is one important thing here that is being lost, over and over again (and this is why Spence's comments are surprising to me); our own, personal, lived life, desires, passions, path, experiences etc. Why did we get into "spirituality" in the first place, what have we experienced ourselves, what do we believe is possible, how far are we willing to go etc Forgetting all this, it has become a game of cults, of intellectual groups and affiliations. "Babaji is great, Brian will suffer karma, yaay!" or "Brian is great, Babaji is a fraud, yaaaay" etc. Vacuous nonsense, completely irrelevant; but that is the level of debate on this forum, flowing from our illustrious blog leader and guru Brian, where sophistication, nuance, complexity, deep insight etc is not required for appealing to the lowest common denominator. Has anybody actually got any personal experience beyond the worldly, religious, conceptual, intellectual? I am not interested in & with those whose only association with RS and mysticism is in these worldly dimensions, like Brian. He is communicating with other fellow cultists & ex-cultists, people who were following a religion, and now want to follow a more sceptical, atheist religion with another fake role-model at the top, bouncing around from one fake father figure to another, ceaseless projecting (a competent therapist, guru or teacher will teach the student they are projecting. An egotist lacking skill & understanding will claim the projection/praise...)

Anyway, I really got to go now - I'm at work :)

Peace to you all, seriously (no hate :). May you all find peace, happiness, joy, compassion, awe, astonishment etc May the illusion of futility and atheistic nihilism pass promptly for those who find themselves such miserable & dire straights - there is far more to reality than such mundanity!

Cheers, Manjit

[manjit]

Well, my response has been blocked. let's try pasting it in two parts:

Ahh, well isn't the self-deceit on this page delightful :)

Dear Spence - Your comment is amusing. Mainly because you appear to be repeating things I've written on this very blog within the last 3 or so months regarding the great service Brian is doing etc and how valuable it is? Your repeating it to me as if you are providing some grand insight I hadn't considered (indeed, said numerous times) actually suggests you do not understand my current meaning or purpose, does it not? But let's leave all that aside, I have serious doubts about your current capacity to understand my deeper meaning or purpose. So, instead of trying to censor me, perhaps tell me where I'm wrong? Did Brian not get pushed from his position as satsang speaker? Did his criticism not explode instantaneously afterwards, suggesting no integrity? Does Brian's apparent only concern regarding the recent traumatic news about RSSB with being with how many visitors he gets to his blog, how unflattering his pic was (btw, does anyone REALLY believe Brian didn't go live because it was too early for him, or because he is unable to discuss the subject spontaneously and needed to pre-record a message so he didn't appear, well, clueless? Authenticity, sincerity & real knowledge & understanding is required to speak "live". Honestly, too early!! Haha! :), or Brian posting & praising comments from people who are jumping around from one father figure to another, projecting ludicrous notions of "unconditional love" upon him, who do not understand their psychological issues and the dangers of projection upon an unskilled therapist etc - does any of this concern YOU?

You state about Brian that he: "keep the objective standard of truth in front of us all. " Huh? Is that the "objective standard of truth" which Brian demonstrates in the following comments: "This is a really weird story. It reminds me of the "Me Too" movement in the United States, a groundswell of women speaking out about sexual harassment in the workplace (and any place, really)." & "It sounds like India hasn't gotten on board with the Me Too and Times Up movements, or at least the Dera hasn't " ?

Do you consider these, imo disgraceful, factually inaccurate, dishonest, manipulative, desperate attempts at connecting Gurinder's behaviour with the "me too" movement, to be keeping the "objective standard of truth" before us? Seriously? I call it cultic nonsense, a clear example of saying anything to get attention, pure "virtue signalling" in the sense the label is applied to get sympathy, even though the label does not apply in any sense on any level whatsoever. Deception, distortion, dishonesty, manipulation etc, yes...but objective truth? Thess are morally repugnant inferences to make and it should be obvious to anyone with an interest in truth or a modicum of impartiality.

Dear Joe - agreed on many levels.

Dear Pema Tej - seeing as this defensive post by Brian was about my comment, I can only assume you refer to me with your "What bothers me is the amount of unfounded hate you receive from those who pride themselves on being spiritual. "

Well, this is factually incorrect in both claims made; I do not hate Brian, and I have no pride in anything "spiritual". These are projections of your own and have no relation to me. You should examine what causes such factual falsehoods to arise in your mind, perhaps?

Look, I get it, a lot of y'all are cultic minded people who needed authority figures, father figures etc. This is a basic level psychology. So y'all bounce around from one stone idol to another, projecting all kinds of ideals and noble qualities that may not really exist "out there" in the stone idol. This is all well and good. Really, I have no interest with those who culticly followed RS, and now culticly follow this blog and Brian. However, there will be some people whose association with RS & Gurinder was not cultic or religious, but an expression of a genuine desire for the mystical and all things related. Their association with these groups will be limited, and they will move on and transcend these silly paradigms. They may be at the point where these current round of criticisms are the turning point for their leaving the RS paradigm.

A few people here mention "shamans". Yes. I just feel it is a shame that the shaman of this blog has never had a single mystical experience or realisation in his entire life. It is a shame that he believes, completely delusionally, that such experiences do not even exist. I think it a shame that he is a rabid, fundamentalist atheist, a reductive materialist and follower of the ridiculous belief of "scientism". I think it even sadder that this shaman will lead you to where he is; the "realisation" existence is futile, life is meaningless, consciousness is an accident, and nihilism is the true philisophy.

Beyond all the cultic group games played here, defending this religion or that philosophy, I am merely raising awareness of that fact that your shaman is a master of misery and nihilism, futility and meaningless.

These are factual claims and are evidenced throughout the history of this blog.

Brian now, transparently disingenuously writes things like "I've become a sort of scientific Zen guy now. ", " I'm attracted to Zen, and also Taoism", " Too many RSSB devotees seem to believe that it is impossible to mix spiritual faith with an embrace of worldly facts." etc etc

I mean, come on, apart from Brian, is anyone else really buying all this evidential nonsense and deception?

I've actually read and understood great deals of Buddhist, Zen and Daoist philosophy. I've also experienced many of the "mystical states" that are engendered through these practices.

Brian's mindless, out-dated scientism, fundamentalist atheism, reductive materialism and futile nihilism, cynism of "mystical experiences" etc, his REAL deep down & experienced reality (all these nonsense claims and throwing labels around about like "zen", "taoism" etc is utterly meaningless and disconnected from any coherent reality) is in NO way related to Zen or Daoism. Brian's nihilistic, miserablely futile, limited view of reality is the very anti-thesis of the deeper reality pointed to by these traditions. Brian, with his exceptionally limited exposure to (and capacity to understand, imo) textual sources, exposed instead to such dubious and modern sources as Stephen Bachelor for eg., is reflects a deeply vacuous, superficial, erroneous, misguided approach and understanding of such subjects.

Nihilism, futility, never having experienced a single mystical experience in your entire life etc is not zen, realisation of "no-self", daoism etc. Some people will claim anything, use any label they think will get them attention, make them look wise etc; "zen", "daoism", "spiritual independence"; but, let's not forget, without personal experience of the reality these systems or words are merely pointing too, it's vacuous noise signifying nothing. Any imbecile can parrot words and concepts. If people are impressed by that, they deserve what they get. Fake shamans. Facades.

[manjit]

Pema writes: "I don't see any contradiction between practicing meditation the sant mat way, and enjoying reading your blogs"

Who says there is a contradiction? Yes, you can do both - but that doesn't detract from simple facts, does it?:

1) Brian doesn't meditate the "sant mat" way.
2) Brian is a nihilist who thinks existence is futile and all mysticism and their implied experiential reality to be delusions and hallucinations
3) Brian never had a single mystical experience using "sant mat" meditation or via any other means, his entire life; his comments about mystical experiences are based on ignorance, factually speaking.
4) Brian's grasp of science, philosophy, RS, Gurinder etc is incredibly circumspect and lacking. His desperate desire to be published and recognised doesn't diminish this fact, although people are readily fooled and duped by appearances, titles, position, books etc.

Beyond these facts, you are of course free to project upon Brian whatever experiences, knowledge, motivations, understanding etc as you wish. This is the cultic merry-go-round of putting fake stone idols on a pedestal and then inevitably being disappointed.

My only real advice, my only real passion and motivation for posting here? Watch you don't follow him too deeply into the pit of reductive materialism, a mindless and purposeless universe, existence is futille, mystical experiences are a lie etc etc.

Not only is this pure delusion, a mental creation of misery, it is also purely dangerous, imo. Cover this evident truth up by dropping labels like "zen" or "daoism" all you like, but the reality of your existential futility & nihilism shines through, for example during moments like worrying about what picture of you is used when you criticise the belief, the life-support of many people on an Indian news channel, or when you gleefuly report on how many visitors you get to your blog, seemingly unaware or unconcerned with the gravitas of what is being said, instead focussing on the only important thing; how much attention you are getting. Suffering and misery writ large. But to each their own.

I know people will not like what I write above, and will receive genuine hate from the cult of Brianers (like Jesse's delightful comment to me, ignored by all those here who project that I hate Brian for simply pointing out facts and alternative perspectives: "I don't love Manjit. I'd go to his funeral to laugh at his family". Of course, Brian would call this "humour" and "wit", whilst all RSSB critics are hateful, or whatever other self-serving, double-standard and delusional narrative he trys to fool himself with!).

Hi Tim - Hope you're well! Agreed. It's a shame there isn't a more impartial, objective "forum" where these things could be discussed and unpacked from outside the particularly one-sided and critical narrative there is on this forum. The RSS forum used to be that place - and it was, imo, far more interesting than this one-track blog for years due to the diversity of voices, but changes to the yahoo forums have basically killed that place, yahoo groups are so yesterday!

But my personal interest in RS/SB is limited. I've said everything I've had to say about that over the years at RSS and here (and, you will notice, there is not a single coherent criticism of RS & Gurinder I haven't repeated endlessly years before!I

think there is one important thing here that is being lost, over and over again (and this is why Spence's comments are surprising to me); our own, personal, lived life, desires, passions, path, experiences etc. Why did we get into "spirituality" in the first place, what have we experienced ourselves, what do we believe is possible, how far are we willing to go etc Forgetting all this, it has become a game of cults, of intellectual groups and affiliations. "Babaji is great, Brian will suffer karma, yaay!" or "Brian is great, Babaji is a fraud, yaaaay" etc. Vacuous nonsense, completely irrelevant; but that is the level of debate on this forum, flowing from our illustrious blog leader and guru Brian, where sophistication, nuance, complexity, deep insight etc is not required for appealing to the lowest common denominator. Has anybody actually got any personal experience beyond the worldly, religious, conceptual, intellectual? I am not interested in & with those whose only association with RS and mysticism is in these worldly dimensions, like Brian. He is communicating with other fellow cultists & ex-cultists, people who were following a religion, and now want to follow a more sceptical, atheist religion with another fake role-model at the top, bouncing around from one fake father figure to another, ceaseless projecting (a competent therapist, guru or teacher will teach the student they are projecting. An egotist lacking skill & understanding will claim the projection/praise...)

Anyway, I really got to go now - I'm at work :)

Peace to you all, seriously (no hate :). May you all find peace, happiness, joy, compassion, awe, astonishment etc May the illusion of futility and atheistic nihilism pass promptly for those who find themselves such miserable & dire straights - there is far more to reality than such mundanity!

Cheers, Manjit

[manjit]

3 parts?!:

Pema writes: "I don't see any contradiction between practicing meditation the sant mat way, and enjoying reading your blogs"

Who says there is a contradiction? Yes, you can do both - but that doesn't detract from simple facts, does it?:

1) Brian doesn't meditate the "sant mat" way.
2) Brian is a nihilist who thinks existence is futile and all mysticism and their implied experiential reality to be delusions and hallucinations
3) Brian never had a single mystical experience using "sant mat" meditation or via any other means, his entire life; his comments about mystical experiences are based on ignorance, factually speaking.
4) Brian's grasp of science, philosophy, RS, Gurinder etc is incredibly circumspect and lacking. His desperate desire to be published and recognised doesn't diminish this fact, although people are readily fooled and duped by appearances, titles, position, books etc.

Beyond these facts, you are of course free to project upon Brian whatever experiences, knowledge, motivations, understanding etc as you wish. This is the cultic merry-go-round of putting fake stone idols on a pedestal and then inevitably being disappointed.

My only real advice, my only real passion and motivation for posting here? Watch you don't follow him too deeply into the pit of reductive materialism, a mindless and purposeless universe, existence is futille, mystical experiences are a lie etc etc.

Not only is this pure delusion, a mental creation of misery, it is also purely dangerous, imo. Cover this evident truth up by dropping labels like "zen" or "daoism" all you like, but the reality of your existential futility & nihilism shines through, for example during moments like worrying about what picture of you is used when you criticise the belief, the life-support of many people on an Indian news channel, or when you gleefuly report on how many visitors you get to your blog, seemingly unaware or unconcerned with the gravitas of what is being said, instead focussing on the only important thing; how much attention you are getting. Suffering and misery writ large. But to each their own.

I know people will not like what I write above, and will receive genuine hate from the cult of Brianers (like Jesse's delightful comment to me, ignored by all those here who project that I hate Brian for simply pointing out facts and alternative perspectives: "I don't love Manjit. I'd go to his funeral to laugh at his family". Of course, Brian would call this "humour" and "wit", whilst all RSSB critics are hateful, or whatever other self-serving, double-standard and delusional narrative he trys to fool himself with!).

[manjit]

Hi Tim - Hope you're well! Agreed. It's a shame there isn't a more impartial, objective "forum" where these things could be discussed and unpacked from outside the particularly one-sided and critical narrative there is on this forum. The RSS forum used to be that place - and it was, imo, far more interesting than this one-track blog for years due to the diversity of voices, but changes to the yahoo forums have basically killed that place, yahoo groups are so yesterday!

But my personal interest in RS/SB is limited. I've said everything I've had to say about that over the years at RSS and here (and, you will notice, there is not a single coherent criticism of RS & Gurinder I haven't repeated endlessly years before!I

think there is one important thing here that is being lost, over and over again (and this is why Spence's comments are surprising to me); our own, personal, lived life, desires, passions, path, experiences etc. Why did we get into "spirituality" in the first place, what have we experienced ourselves, what do we believe is possible, how far are we willing to go etc Forgetting all this, it has become a game of cults, of intellectual groups and affiliations? "Babaji is great, Brian will suffer karma, yaay!" or "Brian is great, Babaji is a fraud, yaaaay" etc. Vacuous nonsense, completely irrelevant; but that is the level of debate on this forum, flowing from our illustrious blog leader and guru Brian, where sophistication, nuance, complexity, deep insight etc is not required for appealing to the lowest common denominator. Has anybody actually got any personal experience beyond the worldly, religious, conceptual, intellectual? I am not interested in & with those whose only association with RS and mysticism is in these worldly dimensions, like Brian. He is communicating with other fellow cultists & ex-cultists, people who were following a religion, and now want to follow a more sceptical, atheist religion with another fake role-model at the top, bouncing around from one fake father figure to another, ceaseless projecting (a competent therapist, guru or teacher will teach the student they are projecting. An egotist lacking skill & understanding will claim the projection/praise...)

Anyway, I really got to go now - I'm at work :)

Peace to you all, seriously (no hate :). May you all find peace, happiness, joy, compassion, awe, astonishment etc May the illusion of futility and atheistic nihilism pass promptly for those who find themselves such miserable & dire straits - there is far more to reality than such mundanity!

Cheers, Manjit

[manjit]

Tim - my response to you and final message isn't appearing! Hope it does at some point.

All the best and cheers! (I will attempt to at least post the final paragraph):

Peace to you all, seriously (no hate :). May you all find peace, happiness, joy, compassion, awe, astonishment etc May the illusion of futility and atheistic nihilism pass promptly for those who find themselves such miserable & dire straits - there is far more to reality than such mundanity!

Cheers, Manjit

[Ramesh]

the all story is misleading & has no truthat all,this is just to get fame/ popularity nothing else.satsangis should not get disturbed.

[Jesse]

"I'm actually the first person on earth who has read and understood great deals of Buddhist, Zen and Daoist philosophy. Check my credentials. I've also experienced many of the "mystical states" that are engendered through these practices, unlike anyone else . And I'm also the most ethical person who's ever lived, and I also masturbate while looking in the mirror. You're all plebs and beneath me. My many unnecessary words and lack of brevity prove it so. Omg I'm so much better than you all."

Manjit

[Pema Tej]

To: Manjit

I was not referring to you specifically. I was referring to the countless hate comments I have seen on this blog directed towards Brian. But since you mentioned me in your response, I must say that it seems you are obsessed with Brian's blogs, disturbingly so. I simply enjoy his writings like enjoying a cup of coffee or poetry.

[Chris C]

BRIAN WROTE:
“I was right. You were wrong.
And unlike you, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.
But in this case I was right.”

Wow! :-o

[Vijay]

Brian wrote

“I was right. You were wrong.
And unlike you, I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.
But in this case I was right.”

Brian can you please tell me when you admitted to be wrong?

[Brian Hines]

Vijay, two days ago I said I was wrong in this post on my Salem Political Snark blog.

https://hinessight.blogs.com/salempoliticalsnark/2019/06/climate-bill-is-dead-so-are-oregon-democrats-to-me.html

And here's a post from this blog where I admired about being wrong regarding the world's religions having a common denominator.

https://hinessight.blogs.com/church_of_the_churchless/2017/09/all-religions-are-not-alike-radha-soami-satsang-beas-is-wrong-about-shabd.html

I'm usually right in my blog posts, though. That balances the fact that I'm usually wrong when my wife and I have a disagreement about something. Of course, most husbands are. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been wrong about how to load a dishwasher. I just can't ever seem to get it right.

[Vijay]

Brian good to know you were wrong about your claim on RSSB denominator amongst other things(dishwasher).

[Vijay]

So random question. How often are you high on weed these days?

[Brian Hines]

Vijay, where I live, Oregon, there's a large oversupply of marijuana. So obviously I'm not consuming enough.

I enjoy a nice vaporizer full of cannabis (mixture of THC and CBD flower) every night. That's replaced the glass of red wine I used to have, since I consider marijuana to be better for me than alcohol.

Sorry to disappoint you, if you think I should be using more weed. There's only so many hours in a day. But I can certainly try to be high more often, if this is important to you. I like to keep my blog visitors happy.

[Arjuna]

Brian - think you are on drugs buddy 😆