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September 26, 2018

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Hi Jen
You wrote
"He's actually being honest in revealing in so many ways, especially with his joking attitude, that he is not a PLM. He is just a figurehead of a religious community doing the best he can. I don't have a problem with that because after many years as an initiate I now know I have to slowly steadily follow my own spiritual path, taking the middle way, seeking the truth."

There are inner miracles that only a pure focus on the divine bring to us. Because we want to become that and leave aside all this. Our conception of a pure truth that requires nothing, no thought, just love and devotion, this is a unique path to going within, the easiest path by far.

And it works!

But the object of our love, must he be more than human?

A decent human being will do.

And a decent human being acknowledges their short comings, and takes responsibility, not only for their mistakes, but those of their family and friends.

Christ took responsibility for the whole world.

Gurindar can certainly do so for his own actions.

The object of our love need not be perfect to point to that perfect love within.

But they must be decent, and responsible, a role model of how best we can live our own lives.


Hi Spence,

I've just finished watching a youtube by someone who Arjuna mentioned (his book) in this thread - "Becoming Supernatural” by Dr Joe Dispenza".

Thank you Arjuna !!

Had some very good realisations about myself and the different states of consciousness and am going to watch more of his videos.

This is me Spence, this is what I resonate with, I work on myself, not needing a guru or teacher anymore, this is my journey in life.

Maybe you can find the time to watch and see what you think...

Dr Joe Dispenza: Becoming Supernatural - Rewire Your Brain & Change Your Reality (46:14)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz2EOgITyl0


He's actually being honest in revealing in so many ways, especially with his joking attitude, that he is not a PLM. He is just a figurehead of a religious community doing the best he can.


Great Master joked and had a keen sense of humor too
according to Daryai Lal and Ishwar Puri. Ishwar also relates
scandal sheets of the day hinted of hanky panky in the
relationship of G.M and his three closest Bibi's. I recall
a rumor Maharaji was involved inappropriately with a
German admirer on his European tour.

Should we pursue investigations to weigh if any of them
are true? Defrock 'em if the evidence is damning?
Take their books off satsang tables?

Do we parse each and every one of their remarks and
trust our own judgment of their propriety and decorum?
Where does it end if we try RSSB in the press or "blog court"?
Or jettison trust and due process in favor of muckraking?

Do any of the blog pastors or enablers have law degrees?
They like to tout they're only citing "facts" and refusing to
engage in blind adulation. Fair enough. Why wouldn't
impartiality and pursuit of truth extend to GSD's promised
response?

Why wouldn't their patience and trust extend even that
far? Instead there's a steady drumbeat of innuedo and
suspicion. A kangaroo court, eh. If I were GSD, I'd petition
for a change of venue :)


He's actually being honest in revealing in so many ways, especially with his joking attitude, that he is not a PLM. He is just a figurehead of a religious community doing the best he can.


Great Master joked and had a keen sense of humor too
according to Daryai Lal and Ishwar Puri. Ishwar also relates
scandal sheets of the day hinted of hanky panky in the
relationship of G.M and his three closest Bibi's. I recall
a rumor Maharaji was involved inappropriately with a
German admirer on his European tour.

Should we pursue investigations to weigh if any of them
are true? Defrock 'em if the evidence is damning?
Take their books off satsang tables?

Do we parse each and every one of their remarks and
trust our own judgment of their propriety and decorum?
Where does it end if we try RSSB in the press or "blog court"?
Or jettison trust and due process in favor of muckraking?

Do any of the blog pastors or enablers have law degrees?
They like to tout they're only citing "facts" and refusing to
engage in blind adulation. Fair enough. Why wouldn't
impartiality and pursuit of truth extend to GSD's promised
response?

Why wouldn't their patience and trust extend even that
far? Instead there's a steady drumbeat of innuedo and
suspicion. A kangaroo court, eh. If I were GSD, I'd petition
for a change of venue :)

Dungeness:

Yes, I completely understand. Every fucking day in meditation I am pleading to be dead wrong.
Then another article comes out. I want to pretend none of this ever happened.

And Maharaji within, keeps smiling and says, "just go through it..."

He's not letting me ignore it or make excuses anymore.

We don't know all the facts. But this stuff is heavy stuff, and Gurindar is in the middle of it.

And we must acknowledge it might be true.

When I see Gurindar's form inside, smiling and bright as a thousand suns I am completely confused.

But that's the way they want me to be. So, I'm going through it.

I'm actually doing their work but don't understand why or how.

I'm guessing this is how they weed out the folks who must believe they are perfect.

That was never an issue for me. Doing the right thing has always been the issue, and the Masters are textbook examples of that. All the writings are the clearest wisdom I have ever read about leading an honorable life.

So, crap, we just have to go through it.

I'm with you Dungeness.

I know One likes to say I've been trapped by the dark power. But it's Maharaji who is pushing me to see what Brian has brought forth, to acknowledge the factual basis of it.

I'm still a devout Satsangi, and I think Baba Ji not only can take the questions, but from my perspective he's the SOB making me ask them!!

So, naturally, it's even more of a mystery to me.

But fraud is fraud. Someone chose to do this stuff.

One more point, Dungeness: This is all a joke to both Baba Ji and Maharaji. They are laughing with this, and I feel it's a little at my expense. But when I see them I laugh to. It's like actors during lunch break. Someone plays the hero, someone plays the villain, and they are the best of friends off stage. Very, very strange.

@ Spencer - it’s a personal journey for each one of us I am now finally understanding. Brother I know it’s hard and I have no words of wisdom or any evidence otherwise to ease your pain.

Bar to say to let it ride and let’s go through it laughing - yes there will be hard days where we will feel we are indeed in league with the dark prince.

I cannot be angry with Brian or anyone else as he is only doing what he was destined to do all along.

No date but what we make - let’s ride it out and God Bless.

@ Spencer - sorry !!

Correction - no “fate” what we make.

Lovely quote from Terminatir 2. Judgement Day. Oh the irony😀


@ Spencer - it’s a personal journey for each one of us I am now finally understanding. Brother I know it’s hard and I have no words of wisdom or any evidence otherwise to ease your pain.


@Spence - ditto what Arjuna said...

Quote Spence : It's like actors during lunch break. Someone plays the hero, someone plays the villain, and they are the best of friends off stage.


But why take the trouble to enact the play at all, in that case? Since the cessation of the play and absorption into the Ultimate is attractive enough to warrant leaving the world, then it makes no sense to set up this distraction at all, does it?

Whole philosophies are set up around this actor-play analogy. I remember Manjit, in particular, had set out a lovely explanation on this from his personal (and somewhat quirky) perspective. Yet that little niggling inconsistency remains (quite apart, that is, from the complete lack of actual evidence) : What kind of Ultimate Spirit (or whatever) is so wholly incapable of quietude and self-absorption that it must, like some kind of compulsive excitement junkie, set out that whole convoluted creation for its amusement?

@ Jen - hello! So glad you liked the videos from Dr. joe.

He has had the changes verified by independent experts to confirm that we can enter another “place” however no self of “I” must exist as he says. To go here the reality we have now as “I” and everything we know or remember must exist.

But it impacts our physical state here also. What beauty - stay happy and I pray you find happiness I get good vibes when I read your posts and write back to you.

All the very best

Sorry Jen - bad typos - see correction below:

“He has had the changes verified by independent experts to confirm that we can enter another “place” however no self of “I” must exist as he says. To go there - the reality we have now as “I” and everything we know or remember must not exist“

Hi Appreciative:

You wrote:
But why take the trouble to enact the play at all, in that case? Since the cessation of the play and absorption into the Ultimate is attractive enough to warrant leaving the world, then it makes no sense to set up this distraction at all, does it?

.....
"What kind of Ultimate Spirit (or whatever) is so wholly incapable of quietude and self-absorption that it must, like some kind of compulsive excitement junkie, set out that whole convoluted creation for its amusement?"

Yah, that's how it feels.

When I'm there, I'm a nicer, brighter, more aware, chill dude. There, all is cool and copacetic. Here, I don't remember. Pushed and pulled.

When I look at the articles, all I can think is "Baba Ji, WTF??"

Inside everything is cool.

So, it's going to be "ride it out" and my job is to just accept it.


@ Spencer - thank you! You were meant to tell me that. I won’t use any energy here I promise. Thank you again

Arjuna, you say "I won’t use any energy here I promise. Thank you again".

Please keep on commenting here !!

I really am enjoying Dr. Joe videos. Its because they are positive, encouraging and empowering. Just what I need in these very skeptical times. Also the practice of slowly letting go of all I have learnt to allow more awareness and being more conscious in everyday life. Such a lovely practice because I live a very quiet lifestyle and also because I don't like sitting meditation, so just simply coming back to awareness as much as possible can in my daily habits. Its like self observing myself.

I also enjoy reading your comments, definitely its about good vibes, amazing to realise we are each on the other side of the world. Dr Joe talks about how connections are so very important. So true!

Hello Jen- hope you are well.

I will respond in depth later as I am getting ready to go to work.

The way I see it now - with all that is happening in the world - if one lives a life that makes us a better version of ourselves then we have succeeded!

Help comes through all forms everyday and we just have to take that bit of good from all we observe each day.

The people I research have left the mainstream communities and are usually at the top of thinking - they too have had doubts and no doubt agonies.

Mind and intellect - yes are important and critical as we need them to operate in this world. However they may also be the impediment to the way. May scientists and some of them are world class are pondering questions that they weren’t before.

For example, the yogi who was in Alexander the Great’s army’s way when he entered India. Alexander’s General asked him: “you are in our way old man, do you know who that man on the horse is? (Pointing at Alexander) Do you know he has conquered half the known world. What have you conquered old man?” The yogi replied” “I have conquered my mind”. On that note have a good day 😀

Hello, Spence.

I appreciate and empathize with your sentiments.

I see you're wrapped up about this whole GSD thing -- understandably so -- but I wasn't referring to him at all, actually. You spoke of people being actors in this play, that hoary old metaphor for life, and I was wondering -- given that that metaphor is usually based on a literal philosophy of life and beyond basis this -- why the Ultimate (not GIHF, but just G, just God, the thing that everything presumably originated from) should be so incapable of the quietude and the self-absorption that most/many of us are able to arrive at, as to have to seek the excitement in the world without, and so go about creating this whole convoluted system of worlds we see all around us.

I was wondering if RSSB theology provides any answer to this question, that you are aware of.

Hello, Arjuna.

As far as apocryphal stories around Alexander, I love the one where he says, just before he dies, that he's leaving the world empty-handed, and wanted to be buried with his palms open. What better commentary on a life spent compulsively accumulating, more than anyone had ever accumulated in their life?

It doesn't require any extraordinary "realizations", just a clear-headed understanding and acceptance of one's own transience, to lead one to realize how futile, how wholly pointless, is such a great proportion of the things and activities that generally occupy one's days.

Given that, one cannot help but wonder -- not to knock your personal faith in any way, Arjuna, but just to wonder aloud, as well as invite comments about this from RSSB believers like you -- why this understanding eludes the GIHF. (I speak in context of his amazing burst of entrepreneurial initiative, and quite irrespective of the details or the results of such initiative.)

Hi Appreciative
You wrote
"why the Ultimate (not GIHF, but just G, just God, the thing that everything presumably originated from) should be so incapable of the quietude and the self-absorption that most/many of us are able to arrive at, as to have to seek the excitement in the world without, and so go about creating this whole convoluted system of worlds we see all around us.

I was wondering if RSSB theology provides any answer to this question, that you are aware of."

When asked 'why this creation? Why were we sent here? Especially when our origin was so wonderful? Who would want to leave the Father?

Maharaji often said that at this level we can't know. When we go back to Him we can then ask Him. But then when we are at that level we will be so filled with bliss we won't want to ask anything, nor will we need to.

Is conjecture.

So, staying with pure experience I can tell you that there is wonderful blues inside, and it does effect our motivation to do much of anything, with the result being that we take on an attitude of duty in most things. And yet with that attitude, which has as its base a deeper connection within ourselves, we tend to be quite fastidious about meeting those duties. And seeing God everywhere... Or at least the joy within anyone, we want to help, we want to serve and not lead.

Why did it happen?
I see the creator and the creation as one whole. The notion of think first, plan or design first, then build is a very human, linear notion.

Human thought is symbolic and abstract.

So I don't think that consciousness that we experience in meditation functions in the same way. There isn't a why.

Action and thought, or at least awareness, happen as one whole.

Science adds beautiful objectivity to this. So probably they're our a scientific reason. I'm not sure if had anything to do with the kind of reasoning we engage in before deciding to do something.

Me:"By God, you really just jumped in there without thinking!"

God:"So? And? What's the downside? It's all me, dude."

@ AP - hello hope you are well.

You are right in that most of the things which we do are pointless - there is always a yarning in all of us that there must be something else. But that’s a personal journey we must take and only we can answer that question. Some answer through seeking God, others through sex, art, music, sports, holiday, writing and finally intellectual (learning what they can). It’s pointless to a degree!

As to me telling Alexander the greats story - I don’t know if it’s true or not but what is true these days?? The whole world is upside down. People in RSSB are just as lost as Athiests (and I don’t care what they say but respect their views but in my eyes they are lost).

And finally you nor anyone else can shake my faith in my what I believe. You can take everything from me but not my mind - and my mind believes in God! In response to your question as to why GIHF eludes all what is going on (whether we have prof or not) ! I don’t know. I have doubts too. However I will ride all this out and see where it ends up. That’s the best I can do!

No one on here has any answers!
I can only share some things I come across to people who my blog writing may resound with- in some ways !

Bar that we are all struggling and seeking- I’d rather seek God.

Wishing you the best

Dear Sheena,
Just finished your book!
What a very strong woman you are.
I read it with soo much respect for you.
Thank you!!
Maybe I know who you are because I think I met you in Dera.
You say things I also have seen and it confirms my insights.
I got confused more times.
Maybe you was the one who said to me ''Don't think".
Maybe you recognise that..
Anyway it's good you wrote the book!
I am happy you are alright and found God in your own self again.
Much love,
s*

Quote Spence : “Maharaji often said that at this level we can't know.” .


No disrespect to your Guru, Spence, but doesn’t that ‘answer’, taken as it is, sound very like a cop-out? Might it not have been more straightforward for him to simply have said “Sorry, son, I don’t know the answer to that one” to you?

(Although that reminds me, apparently every time they asked the Buddha questions like these, he’d simply not entertain those questions. He’d apparently simply keep quiet, or else speak of something else. And that might appear to be a cop-out, too. Or, who knows, perhaps they were really on to something, the Buddha as well as your Maharaji, and perhaps there are things we cannot understand in this level, that do make sense in some other level, whatever these levels might denote?)


“Why did it happen? --- I see the creator and the creation as one whole.” .


That sounds to me like your personal answer, your personal speculation. Am I right?

This answer sounds likely enough to me. (That is, obviously there’s no evidence for it, but that apart, something like this might actually make sense.)

What if the bacteria (or for that matter the quarks, or even beings living within teeny tiny quark level worlds) living within our bodies were sentient, and set out to discover if there is some larger sentience (us) that encompasses and envelopes their puny existence? Arguably “we” are as much that bacteria (or that quark-world-being) as anything else.

Although science-fiction-ish, this sort of thing makes a kind of sense. Although I have to say, if some Spence (or some Appreciative Reader) within bacteria colony (or that quark universe) somehow came face to face with the mind of the 'larger' Spence (or of Appreciative Reader) -- us -- then they’d probably be in for a huge disappointment, wouldn’t they? They’ll probably find all their own infirmities and failings (as well as minor virtues and minor successes) reflected within the likes of us. This “Virat” (that is, ginormous) self they encounter (that’s from the Bhagvad Gita, by the way, not Olaf Stapledon!) would hardly qualify for the descriptor “God”, even if that descriptor were to be literally true.

Is that the sort of thing you meant, Spence?

Quote Arjuna : “you nor anyone else can shake my faith in my what I believe.” .


Dear Arjuna,

No no, I am not trying to ‘de-convert’ you, or anything like that! Your faith is your business, and as long as you don’t go pushing that faith in my face, as long as you don’t go proselytizing aggressively -- which you don’t -- I am very happy for you to believe whatever seems reasonable to you.

In any case, Arjuna, I can’t say I have arrived at any firm answers myself. Yes, there are some things and some POVs that make more sense to me now than other things and other points of view, sure -- the whole soft-atheism routine -- but I am nowhere close to any kind of certainty about these things. I tend to view skepticism as a process that, like science, offers tentative answers, but never claims to offer written-in-stone edicts with which to proselytize to the world.

All I’m doing is chatting, simply exchanging thoughts and ideas, that’s all. That’s what we’re all here for, isn’t it?


Quote : “You are right in that most of the things which we do are pointless - there is always a yarning in all of us that there must be something else.” .


Actually that isn’t quite what I’d meant. There doesn’t necessarily have to be “something else” at all, does it (although of course, it well may)? That we yearn for something is indicative of nothing more than our yearning itself, nothing else.

Might there be something more than this limited transient life? Sure, that answer we can seek : but irrespective, this much at least many of us can come to appreciate : A few years more, and I will be no more. This understanding of the transience of our personal selves, that is what I’d meant.

And, given this understanding, Alexander’s compulsive empire-building, or GSD’s amazingly energetic entrepreneurial initiatives, make no sense to me. True, that is the way of the (human) world, that is how we as a species progress : and while one can understand an Alexander harboring this compulsion, it is difficult to wrap one’s head around a GSD harboring that same compulsion (given that far humbler folks like me seem to be able to see so clearly the futility of this sort of thing). It is easy enough to accept that one way be wiser than an Alexander ; but it is disconcerting to find that one appears to be wiser than GIHF!

I was wondering if RSSB believers like you might have thoughts around this.

(And sure, ‘I don’t know, this troubles me, but still I believe, and believe that one day it might make sense’ -- which is what you seem to be saying -- that's a valid enough POV, why not? If you care to add anything to that, then I am all ears.)


My good wishes to you too, Arjuna.

@ AP hello -hope you are well.

I will respond to you over the weekend. When I have time.

However I would never dream of pushing my faith in your face or anyone else’s. My faith is my hell and I am not exactly a RSSB follower or would I debate myself to become an atheist - on that note it’s getting late so chat soon.

All the best

Quote Arjuna : "I would never dream of pushing my faith in your face or anyone else’s."


I know. I've read enough of your comments here to recognize you as a 'seeker' (in the literal sense : that is, someone who is trying to understand, to find out) as opposed to a proselytizer.


Incidentally, me, I've never been able to understand (or at least, to empathize with) the proselytizer's psychology. Finding out, trying to find out, for oneself, that I can understand. Should someone ask for guidance, then guiding them to the best of one's (limited) ability, that I can understand too. But to want to persuade someone else, to want to 'convert' someone else to one's way of thinking, that psychology I myself am unable to wrap my head around.


Quote Arjuna : "My faith is my hell and I am not exactly a RSSB follower "


Heh, yes, I've noticed that. Your comments tend to pedulum-swing, they tend to yo-yo from outright rejection (of RSSB) to fervent embrace (of RSSB), and back again.

And that's okay with me. (I mean, why wouldn't it be?) I'm not criticizing, merely observing (with some amusement).

@ AP - hello. I don’t swing to and fro RSSB ! I am seeking something which I know lies within me and me alone.

I’m the original outlier as I stopped going to RSSB meetings long before Brian did - as something did not add up. And guess what I did not even have contact with the master - ie one to one to then say “nah this ain’t real”. However I am willing to give anyone the benefit of doubt.

So let’s ride this out - what day you ? Ie the financial issues . Let’s be brave and see where this goes. I will share something with my mind says this is all wrong but what if all this happening (financial fraud) is merely adjusting the pendulum??? Things we can’t see - are being adjusted - my guy me that! And this is not a declaration of faith by the way.

😀

Brian Hines has mistaken, there is no Beauty Salon at the RSSB Dera.

The following link is of Picture Album of RSSB, it mentions all the services available in RSSB, there is a barber but no Beauty Salon.

http://www.rssb.org/pdf-dl/Equilibrium%20of%20Love%20-%20English.pdf

The pages 186-221 show the facilities available. Page 209 mentions which shops are there.

Memoirs of a Seeker says that the Dera has a Beauty Salon.

There are many other Deras, atleast one I know "Dera Sacha Sauda" has school, hospital and even a Beauty Salon.

Brian Hines only claims but gives no proof. I don't think he is lying, just he has believed fake people.

In my above comment, I mentioned that "Memoirs of a Seeker" mention a Beauty Salon. It can be seen written in the screenshots which have been posted by Brian Hines.

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