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September 12, 2018

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This is getting boring....already a dead topic. Brian stick to writing about boring politics in Oregon go save some tree's. You keep posting the same links. What turned me off was your use of so called "email messages" that you used as facts to present articles for that didnt stick.....time to move on. You wont sway anyone.

Thanks Brian,

I wouldn't have known anything about this if it wasn't for following your blog. Good to keep updated even if it is bad news for RSSB. Everything is still unfolding.

"What turned me off was your use of so called "email messages" that you used as facts"

I think in all the cases where he used someone's comments or emails, he made it pretty clear that it was something he'd heard from someone else and he happened to believe or consider the comment as probably true. He didn't call those things facts as far as I recall. Small thing, but an important distinction for someone who wants to nitpick those kinds of details, PJ2000.

Also, if you've been reading the comments, people have already admitted to their opinions being swayed to various degrees by this site. So you're wrong about that.

Maybe next week Gurinder is going to perform some sort of miracle and prove once and for all that he's the lord of the universe. If that happens, I'll have very little choice but to admit to being wrong, and I'm sure Brian and everyone else would too. But at this time, it's more likely that Gurinder is just a dude who inherited a family religion.

So until we get that miracle, I assume most of us are gonna keep on rambling about these things as new information is presented.

Brian, my parents are followers of Gurinder Singh Dhillon; they see him as God although Gurinder Singh says: "I am not God." I too use to be very devoted; I would go to sewa and satsang every week since I was a child up to, mabey, 25 yrs old, when I stopped because of politics in sewa.

I like the teachings. I still believe that if God is within us, then surely the path to Him is also within. The ten Guru's have emphasized on meditation and so have the older religions such as Hinduism and Buddhism. All these religions I have mentioned have pointed that having a living Master is crucial because the Guru can show us the way back to the Father.

This video are his private affairs and don't have to do anything with the teachings. So why should it be a worry?

There is some things I don't like in the organization is, and I'm not being racist, but in Dera Beas why are foreigners that are not born Indian, nor have an Indian background, have a separate hostel?

I do like the idea of being vegetarian and not eating meat. Taking a life is a sin. If we can't give life, we cannot take a life, as Maharaj Charan Singh said. And Hinduism had said this, the 10 Gurus have said the same. And we are taking on huge karmas by eating meat, and karma really really scares me.


"in Dera Beas why are foreigners that are not born Indian, nor have an Indian background, have a separate hostel?"

Because if we're in the common areas we'll be harassed non-stop and asked by 1000 people if we can get them a VISA to America/Canada. We won't even be able to listen to the satsangs half the time because so many people will be talking to us about useless things. Things even more useless than the satsang itself. I say this as a foreigner who has a lot of experience in India and has met literally hundreds of people who I didn't know who wanted me to obtain a USA VISA for them.

The further you go back in Hindu religion and culture, the less vegetarian it seems to be. In Himachal and Bengal they still sacrifice goats all the time(which is interesting to watch even as a vegetarian), as do Nepalis who are more Vedic in practice than many other Hindus. Sikhs sacrifice goats at Hazur Sahib in Maharashtra, Nihang Sikhs call goat meat from the jhatka "mahaprasad" and a number of the Sikh Gurus hunted and killed animals. So the idea that it's a "sin" to eat meat in these religions isn't as clear cut as people claim.

As far as religions requiring one to have a guru to get back to the father, I don't even know where to begin, but I'll just say that the concept of going back to a father doesn't even play a role at all in any form of Buddhism I'm aware of.

You might have to ask a guy who posts here named Manjit about that one though. He's the only person who has ever read anything about Buddhism and the only one to ever have a mystical experience. Probably a 3rd generation Punjabi Londoner. Confused bloke yeah.

Hi everyone
It seems that now mainstream media is also bold enough to do stories on this whole saga. Business today is a reputed media group and they do their research thoroughly. After watching this, the first thought that comes to mind is that Maharaj charan singhji used to tell in his satsangs that even if a grain of another field comes and get added to your own heap of grains, you will have to pay for it. How come is it possible that the present guru doesn't remember this when he gets 4700 crores from the Singh brothers routed to his own companies? We are just don't calling a spade as spade. Either he was taking advantage of the belief of Singh brothers, who considered him as family elder, GIHF, mentor or whatever knowingly. OR He was just getting his Benami investment in Ranbaxy back.
In both cases, his conduct was wrong.

We get too emotionally attached to our gurus, idols, favorite politicians, players or actors. We don't want to see their shortcomings. I am also shocked by all this, but a fact is a fact.

Why do he needs that much money when he tells everyone that we should not run after Maya?

Are his children and close circle people running simple and same life style as he asks his sangat to follow?

If Singh brothers are tight lipped about him, Do they fear him?

The case of younger brother against the elder one is only a feeble attempt to save his and GIHF image. Everyone knew what was going on, but no one dared to stop or question him, because GOD can do no wrong.

Let the investigation be done quickly and more skeletons come out of the closet.

Nimmi The mother of the brothers will not be happy at all.
Her father was maharaji she had a very dear relationship with him.
Maharaji was imho wa sa very different guru..I think.
It is breath taking what a total disaster this is for them.

How could Gurinder do such things and how could the brothers and everyone trust this all.

Amandeep I was also very scared of the karma and chaurasi.
I am gonna loose that fear because it was fear indoctrinated.
Let go of it do your things out of Love not fear.
Being veg.is good and meditation is good,there are more sort of technique's
You can maybe find what feels good for you..I do sometimes vipassana and sometimes just stillness.

This blog is good to see hear and make your very own conclusions and decisions.
Also to digest and ''talk'' about your discoveries.
I was initiated for over 50 years.
It cost time to let go.
This night a had a dream I was in satsang..;0) really!!

Shivinder Singh withdraws case against his brother Malvinder Singh.

https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/2018/09/13/shivinder-singh-withdraws-case-against-malvinder-singh

Sigh.. that seems very good to me..<3
Wish so much strenght for all of them.

But things.., also difficulties has to happen to wake up about what is really important.

It is also humbling..
Sometimes good..

dear brian
.A practiser of Surat Shabad Yogamight not see flashes of light and might not hear the sounds of Shabad clearly ,but a practiser does have first hand experience after few sessions of meditatiun that the centre of consciousness is at the third eye centre,this consciouness is spread in this body and coillects towards third eye during meditation,there is also a littlle bit sound emerging from third centre,ans they do realise that this is the true path towards self realisation and God realisation.Some people do deviate from path due to some addictions or entanglement in materialusm or due to possession of riches.I can'r understand how can one be a speaker without first hand experience for so many years and after sincere meditation.This is impossible ,Brian. You are a genius and honest person and could not tell lie for so many years. it is unbelievable And unimaginable.The very truth is that you spoke the very truth to the public during your speakership.If you did not meet your expectations in meditation,you had the full right to leave the speakershio ,but you are not true and have no right to criticise the path ethically.
warm regards

Santmat is all about doing meditation and living a good moral life.Doing big business by taking loans is no wrong if you have guts and team to run the business provided one devotes time to meditation . Saintsalways have their attention towards God while doing their business chores because they are always connected to the divine power and that is why they are known as GIHF. A saint may be a king,a big or a small businessman, a Govt. servant or pensioner a farmer or an ordinary cobbler,a weaver ,etc.They are the owners of their MAUJ. They have merged their soul in the ocean of word and those who like their path come to their shelter. Majority of the people of the world have no knowledge if saints exist in the world or not. Saints may show some pity towards them but they do not have problem because whole world is running with God''s MAUJ as you are running this blog with your MAUJ.

Where's Jesse ?

Hi Dharam

What scares me, truly, in your comments, is your effort to twist wrong into right because the personality involved is a Guru.

If you seek stop to review your own comments you will see the flaw in what you write.

A Saint may earn their living through any honest means in any profession that helps and does not harm.

In doing so they are bound by the laws and ethics of the job.

An investor who was found guilty of using his insider status to push through the sale and destruction of a non-profit charitable hospital to clear the way for his own for-profit business would be in jail.

So, you play the game you pay the house.

Spence
it is the domain of the society's executive body and trustee to sell or buy the land/hospital. they can change their decision anytime. their is nothing illegal.RSSB is a spirtual society and not a cheritable society.Nothing wrong has been proved against master.you are viewing the matter as per your your interpretation but masters come to spread spirtuality .they may do charity or not .It is not easy to run speciality hospital.May be RSSB needed funds fot more important areas of their mission .You and I are nobody to guide them,we are free to adopt their path or not.

Dharam
You see once again you are trying to add clarity but are justifying.

You cannot separate the Master from financials decisions of RSSB. Everything is in his name. The captain of the ship carries the full responsibility.

Ethically, RSSB can sell anything. But they can't sell it to an entity with vested interest or connection to RSSB. That's unethical.

Selling the hospital to Gurindar is a breach of ethics.

There were other issues also discussed earlier.

There were any number of ways to keep the hospital open.

You are wrong saying RSSB had no charitable duty. Maharaji set forth several charters for charitable work. Gurindar 's duty included honoring them, not bulldozing them.


"They took out all the trees and put' em in a tree museum.
Now they charge folks a buck fifty
Just to see 'em
Sometimes you don't know what you've got till its gone..
They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Three hospitals are already being run by the Society. It is them to see whether they want to open more hospitals or not. Master also decided to close eye camps. Masters of RSSB also preached previously before establishment of hospital or eye camp.
Our moto should be to see if the path preched by them is fine .If we feel it is fine,we must not miss it and if we feel it is not fine,we may ignore it.

Dharam you fill to see the breach in ethics of choosing to sell the charitable hospital TO GRUNDARS PRIVATE For-Profit company.

That's a common beach of ethics. And against the law IN India, since Gurindar is a person with interest in RSSB.

You continue to ignore the most critical ethics violation.

How can meditation help you? More.

dharma, you left out another possibility: If we feel it is not fine, we can speak out against it, and urge others to do the same.

Staying silent in the face of wrongdoing is an act of cowardice. It is what authoritarians want us to do, whether this be in the name of religion, politics, or anything else.

Truth should never be silenced. That's why I have my blogs, why I'm a writer, and why I'm a political activist.

One thing ,you may please note that Sangat donates money to the master.It may look unethical to general public but there is nothing wrong if the price has been paid .
In Santmat,Master is the boss. Satsangis have no problem.If the others have problem,let them have.Bkz. they are only judging the master and have not accepted him as their master.Once,a person accepts One a master,he stops judging him.Satsangis consider themselves as the children of the master and they call him Baba Ji .Baba Ji means father in punjabi language.

And to support what Brian is saying, those who love truth are more obliged to defend her.

What's creepy is watching people who claim to love truth make excuses and ignore these facts reported by multiple sources. These are grown adults!

What does this say about their beliefs or practice if it corrpts their ability to see the plain truth?

Everyone who is not associated with the individuals and who reads the articles gets that creepy corrupt feeling that this stuff is dark and wrong.

That would be their own natural intuitive sense of right and wrong.

Any cult of personality that corrupts this natural ability, rather than help it, honor it, develop it is wrong. Children shouldn't be exposed to it. Nor adults.

Brian
What you preached for 15 years,now you are telling that it was wrong.So public or Sangat is not going to believe you.Tomorrow any time,you may say," I am mistaken.that was the right path."
You are a person of no self confidence.
You do not believe in your own path when you were a young and smart fellow.Anyway,my good wishes to you.

dharam, you haven't learned that there is always more truth to be found. I hope you become wiser one day. Truth isn't something static. Almost always both scientists, and us ordinary people, continually learn more, changing our views, finding out more truths about both ourselves and the world.

That's what happened with me and RSSB/Sant Mat.

I learned that there are higher and greater truths than those I followed for 35 years. Now I'm happier and more fulfilled as a result of discarding those lower and lesser truths. But everybody is different. So that's one reason for the slogan I used when I started this blog, and still use: "Preaching the gospel of spiritual independence."

Wow.
Dharam you wrote
"What you preached for 15 years,now you are telling that it was wrong.So public or Sangat is not going to believe you.Tomorrow any time,you may say," I am mistaken.that was the right path."

What a strange logic!
If I stick to the same superstitions for my entire life this makes it true? No one should believe it, and rightly so.

What you claim is that it is weak to grow and learn.

But what you claim as a strength is corruption, which is incapable of conceding error.

You should know full well that the tree that is laden with fruit bends low, to the ground.

And the tree that is dead, barren of fruit, stands firm, tall, erect... Until the next breeze finally destroys it.

As a Satsangi I can confirm the inner path and all the regions. This is the gift Maharaji gave me. And it is also by His own gift that I proclaim here and now, again, on this issue Brian is right. Brian carries the truth on this one. Misbehavior involving Baba Ji has taken place repeatedly, over several years.

Splence
It may look unethical to you and general public.But Sangat donates to
master.
Sangat consider themselves as children of master and they address him as Baba Ji. Baba Ji means father in punjabi language. They love their father,miss him,cry for him,delight with his glimpse.They call him their sweetheart ,handsome messenger of God who will take them to God.
You and public think whatever.

Dear Brian

Thanks for your blog and exposing the truths!!
It is really sad to learn all the truths of recent events. I had a feeling somethiing is corrupt but it still came as a shock when my intuition was confirmed with facts. I am not part of Sant mat myself but do know people that I love that is. They don’t know yet and I just don’t have the heart to break this news. I can just imagine that if your whole belief system was based on the idea of a perfect living master and to found out he is not so perfect after all, will pull the rug underneath you. Especially this path’s standards are so high in terms of diet and moral life. How do you break such news to somebody you love while you know their world will be shattered? How have other Satsangis took the news? Is it best to just keep quiet and wait till truth be revealed?
Ruth

Brian
Once great master visited a town in India ,stayed there at night and told his desire to hold satsang the next day. His host asked him whether they could announce the orogramme in the town.He said," No need.My critics will do it"
Somehow ,some people who did not believe a living master came to know that' Radha Soami Master is staying in town and will hold satsang tomorow.'They formed a team at night and decided to anounce in streets to anounce that RadhaSoami Master is there in town and nobody should go to his satsang because his teachings are against sikhism.As a result,people thought that they should once listen what he teaches. Next day,there was a huge gathering at Satsang and peiple prayed for initiation.Master had to extend his stay for bestowing initiation.
Best Wishes again.do not mind of my some harsh comments,please.I said all that out ofvlove and regard for you.please forgive me for any harsh comments.
warm regards

dharam, you're a good example of why I can't stand the hypocrisy of religious believers. You insult me, then you claim that your "harsh comments" were out of "love and regard for me." Wow, you are unable to speak the truth.

I'd prefer that you simply say, "Brian, I don't like what you're saying about my guru and RSSB, and I think you're wrong about them." Then you could give me reasons why you think you're right and I'm wrong, and we could have a discussion.

Instead you tell me a fable about a guru, and then claim that you're really a loving, caring person, even though you don't act that way.

Dharam wrote:

"Saints always have their attention towards God while doing their business chores because they are always connected to the divine power and that is why they are known as GIHF... They have merged their soul in the ocean of word"

--How do you know that? Don't tell me. Tell yourself how you really know that for sure. Do you?

What if your guru can't do that? How would you know that either?

Hi Dharam
You wrote
"Sangat consider themselves as children of master and they address him as Baba Ji. Baba Ji means father in punjabi language. They love their father,miss him,cry for him,delight with his glimpse.They call him their sweetheart ,handsome messenger of God who will take them to God."

If such devotion leads to devotion to the Spirit, then it serves the highest purpose.

However, that is completely separate from whatever Gurindar does with his own time. That is what we are discussing. I believe firmly in Sant Mat, including the fourth vow, to lead a pure moral life, which appears to have been violated by the Master.

But as He forgives us, when we Repent, and change our ways, then most certainly we can forgive each other and him when any of us fall short of the mark.

It is absolutely wrong to claim the Master can't fall. It's tantamount to saying you have no capacity for forgiveness. The Master can fall. And all the adoration in the world doesn't excuse it. That might make it worse. What message does the Sangat deliver to the Master when they don't hold him accountable for living the vows? They can corrupt a Master as readily as they can be corrupted.

But if he repents and changes his ways we should encourage him with that same love you spoke of.

I'm a Satsangi just like you, Dharam. Devotion to meditation will increase your ability to discriminate right action, not dull it.

We are discussing unethical business practices, nepotism, cronyism, money influence and vested interests engaged in, supported and initiated by Gurindar Singh Dillon in his business activities well documented in numerous sources. These have emerged over the last three months, but they detail events that have taken place over the past 12 years.

Now if that devotion you speak of doesn't lead to devotion to spirit, but becomes a cult of personality, where out of love these people have lost the ability to know right from wrong, that is a very bad thing. That isn't actually Sant Mat.

In that case Brian is right to raise a red flag of warning to all seekers.

And to offer this haven of sanity to those waking up and questioning reality.

"Where's Jesse ?"

I was at a little backyard party with the family. Everyone was drinking, eating meat and having a good time. My family is very irreligious overall. Nothing bad happened as we don't have serious issues on that side of the family.

It should be mentioned that everyone of the meat eating drinkers at the party was more ethical than "Baba Ji" who takes money from the sangat to give to his personal businesses.

Dharam's justification of stealing from charity is a stain on religion, India, and pretty much all of humanity. Funny how his name literally means righteousness and his entire worldview is one of unrighteousness for the benefit of a self-proclaimed godman.

" They love their father,miss him,cry for him,delight with his glimpse.They call him their sweetheart ,handsome messenger of God who will take them to God."

I found this funny. Maybe just a cultural difference, but to think of a guru, or ones own father, as a handsome sweetheart is weird as hell to me. My family would likely disown me if I said anything like this about a man.

Wow, what a bunch of self righteous, pompous bullies. Four of you against dharam and I checked his comments and did not find so called insults or harsh comments coming from him and plenty harsh and insulting words from you lot. Give the guy a break. He is standing up for his culture, his beliefs and the people he loves and you lot are doing nothing but criticise and judge.

Spence you say: "Everyone who is not associated with the individuals and who reads the articles gets that creepy corrupt feeling that this stuff is dark and wrong." So over dramatic Spence! You are really getting off on it, guess its the 'preacher' in you, so 'holier than thou', where is the so called Christian humility?

Jesse
What will you say if the said land and building was transferred to fortis at a higher price than market price after due process by dera committee .How do you assume that some stealing was done?Is it ethical to blame someone without any proof?
So far as other reports are concerned, if any wrongdoing has been done by singh brothers (which is also not proved and only under investigation),master cannot be blamed just because his family has some business transactions/dealings with them or just because he is their relative or advisor(may be they have done something against their advice) or just bkz he is a shareholder or investor in their companies.
You say you are a satsangi.You arre a stain on satsangi's name bkz you are blaming master or his successior without any proof.

Jesse
If your nephew,son ,brothervor even spouse dors anything wrong,you cannot be blamed.


We are discussing unethical business practices, nepotism, cronyism, money influence and vested interests engaged in, supported and initiated by Gurindar Singh Dillon in his business activities well documented in numerous sources. These have emerged over the last three months, but they detail events that have taken place over the past 12 years.

I'm certainly no apologist for unethical behavior but it still seems
a rush to judgment. However well-founded the charges, none of
them are conclusive of anyone's guilt at this point. No presumption
of innocence is in sight. No mention of GSD's promise to address the
issue. No speculation about the complexities of the case or the
potential (likely) culpability of others either.

No, only GIHF gets pilloried by the blog jury. He committed the
cardinal sin for a GIHF - he was caught up in an actual human
destiny and not the sweet storybook tableau of myth.
Crucifixion is sure to follow.

I applaud the investigation, let the legal discovery proceed,
follow the law. Just set aside the hubris of deciding guilt and
innocence without it.

"What will you say if the said land and building was transferred to fortis at a higher price than market price after due process by dera committee ."

I would say that such blatant conflicts of interest should be illegal.

I can't remember if fortis is publicly traded either. If so it would mean the deal was not in the interests of the shareholders. Either way, it's scummy stuff.

"it still seems
a rush to judgment. However well-founded the charges, none of
them are conclusive of anyone's guilt at this point"

I would disagree. The guru is guilty of breaking the tenets of his own religion.
Even if he broke no laws, his admitted level of involvement in so many businesses makes him illegitimate as a spiritual guide. At least to me.

Hi Dungeness
There is a range of opinion presented here. But the facts are verified.

The facts are that Gurindar, through RSSB, sold land to himself, to his own private for - profit holding company. He moved a charitable asset under his Management into his own for-profit organization, RHC, run by one of his sons. That's a breech of conflict of interest. Legally, RSSB can sell the land and the hospital. But not to any entity that has management interest in RSSB, the non-profit entity.

So, that actually is an ethical violation which both the article above and the link to the government legal record confirms.

Secondly, as the Luthra and Luthra audit ad well as the expose link in Brian's post above,provides validated evidence that the Singh Brothers, working at the company Baba Ji helped to found and fund, gave hundreds of millions of dollars in loans that had no collateral backing to several shell companies where Baba Ji's wife was the director. Those loans had no collateral and have not been repaid.

Luthra and Luthra verified that the brothers also took out new loans without collateral, or on the collateral of one of Fortis' entities, and used this money to cover the loan payments on the unpaid Dhillon loans. Basically these weren't loans to the Dhillon companies. They were siphoned funds, laundered funds. That's embezzlement and fraud.

And they used this loan process to cover Fortis purchases, which may have included the sale of the charitable hospital. This last point is conjecture.

The rest is documented fact.

But it gets a little worse. When this was discovered the Singh Brothers put up as collateral their holdings at Religare, also run by friends and relatives of the Dhillon family. The further audit conducted by Fortis' board determined that they were using as collateral the same base of uncollateralized companies they had siphoned the loans to.

The loans, without collateral, were made in direct violation of company policy, as were the loans made to make the original loan payments to Baba Ji's wife 's companies.

There could be any number of reasons why these people chose to embezzle $400 million dollars in this way.

The Fortis board, after due consideration, asked the brothers to resign, which they did. By this time Fortis' financial performance was faltering and the company is in the process of being sold.

The board also feared the Singh Brothers would further burden the company in this way to pay off their penalty by the US Food and Drug Administration for fraud, and the judgment against them by Daiichi. Both of these were connected to the Singh Brothers sale of their family pharma business, Ranbaxy, to fuel the growth of Religare, the investment firm with leaders who included Gurindar and Dhillon family members.

Jesse
OK,do no accept him your spirtual guide. It is entirely upto an individual to accept him or not to accept him as his spirtual guide.If you believe in Maharaj ji,you may carry on your meditation with his dhyan . ,your real .master is the one who has bestowed initiation to you.
Successor is omly for help,one may or may not need it.
warm regards

Jen, I don't think any one here is beating up anyone.

I'm a Satsangi, Jen, who also has an opinion based on evidence. And I've tried to stick to that.

You may refer to that evidence please and offer your own opinion of that if you are serious about avoiding personal attacks.

If I have offered an opinion to Dharam, it is not to critisize his beliefs in the teachings (which I believe in) or his love of his Guru, which is good insofar as it leads to meditation. As I stated.

My criticism and concern is the effort to try to conjecture reasons why ethics and laws were broken to justify doing so. I see that as a violation of the fourth vow.

The justifications are scary. That's my personal reaction. And so is the efforts to say "well let's see what the courts say...."

The courts have already rendered two judgments, the ethical breach in the land sale is a matter of record, and the audits conducted at Fortis RE loans made in part to Dhillon family shell businesses have been completed and reported.

So refraining from making a personal decision about right and wrong is, to me, an abdication of personal duty. That's a corrupting influence.

Again, a violation of the fourth vow we have all taken.

Jen
Let me point out what I mean by right and wrong.
Because I now see a distinction I did not before.
It is not appropriate to say Gurindar is guilty or innocent of a crime. That is a duty for the courts to decide.
I would not also suggest anyone love Gurindar any less, because their love is based on their personal relationship to him. And the teachings I support also, and love for the Guru is the foundation for meditation. That's private. No one knows what is in that, and it should be honored.

Siphoning money into one's own family in loans made illegally, selling the charitable hospital to oneself, these are wrong.

We may not understand the reasons for these actions. But they are unethical. Siphoning funds is embezzlement.

Maybe they didn't actually happen, though several professional auditors, the board at Fortis, court documents and investigative journalism are all independent sources that have publicly confirmed they have happened.

But if they did happen, it's wrong.
And I don't think any true Saint fears honest accountability for their actions. I don't think they want anyone to believe they are beyond questioning.

They ask us to take a hard look at ourselves. They ask us to question ourselves as part of becoming better human beings. I think they are the model of that.

They ask us to take responsibility for our actions, and live an honest life.

They are the model for that, and should have no problem explaining what they have done, if only to help us all understand our personal duty to know right from wrong and help each other, without needing to be told "this is right. This is wrong. Help each other do right."

I don't wait passively for someone to tell me how to think, to say "this is right and this is wrong."

I think progress on the path would strengthen, not weaken, our ability to do so.

So when I write that these things are wrong and I don't need to wait, I'm referring to the actions. They are wrong. If they happened, the guilty parties are guilty. But whether they happened or not, they are wrong actions, ethical violations and embezzlement.

I may need a court to confirm they have happened. Most certainly.

But I do not need a court to tell me they are wrong.

And I'm concerned about those who seem to be saying they do.

"Is embezzlement wrong? I'll wait to hear what the court says. "

Sorry, embezzlement is wrong.

This is what I mean.


I would disagree. The guru is guilty of breaking the tenets of his own religion.
Even if he broke no laws, his admitted level of involvement in so many businesses makes him illegitimate as a spiritual guide. At least to me.

His admitted level of involvement?

What do we know about his real level of involvement? Could he
not possibly have accepted the recommendations of his advisors?
Signed documents with their assurances, delegated the actual
operational details to subordinates?

There are a few ceremonial duties as head of RSSB, some token
demands on his time elsewhere after all. Or are we to second-
guess his expenditures of time? Many of the blog "pastors"
have already concluded he was a lazy, flawed Guru anyway.
Likely Maharaji made a bad mistake appointing him, right?

Or is there an expectation that as GIHF, he should have acted
both roles effortlessly with no lapses. Maybe he shoulda used
his super, x-ray vision to forsee all the entanglements, the
complexities, snafus, potential double dealing? Then as any
decent superhero he coulda saved family, friends, RSSB from
unfavorable press.

Destinies are interwoven. Should he have then used his
prescience to stage manage the destinies -wife's, advisers,
nephews, others in his orbit- to preserve RSSB's pristine
reputation?

The ethical lapses are clear. Why not listen to what GSD says
though? He's promised a statement. Give him a bit of airtime
before he's defrocked, led away on a "perp walk" by the
righteous.

Hi Dungeness
I really like the balance in your statement.
We can wait.
But I have another question / questions...

Would you love Baba Ji any less if his statement included,

"I thought I was pretty good with finances, but clearly I made a mistake there. I had no idea that by promoting my cousins as leaders at my new company, Fortis, that they would embezzle hundreds of millions of dollars to my wife's various companies. She and I have had some very quiet meals at the dinner table lately.

" And I just no idea my cousins had engaged in fraud at Ranbaxy when I promoted them at Fortis and Religare. The whole lawsuit thing I simply told myself, ' That's just big pharma politics.' That was a train wreck I didn't see coming. I read about it just like everyone else and I was shocked, too! "

"I'm sure they and my wife will find a way to repay the lost $400 millions. Maybe when we sell Fortis we can use some of that. Let's give them time. Their intentions were always to help the Indian economy."

"And about that RSSB charitable hospital I sold to myself and demolished? They got a great price. The building needed to be replaced anyway. I gave them / me fair market value, and now the new Fortis Hospital is doing nice heart surgery work with the latest equipment for our paying customers, though it isn't a charitable hospital. Though if you look at our tanking performance at Fortis you might think it was a charitable hospital! "

Dungeness, if any of this transpires
Would your relationship to Baba Ji change?
Would your feelings towards him change?
Would your meditation practice and devotion to Him within change at all?
Should it?

Dungeness, first become familiar with the morals prescribed by RSSB, and the claims made of the masters omniscience, then get back to me.


Would your meditation practice and devotion to Him within change at all?

No, I hope not. Frankly, though I tend to idealize GSD and
ritualize the Path. So, I'm grateful for those who make me
aware of it.

Hi Dungeness:

You wrote:

"No, I hope not. Frankly, though I tend to idealize GSD and
ritualize the Path. So, I'm grateful for those who make me
aware of it."


Beautiful.

"Frankly, though I tend to idealize GSD and ritualize the Path."

Why would anyone pretend that your opinion means anything at this point?

A man sells dirty meds to kids but he's ideal? He claims omniscience and ridership over the world but he can't stop chasing money or notice that the people he works with are corrupt?

When I call people liars, this is why. You cannot be part of RSSB and not be a liar. Lying to yourself is a necessary part of worshipping an obviously corrupt man simply because his family cult got popular and you stumbled upon one of its books.

*RULERSHIP

Jesse
Do you mean to say Maharaj Ji was wrong to appoint him as successor.No,not at all.
This is kaliyuga. Disciples want to judge their masters.
Should Maharaj Ji have also noticed before bestowing meditation to you that you would stand against successor and his dera?But saints are kind and they bestow initiation to the marked souls. You cry or enjoy now.It is upto you.

Jesse
read 'bestowing initiation' at place of meditation.

Hi Dharam
You wrote
"Jesse
Do you mean to say Maharaj Ji was wrong to appoint him as successor.No,not at all.
This is kaliyuga. Disciples want to judge their masters."

It seems to me this is quite an irrational statement, but common in that sect of believers who hold to blind faith and superstition. It is a very common way of thinking but I would argue it is really lazy and irresponsible thinking. And leads to crime.

Was Jesus wrong when he told Paul to form the church?

Is all of catholicism wrong when a priest is appointed?

Yet despite the beauty of the teachings, much bloodshed, rape and thievery has taken place in the protective cover of darkness of the church precisely because of this kind of thinking. People were taught not to question, when questioning is actually the very foundation of free will, and choice is the very basis for love.

There is no love when people act out of fear, peer pressure, or desire for personal gain, including the gain of an afterlife.

What Dharam is presenting is precisely what all the saints decry as superstition and priest craft.

Where you find criminals who have engaged in their crimes year after year, with such crimes growing wider and greater, damaging more and more people's lives you find these criminals often surrounded by sycophants who believe they can do no wrong. And whose careers are based upon enabling such criminals.

Sawan famously said, "You may look anywhere for another path. I'm only here because this was the best path I could find. If you find a better one please come back and tell me so that I also may benefit."

Sawan's divinity showed itself in His putting free will, our ability to make a personal evaluation, and Truth above his own person.

Dharam, you are making the loudest possible advertisement to leave RSSB at the earliest possible moment.

Splenc
I am not asking you to leave the path ,rather I am asking yiu to stick to it.You people have come to no path from a path because there is no better and simpler path of spirtuality than Surat Shabad Yoga.That is why Great Master challenged," If you find a better path,please come back and tell me."

Hi Dharam
The path of Nam is the perfect and eternal path. But it can't be codified into an organization. That's a danger.

Worship of the Spirit is the real worship of God. That is the ultimate truth. And that is the value of the Master and the teachings, not to gain worldly wealth..

To grow spiritual wealth. To sharpen our capacity to understand truth, not dull it.

That is completely separate from superstition and blind faith, and even attachment and love to the wrong people.

But until we reach His level within, we must do three things, which Maharaji Himself teaches us.

1. Struggle to improve our practice.
2.live the vows.
3. Keep good company.

We must make our own decisions in this regard.

So we must also make a judgement about our teacher even though we are not adequately equipped to do so. We must have faith that if God exists he is within, and if we submit to his will, he will help us do our job and see truth for ourselves.

Dharam, I have not left the path at all.

If your meditation tells you Baba Ji is innocent, then you can and should work to bring forth facts that will help us all to see what you see.

That's not argumentation. That's research and factual evidence.

If you know this to be true you carry upon your shoulders a great responsibility to help bring forth facts.

And a great Seva.

Let Baba Ji help you fulfill your role.

Just as Maharaji is helping me to do so.

splence
I am really glad to know that you are practicing path to which Maharaj Ji initiated to you.It is really great. I was also bestowed initiation by Maharaj Ji.
My humble suggestion is that you should not criticise His successor and RSSB,i.e, His dera.You may or may not seek guidance from Present Master.
That is upto you.
Warm Regards.

Hi Dharam
Thanks for your advice.
I'm not actually criticising Baba Ji. I can't know all the facts.

But I can't deny the facts that have come to light.

I don't believe in a perfection that I must accept blindly. These facts of wrong doing bring this point to light.

We should participate in the love of truth, not emotion, not tradition, not just truths that are easy and make us feel happy, or give us status in the Sangat.

Love of truth shines forth when we stand up for the very facts that are breaking our heart because we know they are the truth. However costly.

You will have to give up the Baba Ji of tradition, to find the real living Baba Ji.

So I'm looking forward to read what new facts you can bring to light, Dharam.

Brian's class in Truth does in fact have homework assignments.

See inside you how truthful you are.....

All can say about others but no one have potential to listen even single word against self

True Human

Is its precisely because our daily meditation is stripping away our own foolish notions and pleasant delusions to reveal the true pleasure, Shabd, and our true Master in resplendent glory, that we believe firmly this approach should be applied outside of meditation as well.

Maharaji taught this

It is the mark of an adult to give up a favorite opinion when facts prove otherwise.

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