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September 09, 2018

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I have been reading all the comments since last few weeks. When we think passionately, we normally overlook the facts. Facts are facts, whether we like them or not.
If a corrupt person buys/do something in his wife /relative /servant name instead of his own , that doesn't absolve him. If Babaji is running a company in his wife's name, or his son is a major shareholder in it. Does it make him immune to the scandal?
He hasn't cut off relations with his family . He knew everything that was going on between his and Singh brothers companies.
Secondly, the amount of money given by Singh brothers was due to their faith in him, not his family.
Third, He has complete control on the minds of all the characters in the saga. They couldn't say no to anything he wanted to do. Whether it was Sunil, Singh brothers, Shannan,Gurkeerat, Gurpreet or anyone else.
It was either his money which he got back from Singh brothers OR they bribed him to become the next heir to him.
He asks people to live a simple life and not run after money or worldly pleasures. But acted like all those common people, to whom he is GIHF. He kept running after money. He didn't get satisfied with 10crores,100 crores. He wanted more and more zeros added to his money.
The type of lifestyle his family living and keeping up doesn't match with his teachings. It's all about money, Baby.
No need for satsangis to loose sleep over all this .its all karmas. We all have to pay for what we do.

Hi Tucson
Three effects, at least, I would guess.

1. Those truly in love with Baba Ji will feel an even closer bond. If He needs their help, they will want to be there for Him. They won't care that He is imperfect, even a sinner. They will want to help in any way, especially if He is in trouble. For them, He is their light. If they receive nothing, it matters not at all. They are there for love, not salvation. If any harm has come from His actions, they will marshall their own personal resources to cover the debts.

They can acknowledge the facts without any fear, because they don't wish to harm anyone. They know and honor true Love, and see God in everyone.

Because the world has little to do with their love, they fear nothing, except that innocent people in need may have paid a price. They will give their own lives to pay the debt, and happily .

They don't have blind faith and don't pretend to know or understand Gurindar Singh, and whether he is God or not has no bearing. They aren't there for the benefits. That love cannot be bound in suoerstition. They won't care that there beliefs are wrong because they don't carry a lot of 'belief'. They live in actual Love.

2. Those doubtful of His status as GIHF, will find evidence to support their doubts. These are two effects.


2.a. The person grounded in material fact. They will reject Baba Ji as a legitimate teacher and proclaim him a fake and a thief. This will include many, if not most seekers, because they are supposed to investigate and weigh their request for initiation. Only those who can't help but ask will remain.

2.b. Those whose connection to Baba Ji is only emotional, only an ardent fan, an initiate, with little actual connection. These will feel threatened and defend him (actually defend their religion) and try to harm the character of the messenger to defend their own sense of perfection, their religion, their superstition, and they will wield the traditional threats of that superstition.


I've passed through all three of these and find myself in the first camp.

Each of us week have a different reaction.

And my own may continue to evolve.

@ tucson

The village Sangat or the uneducated multitudes that constitute the majority of RSSB's following in India have no clue of these happenings. The Westerners ( Charan's disciples ) have thinned out and are down to a handful after the shift in the teachings. The newer Westerners who have embraced the Oneness philosophy ( Sant Mat 2.0 ) are keen to observe the developments and aren't too happy with Gurinder, that's what I've been told. The Chinese are being given some modern-Mat in Mandarin and are in a completely different space altogether. Haynes and UK is unaffected, they think it is some family theatrics happening too far away. The lower middle-class Indian followers are defending Gurinder vociferously. The upper middle-class believers are on the fence. The general mood in the Dera is that of hatred towards the Singh Brothers. The thinkers are few and far between, and then we have these revelations that have been read by the educated public at large. It's too soon for any collective dissent, though I do have news of some Dera residents being deeply disturbed. GSD's friends have been told to stay quiet.

Unfortunately, the Sangat from the impoverished factions don't have access corporate news. The local television channels tend to focus on the country news like land grabbing incidents and inter-Dera politics.

Dear Spence,

Your love & faith in Huzur seem to be deep-rooted. My question to you then is, do you think he would ever appoint a successor who would be unworthy and incapable of carrying out his work? (“his” in this case refers to both Babaji and Huzur ji).

Instead of focusing on the dark, ugly, messy design on the reverse side of the carpet, perhaps you can take a step back and focus on the other side where you will find a beautiful and majestic pattern instead. If this is difficult to do, then why don’t you just follow the advice given to you by Maharaji: “Yes, Proceed”.

Do you think he would have asked you to proceed if he knew that this was all a sham?

What will you gain from all this analysis when you yourself mentioned in another post that it does not matter who you place your love and devotion in, be it Babaji, Maharaji, Jesus or God, at the end the love you share with the divine is entirely transferable. (that was a very beautiful post).

Just persist with your meditation with love and think of Huzur or God and imagine that divine light penetrating through every pore of your physical, mental and spiritual being.

Hi Best
Your summary on one level appears angry. But on another level, it's just the truth. That's what makes it hard to read. You are applying basic ethics to the events, and this is what you get.

Hi Vicky!
Yes in some ways I'm just doing my duty. But in another way I'm trying to apologize to Brian for all the crap I gave him. Fact is, he was right. All along.

@ Spence : I left a comment for you on the Buxani post. It got submerged I guess ... :)

Spence Tepper
My views are clear about the whole affair. Actually I have been going to Beas since my birth. And I always try to compare reigns of current and previous gurus. There is a marked difference in approach.
Just to give an example, whenever there used to be elections in Punjab or INDIA, they used to publically announce that Sangat is free to vote for anyone they feel like. But in 2017 elections, the current guru had a program at Jalalabad where he gave Darshan to the whole sangat along with Sukhbir Singh badal and Bikramjeet Singh majithia walking along side him. What a letdown. They openly supported the ruling party of that time. Can it be justified?


Earlier there was rule that there should be distance of 10 kilometers at least between two satsang Ghars, but now, there are many which are within 2 kilometers from each other. You just write a letter to Dera that you want to donate some land to them, they will quickly take that land in their control and with help of sewadars, it will quickly become their possession. It's just a land grab thing. A race to acquire as much as possible.

There are so many things that happen in a routine manner. No one raises any voice. It's just a cult, where you have to obey each and everything. No need to see, speak or tell.

Hi Vicky
You asked some great questions

"My question to you then is, do you think he would ever appoint a successor who would be unworthy and incapable of carrying out his work? (“his” in this case refers to both Babaji and Huzur ji)."

I think He would never knowingly appoint someone who was unethical and broke their vow to live a clean moral life.

But it has happened.
So now we must accept the verified facts before us.

Because, actually, Sant Mat isn't about the person or the role. Maharaji said that God is a power not a personality.

Can a perfect Master make a mistake?

Yes, they make them all the time. They live as human beings.

They are realized souls, connected to the Spirit. The Spirit is the true Master. But living here they must function within a limited mind, however much enlarged through spiritual practice.

Why? Because we have to. Whatever limits we must live with, so must they.

So not only can they make mistakes, they do so all the time.

Can they fall?

Yes. They can fall. That is what has happened. RSSB was never meant to last forever.

They can succumb to temptation. They can be very advanced and fall.

So then they are no longer perfect Masters.

And the path is carried on elsewhere.

We don't like to think that so we make myths to put our own fears at ease.

But the only thing that can really assuage our fear is the Spirit.

@ Best : Thank you for the first hand account of Gurinder's political leanings. The Badals are close to Beas. Glad they lost to Amarinder. Do you have any thoughts on elections 2019, does RSSB favour the ruling BJP ?

I may be wrong but I believe there will be complications. Rumors suggest that Shivinder Singh is Pro-Congress. So, 2019 in Punjab will be interesting. I wonder if RSSB openly asked initiates in India to vote one way or the other in 2017.

Bombay Blonde
It's very difficult to say how close Dera is to ruling dispensation. All I can say that when you have something to hide, you always try to get closer to the ruling party. They have supporters in all political parties. The big Satsang Ghar land at mohali was allotted by Parkash Singh Badal government. Bikram Singh majithia, who is brother-in-law of Sukhbir Singh badal has been married in grewal family of Maharaj charan singhji. Many congress leaders are ardent followers of the Dera. Even many big congress leaders have been frequent visitors.
The current guru met RSS chief, Mohan Bhagwat at Malout 2 years back. This organization has good say in BJP. Which is the ruling party at centre.
But having said all this, politicians are not permanent friends or enemies of anyone, they act according to their own interests. Ram rahim and Asa Ram were BJP supporters, but when time came, they were dropped like hot potatoes. It will all come down to how much evidence comes out after investigations. Only then we will come to know about the whole episode.

@Bombay Blonde
@Best

- I know from a friend, whose father was a campaign manager for Punjab Congress, that political parties, including SAD and Congress, treat the various Deras as huge monolithic votebanks. Famous is Ram Rahim and RSSB. That is possible only if the Guru is willing to exert influence, directly or through sevadars, on his devotees to vote one way or the other. Does anyone know if the sevadars were asked to indirectly convey GSD’s preference in the elections? I have first hand information that one Sant Mat guru, who has large number of followers in the Chandigarh area, had asked his followers to vote for BJP’s Kirron Kher and was instrumental in her winning the Parliamentary elections. Isn’t this kind of influence unethical? Why are Godmen and Spiritual leaders flirting with politics? Isn’t a PLM’s job solely to take the soul to Sach Khand? Didn’t Baba Sawan Singh talk about how initiates should be focused about getting to the Sach Khand and not bother about politics? Isn’t running of this world in the Kal’s domain? Why do PLMs have to delve in the Kal’s domain unless some of the Gurus are not PLMs and are from the Kal itself? From the Sant Mat perspective, as outlined in Anurag Sagar and as told by Baba Sawan Singh, it is rare to find PLMs in this world. Kal sends a ton of Negative Masters for every PLM that in there on this physical plane. Based on that, a genuine seeker, need to be very very skeptical about the Spiritual Leaders. For starts, don’t rely on other people’s so called experiences. Test everything out for yourself.
- The existence of a monolithic vote bank that can be easily controlled would explain why Rahul Gandhi, Amarinder, Sukhbir and Majeethia were trying to buy influence in RSSB.
- Why are VIPs treated in a special manner in RSSB? Why are Rahul Gandhis and Sukhbir Badals given VIP treatment? Isn’t a spiritual leader supposed to be disconnected from the material and treat everyone alike? Aren’t there stories of some Sikh Gurus treating Mughal emperor as ordinary seeker? What was the purpose of entertaining these politicians? Was GSD trying to buy political influence and get huge donations? Shouldn’t this be a red flag for a seeker?
- RSS seems to have made a lot of inroads in Punjab. RSS influences various Deras including RSSB. RSS also influences SAD and SGPC now through Badals.
- What was the purpose of a spiritual leader, a “PLM” at that, meeting Mohan Bhagwat, RSS head with deep communal idealogy? What could they have discussed? Surely, Mohan Bhagwat was not trying to achieve Sach Khand. For that he could have gone as an ordinary seeker and sought initiation. RSS was responsible for assassination of Mahatma Gandhi and more recently for Hindu Muslim rioting and lynching of Muslims. Shouldn’t a meeting between RSSB (RSS + B 😊) head and RSS be a red flag for seekers? https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/RSS-chief-Bhagwat-meets-Radhasoami-sect-head/articleshow/35801533.cms & https://sikhsiyasat.net/2014/05/31/rss-streching-its-wings-in-punjab-dera-radha-soami-beas-head-meets-mohan-bhagwat/
- VHP, a sister organization of RSS, had quoted Sathya Sai Baba, a very powerful godman of India, as saying that India will be a Hindu nation by 2020 and the whole world will be Hindu by 2030. Mohan Bhagwat, current RSS head, was present when the RSS and VHP leaders met Sathya Sai. RSS and VHP are driving inspiration from this message from Sathya Sai Baba to try to achieve this goal. Ashok Singhal, the then VHP head, is quoted as saying
“I was at the Sai Baba Ashram where Sai Baba told me by 2020 the entire country will be Hindu and 2030 the entire world will be Hindu. I feel that revolution has started,” he said at a function here attended by External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and other RSS functionaries.
https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/by-2020-india-will-be-hindu-nation-world-by-2030-ashok-singhal/
- Knowing Mohan Bhagwat’s Hindutva agenda, Why is GSD meeting Mohan Bhagwat frequently? Red Flag?
- Why does a PLM get born in every generation of this Grewal/Dhillon family? What special penances did this family do in order to achieve that? To avoid this accusation, GSD better appoint someone from outside the family for a change – perhaps under a deal in which the PLM ship can be restored back to the family at the end of the term. Red Flag?
- Majeethia – For a spiritual family, in which a PLM is pretty much born in every generation – a very rare occurrence so this must be the greatest spiritual family ever, it is mind boggling to understand how someone from this family could be married to a thug (especially a political thug) like Majithia (Majeethia). My understanding is that marriages in such families are arranged and usually not a result of falling in love. What was the spiritual family trying to achieve by forging relationship with an out and out politically corrupt family? Also if it was indeed a love marriage and not an arranged marriage, why would anyone fall in love with an uncouth character like Majithia (who is on record for using the choicest Punjabi curses in the Punjab Assembly). It is a common knowledge, although not proven – just like everything in India - because of strong political influence, that Majithia is a kingpin of the drug trade in Punjab. Some even accuse him of spoiling an entire generation by supplying drugs. This itself would have been a big enough red flag to run away from RSSB.
- I have high regards for Baba Sawan Singh but the current RSSB has a lot of red flags (some of them have been mentioned above and some have been discussed in this forum including Religare, etc.). So, I have stayed away from RSSB but would love to hear the perspective of some who may have insider knowledge. There are way too many unanswered questions.

FYI -
RSS stands for Rashstriya Swatamsevak Sangh (An Indian right-wing, Hindu nationalist paramility volunteer organization with a Hindutva agenda).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashtriya_Swayamsevak_Sangh

I wonder if RSSB is going to stand for Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh in Beas in the future instead of Radha Soami Satsang Beas?

@ AJ : Thank you for this detailed comment, especially the part about Majeethia. An eye opener, really. Plenty of arranged marriages in RSSB circles. They need to secure the next generation of believing dimwits, no one else will sign up. Well, plenty of red flags as you correctly pointed out, I've lost count of them.

( Majeethia. Unbelievable. Udta Punjab. )

To Spence.
My analysis of your psychic experiences with GSD
You foresaw and have a or had karmic destiny patterns and adjustments to make with his soul and your soul the timing was mutual in your growth patterns ..the information you gave of this dies not clarify what you are to know from the experience..visions of him seen around you by others or where this is all to lead if anywhere other than you are or were sharing some soul time in time with him in that moment.
It does not indicate his role in your life and or for how long ...when if ever he stays with you or moves on.
I would suggest you continue to move forward with your personal growth and not fixate on these impressions any longer.
Allow the pattern to continue to flow onward..do not allow any attachment to the experience observe and move forward

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